What time frame did it exist in?

[Chronos]

Sorry, Mark, I find the new results a bit puzzling, too.  And then, it occurs to me that most people place Atlantis at a more distant time, even though the more recent time would appear to be more practical.

The new results actually result from people being able to change their vote to a choice more to their liking.

[BlueHue]

OFCOURSE,. . . .   these traditional-classical antiquity-voters are not aware that there are   other  Chronology systems currently.  with also very LATE dates! Which Plato did not invent.

for instance the present one for Atlantis comes from Plato AND the Belgian Egyptologist Dr Emile Brugsch who founded for the FIRST time in: 1850  the present established egyptian Chronology derived from "Manethoon( 285 bc.)from which by comparison and Synchronity ALL other chronologies were compiled be it Assyrian ; Babylonian or Sumerian/Hittite Dynasties reaching back for written records to: 3.000 bc


    However in : 1949 Dr Velikovsky at Princeton University in NewJersy, discovered single-handedly anomalies of dating: the socalled 500 years of Dark-ages occured in all Chronologies ( except the original Egyptian one!  So his simple conclusion was that 3 successive Egyptian Dynasties nrs 12; 18 and 22 must have bee, not successive, but concurrent; these THREE Dynasties were versions of ONE; nr 18, meaning that dynasties: nrs 12 & 22 never existed as separate, entities, making up an anomaly of exactly 500 years !. . .   Dr V. founded  the REVISED Chronology opposite the NEW-Chronology of Dr David Rohl and mr N.C.Pope.


This also meant that the "contemporary" Mesopothamian Dynasties of the 12-th and 22-th eg.Dynasty also never existed and were. likewise, different language-versions of the contemporary Eastern Dynasties of the egyptian 18-th Dynasty.

a true
follower of Dr V, Professor of Ecomomics, Gunnar Heinsohn went even further in discovering that the entire First babylonian Dynasty, was only the Babylonian-language  version or rendering of the entire Chaldean/Achemenid Persian Dynasty and must thus have been composed after the year 333 bc.   He published these amazing findings in 1989 in a book Called"The SARGON- MIRROR" Heinsohn's  dating of the oldest written History stops short in: 2.000 bc so the 3.000 and 4.000 limits for the earliest written tabletts are 2.000 years too long!   


 Ofcourse we have never seen written tabletts from Atlantis but they do exist: King Tudhallias-4, supposedly Hittitte from 1200 bc was in Velikovsky's REVISED-chronology King Nabonid from Babylon ( at Teima.)About 850 bc
He had the Wall tabletts from the Temple of Poseidon in ADEN(= AD-Lantis.) removed to: his mortuary temple in Yazzilikaja ( near Hattushas/Bogazkoi.) These Tablett look Sumerian in art but the later added Texts are in a form of Early 18-th dynasic Mittanic writing suggesting that the Kingdom of Mittani in NORTH Araby also extended to South-Araby,  and had occupied the site-of-Atlantis before the Neo-Babylonians did from: 610-539 bc when at last the Persians conquerred the denuded site of the Poseidon Temple at Aden.


The real discoverer of "Atlantis" (as the theocratic State of Israel".)is Dr.Velikovsky in 1949, but because he met only Prejuidice and Animosity amongst his Critics and intended publisher, he decided to hide this fact in his popular textbook: AGES-IN-CHAOS, which is still controversial and mistrusted, yet several other chronologists tried to Emulate him (Unsuccesfully) by inventing similar NEW-Chronologies, but on other bases.     


They discard Velikovsky's 500 non-existant years and reduced it to only 250 as Dr Dirkzwager from Holland; Aman Osman( Temple of humanity General Yuya as supposed Jacob the Patriarch(= Yakubher a Hyksos Ruler.)) N.C.Pope did in his website and Dr.David-Rohl, The dentist dr.Courville,( 1971) just followed Manethoons greek rendering of Egyptian names and found anomalies and doubletts too.  Since Dr Velikovsky is the most educated of these his 500 extra years stand out!


