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the TITANS & early Greek Mythology

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Author Topic: the TITANS & early Greek Mythology  (Read 16100 times)
Crystal Thielkien
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« Reply #330 on: November 13, 2008, 03:10:41 pm »

Carolyn Silver

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   posted 12-09-2006 04:12 AM                       
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Atlantean Research Journal, and Atlantis from 1950 cont.

The Head of Medusa, By Edgerton Sykes (Summary on lecture May 26th Caxton Hall)

Youngest of the Gorgons; her dispute with Athena, which resulted in her hair turning into snakes and her glance turning those into stone; and, finally, her death at the hands of Perseus, armed by the might and wit of Athena, on his way to rescue Andromeda, always appealed to Edgerton Sykes as being worthy to investigate even though the task of unraveling the myths around it is great.

The wars in the middle seas have gone on for centuries, and even a casual glance at Greek legends we see wars involving religions. "In my opinion, this dates back to a time when the descendants of the Atlantean refugees had populated the fertile Mediterranean Basin, and were defending themselves from the Indo-German and Semetic invaders." "We find traces of this dispute in the earliest stages of Greek Myth, with the revolt of the Titans and the Giants against the Olympian Gods, which must represent an early stage in the age long struggle between the followers of Sea Gods as represented by Poseidon and the followers of the Land Gods as represented by the Olympian pantheon, headed by Zeus and Athene. Later there was a period when the Sea Gods reigned in Athens, when Poseidon Erechtheus, the king with the half serpent totem, was worshipped as a god. The festival of the Panathec, depicting the battle of the Giants, dates from this time. Many of the Athenian rulers had serpentine totems, until the time when the Pelasgians, or men of the sea, were driven from the mainland by the early Greek invaders, perhaps

the Achae'ans. The interesting point here is that Poseidon first came into Athenian history as a breeder of horses, and everywhere he was worshipped horse racing was general. The Carthaginians, a later people, had horses on their coins, and built equestrian statues wherever they went. Poseidon was the reputed father of two horses, Pegasus by medusa, and Arion by Demeter: horse races in his honor were held in the Isthmus of Corinth." The Sea people have left no record of their side of the conflict, but it is clear the background of hatred and oppression is there from the beginning to the time of the accusation that Posiedon had seduced medusa in one of Athena's Temples, which appears to indicate the opening by medusa of a temple to Poseidon in an area sacred to Athene. The undercurrents show that when ever poseidon backed a hero the hero was attacked by Zeus, and vice versa which shows how long the hostilities historically lasted. The family tree of Medusa is very interesting:

Pontus, the Sea God, had a son Phorcys, who married Ceto. They had six daughters: The tree Graiae, Pephredo, Enyo, and Dino; and had three Gorgons, Stheno, Eurayle, and Medusa.

By Hecate, Phorcys, also had a daughter, Scylla. Her cousin Poseidon, was the father of Charybdis by Gea, of Polythemus by Thoosis, of Triton by Amphitrite the Nereid. Gea was also the mother of Typheus by Tartarus. Poseidon- 2 children with Medusa------- Pegasus and Chrysaor, who married Kalirrhoe and had two children, Geyron and Echidna. The first was killed by Hercules, while the second married Typheus, son of Gea, and had six children: Orthos, the Two-headed dog; the Theban Sphinx; the Chimeria; the Dog Cerberus; the Hydra or Echidna Lernaea; and the Nemean Lion; several of whom were killed by Hercules, as shown below. The point is they were all totems of poseidon and were attempted to be exterminated by Hercules and his followers as clans that were victims of war which were over run by Land Gods worshippers. Whether the war was religious, or economic by nature is unknown or the battle between matriarchy and patriarchy was the catalist. The battles Hercules has against these monsters is proof enough of Poseidon's memory was what Hercules was after to be destroyed. At the time of the Medusa episode hercules specialized in matriarchy clan attacks, and went after the 'sisterhoods' wherever he could find them whose members ranked as Nereids or Sea Nymphs. One of these was headed by the three gorgons, others by the Scylla, and the Charybdis. There was a male clan headed by Typheus

Who may have been in Greece, Scylla and Charybdis in Italy, the Graiae in Madeira, and the Gorgons in the Canaries or the Azores. Andromeda, who was rescued by Perseus was the daughter of an African Chief, and was either a hostage or a pupil of the Gorgons. Perseus himself has egyptian connections, which may explain his political interests in another African Princess. Perseus lands an attack on Graiae and his weapon was supposed to be 'one eye and one tooth' ( we do not know if it refers to a catamaran ram front on the boat). He murders many women, and moves on to the next Island of Gorgons, perhaps the Island which had once been Calypso's, for being the daughter of Atlas, she was also under the ban of the land gods. In regards to Medusa hair it is likened to squid or cuttle fish with two eyes resembling a football. "That this was the Totem of the Medusae is shown by the numerous representations found on Minoan pottery, Crete being one of the centers of the Sea Religion destroyed by Hercules, as mentioned above. The turn to stone was the venom that a poisonous octopus or some cuttle fish can do in paralyzing the human body to a point of not moving, coma, or death. Hypnosis has been suggested, but is to recent a comment to not point out the violent outcome to her gaze, more the animal freezes then is hypnotized by its own reaction. The Medusae Clan had an existence based on the finding of Paul LeCour in a temple of a stone drawing of a squid accompanied with the remains of a jelly fish, in a passage tumulus at Pornic in Brittany, and also discovered in a Basque tomb. One may suppose that in some rockey pool in a cave on the seashore, the Medusae kept their totem squids and jellyfish, and that it was through this secret entrance that Perseus made his way. "This view is confirmed by the use of a brightly polished shield or mirror, as even to this day the method of fishing for octopus or squid is, at night, with the aid of a bright light to dazzle them. The mirror could have been used in this manner by reflecting the light from the mouth of the cave onto the surface of the pool. Normally the squids and the jelly fish would be kept in a state of torpor by constant feeding, except when it was desired to sacrifice to them, in which case they would be left without food for a day or so." Perseus murdered Medusa then rescued Andromeda who was held hostage while the other Gorgon sisters pursued him and survived only to be killed later by Hercules. Perseus with his victory took the symbol of the Gorgons as his own totem. The possiblity that both Poseidon and Zeus may have at one time been matriarchal is not ruled out, since matriarchy was common in the ancient world before prolific male deities. The fact that most of the women were in charge of major temples and based on the diffusion of their temples were centers simaler to places of oracles like Sybils who advised sailors the weather, or to where to sail. Unfortunately, outside of the Periplus of Hanno very little information of what the mariners faith was or believed. The situation is worsened the fact that until Plato studied the whole of the middle seas and before the writing of Timaeus and Critias, greek philosophers abstained from vulgar sea people or their stories thus most of the records have dissipated. One of the best accounts is by Diodorus who refers to the Amazons and the Gorgons. The Amazons lived in the Island of Hesperia (or Hespridies) off the Western Coast, which was of great size, full of fruit trees of every kind, with multitudes of flocks and herds, but no grain. Their Queen was Myrina, having an army of 30,000 foot, and 3,000 horses, proceeded to attack the Atlanteans who dwelt in a prosperous country and possesed great cities. After capture of Cerne, which she put to the sword, the Atlanteans capitulated. After peace had been made Myrina built a new city to take the place of Cerne and gave it her name. She also built Cherronesus on the Peninsula in Lake Tritonis. The Atlanteans, however, were frequently being raided by the Gorgons, and asked myrina to help them to stop. She took three thousand women captive and killed after they tried to revolt and killed quite a few Amazons. The dead were buried in three mounds called Amazon Mounds. Diodorus concludes "But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, and in the end both they and the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Hercules, whilst Lake Tritonis vanished in a earthquake."

