Atlantis Online
November 02, 2024, 04:15:59 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Secrets of ocean birth laid bare 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5191384.stm#graphic
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

the Picts & the Lost English Mythology

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: the Picts & the Lost English Mythology  (Read 2052 times)
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« on: March 02, 2007, 03:11:06 pm »

The Picts

"Venit et extremis legio praetenta Britannis, Quae Scotto dat frena truci ferronque notatas Perlegit examines Picto moriente figuras"

The above words of the Roman poet Claudian perhaps give the only physical description of the race of people known as Picts who once raided Roman Britain, defeated the Angle-Saxon invaders and in one of the great mysteries of the ancient world, disappeared as a separate people by the end of the tenth century. "This legion, which curbs the savage Scot and studies the designs marked with iron on the face of the dying Pict," are the Claudian words which give some insight as to the name given by Rome to the untamed tribes north of Hadrian's Wall . The Romans called this pre-Celtic people Pictii, or "Painted," although Claudius' words are proof that (as claimed by many historians), the ancient Picts actually tattooed their bodies with designs. To the non-Roman Celtic world of Scots and Irish and the many tribes of Belgic England and Wales they were known as "Cruithni" and for many centuries they represented the unbridled fury of a people who refused to be brought under the yoke of Rome or any foreign invader.
The origins of the Picts are clouded with many fables, legends and fabrications, and there are as many theories as to who the Picts were (Celtic, Basque, Scythians, etc.), where they came from, what they ate or drank, and what language they spoke, as there once were Pictish raiders defying the mighty legions of Rome. Legend tells us, perhaps incorrectly, that Rome's mighty Ninth Legion, the famous "Hispana" legion, which had earned its battle honors in Iberia, conquering Celtic Spain for Caesar is never heard of again when faced against the Picts (they actually surfaced years later in Israel). We do know that the Picts may have spoken a non-Celtic language, (although many Celtophiles feel the Picts spoke a Brythonic-Gaulish form of Celtic language) as St. Columba's biographer clearly stated that the Irish saint needed a translator to preach to the Pictish King Brude, son of Maelchon, at Brude's court near the shores of Loch Ness. At other times the Pictish king lived at Scone, and we know there often were two separate Pictish kingdoms of Northern and Southern Picts. We know that they were mighty sailors, for the Romans feared the Pictish Navy almost as much as the wild men who came down from the Highlands to attack the villages along the wall. We also know that as far as the 9th century they wrote in stone a language which was not far in design from the Celtic "Ogham" script but was not Celtic in context, although Prof. Richard Cox thinks that it is Norse, which has really turned the carefully galvanized world of Pictish academic opinions upside down. By the legacy of their standing stones, we know that they were great artists as well. It is also well known that the Picts were one of Western culture's rare matrilinear societies; that is, bloodlines passed through the mother, and Pictish kings were not succeeded by their sons, but by their brothers or nephews or cousins as traced by the female line in (according to the scholar Dr. Anthony Jackson) a complicated series of intermarriages by seven royal houses.
It was this rare form of succession which in the year 845 A.D. gave the crown of Alba and the title Rex Pictorum to a Celtic Scot, son of a Pictish princess by the name of Kenneth, Son of Alpin. This Kenneth MacAlpin, whose father's kingship over the Scots had been earlier taken over by the Pictish king Oengus, who ruled as both king of Picts and Scots, and who possibly harbored a deep ethnic hatred for the Picts, and in the event known as "MacAlpin's Treason" murdered the members of the remaining seven royal houses thus preserving the Scottish line for kingship of Alba and the eventual erasure from history of the Pictish race, culture and history.
The true mystery in Pictish studies is the extraordinary disappearance of the culture of the tattoed nations of the North. The fact that within three generations of MacAlpin kings, the Picts were almost held in legendary status as a people of the past must be the real question to be answered, and the historian is consumed by legend, lack of facts and the nagging story of an obscure intrigue leading to genocide of a people, its customs, culture, laws and art.
It is in the sculptured stones of Scotland, left behind by the Pictish and proto-Pictish people of ancient Alba and present day Scotland that we can find some information about a mighty race of people who defied and defeated Rome and who slaughtered the invincible barbarian hordes of Angles Germans at Nechtansmere in Angus, and hammered the invading Vikings back home thus forever preserving a separate culture and race in Scotland. It is in these sometimes mighty, sometimes delicate stones that the history of ancient Scotland is now recorded. Were they descendants of the ancient Basque people of northern Spain once known to Rome as Pictones, who then migrated to northern Britain after they had helped the Empire defeat the seagoing people of Biscay? Or are they descendants of the dark tribes of ancient Stygia and the huge Eastern steepes? No one knows - only the Stones.
Report Spam   Logged

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2007, 03:12:16 pm »

Introduction...