But 60 years ago the science-publishers were not apt to recall historybooks or to issue overleaves for the anomaly Dynasty-pages so their only response was to villify dr Velikovsky.  My first reading was in 1979 of Ages-in-Chaos, There yet existed no Email-internet, so I was unable to reach & converse with this remarkable clever man just before his untimely Death from grieve.   He had not left a detailled copy of his TIME-LINE  which left his own adherends too, "groping-in-the-Dark"! 


To Re-produce his TIME-LINE that he never issued in details, was not my first intrest since I became the President of my own classic Fairytales-Children's Museum(" The-Elf ")  in Delft in 1979, in Holland.  Only after  (the intended audience; drugs-habited school bratts themselves, initiated  34 burglaries, after closing time) and amongst which ( 2 ) Incindairies by an office-block develloping-Compagny, . . . . . I realised that Children's Fairytales don't intrests the kids anymore, in a life Diorama Museum at least not by my effords, Home-Dvd-Fairytales are the craze


in 2005 on behest of my very patiënt Foster father Basil Van-Bemmelen who gained much insight from Velikovsky's TIME-LINE.  I started to haphazzerdly Fill-in items of Dr. V's TIME-LINE on an Microsoft XLS-Sheet, that I lost several times by accidental erasure, on Floppies before I bought my first  Flash-memory-Stick in 2006.


Thus in Dr Velikovsky's TIME-LINE the Dates of Atlantis are very un-conventional between: 1075-855 bc  Webmaster 'CHRONOS' has added these Dates as: between 1000-800 for clarity which is nearly correct. . . . We all know that Plato interntionally exaggerated ALL his Atlantis figures by a DECIMAL-zero extra to make the age of the Myth/Saga,  appear older!    Plato,  started with 10 Kings which seems probable Untill, One realizes, that in Plato's text they were born simultaniously from Poseidon & Cleito, while her Husband Evenor just stood by watching , very likely See?!


10 Isles are not improbable but what about 2 million inhabitants making 200.000 inhabitants  per island!. . . Than,  they had 20.000 golden chariots but on which island is not certain, at last there were 10 rivers on ONE island and another 10 artificial rivers in a circle on that same island, does this still seem normal ??


THAN there is the TIME-LINE issue: Atlantis drowned during a Tsunami in  approx.10.000 bc except for the DATE ,-which should be clear by now,- was more akin to: 1000 bc ! Atlantis could not have been sunken under water because it was only drowned at an extra-ordinary high-tide and it was on an extinct Volcano- caldeira & Cone.[/b


This extinct Volcano, as goes with the territory, may have had Termal-Springs that went up-in-the-air during an Earth-Quake, but Atlantis was afterwards rebuilt by the egyptians who re-named it the third-Egypt or "India-Media".     Later , Atlantis of Plato was named by the Greeks Oikumene'The "Known -World"   ( This was later re-named after the extinct white arabian Elephant: ARABIA-Foëlix="Elephant-Country")


I just tell you all this so that you understand that the addition of the Lowest & latest dates for "Atlantis" is not a flight of Fancy, or a Leap-of-Faith  but a scientific fact.  On the other hand dear   GEORGEOS still thinks of " Atlantis- in- the-Atlantic " from: 9.000 bc, Peace be with the meek. ignorance is bliss!  I mean he just missed the point and although I have emailed him frequently reclined answering with a comment !  Maybe at the second "Melos"meeting in 2008, he will announce that his Spartel-theory was just a joke to test the creadibility and awareness of other Atlanteans who think of: SPAIN(=hIberia) Ice-land; Green-Land;(Hiperboria) or even Iere-land(Ibernia)( except Sarmast's Cyprus,)( All IN the 'midst' of the Atlantic.)

  At Melos-2 in 2008,( or possibly in Delft-Polly- University auditorium ?if THEY stop snivveling & grinning! ) all the Gods will have a hearty Laugh over the really stupid mistakes made back in 2005!. . . 


