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the Crusades (Original)

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Ceneca
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« Reply #135 on: December 31, 2007, 03:35:32 am »

+Faith+

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   posted 12-26-2005 03:45 PM                       
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George,

Byzantine power was waning at the time of the Crusades while Muslim power was on the rise. A case can be made that, had the Crusades not been enacted, most of Europe would have fallen to the Muslims, one way or another and the rest of our history would have occurred very differently.

I look at things from a western perspetive, I make no apologies for that. Many Muslims, even if they are educated in the west, only see things from their own point of view, too. Both cultures should try harder to understand one another.

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"Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD, the God of truth."

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« Reply #136 on: December 31, 2007, 03:35:52 am »

Ishtar

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  posted 12-26-2005 04:05 PM                       
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[ 01-04-2006, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2007, 03:36:16 am »

Ishtar

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The Crusades were undertaken because the Muslims, storming out of Arabia in the seventh century, had conquered, crushed, and ultimately eliminated what had been blooming Christian cultures in the Near East, North Africa, and elsewhere, in the process crushing the Zoroastrian religion in Persia, and had begun to do so again with their conquest of Roman (Byzantine) Asia Minor after the battle of Mantzikert in 1071. After Mantzikert, the East Roman Emperor Alexis I Comnenus appealed to the West for help, and the First Crusade soon followed.

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« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2007, 03:36:40 am »

Ishtar

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  posted 12-26-2005 05:30 PM                       
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I had no idea what PSYOPS meant.

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« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2007, 03:36:59 am »

Heather Delaria

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   posted 12-26-2005 06:42 PM                       
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PSYOPS - that would mean acts that armies perform to make other armies terrified of them.

Hit the dumb button by accident before I was ready to post thos.

[ 12-26-2005, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Heather Delaria ]

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« Reply #140 on: December 31, 2007, 03:37:24 am »

Heather Delaria

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Here you go, Ishtar:


quote:
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Muslims did not see the Franks as merely invaders and warriors. The Franks were known for being bloodthirsty, for breaking oaths and treaties, and for indiscriminate slaughter of people without consideration of their age, gender or religion. The crusaders often killed Christians and Jews along with Muslims. In one or two famous incidents, a few Franks publicly barbequed human limbs and ate human flesh -- earning all Franks a reputation as cannibals.
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http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/relstds/columns/2003/Mar30-03.htm

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« Reply #141 on: December 31, 2007, 03:37:49 am »

 
Brooke

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Nice to know they took their religion that seriously.

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« Reply #142 on: December 31, 2007, 03:38:11 am »

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quote:
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Weren't the Saracens,pirates?
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You're partly right, Ishtar. Saracen is the name commonly given to Mediterranean pirates.

It was the name used to describe all the Arabs during the Crusades, however.

In Christian polemical writing against Islam, the name meant "those empty of Sarah" or "not from Sarah," as Arabs were descended from Hagar in Biblical genealogies.

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« Reply #143 on: December 31, 2007, 03:38:33 am »

Ishtar

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The Crusades are one of the most misunderstood aspects of medieval history, frequently used (and misused) in the propaganda of modern times.

Here is a list of books,apparently there is a lot of misinformation out here, nawwwwwwwwwww? lol,


http://historymedren.about.com/od/crusades/tp/crusadebooks.htm

.

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0003/opinion/riley-smith.html

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« Reply #144 on: December 31, 2007, 03:38:50 am »

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Before heading off to the Jerusalem crusades in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, some Europeans "prepared themselves" through violent outbreaks of anti–Judaism in France, Germany, and England. During the crusades launched against fellow Christians or heretics, the most unpleasant examples of loss of discipline and control took place (the sacks of Constantinople in 1204 and of Béziers in 1209 spring to mind). If we are going to express contrition for the behavior of the crusaders, it is not so much to the Muslims that we should apologize, but to the Jews and to our fellow Christians.
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« Reply #145 on: December 31, 2007, 03:39:17 am »

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I totally agree, those were terrible events. No question that the adherence to what people see as their religion has done some bad in the world.

But it has done an awful lot of good, too. Bad as the world sometimes is, and was, had Jesus not entered it, we wouldn't even have the hope for it to get better.