"In spite of what Diodorus says I am inclined to the opinion that by the time of Perseus, the

remants of this matriarchal Poseidon worshipping tribe, the Gorgons, living on the Islands in the

Western ocean, had sunk to the level of being a clan of priestesses of the Poseidon cult, much as

the Levites to the Israelites and the Magi to the Persians."

The attack of Perseus was a precursor to Hercules larger campaign, which was piracy with a backing. The Squid totem was in relation to the Hydra clan almost the same. As far as the size of Giant Squids the Ancients knew about it in reports of Pliny who in 77 A.D. in his 'Natural History' mentions them as making nightly raids from the sea on the curing stations on the shore for salted tuna, while Aelian, writing 160 years later, refers to one that used to crush the barrels of salted fish with its tentacles.

"The identification of the squid with the Kraken was, however, only effected in the Northern lattitudes, and the first referance I can trace is by Olaus Magnus in 1555, although the actual name is perhaps due to Paulinius, who wrote of a creature infesting the coast of Norway resembling Gesner's Heracleticon. He was followed by Eric Pontoppidian, Bishop of Bergan, whose Natural History, published in 1759, refers to the Kraken by name; while Denys de Montfort in his Natural History , published about 1790, gives a drawing of a gigantic cuttle fish grasping a ship in its tentacles. I am afraid that this drawing is some-what exaggerated, but his story that a captian who cut off an arm 25 feet long from one of these creatures which tried to drown a member of his crew is probably correct. One hundred and fifty years ago, one of these creatures was cast ashore in Denmark. It was 21 feet long with tentacles of 18 feet, making a total of nearly 40 feet. Berthelot, French Consul in Tenerife in 1861 saw one which had a body 16-18 feet long, while in 1873 one was encountered by fisherman off Newfoundland, which was reputed to be 74 feet in length."

Albatross Expedition, Island traces off Amazon Estuary, D. Nyheter of Stockholm

A series of deep sedimentation cores taken by the Albatross expedition at a point about 600 miles off the Amazon Estuary, have been under investigation by Dr. Boerje Kullenberg of the Gothenburg Marine Institute. Dr. Kullenberg reports that these samples, taken from twenty to thirty feet below the sedimentary surface, show traces of typical fresh water plants, of land river and lake mixed with sand.

Discoveries at Tabago, Pamela O'Reilly

Mr. Cambridge, Warden of Tabago, has an extensive and varied collection of both Carib and Arawak relics. Digging in the south east part of the Island, in about 10 feet of ground, the warden came upon a burial ground, which he states with some assurance contained at least five bodies. Innumerable stone axes, cooking utensils and some stone implements had been buried with them and indicate that these people possessed a certain degree of culture. The stone implements some were of granite, others of a hard green stone, and they were beautifully polished and sharpened which a few were grooved. There were hundreds of pottery pieces, as well as replicas of birds, squirrels, fish, bison and iguanas. It is interesting to note that the existence of the bison in the West Indies is unknown, therefore these people must have had contact with the mainland at one time or another. The bowls although fragments were fashioned in the shape of a Armadillo, or a turtle. Another bowl 2/3rds intact was in the shape of a square with well defined ridges running round the inside. Part of a water pitcher, with a spout remaining was one of the larger pieces. Faces of either gods or the natives with squat features and thick lips had also been fashioned. These were fashioned on the handles of bowls.

Spear heads, or a more clumsey kind than the stone implements mentioned above, and battle axes, some of great weight were indicative that it was Caribs rather than Arawaks who settled in Tabago. Generally assumed around the 8th century, as the age of the bones found at Plymouth (southwest of Tabago) has been put at 1,000 years.

(Webmaster note- the strange part is that in the 8th Century A.D. before Columbus commercial trade had long since been established between the America's and that there are some extinct forms of Bison that it may refer to?)

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« Reply #331 on: November 13, 2008, 03:11:45 pm »

 
Carolyn Silver

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1951

THE ISLAND OF THE SERPENT. By D. R. BENTHAM.


Many years ago The late Dr. Wallis Budge translated this story from the hieratic script of a papyrus roll.

Since then has received the attention of many commentators but, never the

less the Atlantean implications of the ‘narrative appear to have

passed unnoticed,

"I will now speak and give a description of the things that

happened to me when I was. journeying to the copper mines of

the King I went down into the sea in a ship 150 Cubits in

length and 40 Cubits broad, manned by 150 of the best sailors in

Egypt A storm overtook us while at sea and a wave 8

Cubits high struck the ship. I seized a plank driven towards me,

and (eventually) the waves cast me up on an island.

"Here-after having rested and eaten my fill, I was preparing a burnt offering for the gods,

when I heard a sound as of thunder, which I thought to have been caused by a wave of the sea,

and the trees rocked and the earth quaked. The sounds were caused by a great serpent, which came towards me.

It was 80 Cubit. in length, with a head more than 2 Cubits in size.

Its body was covered with scales of pure gold and the ridges ever the the eyes were of pure lapis lazuli.

It coiled its length up before me and said : ‘Who hath brought’ thee hither, Oh miserable one,

Who hath' brought the hither? If thou dust not immediately declare unto me who hath brought thee unto this island.

I will cause thee to be burnt with fire and thou wilt become a thing which is invisible.....

Then the serpent took me in its mouth and carried me of to the place when it was wont to rest and

It set me’ down, saying: ‘Who hath brought thee to this island of the sea?’

"When I had told my story, the serpent said: ‘Have no fear, oh little one.

Verily God hath spared thy life and thou hast been brought to this isle of the blest.

Verily thou shalt pass four months on this island and then a ship will come,

on which thou shalt go to thy native country, and thou shalt die in thy home town.’

"The serpent continued: ‘I used to live here with my brethren and my children who together numbered seventy-five.

I do not make mention of a maiden brought to me by fate.

And a star fell from heaven and all of them were burnt in the fire which fell with it,

I was not amongst those who were burnt in the fire but I well nigh died of grief for them.’.. -

The serpent smiled at me and said: ‘Behold, I am the Prince of Punt, and it shall come to pass that when thou hast departed from this place, thou shalt never more see this island, for it shall vanish beneath the waves'

"And in due course, as predicted, a ship arrived, and the serpent said: · A safe journey, oh little one, to thy house. I

beseech thee that my name be held in fair repute in thy land, for verily .the thing this is which I desire of thee’... We arrived there at the end of two months and I entered into the presence of the king. And the king praised me and appointed me one of his bodyguard."

This legend with it the elements of several myths and is linked to those of Yamilka and Gilgamish, and with certain
of the Arabian Nights. The Serpent king, the Prince of Punt, may well have been on offshoot of the Egyptian Royal Family.
The falling star recalls Boneff, Bellamy, and Velikovsky. The mysterious island may well be that of Calypso, mentioned by
Homer some 3,000 years later. The papyrus is in the Leningrad Museum and has frequently been translated.

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« Reply #332 on: November 13, 2008, 03:13:32 pm »

Carolyn Silver

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The Argonauts. By Egerton Sykes (a summary)

Miss Janet Bacon, then director of Classical Studies at Girton, assembled all the evidence then available. It is my intention to carry the matter somewhat further, by effecting a partial reconciliation between the various versions of the story, and to put the episode in its proper relation to those other stories of Hercules and medusa which belong to the same period.

