ATLANTIS airs Oct 7th on History Channel

[Robert0326]

Maybe if someone brought whoever is in charge of expeditions or research sufficient evidence to allow a team of archeologists and researchers to investigate areas of interest.

[Jennifer O'Dell]

I would love for an expedition to check out Antarctica.  Probably too expensive.

At the same time, when it comes to the Bahamas, I think people have some really unrealistic expectations of what the underwater ruins would look like.  In the first place, whatever cataclysm that sent something to the bottom of the ocean is not going to leave intact temples.  You would basically have slabs of rubble, which is what we see there. And that place is also Hurricane Central for the Atlantic, so remnants of a civilization were probably swept away one hundred times over (stuff like pottery).

[Robert0326]

Your right it wouldn't be cheap.  But it's probably the only place that hasn't been explored as far as archeology is concerned.  And I believe that there might still some remnant.   

[nikas]

I knew it!  There was something totally different on my History channel tonight.  Something about Africa instead.  I'm sure I'll eventually get the right show, I'll just have to watch for it now.

So Qoais, how was the Africa show? 

I was waiting for this episode for like a month and on Wednesday morning the cable guy comes and disconnects most of these info-channels, NATGEO, DISCOVERY and History channel, apparently I wasn’t suppose to get them with my current plan. Can u believe that? So I didn’t see it either. Is there someone who recorded it? Can you post it over here just for us?

[nikas]

Watching the show.  I wish they wouldn't always include the Minoan/Santorini theme on every Atlantis special. That's the theory preferred by people too disinterested to actually look for it.

To summarize: Santorini was too small, too recent and in the wrong location to be Atlantis.  The island DIDN't have concentric circles, but rather a couple of fingers of land surrounding the island, and they were a passive people, not militaristic like Atlantis was.

Also, the disaster of Santorini did NOT ruin their civilization.  They were still making pottery one hundred years later.

Not to mention, the Santorini disaster has now been moved back to now around 1600 bc.

Yeah, desire, I am with you. Santorini does not stand a chance. there is not a single element to support the idea of thera being Atlantis. Minoans were indeed Greeks or predecessors of Greeks while Atlanteans weren't.
Plato specified that in one night and day of misfortune (rain and earthquakes) the Island disappeared. Thera did not submerge, rather it blew up. Is not even near any of the possible locations for the pillars.

[nikas]

Perhaps Dr. Little should consider looking elsewhere for Atlantis.  Personally I am in support of Atlantis being in Antarctica.  I wish they would have talked about Antarctica a little more instead of the Santorini/Crete theory.

You know Robert, one of the biggest problems with Atlantis research is that is being done by people that have no knowledge on the subject. With all due respect to Greg, who is the nicest person I have ever spoke to, he is not a doctor of Geology or any other related sciences need it for this research. Yes he is a doctor of something (Psychology perhaps?!) but he is not either a geologist or an archeologist.  His knowledge is unrelated….

There are two major problems with his locations. (There are more but I only gona give two!!!)
1) All geologists, including that open-minded (who is open to alternative science) the one from Boston, that has examined the area… claim with certain that it is a natural formation. There is not a single geologist to back Greg's theory.

2) Not a single Archeologist has shown any interest on his work, in a long term. They may have looked at it but backed up and gone. If there was any manmade evidence down there that showed any human activity, even not related to Atlantis, some archeologist or perhaps anthropologist would have contacted him.
Sorry Greg but you’re loosing your time with that location, and not only but you’re exhausting your finances.
As I told greg once, find me one detain in Plato’s work that pinpoints to bimini and I will be your best follower.
As for You Robert and your Antarctica, I don’t know if the government is doing something fishy there (why not) how in heck would atlanteans survive that cold weather when it is proven scientifically that the ice sheets are at least 400,000 years old? Where on Plato’s work did you find anything that indicates something like that?

[nikas]

I would love for an expedition to check out Antarctica.  Probably too expensive.

At the same time, when it comes to the Bahamas, I think people have some really unrealistic expectations of what the underwater ruins would look like.  In the first place, whatever cataclysm that sent something to the bottom of the ocean is not going to leave intact temples.  You would basically have slabs of rubble, which is what we see there. And that place is also Hurricane Central for the Atlantic, so remnants of a civilization were probably swept away one hundred times over (stuff like pottery).