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« Reply #146 on: December 31, 2007, 03:39:54 am »

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Yes, those events are terrible. So is our present attitude that the Al-Qa'ida sprung as a natural expression of Arab resentment of the West. Islam is a very peaceful and tolerant religion. It always had good relationships with the Jews for the first thousand years of its existence.

The Muslim Brotherhood,
The Nazis and Al-Qa'ida
Al-Qa'ida is the product of an Arab fascist group that was set up in the 1920s, funded by Adolf Hitler, used by British, French and American Intelligence after WWII, and later was supported by the Saudis and reactivated by the CIA.

It always seems a little strange to have an Irish Catholic talking about Yom Ha'Shoah. I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, DC, and that's where the US Government buries its secrets—literally.
There are 20 vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organised as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.
I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent—a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.
What do you do when you want to go public with a story like this one? You call up 60 Minutes. We had a great time. Mike Wallace gave me 30 minutes on his show. For a long time, it was the longest segment that 60 Minutes ever did. When the episode about Nazis in America went on the air back in 1982, it caused a minor national uproar. Congress demanded hearings, Mike Wallace got the Emmy award, and my family got the death threats. It was a great trip.
Then a funny thing happened. Over the last 25 years, every retired spy in the US and Canada and England all wanted me to be their lawyer—for free, of course. So I had 500 clients; they paid me a dollar apiece. So I am the worst-paid lawyer in America, but among the better employed.
Let me give you an example. This year a friend of mine from the CIA, named Bob Baer, wrote a very good book about Saudi Arabia and terrorism; it's called Sleeping with the Devil.1 I was reading the book and I got about a third of the way through and I stopped. Bob was writing about when he worked for the CIA and how bad the files were. He said, for example, the files for the Muslim Brotherhood were almost nothing. There were just a few newspaper clippings.
I called Bob up and said, "Bob, that's wrong. The CIA has enormous files on the Muslim Brotherhood, volumes of them. I know because I read them a quarter of a century ago."
He said, "What do you mean?"
Here's how you can find all of the missing secrets about the Muslim Brotherhood—and you can do this, too.
I said, "Bob, go to your computer and type two words into the search part. Type the word 'Banna', B-a-n-n-a."
He said, "Yeah."
"Type in 'Nazi'."
Bob typed the two words in, and out came 30 to 40 articles from around the world. He read them and called me back and said, "Oh my God, what have we done?"
What I'm doing today is doing what I'm doing now: I'm educating a new generation in the CIA [about the fact] that the Muslim Brotherhood was a fascist organisation that was hired by Western Intelligence and evolved over time into what we today know as Al- Qa'ida [Al-Qaeda].

