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News: THE SEARCH FOR ATLANTIS IN CUBA
A Report by Andrew Collins
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/atlantiscuba.htm
 
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Plato's Atlantis

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Tom Hebert
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2007, 06:28:29 am »

Why does Georgeos have this mesmerizing effect on women?
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Qoais
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2007, 06:37:49 pm »

Hey Tom
Mesmerized?  Are you kidding?  We've been fighting tooth and nail.  I made a boo boo tho, and only read one translation of Plato.  I had been following a theory of my own and was trying to use logic to follow the evidence Smiley  I was told that logic was not an acceptable form of research!  Then in my travels, I read where the Amazons attacked their neighbors the Atlanteans.  Hmm.  If Atlantis was an island, how could they have neighbors?  I concluded that Atlantis may NOT have been an island.  So I keep searching.  Then very recently, I come across Georgeos in AR saying that the word nesos did not necessarily mean "island" but could mean peninsula, alluvial land, or a number of different things meaning possibly "remote" or whatever.  This fit with the theory I was working on, but I was looking at Libya and the western end of Africa, being as how this was "remote" from the rest of Africa, being cut off with the Atlas mountains.

Then I stared for hours and hours at the satellite shots of the Strait of Gibralter and surrounding areas.  I was trying to picture how the land might have been before the shorelines all sunk into the ocean.  I had studied the naval surveys of the area and the findings they made regarding the debris in the bottom of the ocean and found it to be millions of years old.  No Island of recent fate.  More and more it was looking like Atlantis was a large piece of land alright, and it had a piece that was super beautiful where the temple was built and the rings around it.  It had to be somewhere where the mountains form a collar around it on three sides, and then reach down to the ocean, encircling a great plain. 

I think that the artists' depiction of Atlantis is misleading in that they try to show this island (the man made one) as the whole of Atlantis divided up into 10 parts.  It wasn't  This manmade island and surrounding area belonged to Atlas.  It was the REST of the land that was divided up into the 9 remaining portions.  It even says that the outer ring of land was a race track.  Not exactly farm land!

I'm not going to post everything I've looked into, as I'm still working on a few details.  I'm not sure how much more time I'm going to spend on the details tho, and this was basically, just a search for my own self-satisfaction.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2007, 07:18:06 pm »

Oh, okay.  As long as you know what you're doing...   Wink
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Boreas
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2007, 11:06:55 pm »

Hi again Q.

A couple of years ago I made a comment to the question of the translation of the word "neshos"at the AR. Luckily I found it back...


Island or Peninsula?

Plato's expresion "larger than Libya and Asia" seem to refers to the areas of Libya and "Asia Minor", that being todays Libya, Egypt and Palestine/Israel. In that case Platos text clearly points to an island OR a peninsula of subcontinental size. In Platos words the nature of this land is expressed as a "NHSOS" or "Nęsos". The issue today is of our understanding of this Greek word "Nessos", which root (obviously) is "Nes".
 
If we go back to the oldest Indo-European language known the expression "NES" relate directly to the Latin/English expression "penninsula". In Northern Europe "NES-A" means "nose" - and the relation between the nature of a nose can be recognized in the conture of a land, whose face to the sea have an extention  , strectching out through the water.  Whatever this water is a lake, a sea or an ocean such "nose" of the land is always called a "nes".  Thus you may find placenames all througout Scandinavia ending with "- nes" o "naes". One of Georgios students one mentioned the Greek name "Nessos Allas", - which I refer to the Chronian Sea and The Gulf of Vineland.

Today we know that during ice-time the entire sub-continent of Fenno-Scandia have been an island. When the ice-caps finally disappeared the old seafloor between Finland and Russia quickly arose from its ice and water. Consequently we got a "new land" - in the form of an aluvial plain between Finland and Russia. Today this area is populated, cultivated and named "Carelia" - being a huge area of lush lowland between the Chronian Sea and The White Sea. Connecting the old Atlantean island with the Russian continent the lands progression made the Scandinavian NES. The result may still be seen, as present Scandinavia is - in fact - a VERY large Penninsula - or "Nhessos".


Larger than Egypt and Asia?

During ice-time we find that Fenno-Scandia actually WAS an enormous island - at the size of "Egypt and Asia together". As the ice-age ended cataclysmically - this entire area was overrun by giantic massives of frozen water.  When the surviving Atlanteans and their agriculture - started to reach southern Europe, the sub-continent of Fenno-Scandia had become a penninsula. And it is still bigger than the present area of Libya, Egypt and Asia minor - all together.