Sincerely       "BlueHue"   

[Morrison]

I certainly don't place Atlantis as old as Plato suggests.  It makes no logical sense. The events could not have occurred in an era before the Greeks and Egyptians were themselves a people.

And so I selected between 5000 bc and 2000 bc, an era just out of recent memory, and yet old enough for the details to have been conceivably recorded somewhere. 

[Boreas]

Morrison,

I think that was covered in my replies on page 1 of this thread...

[BlueHue]

Truth about Atlantis?   it was ruled by jealous TEAM Kings they started a civil War

 :'(Distant historical traditions are always flattered into situations that belie the ugly truth !


The real Atlantis story was culled by plato from The DANAOS-Myth, about 2 brothers that loved their beautiful sister and fought atlantis over her:"Danaos and Egyptos.

Atlantis existed inbetween Two historical Floods inbetween 1075-855 bc, inbetween ASIA-Maiorem & LYBIA-Sub-Sive Aegypto(= East-Africa.)and the egyptian Pharaoh THOT had redistributed the derelict land after the first TSUNAMI, to DANAOS & EGYPTOS.

DANAOS GOT ATLANTIS AND EGYPTOS GOT ARABISTAN(= iRAK)

Sincerely      "BlueHue"   

[Tom Hebert]

Sorry, Mark, I find the new results a bit puzzling, too.  And then, it occurs to me that most people place Atlantis at a more distant time, even though the more recent time would appear to be more practical.

The new results actually result from people being able to change their vote to a choice more to their liking.

Hi Chronos,

Whoever said Atlantis enthusiasts were interested in being practical? 

You know, if we really wanted to be practical we would dismiss the story of Atlantis as a product of one philosopher's vivid imagination.  I'm sure this is what most of the world's population believes.  And yet that answer got zero votes here. 

As of today 20 people have voted, and 13 believe that Atlantis existed 9000 BC or earlier.  This means that the majority of our posters go with Plato's traditional dates.

[Mark of Australia]

Yes it is interesting , it seems most of the voters think that the 9000 years of Plato actually uses the year as we define it,365 days.  I myself voted for a bronze age Atlantis. a 'lunar year' was used .28 days.

Naturally if someone thinks the story was an invention by Plato ,they wouldn't even want to discuss it.They wouldn't even frequent this forum.

Also the poll for the Diaz-Montexano theory being scientific is curious..  it is overwhelmingly voted to not be scientific ,which I think is due to everyones dislike of the man,not necessarily the science. Science at some levels seems to be affected by popularity contests.

[Bianca]

QUOTE:

"Also the poll for the Diaz-Montexano theory being scientific is curious..It is over-
whelmingly voted to not be scientific, which I think is due to everyones dislike of the man, not necessarily the science.  Science at some level seems to be affected by
popularity contests."


Mark:

I think, in this case (Georgeos), science is like certain religious beliefs:

When something is REPEATEDLY and FORCEFULLY thrust down the

listeners' throat,

a 'knee-jerk" reaction follows, as strongly NEGATIVE.

[BlueHue]

DEAR, BIANCA 2001, and "Georgeos"( If he read this, )


"GEORGEOS", started the mythical-Atlantis Hype, with an obviously  false Premise back in 2003, deeming it a MUDSHOAL-island in CAPE-SPARTEL/ sandband in the Bay of Tanger, in a dynamic,  fast streaming Tide-zone outlett of the Mediaterranean into the "Spanish-Sea".

This is a false pretense because,as it turns out( analysed by himself!) that AtlantisKOUM Pellagious means a SEA-ARM; thus NOT a BAY, nor a SEA-STRAIT, but the back-end of a GULF !( which he carefully avoided to mention, in distracting us, letting us think in freedom, for ourselve,  he keeps everyone groping in the dark.         " Que Linda est la Maniana, quando sal est Sol."( Reqiem of Cowboys.)

