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Wicca, Witchcraft & Paganism (Original)

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Author Topic: Wicca, Witchcraft & Paganism (Original)  (Read 4569 times)
Nicole Jimmelson
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 10:16:13 pm »

 
Calvin

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Puffy Ami Yume
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2008, 10:16:47 pm »

Absonite

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  posted 04-26-2005 08:37 PM                       
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Roxy,

what's with this?

"the ancient and original religion."

care to xsplain your view?
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2008, 10:17:15 pm »

 
rockessence

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Posted by me 7-27-2004

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000941;p=1

"The revival of original Hiden (perverted to "heathen) culture envisioned at the the original site of Hel 10,011 years ago, did not ultimately succeed as planned. It was a shock, following 50,000,000 years of evolution, for various brown, yellow, red and black Vaner to 9,011 years ago begin meeting distinctly arctical blonde, white-skinned, blue- or green-eyed Vaner coming from the north, often leading strange arctical animals, which had also evolved under the ice and had never before been seen by tropicals. Some additional white Aser and later Vaner were breaking with the system in Hel and, taking their supporters, going their separate ways, creating systems of leaders and followers (abandoning the guidance of a shared system wherein all are equal) and establishing very different roles and agenda concerning human harmonization with - or abandonment of - Nature's Law and the guidance of Oden, which became mispronounced and misunderstood as Odin, Woden, and other degenerations of the original.*
During a period of approximately 8,000 years, a number of individuals, bearing only partial knowledge and understanding of the original system otherwise being regenerated, turned their backs upon it. Using what knowledge they had acquired they sought to create systems of their own rather than follow in the Bock family plan. Seriously and radically reforming any and all cultural institutions they usurped, they based their edicts upon existing conditions and partial, incomplete knowledge and understanding. In some cases their inspiration was seriously sapped by their new malaise, the disease they spread with them: personal ambition, greed, and an ego-centric Oden-ignorant urge to wield un- na tor al powers over others.

On noteworthy occasions, a few of these, under faulty guidance, allowed themselves to become worshipped as "superior" or "divine" beings, "demi-gods" or "gods", a concept foreign to the Vaïnämoïnen system but one that humans will kill and die for to this day.

The Hiden pipol, those living in Hiden time, Paradiset, had neither need nor reason for any system of belief. The human family as a whole, composed of five et or branches, was given means of understanding the workings of universal laws in nature upon all life-forms sharing this planet. They could be understood in kela of life processes within the one human family culture, based upon, nurtured by and distinguished as processes rooted in Alphernas Beten, the ring of 23 sounds, invested as they are with meaning that unfolds and imparts to the entire species - with impeccable logic, honesty, and truth - the plan for human existence. (Plan means plan, recall, and Et means branch or family. Hence planet, the plan for the human et, which included all co-existing life forms upon Earth, naturally.)

The ho man family during Paradiset was neither a lofty ideal nor an intellectual abstraction but a living reality. At any given time, Aka and Ok - Matar and Alfader - were either mother and father, grandmother and grandfather, great grandmother and great-grandfather, or great-greats, to every human being alive. That is, it was a real family.

The Rot linguistic system detailing this information can now be challenged, experienced, examined and verified by any human being(s) willing and able to approach it. One can, for oneself, kela its function in the human brain, using oneself as the matrix, the laboratory, the system's fertile ground, and one can share this kela with others to distinguish between that which is na tor al (natural) - logical, honest and true, and that which is norm al - normal - unnatural, illogical, dishonest and false. In no way can the written word accomodate the majestic potential of such a positively profound, mentally "electrifying" process.

The Hiden (say "hee-den") people had no concept of a god, any god, nor any deity*. Rather, Alphernas Beten afforded to Aser profound understanding of eight powers in creation, four masculine and four feminine, manifest to human perception as, and given the names:

Hel, Bock, i, Oden, * Ra, Tor, Frej, Freja,

and upon this understanding, developed and maintained via kela of sound logic , sound logic that rings true , the breeding and information system was founded and continually renewed, taking however a very different form in the ringlands than it did inside Odenma, while yet entirely dependent on the system radiating from Odenma, from Hel, in which the pipol in each ringland played their part."