Perhaps the greatest mystery of Scottish or even European history is the people who once inhabited the lands north of Hadrian's Wall and as far north as the Shetlands. Who were these fiercely independent people? Where did the come from? Which language did they speak? What did they call themselves? We first hear of them in the third century from a Roman writer, who describes their fierceness and battle skills. The writer Eumenius, writes about them 200 years after Rome has been in Britain, and the name associated with the Pict is forever coined. To this day, we do not know if this is truly as in "pictus" (the Latin for "painted") or a Latin form of a native name. Because of the isolation of northern Scotland, history yields little, and the Roman Empire's expeditions into the north ended in little gains.
"We, the most distant dwellers upon the earth, the last of the free, have been shielded...by our remoteness and by the obscurity which has shrouded our name...Beyond us lies no nation, nothing but waves and rocks"
The above words by the Pictish chief Calgacus are recorded by the Roman enemy in the words of Tacitus and are a perfect example of the obscurity and legendary status held by the Picts almost 2,000 years ago.
Early Scotland

The earliest recorded evidence of man in Scotland is dated to 8,500 B.C. It is thus that a few thousand years before the birth of Christ, Neolithic men from Spain and France, makers of fire and herders of sheep and cattle had already made their way to Scotland. Some archeologists suggest that these people may have built and used the great chambered cairns which dot the Scottish countryside. It has also been suggested that their descendants eventually merged with the Beaker people (who probably came from northern Europe), and this ethnic union made up the pre-Celtic stock of the northern lands.

The link of these early inhabitants to their Iberian ancestors can be found in the many spiral pattern grooves cut into the rocks and boulders of this northern land and which can also be found in Spain, France and Ireland. The design of burial chambers located in the Orkney islands also provide an important link to the Iberian origin of their builders. Farming arrived in these islands around 4,000 BC (3-4,000 years after it started in Asia Minor) and as it replaced the nomadic way of life, the Orkneys became an island fortress with its many stone settlements. By the time Rome became a world empire, the Orcadians were recognized by Rome as a sea power. From recent excavations, it seems that these Orcadian people were a slim, swarthy Caucasian race, with long, narrow heads.
Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2007, 03:14:04 pm »

The great stone circles such as Sunhoney were probably being built around 3,300 BC, quite possibly around the same time as the arrival of the Beaker people from Northern and Central Europe. These newcomers were of a different ethnic group from the Iberian stock in northern Britain, as their skulls were much broader and round. Evidence of contact between these new people and their continental ancestors have been discovered in several excavations, and seem to indicate a flourishing trade between ancient Scotland and Europe. It is thought by many scholars that the union of these two peoples resulted in the creation of the pre- Celtic stock eventually loosely called Pict by the Roman and Cruithne by the Celts.
The arrival of the Celts to Britain and Ireland brings yet another culture to these northern parts. The Irish call themselves the "Milesian race," based on the myth that they are descended from Milesius, a Celtic King of Spain.

Celtic Torque from Spain


The Celts arrived in Britain around 500 B.C. A nomadic people whose culture spread from Eastern Europe to Iberia, they were sometimes described as as fair headed, tall, fierce warriors by the Greeks (Since many Celts dyed their hair with lye, some historians believe that this is what the Greeks meant by fair-headed) althought the Britannic Celts encountered by the Romans were usually described as dark haired and short. As a warrior culture, it was a Celtic army which nearly destroyed Rome in her early days and thus forever made themselves an unforgivable enemy of the Latin empire. Because the first historical reference to the Picts appears in 297 A.D., when they are mentioned as enemies of Rome in the same context as the Hiberni (Irish), Scotii (Scots) and Saxones (Saxons), many historians assume that the Picts were simply another Celtic tribe. Although is quite probable that there was much Celtic stock in some of the southern tribes in the loose federation of tribes which eventually made up the Pictish nation, it is my opinion that the vast majority of the Pictish peoples north of the Forth were made up mostly from the earlier, pre-Celtic people of northern Britain. Some historians use Ireland as an example, and Michael Lynch eloquently states that "Whatever the Picts were, they are likely, as were other peoples either in post-Roman western Europe or in contemporary Ireland, to have been an amalgalm of tribes, headed by a warrior aristocracy which was by nature mobile. Their culture was the culture of the warrior... ." More on this later.