The Greeks were late bloomers in the Middle Seas. Before the Greeks exploited other regions the Egyptians and others already had established trade colonies, not only on the coasts but far into the mainland of Southern Europe and European Russia, stretching right across Asia as far as China.

For this reason all early Greek attempts at colonization or trade could only be at the expense of their predecessors, and were not, as one might imagine, fruitful attempts to open up virgin lands. By the time the Greeks had established themselves, they had managed to forget this side of the story, and to assert that they were the first comers, which was certainly not the case.

Jason story outline- King deposed by his younger brother, had his son brought up as rightful heir. (similar to Hercules in its aspects). Reaching of age he claimed his Uncle's throne, and was told he could have it only if he brought back the Golden Fleece from Colchis. This task he accomplished with the aid of a crew of heroes, his ship the Argo, and the aid of Princess Medea. He returned home and took the throne, and lived happily ever after.

That Jason was a contemporary of Hercules is reasonably certain, although he may well have been twenty years his junior.

Homer says that Jason founded a royal house at Lemnos, and concerned in a sea adventure. Homer must have written this about 1,250 B.C. due to his scanty reports on Jason appears Jason was already a very old and lost tale. For this reason I refuse to accept the date of 1,200 B.C. according to Eratosthenes, and Euseubius, and place the whole episode several hundred years earlier. At least at a date when Hercules sacked the Third City of Troy.

Jason the grandson of Aeolus, founder of the dynasty, the first Greek Kingdom in this area must have been about the time of about 2,000 B.C.. His father, Aeson, was deposed by Pelias, and forced to flee. Jason was sent to the famous academy of the Centaur Chiron, where he was educated with the other noble youths till he reached manhood. Afterwards went to his Uncle for the throne, which he was pretty sure Jason could not attain the task put forward to him.

The Golden Fleece is a subject of a far older legend. In a previous generation the two children of Nephele, and grandchildren of King Aeolus, were endanger of being murdered by their father's second wife. They fled eastwards on a vessel called the Flying Ram and Helle was drowned in the Hellespont, while Phryxius her brother, managed to reach Colchis, where the skin of the ram was kept in a temple. Either the Golden Fleece or the Ships name may have been confused in story. In order to reach Colchis, Jason commissioned Argo the shipbuilder to construct a 50-oared galley, which was latter, called Argo after the builder. Ship was one of the largest of Greek ships of its day as sea-going worthy. On assumption that it did not travel at night, the crew would have been at least 60, and the heroes took part were prepared to row and were not supernumary to establishment. The Argo was portable for its size in the manner of the ships of Aesir, could be carried over land by rollers (close to what the Vikings did thousands of years latter). The volunteer crew were sons of great men of their day like the Mayflowers who's who list in America and their family names that may have settled in other regions. Hercules traveled in the first part of the journey with Jason who is the captain. Ship after the prayers for it was sailed from Eolcos for the Black Sea, which at that time was called the Axine, The Unfriendly, to Euxine, The Friendly, thus showing that the Greeks were beginning to find their way about.

First stop was Amazonian Island Lemnos, ruled by Queen Hypsipyle. The ship stayed for several months long enough for Jason to father a child from the queen whom named him Eumenos. Eumenos , who became King on the death of his mother, was mentioned by Homer as sending supplies for the Trojan War. Leaving Lemnos, the Argo stopped at the land of Doliones, ruled over by Cyzicus. This was a small Peninsula on the south side of the Sea of Marmora. Here the Argonauts became involved in a local war where the king of that land was killed. In a sense they stopped in a early trade settlement on route to the Black Sea. Next Port was Bithynia, now the Skutari peninsula opposite of Istambul, where Hercules was left behind. Here the blind king of Phineas was encountered, who was pestered by the harpies, who were driven away, but also King Amycus, of an adjacent area, who was forced to stake his kingdom at the challenge of any visitor who desired to fight him. Pollex said to have done so and to have won, staying behind as king.

The passage through the Symplesades rocks, at the entrance to the Black Sea, must refer to some natural obstruction, which no longer exists. It is clear that great skill was needed to pass them without being dashed against them by the waves, hence the story that the rocks opened and shut at regular intervals. Black Sea was almost unknown to the Greeks, the Egyptians had long before established a chain of trading colonies along the northern and eastern shores, a fact which has been confirmed by Herodotus, Diodorus, and Apolonius Rhodius. Celts also had a chain of settlements for trade with the Danube, and the Norsemen had worked down the middle of the European Russia in a similar manner.

The Argo, however, decided to hug the southern shores of the Black Sea, and in due course reached the Island of Artas, where the Priestess of Stymphalus had sought refuge after having been raided by Hercules. These unfortunate women were again attacked by the Argonauts, but this time the battle was indecisive. Before reaching their destination they sighted the snow capped Caucuses and heard a rumble of an earthquake or an eruption, a fact which may one day enable the date of the trip to be fixed more accurately. The Argo reached Colchis the land of King Aetas, the capital city of which lay some miles up the river Phasis. According to Herodotus and other writers the Colchians were of Egyptian descent, in that they were dark skinned, practicing circumcision and other Egyptian rites. That King Aetes was rich is shown by the descriptions of his palace and possessions, and by his subsequently being able to send a fleet in pursuit of Jason.

His power arose from the fact that he controlled the main terminal port of the most important trade route of the ancient world, stretching from China through the Gobi Desert and Turkestan to Hrycan, the port of the Caspain or Hyracanian Sea on to Teheran, where one branch went via Ecbatana-the modern Hamadan-to Babylon: and the other via Tabriz to the River Phasis and the Kingdom of Aetes. For how long this route had been opened it is difficult to say. That there was a Chinese Civilization round about 4,000 B.C.-at which time a Sothic Cycle began in Lower Egypt-seems certain and the myths and legends of China which have come down to us show evidence of contacts with the barbaric nations to the westward, as far as the Middle Seas, certainly at the time of the Hsia Dynasty, ca 2000 B.C..

Webmaster Note- The recent programs on Discovery Channel about the Vikings in Russia transporting has pushed back the dates of their finds on the Volga. Also, the findings of the Gobi Mummy's of a Caucasian type people contacting the Mongols Discovery program now further confirms dates being pushed back and the truth of these aforementioned historical notes of Greek writers which they had previously implied.

Another point, which may possibly facilitated trade was the fact that the chain of lakes stretching from the former Gobi Sea to the Caspian had not dried up to their present extent, the Caspain and the Aral Sea being one (Aral Sea has recently dropped 75 feet). Lake Balkash, being much larger, as was also the case with the minor lakes between there and Lake Balkial. This relative abundance of water enabled the trade routes to be opened up without great difficulty.

The importance of Poti-the present name for the town at the mouth of the Phasis-as a traffic enter, it would seem that it was a center for the disposal of the alluvial gold found in the rivers of the Caucuses. I am aware that at the present the gold supplies of this area, as with Britain, are no more, but four thousand years ago they may have been large enough for economy of the period.

It is with this the possible solution of the Golden Fleece comes in. Many years ago, as a child, I remember reading that alluvial gold miners of Australia and in the Americas, used sheepskin for trapping the grains of fine gold in suspension in the water. This method, I understand, had been picked up from the natives and had been in use for long periods of time.