A Barker

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2008, 10:18:38 pm »

unknown

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http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/isis/iu1-10.htm
excerpt on Witches and ghosts(earthbound spirits)


"When, through vice, fearful crimes and animal passions, a disembodied spirit has fallen to the

eighth sphere -- the allegorical Hades, and the gehenna of the Bible -- the nearest to our

earth -- he can, with the help of that glimpse of reason and consciousness left to him, repent;

that is to say, he can, by exercising the remnants of his will-power, strive upward, and like a

drowning man, struggle once more to the surface.

In the Magical and Philosophical Precepts of Psellus, we find one which, warning mankind, says:

"Stoop not down, for a precipice lies below the earth,
Drawing under a descent of SEVEN steps, beneath which
Is the throne of dire necessity."*

A strong aspiration to retrieve his calamities, a pronounced desire, will draw him once more

into the earth's atmosphere.

Here he will wander and suffer more or less in dreary solitude.
His instincts will make him seek with avidity contact with living persons. . . . These spirits

are the invisible but too tangible magnetic vampires; the subjective daemons so well known to

mediaeval ecstatics, nuns, and monks, to the "witches" made so famous in the Witch-Hammer; and

to certain sensitive clairvoyants, according to their own confessions.

They are the blood-daemons of Porphyry, the larvae and lemures of the ancients; the fiendish

instruments which sent so many unfortunate and weak victims to the rack and stake.

Origen held all the daemons which possessed the demoniacs mentioned in the New Testament to be

human "spirits."

It is because Moses knew so well what they were, and how terrible were the consequences to

weak persons who yielded to their influence, that he enacted the cruel, murderous law against

such would-be "witches"; but Jesus, full of justice and divine love to humanity, healed instead

of killing them.

Subsequently our clergy, the pretended exemplars of Christian principles, followed the law of

Moses, and quietly ignored the law of Him whom they call their "one living God," by burning

dozens of thousands of such pretended "witches."


Witch! mighty name, which in the past contained the promise of ignominious death; and in the

present has but to be pronounced to raise a whirlwind of ridicule, a tornado of sarcasms! How

is it then that there have always been men of intellect and learning, who never thought that it

would disgrace their reputation for learning, or lower their dignity, to publicly affirm the

possibility of such a thing as a "witch," in the correct acceptation of the word.

One such fearless champion was Henry More, the learned scholar of Cambridge, of the

seventeenth century.
It is well worth our while to see how cleverly he handled the question.

It appears that about the year 1678, a certain divine, named John Webster, wrote Criticisms and

Interpretations of Scripture, against the existence of witches, and other "superstitions."
Finding the work "a weak and impertinent piece," Dr. More criticised it in a letter to Glanvil,

the author of Sadducismus Triumphatus, and as an appendix sent a treatise on witchcraft and

explanations of the word witch, itself.

This document is very rare, but we possess it in a fragmentary form in an old manuscript,

having seen it mentioned besides only in an insignificant work of 1820, on Apparitions, for it

appears that the document itself was long since out of print.

The words witch and wizard, according to Dr. More, signify no more than a wise man or a wise

woman. In the word wizard, it is plain at the very sight; and "the most plain and least operose

deduction of the name witch, is from wit, whose derived adjective might be wittigh or wittich,

and by contraction, afterwards witch; as the noun wit is from the verb to weet, which is, to

know.

So that a witch, thus far, is no more than a knowing woman; which answers exactly to the Latin

word saga, according to that of Festus, sagae dictae anus quae multa sciunt."


This definition of the word appears to us the more plausible, as it exactly answers the evident

meaning of the Slavonian-Russian names for witches and wizards.

The former is called vyedma, and the latter vyedmak, both from the verb to know, vedat or

vyedat; the root, moreover, being positively Sanscrit.