The bottom line is that so little is known, that most Pictophiles need to make huge leaps and prodigious interpretations of the "facts" to state their views. The explanations migrate to this core of "facts" in a futile effort to explain this mysterious people.

The Romans came to Scotland, often defeated the Picts in battle, but they never conquered them or the land on which they lived. By the third century A.D. the Roman general Agricola slaughtered a Pictish army led by the quoted Calgacus, the Swordsman (as many of 10,000 Picts may have been killed and 340 Romans). The Picts who fought Agricola at Mons Grampius were described as tall and fair headed. Agricola's legions halted near Aberargie in Perthshire, where they built a fort. They also met a new tribe of barbarians, who the Romans described as swarthy and looking like the Iberians they had conquered in southern Spain. It was to retain control of the advances made by Agricola that several forts were built between Callander near Stirling up to Perth. Within thirty years of their establishment, the Picts had destroyed and burned the Roman forts, and according to Victorian legend, Rome's most famous legion, the Ninth was sent north from Inchtuthil to perhaps relieve Pictish pressure. Legend has it that legion was massacred and forever lost in some unknown battle against the painted men of the north, although history shows us that the Ninth reappears later on in Judea.
It was Hadrian who decided that northern Scotland was not worth more legions, and so he pulled back the Empire to the Tyne and the Solway. There he built the famous wall which bears his name, seventy miles from sea to sea. Perhaps because of constant warfare and attacks against the wall, that Antoninus Pius advanced the frontier again to the thin Scottish neck between the Forth and Clyde. Thirty nine miles long and boasting twenty forts, it may have separated Pictish tribes on either sides of the wall. The wall was manned by the Second, Sixth and Twentieth Legions during its forty years. The Picts never ceased attacking it, and in fact the Romans lost it and regained it twice before finally giving it up by the end of the second century and retreating to Hadrian's Wall. We lean from the words of Cassius Dio that the northern tribes "crossed the wall, did a great deal of damage and killed a general and his troops."
Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2007, 03:14:21 pm »

In 208 A.D., the governor of Britain was forced to appeal to the Emperor for help against the barbarians, and Septimus Severus decided to come to Britain together with his sons. The old soldier took a Roman fleet loaded with 40,000 centurions into the Firth of Forth, landed a vengeful Roman army ashore, and although he defeated every Pictish army he met and beheaded every Pictish chief who failed to surrender, he failed to conquer the land which he called Caledonia and he too was soon dead. However, the lesson grimly taught by the Roman and the decimation caused in the Pictish countryside must have been of such consequences that for nearly a century peace was kept in the land; the Romans manned Hadrian's Wall and the northern tattoed tribes stayed in their grim, brooding hills north of it.


The fourth century erupts in warfare again and in 305 A.D. the Romans fought against "Caledones and other Picts." The northern tribes are now called "Picts" by their enemies, and in the south, Scots, Saxons and Franks also add to the woes of Rome by raiding southern Britain. In 343 A.D. Constans starts a campaign against the Picts and probably entered into a truce with them. In 360 Ammanius Marcellus states that the "Picts were now two peoples - the Dicalydones and Verturiones." That same year, the truce is broken and the Picts, allied with the Scots of Ireland pour through the wall into northern England and are repulsed back. They kept hammering at the wall, and may have in fact joined in a multi- tribal alliance against Rome. In 382-3, allied with the Scots they again invade England, and this time the damage done to the wall and its forts is never repaired although the invaders are driven back by Magnus Maximus. The end of the century brings yet another Pictish invasion, this time met by the great Roman general Stilicho himself, who also manages to send the great Irish hero Niall of the Nine Hostages, scampering back to Ireland.
By 409 the Roman hold on Britain was slipping away, and Britons were told to defend themselves. About this time the Celtic Gaelic tribe of Scots begins settling in the southwest of Scotland, creating the kingdom of Dalriada in Argyll (Oir Ghaedhil or Eastern Gaels). Out of the need to protect themselves from the barbaric Pictish and Scottish hordes, a new kingdom is created by the Britons of Strathclyde, who spoke a Celtic tongue much like their cousins in Wales. By 450 the Picts are pouring into the south again, and the monk Gildas calls them the "foul hordes of Scots and Picts, like dark throngs of worms who wriggle out of narrow fissures in the rock when the sun is high and the weather grows warm." This is the last time we hear of the Picts and Scots fighting as allies, and if we take Gildas literally, the Scots return to Ireland around this time. In 461, St. Patrick dies, but Christianity is well spread in Ireland.
Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2007, 03:16:01 pm »