A brief history of the Muslim Brotherhood
Here's how the story began. In the 1920s there was a young Egyptian named [Hassan] Al-Banna. And Al-Banna formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Banna was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930s Al-Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence.
The Arab Nazis had much in common with the new Nazi doctrines: they hated Jews; they hated democracy; and they hated the Western culture. It became the official policy of the Third Reich to secretly develop the Muslim Brotherhood as the "fifth parliament", an army inside Egypt.
When war broke out, the Muslim Brotherhood promised in writing that they would rise up and help General Rommel and make sure that no English or American soldier was left alive in Cairo or Alexandria.
The Muslim Brotherhood began to expand in scope and influence during World War II. They even had a Palestinian section headed by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, one of the great bigots of all time. Here, too, was a man...the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the Muslim Brotherhood representative for Palestine. These were undoubtedly Arab Nazis. The Grand Mufti, for example, went to Germany during the war and helped recruit an international SS division of Arab Nazis. They based it in Croatia and called it the Handzar Muslim Division, but it was to become the core of Hitler's new army of Arab fascists that would conquer the Arabian Peninsula and, from there, on to Africa—grand dreams.
At the end of World War II, the Muslim Brotherhood was wanted for war crimes. Their German Intelligence handlers were captured in Cairo. The whole net was rolled up by the British Secret Service.
Then a horrible thing happened. Instead of prosecuting the Nazis—the Muslim Brotherhood—the British Government hired them. They brought all the fugitive Nazi war criminals of Arab and Muslim descent into Egypt, and for three years trained them on a special mission. The British Secret Service wanted to use the fascists of the Muslim Brotherhood to strike down the infant state of Israel in 1948. Only a few people in the Mossad know this, but many of the members of the Arab armies and terrorist groups that tried to strangle the infant State of Israel were the Arab Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Britain was not alone. The French Intelligence Service cooperated by releasing the Grand Mufti and smuggling him to Egypt, so all of the Arab Nazis came together. So, from 1945 to 1948, the British Secret Service protected every Arab Nazi it could, but failed to quash the State of Israel.
What the British did, then, was they sold the Arab Nazis to the predecessor of what became the CIA. It may sound stupid, it may sound evil, but it did happen. The idea was that we were going to use the Arab Nazis in the Middle East as a counterweight to the Arab communists. Just as the Soviet Union was funding Arab communists, we would fund the Arab Nazis to fight against them. And lots of secret classes took place. We kept the Muslim Brotherhood on our payroll.
But the Egyptians became nervous. Nasser ordered all of the Muslim Brotherhood out of Egypt or be imprisoned and executed. So, during the 1950s, the CIA evacuated the Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood to Saudi Arabia. Now, when they arrived in Saudi Arabia, some of the leading lights of the Muslim Brotherhood, like [Dr Abdullah] Azzam, became the teachers in the madrassas, the religious schools. And there they combined the doctrines of Nazism with this weird Islamic cult, Wahhabism.
Everyone thinks that Islam is this fanatical religion, but it is not. They think that Islam—the Saudi version of Islam—is typical, but it's not. The Wahhabi cult has been condemned as a heresy more than 60 times by the Muslim nations. But when the Saudis got wealthy, they bought a lot of silence. This is a very harsh cult. Wahhabism was only practised by the Taliban and in Saudi Arabia—that's how extreme it is. It really has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is a very peaceful and tolerant religion. It always had good relationships with the Jews for the first thousand years of its existence.
For the Saudis, there was a ruler in charge of Saudi Arabia, and they were [providing] the new home of the Muslim Brotherhood. Fascism and extremism were mingled in these schools [the madrassas]. And there was a young student who paid attention: Azzam's student was named Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden was taught by the Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood who had emigrated to Saudi Arabia.

The CIA and Al-Qa'ida
In 1979, the CIA decided to take the Arab Nazis out of cold storage. The Russians had invaded Afghanistan, so we told the Saudis that we would fund them if they would bring all of the Arab Nazis together and ship them off to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. We had to rename them. We couldn't call them the Muslim Brotherhood because that was too sensitive a name. Its Nazi past was too known. So we called them Maktab al-Khadamat al-Mujahidin, the MAK.
And the CIA lied to Congress and said they didn't know who was on the payroll in Afghanistan, except the Saudis. But it was not true. A small section of the CIA knew perfectly well that we had once again hired the Arab Nazis and that we were using them to fight our secret wars.
Azzam and his assistant, Osama bin Laden, rose to some prominence from 1979 to 1989, and they won the war. They drove the Russians out of Afghanistan. Our CIA said, "We won—let's go home!", and we left this army of Arab fascists in the field of Afghanistan.
The Saudis didn't want [them] to come back. The Saudis started paying bribes to Osama bin Laden and his followers to stay out of Saudi Arabia. Now the MAK was split in half. Azzam was mysteriously assassinated, apparently by Osama bin Laden himself. The radical group—the most radical of the merge of the Arab fascists and religious extremists—Osama called Al-Qa'ida. But to this day, there are branches of the Muslim Brotherhood all through Al-Qa'ida.
Osama bin Laden's second-in-command, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, came from the Egyptian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood—the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the result of a Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
There are many flavours and branches, but they are all Muslim Brotherhoods. There is one in Israel. The organisation you know as Hamas is actually a secret chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood. When Israel assassinated Sheik [Ahmed] Yassin a month ago [March 22, 2004], the Muslim Brotherhood published his obituary in a Cairo newspaper in Arabic and revealed that he was actually the secret leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza.
So the Muslim Brotherhood became this poison that spread throughout the Middle East, and on 9/11 it began to spread around the world.
I know this sounds like some sort of a sick fantasy, but go to your computer and type in the words "Banna" and the word "Nazi", and you will see all of the articles come up. Those are all the pieces of information that the CIA was trying to hide from its employees. It did not want them to know the awful past. In 1984, when I was exposing European Nazis on the CIA payroll, at the same time they were trying to hide from Congress the fact that they had Arab Nazis back on the payroll to fight the Russians—a stupid and corrupt program.
So, when Bob Baer studied his files, he was just stunned. A whole generation...the current CIA people know nothing about this. And believe me, the current generation CIA are good and decent Americans and I like them a lot. They're trying to do a good job, but part of their problem is their files have been shredded. All of these secrets have to come out.