"Veda," says Max Muller, in his Lecture on the Vedas, "means originally knowing, or knowledge.

Veda is the same word which appears in Greek [[oida]], I know [the digamma, vau being omitted],

and in the English wise, wisdom, to wit."*

Furthermore, the Sanscrit word vidma, answering to the German wir wissen, means literally "we

know." It is a great pity that the eminent philologist, while giving in his lecture the

Sanscrit, Greek, Gothic, Anglo-Saxon, and German comparative roots of this word, has neglected

the Slavonian.


Another Russian appellation for witch and wizard, the former being purely Slavonian, is znahar

and znaharka (feminine) from the same verb znat to know.

Thus Dr. More's definition of the word, given in 1678, is perfectly correct, and coincides in

every particular with modern philology.

"Use," says this scholar, "questionless had appropriated the word to such a kind of skill and

knowledge as was out of the common road or extraordinary. Nor did this peculiarity imply any

unlawfulness.

But there was after a further restriction, in which alone now-a-days the words witch and

wizard are used.

And that is, for one that has the knowledge and skill of doing or telling things in an

extraordinary way, and that in virtue of either an express or implicit sociation or confederacy

with some bad spirits."

In the clause of the severe law of Moses, so many names are reckoned up with that of witch,

that it is difficult as well as useless to give here the definition of every one of them as

found in Dr. More's able treatise.

"There shall not be found among you any one that useth divination, or an observer of time, or

an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a

necromancer," says the text.


We will show, further on, the real object of such severity. For the present, we will remark

that Dr. More, after giving a learned definition of every one of such appellations, and showing

the value of their real meaning in the days of Moses, proves that there is a vast difference

between the "enchanters," "observers of time," etc., and a witch.

"So many names are reckoned up in this prohibition of Moses, that, as in our common law, the

sense may be more sure, and leave no room to evasion.

And that the name of 'witch' is not from any tricks of legerdemain as in common jugglers, that

delude the sight of the people at a market or fair, but that it is the name of such as raise

magical spectres to deceive men's sight, and so are most certainly witches -- women and men who

have a bad spirit in them.

'Thou shalt not suffer' mecassephah, that is, 'a witch, to live.' Which would be a law of

extreme severity, or rather cruelty, against a poor hocus-pocus for his tricks of legerdemain."

Thus, it is but the sixth appellation, that of a consulter with familiar spirits or a witch,

that had to incur the greatest penalty of the law of Moses, for it is only a witch which must

not be suffered to live, while all the others are simply enumerated as such with whom the

people of Israel were forbidden to communicate on account of their idolatry or rather religious

views and learning chiefly.

This sixth word is , shoel aub, which our English translation renders, "a consulter with

familiar spirits"; but which the Septuagint translates, [[engastrimuthos]], one that has a

familiar spirit inside him, one possessed with the spirit of divination, which was considered

to be Python by the Greeks, and obh by the Hebrews, the old serpent; in its esoteric meaning

the spirit of concupiscence and matter; which, according to the kabalists, is always an

elementary human spirit of the eighth sphere.

"Shoel obh, I conceive," says Henry More, "is to be understood of the witch herself who asks

counsel of her or his familiar. The reason of the name obh, was taken first from that spirit

that was in the body of the party, and swelled it to a protuberancy, the voice always seeming

to come out as from a bottle, for which reason they were named ventriloquists.

Ob signifies as much as Pytho, which at first took its name from the pythii vates, a spirit

that tells hidden things, or things to come.

In Acts xvi. 16, [[pneuma puthonos]], when "Paul being grieved, turned and said to that

spirit, I command thee, in the name of Jesus Christ, to come out of her, and he came out at the

same hour."

Therefore, the words obsessed or possessed are synonyms of the word witch;
nor could thispytho of the eighth sphere come out of her, unless it was a spirit distinct from

her.