Jason being the cousin of Phryxius had claims to throne the walking off with the fleece from King Aetes and his court was not welcomed. He was cooly received and was asked by the king for further tasks such as harnessing the brazen bulls to the plough and sowing the dragon teeth.

From the Webmaster- I believe I am the only person who has ever found the connection of this verse to an actual prehistoric ritual practice of the harnessing of Bulls with plough and the Dragon's teeth sowed. In a region of Sardinia and North Western Italy's Val d' Aosta of the 'nuraghi' monument ancient culture the archaeologists found ploughed fields with ritual teeth put in the ground as if they were seeds in Saint Martin De Corleans. The bull cult is well known there and the teeth were found to be animal or people teeth. The fact of the Dragon association had more to do with not just a reptiles tooth like a crocodile's for it could be substituted, but a ritual note on Moon Cycles, and Sirius Cycles of rising or setting dates. The point that Jason had to do both is the fact that the king felt Jason might want to settle down there with his crew from traveling and be apart of Aetes Riches. The toil of what Jason had to do was to break his spirit down from the labor of ploughing and sowing be it celestial or terrestrial. The brazen bull might have even been as Sykes goes onto say a kind of early fire breathing agriculture tractor. Man may have very early used that fire and steam. The fuel of course would be the factor of accessibility, yet crude oil from Batoum-, which as Sykes says in this case, may have been for amusement rather then true use. The point is that the Sardinia Island People had a cult very much like the southern Black Sea King Aetes's regional cult. This may well be the first time discovered (by myself) that they may in fact be cousins between the Colchis and the Sardinia cultural groups in regards to agriculture practices? The date in Sardinia for this cult has been fixed as pre-Dorian and goes back to 2,400 B.C.. What is interesting is that they claim to have come originally from Africa when waters drowned out the pillars of salt which people were turned into (reminds of the tale of Lot and his city turned into pillars of salt?). Ironically, the cult on the Island like Malta has similarities to those found in Anatolia which is a hop and a skip form the Black Sea domain. That culture is at least 5,000 B.C. in earliest form in Sardinia and Malta. It would seem the Dragon teeth and Brazen Bull are an old cult of possible African origin, and when Egypt colonized the Black Sea by 3,500 B.C..

Cont. The Argonauts

With the help of Princess Medea Jason mastered this locomotive bull and ploughed the field of Ares (here we see Ares as not just Mars-Planet and Ram, but a Greek form of Apollo in a Horus name). The soldiers growing from the field out of the dragon teeth may have been the soldiers of the king putting down a disturbance in the crowd watching this Jason Trial which gave Jason the chance of escape to his boat-(the soldiers clan name may have been the same as 'Dragon Teeth' like Senti Ibrea or Sept-Yeb-Ur, and the reason is that the Po is next to the Danube River which leads to the other Italian Coast to Sardinia). Medea told Jason to leave with the Fleece at night since the king wanted to kill them. The meaning of Jason stealing the fleece out of the grove under drugged guards was accomplished by Medea a Priestess witch of Hecate and cousin to Circe. Even Dragon may mean a 'commander of a place guard' wearing this emblem, rather than an animal.

In hot pursiut Aetes sent a fleet of ships as Jason went Northwards and westwards, which Aetes fleet only caught up with him at Gulf of Kertsch, at the entrance of Sea of Azof 500 miles away or a ten day trip under good conditions. Absyrtus, stepbrother of Medea was slain as commander of the fleet defeated by a strategem. Jason was forced to due to forces or condition to flee up the Tanais River or Don. Earliest mention of the route is by Timaeus in 300 B.C., as reported by Diodorus two hundred and sixty years later. The Orphic Argonaut also says that they passed from the sea of Maeotis (Azof) northwards to the lands of the Scythians and the Hypoboreans. Scymnus of Chios, in 100 B.C. said the Argo took a northward route via Tanais, and that to get from one river to another they took the ship on rollers.The route was the same the Egyptians took with their established trade posts at Tanais at the mouth of the Don, and went northwards to the Great Bend, where they carried ships overland to the Volga, a distance of 30 miles, to a point near Stalingrad of today. Egyptians established themselves in the Hrycanian or Caspian Sea, and established themselves at Astrakhan, or 'City of Ra and Isis', and gone northwards to start Moscow which in Egyptian means 'Fur Town'. Volga the Rha ment Ra, Sun God, and the Moscow has a tributary near it called Pra, or Pharoah i.e. 'Great House' in Egyptian. The Argo made way northwards to Rejv, from where they would have to transport 45 miles over land to get to the upper reaches of the Dvina, with a clear run down the Gulf of Riga. The ordeal was not accomplished in under 6 months. The Greeks knew of the Cronian Sea or Baltic and that it was called a dead sea because no sun could pierce the mists, which indicates the Argo arrived in Autumn, and managed to get away by spring. Two routes to return home to Greece they had to choose from:

Amber route Frische Nehrung, from Danzig to Konigsberg, and the Kurische Nehrung, from Konigsberg (Krantz) to Memel, found its way south.

Vistula via Bydgoszcz and Krakow, thence to eastern Galacia and down the Dniester to the Black Sea.

The second- Branching off this route at Krakow, striking southwards over the Tatras to the Danube or ister, and thence to Bucharest (Ister Mouth) and the Black Sea. Either route endangered them so the probably took the most western route back.

Elbe, Moldau, Trieste are tempting journeys, probably the Rhine was selected in order to keep the Argo. The mention is of Stormy Lakes, which spread throughout the Celtic Mainland and implies Switzerland, in union with sailing down the Rhodianus or Rhone to its mouth. After reaching Rhone, ship would follow coastline home, going round Italy and up the Adriatic, which explains an attempt to sail up the Eridanus or Po. Then down the Dalmatian Coast, round the south of Greece and home. The journey took four years, and not suprising. The journey's influence rivals the exploits of Alexander the Great in exposing early Greek Culture to the Amber and Fur world of Central Europe.

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« Reply #333 on: November 13, 2008, 03:14:01 pm »

Carolyn Silver

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1953 cont.

The Amazons, P. Hoffman


The Amazons were found on both sides of the Ocean at a remote time and had stories about them in both Old and the New World. Diodorus Siculus writes about a part they played in the history of Atlantis under the leadership of Queen Myrina (Mer-Ani?), while several authors place them with an Island in the Atlantic. Apart from Ogygia, the island of Calypso, daughter of Atlas in Odyssey, and Celtic story of Tir-na-m-Ingen, 'The Land of Virgins' there is two others not well known. Qazwini the Arab chronicler says: "The city of the women, is a great town in an island in the Sea towards the West. (There follows a description of how their children were fathered by slaves)…the city of women is a fact about which there is no doubt."

Edrisi the Geographer writes: "In the sea of darkness (The Atlantic) there are many uninhabited islands. There are however two, named the islands of the heathen Amazons, one of which is populated by women only."

German Scientist Professor R. Hennig of Dusseldorf answered a question of how women became Amazons, in his work, "Wo lag das Paradies": "Apart from the Atlantean Empire, where we may feel confident that any race of fighting women were but remnants of migrations from the Atlantean Islands, the only major occurrence of this strange fact is in the Far East, where until recently, women lived separately on certain islands and the men on others, to meet only for a few weeks in the year. This state of affairs was upheld in order to limit the population of the island which could only supply a certain limited quantity of food."

