The Meaning of Existence (Original)

[Sun Goddess]

Sauron

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   posted 05-25-2005 08:43 PM                       
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You know, I already see a problem with the Cayce material. By 1935, Hitler was already in power for two years and had, by that time (if memory serves right), already made a move against Austria, foiled, oddly enough, by Mussolini at the time. It didn't take a prophet to see that the world might be heading toward world war again.

Had Cayce predicted it in the 1920's, then we might have something more remarkable.
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Posts: 52 | From: Mordor | Registered: May 2005 

[Sun Goddess]

Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 05-25-2005 08:57 PM                       
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I've actually heard that the World War II stuff was what validated Cayce as a prophet, also that he had some kind of strange healing powers. The Atlantis stuff wasn't taken seriously until much later, after the Bimini Wall was found.

The problem with the Cayce people is that they don't seem to have a lot of scientists working for them. Or at least ones that substantiate their claims.
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[Sun Goddess]

Absonite

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  posted 05-25-2005 09:01 PM                       
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I dunno Stacy,
but it all seems somewhat vague to me and a lot of it can be inferred from the situation in the world at that time by most any person with an ounce of insight into those matters.

Here below is a message received in 1945. Compare the quality and truth with the Cayce vagueness.


Full responsibility for peace rests upon the English-speaking nations. They had the mastery after 1915 but did not recognize and accept the call to duty. England and the United States turned their backs on the high privilege of planetary service. They wanted peace, prosperity, and national security; they got depression, unemployment, insecurity, and in twenty years another war. The United States increased its trials and tribulations a million fold by trying to escape its responsibility.

Between the two wars, nothing was done to prepare the children and the youth of the nation for their coming responsibilityñ-their part to play in world progress-ñand many of them refused to grow up. Why did Democracy decline so rapidly between the two wars? The leaders in England, France, and America were short-sighted. Many could not see beyond their own personal interests. These men sometimes performed against public sentiment; but even when replaced by others, the new ones behaved likewise. There was paucity of leadership and indifference to liberty. They saw Mussolini, Hitler, and Tojo arming but did not take it seriously. Democracy was not willing to fight. At various times an army of from 5,000 to 25,000 men could have prevented this war. The Democracies were unwilling and totally unorganized. They hated war and longed for peaceñ-but could you run a business or even manage a home so shortsightedly? The cowardly leaders of Democracy have set the clock of civilization back 2000 years. But we have a chance to start afresh. Today there is little Democracy to defend, and we can build a new world order from the ground up; but we must reject the policy of nonresistance. You cannot be as brotherly as you would like to be with an unbrotherly brother.


The real problem is: Man wants liberty, and liberty with equality; but equality never has existed. Freedom is an ideal. It does not exist.

Evolution can have freedom only with compulsion. We must restrain by compulsion. This is true of the individual, community, state, nation, and in family life. There is no sense to the doctrine of freedom that gives citizens the right to combat and destroy the freedoms that Democracy gives. There is no peace on earth with the license to destroy the liberty and sovereignty of other peoples. No nation can exist on a level above law. Freedom is fostered by human liberalism and Christianity. What is liberalism in one generation is conservatism in the next. Liberalism has become dogmatic, and Democracy has ceased to grow. Democracy ceased to keep pace with industrial progress. Self-government is slowly committing suicide.

Freedom must be ever militant and must unhesitatingly destroy whatever assails freedom and be intolerant concerning things undemocratic. There should be no liberty of speech for those who would destroy liberty of speech. The tools of freedom must not function in a suicidal capacity. There must be no liberty to vote in the freedoms of Democracy to destroy the right to vote.


Democracy today is being destroyed by those who wish to use Democracy. Democracy is not a club to join and forever enjoy its protection. As long as Democracyís basic freedoms exist, it is a Democracy.

The right view of Democracy is a geographic group of people having a common ideal. To allow Germans to live here and retain their German citizenship is like letting the wolves live with the sheep. Offices must be held by citizens trained in schools of statesmanship. These schools must be established.


The nations are suffering from intense industrialism and augmented nationalism. In times past, Nationalism was a good thing; it brought people together in a common interest, within law and representative government. But when a social ideal becomes a political dogma, it becomes an obstacle to world progress. Nationalism becomes a relic of patriotism which no forward-looking prophet would dare touch.

Nationalism persists because it has not been attacked by modern and intelligent citizens who do not seek to disrupt but to save it by intelligent control. Present day Nationalism is akin to polytheism. Nation and race became the pagan god of many modern people. The time has come to give way before a monotheistic policy of Internationalism. The churches must divorce themselves from Nationalism.