And so it is that we see in Leviticus xx. 27: "A man also or woman that hath a familiar

spirit, or that is a wizard (an irresponsible jidegnoni) shall surely be put to death, they

shall stone them with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

A cruel and unjust law beyond doubt, and one which gives the lie to a recent utterance of

"Spirits," by the mouth of one of the most popular inspirational mediums of the day, to the

effect that modern philological research proves that the Mosaic law never contemplated the

killing of the poor "mediums" or witches of the Old Testament,but that the words,

"thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," meant to live by their mediumship, that is, to gain

their livelihood! An interpretation no less ingenious than novel.
Certainly, nowhere short of the source of such inspiration could we find such philological

profundity!*

"Shut the door in the face of the daemon," says the Kabala, "and he will keep running away from

you, as if you pursued him," which means, that you must not give a hold on you to such spirits

of obsession by attracting them into an atmosphere of congenial sin.

These daemons seek to introduce themselves into the bodies of the simple-minded and idiots, and

remain there until dislodged therefrom by a powerful and pure will. Jesus, Apollonius, and some

of the apostles, had the power to cast out devils, by purifying the atmosphere within and

without the patient, so as to force the unwelcome tenant to flight.

Certain volatile salts are particularly obnoxious to them; and the effect of the chemicals used

in a saucer, and placed under the bed by Mr. Varley, of London,** for the purpose of keeping

away some disagreeable physical phenomena at night, are corroborative of this great truth.

Pure or even simply inoffensive human spirits fear nothing, for having rid themselves of

terrestrial matter, terrestrial compounds can affect them in no wise; such spirits are like a

breath.

Not so with the earth-bound souls and the nature-spirits.


* In order to avoid being contradicted by some spiritualists we give verbatim the language in

question, as a specimen of the unreliability of the oracular utterances of certain "spirits."

Let them be human or elemental, but spirits capable of such effrontery may well be regarded by

occultists as anything but safe guides in philosophy, exact science, or ethics.

"It will be remembered," says Mrs. Cora V. Tappan, in a public discourse upon the "History of

Occultism and its Relations to Spiritualism" (see "Banner of Light," Aug. 26, 1876), "that the

ancient word witchcraft, or the exercise of it, was forbidden among the Hebrews. The

translation is that no witch should be allowed to live.

That has been supposed to be the literal interpretation; and acting upon that, your very pious

and devout ancestors put to death, without adequate testimony, numbers of very intelligent,

wise, and sincere persons, under the condemnation of witchcraft.

It has now turned out that the interpretation or translation should be, that no witches should

be allowed to obtain a living by the practice of their art.

That is, it should not be made a profession." May we be so bold as to inquire of the

celebrated speaker, through whom or according to what authority such a thing has ever turned

out?


It is for these carnal terrestrial larvae, degraded human spirits, that the ancient kabalists

entertained a hope of reincarnation.

But when, or how? At a fitting moment, and if helped by a sincere desire for his amendment and

repentance by some strong, sympathizing person, or the will of an adept, or even a desire

emanating from the erring spirit himself, provided it is powerful enough to make him throw off

the burden of sinful matter.

Losing all consciousness, the once bright monad is caught once more into the vortex of our

terrestrial evolution, and it repasses the subordinate kingdoms, and again breathes as a living

child.

To compute the time necessary for the completion of this process would be impossible.
Since there is no perception of time in eternity, the attempt would be a mere waste of labor.

--------------------
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2008, 10:19:07 pm »

Trevor Proffitt

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Great articles, Unknown & Rockessence.
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2008, 10:19:34 pm »

unknown

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Thanks Trevor

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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2008, 10:19:59 pm »

Trevor Proffitt

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   posted 04-30-2005 11:39 PM                       
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Sure, Unknown, do you ever practice any of this stuff?
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« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2008, 10:20:32 pm »

 
rockessence

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Trevor,

This was how the planet was before Ice-time when there was a planetary "religion"....before "gods".

