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Crowds march to demand pullout from Iraq

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Question: Do you still support the war in Iraq?
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I never supported it to begin with

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Author Topic: Crowds march to demand pullout from Iraq  (Read 525 times)
Jeremy Dokken
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2007, 01:04:58 am »

I remember having a conversation with Merlin a few months ago wherein he suggested that all the violent verses in the Koran were taken out if context.  I told him that the verses were in the Koran regardless and that Islam is far from a peaceful religion.  Hard to believe why anyone even tries to make the argument to the contrary.
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19Merlin69
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2007, 03:30:16 pm »

I remember having a conversation with Merlin a few months ago wherein he suggested that all the violent verses in the Koran were taken out if context.  I told him that the verses were in the Koran regardless and that Islam is far from a peaceful religion.  Hard to believe why anyone even tries to make the argument to the contrary.

It shouldn't be hard to believe when you take note of the millions - possibly BILLION+  Muslim that do not subscribe to the violent interpretation of the doctrine.  It makes it real easy for me to take that position when you the facts are considered...  It also helps when you are reading the Qur'an in English to realize that most translations were done so with a severe bias.  In fact, most (if not all) translations offered in the media as "proof" of violence are taken from sources other than Muslim translators.  As I have demonstrated in the other forum, much of what we believe the book says - it really doesn't.  I offer a link for you to view the various deifferences if you are really interested:  http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Mahmoud Ineedajihad is really making a mockery of the western media these days; albeit - lefthandedly.  He is betting that he can make himself look good in the eyes of his Muslim countrymen and neighbors, and the British people will ultimately begin blaming this whole affair on the government for being in Iraq.  He's taking advantage of the press, and he's loving every minute of it.  The funny thing is, just like the hostage crisis in Iran years ago - the government wasn't the culprit.  Heck - they probably don't even have control of the 15 Marines and sailors - the ultra-rightwing revolutionary guard does.  Eventually the press will realize that they were as much a part of this mess as the governments were, but ultimately they won't care that they made it worse - not better. 

If you ever wonder why so many of them hate the Western World, you really need to look no further than the dialouge running in this and many other forum threads.  Christian, Pagan, Jew or redneck - it all sounds much them same a lot of the time...

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19Merlin69
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2007, 03:39:52 pm »

I dare to add, that this shows, what you understand as "interpretation":
For you, simple ignorance is interpretation!!!
Your "interpretation" of Christianity is very modern, but totally wrong.
And therefore you couldn't understand, what I have said,
and what is going on.

Welcome to my world.

This is a clear threat: That modern western world, which got rid of
a "real" religion, now is not able to understand, what is going on
with Islam, since they cannot understand religion at all any more.

You (!) are the problem, and the battle field are the brains of the voters
in the western world.

Well, not her in particular, but that mindset for sure.  I've been down this path already.  It's a long and winding cul-de-sac that never leads anywhere.  Without seeing it first hand, many of the people here will always maintain that Islam is synonymous with terrorism - though they claim otherwise.  They forget that terrorism has existed without Islam at its heart for thousands of years and wore cloaks from Christian, Buddhist, Pagan, and Hindu closets.  Fundamentalism-extremisim is bad for everyone, no matter where it comes from, but for now, people can only see two sides of the story:  Islam & Not-Islam.

Good luck with your efforts.
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Kristina
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2007, 04:17:13 pm »

Merlin, your quote actually applies more to Cicero than myself, seems to subscribe to the mentality that Muslims are more apt to be terrorists than westerners.

Quote from Cicero:


Quote
But a moderate Muslim is much more easily growing a non-moderate Muslim
than a moderate Christian to a non-moderate Christian,
or a moderate non-Christian to a non-moderate non-Christian.
The Islam is clearly totally different.
What to say, if "modern", educated Muslims go mad from one day to the other
and murder their wife or sister ...? This is not comparable to Christianity
and western world ideas. Not at all. It is a clear threat.
You cannot extinct what is written without any doubt in Quran.
There is no space for interpretation. Only for ignorance.
And ignorance of Quran as a source of moderate views is a bad source,
which gives no stability and no security, to what a mind will change,
who wants to be muslim. Everything is possible.

Now then, the subject of "interpretation."

Who's interpretation?  When either the Muslims or the Christians ever subscribe to a single interpretation of either the Bible of the Koran, by all means, let me know.  Far as I have heard, after two thousand years, there has yet to be an interpretation that everyone agrees one.  In fact, the whole idea that there is happens to be a falsehood.
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19Merlin69
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2007, 06:19:58 am »

I wasn't being critical of you Kristina - I was speaking of the Western world's interpretation in general.  Like I said, "not her per se."  And, when I said "here" - I was referring to the States, not Atlantis Online.  My apologies if you thought I was referring to you personally.

Part of what keeps us at odds with the Muslim world is our stark contrast in thinking.  We assume that "we" are good Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans - and that the fundamentalists are good Muslims.  They assume that we are as fundamentally screwed up as "we" can be and that they aren't.  All-in-all, the fundies of every sort (Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, etc., etc.) are as out of line with their teachings as the rest and should not be considered as "the norm". 

No one wants to judge the actions of a group by their "average" citizen - only by thier "radicals".  It's like judging the Christians by the KKK...  That was my point.
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cicero
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 03:28:19 pm »

Meanwhile I changed my mind:

There could - could! - be a trustworthy interpretation of Islam excluding the nasty things,
because the beginnings of Islam were clearly different than the traditional interpretations tell us.
And it is always the beginning of a religion, which is the source of real reform ...
- but of course, these traditional interpretations are strong, and such a reformed interpretation
is not prevailing, now, but living only in some books of single academicians,
mostly at western universities, not in the streets of Gaza, Riad, Teheran, Berlin or Paris.
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