Internationalism will not be created by pacts, treaties, appeasement, etc. It will be created by force of arms. It is the only way for the next 1000 years of civilizationís evolution. International Legislatures must make the international laws, an International Court must interpret the laws, and an International Police must enforce the laws. Lesser nations must be forced into the international union.

Not in centuries has the Christian world had the opportunity to establish international government. Socialism, Communism, and other world movements have lost their influence. Now there must be coercive law with sure penalties attached to its violation. The god of Nationalism struck at the liberty of Democracy and at the Christian religion.

Nationalism reached the beginning of the end when you could cross the ocean in six hours and it took six weeks to get a visa. Recalcitrant and selfish Nationalism must be made to accept Internationalism. It will not regret it 25 years from now.

There are only two realities in the worldñ-the individual and the human race. The cosmos does not recognize caste, tribe, race, or nation. National wars will end when you recognize that [independent national states] Nationalism is not the final goal of human evolution.


No single idea has wrought so much misery as that delusive concept of sovereignty. Sovereignty passed from king to nation; a political dogma, for soon the people wielded sovereignty much as kings did. Today millions are dying, and millions more will starve to the national idea of sovereignty. Sovereignty reached its height in the French Revolution and its deathbed in this war. Military victors have a chance to resurrect it in a modified form. May it be a democratic modification.

Enormous vested interests are involved in the worship of the Golden Calf of sovereignty which results in economic dislocation. What will be the effect upon our returning soldiers? National matters should be handled by national sovereignty and international affairs be handled by international sovereignty.

Peace will become the watch care of international government. When lawless minorities learn that, then peace will prevail. Appeasement and moral-compromise are the habits of peace-loving and self-loving Nationalist. The present conflict resulted when nations wanted peace at any price. The theory of Democracy validates the concept of equality, but the idea of equality produces conflicts which only courts can settle, unless the victors establish international overcontol for those lesser peoples who are hungry for freedom and self-government.

The dream of equality is fiction. It is not nationally or individually true. Such a dream can only be realized before God and before a court. Man acquires citizenship equality before the law; before a super-court, all nations are equal. You cannot have equality among trends or creations without law; and law without the coercive power of enforcement is a tragic farce. Equality without law means war. Without super-law, you can only have peace when the weaker submit to the stronger.

Any hope for world peace without coercive international law is a furtive dream. Mandatory law is law enforced by unquestioned force. Peace is the reign of law. Law is the just use of force by unquestioned authority. There cannot be lasting peace without force. To make peace we must wage legal war. There is a difference between the outlaw who kills a man and the sheriff who kills the outlaw for his crime. The sheriff is not a murderer-ñhe is a peace officer.

Non-intervention and appeasements are like the old monarchsí ìgentlemenís agreements.î Each agrees to let the other carry out his nefarious schemes.

War is the major factor in the non-spiritual history of the human race. At the present time, the most advanced peoples look upon it as an unnecessary evil. It is the first time in history that world-wide peace has been talked of. Wars have become increasingly more terrible in the last 150 years, and for the last 100 years no government has been able to get the full support of its people to a war policy. Leaders start wars on the theory that they are going to be, or have been, attacked. If the majority want to abolish war, why do not they do it? If war is an expression of human emotions like crime, it will not be abolished. But civilized people have abolished individual crime. Another view: in the case of a criminal committing murder, you quickly distinguish between the criminal and the sheriff who shoots him. Each from a biological viewpoint is guilty but not from the social and moral viewpoints. There are two kinds of war: (1) social criminal aggression and (2) legal group military sanctions.

An International Government can (a) reduce war to a minimum just as courts function to minimize crime and (b) render war a legal action on the part of authorized groups for the peace, safety, and security of all mankind. War can be and must be legalized, minimized, and humanized. The use of poison gas, submarines, and aerial bombing of civilian populations can be prevented. The International Police will be known as Peace Armies. You cannot maintain rules of warfare when armies are conscripted and nations are fighting for sovereignty. You canít have international law without international power to enforce the law.


Disarmament on the part of great nations, such as the peace- loving people of the United States, is a direct contribution to war. If the English-speaking peoples remain intelligent and fully armed, they will constitute the Peace Army until the regional and international courts can be established. Equal quality of arms is a delusion. What mayor of a great city would allow criminals to carry guns? Arm well the police, but prevent the criminal element from getting arms. Long have well-meaning but short-sighted pacifist proclaimed, ìYou canít have peace by waging war.î That is exactly what you can do and will have to do for the next millennium.