Get the whole view at www.bocksaga.de and www.bocksaga.com

What about today...? People who practice wicca seem to be searching for personal power relative to nature and natural forces. This seems similar to the Hiden religion, but because the Hiden religion was a specific and strict culture with a world wide information system and sperm system it is not really possible to duplicate that today. Hiden culture was all about the production of the best children possible in order to populate the planet with perfect people. As we can all see, that time is long gone, and was destroyed by the onset of Ice-time. 55 million, 10 thousand years gone.

As I see it the important thing now is for each of us to discover our personal connection to our individual God-self, and be guided in all things by that connection.

That seems to me to be the only way of understanding the complications of this big crazy world.....

[ 05-01-2005, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

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All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2008, 10:21:11 pm »

 
unknown

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Trevor

Quote "Do you practice any of these things"

Do you mean wicca?
I don't practice Wicca but I believe in honoring God manifest in nature

As far as religion goes I am not fond of organized religion myself but believe it plays an important role in society.
I think of myself as primarily a Toaist

If you mean magic, especially anything dealing with spiritual entites...
Oh no dude, wouldn't dream of it...

These things should be left to the intitiates or shamans,

Don't know if there are any true intitiates left, but there are Masonic lodges that might teach these things like the order of Rosy Cross or the Ruscrucians

[ 05-01-2005, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 10:21:53 pm »

Heather Delaria

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Thank you for responding to my thread, everyone. I'm actually not an expert in any of this, still learning myself, so much of what everyone has added to it has been a little new to me.

As noted in one of the other thread, those who practice witchcraft have been persecuted for hundreds of years by the Christian Church, which has still to issue a formal apology. Getting into that, the history of witches and how they have been persecuted, is the direction I next would like to take this thread. Of course, anyone feel free to add whatever they want.

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-the Wiccan Rede

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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 10:22:20 pm »

Baphomet

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Well, welcome back, young Heather! I would like to see that history, although I get the feeling that it probably won't be anything that I don't already know.

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"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters." - Goya

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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 10:22:52 pm »

 
Heather Delaria

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You're kind of a scary guy, Baphomet.

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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 10:24:00 pm »

Baphomet

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Of course, it's all in the lighting, Heather...

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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2008, 10:26:54 pm »

Absonite

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rocky


quote:
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It was a shock, following 50,000,000 years of evolution, for various brown, yellow, red and black Vaner to 9,011 years ago begin meeting distinctly arctical blonde, white-skinned, blue- or green-eyed Vaner coming from the north, often leading strange arctical animals, which had also evolved under the ice and had never before been seen by tropicals
........>>>>>>


On noteworthy occasions, a few of these, under faulty guidance, allowed themselves to become worshipped as "superior" or "divine" beings, "demi-gods" or "gods", a concept foreign to the Vaïnämoïnen system but one that humans will kill and die for to this day.
The Hiden pipol, those living in Hiden time, Paradiset, had neither need nor reason for any system of belief.
........>>>>>


The Hiden (say "hee-den") people had no concept of a god, any god, nor any deity*. Rather, Alphernas Beten afforded to Aser profound understanding of eight powers in creation, four masculine and four feminine, manifest to human perception as, and given the names:
Hel, Bock, i, Oden, * Ra, Tor, Frej, Freja,
and upon this understanding, developed and maintained via kela of sound logic , sound logic that rings true .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would seem Respected Rockessence that the Bock story recognizes 2 different groups. First the pipol or evolutionary people and then the Gods arriving later. The religion then that you refer to as the original religion would be for the Pipol as evolutionary religion of nature (natural) and ignorant of the religion of the "Gods" who arrived from elsewhere and brought the truth of a real "God" with them. It would only seem "natural" that these God-men were worshipped as superior beings when in fact they were superior beings as we know from there and elsewhere and these were the same descendents of Adam & Eve from Cyprus and Iraq the home of the second garden and dating to 37,000 years ago.


