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The Question of Morality (Original)

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Amy Lewton
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« Reply #465 on: August 04, 2008, 12:01:18 am »

Allison
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   posted 07-04-2005 02:38 PM                       
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I hear you Heather. I just grow weary of having to explain myself each time I use the term "Pagan". "Heathen" is less hassle for me. I live in the middle of this fu<king bible belt full of religiously ignorant and intolerant hypocrites, 98% of which if I were to explain my beliefs it would be way over their heads anyway. I don't mind if someone comes to me to ask with genuine interest, but these narrow-minded zealots who already have their minds made up without the first scrap of understanding are not worth my time or energy. No longer will the Jehovahs come to my door because I invited them in for a cup of tea and a chat once and they were unable to answer my questions about the discrepancies and inconsistencies of their belief system so now it is funny to watch, they come into the neighbourhood and will go to each house except for mine. I think they left my house with more wuestions about their own religion than about mine. And oddly enough, out of all of the neighbourhood, it was the HEATHEN who invited them in and served refreshments and gave them the time of day. All of their fellow xtians shut the door in their faces.
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Amy Lewton
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« Reply #466 on: August 04, 2008, 12:01:41 am »

docyabut
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Christianity has many branches of ideas just as pagonism, the idea is to study them all. Who cares if anyone wants to be a pagon, to each his own.To me a pagon is someone still living in the dark ages:)
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« Reply #467 on: August 04, 2008, 12:01:48 am »

docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 07-04-2005 03:50 PM                       
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I'd have to say a decrease in morals actually leads to an increase in hope! The hope would ve for more people to have the ability to get laid!

Pagon some day in your life it just won`t happen. Sickness, or old age if your luckey will do you in. There really are more important things in life besides getting laid :0)
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Amy Lewton
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« Reply #468 on: August 04, 2008, 12:01:58 am »

ancientspirit7

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MoraliI is a moral way of living your beliefs. If you believe it is immoral to be violent and lustful. Then, if you voted for war with IRAQ, and have me and my brothers go kill others, for the Presidents friends profits, but on the other hand, say it is wrong to murder an unborn child, but also say it is good to make the rich richer, and the poor poorer, are you being moral, if that is how you believe morality is, you are very misguided. I believe in helping others, not destroying others, if we are attacked, yes we will retaliate in kind, but only to those who attacked us! The Taliban, and AlQuida, and Osama Bin Laden, not anyhone else, unless you want to add the Saudi's since most of the Terrorists that attacked us were Saudi's. Also isn't the Saudi's like brothers to Bush, anyway that is what he has said. So if you want morality, get off your pious but, and start acting moral! From a military man, who knows what a morale code is.

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R G S

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« Reply #469 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:10 am »

ennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-04-2005 10:51 PM                       
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Good point, what were doing attacking Iraq? Weren't most of those hijackers Saudis? Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia instead?
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Amy Lewton
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« Reply #470 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:20 am »

Nomad

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   posted 07-04-2005 11:09 PM                       
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I was all for Afghanistan (although it was handled poorly, let's face it), but Iraq was/is/will always be a giant waste of time, money and bodies.
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« Reply #471 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:34 am »

cydonia

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   posted 07-05-2005 03:56 AM                       
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quote:
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Weren't most of those hijackers Saudis? Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia instead?
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The answer should be self evident...because we dont want EVERY muslim on earth to hate us. Right now we only have to deal with SOME muslims hating us. Bomb their version of the Vatican and they'll ALL hate us.



quote:
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I was all for Afghanistan (although it was handled poorly, let's face it),
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That's how you you can recognize someone who has no real idea how warfare actually works. Because Afghanistan was handled almost flawlessly, in terms of real time warfare. Hindsight may show something different to the novice, but the person who thinks in real time knows better. That's why comments like this are never followed by any useful advice. Its like a Nostradamus quatrain....It can mean whatever you want it to mean after the fact.

The actual military phase of Afghanistan and Iraq are going to be studied for decades in war college's around the world. As the genius operations they were.

You can argue the post-military phase was handled improperly, but you can't argue that both those countries were, initially, beaten into submission and, in any context, taken. We just decided to rebuild rather than leave.

That's where the criticism comes in...the post-war, not the actual fighting phase. If anything, we didn't kill enough people in the first phase of the war.
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« Reply #472 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:53 am »

Nomad

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   posted 07-05-2005 04:33 AM                       
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You don't know what you're talking about. And frankly, your comments have more of the tone of a right wing hack as opposed to anything objective.

Bush went into Afghanistan with minimal troop strength because he already had his eye on Iraq. We didn't accomplish our objectives, the Taliban are still there, waiting to return to power, and, if the goal was to get Bin Laden, well, of course, we didn't succeed.

No offense meant to the military, but to the planning. As I said, I was all for the war in Afghanistan, it just wasn't handled that well. And it wasn't.

As for Iraq, it's true we captured the country very quickly. It's also true that we moved so fast that we bypassed whole areas without securing them which is why we had so much trouble with supply troops being ambushed and killed. We needed more troops to occupy the country, still do if we plan to stay there, and the whole experence was not worth the time, blood or effort. They'll be studying that in military schools as an example of what NOT to do.

History is not going to regard either of these ventures favorably. Both countries are teetering on the brink of civil war.