Ok Jeniffer you're right that we can't expect to find intact buildings, rather ruins. Were are they? the ruins? Square blocks? where is the potery? not a single potery is found in biminis. There are countles underwater ruins all over the world. the ones that are man made have alwas some potery, while biminis does not.

So now tell me what are the unrealistic expectations? People are just sceptical of Greg's claims. that's all. 

[mdsungate]

   Okay, I saw the show, and I have to be totally honest… I’m ashamed to say, I fell asleep half way through it, LOL.  To be fair to Greg, I’m exhausted from working late nights for several weeks now, so it wasn’t him.  But I’m going to have to agree with RobertO’ there wasn’t much that was new.  I’m going to watch it again as it airs twice more this week, and give it a second chance.  There was great pictures of the Bimini Wall.  And what I found that was totally bogus, was that they did find an artifact, which looked most certainly to be a stone anchor, but because of some stupid law about coral, they were forced to put it back.  What the heck?  There are tons of coral all over the world, and Greg finds an artifact that might be physical proof of Atlantis and has to put it back???  I’m speechless about that!

But I’m going to have to ask all my Atlantean friends for a refresher here… I’m sure Nikas will know the exact phrase of Plato that I’m trying to recall, as I only have read the usual English translations of Timaeus and Critias.  But didn’t Plato say that the lost “continent” of Atlantis was “the way to other islands”? 

So as to what you are all saying as to the Bahama’s not being the correct location for Atlantis, wouldn’t the Atlanteans have dominated all the islands in the region surrounding their “continent”?   What I’m saying is that perhaps this supposed seawall, (that is now submerged), is not Atlantis itself, but one of the nearby outposts. 

As to Atlantis being in Antarctica,  I would think that the Peri Reis maps would have had a notation like “ATLANTIS”  ::)written on it, LOL, since they accurately depict the land mass beneath the ice, as modern sonar have confirmed, (it is actually two land masses as drawn on the Peri Reis maps).   

Greg is looking for evidence in a catamaran in water that is still comparatively shallow, and only requires a wet suit and tank. I would expect that a submerged "continent" to be a lot deeper down.  But the Grand Bahama bank would hardly qualify as a “continent” even if it rose above sea level today. 

But let us not forgot that Greg is NOT acting on what Plato had to say about Atlantis, but on what Cayce said about it, and his prophesy that parts of it would rise just at the time that that the Bimini Wall was discovered by Dr. Valentine.   And someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the A.R.E. has something to do with the funding for Greg’s expeditions, no? 

I love all the conjecture of where Atlantis actually is.  I have to totally agree with the nay on Minoan/Santorini theme and I’m just as sick of that as Desiree is, LOL.  People look for it in just about every place on the planet, yes even under the frozen ice of Antarctica.  But perhaps there’s some truth in all of it.  After all someone in the remote past created an unnatural grid system and harnessed the natural energy field of the entire planet for reasons yet unknown.  Their mark has been left in virtually every corner of the globe.  The work of these megalithic builders sill stands after countless years, and speaks of a united planet or at least one dominated by a global power whose work was imitated by the other civilizations.  It was an Atlantean world, and Atlantis left it’s mark in many, many places.

Sorry Qoais about the programming.  You’d think the History Channel would be more consistent.   But when you do catch it, let me know if you think that was Greg’s wife Laura on the boat talking.  How come they didn’t give her any credit?  Very politically incorrect, LOL. 

And Greg if you read this KUDOS again.  The very least of what you've accomplished is to bring our favorite topic to the forefront of popular thinking.  How can anyone hope to discover Atlantis if no one is taking it seriously, and you have accomplished that, to say the least.  What ever our own individual view points about Atlanits might be, you have done us all a great service by making the public take a serious look at the subject.

Mike

 

[Robert0326]

Nikas,

Core samples taken from the Ross Sea during the Byrd expedition of 1947-1948 shows glacial marine sediment from the present to 6000 years ago.  From 6,000 to 15,000 the sediment is fine-grained suggests an absence of ice from the area.  Then there is a zone fine-grained sediment from 30,000 to 40,000 years ago, again suggesting that the area was ice free.  From 40,000 to 133,550 years ago there are two zones of coarse and two zones of medium-grained texture.  While compare the three samples two of them shows that the end of the temperate period and beginning of the most recent glacial period started 6,000 years ago and the third just 1,000 years after that.  So you see Nikas Antarctica has had very recent period of temperate climate.  This is why and many others believe that Antarctica is the sight of the lost city.