The Land of the Picts

By studying the Roman accounts of the Pictish Wars as well as later accounts, it appears that the Pictish lands were essentially north of the Forth-Clyde line, north of the Antonine Wall. Roman pacification, and Celtic and Saxon migration from the south would have erased any Pictish claims to people or lands south of the wall. In the west, Pictish presence in Argyll must have disappeared quickly after the arrival of the Scots of Dalriada around 500 A.D., although as evidenced by the standing stone near the entrance to Inveraray castle in Campbell country, they were there at one point in their history. In the north, Pictish influences reached as far north as the islands went and stones have been found in nearly all of them. This land was defended many times after the departure of Rome's legions.  They sometimes lost great battles and huge chunks of land, only to regain it in the vicious warfare of the Dark Ages. In the 7th century the Scots pushed their The Picts fought invasions by the Scots in the west, the Britons and Angles in the south and the Vikings in the north.frontier far north, and a victorious Celtic army came within a half-day march of the Pictish capital of Inverness in the north before it was crushed. In the south, the Angles marched their Teutonic armies north and held Pictish lands for thirty years before they were butchered and sent fleeing south by a united Pictish army.

Although historians disagree on nearly everything which has been written about the Picts, and they disagree on the following, it is thought that the Picts had 69 Kings.

http://members.tripod.com/~Halfmoon/
Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2007, 03:17:24 pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pictish Kings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As one would expect, the information available as to the history of the kings of Pictland or Alba is as full of mystery, legends, hearsay as the origins of the people themselves. The fact is that most of what is known about the kings of this ancient race comes from lists and chronicles generally written by other peoples, some of whom were enemies of the Picts.

The only historical writing which may have been a Pictish version of events is the document known as "The Pictish Chronicle". As the only possibly Pictish-written historical record, it is a sad reminder of the incredible lack of Pictish records, for the Chronicle is nothing more than a list of kings. Thus, historians try to use other documents of the time to attempt to reconstruct and verify some claims from the Chronicle. There are Irish documents and legends, the writings of Bede in 731 A.D. and other missionaries tales, Roman reports, Greek maps, etc.


The Legends

In the beginning of time, there was a Pict king named Cruithne, son of Cing, and Cruithne reigned for 100 years. He had seven sons (the number seven is the key to many Pictish mysteries, and as the work of Jackson shows a key element to understand the Pictish stones - more later). His sons were called Fib, Fidach, Foclaid (or Fotla), Fortrenn, Caitt (or Cat), Ce and Circenn. The names of Cruithne's seven sons were also equated to the seven provinces of Pictland detailed in an ancient account of Scotland called De Situ Albanie (possibly written in the 14th century according to F.T. Wainwright). Of note, Argyll, which was the beachead of the invading Scots, is not listed as a Pictish province.

The list of kings does verify one area which is the largest obstacle to those who seek the Celtification of the Picts - The list delivers clear evidence that the Picts were a matrilinear society - that is: the bloodlines passed through the mother, and rarely did a son succeed a father to the crown of Pictland. This is rare enough in western society and not recorded in any Celtic society (although the Scots, once they assumed the Pictish throne, curiously kept a matrilinear descent of the crown, but within the MacAlpin dynasty). This Pictish matrilinear evidence is confirmed by Bede, who wrote that the Pictish succession went through the female line. Bede also re- affirms the existence (at least at the time of his writing in the mid 700's) of two kingdoms of the Picts - a northern and southern king.

The Historical Kings

Many Pictish kings were named Bridei (or Brude). In the writings of St. Columba's biographer (who was no friend of the Picts) we learn of one of the most powerful of these Bridei kings.