Is it not probable that the cause of the Atlantean Amazons was not the same. According to Zimmer, there exist celtic memories of an island in the Atlantic in which men lived, apart from the Island of Virgins. Through long periods of history we hear of the Atlanteans fighting for lebensraum, which may have been due to migration waves following successive submersions of portions of the island, as recorded by Timaeus (cf Donnelly and Spence) or to the rising tides as Luna drew near to the Earth. The present writer feels that both explanations are probably right. The date of 12,000 B.C. as given by Bellamy for the submergence of the greater part of Atlantis is probably right while that given by Kamienski in Atlantis Vol.4, No. 5, would link up the final submersion of Posedonius with the visit of Halley's Comet, which is about the time given by Plato. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Atlanteans fought each other in places where migrants settled. So to the Greek Myths of the avoiding of conception is not accidental due to population issues in small areas. True in latter dates the Amazons started to change policy and issued more children, but retained the custom longer then was necessary.

Note by Editor: Calypso's isle of Ogygia is noted by Plutarch: "De Facie in Orbe Lunae," and by Lycophoron. The Eleusian Mysteries were called the Ogygiades. The best known King Ogyges was the Son of Neptune and Alistra, and the father of Eleusis by Daeria, or, alternatively (Graves) the father of Daeira, the High Priestess of Eleusis. There was a Deluge in his reign, of which there are two versions (Boetia and Attica). The time was marked by an uncommon appearance in the heavens according to Varro.

Webmasters Note: The Ogyg is the root form of his name related to Magog Gog giant names later, and it has goat name also of Agygia since the Cyclops did have sheep. Then Giades and Cadiz end of the mysteries cult name shows the Spanish name of a region, and a vague term for a Horse. The Iades within that word has the Hades, or Ha Hati term of the Underworld and Isis and Nephthys Goddesses. We can outline now:

Giant, Islands, or Lands, Sea Horse-Goat i.e. Capricorn Age, Cathonic Goddess Priestess Temples, and mining race. The Eleusis involved the Horus, Osiris and Isis group but with a Western Isles emphasis. The Alistra name involved the Ara-Star Constellation and Neptune refers to this seat and altar under the sea. The uncommon appearance occurred with a close encounter, or encounter of a celestial body when not one but 3-5 comets appeared in the sky at around 11,000 B.C. or earlier.


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« Reply #334 on: November 13, 2008, 03:15:03 pm »

Gwen Parker

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Great stuff, Carolyn! I never knew Sykes work extended into Greek mythology.
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« Reply #335 on: November 13, 2008, 03:15:45 pm »

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Pagan Goddesses and Gods of the Delphi Oracle
by
MaatRaAh (Cont.)



It must be noted that the Pythoness was still giving oracle at the time Origen wrote, and Origen did not report having personally seen this--even though he was a Greek--but rather, he reports that "it is said." And his statement was pure fantasy, intended to paint the Pythoness as a demonic channel.
The Pythoness did sit on a brass tripod, each leg of which represented a Goddess; the front most--facing east-- was Hera; tripod right was Pasiphae, the Cretan wife of Minos whose Bull worship was still reflected in Delphic worship; and tripod left was Ino, who, like Pasiphae predated the Apollonian invasion of the shrine. Thought apotheosis Ino became, Leucothea, Goddess of pools and streams, as it was from the pool of Castalia that the Priestess obtained her bowl of water from which she descried the oracle. The water from the Castalia pool contained methane and ethylene, traces of which are still present in the pool today. And it is likely that there was a greater degree of these gasses present anciently. And it is also possible that the amount of these gasses, and possibly others, decreased over the centuries, and as their euphoric properties decreased, so did the ability to produce oracle.
It was upon this tripod that the Pythoness sat with parted thighs, but she did not give frenzied oracle. That was the Sibyl of Cumae; and of course Origen would have considered any spirit or God which entered the Pythoness to be evil.
Socrates recognized the differences in madness, distinguishing it from being sane,
"but there is also a madness which is a divine gift, and the source of the chiefest blessings granted to men. For prophecy is a madness, and the prophetess at Delphi and the priestesses at Dodona when out of their senses have conferred great benefits on Hellas, both in public and private life, but when in their senses few or none." (Phaedrus, 243)
But being out of one's senses does not mean that one is "plunged" into a state of frenzy. On the contrary, all ancient paintings of the Pythoness show her seated on her tripod with a laurel sprig in her right hand and a bowl of water in her left from which she descries the oracle. No picture of the Pythoness shows her in a frenzied state, nor would she have been able to hold a bowl of water in that condition.
Origen, thus, becomes a classic example of the Christian ignorance which prevailed in the early days of that religion. That ignorance did not improve with age.
This is not to say that the Pythoness was not frenzied when she was in the cavern, as she most often was, for theolepsy was part of the oracle of Dionysus whose shrine was behind that of Apollo's. However, the cavern was forbidden to all but the priestess, and it is doubtful that she was ever seen in frenzied state when seated upon her tripod.
Modern exploration of the temple show mineral traces of methane and ethylene which could have been the fumes described by Plutarch. However, many of the questions asked by the inquirants have survived, and though many are trivial, they require more then a simple "yes" or "no" answer. Moreover, many of the answers have survived, and none are gibberish, but are articulate, though often couched in ambiguous terms. The Pythoness, however, did not speak directly to the inquirant, but rather she spoke to the priest of Apollo was always placed between the pythoness and the people.
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« Reply #336 on: November 13, 2008, 03:16:35 pm »

Gwen Parker

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This is what the 536th High Priestess of my religion told me about the Pythoness:
"She sat on a brass tripod, with a brass bowl filled with water in her right hand and a laurel sprig in her left; it was not fumes from the cavern which intoxicated the Priestess, for oracle had been given there long before the murder of Python by Apollo; the Pythoness was entered by the Spirit of the Vortex while alone in the lower cavern, protected by her two assistants who remained above. When she ascended she gave oracle in the ancient Cretan tongue, which was gibberish to the uninitiated, but was translated or interpreted by the priest and given to the inquirant. When the spirit was too weak to enter the Pythoness, she used a plant to induce a weakened physical and mental state; the plant which induce the trance-like state grew near the temple, and Coretas' goats had become intoxicated from eating the leaves of the tree (or bush), while the sheep, which are grazers, not browsers, were not affected. Coretas, however, had not eaten the leaves, but had become intoxicated after he had drunk a tea he had made from the leaves - which our priestesses say is a Laurel which grows only in that area; but originally oracle was given to the priestess when she was in an orgiastic state in the lower chamber and her assistant priestess conveyed the oracle to those who waited above." (The High Priestess also stated that while the fumes did not intoxicate, they produced a sense of euphoria which elevated the Priestess the same way music elevates the soul.)
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« Reply #337 on: November 13, 2008, 03:17:57 pm »