Legal war is the act of the legal authority of the International Government--action in response to law. Legal war is designed to maintain peace, not to take loot or seek revenge. It is waged by order of the legal authority of International Government for safe-guarding the peace of nations. There are two kinds of fighting, and any nation that fights an illegal war will fight a hopeless one. The time has come for nations to be governed by law and not by political ambition, personal whims and directives, rampant nationalism, fanatical dictators, or the delusion of sovereignty. Modern science has ended the day of the international frontiersman. The forces of civilization have arrived on the international frontier.


The dogma of non-intervention is the most uncivilized and inconsistent ever held by modern nations. What would you think of a policeman who would refuse to help a fellow-officer who was engaged in a struggle with a thug? And it is just such strange and inhuman conduct on the part of America and other world powers which enables unscrupulous dictators to become rulers in other parts of the world. Non-intervention is the remnant of the ìgentlemenís agreementî of the olden rulers which was just an agreement between monarchs not to interfere in each othersí wars.


Todayís advances in science, industry, commerce, communication, etc. render the dogma of neutrality inconsistent. This neutrality makes possible (1) inconsistency of policies, (2) corrupt press, (3) fomenting of strikes, disorganization, disunity, and divide and conquer.


Six or eight years ago the American nation began to watch a European nation stop making automobiles and turn to making airplanes, conscripting its citizens, making over its schools, rationing its food, and taxing and limiting incomes. They were 2000 miles away so American refused to be concerned; now weíre doing those same things whether we like it or not. The world cannot go on half free and half slave; it must be either all free or all slave. There are still thousands of Americans who do not see things as they really are. They long for the day when it will be over and they can return to their old ways. They are Isolationists at heart, ready to disarm and sink their navy again. They learned very little from the last world war (World War I) wherein the naval disaster (disarming) was far more costly than the loss at Pearl Harbor.


If one great nation allows treaties to be counted as scraps of paper, then all great nations are invalidated. Today if one goes off the gold standard, they all go off because each is so interdependent. The world is so economically interdependent that the price of commodities must be determined by the producer operating under the least favorable conditions, which means, in competition, that the standard of living starts on a downward spiral. Tariffs tend to make barriers, but you pay a price for them. This downward spiral affects the standard of living, depth of culture, extent of education, labor conditions, personal liberty, taxation, tariffs, exports and imports, defense policies, and moral standards. The nation living under the least favorable condition and lowest cultural standard will become the determining influence over all other peoples.


The only hope of the survival of the American standards of living is to share them as far as possible with other peoples. If one powerful nation is deficient in morality, it costs us much more to keep ours up. The nation that would selfishly save its own high standards is destined to lose them. In any circumscribed area of the world it will be discovered, in the long run, that the existing government will be compelled to gravitate gradually down to the level of the lowest and most primitive that is allowed to exist. One criminal and inferior abroad in a community can corrupt a score of well-meaning youths. In self-defense the Democracies must export life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


Whoever heard of neutrality between right and wrong? How can you be neutral in the struggle between good and evil? In any ideal struggle, neutrality is suicidal. Neutrality means the enemy is free to pick you off one at a time. In local government a sheriff, when hard-pressed by lawlessness, can deputize any number of citizens, but such a plan will not work on a national scale. Such results can only be gotten by internationalism.


Honest men cannot have confidential dealings with rascals. Honest nations keep their word and live up to their treaties. The honest administration does not make treaties with a dishonest neighbor. If war is to be outlawed, the farce of neutrality must end. It is immoral and cowardly for a group of law-abiding citizens to stand idly by and see a fellow citizen being held up, beaten, and robbed; and such moral indifference is suicidal to a nation. What can be said of Christian nations that stand by complacently while world gangsters strafe and plunder the civilized world, murdering and starving little children? May it never happen again!


The French Revolution reached the highest point in the struggle for personal liberty, the American Revolution in the struggle for national independence. A grave mistake was made when the spirit of independence was concocted into a formula of self-determination; and it was an American president who perpetrated this blunder when only fifty years previously a Civil War was fought to prevent the right of self-determination. Little nations can have no more self-determination than each state of the Union can have complete sovereignty.


Each state is sovereign in all matters of state but in national affairs the Federal Government is sovereign, and you can only have peace predicated on law. The idea of every little nation having the right of self-determination only spells industrial paralysis and social hell. Internationalism is detrimental to national intrigue.