The writer (Adamnan) details the journey of the Irish saint to the court of Bridei near Loch Ness. The legendary monster of the lake makes its historical debut in this same story, and we are told that King Bridei (ruled 554-584) was an exceptionally powerful king. We are also told that Columba needed interpreters to speak to the king, clear evidence that the Picts did not speak the Celtic language of the Irish and Scots (or at the very least not the Gael version of the Celtic tongue). King Bridei also defeated the Scots, in battle against their king Gabran and laid waste to the Scottish holdings in the west. Had he pressed on and expelled the Scots from Argyll, Scotland may still be Pictland or Alba today.

Bridei was succeeded by Gartnait IV, the 37th king in the list, who reigned for about 20 years. Sometime during this period, the son of the defeated Scottish king, Aedan MacGabran (who may have been married to a Pictish princess), began warring against the Picts in his northern frontier (and the Northumbrians to his south) once more. The Scottish king was defeated in his southern expansions, by the great Anglo-Saxon king, Aethelfrid of Northumbria. It was this same Teutonic king who then marched into Pictland and conquered it as far as the Firth of Forth; suddenly, the Picts had a new worry in the nearly invincible Germanic tribes who had conquered most of Celtic England by this time.

Back to the Pictish kings, Gartnait IV followed was Nechtan II, son of Irb (Canonn in the Irish lists). He was succeeded by Ciniath (around 630), son of Lutrin. He was in turn followed by Nechtan III, son of Uid, Bridei/Brude II and Talorc IV. In 637, Pictish warriors may have fought on Irish soil as part of a multinational host of Britons, Saxons, Scots and Picts assembled by the Ulster nobleman Congal Claen to take over the crown of Ireland. Back in the Anglo- Saxon borders, Oswald had become King of Northumbria, and by 668, his brother Oswiu had conquered part of Dalriada and more of southern Pictland. In the free north, another Gartnait had ruled and died in 663 to be succeeded by Drest, who revolted against the Anglo-Saxon invaders, but was crushed by a Northumbrian host led by King Ecgfrith, who had succeeded Oswiu. After the defeat, Drest was removed as a king by another Bridei. This great Pictish king began his reign by taking the great ancient Pictish fortress at Dunnottar in 681.


The modern Dunnottar Castle c. 11th century
He then assembled a Pictish fleet which sailed north and destroyed the growing Orcadian sea power in 682 and finally laying waste to the Scottish capital of Dunnadd in 683. Two years later, on 20 May 685, the Pictish King faced the huge host of the Anglo-Saxon invader on the plains of Dunnichen, in Angus. The battle which followed, called the Battle of Nechtansmere by the English and Dunnichen by Caledonians, remains one of the most significant turning points in ancient history and has shaped the character of the land for the next 1300 years.

It was at Nechtansmere that Bridei made his name great. The invincible Anglo-Saxons had defeated every force which they had faced, and by now had occupied southern Pictland for 30 years. The Picts won that day, and massacred the entire English Anglo-Saxon host including its proud king as well as "cleansing" the land by killing or enslaving the remaining Northumbrians who had settled in Pictland. Had Bridei lost that great battle, the Scotland of today would not exist and all of Britain would have been English.

Bridei was followed by Taran, son of Enfidach and he was in form followed by Brude/Bridei IV, possibly the grandson of the Brude of Nechtansmere fame. He also fought the Northumbrians (this time far south of Pictland) and is thought to have destroyed yet another Northumbrian host and killed a Teutonic sub-king in the Lothians. Legend has it that this King endorsed (along with 51 other tribal kings of Britain) "The Law of the Innocents," which prohibited women from fighting in battle and in turn protected them, children and the clergy from the viciousness of the war itself. It is interesting to know that the "Law" had been proposed by Adamnan, whose mother Irish legend has it was horrified to see Pictish women fight viciously in war and made Adamnan promise that he'd stop women from taking their place on the battlefield. Brude was succeeded on his death in 706 by Nechton mac Derile. It was this King who rejected the Celtic Church and embraced the Roman Church.


After Nechton, the Pictish List King becomes muddled by in-fighting and rapid successions (the ugly problem of matrilinearity and the large numbers of aspiring and eligible would-be kings). In 724 Nechton entered a monastery for a few years and was succeeded by Drust, who was removed two years later by Alpin. In 711 a Pictish army is routed by a Northumbrian host on the plain of Manaw, probably somewhere in West Lothian; this marks the last known threat from these southern neighbors as Northumbrian power declines soon after that and ends with the fall of York to the Danes in 866.