The island of Gotland has been explained to be the single one place were this arctic culture was escaping the cataclysms of the ending ice-time. In boats. With all the domestic plants and animals that later came to be shipped to Crete - and further around the globe...

Rockessence once noted that the old Greeks used the term Nhesos to name the Arabian Penninsula, as well as the Iberian land. Thus we may conclude that in classic Greek the term NHESOS was used to describe also large penninsulas. The semantic studies of Georgeos de Montexano has shown that the term "Nęsos" actually had been used to express the realm of an "peninsula". On the western side of Europe we find the latin equivalent "insula" - in the context of  "pen-insula". In NW Europe this is called "half-island" (olde English),  "head-land" (classic English) or "peninsula" (French-English).

Back to old Greek, Perseus Tufts translation of Plato seem to agree;

nęsos , Dor. nasos , hę, island, Il.2.721, etc.; en tai megalai Dôridi nasôi Pelopos, i.e. the Peloponnese, S.OC696; makarôn nęsoi, v. makar; hai n. the islands of the Archipelago, Ar.Eq.1319, X.HG4.8.1; kai pôs gunę . . nęson amphiennutai; Anaxil.35 (cf. perinęsos): heterocl. gen. pl. nęsaôn Call.Del.66

2. land flooded by the Nile, PHib. 1.90.7 (iii B.C.), etc.; opp. ępeiros, PGiss.60 (ii A.D.); nęsoi potamophorętoi POxy.1445.13 (ii A.D.); so of alluvial land in Tab.Heracl. 1.38.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2370770

In northern Europe the word "Nes" was always connected to what in modern English is called "Headland" or "Penninsula". But - the history behind the english language and the word "island" can be traced back through the way of migration - the one that once brougth the Indo-European culture and language to the Brittish Isles.


Ey-land and Islanders, Pelagos and the Pelagesians

Originally the word for island constisted of ONLY one letter - describing one clear sound of the Norse Aphabet with the primary association to their nature - as the basic element of the people that populated the northern arch-i-pelagos'. Thus the sound and letter is written "ö" (sounding like "oe"). The letter "ö" is also a direct, graphic picture of what the sound is ment to relate to; the circle O represent the (ring-) land, while the two dots is a symbolic picture of (two) islands - existing "outside" the perifery of a (main)land.

In Finland and Sweden they still say and write "Ö", - such as in the geographical name of "Ö-land", Swedens second largest "island-land". According to Dr. Felice Vinci the Greeks wrote "Ö" as
"Eu", like in Eu-bo-ea, where "bo" means living/home and "ea" connotates to ar-ea. But - they stil use "pela-go" as the common word for island, which - btw - gives a hint of the origins of the firts Greeks, called Pelgasians. With the most ancient monuments of the entire Mediterranean, Knossos of Crete, in mind we may agree that this pelago was the cultural birth-place of the Hellenic culture, before these "islanders" spread the Hellenic culture througout the Pele-po-NESOS and thus mainland Greece.

West of the Baltics the Gotic Norwegians changed to "öy". Further west it became "ey" - as in "Orkan-ey".  Even further west we find "ei" - as in Ice-land and on the Feroes. Ultimately we get "ai" in Old English - that today is written "I" with a mute "s".  The "evolution" of the northern languages are also showing a very simple and clear logic as it follows the migrational spread of the populating migration - from the strands of the Baltic to the shores of the Atlantean islands; from the Nordic spelling:
ö-öy-ey-ei-ai  to the modern, "latin-english" spelling "Is".

Reflection of an ancient mother-tongue?!

Back in west-coast Scandinavia they still call that very same form of land "half-ey" or "naes", while the Baltic population still call it "ness" or - most commonly; "NES".

Considering the strong relations that have been proven to exist between the earliest boat-culters of the Baltic and the Mediterranean area, there is a similar connection between the mythos of the Baltic AS-HEL culture and the ancient HEL-AS culture of the "Middle-Ocean", today known as the Medi-terran-ea.

Thus we may expect that the old Greek spelling "NHS-OS" (read; "nessos") relates to the same semantic impact of the old Scandianvian word "NES". Which still is pronounced NAES, meaning "penninsula" or "nose" - of the old mother-tongue found in all Scanidnavian populations.

Finally we may conclude that among the penninsulas that is big enough to equal Libya, Egypt and the Levant all together must be at least the size of todays Iberia, Arabia or Fenno-Scandia. Since modern satelites have revealed that no such land-mass exists on any ocean-floor, we may have to keep looking for a penninsula that have been sinking AND rising again, - already.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 11:50:23 pm by Boreas » Report Spam   Logged

Gens Una Sumus
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2007, 11:56:27 pm »

Hi Boreas
Wow, that was cool reading Smiley  Some Ior Bock like stuff.  If you've been reading my posts, you know I've been all over the place looking for some logic to follow to find out what Plato was actually talking about.  I had been thinking that the time-lines in the story were actually a woven piece of fabric.  In other words, that Plato was interweaving the distant past, with the not to distant past, with the relatively recent past.  Writing down the history of humans much like the Bocks kept it alive orally, and threw in a battle for good entertainment.  Except - there's so many details missing about this battle.  So - since the ancient Egyptians wrote down everything that was important whether in their land or other lands, I suspect one of these wandering oralist that Ior Bock talks about, told the story and a priest was in attendance and wrote it down.  Safely locked away in the archives for ages.  For some reason, Solon was gifted with the story - maybe the old priest had a feeling he too would record it for posterity as he says it was for Solon's sake as well as for his country's sake that he was relating the story.  It's just so detailed about Atlantis, that you wonder why he bothered with the battle at all. 

In the Urantia Book it tells about the first ever city on earth - which was in the Persian Gulf.  The U Book regretably, didn't go into detail about the design of the city,( well - to a point it did and it was divided in portions and in the centre was a temple) but it did say that there were canal works that were used as an assist for protection after boats were built, as part of the army/navy.  The Sumerian tablets tell of Enki and Enlil and also their sister Ninhursag, building cities of their own.  I can't remember exactly where each one was now, but the Anunnaki also built a space port on the Sinai Peninsula.  This is where Gilgamesh was trying to get to so he could catch a flight to the home planet and live with the "gods".  Enki had a laboratory in Southern Africa somewhere, and established a mining colony in the Antarctic - it was not covered with ice at that time.

So I got to wondering if Plato's story was a history of mankind since the early beginning.  Ior Bock's Saga tells of an original land in the North that was more temperate.  Basically at the North Pole before the earth tilted on it's axis.  But before I looked farther into that theory, I wanted to see if logic would allow that the story was real for the time indicated - and not just a history.  I find that actually, most of it fits so far, but there are some details to be worked out.  I know many learned minds have decided it WAS just a story, while of course there are tons of people still out there looking!

I started out doing this for fun, so didn't keep notes on the points of logic and all the places I looked for information.  I guess if I wanted to write a paper on it, I'd have to go back and almost do it all over again.  I haven't finished working on other angles yet either.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Tom Hebert
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 05:45:10 am »

Hi Qoais,

After reading Timaeus and Critias many times, I have come to a similar conclusion about Plato's Atlantis.  I believe he blended a much earlier geological event with a more contemporary description of their culture.  I'm not sure why Plato did this, but I believe he felt a need to complete the story.  In other words he decided to "fill in the blanks."

I don't think he ever imagined that we would be picking apart every word of this account 2000 years later.  That's why I prefer to look a the story as a whole rather than getting bogged down in the details.  I am willing to give Plato creative liscense, but I am not willing to say that he was a befuddled old man who didn't know the difference between 900 and 9000, got his land measurements all mixed up and didn't have a clue as to where the Pillars of Hercules were.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 02:14:56 pm by Tom Hebert » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 08:17:43 am »

DEAR, TOM Hebert,

PLATO made his Atlantis Saga in 366 bc, for the Birthday festivals of King/Tyrant Dionyssos-1 who's son: Dionyssos-2, house teacher he was.


For the Persian Censors who ruled Athens through the 30 tyrants, after it's devastation by a Persian Occupation in 399 bc, Plato had to hide the Fact that in essence the Atlantis-Saga was 100% punic.  Why what persian Censors? is the frequently asked comments I got!


With the Atlantis Saga every atlantologist thinks that Plato took the landslide of the corynthian Capital HELICE in 425 bc as an example for Atlantis demise!
But in the political scene of Plato's days apart from the "Republic" Dialogue one is not intrested .


In 415 bc about 10.000 athenian mariners( which were to be Plato's "sudden large force that appeared unprovoked at the scene to attack'Atlantis') got lost during the ill-fated"RAID -on-SYRACUSE" at Syracuse-Cicilly,  and starved in the Marble-Quarries there.
This made the Punicians an arch-enemy & a scapegoat for the 'brave'Athenians.


In Plato's hometown, Athens, the government called the "Pryttaneans"would exile him, to Egypt,  or kill him over publishing this punic-Saga, like it did with his masterteacher Solon, when the latter introduced Zoroastric teachings into the greek Religion.


So, to avoid the punicstory, as a -foreign Saga-detection,  Plato invented a fake egyptian origin and allowed us the first recorded insight in the geneaqology of very seldomly inscripted, a Non-Royal commoners family.


The 9000 versus the 900 years version is a hoax too: Plato himself had to exxaggerate these figures otherways he would give his game away.


There was no Atlantis divided in 10 parts nor were there 10 Kings, these were just 10 or maybe ust 5 Allotments to only TWO(team-)kings which were also at loggerheads:


The question of Bigger than and "In-Between Lybia & Asia was/ is solved by the cunning of GEORGEOSwho spotted the wrong translation with G.Burry( 1925) of Cambridge,    As Ganalopoulos & Marinatos did in 1969 & 1935 on Thera/Santorino, in Greece


Atlas= Prome-theus &Atlas=Epi-metheus  and sometimes Atlas=Chretheus added
For 2.000 years people/scholarly readers thought that Poseidon divided his Lands amongst 3 Kings Atlas; Prometheus & Epimetheus but it is obvious even to one who does not speak greek that the First word is a Royal title not a name


Indeed Plato mixed two events together that were inreality 200 years apart for Atlantis existed only 200 years inbetween it's birth with the Decalion Flood and it's demise with the Ogygos-Flood!  Thus inbetween 1075-855 bc.


The story of Genesis is of Adam and his wicked brother Seth which were nonother than: Epimetheus and Prometheus who were BOTH styled "Kings of Atlantis"so that it is hard to say to which of these two'Atlasses belong their 'wicked'deeds!


Of this Genesis-of Atlantis saga exist a unsuspected Doublett in the form of the Story of ISAAK & ISHMAHAL who are also: Prometheus & Epimetheus.


When Abraham ( equivalent to the Greek King: Agenor.)appointed Ishmahal to the Kingship of 'Atlantis'Isaac followed chute.   The misunderstood Phrase "To offer a son for the Priesthood by killing his worldly spirit did not meant that Abraham was to kill either of his sons for the worship of YAHWEH(= Ra-Ammon.)he just took them to the Templeschool to become scholars or atleast educated princes!


As for the date and size of the non-Mythical Atlantis it pays to observe that detaile of the Figures: that, to all were added indiscriminately a decimal-figure
I you ,as is the custom, don't believe me let's observe the "Evidence"of a fake Story:


10 Island( thus only ONE!) with 10 rivers; 10 artificial canals, 10 Kings, 2000 x 3000 Stades(= one stade=600 feet)2.million inhabitants( which makes for 200.000 inhabitants per"island" 20.000 soldiers and 10.000 war-Chariots seems tiny in comparision!   And at last: 10.000 years ago( which should be rather: 1000 bc which I pinpointed by me, at : 1075- 855 bc.) the 9.000 -900 is an intermittant figure.


For a keen observer which the persian censors were not, Plato even used a well known MYTH the one of Danaos & Egyptos ( Or: Danaus & Egyptus.)in which Danaos = Epimetheus & Egyptos = Prometheus, this sheds a totally differend light on the good fortunes the"Fire"(of WAR!) that Prometheus stole from the Suncart of the Gods!


Danaos was THE king Atlas -of-Gades( actually a greek rendering of the original"Punic": Kadesh! sole name for Jerusalem of Sion.))and the Jeallous Egyptos who got the raw deal wanted to take this City from his brother!   In greek History however Danaos became known as:"Poseidon and Egyptos as"Zeus" In the Bible Ezdras made the to"God(=Egyptos)-who rebuked-Adam(=Danaos) wanting to become God!")actualy it was the otherway around


Danaos was appointed God of the City(=City-God) by their Father THOT-Belos and Prometheus was appointed King-Warior) or Warrior King but not"God".


Moreover Danaos-Poseidon was split in two distinct persons: Poseidon & after his villification or demonisation, Danaos also became known as:"HADES"  which was also the name given to: ATLANTIS, after it's demise.


Now, Where about was ATLANTIS- HADES?
I already surmized that Atlantis was Kadesh which is the original name of Jerusalim( via Hagio-Polis) this became corrupted by the greeks into Ras-Adon or Pos-Aidon", which is noneother than the present town of: Ras-ADEN(=EDEN.) 

Did you time how long it took to find Atlantis for You?


Sincerely   Cry  "BlueHue"   Cry







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( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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