Gwen Parker

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Robert Graves seems to agree somewhat with this, stating that the "Goddess Daphoene [also Daphonesissa [the bloody one] was worshiped by a college of orgiastic laurel-chewing Maenads" and that "Apollo took over the laurel which, afterwards, only the Pythoness might chew".
Some species of the Laurel are mildly poisonous in small amounts--lethal in larger dosages--and when made into a decoction (boiled) of honey-wine, it has been know to produce prophetic hallucinations at the places of oracle. However, prior to the use of laurel leaves, the priestesses received oracle in three other ways,the first was by ecstatic orgasm, the second by drinking blood of sacred bulls, and the other by use of poisonous snakes to induce the oracular state.
Delphi is a classic example of the patriarchy overcoming Goddess worship. In order for the priests of Apollo to take possession of the oracle, it was necessary to destroy the Python and overcome the Cretan Goddess worship which had employed Snakes and the Bull for centuries. And while Apollo was very new in the Greek pantheon, the sacrificing of sheep to Apollo did not supplant the sacrificing of bulls to the Goddess until Classic times.
It is recorded that Doria [also called Rhodopis, the Thracian courtesan who lived in Egypt] donated a tenth of her wealth to have hugh iron spits made which were large enough to roast whole oxen. This was done in atonement of her fellow Thracian, Aesop, (of Fable fame) whom the Delphinians had killed by throwing him from the precipice (c. 193 AUC--560 BCE). These iron spits were used for the sacrifices at the altar of Dionysus which was opposite the temple building. After the ram supplanted oxen, the spits were removed and stored behind the altar where they were seen at the time of Herodotus (c. 299 AUC--454 BCE) but they were only mentioned by the priests at the time of Plutarch (c. 800 AUC--47 CE).
There had been six shrines at Delphi. The fifth which was made of dressed stones was burned and the sixth [and last] was erected in 262 AUC--491 BCE). Tradition has it that the fourth shrine had been built of brass by Hephaestus but was swallowed by an earthquake. However, this brass shrine of Hephaestus would have predated that of the laurels, as Hephaestus (Ptah in Egypt) was the master of the Cyclops (Kyklops), who predated the worship of Apollo. The brass shrine is more fable than myth, as there is no evidence of this kind of earthquake activity at the sight for at least 30,000 years. The second shrine was said to have been made of fern-stalks, which indicates that the oracle was purely sexual before it was replaced by the equally sexual Cretan Order. This is confirmed by the first shrine also which was made of bee's wax and feathers, which indicates that the oracle was not only sexual, but had its origin in Egypt, and that the cave was at one time a Vortic center--the bee's wax being formed in the shape of an omphalos.
The Omphalos, or Navel of the World, was said to have originally been in the cave at Delphi, but that would have been at least 6,000 years before Troy; and that conflicts with Greek myth which has Zeus losing his navel string at Omphalion, which is on Crete, near Knossos. Knossos, of course, predated the Greeks by at least one thousand years, and it is likely that the later Greeks attributed the Omphalos to Delphi because it was the home of Pythos, the Stone of Rhea.
The Stone of Rhea came about when Uranus, whom Cronus had castrated before usurping his throne, prophesied that one of the Children of Cronus would in a like manner dethrone him. Cronus took this to heart and after making his sister, Rhea, his consort, each year she bore to him a child. Hestia was the first, then Demeter, and Hera, third. After this were born Hades followed by Poseidon. Cronus devoured each of these five as they were born. Rhea's third son, Zeus was born at night on Mount Lycaeum in Arcadia. Knowing that Cronus would devour her newborn son, Rhea bathed him in the River Neda, to cover him with an earthly scent, and gave him to Gaea (Mother Earth) who took him to Lyctos in Crete where he was hidden in the Cave of Dictes. There he was cared for by the daughters of Melisseus, by name, Adrasteia and Io, and by the Goat-nymph Amalthea, who fed Zeus and his foster-brother, Pan, on her milk.
When Zeus grew to maturity he went to the Ocean Stream where he took his first mate, the Oceanid, Metis (counsel), one of the thousand daughters of Oceanus and Tethys. It was Metis who instructed Zeus in how to become the Cup Bearer of Cronus. She also taught Zeus how to serve his father an emetic concoction, which caused Cronus to vomit the children he had swallowed. The first disgorged was not a child, but the Stone Rhea had given to Cronus, wrapped in swaddling clothes, and which he believed to be Her Son. When disgorged, the stone called Pythos, was hurled down to Mount Parnassus where Zeus fixed it in a deep cleft. It was constantly anointed with oil by the suppliants of Apollo who offered it strands of unwoven wool. It was Metis, also, who would be the force in the dethronement of Zeus.
The usurping of the priestess' authority took place no more than three generations before the Trojan war. It was Heracles who had restructured the zodiac with his twelve labors, and it was Perseus who had set Pegasus and Agyieus loose to destroy the Goddess worship in Greece. For it was the winged-horse, Pegasus, springing full grown the body of Medusa, who then flew to mount Halcion where he became the favorite of the Muses; and it was the poets, touched by the Muses, who created the myth of their past. Even so, the takeover of Delphi was not completed for least 600 years.
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« Reply #338 on: November 13, 2008, 03:18:36 pm »

Gwen Parker

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Greek myth has Phoebus (radiant) Apollo being born on the small floating island of Delos, the seven-month child of Leto, (Roman, Latona) and Zeus. His twin sister, born a sacred nine days before Apollo on the Isle of Ortigia, was the Grey-Eyed, Virgin-Huntress, Artemis, who would become the Roman Diane, and bear the epitath Cynthae, which She gained in Her dispute with Aphrodite who bore the title Cynthera.
The Greeks had Zeus always off seducing and impregnating married and unmarried woman and the Goddess, Hera, His wife, was always trying to take vengeance on those women. One fable--for it is certainly not myth--has Python pursuing Leto until she came to Delos. This is obviously a Hellenized version of Isis who, when pregnant with Horus, was pursued by Set (the Greek Typhoon) until she came to the moving island of Ta-Neter, as the Greeks considered Isis and Leto to be the same, just as they considered Apollo to be Horus. The Egyptians, prior to the Greek invasion, made no such association, but rather worshiped Leto as a foreign goddess whom they called Lat--the Romans would call Leto, Latona. Most of the remainder of the Apollo fable is inconsistent with Egyptian myth.
The Chick Quail, which is the last letter in the Egyptian Alphabet--pronounced U (OO), is found in both cultures, but in very different aspects. And while all Egyptian Goddesses or Netert supported Isis in her travails, the Greek, Hera, was made the enemy of Leto. Also, Ta-Neter, which was to the South and East of Egypt, welcomed Isis and floated away, never to be seen again, when Isis and her infant son left. However, the Isle of Delos was unwilling to receive the Greek Leto, fearing that it would be forgotten and sunk into the depths of the sea. Delos, of course, became a permanent Island, and one of the centers of Apollo worship. Hera was said to have used guile and deception to keep Ilithyia, the Goddess of Child Birth on Olympus, thus making the labor of Leto (after the birth of Artemis) nine days, before the birth Goddess could come and deliver her son.
After leaving Delos, Apollo pursued Python, the enemy of Leto, who fled to Crisa, which would later be called Delphi. There Apollo entered the shrine of the Goddess Mother of the Earth and killed Python beside the chasm. Of course, Pythos, was the Stone of Rhea which was placed there by Zeus, but the destruction of Serpent Worship at the oracle needed justification. It was the fumes of the decaying body of Python which were said to fill the lower chamber of the shrine--but since only priestesses were permitted into the lower chamber, even the Greeks had to speculate on what was there.
The Pythian games were inaugurated as a funeral honor to Python. Apollo may have been able to do away with the Python (that is, the Goddess worhsip of the priestesses) but the people still honored their ancient Goddesses. In later years, the Olympian Games would invoke the Pythian Truce which were written on the five concentric rings which insured that the Olympics could be held every 4 years without fear of attack or revenge by any attending. Today those rings are said to represent the five modern continents from which contestants came to the first modern Olympic games--there were of course six continents represented in the first modern Olympic game.
Apollo was tainted by this murder of Python, and Zeus sent him to Tempe for purification; but Apollo sailed instead to Tarrha in Crete, where King Carmanor [son of Dionysus and Alixirrhoe] performed the rite. This of course makes Dionysus older than Apollo, which is also indicated by the oracle of Dionysus which was at Crisa, before its name was changed to Delphi--in honor of Apollo-Delphinus, or dolphin.
Cleombrotus, in Plutarch's Why Oracles Failed (21) tells of a wise man on the Persian Gulf, who stated to him that
"[the] slayer [of Python] was not afterwards banished for nine years nor did he go to Tempe, but on being sentenced he passed to another world. After nine cycles of great years he came back from there purified and truly Phoebus, and took over the oracle which until then had been guarded by Themis. (The Goddess of Justice.)
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« Reply #339 on: November 13, 2008, 03:18:58 pm »