Alpin was in turn replaced by Oengus (Angus), who defeated the old retired king Nechton, as well as his successor Drust, whom he killed in battle in 729. Oengus comes to us as a true warrior king. Upon taking the Pictish throne from his contenders, he turned his attention to the Scottish problem. Together with his son (called Brude) he laid waste to the Scottish fortresses of Dunnadd and others, and after brutalizing the Scots on British soil, he invaded Ireland and massacred them on their ancestral homeland by defeating them in two great battles in 741. Nearly invincible, he captured and drowned the King of Atholl, conquered the remaining Dalriada Scots on Britain and after beheading the Scottish king, became the first King of Picts and Scots.

The great military victories of Oengus once more gave the Pictish nation the chance to rule unhindered by the Scottish menace. The Dalriada Scots had been beaten on Argyll and on Ireland, and a Pict ruled over them as king and liege lord. Drunk with victory and mad with power, Oengus unwisely looked south for more territory to conquer, in the lands of the Britons of Strathclyde, the kingdom formed south of the old Roman Wall. He fought them in 744 and may have defeated them in open battle. Six years later (in 750) he fought them again, in a battle in which the Picts may have been led by his brother Talorcan (possibly in contention for the Pictish throne); in any event, some historians feel that Talorcan, not Oengus may have been leading the Pictish armies. Regardless, Talorcan was killed, as was the British king Tewdur, Son of Beli at the battle of Mocetwawc. The Britons held and Oengus had to retreat. Again in 756 the Pictish King marched his tattooed host south, to the great Briton fortress at Dumbarton Rock, where he was joined by a Northumbrian ally intent on destroying the Strathclyde kingdom. This time the combined armies nearly succeeded in capturing the great rock fortress, but in a stunning reversal, they were nearly destroyed in battle and Oengus retreated north where he died five years later.

His brother Brude V succeeded him for two years, and then Ciniod (who may have had Scottish blood as well as Pictish), son of Wredech reigned until 775. Meanwhile, in the nearly forty years since Dalriada had been wasted by Oengus, the Scots had been rebuilding under the leadership of Aed Finn, son of Eochaid, who by 768 was invading the Pictish territories again. However, a blanket of historical darkness engulfs both Pictish and Scottish history though the latter years of the eight century and the ninth. Nonetheless, according to The Annals of Tigernach, no less that 150 Pictish ships were wrecked by a storm near Ross Crussini, perhaps a hint of a war fleet raised against northern enemies. We also know that Aed Finn repealed Pictish laws and managed to regain freedom for the Scots in 768, and by the time of his death, Dalriada was independent again.

Confusion reigns in the List of Kings now. Three Pictish kings are listed in a period of seven years (Alpin II, Drust VII and Talorc II). He is succeeded by Talorc III, possibly a son of Oengus, and in turn Talorc III is followed by Conall. The next Pictish king was to rule for 35 years, again as the second King of Picts and Scots.

Castantin son of Uurguist possibly won the Pictish throne by defeating and killing Conall and he also wore the crown over the Scots of Dalriada, who by now may have been a significant part of the Pictish royal lines through intermarriage. He was succeeded by his brother Oengus II, who is reputed to have brought the relics of St. Andrews back to Scotland. Oengus II was followed by Drust VIII and Talorc.

Uven, who may have been a son of Oengus II, followed Talorc and is listed as the King of both Picts and Scots. He was killed in 839 by the great new menace in the north, at a great battle where the northern Pictish armies were destroyed by the new enemy: the Vikings. He is the last Pictish king to be recorded in the Irish versions of the list of Pictish kings. Other lists record Uurad, son of Bargot and Brude, son of Ferath. He is followed by Kenneth, son of Ferath and Brude's brother, yet another Brude, son of Fethal and finally Drust IX, yet another son of Fethal.

This list of 69 Pictish kings ended with Drust IX, when he was killed by that dark, shadowy figure of Kenneth MacAlpin, the first Scot to become King of Picts and Scots in an episode known as "MacAlpin's Treason."