He mentioned "Mighthier-Than" instead of the indeed GROSS:"as-big-as, but fails for obvious reasons to mention the find by Ganalopoulos and Marinatos back in 1935 about "MESO"(= bigger than.) actually beiing meant as:"MEZO"( in-between)


BECAUSE that actually means that Plato's original coordinate for the historical Atlantis is elsewhere from his appointed location!  Namely not bigger than Asia & Lybia", but simply deadright in-between Asia & Lybia


Which is naturally not in the( present modernly named-)Atlantic Ocean.


Still, I think that we shall Honour the man for his tenacious charater persueing a false lead and not getting tired of answering our ( most)Stupid questions, he has really the proper "Scientifico" education and a heart for the matter, that not every forumvisiter displays, as vividly & cordially as he does.!

We must keep in mind, that Without "GEORGEOS" Atlantis Hype -initialisation, in 2003, there would be 6 Atlantis-Forums less then now, and WE would not be : "Talking" to each other.!


The default fallacy of 'GEORGEOS"s find is so obvious that it is impossible to think that he was NOT in cahoots with Geological Professor Collina-Girard in Staging that little sherade about him beiing Plagiarized by a profesionalscientist, that should know better, A rollingstone gathers no moss!. . . the socalled Dammage of reputation is just a sub-terfuge detraction of the fact that a shifting mudshoal in the Atlantic is a Publicity-trap for ignorant Laymen.


"Georgeos" could easily have shouted: "APRIL- FOOL" , any time, 4 years ago, but his joke got out of hand !
on  the other hand, the Public is not yet used /accustomed to my discovery of ADEN/Eden as the original Historic "Holi-land-of-Atlantis".


I say and think that "Georgeos" has done the only right optiona desperate man could do, to attract attention to his Studies: make a wild statement about Atlantis and people come to your doorstep!   And he proofed himself right ! . .  He poses as a aimiably , as a gullible man, but he is a cool cunning classical language Scientist.    However if he has  ever studied Marine-Geology, he certainly knew to hide that knowledge!


With no offence to "Georgeos" antagonists, I think he is a swell guy and  I sincerely hope that he keeps us entertained despite that we have seen through his-clever-Hoax, he has fooled "The ( Scientific-)World" !   ( Only, they don't know it yet.! )

Sincerely     " BlueHue "   

[BlueHue]

Atlantis was a leisurefull society because the harvests of fruittrees and ofcourse FRANKINCENSE were twice a year which makes Atlantis location in the Sub-Tropics. 

 Mark Ponta is worried about the Connection of Atlantis with an agricultural society: ? the 10 Kings had drawn lots for the best soil to be develloped into  farming estates besides the tidal-Plain with Seaweeds provided problem-free food for the " 1.000 " white se4agoing Elephants that roamed the Metropolis, but of whom Plato only dedicated HALF a Line!

Atlantis meant Hatti-Land  and in Hindi:" Padala or Phulastia, which means ( White )Elephant Land, ADEN/ ADDE also means WHITE- Elephant and as if it is ordained to be so: Arabia Foelix also means " White-Elephant", PILLARS ( of Heracles.) also means " White-Elephant" Please read my Subscript ( in Blue, underneath.this TEXT.)

( In Proverb, a " White -Elephant" is a building that has been finished with too much overhead, a exorbitant costly building !)    

Sincerely " BlueHue" dd 11 Dec. 2007

[HereForNow]

We all have our individual ideas of where it was, but this is a really interesting question.
One thing I see that really caught my eye is, the poll results.

39,000 bc and beyond  8 (26.7%)
38,000 to 10,000 bc  8 (26.7%)


The majority of us beleive that it was around in the time of the ice age.

[BlueHue]

Need a "dont know" option for the honest among us.   Otherwise, Plato's imagination it is.

[Dark30]

 Sometimes I do wonder if Plato did just make it up!!

[BlueHue]

Sometimes I do wonder if Plato did just make it up!!