You canít postulate independence without encountering interdependence, and nine out of ten nations canít have economic independence without enormously lowering their standard of living. The United States and Russia--the two most powerful nations in the world-- are not economically independent. Humans are born wholly dependent. Each child seeks independence, but he learns, as he grows older, that he is interdependent. The concept of complete independence is fallacious. In life there is dependence, independence, and then intelligent interdependence.


The complete independence of self-determination which was accorded small nations after the first world war did not afford them security. They were uneasy, suspicious, and tormented by feelings of insecurity. Both individuals and nations must learn the lessons of interdependence. The attempt at complete economic independence leads to over-production, disorderly distribution, unemployment, and economic depression. Neither a nation nor a small group of nations can hope to enjoy complete and independent economic freedom.


In the spiritual world ìno man liveth unto himself alone.î Neither can a nation continue to live to itself. A state that strives for economic freedom will gravitate certainly and swiftly to a totalitarian state. Fascism and Nazism is the result of striving for economic freedom--freedom without restraint, liberty without compulsion. Honesty in business and altruism in government pays high dividends.


We must relinquish national sovereignty and enter into international sovereignty. Think how much states are free when they donít have to concern themselves with things Federal. So would nations be more free with an International Government to attend to global affairs. It will be too late to undertake it after the war is over. Says the Declaration of Independence: ìWhenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, it is the right of the people to alter, abolish, or institute new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.î


Today the nations of the earth are most unsafe and most unhappy. Nationalism is on its deathbed. Unlimited sovereignty is moribund. The time has come for the birth of Internationalism. Let the sick nations follow the wise counsel of the fathers of American independence. Will you humble your nationalism enough to adopt a sane internationalism?


Dictators proclaim ìMight is Right.î Democracies believe ìRight is Might.î The world is suffering from these errors or relative truths. Spiritual causes cannot employ physical force in their interest, but material causes depend on physical force for their survival. It is perfectly proper to found a church on the ideas of the League of Nations of World War I. When the League of Nations didnít apply force, it committed suicide. War is a legal reality. When not used in the support of law, it will be used in the contravention of law and against economic justice. How silly to let international gangsters and criminals dominate the world!


Divorce force from the service of aggression, and attach it to the law of justice. Our slogan should be ìRight predicated on Might.î Educate zealous crusaders to toil for the new order. Democracy has too many apostles and not enough crusaders. When two nations are in trouble with each other, neither one can judge their aggressions. That is the job of an International Court. Aggression is good when directed against injustice. Hitler made his first aggression when he proclaimed, ìRight is whatever is in the interest of the German folk.î Thatís the time we should have struck. Judgment is the function of a group.


Democracy cannot be static. Peace is dynamic. When the law- abiding citizen is static, then the outlaw is dynamic. As we exist today, we can only exist by waging war--war that is waged in the interest of international law. War can only be prevented by the action of International Police ready to act instantly. Failure to provide for International Police provides for international banditry. When the first international military force moves against the first one who dares to go against international law, then we shall have peace.


Democracies were used to seeing local gangsters committing crime but were shocked to see them at the heads of governments. We dreaded law with force. Now we have a world with force without law.

[ 05-25-2005, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Absonite ]
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[Sun Goddess]

Stacy Dohm

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   posted 05-25-2005 09:10 PM                       
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Oh, I agree, anyone with insight at the time would have been able to tell that we were headed for war at that time. But I think that he actually predicted the exact dates when World War II started and ended. Like I said, I just don't feel like checking that out now, but I will later when I have time.

He made lots of predictions, concerning racial strife, the Depression, two presidents dying in office. Crystal links just highlights the most prominent ones.

The point is, you can't just dismiss him as some hack. Which, in my view, is why the Atlantis stuff should be taken more seriously.

Course I'm also well aware that one man's sleeping prophet is another one's nutjob!

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"All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream." - Edgar Allen Poe

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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   

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Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 05-25-2005 09:42 PM                       
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quote:
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However the destination is not the point the journey is. Just my own thoughts on the matter.
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Not if your destination leads you to Hell, Seeker.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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[Sun Goddess]

Dawn Moline

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   posted 05-25-2005 10:00 PM                       
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Wonderful day again where I was, blue skies, the trees all in bloom, the scent of lilac in the air.

One bad thing did happen to me, or good, depending on your point of view. I went down to the park to take into the scenery. I stood by the lagoon, feeding the ducks with some bread I brought from home, wearing a nice spring dress. Someone called my name, I looked up and found the man I had been with last week. I almost never run into my friends at the park, and it was only out of sheer luck that I ran into him again. He told me that he had been looking all over for me, and thought he might never see me again. He told me that I was the most sensitive, the most beautiful woman he had ever met and that he had fallen in love with me. His name is Jeremy.

