Of Gods and Myth

[cleasterwood]

I am one who firmly believes that every myth contains some amount of truth to it.  Mythology was the first religion.  Christians borrowed texts from Egyptian sources and other sources that were already thousands of years old.  Many examples can be found in a book called  Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament with Supplement by James Bennett Pritchard.  The book is huge!  You can find so many parallels between the Old Testament's creation story and creation myths of other ancient cultures.  Most of the Old Testament was taken from older pre-existing texts.

Here are some links for further study that show examples:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/481124-Light_on_the_Old_Testament_from_the_Ancient_Near_East.htm
http://www.ancientdays.net/creationstories.htm

But this isn't about the Old Testament, is it?  I started this topic to help this forum grow a little bit.  I have many, many books on my shelves filled with Mythology of the Egyptian gods and goddesses.  So ask away and I'll try to find the answers for you. 

Blessed be,
Lynn

[Majeston]

author=cleasterwood
 Mythology was the first religion. 

wrong

next case

[Trent]

I don't see how mythology couldn't be the first religion, Maejston, given that religion, by it's very nature simply implies, worship of something.

Cleasterwood, we all know that the flood myth came from Mesopotamia.  Maybe monotheism came from Zoraster.

I'd like to talk about "Exodus." Did you see then program Exodus Decoded last summer?  Some very new ideas about the Hyksos, Hewbrews, the ten plagues and the parting of the Red (or Reed) Sea.

It doesn't actually fit the criteria of this topic, but do you have any thoughts on that?

[Majeston]

author=Trent
I don't see how mythology couldn't be the first religion, Maejston, given that religion, by it's very nature simply implies, worship of something.

myth - a traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people

story - a piece of fiction that narrates a chain of related events; "he writes stories for the magazines"


mythology - myths collectively; the body of stories associated with a culture or institution or person


Truth
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
a. Reality; actuality.
b. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.


The FIRST religion was Truth,  not myth


The realization of religion never has been, and never will be, dependent on great learning or clever logic. It is spiritual insight, and that is just the reason why some of the world's greatest religious teachers, even the prophets, have sometimes possessed so little of the wisdom of the world. Religious faith is available alike to the learned and the unlearned.

Religion must ever be its own critic and judge; it can never be observed, much less understood, from the outside. Your only assurance of a personal God consists in your own insight as to your belief in, and experience with, things spiritual. To all of your fellows who have had a similar experience, no argument about the personality or reality of God is necessary, while to all other men who are not thus sure of God no possible argument could ever be truly convincing.


Truth is the basis of science and philosophy, presenting the intellectual foundation of religion.

[cleasterwood]

Again, I am one who firmly believes that every myth contains some amount of truth to it.  Myths are based on some truth, some where in the myth is the truth.  Religion is it's own myth.  Each culture has it's own beliefs and accept them on faith as truth.  Stories can be true, not all are fictional.  A biography is still a story but it is about someone's life.  "Inspired by a true story."

Truth:
A fact that has been verified- (Verified. You cannot verify faith or religion or myth.)
Conformity to reality or actuality (Conformity is the key word here.  Still doesn't make it true.)
A true statement
The quality of being near to the true value

Truth is the basis of science and philosophy, presenting the intellectual foundation of religion.

Science is based on speculation before it is confirmed as fact and can be called truth.  Prove the big bang, prove God exists.  No one can we can only speculate and hope we're right.  Philosophy is as you say, but it still a contemplation of faith.  Only faith keeps religion alive.

Religion:
A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
An institution to express belief in a divine power

The myths are the stories of supernatural powers that control human destiny and they are institutions that express belief in the divine.  Just like we do, they named an attribute of nature, gave it a face, and worshiped it.

I don't see how mythology couldn't be the first religion, Maejston, given that religion, by it's very nature simply implies, worship of something.

Cleasterwood, we all know that the flood myth came from Mesopotamia.  Maybe monotheism came from Zoraster.

I'd like to talk about "Exodus." Did you see then program Exodus Decoded last summer?  Some very new ideas about the Hyksos, Hewbrews, the ten plagues and the parting of the Red (or Reed) Sea.

It doesn't actually fit the criteria of this topic, but do you have any thoughts on that?

I saw the Ten Plagues and the scientific (I use that term loosely) explanations behind it.  I think the only one they couldn't explain was the death of the first born child.  I'm not so versed in the Exodus as it isn't really my area of interest.  Creation myths, myths about some of the kings, but particularly I'm a 4th Dynasty woman.  I have an affinity for the Pyramids and the Sphinx.  I also enjoy a little Atlantis here and there.    I suppose I could give you my thoughts if you have something specific you'd like to know my opinion about.  I will have to get a chance to watch Exodus Decoded so we can talk about it. 

[Tom Hebert]

I'm thinking that the first religion may have been sun worship.  The gods and goddesses were probably added later.

[Trent]

Mythology, any body of stories linked to the religious life of a culture

Hi Tom, it may have been sun worship, judging by the "evidence" it was probably a fertility cult of some type (Venus statues).

Cleasterwood, I can undnerstand why you won't want to get into Exodus Decoded if you had never seen it.

Let's get into Egyptian gods. I have heard that the reason why there are no bodies buried beneath the Giza Pyramids is because they were built in memory of the God-kings, and that Osiris himself is actually buried beneath the Great Pyramid.  Any thoughts on that?

