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the TITANS & early Greek Mythology

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Crystal Thielkien
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« Reply #345 on: November 14, 2008, 01:15:46 pm »

Titans

Rich

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   posted 01-30-2006 06:43 PM                       
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Iapetus 1. Father, either by Clymene 1 or Asia 2, of Menoetius 1, Atlas, Prometheus 1, Epimetheus, and Hesperus 2 [Apd.1.1.3, 1.2.3; Dio.4.27.1; Hes.The.134, 506ff.; Hom.Il.8.479ff.].


Prometheus is supposedly the father of Deucalion. This is a controversial identification... but it is what it is.

This implies that Atlas and Prometheus are 1 generation before the flood of Deucalion. There is the story of how Hercules rescues Prometheus from the Caucusus (in Colchis). It is also sometimes told that Prometheus waited there for 200 years until Hercules rescues him. This is the wrong Hercules. The Hercules that lives 1 generation before the flood of Deucalion is the Cretan Hercules... of the Idaea Dactyli - 1457-1438BC for Atlas.

[ 01-30-2006, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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« Reply #346 on: November 14, 2008, 01:16:03 pm »

Rich

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One of the Daughters of Altas, Maera 3, marries Tagytes 2 generations later.
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« Reply #347 on: November 14, 2008, 01:16:59 pm »

Titans contact with real people before Deucalion

Rich

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This Apollo is 2 generations before the flood of Deucalion. Possibly this is Chrysaor.

"Coroebus 1. It is said that Psamathe 2, the daughter of King Crotopus of Argos, bore a son Linus 1 to Apollo, but fearing her father, she exposed the child which was found and killed by sheepdogs. For this reason, they say, Apollo sent Poine (Vengeance) to punish the Argives, by snatching children from their mothers. Coroebus 1, then, slew Vengeance, causing a second punishment to fall upon the city that was devastated by plague. When this happened Coroebus 1 travelled voluntarily to Delphi in order to be punished for his having slain Vengeance. At Delphi the Pythian priestess ordered him to take a tripod from the shrine and carry it until it fell from his hands, and then build, in that very place, a temple of Apollo. Coroebus 1 did as the Pythia told him and the tripod fell at Mount Gerania, where Coroebus 1 dwelt in the village Little Tripods. At his death Coroebus 1 was buried in Megara [Pau.1.43.7-8]."
...
"Linus 3, son of Apollo and Psamathe 2 (daughter of King Crotopus of Argos), was exposed at birth by his mother and subsequently destroyed by the sheep-dogs of Crotopus. Because of the death of his son, Apollo sent Poine (Vengeance) to punish the Argives [Pau.1.43.7; Stat.Theb.570ff.]."

[ 05-09-2006, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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« Reply #348 on: November 14, 2008, 01:17:21 pm »

Rich

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Note: Ceuthonymus has been suggested as Iapetos, instead of the normal Poseidon identification.

http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Keuthonymos.html

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« Reply #349 on: November 14, 2008, 01:17:50 pm »

Rich

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Athens Reference:

Hermes and Ares aroud the Time-frame of Cranaus / Flood of Deucalion:
"Aglaurus 2 (Agraulus 2). Daughter of Cecrops 1 & Aglaurus 1. By Ares she had Alcippe 1, and by Hermes she became mother of Ceryx. Aglaurus 2 was killed either by the serpent coiled about the babe Erichthonius 2 or was driven mad by the anger of Athena and threw herself from the acropolis; others say she threw herself into the sea, or that she was turned by Hermes into a black stone [see also Athens and Envy] [Apd.3.14.2, 3.14.6; Eur.Ion.20ff.; Hdt.8.53; Hyg.Fab.166.; Ov.Met.2.784ff.; Pau.1.38.3]."


Unknown:
"Aex. Aex is one of the nurses of Zeus. She is known for her beautiful body but also for having a most horrible face. According to some Aex was daughter of Helius, but others have said she was daughter of Olenus 1, son of Hephaestus. Aex had by Pan a son Aegipan 1, who was nourished together with Zeus. Aegipan 1 and Hermes recovered Zeus' sinews which Typhon had severed [Hyg.Ast.2.13]."