Saudi charities exposed
So, of course, my clients in the intelligence community said, "Well, what are you doing?" They gave me an example. They said, "Here's how the Saudis finance these groups. The Saudis have established a group of charities on a street in Virginia. It's 555 Grove Street, Herndon, Virginia."
So I said, "Okay, the Saudis are terrorists, so what?"
"These charities fund Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizballah, Al-Qa'ida. The Saudis are getting tax deductions for terrorism. They have set up front groups so all the terrorist groups in the US and the front groups get the Saudi money as a charitable donation."
I said, "You're kidding me."
"Nope."
And they told me that right near where I lived in Tampa, Florida, was one of the leading terrorists in the world. There were these two professors at the University of South Florida. One had just left and was now in Syria, and he was the world head of Islamic Jihad. His number two, the head of Islamic Jihad in the Western hemisphere, was Dr Sami Al-Arian, who is still employed as a professor at the University of South Florida.
"You've got to be kidding. This can't be true."
Yes, these guys are raising money all across America and shipping it to Syria to go down to Palestine, the Palestinian areas, and hire suicide bombers to kill Jews. They sent me the videotapes. There was Professor Al-Arian on stage and one of his friends gets up and says, "Now, who will give me $500 to kill a Jew? There are people standing by in Jerusalem who will go out in the street and stab a Jew with a knife, but we need $500." And he said, "All of this money will go to the Islamic Committee for Palestine." And that is the front group in the United States for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
So I had all my friends in the FBI and CIA send in these files.
I said, "Why haven't you prosecuted this guy? You've known about him since 1989."
"We'd love to. We've tried to prosecute him but we were told we couldn't touch him because he gets all of his money from the Saudis, and we are all under orders not to do anything to embarrass the Saudi Government."
I said, "I don't mind embarrassing them."
You know what I did? I donated money to the charity that was the terrorist fund, because under Florida law that gave me the right to sue the charity to find out where my money was going. It was hilarious.
In early March 2002, I drafted a long lawsuit exposing Professor Sami Al-Arian, naming all the crimes he'd committed, all the bombings in Israel, the fundraising in America linked with terrorism. I mentioned how his money got to him from the Saudis and how the Saudis had convinced our government not to prosecute him for political reasons.
Because of my high-level security clearances, everything I write is sort of classified material and has to be sent back to the government before publication, for censorship. So I sent my long lawsuit complaint to the CIA, and they loved it.
They said, "Oh, great. We don't like the Saudis, either. Go sue them."
Three days later, two FBI agents showed up at my door, saying, "You know, there are only 21 people in the US government that knew some of this information, and now you're twenty-two. How did you find out?"
I said, "I'm sorry, I can't tell you: attorney-client privilege." That's why my clients pay me $1.00 each.
The day before I went to file the lawsuit, I got a frantic phone call from the United States Department of Justice. They said, "John, please don't file the lawsuit tomorrow. We really are going to raid these Saudi charities. We're going to close them down. Just give us more time."
"Oh yeah, you're going to raid them. That's what you told me in January, and again in February, and now it's March. You want more time? I'll give you until 4.00 o'clock tomorrow. I'm filing my complaint at 10.00 am, so that at 4.00 pm I'm going to release the address of the Saudi charities."
Back to tomorrow. I filed my lawsuit at 10.00 o'clock, and told the press I was going to hold something back for a little bit.
At 10.15 am, the US Government launched Operation Green Quest, a massive raid on all the Saudi charities in homes and businesses, and in one hour we shut down the entire Saudi money-laundering network in America.
From March 20, 2002 to the present, the government has found more and more evidence seized in those archives in that single raid that day. The evidence was so compelling that Professor Al-Arian is no longer giving his speeches. He is now in federal prison awaiting trial. His accomplice, [Sameeh] Hammoudeh, has also been indicted. Some 32 different people have been indicted in the United States as a direct result of these efforts. But not the Saudis—not the Saudis.
A month after I filed my lawsuit against Al-Arian, I did it: I caused some trouble. I invited 40 of the top trial lawyers in America to come down to St Petersburg, Florida. Boy, did I have a deal for them. I wanted them to put up millions of dollars of their own money—I'm poor, I had no money to give them—but I wanted to do something for America. These are lawyers like Ron Motley, who had won billions of dollars in lawsuits against the tobacco industry and the asbestos industry.
I said, "What I want you to do is look at the evidence I've collected. It's the same Saudi banks and charities that funded Sami Al-Arian that also funded Al-Qa'ida."
I said, "I want you to bring a class action in Federal Court in Washington on behalf of everyone who died on September 11 [2001]. I'm going to work for free and collect all the evidence, introduce you to the experts, provide all the exhibits and documents...and we have to do this for America."
The lawyers studied all the documents I collected, and on August 15, 2002 they filed the largest class-action lawsuit in American history in the Federal District Court in Washington, DC, asking for one trillion dollars' damages against the Saudis. The lawsuit said essentially that all these Saudi banks had one thing in common: they were bribing Osama bin Laden 300 million dollars a year to stay out of Saudi Arabia and go blow up someone else.
Well, on 9/11 we found out we were someone else. The Saudis had to pay for their negligence. So, that lawsuit is coming along very well.