[Bianca]

Tom Hebert -quote:


"I'm thinking that the first religion may have been sun worship."



Yes! And ASTROLOGY the First and Oldest Profession.

[Imhotep]

Exodus Decoded appears tonight on the History Channel.

Christianity has borrowed much from the myths of the Egyptians.  Not only does the ressurection mirror the rebirth of Osiris, but the iconography of Isis and Horus equate with the iconography of Madonna and child.

When Christ was crucified, it was said that Mary Magdalene fled to Egypt.

[cleasterwood]

Cleasterwood, I can undnerstand why you won't want to get into Exodus Decoded if you had never seen it.
Let's get into Egyptian gods. I have heard that the reason why there are no bodies buried beneath the Giza Pyramids is because they were built in memory of the God-kings, and that Osiris himself is actually buried beneath the Great Pyramid.  Any thoughts on that?

Ok, Trent, I did catch the last hour of Exodus Decoded, but I'd like you to post it in a more appropriate forum for discussion.  I have to say it was very interesting and I've always believed that there was proof somewhere in Egypt, which they found.   I still think the Bible is just the history of the Hebrew people and still don't believe that Moses saw God.  Maybe it was a hallucination caused by some unknown contagen in the air or like at Delphi, something in the spring water atop the Mount Siani caused hallacunations.  So, find the appropriate forum and we can get cracking on it. 

Personally, I think the Great Pyramid was a place of initiation and never intended to hold a body in the main structure.  First off the sarcophagus in the GP is rather small and not large enough to hold the Pharaoh's coffin. It had to be moved so people who wanted to lay inside it didn't have strange 'visions' any more.  There is something very powerful inside the GP.    In my opinion, Khufu would have been wealthy enough to have a massive sarcophagus built for his body.  It took a  lot of money to build the GP, if he even built it at all.  Now there is a very likely possibility that there is a body in some cavity underneath the GP that has yet to be discovered.  It's merely speculation as to whose body is buried there.  It could be Osiris, but I think it's most likely Khufu's body.

Sun Worship:  Those who first worshipped the sun had to create some myth to substantiate their reasons for worship.  Worship leads to the creation of mythology which in turn leads to religion & 'religious' laws .

Ok, back to the Gods of Egypt.  Yes, Imhotep (did you know that Em Hotep means "in peace"?) the parallels between the Triad of Osiris, Isis, and Horus and the Christian Triad are astonishing but so too are the other parallels with other parts of the Bible.  It just further solidifies the fact that Christians took their beliefs from older texts of other countries.  Not only can you find similarities with the Egyptians, but the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Assyrians as well.   See this page for a nice table of similarities between Horus and Jesus.  http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Also see http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html 
13. A text from the Egyptian Book of Night reads:
To come out of the Netherworld, to rest in the Morning Barge, to navigate the Abyss until the hour of Re, She who sees the beauty of her Lord, to make transformations in Khepri, to rise to the horizon, to enter the mouth, to come out of the vulva, to burst forth out of the Gate of the Horizon of the Hour, She who lifts up the beauty of Ra in order to make live men, all cattle, all worms he has created.
The Ancient Egyptian text is very similar to Genesis 1:24, where God says,

Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing ...

15.  St. John’s Gospel begins,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Egyptian Book of the Coming Forth by Day (commonly known as the Book of the Dead), the oldest written text in the world, contains a strikingly parallel passage,
I am the Eternal, I am Ra ... I am that which created the Word ... I am the Word ...

Pritchard's book is so full of parallels that it's over 1500 pages and the size of a large atlas.  Unfortunately, my library only has a reference copy.   

[Tom Hebert]

Sun Worship:  Those who first worshipped the sun had to create some myth to substantiate their reasons for worship.  Worship leads to the creation of mythology which in turn leads to religion & 'religious' laws .

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here, Cleasterwood.  Why would the ancients need to create a myth before worshiping the sun?  Wouldn't it be obvious even to prehistoric man that the sun is the source of all life on earth?

[cleasterwood]

Not necessarily, Tom.  They may or maynot have known the sun was our source of life. 

Think about it this way:  You're one of the first humans and you can't quite understand why the sun rises every day, but it does rise.  You don't know yet that you're even on a planet revolving around a star because you don't know that the earth beneath you is a planet or round for that matter.  Humans have a way of adding human aspects to innanimate objects.  So you label the earth beneath your feet.  She is called earth, ever beneath your feet.  Then you name the ball of fire that rises each morning.  Now you have two distinct labels for each element, but its only because humans feel the need to give human attributes to them.  You now have a mother beneath your feet called earth because that's where you live and you have the father, who rises every day because he makes things grow.  Now you start to think about why these things are here and you come up with a mythology.  You figure you have to mate male/female to have children and so the sun and earth must have to do the same.  AT this point you have created the basics of a mythological story.  You build this mythology up over a couple of generations and then some smart ass comes along and says "The Father who rises in the morning has come to me in a dream" or whatever.  This ONE person, with this claim of the divine, then creates a religion with laws based on this mythology. 

Humans must have something to have faith in.  It's just our nature.  I don't know if you get what I'm trying to say, but maybe it will help.

Blessed be,
Lynn