[ 05-09-2006, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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« Reply #350 on: November 14, 2008, 01:18:01 pm »

Rich

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More Study needed:
"Argus 5 called the Peloponnesus, where he regined, after himself Argos. He was son of Zeus and Niobe 1, daughter of Phoroneus. Argus 5 had children by Evadne 1, daughter of the river god Strymon 1: Ecbasus, Piras 1, Epidaurus, Criasus 1, Phorbas 1, and Tiryns. And by Ismene 1, daughter of the river god Asopus, he became the father of Argus 1 [Apd.2.1.1-3; Pau.2.16.1, .2.25.8, 2.26.2]."
...
"Callirrhoe 5. Wife of Piras 1, son of King Argus 5 of Argos, son of Zeus and Niobe 1 [Hyg.Fab.145]."

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« Reply #351 on: November 14, 2008, 01:18:23 pm »

Rich

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Ancient Argos:

Criasus 1. Son of the Peloponnesian king Argus 5, son of Zeus, and of Evadne 1, daughter of the river god Strymon 1. Some say that Criasus 1 succeeded his father on the throne [see also Argos] [Apd.2.1.2].

Crotopus. King in Argolis [see also Argos]. Crotopus was son of Agenor 12, son of Triopas 1, son of Phorbas 1, son of Argus 5, son of Zeus and Niobe 1, daughter of Phoroneus, the first man. Crotopus had a son Sthenelas, and a daughter Psamathe 2 [Pau.2.16.1, 2.19.8].

Gelanor. This is the king of Argos against whom Danaus 1 sailed from Egypt. He surrendered the kingdom to Danaus 1. Gelanor was son of Sthenelas, son of Crotopus, son of Agenor 12, son of Triopas 1 [see also Argos and DANAIDS] [Apd.2.1.4; Pau.2.16.1].

Iasus 3. King of Argos and father of Io. Iasus 3 was son either of Argus 1 and Ismene 1, or of Triopas 1 [Apd.2.1.3; Pau.2.16.1].


Lyrcus 1. Bastard son of Abas 2, son of Lynceus 2 and Hypermnestra 1 (one of the DANAIDS), after whom the place Lyrcea, between Argos and Orneae, was called [Pau.2.25.5].

Lyrcus 2. Son of Phoroneus, his mother being either Teledice or Cinna or Cerdo. Lyrcus 2 was sent by the father of Io to search for her. After having covered a great deal of land and sea without finding the girl, he finally renounced the quest but, being too afraid of Inachus to return to Argos, he went instead to Caunus in Lycia (Asia Minor) where he married the king's daughter, either Hilebia (daughter of Aegialus) or Molpadia 2 (daughter of Staphylus 1, son of Ariadne); by one of them he had a son Basilus [Apd.2.1.1; Hyg.Fab.145; Parth.1.1, 1.3, 1.6; Pau.2.21.1].

Messene. This is the woman after whom Messenia was named. She was daughter of Triopas 1, king of Argos, and wife of Polycaon 1, the first ruler of Messenia [Pau.4.1.1].

Peranthus 2. Father of Triopas 1, king of Argos [Hyg.Fab.124].

Phorbas 1. King of Argos after his father Argus 5 (son of Zeus and Niobe 1). His mother was Evadne 1, daughter of Strymon 1 (one of the RIVER GODS). Phorbas 1 is father of Triopas 1, also king of Argos [Apd.2.1.1-2; Pau.2.16.1].

Piras 1 (Peranthus 1, Piranthus, Peirasus 1). Son of King Argus 5 of Argos and Evadne 1, daughter of Strymon 1 (one of the RIVER GODS). Piras 1's wife was Callirrhoe 5 [Apd.2.1.2; Hyg.Fab.145; Pau.2.16

Sphyrus. Son of Machaon and founder of a sanctuary of Asclepius (his grandfather) at Argos [Pau.2.23.4].