Learning from the past
More and more people in the CIA and FBI are sort of using me as a back channel to get out information. So, believe it or not, they've actually given me my own TV show now on Sunday mornings on Fox TV nationwide. I'm on at 11.20 Eastern Standard Time. And ABC Radio has given me a national radio program, but I'm on at 10.30 at night and it's past your bedtime.
What I've become in my old age is a teacher. Twenty-five years ago I was a lot younger, a lot thinner, but now every day I get 500 to 1,000 emails from honest men and women around the world from the intelligence community.
We have to end the evil in this world. We have to recognise that Al-Qa'ida simply didn't spring up on its own. The evil route was Nazism. The Al-Qa'ida doctrine is the same as the Arab Nazis held. They hate Jews, they hate democracy and they hate Westerners for Western culture. Al-Qa'ida is nothing more than the religious expression of Arab fascism. We allowed this branch of the Nazi trunk to survive, to flourish, and it has come back to haunt us.
We must do a better job. Look at these children. They are our legacy. If we are to keep our children safe, we must teach them the lessons of the past. Every generation should know what these candles mean: not only that one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the world really happened, but that the evil that caused it—Nazism—survived because we didn't fight hard enough. We didn't finish the job.
But we must tell our children that in every generation the men and women of America have stood side by side with our Jewish, Christian and Moslem brothers. We have risen up together against hatred. America is united now.
We will win the war on terror, and we will finish the job that these soldiers and survivors started more than a half-century ago. We must set the standard that to teach a child to hate is the worst form of child abuse. We must work together to end racism in our children's lifetime. We must teach our children to remember the Holocaust and be proud, so proud of those who survived and inspired us with their courage. In their name, in their honour, let us go forward and fight together.
Never again! ∞

About the Speaker:
John Loftus is a former US Justice Department prosecutor who lives in St Petersburg, Florida. As a young US Army officer, he helped train Israelis in a covert operation that turned the tide of battle in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. During the Carter and Reagan administrations, he investigated CIA cases and Nazi war criminals for the US Attorney-General. As a private attorney, he works pro bono to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. Loftus is Vice Chair of the Florida Holocaust Museum's Executive Committee. He is the co-author (with Mark Aarons) of The Secret War Against the Jews (St Martin's Press, 1994) and Unholy Trinity: The Vatican, the Nazis and the Swiss Banks (St Martin's Press, 1992, 1998). His forthcoming book is titled Prophets of Terror: Jonathan Pollard and Peace in the Middle East. He can be contacted via his website, http://www.john-loftus.com.
This speech by John Loftus was given to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day (Yom Ha'Shoah) on April 18, 2004. It was first published in Jewish Community News, August 2004. We downloaded this version from the website http://www.navyseals.com/ community/articles/article.cfm?id=4328 and have slightly edited it.