Most historians agree that around 839 a huge battle took place in which the Pictish king died while leading his men against the Vikings. This shattering defeat also took the life of his brother (and thus successor to the crown) as well as "others almost without numbers." This decimation of the Pictish warrior class by the Vikings is perhaps the most decisive point which swings the pendulum of control to the Scots. The Pictish defeat at the hands of the Norsemen ranks as the most significant in Pictish history, and was ironically repeated many centuries later by the destruction of the Scottish nobles at Flodden. This culling of the Pictish royal houses and its warrior elite, delivered the decisive shift in the pattern of succession, and handed the Pictish crown to the Scottish House of MacAlpin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://halfmoon.tripod.com/pict2.html
Report Spam   Logged
unknown
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1603



« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2007, 05:51:14 pm »

Interesting Europa
Report Spam   Logged

"There exists an agent, which is natural and divine, material and spiritual, a universal plastic mediator, a common receptical of the fluid vibrations of motion and the images of forms, a fluid, and a force, which can be called the Imagination of Nature..."
Elphias Levi
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 01:34:46 pm »

Thank you, Unknown, as you know, I have always found the Picts to be one of the most interesting of the ancient peoples as well.  Yet another group rumored to have been Atlantean descendents.
Report Spam   Logged
unknown
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1603



« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2007, 09:17:48 pm »

Hi Europa

They are mysterious.
Report Spam   Logged

"There exists an agent, which is natural and divine, material and spiritual, a universal plastic mediator, a common receptical of the fluid vibrations of motion and the images of forms, a fluid, and a force, which can be called the Imagination of Nature..."
Elphias Levi
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 01:33:38 pm »

Putting it midly! 
Report Spam   Logged
Zeptepi
Full Member
***
Posts: 13


« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2007, 06:39:35 am »

Probably one of the most comprehensive studies of the Picts I’ve read for some time!


Hi All,
I’m new here, so this is my first post in this excellent forum, therefore as a Scot with a 800 year old Scottish family history, this thread seems to be the most appropriate place to start.

Who were the Picts?
Over and beyond the introduction on this subject I must state immediately that the Picts were racially no different to the Celts, who in turn are racially no different to the Angles and Saxons.  They were simply different tribes of the same race, who I may add, interacted with each other throughout history.  Of course history lends to us believe that the Picts rose in isolation, determined, savage and isolationist.  This is a very unhelpful historical romanticism, emanating mostly from the Victorian era; where the ‘savage hero’ was seen against the cultivating, civilising elements of Southern Britain.  We should really dismiss this romantic veneer.  The practical history of the Picts is quite something else.

The Picti?
As long ago as 8000BP there have been large organised settlements in the West and North of Scotland reaching up to Orkney  and Shetland Islands and, not surprisingly, across the sea to the west coast of Norway.  Wherever, one sees a sizable inland sea inlet, a Scottish Firth or a Norwegian Fjord you will find their settlements.  This is exactly the same pattern to be found across the rest of Northern Europe.  Again, it should be of no surprise to anyone, that all these settlements traded with one another, establishing an uninterrupted  network of commerce.  That sea borne network  was highly lucrative, family oriented and progressive. 
This is essentially what attracted the Romans to invade Northern Europe and Britain when they did.  I think most historians would agree with this.  What I can never agree with is the Northern Britons being casted by the conquering Romans as a savage, primitive hoard.  Picti!  Indeed, this nothing more unreliable  nonsense. The Northern tribes were simply defending a very long established way of existence.  Technically and socially, these tribes possessed far more adept sea going vessels with a social care system, with elements, that a modern day National Health organisation could probably identify with.  All the Romans could offer was theft of their possessions, disintegration of a civilised way of life and eventual subjugation and in many cases genocide.

I would also like to offer you this for consideration:
When the Romans eventually left Britain around 400AD we are informed that Northern Europe fell into the Dark Ages.  I don’t know how many people today who still believe this to be true.  There was no Dark Age.  What occurred was a renewal of the highly lucrative historic sea trading routes, which explains the later influx of Scandinavian (Viking), Anglo/Saxon tribes into England and Scotland.  They just came back!. Life simply went on as before, this time without the domineering, militaristic control of the Romans.  Unfortunately, our erstwhile academics choose to implant Roman history over the top of a long running and successful society that existed previously.  Our western civilisation, it seems, is still dominated by Roman and the earlier Greek classical themes.  In reality neither had much to do with the rise of Northern European civilisation.  Instead, one could argue, it was interrupted by the presence of the Romans.