Sthenelas. Son of Crotopus and father of Gelanor, the man who lost the kingdom of Argos to Danaus 1, father of the DANAIDS [Pau.2.16.1].

Teleus. A man from Argos, father of Clymenus 9 [Parth.13.1].

Tiryns. Son of Argus 5 [see kingdom of Argos] and Evadne 1, daughter of Strymon 1(one of the RIVER GODS). After him the city Tiryns was called [Apd.2.1.1-2; Pau.2.25.8].

Triopas 1 (Triops). King of Argos. He was son either of Phorbas 1 (his predecessor on the throne), or of Peranthus 2, otherwise unknown. His children were: Iasus 3, Agenor 12, Pelasgus 2, and Messene [Hyg.Fab.124; Pau.2.16.1, 2.22.1, 4.1.1].

[ 05-09-2006, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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« Reply #352 on: November 14, 2008, 01:18:33 pm »

 
Rich

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   posted 05-09-2006 09:36 PM                       
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Actaeus is the king of Athens before Cecrops:

http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Tartaros.html
"The four famous Telkhines, Aktaios, Megalesios, Ormenos and Lykos, whom Bacchylides calls the children of Nemesis and Tartaros [or of Nemesis, daughter of Tartaros]." - Greek Lyric IV Bacchylides, Frag 52 (from Tzetzes on Theogony)
...
"From Terra [Gaia] and Tartarus [were born]: Gigantes...Typhon, Iapetus." - Hyginus, Preface"

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« Reply #353 on: November 14, 2008, 01:18:48 pm »

Rich

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IO is sometimes called the daughter of Phoroneus. I am unconvinced. I think there are 2 or 3 IO's. One of them has a surname:
"Phoronis", hence leading to the idea that she is the daughter of Phoroneus.

Just like Urania is a muse, apparently unrelate to Uranus, maybe there is a Phoronis, unrelated to Phoroneus? Uncertain.

Newton says Phegeus is also a son of Phoroneus... this doesn't make much sense to me, just like Lyrcus.

*************************

"Lyrcus 2. Son of Phoroneus, his mother being either Teledice or Cinna or Cerdo. Lyrcus 2 was sent by the father of Io to search for her. After having covered a great deal of land and sea without finding the girl, he finally renounced the quest but, being too afraid of Inachus to return to Argos, he went instead to Caunus in Lycia (Asia Minor) where he married the king's daughter, either Hilebia (daughter of Aegialus) or Molpadia 2 (daughter of Staphylus 1, son of Ariadne); by one of them he had a son Basilus [Apd.2.1.1; Hyg.Fab.145; Parth.1.1, 1.3, 1.6; Pau.2.21.1]."

*************************
Compare to:
http://www.theoi.com//Nymphe/NympheByblis.html
Byblis was a Hamadryad Nymphe
....
"Karian cities of Kaunos and of Byblis"

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« Reply #354 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:03 pm »

Rich

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Orus is an egyptian, contemporary with Cecrops. These stories make Cecrops contemporary with Athena, Poseidon, and Hermes.

"Dispute with Athena (I)
Yet another disagreement concerning the patronage of lands and cities arised between Poseidon and Athena in relation to Troezen. But Zeus commanded them to hold this city in common, and so they did. This dispute took place during the reign of King Althepus, himself son of Poseidon and Leis, the daughter of Orus 1, predecessor of Althepus.

Dispute with Athena (II)
Poseidon, they say, was the first who came to Attica; and with a blow of his trident on the Acropolis, he produced a sea or, as some say, just a well of sea-water that could be seen in the Erechtheum on the Acropolis not far from the outline of the trident on the rock. These were the evidences in support of Poseidon's claim to the land. But Athena, coming after him, planted an olive tree and claimed the land; and since they fought for the possession of the country, Zeus parted them and appointed the OLYMPIANS as arbiters, who adjudged the city to Athena, because King Cecrops 1 witnessed that she had been the first to plant the olive tree. Athena called the city Athens after herself, but Poseidon, angry at the verdict flooded Attica. However, some say that it was Zeus who ajudged Athens to Athena, and that Poseidon never flooded the country because Hermes forbade him to do so. In any case, in the shrine of Erechtheus there remained preserved a long time an olive tree and a pool of salt water which had been set there by Athena and Poseidon as tokens when they contended for the city. "
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« Reply #355 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:26 pm »

Rich

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Amymone being a Danaid, daughter of Danaus, would mean this takes place at the same time as well. If that is true... then there might be a 3rd Inachus. Maybe this one is the father of IO3.