Gwen Parker

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On his return to Delphi, Apollo attempted to seduce Daphne, the priestess of the Goddess Mother Earth, but when he was about to catch her, she cried out and Mother Earth took her away to Crete (the home of the Serpent Priestesses), and left the laurel-tree in her place. Apollo consoled himself by making a "laurel wreath" for himself. Or so the Greeks would like us to believe.
Ovid makes Daphne the daughter of the river God Peneus, and the blunt (literally of Cupid's revenge) Apollo chided Cupid one day for his use of the bow, and bragged how his arrow never failed, and how he slew Python with countless darts. Cupid countered by telling Apollo "You are far above all creatures living, and by just that distance your glory less than mine". Cupid then waited for his revenge. That was not long coming, when Cupid saw Apollo approaching the place where Daphne bathed in her father's pool. He drew from his quiver two different arrows, one gleaming golden and sharp, the other deadeningly blunt, tipped with lead to drive all love away, and this he used on Daphne, while he shot Apollo with the stinging sharp arrow of love, through bone, through marrow, and through the heart, and he loved Daphne. Daphne had many suitors, bus spurned them and made the marriage torches hateful and criminal to her. Apollo pursued her, telling her he was lord of Delphi, Tenedos, Claros and Patara and Zeus was his father. But she fled and Apollo, driven by the superior power of love gave chase. She escaped him at first, but his relentless pursuit drove her to terror and exhaustion, and seeing the river of her father she cried for his help. Her father heard and "when her limbs grew numb and heavy, her soft breasts were closed with delicate bark, her hair was leaves, her arms were branches, and her speedy feet roots and held, and her head became a tree top. Everything gone except her grace, her shining. Apollo lover her still. He placed his hand where he had hoped and felt the heart still beating under the bark; and he embraced the branches as if they still were limbs, and kissed the wood, and the wood shrank from his kisses," and from that time on he loved the Laurel above all trees.
The truth of the matter is, Daphne (laurel) was the daughter of Teiresias, the blind Theban Prophet who gave birth to her during the seven years when he had been a woman. His other daughter, Manto [the mother of Mopsus, the seer] he sired after he was a man again. Daphne and Manto were both taken captive when Thebes fell in the generation before Troy. Manto was sent to Ionia where she married Rhacius, King of Caria, by whom she had Mopsus--said to be the son of Apollo. Daphne remained a virgin and was sent to Delphi; most likely to add the power of Teiresias to the Delphi oracle which had recently (within 100 years) been taken over by the Apollonians. There she became the Sibyl. There are some who say that Manto had her name changed to Daphne when she was sent to Delphi, but this is perpetrated by Apollonians who forget that the Sibyl spurned Apollo's love, while Mopsus was the son of Apollo and Manto.
To obtain Priests for his new cult, Apollo, became a Dolphin and sought out a ship from Crete, which he led back to Greece. The Captain was made High Priest of Apollo and instructed in his rites. The priestesses of Daphoene remained at Crisa, which was now named after the Dolphin--Delphi and were now Priestesses of Apollo and were 9 in number. Originally the priestesses were chosen as young girls, and like all priestesses of The Goddess performed sexual rituals in the function of oracle. During the reign of the Spartan king, Cleomenes, the method of selecting priestesses was changed when it was discovered that the Pythoness, Perialla, had been bribed by love to give false oracle. Their number was reduced to three and they were chosen only after they had reached an age when they were no longer eligible for marriage, [50 years] at which time no man would desire them sexually--some women as old as 70 years when chosen. The Pythonesses did not die young as some modern scholars assert, as they were old before receiving their calling.
It must be noted that Apollo was strictly a Greek creation. He existed in no other nation before the Greeks became a world power. Where Zeus ruled the heavens, Poseidon the seas, and Hades the underworld, with the earth common to all, Apollo held dominion in all--or so the Greeks believed. Along with Athena, Apollo holds the distinction of being the one Greek god who was not represented in the heavens. He was said to be the Sun God, but Helios held that distinction--he was also said to be the light of the moon, but that is because of his twin sister Artemis. It is obvious that Apollo was a Greek form of the Egyptian Horus, who through religious transformation became unique to the Greeks.
Apollo was not just a god of light, but also of healing and disease. His greatest and most feared weapon was thus inflicted on humanity in the form of deathful diseases. It would appear that when the Aryan herdsmen began their invasion of Asia and southern Europe, their first contacts with the hunters and gathers of the lands brought disease and death to the natives. This has always been the case because most deadly diseases, smallpox, etc, are also diseases of herd animals. Cowpox, for instance, was found to be a good vaccine against smallpox. The herdsmen built an immunity towards the diseases, but the hunters, gathers and farmers who had no domestic animals, like the Native Americans, were ravaged the common cold for which they had no immunity. The invading Aryans attributed this great power to destroy by disease to their new God--Apollo--who fought on their side and destroyed all their enemies. And while Apollo was the most beloved god of the Greeks, when other nations became immune to the diseases of the Aryans, he was also the first to lose his power. The deadly far-shooting arrow of Apollo, which would spread disease would be replaced by his murderous worshipers, who launched the Dorian Invasion.
Cleomenes became co-king of Sparta on the death of his father Anaxandrides, son of Leon, who was co-king with Ariston during the time when Croesus was king of Lydia. Until the time of Anaxandrides, the Spartans were undefeated by any other nation, except the Tegeans. Upon consulting the Oracle at Delphi he was told that Sparta could achieve mastery over Tegea only if they retrieved the bones of Orestes--the son of Agamemnon who avenged the murder of his father and became the archetype of the Dorian race--from Tegea. Not knowing where the bones of Orestes were, Anaxandrides sent Licuas to the Oracle of Delphi, who told him to "go where two winds meet, where stroke meets stroke, and where evil rings upon evil," and there he would find the bones buried in the earth. Licuas went to Tegea where he met a smith who was forging a sword of iron instead of bronze. Licuas marveled at the sight and was told by the smith that more unusual things were there. While he was digging a well he had found an enormous coffin which had huge bones in it. Licuas then knew that the "two winds" referred to the smith's bellows, the "strokes" were of the hammer meeting the sword, and "evil upon evil" referred to the iron hammer meeting the iron sword, as iron was the sign of the evil of the "Iron Age." Lichas returned to Sparta and told what he had discovered. Anaxandrides sent him back to the smith disguised as a runaway slave. During the night he stole the bones from the coffin and escaped with them to Sparta. From that time on, the Spartans became the masters over Tegea. Anaxandrides had married his sisters daughter, and even though she was barren, he refused to put her away as the ephors demanded. The ephors and elders of the Lacedaemon came to him again and ordered him either to put away his wife (or they would find a way to do away with her) or take a second wife (contrary to Spartan law). He took a second wife and she became the mother of Cleomedes.