Plato states that the city was on a continent larger than Libya and Asia together.  Hmmmmm,  I wonder which one it could be? 

[mdsungate]

   Well if that's the case RobertO, why hasn't anyone suggested Australia?  LOL, only joking.  Actually I wouldn't be the least bit surprised by that theory.  Although I've never heard of it, just about everywhere else has been suggested.  We really should ask Nikas about the exact translation of the ancient Greek translation of that Lybia and Asia thing.  Wasn't that Asia minor, anyway?  Asia is an extreemly large continent, it wouldn't leave much of the Atlantic Ocean left to navigate, LOL.   

[Robert0326]

Maybe he did mean Asia Minor.  Who knows.  But as you can see on a map, Antarctica fit just fine and very easy to navigate to.  An your probably right about the A.R.E funding his expeditions.  So the Littles would have to go where they tell them. 

[nikas]

Ok first of all, Plato (or …the Egyptian priest) never called Atlantis a continent!!!! It’s a pure fiction…or at least with the modern notion. The word used is ηπειρον (Ipiron/Ipiros), which is used even today and has two meanings; Continent and West. In the ancient time had only one meaning, the western part of the continent (Europe) with respect to Greece. North-west of Greece, Southern Albania and Southern Italy are in a way still called Ipiros (Northern Continent!)

Let me translate for you the part that mdsungate is referring to and pay attention to what Plato said. Bear in mind that Greek language is a tricky one. A word can have a 1,000 different meanings…on the other hand…a 1,000 words can describe the same thing. You can’t translate Plato by using PERSEUS because they just give you one of the possible manings of a particular word. When you translate ancient greek one has to look at the previews and the following word in order to get the real meaning of that word.

Τοτε(At that time) γαρ(because/was) πορευσιµον(it existed/present) ην(in) το(to) εκει(that) πελαγος(sea),

At that time there was present in that SEA,

So it was present…is not anymore!!! Helloooo!!!!
Pelagos is a Pelasgian word which means Pellag (small closed sea). This word by itself proves that he is not referring to Atlantic Ocean?! Read Babiniotis, Lexicon of the Greek Language.
 

Νησον(island) γαρ(because) προ(first/just) του() στοµατος ειχεν(has) ο καλειτε(called),
an island before/in front, the mouth(harbor)called,

No mater what Greg is saying, he can’t change the meaning of the words. It is clear that Atlantis was before you reach the pillars and not after. PRO TOU means always before you reach something. Regardless if George Montexano is trying to change the direction.

ως φατε(as eating), υµεις(you) Ηρακλεους(Hercules) στηλας(pillars),
as eat, by you the Pillars of Heracles,

It looks like these are the pillars that Greeks named them and they’re mentioning during dinner. Perhaps during praying….
 

η δε(an) νησος(island) αµα(as) Λιβυης(Libya) ην(in) και(and) Ασιας(Asia) µειζων(combined/together),
an island, as(big) Libya or/and Egypt together.

Ok, here…as big as Libya and Asia means the city states, not the modern continents!!! People, there were no continents for ancient people?! They were fewer in numbers. The comparison was made in 600 B.C and Lybia and Asia must have also been some states…e.t.c 

Εξ(from) ης(here) επιβατον(travel) επι(through/toward) τας(to) αλλας(other) νησους(island),
From here you could travel to the other islands,

So from Atlantis one can travel to the other Island. How difficult is to understand that the priest is talking with respect to east-west. So these islands are further from Atlantis. Atlantis is before you reach the pillars. Atlantis is somewhere near Tunis-Sardinia….
 

Τοις(which/to) τοτε(at time) εγιγνετο(became/was) πορευοµενοις(existent),
Which at that time were present,

 

εκ δε των νησων επιτην καταντικρυ πασαν ηπειρον,
and from these islands to the opposite continent,

Here is the moment where he mentioned the word Continent. He is saying that from these islands one can get to the opposite continent. How hard is to understand from these entire islands; Ibiza, Sardinia, Corsica…e.t.c one can get to the opposite continent? Is the priest talking, so the opposite continent would be opposite to Egypt! So it’s Europe. There are only two continents at this time. Europe and opposite, (Lybia, Egypt, Asia…)
 

την περι τον αληθινον εκεινον ποντον.
in those real waters/coasts.

 

ταδε µεν γαρ, οσα εντος του στοµατος ου λεγοµεν,
Now, everything with this mouth we talking about,

Here my friends, he is clearly stating that Atlantis is within this mouth…so is not outside the mouth (Pillars of Hercules)
 

φαινεται λιµην στενον τινα εχων εισπλουν,
is visible a narrow harbor just to pass,

So one can see a narrow harbor. That means is not narrow anymore at the time of 600 B.C but at the time of Atlantis.
 

εκεινο δε πελαγος, οντως,
but that other SEA, of course,

Aha, east-west, we have Atlantis then the mouth (the pillars) and then another Sea. Hello people does it look like Atlantic Ocean anymore?
 

η τε περιεχουσα αυτο γη παντελως αληθως ορθοτατ’
and the surrounding straight LAND

aha again. This surrounding almost straight land exist only in west Mediterranean.
 

αν λεγοιτο ηπειρος.
Could be called real continent. Or could be translated {if not really called the west…}

εν δε δη τη Ατλαντιδι νησω,
And in this Atlantis Island,

 

ταυτη µεγαλη συνεστη και θαυµαστη δυναµις βασιλεων,
this great empire and Admired powerful kingdom,
 

κρατουσα µεν απασης της νησου,
held(ruled) over the whole island,
Pay attention now; they rule the island.
 

πολλων δε αλλων νησων και µερων της ηπειρου,
many other islands, and parts of the continent,

many other island around them and some parts of the continent. He is not saying the opposite continent or other continent but just CONTINENT. Which means on the same side of Egypt. Now as he is describing the empire he is “traveling” west-east. So Atlantis is around Malta and rules all the surrounding Islands parts on Africa… 

προς δε τουτοις ετιτων εντος τηδε Λιβυης,
from here in addition parts towards Libya,

You see here how is traveling west-east. He is already in Tunis and travels toward Egypt. Parts in Tunis some parts in Libya and up to near Egypt. Not Including Egypt yet.

µεν ηρχον µεχρι προς Αιγυπτον,
within the columns as far as Egypt,

 

της δε Ευρωπης µεχρι Τυρρηνιας.
and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenian.

Now he jumps on the opposite continent (Europe) and travels east-west. So Atlantis rules up to Tyrrhenian Sea, which is in Sicily. Atlantis is not ruling Atlantic Ocean but as far as Sicily…with respect to Egypt.

One has to understand that is the Egyptian priest who tells the story and not Plato.

Do you really want the truth about Atlantis then pay attention to it:
The sea around Malta was called Atlantis Pelagus. The West Mediterranean was called OCEANUS. The Island of Atlantis was south-west of Malta (Malta being the Atlas Mountain). The Stadio that you’re looking for was 55 meters and not 150 m. It is the Egyptian Stadion not the Greek one.
Also, the Temple Of Poseidon is nothing more a replica of Parthenon. (Actually the other way around). The measurements given by the Egyptian fit precisely the two temples. The secret? Well, he called it barbaric, which he refers to Ionic and Doric civilizations…..

Anyway, if you have anymore questions I am ready to answer them,

Respect,
NIKAS

[Robert0326]

I'm not going to pretend that I know how to translate ancient Greek but if a word can have a 1,000 different meaning how can you be sure that you are correct.  I'm not trying to a jerk about it so don't take offense.  I'm just saying.  But I did like how you used your translation to only fit your theory.  Clever.

[Qoais]

Well, here's a question for you.  What did the pillars of Hercules represent?

I read that it was a demarcation, that one could travel no further, one could not travel beyond the pillars.  It was the end of the line.

[nikas]

I'm not going to pretend that I know how to translate ancient Greek but if a word can have a 1,000 different meaning how can you be sure that you are correct.  I'm not trying to a jerk about it so don't take offense.  I'm just saying.  But I did like how you used your translation to only fit your theory.  Clever.

Ok I did explain something Robert but it looks like you didn't go through and read everything that I wrote. I said it has 1,000 meanings but only one meaning with certain words. I said you look at the previews and after word. That's how you determine which is the meaning of that word. Not all words have so many meanings. Certain descriptive words or nouns....

I'm not trying to a jerk about it so don't take offense.  I'm just saying. 

None taken. I like challenges...

But I did like how you used your translation to only fit your theory.  Clever.

First of all, I did not alter anything to my translation. It is others who have done so and mine sound strange. Sometimes the truth(reality) is stranger than fiction. And second the only thing clever about it; the translations 99% correct.

P.S Robert you stated that Antarctica was warm recently and gave some data. I want you to reference them. By whom and when....