What does Inachus mean? My best guess is: Bachus, son of Ino, or Dionysus (Ino-chus). I've never really liked having him before Phoroneus, the first man. Then again... could just be a river-god like strymon. (Strymon the man lives 1 generation after Phoroneus)

****************************
"Dispute with Hera
A similar dispute, though this time for the patronage of Argos, involved Poseidon and Hera. A tribunal of three RIVER GODS: Inachus, Cephisus, and Asterion 2, decided on this occasion that Argolis would belong to Hera and not to Poseidon. Disappointed with this judgement, the god made their waters disappear, and that is why they never provide any water except after rain, their streams being dry during the summer. But since little and much must compensate each other, Poseidon inundated many districts in Argolis because of the decisions of the RIVER GODS. Lerna is however, excepted; for it was here that Amymone 1 (one of the DANAIDS) yielded to Poseidon on condition that she might have water, and the god, being in love with her, revealed to her the springs at Lerna. "

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« Reply #356 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:43 pm »

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Rich, I really think you will be confused in who was who in history, when it comes to the hero made up Gods.People named their kids after them such as in twins. The frist twin was consider a son of a hero God,even though they really were the women`s husband kids.:)and when the women dream of a god the child she had would be of the god.
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« Reply #357 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:58 pm »

Rich

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Who were the Greek Gods? When did they live? One theory is that they were real people, who survived the flood of Deucalion, of came before it.

IF this theory holds water, then these gods had to interact with real people. If you can date when these people lived, then you can date and locate the gods.

*****************
If the gods came before Phoroneus, then there are no human names to connect the dots with (so this theory would be impossible to prove).
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« Reply #358 on: November 14, 2008, 01:20:11 pm »

Rich

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3 newton quotes:
"Doxius the son of Cœlus teaching them to do it"

"Lesbos lay waste and desolate 'till Xanthus sailed thither with a Colony"

"Inachus is called the son of Oceanus"

******************
Doxius comes from Pliny Book 7, who reads this from Aulis Gellius. Coelus has been called Uranus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelus
Saturn is generally thought to be the son of Uranus, but Plato disputes this, and says Oceanus is the son of Uranus, and Saturn is the son of Oceanus (Orphic Mythology).


Xanthus appears to be the name of Scamander, according to Homer. Scamander has been called, son of Oceanus (because he is a river god). Son of Zeus, and a Cretan Prince, according to Isidore of Seville.

Inachus is called son of Oceanus(because he is a river). None of these river gods live at the same time, or interact with each other. I'd beleive Zeus over Oceanus. In fact, I believe the earliest Strymon lived BEFORE Oceanus. This is a theory though.

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« Reply #359 on: November 14, 2008, 01:21:03 pm »

Rich

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This is the Ares who sleeps with Aglaurus, daughter of Cecrops.

"Poseidon's son Halirrhothius, and the place was called the Hill of Ares, 1268 years, when Cr[ana]os was king of Athens" -- Tatian

*********************
"and in the time of Triopas were Prometheus, and Epimetheus, and Arias, and Cecrops of double nature, and Io;"

If you go with Prometheus, father of Deucalion, then Prometheus is contemporary with Cecrops 2. Triopas is before these. Uncertain who Arias is.

*********************
Eleusinus, son of Ogygus, founds Eleusis" --Newton

"and this Temple, and that which Eurydice erected to her daughter Danae, by the name of Juno Argiva" -- Newton

Looks like there is a Hera in the days of Erectheus. (Danae is mother of Perseus)

[ 05-12-2006, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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