Atlantean Tribes?
All I may say here is that those people who arrived in Britain some 8000 years ago, were indeed the from the generations of survivors of a world-wide cataclysm that occurred some 3500 years earlier.  By that time the lands of Britain, Northern Europe and Scandinavia was becoming attractively habitable. Where they came from originally is still, to my mind, up for question.  However, it does appear that these people were highly organised, spiritually blessed with a strong desire to civilise.

Best wishes,
John.

Sorry for not providing any references. I know that’s bad practice.  But why should I?  It is my family history after all. Wink





Report Spam   Logged
Jennifer O'Dell
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4546



« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 03:37:06 am »

Hi Zeptepi,

Great post, I learned a lot. Still, I have to disagree with your idea that there wasn't any Dark Age.  Of course there was.  The Goths sacked Rome and the city (and all the lands that it controlled) slipped back.  Once Rome fell, there was no empire to do the upkeep on all the things they built and so, people ended up building their settlements beside the great Roman ruins, not on top of them.  Christianity also took hold and it did a heck of a job destroying all the knowledge that was accumulated by Classical Greece and Rome, putting religious teachings in their place.  You mentoned the Vikings but they didn't start their raids till something like 793 ad.

I do agree that the Saxxons were a civilizing influence e on Britain, though, and that the Picts are a really under-rated tribe or people.  A really good movie about that (I thought anyway) was the King Arthut movie starring Clive Owen.  All about the Picts and the Saxxons warring when Rome pulled out of Britain...
Report Spam   Logged
Zeptepi
Full Member
***
Posts: 13


« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 08:32:24 am »

No problem with disagreeing – your views are valued.

I’m pleased that you learned something from the post.  My approach is from a social history point of view, one that generally gets missed from the more academic arguments.

The fact you still believe there such a period called the Dark Ages really underlies the fact that past historians were highly effective in delivering their biased views.   Perhaps you should be aware that during the height of the Roman Empire other European histories were being ruthlessly suppressed, much the same as the fascist period of the 20th century.  Who says that the Northern European people were any less sophisticated than the Romans?  Well the Romans did as they believed all else not ‘Romanised’ to be barbarians.  In reality they were not, simply they occupied people living under a very brutal totalitarian regime.  One is mindful of the why the Coliseum in Rome was built.  What was its purpose and what happened within its elaborate structure?  Then one might add, who were the real barbarians!

I feel I must make the point again.  The Picts, Celts and Anglo Saxons were all one of the same people.  The Vikings or the Norse traders, as I like to call them, had been coming to the British Isles long before the 700 to 900 period.  That period is only highlighted by single reference given by the Venerable Bede, a literate Christian monk living in the North of England at the time.  **** & Pillage?  No, not quite.  Most of the Norse traders had permanent settlements in Scotland and England and were not too ready to give up their own historic beliefs for something that came out of Rome.  Here you might wonder:  Is Odin any less of a God than the one presented in the Old Testament? The old inhabitants of Britain didn’t think so.  They were quite a spiritual people already with a moral fortitude that was Christian in everything but name.

I contend that if it wasn’t for the Romans, despite all their technological sciences, Europe would have achieved their Renaissance far earlier than the did.

King Arthur.  The movie.  Yes, very enjoyable but not very historically accurate.  Much like Brave heart some years earlier.

Best wishes,
John. 

Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 01:15:30 pm »

Hi Zeptepi & welcome,

Quote
The Vikings or the Norse traders, as I like to call them, had been coming to the British Isles long before the 700 to 900 period.  That period is only highlighted by single reference given by the Venerable Bede, a literate Christian monk living in the North of England at the time.  **** & Pillage?  No, not quite.  Most of the Norse traders had permanent settlements in Scotland and England and were not too ready to give up their own historic beliefs for something that came out of Rome.

Great information, but do you have a source for this?  It's the first time I have run across it, and I've always found early Viking history to be a bit more sketchy than that of other cultures. I would like to learn more about that. 

Also, if you have any more information on the origins on the Picts, that would be appreciated as well. 

All the best,

Europa
Report Spam   Logged
Europa
Administrator
Superhero Member
*****
Posts: 4318



« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 01:33:49 pm »



A replica of the Hilton of Cadboll Stone.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy