Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-03-2005 03:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucy Fur! My new best friend (ask abs)
Welcome aboard Lucy Fur, may your reign be forever sweet to your followers..
Abs, I think Tippy and I should go and picnic or something, and leave you standing on the street corner, preaching your fire and brimstone.
Irrigardless of how others have tolerated you, and been rather kind and accepting toward you, you still insist on being a self-righteous heretic, fresh from Urantia College.
Care to explain this?
(since when have I ever taken a REAL stab at you? I haven't called YOU a child of Satan, and then expounded a million reasons why it is so, have I?)
Lay off the hot sauce, Aby...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
Brig
Administrator
Member # 802
Rate Member posted 01-03-2005 05:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abs is very young, Give him time to grow in wisdom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 9139 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-03-2005 08:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have common ground Tippy,
I asked you how your views correspond with the above Lucifer manifesto. You haven't answered.
I don't know you, all I can go on is what you write.
Why is it that people like you go off spouting religious bulls**t and then acuse others of being religious fanatics or foaming at the mouth?
If you have somehow become disillusioned because you were brought up on fairytales like most others including myself it doesn't necessarily mean that the truth is not out there; even if it sometimes comes in unorthodox attire as did Jesus for the Jews.
God doesn't take days off and He certainly doesn't cease to enlighten mankind. Epochal revelation is different. That only happens at different peaks of mankinds development.
You of course are too smart and street wise to fall for that nonsense. Besides, why would an astute deep thinker like yourself wish to be involved with the life of an automaton.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-03-2005 09:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting turn of events has occured, I no longer appear to be the target of Absonites arrows, but rather, now Tippy (my beloved puppy) is the target.
I'm starting to feel a little rejected, honestly...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
Dorian Gray
Member
Member # 192
Member Rated:
posted 01-03-2005 10:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I one of Lucifer's children? Or like, a second cousin or something?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3576 | From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-03-2005 11:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tippy:
If an angel can 'fall' - so can anyone who takes up temporary spiritual residence in heaven. Yes - temporary - because if you pay close attention to the Bible stories - that is all that can be hoped for - a temporary respite until one of you has a thought of your own - and hence, not a thought of God's and - wheeeeee...... - here we all go again - right back where we started from.
The only thing that could possibly stop that scenario is if your spirit, once in its heavenly abode, is nothing more than a mindless robot - never thinking, never feeling.
Otherwise - we are going to repeat this silly game millions and millions of times - if we haven't already.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.
132:2.5 Goodness is always growing toward new levels of the increasing liberty of moral self-realization and spiritual personality attainment -- the discovery of, and identification with, the indwelling Adjuster. An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one's fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father's will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him.
132:2.6 As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p132.htm 195:6.8 Materialism reduces man to a soulless automatonÊ and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a Master Mathematician? Science may expatiate on the conservation of matter, but religion validates the conservation of men's souls -- it concerns their experience with spiritual realities and eternal values.
195:6.9 The materialistic sociologist of today surveys a community, makes a report thereon, and leaves the people as he found them. Nineteen hundred years ago, unlearned Galileans surveyed Jesus giving his life as a spiritual contribution to man's inner experience and then went out and turned the whole Roman Empire upside down.
195:6.10 But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression.
195:6.11 To say that mind "emerged" from matter explains nothing. If the universe were merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth, beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish goodness.
195:6.12 Science may be physical, but the mind of the truth-discerning scientist is at once supermaterial. Matter knows not truth, neither can it love mercy nor delight in spiritual realities. Moral convictions based on spiritual enlightenment and rooted in human experience are just as real and certain as mathematical deductions based on physical observations, but on another and higher level.
195:6.13 If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.
195:6.14 The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone.
195:6.15 The finite universe of matter would eventually become uniform and deterministic but for the combined presence of mind and spirit. The influence of the cosmic mind constantly injects spontaneity into even the material worlds.
195:6.16 Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing "the Father's will." And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.
195:6.17 The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God. And every scientific discovery demonstrates the existence of both freedom and uniformity in the universe. The discoverer was free to make the discovery. The thing discovered is real and apparently uniform, or else it could not have become known as a thing.
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p195.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
Tippy
Member
Member # 2282
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 04:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have common ground Tippy,
I asked you how your views correspond with the above Lucifer manifesto. You haven't answered.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am nothing like the manifesto you posted above - and I would be willing to bet neither is ducky, although he humored you in saying so.
In your story - Lucifer knew full well what the truth was - then, and only then, did he deny it. No human on Earth has that knowledge - not me, ducky, or you. the best any of us can do is surmise, read, study and choose from one of thousands of belief systems, or create our own.
Lucifer defied knowingly. If you can not see the difference - I truly am sorry for you.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know you, all I can go on is what you write.
Why is it that people like you go off spouting religious bulls**t and then acuse others of being religious fanatics or foaming at the mouth?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't spout religious BS - you do. I do, however, use religious doctrine to support my arguments. Not as a belief system - but as fact-based argument.
I debate religion the same way I would debate what occured in the "Lord of The Rings" and how it differs from "Harry Potter".
Whether or not I ascribe to a religion does not preclude my debating.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have somehow become disillusioned because you were brought up on fairytales like most others including myself it doesn't necessarily mean that the truth is not out there; even if it sometimes comes in unorthodox attire as did Jesus for the Jews.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that is absolutely true. Somewhere there IS a truth. But you, yourself, have seen the err of Christianity - you may one day see the err of Urantia in the same way. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. And remember, people are at different levels of advancement.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God doesn't take days off and He certainly doesn't cease to enlighten mankind. Epochal revelation is different. That only happens at different peaks of mankinds development.
You of course are too smart and street wise to fall for that nonsense. Besides, why would an astute deep thinker like yourself wish to be involved with the life of an automaton.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stree wise? My husband would argue that.
I am a spiritual person, what I learned, where and how, isn't up for discussion right now. But I am not a religious person.
You are putting yourself in a precarious position because you are promoting a fringe belief and you are attacking others as if they were devoid of any religious knowledge - or intellect to research.
You would get more respect if you would cease the posting of passage after passage after passage from Urantia - and put it in your own words.
Where is your heart? Why do you feel the way you do?
I understand you are very young. I think you are a bright person with a lot of potential. You will one day be a success.
But, keep an open mind.
I have had years of deistic and theistic study under my belt. In real life - the debates rarely surface. Here, online, they blow out of all proportion.
I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I really like you, despite your attacks. I'm just trying to tell you that there is a better way - a kinder way - a more subtle way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 102 | From: Billings, MT | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |
Tippy
Member
Member # 2282
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 04:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting turn of events has occured, I no longer appear to be the target of Absonites arrows, but rather, now Tippy (my beloved puppy) is the target.
I'm starting to feel a little rejected, honestly...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel free to jump right in. The pool is big enough for all of us to swim....
BTW - I'm making vegetarian cuisine for the picnic. Wine, cheese, Italian breads and salads, with some delectable pastries for dessert.
But, it's colder'n a witches' tit where I live - so we shall have to go South, err our goblets will be sportin' icicles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 102 | From: Billings, MT | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-04-2005 08:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice retort Tippy,
I see you are finally growing a brain. That hasn't been evident before. A kinder, more gentle, more subtle way? This I suppose you adapted from nation. Who was that Bush sr. or Regans writers? I wasn't looking for a kinder, gentler nation. I am also not running for any office and from whom whould I seek such respect? The pillars of wisdom, Mars or the Duck? My methods produced exactly the results and controversy I looked for and acheived. As Mick said, You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, ......
Respect and Truth are for the most part 2 different animals. When Jesus made his 'Last Temple Discourse" which led to the final unanimous decision to finally arrest and kill him, do you really think he did not know what he was doing or what the results would be? He could do nothing less than speak the truth and accept the cup.
The bible does not have that talk, on the whole Earth, only the hocus pocus scam, the Urantia papers have it word for word.
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p175.htm It is too bad that Christianity has beat you up so badly that you cannot even now recognize truth when it subtley knocks on your door. Perhaps it is simply that you lack the tools for intelligent research or even more, that you are not really looking for the truth. You have been abused and now look for the scam in everything.
I don't know what the familial relationships of the Sadlers or Kellogs were and I hesitate to take your spurious research as fact. But, even if so, do you really think that Jesus, friend of publicans and sinners, and saviour of even the prostitute Mary whould care one whit about those mortal relationships in the continued presentation of truth? Even though you are incorrect about believing He channeled anything in this regard, your off the cuff ridicule of him waiting for 1900 years to clarify and correct is simply another of your puerile erroneous conclusions as is your assumption that one day I will see the err of Urantia and also your assumption that I am so young. What's that,.... 3 strikes for you?
He did enough in the intervening 1900 years for any planet to progress. The outpouring of his spirit, the "Spirit of Truth" as well as the Spirit of his Father which now indwells all mankind, even you. These mysteries of the spirit world apparently need time to work their way throughout mankind generation by generation until mankind is ripe for an enlargement of truth. And judging from responses such as yours, perhaps 1900 years was a bit premature. But then again this revelation was not meant for this generation, but as a foundation to shape all future generations.
so, Tippy if this message is received in the same way as Jesus himself was received by the new Sanhedrin members, like yourself, the results may be similar, ...... and those results turned the whole world upside down, even in it's distorted; adulterated form.
Ok, you can go back now to the inane ramblings of social intercourse and winning friends and influencing people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
Tippy
Member
Member # 2282
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 09:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice retort Tippy,
I see you are finally growing a brain. That hasn't been evident before.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<sigh> It just wouldn't be you if you didn't start out with an insult, would it?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A kinder, more gentle, more subtle way? This I suppose you adapted from nation. Who was that Bush sr. or Regans writers? I wasn't looking for a kinder, gentler nation. I am also not running for any office and from whom whould I seek such respect?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try yourself. Flinging out insults and condemning folks is not a sign of a very high self-esteem.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pillars of wisdom, Mars or the Duck? My methods produced exactly the results and controversy I looked for and acheived.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, if you were looking to turns folks away from Urantia - you achieved it alright. :
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Mick said, You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, ......
Respect and Truth are for the most part 2 different animals. When Jesus made his 'Last Temple Discourse" which led to the final unanimous decision to finally arrest and kill him, do you really think he did not know what he was doing or what the results would be? He could do nothing less than speak the truth and accept the cup.
The bible does not have that talk, on the whole Earth, only the hocus pocus scam, the Urantia papers have it word for word.
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p175.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, before you can rattle off Urantial passages as fact - you need to establish why Urantia is the truth. You have not done that yet.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is too bad that Christianity has beat you up so badly that you cannot even now recognize truth when it subtley knocks on your door. Perhaps it is simply that you lack the tools for intelligent research or even more, that you are not really looking for the truth. You have been abused and now look for the scam in everything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christianity did not beat me up. When I discovered the err in its midst - I left it. I became stronger because of that. I would still like to know why Urantia is the truth? Where is your proof?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know what the familial relationships of the Sadlers or Kellogs were and I hesitate to take your spurious research as fact. But, even if so, do you really think that Jesus, friend of publicans and sinners, and saviour of even the prostitute Mary whould care one whit about those mortal relationships in the continued presentation of truth?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus has channeled more works than just the Urantia Papers since His death, you know. At least according to the various authors who make the claim. My question to you is why would He even need to channel anything? Why not just appear to everyone? Why such a mystery? All the cloak and dagger acts take away some of the belief factor, wouldn't you say?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though you are incorrect about believing He channeled anything in this regard, your off the cuff ridicule of him waiting for 1900 years to clarify and correct is simply another of your puerile erroneous conclusions as is your assumption that one day I will see the err of Urantia and also your assumption that I am so young. What's that,.... 3 strikes for you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assumed nothing. I was informed you were young. You may want to read the thread more carefully before you go off half-cocked next time.
I can understand your blind devotion and brain-washed attitude if you are young. And I put your tenacity into perspective. But if you are past 20 - that's an entirely different story.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He did enough in the intervening 1900 years for any planet to progress. The outpouring of his spirit, the "Spirit of Truth" as well as the Spirit of his Father which now indwells all mankind, even you. These mysteries of the spirit world apparently need time to work their way throughout mankind generation by generation until mankind is ripe for an enlargement of truth. And judging from responses such as yours, perhaps 1900 years was a bit premature.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh really? Are you suggesting that He actually wants to see us "suffer" so we can more fully adore Him? What do you mean by, "mankind is ripe..."? Is not each and every person, and their life just as valuable as the next? Are all the hundreds of generations who went before us somehow "unworthy" of His attention?
That seems strange.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But then again this revelation was not meant for this generation, but as a foundation to shape all future generations.
so, Tippy if this message is received in the same way as Jesus himself was received by the new Sanhedrin members, like yourself, the results may be similar, ...... and those results turned the whole world upside down, even in it's distorted; adulterated form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or.....the message you are spouting just may be like thousands of messages before it - all claiming to come from Divine inspiration - it might just be one more fluke. You have not proven it is not.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, you can go back now to the inane ramblings of social intercourse and winning friends and influencing people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, and you can go back to showing the very worst side of Urantia to everyone on this board.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 102 | From: Billings, MT | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 03:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so, Tippy if this message is received in the same way as Jesus himself was received by the new Sanhedrin members.... Ok, you can go back now to the inane ramblings of social intercourse and winning friends and influencing people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fight fire with fire, eh?
Well. a little bit of religious trivia might interest you, absonite, and that is that Jesus and all of his disciples spoke NICELY to those they tried to convert.
They were like SHEEP, but were 'as wise as serpents' all the same.
How, dear absonite, are you following the example of your master?
You are as humble a a brick through a windshield; Just as subtle, too. Why, to all intents and purposes, you yourself need to realign yourself to God. YOU HAVE STRAYED!
By all means, ignore the 'crazy reablings of a child of Lucifer', if you wish, but whose belief is it that such people will be PUNISHED? The strays go to the Pound (Hell), aby...
TippyQuote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I really like you, despite your attacks. I'm just trying to tell you that there is a better way - a kinder way - a more subtle way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to those wise words abs. The feeling is unanimous, and it's never too late to change one's ways -- this is a basic doctrine of ALL religions.
tippy,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW - I'm making vegetarian cuisine for the picnic. Wine, cheese, Italian breads and salads, with some delectable pastries for dessert.
But, it's colder'n a witches' tit where I live - so we shall have to go South, err our goblets will be sportin' icicles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mmm I see you have taste
Don't worry, there's plenty of blistering sun where I am
I think now it is time for you both to cruise on over to the 'nature of god' thread. I have left a message which I think you both ought to agree to: read a book! (the book I recommended, of course! (Tony Bushby, 'the bible fraud') It's a wonderfully insightful book, and anyone who dares call themselves educated about religion WITHOUT having read it, is foolish. read it NOW! BEFORE this topic continues, else there shall be many fish out of water...) (and don't stop there, either, he has a continuing trilogy, of which this is the first book... his life's work)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 03:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One more note:
can you all also head over to the 'All in favour of a basic upgrade to forums' thread and say 'yes, we want more user friendly forums' etc?
there is no better time than the start of a new year to instigate a vote, is there?
(you'll be happy about it later, trust me )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
Calvin
Member
Member # 2228
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Self-contemplation is most disastrous..."
So one should be a blind automaton? With no free will of thought or action?
This is where I exit the church and run naked through the streets chowing on french fries smothered in sour cream and bacon with my new best friend Lucy Fur.
Thank you Lucy for all the GOOD you have bestowed upon us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 211 | From: El Cajon, CA | Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-04-2005 07:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tippy,
As I read over your remarks, it becomes more a more a struggle to not insult you. Since I know that you have more on the ball than what you are exhibiting here, I wonder why you are pretending to be so dense.
You and I both know that "truth" in a spiritual sense is unprovable. God is unprovable. The Spirit of Truth, indwelling you is intangible and unprovable. God within you is unprovable. Life after death is unprovable. Heaven is unprovable.
Nevertheless, everything I stated above, although unprovable to mortals, is true.
You want me to prove God?
as Dylan said:
It ain't me babe.
You think you need proof of something? Then go prove it. I don't have to prove it, I know it.
Unlike you, who's religion didn't stand up over time and for good reasons, Urantia does stand up over time and will for at least the next thousand years until the next epochal revelation. Jesus will stand up over time as well, Christianity won't ,.....not in it's present form.
Jesus was the relelation, not Christianity.
Urantia is the next revelation, just like Christianity expanded the Judaic revelation; Urantia expands Christianity. Revelation clarifies and corrects accumulated errors of time; circumstance and mortal misunderstanding..
Whether I am an ******* or not has nothing to do with the subject. You must think I get paid if I can sway you to accept the hocus pocus slight-of-hand. You must think I work on commission selling books or something. Perhaps you think I am just another wacked out Maharishi with a shaved head giving lotus blossoms out at the local A.R. airport just dying to show everyone the one true path.
Who knows what motivates anyone regarding God and why it seems to be such a big deal since the beginning of time. Perhaps it's all a pyramid scheme like Avon or Mary Kaye or something.
Quite obviously there must be something real strange about the whole thing since Lucifers crime which caused the "war in heaven" wasn't murder, wasn't theft; wasn't **** or adultery. It was the denial of the existence of God.
No guns, no red devil suit with pointed ears and pitchforks, no weapons of mass destruction.
Just simply the denial of God.
Prove it?
you prove it !!!!
Let me know how you make out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-04-2005 08:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ducky, really!!!!!!!!!!
As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. The apostles when with Jesus, were just as dense as you are.
Is this an example of .........
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Jesus and all of his disciples spoke NICELY to those they tried to convert."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you have a similar story in your "bible" although I believe they slander the true character of Jeus in it."
156:1.3 When Norana arrived with her daughter, the Alpheus twins explained through an interpreter that the Master was resting and could not be disturbed; whereupon Norana replied that she and the child would remain right there until the Master had finished his rest. Peter also endeavored to reason with her and to persuade her to go home. He explained that Jesus was weary with much teaching and healing, and that he had come to Phoenicia for a period of quiet and rest. But it was futile; Norana would not leave. To Peter's entreaties she replied only: "I will not depart until I have seen your Master. I know he can cast the demon out of my child, and I will not go until the healer has looked upon my daughter."
156:1.4 Then Thomas sought to send the woman away but met only with failure. To him she said: "I have faith that your Master can cast out this demon which torments my child. I have heard of his mighty works in Galilee, and I believe in him. What has happened to you, his disciples, that you would send away those who come seeking your Master's help?" And when she had thus spoken, Thomas withdrew.
156:1.5 Then came forward Simon Zelotes to remonstrate with Norana. Said Simon: "Woman, you are a Greek-speaking gentile. It is not right that you should expect the Master to take the bread intended for the children of the favored household and cast it to the dogsÊ." But Norana refused to take offense at Simon's thrust. She replied only: "Yes, teacher, I understand your words. I am only a ÊdogÊ in the eyes of the Jews, but as concerns your Master, I am a believing ÊdogÊ. I am determined that he shall see my daughter, for I am persuaded that, if he shall but look upon her, he will heal her. And even you, my good man, would not dare to deprive the Êdogs of the privilege of obtaining the crumbs which chance to fall from the children's table."
156:1.6 At just this time the little girl was seized with a violent convulsion before them all, and the mother cried out: "There, you can see that my child is possessed by an evil spirit. If our need does not impress you, it would appeal to your Master, who I have been told loves all men and dares even to heal the gentiles when they believe. You are not worthy to be his disciples. I will not go until my child has been cured."
156:1.7 Jesus, who had heard all of this conversation through an open window, now came outside, much to their surprise, and said: "O woman, great is your faith, so great that I cannot withhold that which you desire; go your way in peace. Your daughter already has been made whole." And the little girl was well from that hour. As Norana and the child took leave, Jesus entreated them to tell no one of this occurrence; and while his associates did comply with this request, the mother and the child ceased not to proclaim the fact of the little girl's healing throughout all the countryside and even in Sidon, so much so that Jesus found it advisable to change his lodgings within a few days.
156:1.8 The next day, as Jesus taught his apostles, commenting on the cure of the daughter of the Syrian woman, he said: "And so it has been all the way along; you see for yourselves how the gentiles are able to exercise saving faith in the teachings of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Verily, verily, I tell you that the Father's kingdom shall be taken by the gentiles if the children of Abraham are not minded to show faith enough to enter therein."
.
.
or perhaps Ducky boy the following by Jesus is the example of him always speaking kindly that you had in mind.
I think you have the "corrupted", "adulterated" version in your bible.
.
.
.
175:1.11 "Mistake not my words. I bear no malice toward these chief priests and rulers who even now seek my destruction; I have no ill will for these scribes and Pharisees who reject my teachings. I know that many of you believe in secret, and I know you will openly profess your allegiance to the kingdom when my hour comes. But how will your rabbis justify themselves since they profess to talk with God and then presume to reject and destroy him who comes to reveal the Father to the worlds?
175:1.12 "Woe upon youÊ, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You would shut the doors of the kingdom of heaven against sincere men because they happen to be unlearned in the ways of your teaching. You refuse to enter the kingdom and at the same time do everything within your power to prevent all others from entering. You stand with your backs to the doors of salvation and fight with all who would enter therein.
175:1.13 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! for you do indeed encompass land and sea to make one proselyte, and when you have succeeded, you are not content until you have made him twofold worse than he was as a child of the heathen.
175:1.14 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, chief priests and rulers who lay hold of the property of the poor and demand heavy dues of those who would serve God as they think Moses ordained! You who refuse to show mercy, can you hope for mercy in the worlds to come?
175:1.15 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, false teachers, blind guides! What can be expected of a nation when the blind lead the blind? They both shall stumble into the pit of destruction.
175:1.16 "ÊWoe upon youÊ who dissimulate when you take an oath! You are tricksters since you teach that a man may swear by the temple and break his oath, but that whoso swears by the gold in the temple must remain bound. You are all fools and blind. You are not even consistent in your dishonesty, for which is the greater, the gold or the temple which has supposedly sanctified the gold? You also teach that, if a man swears by the altar, it is nothing; but that, if one swears by the gift that is upon the altar, then shall he be held as a debtor. Again are you blind to the truth, for which is the greater, the gift or the altar which sanctifies the gift? How can you justify such hypocrisy and dishonesty in the sight of the God of heaven?
175:1.17 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, scribes and Pharisees and all other hypocrites who make sure that they tithe mint, anise, and cumin and at the same time disregard the weightier matters of the law -- faith, mercy, and judgment! Within reason, the one you ought to have done but not to have left the other undone. You are truly blind guides and dumb teachers; you strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.
175:1.18 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites! for you are scrupulous to cleanse the outside of the cup and the platter, but within there remains the filth of extortion, excesses, and deception. You are spiritually blind. Do you not recognize how much better it would be first to cleanse the inside of the cup, and then that which spills over would of itself cleanse the outside? You wicked reprobates! you make the outward performances of your religion to conform with the letter of your interpretation of Moses' law while your souls are steeped in iniquity and filled with murder.
175:1.19 "Woe upon all of you who reject truth and spurn mercy! Many of you are like whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful but within are full of dead men's bones and all sorts of uncleanness. Even so do you who knowingly reject the counsel of God appear outwardly to men as holy and righteous, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and iniquity.
175:1.20 "ÊWoe upon youÊ, false guides of a nation! Over yonder have you built a monument to the martyred prophets of old, while you plot to destroy Him of whom they spoke. You garnish the tombs of the righteous and flatter yourselves that, had you lived in the days of your fathers, you would not have killed the prophets; and then in the face of such self-righteous thinking you make ready to slay him of whom the prophets spoke, the Son of Man. Inasmuch as you do these things, are you witness to yourselves that you are the wicked sons of them who slew the prophets. Go on, then, and fill up the cup of your condemnation to the full!
175:1.21 "ÊWoe upon you, children of evil! John did truly call you the offspring of vipers, and I ask how can you escape the judgment that John pronounced upon you?
175:1.22 "But even now I offer you in my Father's name mercy and forgiveness; even now I proffer the loving hand of eternal fellowship. My Father has sent you the wise men and the prophets; some you have persecuted and others you have killed. Then appeared John proclaiming the coming of the Son of Man, and him you destroyed after many had believed his teaching. And now you make ready to shed more innocent blood. Do you not comprehend that a terrible day of reckoning will come when the Judge of all the earth shall require of this people an accounting for the way they have rejected, persecuted, and destroyed these messengers of heaven? Do you not understand that you must account for all of this righteous blood, from the first prophet killed down to the times of Zechariah, who was slain between the sanctuary and the altar? And if you go on in your evil ways, this accounting may be required of this very generation.
175:1.23 "O Jerusalem and the children of Abraham, you who have stoned the prophets and killed the teachers that were sent to you, even now would I gather your children together as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you will not!
175:1.24 "And now I take leave of you. You have heard my message and have made your decision. Those who have believed my gospel are even now safe within the kingdom of God. To you who have chosen to reject the gift of God, I say that you will no more see me teaching in the temple. My work for you is done. Behold, I now go forth with my children, and your house is left to you desolate!"
.
.
.
so, Ducky, although I'm sure you try to be a nice person, the truth is you know very little about either Jesus or what you are running your mouth about. You are like Lucifer who tried to confuse the worlds.
Why don't you stick to another topic like food until you know whereof you speak
.
[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 01-04-2005).]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 08:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what I mean?
Abs just completely ignores me now...
I think tippy is next on the ignore list..
Once you debate with absonite, he'll fight you 'til the end, regardless of who is right..
This thread was dead the moment you conceived it, abs. What were you trying to prove, except your own animosity toward other people's beliefs, or lack thereof?
You created this thread specifically to take stabs at me. You have done that, and now what? Where does it end?
You can barely relax for a second to show us you have a lighter side.
I think something personal is going on in your life, and it's not pleasant, and you're using the Papers as a sort of crutch; And perhaps you're using these forums to let off steam, regardless of how sour you appear to us? REGARDLESS of the people you may HURT!
If that's the case -- then fine, you do that, I'll let you, I'm not one to judge another's way of doing things. But I WILL ask you to stop calling people derogatory names, and putting people into little boxes.
Even if you're dying, there is no excuse for bitterness... Live a little, and you will live longer
There is so much to life, there is no room to point out differences and judge by those.
This thread is finished.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 08:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Absonite, in case you hadn't noticed, I stopped being serious with you long ago. You just don't listen. Therefore, I can say anything I like; you don't contemplate it anyway..
There IS one thing I have learned from the bible -- do not cast your pearls before swine.
(Oh, and stop taking my words out of context. if that is the only way you can get to me, then i strongly suggest you find a new hobby...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
Absonite
Member
Member # 1766
posted 01-04-2005 08:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There you go Ducky, getting sour on me and taking things personally.
Grow up.
This topic is about ideas and truth. It is not personal unless you make it your own. From day one since we met you have been obnoxiously bantering about your hidden secrets of the bible and Jesus's life as if you knew some secret truth to laud it over everyone else who was a fool and knew nothing. In reality it was you who knew nothing. You have been arrogant; haughty and authoritarian with your "down-under" brand of lies masquarading as truth.
Pull up your britches son and sin no more
You have been shown the light and now you have a choice. Go about with your old ways of confusion or accept the light so freely given to you.
And another thing, don't flatter yourself that this thread was started for you. It wasn't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged |
bluducky
Member
Member # 1880
Member Rated:
posted 01-04-2005 11:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sigh sigh sigh...
Let's see...
Firstly, you DID make this thread in order to compare me to Lucifer, and your opening post, and another post in another thread confirms this. Getting forgetful in your old age, eh?
I quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome Bluducky,
You're # 2 in the group. Bring your bells.
And your beliefs and let's see how they compare with Lucifer.
Why don't you start with how Jesus was just a rabbi.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. The apostles when with Jesus, were just as dense as you are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said when WITH Jesus, did I?
Oh yes, and congratulations, you've caught me out; I'm dense, and foolish. Have I not already explained th.... nevermind..
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or perhaps Ducky boy the following by Jesus is the example of him always speaking kindly that you had in mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had you read my post, you'd realize that i never said he was kind to those who CORRUPTED his religion. His harsh words were directed to those who controlled the 'faith', and led it downhill, NOT to the converts. (but there was that one time with Peter..)
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic is about ideas and truth. It is not personal unless you make it your own. From day one since we met you have been obnoxiously bantering about your hidden secrets of the bible and Jesus's life as if you knew some secret truth to laud it over everyone else who was a fool and knew nothing. In reality it was you who knew nothing. You have been arrogant; haughty and authoritarian with your "down-under" brand of lies masquarading as truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that what you call it?
Very well then. there shall be no more of my insane ramblings about religion ever again.
You win, and I wish you well. I cannot converse with a hypocrite such as yourself, claiming to know, but knowing nothing yet as you ought to know.
As I said, this thread is finished..
By the way, I really DO know something you do not, but, I guess now I cannot tell...
(disclaimer: Whilst I do not lie -- ever, some information supplied in this post may be deemed innacurate upon further consideration, and withdrawals and corrections are fully within the right of the author at their sole discretion.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1626 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
Quick Reply
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
Printer-friendly view of this topic Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Administration -------------------- Moderators Only Forum Upgrade Completed Complaints, Banning, Moderators Category: Atlantis -------------------- Atlantis in the Bible Atlantis Egypt and The Pyramids Giza Power Other Ancient Mysteries Polls - AR Category: General & Misc -------------------- Alchemy Common Ground Evidence General & Misc. Near Death Experience OBE- Out of Body Experiences ORMUS and Quantum Alchemy. Planet X Suppressed Knowledge Humor Category: Health & Healing -------------------- Health and Healing Remote Viewing Polls - Health & Healing Category: Reference Material -------------------- Books Category: Science -------------------- Archaeology Earth Changes Future Science Polls- Science Category: The Unexplained -------------------- Crop Circles UFOs Category: Our Archives -------------------- Atlantis Rising - Old Posts