Extracted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 12, Number 6 (October - November 2005)
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia. editor@nexusmagazine.com
Telephone: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381
From our web page at: www.nexusmagazine.com

From a speech by John Loftus (former US Justice Department prosecutor) to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day, (Yom Ha'Shoah), April 18, 2004
First published in Jewish Community News, August 2004
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« Reply #147 on: December 31, 2007, 03:40:24 am »

George Erikson
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   posted 01-04-2006 04:58 PM                       
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Faith,

You posted a "timeline" earlier that had orginally been posted by Ishtar. Most of it was about Europe and the Crusades. However, one entry caught my eye..."0900 Mayans emigrate to the Yucatan Peninsula".

Mayans were at Muyil and Coba 100 BC, they were at Dzilbilchaltun even earlier. Please read the following from the Mexican ed of the Miami Herald:


Ancient Maya ball court discovered near Mérida
Wire services
El Universal
Miércoles 04 de enero de 2006
Miami Herald, página 1

The discovery was made during an excavation for a housing development and could give important clues on Maya civilization

MÉRIDA, Yucatán.- Archeologists discovered a 2,500-year-old court used for the ball game that played a central role in the religion and royal ceremonies of the Mayas.

Fernando Acevedo and Donato Martín España, researchers with the National Institute of Anthropology and History, said the court is 25 meters long (82 feet) and 4.5 meters (15 feet) wide and lies about 12 kilometers (7.5 miles) from Mérida.

The discovery took place in the course of excavation for a housing development, whose plan will now have to be modified, said the top land-use official in Yucatán state, José Carlos Guzmán Alcocer.

Acevedo and Martín España said they have encountered in the area some 1,500 mounds that have yielded important data about the Maya civilization.


Martín España said the discovery of the ball court, which he described as 70 percent intact, confirmed that the Mayas of the Mérida region attained a level of development comparable to the Mayan city-state of Tabasco, Guatemala and Oaxaca.


The ball game was common to several Mesoamerican cultures, and the earliest known courts date from as early as 1500 B.C.


The game illustrated the Maya account of the creation of the sun and moon, said to have taken place after a match in which the gods Hunahpu and Ixbalanque fought lords of the underworld.

© 2005 Copyright El Universal-El Universal Online

Merida is in the north central part of the Yucatan. If the Maya built this ballcourt on the very first day they settled in the Yucatan, the 2,500-year-old Maya ballcourt puts the Maya in the Yucatan about 1400 years before your "timeline."

My question is, "If the timeline is so wrong on this event, how do we trust it on all the others?"

www.AtlantisInAmerica.com
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« Reply #148 on: December 31, 2007, 03:40:50 am »

Ishtar

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  posted 01-05-2006 06:32 AM                       
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Islam is a very peaceful and tolerant religion.


But here are some of the real wars fought by the Prophet Himself, again, as stated in Muslim web sites:

The Battle of Badr The Battle of Badr-2. The Battle of Ohod The Battle of Uhud-2 The Battle of Trench
The Banu Quraizah The Battle of Haibar The Battle of Mut'ah The Conquest of Makkah
The Battle of Hunayn The Battle of Ta'if The Battle of Tabuk Conquest of Mecca

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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« Reply #149 on: December 31, 2007, 03:41:20 am »

Ishtar

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  posted 01-05-2006 06:38 AM                       
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Ibn Jarir, in his Commentary, says that the first Verse of the Quran that enjoined the Muslims to take up arms was:

With the Battle of Badr begans a remarkable Era in the history of Islam. The emigration of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) to Medina had turned the enemies from Mecca more hostile, and they constantly kept on thinking how they could overthrow him, and put an end to Islam. The battle of Badr was the most important among the Islamic battles of Destiny. For the first time the followers of the new faith were put into a serious test. Had victory been the lot of the pagan army while the Islamic forces were still at the beginning of their developments, the faith of Islam could have come to an end. This battle laid the foundation of the Islamic State and made out of the Muslims a force to be reckoned with by the dwellers of the Arabian Peninsula.


(Quran 2:190-192 by Rodwell) And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice: And kill them wherever ye find them, and turn them out of that whereof they have dispossessed you, for temptation [to idolatry] is more grievous than slaughter: Yet fight not against them in the holy temple, until they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them [there]. This shall be the reward of the infidels. But if they desist, then verily God is Gracious, Merciful.

[ 01-05-2006, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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