A shame that a novice like yourself is apparently so blinded by his politics that he can't see this.
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« Reply #473 on: August 04, 2008, 12:03:02 am »

Heather Delaria

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   posted 07-09-2005 07:44 AM                       
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Allison,

Actually, I can see where you are coming from on the whole "pagan, "heathen" thing myself. I'll admit to being a little offended at first on your opinion on Wicca, since that religion happens to be closer to me, but I think that the bottom line for both of us, and a lot of the others I see here, is that Christianity is not the answer. The religion is something basically geared to men and, in it's long and storied history, has ended up doing at least as much harm as good. I find it personally offensive here how a lot of Conservatives here bash things like Wicca and feminism, while readily excusing the sins of their own church, since so much of their own history was only written through the blood of others.

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"An it harm none, do what ye will."
-the Wiccan Rede

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« Reply #474 on: August 04, 2008, 12:03:14 am »

Dawn Moline

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   posted 07-25-2005 11:00 PM                       
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I think, at last, I have found the true value of morality. Let others devalue you, and you also devalue yourself. And yet, how can one possibly take back the things they have done? How can you put aside the past and imagine yourself anew?

Somedays, I just want to run away from the life I have now and start anew someplace else, where no one knows me. I wonder if all lost people feel this way, and how many hurts they had to suffer before realizing they were lost.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

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« Reply #475 on: August 04, 2008, 12:03:31 am »

Calvin Noble

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quote:
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I think, at last, I have found the true value of morality. Let others devalue you, and you also devalue yourself. And yet, how can one possibly take back the things they have done? How can you put aside the past and imagine yourself anew?
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Dawn, how many times have I said this to you???

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"An atheist believes in nothing, and so he shall find nothing."

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« Reply #476 on: August 04, 2008, 12:03:52 am »

Absonite

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  posted 07-25-2005 11:13 PM                       
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Dawn,
try this........

"he who rules his own self is greater than he who captures a city. Self-mastery is the measure of man's moral nature and the indicator of his spiritual development. In the old order you fasted and prayed; as the new creature  of the rebirth of the spirit, you are taught to believe and rejoice. In the Father's kingdom you are to become  new creatures; old things are to pass away; behold I show you how all things are to become new. And by your love for one another you are to convince the world that you have passed from bondage to liberty, from death into life everlasting.

143:2.4 "By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not -- it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit's transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial.

143:2.5 "Many times, when you have done evil, you have thought to charge up your acts to the influence of the evil one when in reality you have but been led astray by your own natural tendencies. Did not the Prophet Jeremiah long ago tell you that the human heart is deceitful above all things and sometimes even desperately wicked? How easy for you to become self-deceived and thereby fall into foolish fears, divers lusts, enslaving pleasures, malice, envy, and even vengeful hatred!

143:2.6 "Salvation is by the regeneration of the spirit and not by the self-righteous deeds of the flesh. You are justified by faith and fellowshipped by grace, not by fear and the self-denial of the flesh, albeit the Father's children who have been born of the spirit are ever and always masters of the self and all that pertains to the desires of the flesh. When you know that you are saved by faith, you have real peace with God. And all who follow in the way of this heavenly peace are destined to be sanctified to the eternal service of the ever-advancing sons of the eternal God. Henceforth, it is not a duty but rather your exalted privilege to cleanse yourselves from all evils of mind and body while you seek for perfection in the love of God.

143:2.7 "Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear. Your joy is born of trust in the divine word, and you shall not therefore be led to doubt the reality of the Father's love and mercy. It is the very goodness of God that leads men into true and genuine repentance. Your secret of the mastery of self is bound up with your faith in the indwelling spirit, which ever works by love. Even this saving faith you have not of yourselves; it also is the gift of God. And if you are the children of this living faith, you are no longer the bondslaves of self but rather the triumphant masters of yourselves, the liberated sons of God.

143:2.8 "If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment -- true self-mastery."
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« Reply #477 on: August 04, 2008, 12:04:03 am »

 
Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 07-25-2005 11:33 PM                       
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Calvin, yelling at Dawn does not help her problem any. I liked your quote from the Urantia Book, Absonite, I agree, we all need to exercise more control and not give into our natural impulses...
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« Reply #478 on: August 04, 2008, 12:04:16 am »

Ishtar was here 777

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  posted 07-26-2005 12:48 PM                       
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Quote,

And yet, how can one possibly take back the things they have done? How can you put aside the past and imagine yourself anew?

Guilt is a wasted emotion, Dawn, everything you experience in life is a valuble lesson, learn from the lesson, and you grow, keep making the same mistakes and you will keep making them until you see the mistake for what it was, a learning experience. Honor the lesson you have learned, honor your emotions, then move on.

Somedays, I just want to run away from the life I have now and start anew someplace else, where no one knows me. I wonder if all lost people feel this way, and how many hurts they had to suffer before realizing they were lost

I know this feeling, your experiences are the "future you",use them to lead others.

We are always learning, everyday brings another lesson.

Do not dwell on past mistakes it will destroy you, it leads to fear, depression, and anger, remember depression is anger and guilt turned inward.

[ 07-26-2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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"It is very good," said Taiowa. "It is now ready for human life, the final touch to complete my plan."The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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« Reply #479 on: August 04, 2008, 12:04:29 am »

unknown

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   posted 07-26-2005 07:28 PM                       
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Dawn

Ishtar is speaking to you from the heart,
confession is not only for catholics.
But listen to the true spirit of bible teachings god loves you and will forgive you, but the biggest thing is by admitting your mistakes you can forgive yourself, or at least work towards that end. We all make mistakes, we aren't perfect if we were we wouldn't need to be here.

[ 07-26-2005, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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