Well, I didn't know what to say. Our encounter hadn't been about love for me, but rather one of both sadness and desperation. I told him that he barely knew me, that he had only caught me at a bad time, and that if he really knew me he would be disappointed. I told him that I liked the time we spent together, but that I couldn’t be anyone's lover at this time, I could only offer friendship.

Oddly, none of that seemed to have any effect. He told me that I just needed time to sort out my feelings, and that he wanted to be in my life when I did. He told me I was the kind of girl that summer had been invented for. Nice compliment, one that totally does not fit me. Much as I love summer, my moods are more like fall and winter.

We spent a short time together and he said a few other things, too personal to share here. Before I left, he tried to kiss me and I let him, barely kissed him back.

I am, to put it mildly, a poor object for fantasies. All the men who have been my lovers end up disappointed eventually. Either they want a more permanent commitment, which I can never give, or get frustrated because they can't change me. It’s odd to even be somebody's dream girl. I can't live up to their ideal, and often I find myself beating myself up because I can't. I think they see one thing they like about me, that I often let them touch me and or kiss me and don't object, and from that, they try to invest all the things they ever wanted in other women in me.

It's odd how we build up such fantasies towards one another. I don't think that any of us actually can save one another by investing all our hopes and dreams in another human being, and yet, that is what we always do.

I mean to keep things platonic with him, and yet, when he gets to know me better, I am certain he won't like who I am. There's always something they need to change, and I cannot help but to be who I am.

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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato
 

[Sun Goddess]

Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 05-25-2005 10:07 PM                       
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Dawn, at first glance, I have to say I think it's wonderful how you can have the courage to talk about your personal life with people like Calvin and Norman around here, always passing judgment. That goes for Michelle and Veronica, too. Each time I say something personal about myself here, I have to stop myself from going back and editing or deleting it all later.
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Norman Pounders

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Rate Member   posted 05-25-2005 10:11 PM                       
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Dawn, don't you think it's a bit narcissistic of you to continue to go on about your personal life, day after day?

Well, on the bright side, at least you didn't sleep with him this time (or at least, said you didn't  ). I imagine that's a step up for you.

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"The world is not divided into men and women. It's divided into great minds and small minds;

- Anassa

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[Sun Goddess]

Archangel

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   posted 05-25-2005 10:23 PM                       
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I can picture you someone's dream girl, Dawn. You have a genuine warmth about you and a caring heart. Being nice is probably the thing men seek most from a woman.

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Beware the All-Seeing Eye. It watches you even as you sleep. The power touches every corner of the earth.

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[Sun Goddess]

Archangel

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   posted 05-25-2005 10:26 PM                       
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As usual, Norman Pounders, you show your ill manners!

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Beware the All-Seeing Eye. It watches you even as you sleep. The power touches every corner of the earth.

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Seekerofknowledge

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   posted 05-26-2005 10:11 AM                       
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Hell would be eternity listening to your drivel Norman but seeing as there is no Hell.
Once again you've missed the point, there is only one destination, but as I said the destination is not the point the journey and what you learn on it are. Of course I wouldnt expect a mind slave like yourself to understand.


"the truth cannot be told only found"

[ 05-26-2005, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Seekerofknowledge ]

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"the truth cannot be told, only found"

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Posts: 49 | From: Danville,Il. | Registered: Apr 2005 

[Sun Goddess]

Ishtar

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  posted 05-26-2005 10:27 AM                       
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dear god help me

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think

[Sun Goddess]

Ishtar

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  posted 05-26-2005 10:33 AM                       
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please

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think

[Sun Goddess]

Calvin

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   posted 05-26-2005 01:43 PM                       
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It seems like too many people are using these forums are their own personal blog.

"Today I met some dipshit and we ****ed and then he wouldn't cuddle with me so I cried cuz I'm a stupid ****."

I am done with this forum.

**** all you newbies who turned it into a Womens Rights versus Christian Right Wing.

I hope you ****-eaters eat-**** and get aids.
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Posts: 211 | From: El Cajon, CA | Registered: Nov 2004

[Sun Goddess]

Shemp
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Rate Member   posted 05-26-2005 07:42 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Calvin Noble:
Be honest with him about your past, though, since God hates lies.
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Read your Bible. God is the Father of Lies. The first lie was God telling Adam that if he ate from the Tree of Knowledge that he'd die the very same day.

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I have spoken.

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