.
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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2008, 10:30:09 pm »

 
rockessence

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Abs,

Here is a bit more,

"Were Adam and Eve the first people ever to exist?
Or were they Sampo and Aino?
Eel, frog and ape being the ancestors of the first human beings.
In that order.
Frog and ape swim like humans.
Ape begot a she-goat, which gave birth to Sampo and Aino, the first human beings.
That’s why goats were held so holy.
Sampo, and Aino begot Seppo Ilmarinen who was the RA, who established Ras, the human race.

This is what Bock Saga or Väinämöinen’s mythology tells us.
RA was worshipped in Egypt as the sungod, and in India as RAmayana.
But for the Asers RA was moon, it reflected the rays, the laws and information of sun, or Väinämöinen, to his son, Seppo Ilmarinen, the king, who established the human race.

The paradise flourished before the ice-age.
There the first humans appeared and created the original ”Rot” language, from natural sounds, and distributed the original information from Hel, the capital of Uden’s ringland, the land of sun, the paradise, to all people that had left it earlier to establish new centers to all continents.
(Uden=Eden?)
During the paradise-time all people were vegetarians.

They used sap, seeds and nuts for their nourishment.
Sun makes the trees to grow and produce sap which concentrates in leaves.
Sun also forms black earth, when trees die and get composed, allowing all greenery to grow.
That’s why sun was worshipped as the giver of life.
Sand, rocks and water had always been here but sun ”made” the black earth.
Here is the origin of the word paradise explained, the meaning of it.

PA (Aser’s pole, north pole) RA (Aser’s race) DI (the sperm-line) S (sun) E (oak-tree).
That is; the system of ”delivering” the sperm all the way from Lemminkäinen down to the lowest rank, and ”sacrificing” it up, in order to create good and healthy people. The sperm link, the Master Plan, the Paradise System.

Hel was the Capital of Paradise and of the then world. Now Helsinki, Finland.
Meaning ALL, or undivided, complete, holy.
From Hel the information and the sperm was delivered to all people.
The people who inhabited Hel, and Uden’s ring-land, were called ”Asers”.
All other people in surrounding ringlands were called ”Vaners”. VANtaa and UDENmaa are still close to Helsinki.

During the paradise-time the actual North Pole was exactly at Hel.
But then the North Pole was a very warm place, being the Paradise, sun shining there continuosly, because of different tilt towards sun.

Hel was established on seven hills and on seven islands.
Those seven hills can easily still be found right in the city of Helsinki.

Also those seven islands are still to be found easily, they are the ”Mustasaaret”, or Black islands.
And the orginal Zero meridian starts and goes through them, also through one round room in a museum, under which place has been a natural hole in the rock.
Also a wooden pole until 1750, to mark the actual North Pole.
A lot of traffic has been carried along that meridian, the ”know-how” of Uden and the sperm line ”ambassadors”.
The ”original” sperm came always from Hel since the then Pukki (Bock) Lemminkäinen, begot ”governors class” women to all countries.
Governors begot the next class, the Earl’s, and they in their turn farmers and they again in their turn the workers, so that actually all people were Väinämöinen’s children.
Only selected men of the lowest class were allowed to beget children, as workers.

In that way the ”core” of the people was kept healthy.
Still, not everyone was allowed to beget children, even from the upper classes.
Only the healthiest people were chosen to be mothers and fathers.
It was a great honor to be chosen as mother or father to the coming generation, highest position anyone could dream of."

Leo Nygren

End quote

Around Hel was Uden-ma and around Uden-ma were the Ring-lands which were peopled by Van pi-pol. The Vaner eventually peopled the earth, still maintaining the information and sperm systems connecting them with the All-father through a constant movement of envoys between the center,Hel, and and the hinterlands.

When the planet shifted the pole and Ice-time started, all this ended.

55 million years later, the Hiden (Aser) caught in the ice, in ICEolation, became blonde and tall, even more brilliant than before, with the knowledge of growing root vegetables, domesticated animals, and much else. Again they sent envoys to try to reconnect with the 10 kingdoms.

So this is to explain that the two had the same root.

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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