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« Reply #340 on: November 13, 2008, 03:19:33 pm »

 
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quote:
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From Burnet's Introduction
IV. Hesiod

When we come to Hesiod, we seem to be in another world. We hear stories of the gods which are not only irrational but repulsive, and these are told quite seriously. Hesiod makes the Muses say: "We know how to tell many false things that are like the truth; but we know too, when we will, to utter what is true."9 This means that he was conscious of the difference between the Homeric spirit and his own. The old light-heartedness is gone, and it is important to tell the truth about the gods. Hesiod knows, too, that he belongs to a later and a sadder time than Homer. In describing the Ages of the World, he inserts a fifth age between those of Bronze and Iron. That is the Age of the Heroes, the age Homer sang of. It was better than the Bronze Age which came before it, and far better than that which followed it, the Age of Iron, in which Hesiod lives.10 He also feels that he is singing for another class. It is to shepherds and husbandmen of the older race he addresses himself, and the Achaian princes for whom Homer sang have become remote persons who give "crooked dooms." The romance and splendour of the Achaian Middle Ages meant nothing to the common people. The primitive view of the world had never really died out among them; so it was natural for their first spokesman to assume it in his poems. That is why we find in Hesiod these old savage tales, which Homer disdained.

Yet it would be wrong to see in the Theogony a mere revival of the old superstition. Hesiod could not help being affected by the new spirit, and he became a pioneer in spite of himself. The rudiments of what grew into Ionic science and history are to be found in his poems, and he really did more than any one to hasten that decay of the old ideas which he was seeking to arrest. The Theogony is an attempt to reduce all the stories about the gods into a single system, and system is fatal to so wayward a thing as mythology. Moreover, though the spirit in which Hesiod treats his theme is that of the older race, the gods of whom he sings are for the most part those of the Achaians. This introduces an element of contradiction into the system from first to last. Herodotos tells us that it was Homer and Hesiod who made a theogony for the Hellenes, who gave the gods their names, and distributed among them their offices and arts,11 and it is perfectly true. The Olympian pantheon took the place of the older gods in men's minds, and this was quite as much the doing of Hesiod as of Homer. The ordinary man would hardly recognise his gods in the humanised figures, detached from all local associations, which poetry had substituted for the older objects of worship. Such gods were incapable of satisfying the needs of the people, and that is the secret of the religious revival we shall have to consider later.


Burnet's Notes
.
9. Hes. Theog. 27 (the words are borrowed from Od. xix. 203). The Muses are the same as those who inspired Homer, which means that Hesiod wrote in hexameters and used the Epic dialect.

10. There is great historical insight here. It was Hesiod, not our modern historians, who first pointed out that the "Greek Middle Ages" were a break in the normal development.

11. Herod. ii. 53.
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"The most incomprehensible thing about our universe is that it can be comprehended." - Albert Einstein

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« Reply #341 on: November 14, 2008, 01:12:41 pm »

Titans and Atlantis

Herr_Saltzman

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  posted 11-10-2005 10:38 PM                   
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There is a popular theory that the war between the Titans and the Olympians is in fact the same one as that between the Atlantaeans and the Athenians.

It certainly is a very interesting theory.

This thread is meant for its discussion.

Like King Atlas is the leader of Atlantis, Atlas is the general of the Titans in the Titanomachy.

When Uranus, God of the Sky, sees the fighting between the Gods, he is so upset that he collapses, and the sky falls. This is the reason why Zeus must punish Atlas to hold up the sky.

The collapsing of the sky may be associated with comets colliding into earth -and causing tidal waves?

There is certainly some evidence that the Titanomachy may be a memory of a real conflict.

Take for example the Hecatonchires, the "Hundred Handed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatonchires

The Hecatonchires are commonly considered sea deities. They could refer to pentekonters, longboats with 50 men, making one-hundred hands. The Hecatonchires had 50 heads -50 men would have one-hundred hands and 50 heads.

The Gigantes on the other hand, in their earliest form, are described as a wild race of barbaric PEOPLE, dressed in armour and with spears.

Could they be a memory of a fierce barbaric nation?

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Cheers, and Good Mental Health,
Herr Saltzman

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001530;p=10

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« Reply #342 on: November 14, 2008, 01:13:05 pm »

 
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Hello Herr Saltzman,

Well the only work that has a proof between Atlantis and Titans, is mine.

Please go to the following thread of this forum:

ATLANTIS-PACIFIC OCEAN-TITANS-ELINS-THE EXACT LOCATION.

Read carefully and the donwload my work.To take your attention, look this:

ATLANTIS--->TITAN+LAS [ The TITAN are the known TITANS from greek mythology ]

ELLANIS---->ELIN+LAS [ The ELIN are not in greek mythologie, but think how todays Greek men are called:ELLINES or better for one person ELLIN written todays with two "N" and "H" ( HETA ) ]

All are explained in my work.

My Best Wishes

John X.

Electronic Engineer

Greece
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« Reply #343 on: November 14, 2008, 01:13:26 pm »

Chronos

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   posted 11-15-2005 08:47 AM                       
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There are many different parallels between the Titans being the Atlanteans and either Titanomachy or Gigantomachy referring to the conflict between Atlantis and Athens. I've actually been very interested in the Titans since I came here (obviously). My thread, "the Titans & Early Greek Mythology" covers the topic from most angles. It's about eight pages long, though, so it's not light reading:

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000942

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The one true academic search for Atlantis begins at Atlantis Online:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

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« Reply #344 on: November 14, 2008, 01:14:29 pm »

Rich

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"(38) The Pæonians, according to some, were a dependent colony of the Phrygians; according to others, they were an independent settlement. Pænonia, it is said, extended to Pelagonia and Pieria; Pelagonia is said to have been formerly called Orestia; and Asteropæus, one of the chiefs from Pæonia who went to Troy, to have been called, with great probability, the son of Pelagon, and the Pæonians themselves to have been called Pelagones. E.
(39) The Asteropæus in Homer, son of Pelegon, we are told, was of Pæonia in Macedonia: whence `Son of Pelegon;' for the Pæonians were called Pelagones. EPIT.
(40) As the pœanismus, or singing of the Thracian Pæan, was called titanusmus by the Greeks, in imitation of a well- known note in the pæan, so the Pelagones were called Titanes. E, [p. 515] " -- Strabo Book 7
...
"312 The fountain Hypereia is in the middle of the city of the Pheraeans, which belonged to Eumelus. It is absurd, therefore, to assign the fountain to Eurypylus. Titanus313 was named from the fact in the case there; for the region near Arne and Aphetae has white soil. Asterium, also, is not far from these. "--Strabo Book 9
...
"CHAP. 32. (30.)--ÆOLIS.
Æolis1 comes next, formerly known as Mysia, and Troas which is adjacent to the Hellespont. Here, after passing Phocæa, we come to the Ascanian Port, then the spot where Larissa2 stood, and then Cyme3 , Myrina, also called Sebastopolis4 , and in the interior, Ægæ5 , Attalia6 , Posidea, Neon- [p. 1473] tichos7 , and Temnos8 . Upon the shore we come to the river Titanus, and the city which from it derives its name" -- Pliny Book 5
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