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ATLANTIS airs Oct 7th on History Channel

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS airs Oct 7th on History Channel  (Read 7839 times)
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 10:01:37 pm »

Ok Mike I see that you’re afraid you may offend me. I don’t get offended by intelligent people that ask smart, honest questions.

You’re right to ask questions and to be critical of my theory. I will try and answer all of them below;

Smiley  I’m not doubting your translation, Nikas.  So then if you’re correct in you theory the Atlantis was much smaller than a continent, (as the popular conception of what Plato meant), and was located south west of Malta, then it would seem that a mistranslation started the whole “myth” of Atlantis being in the Atlantic Ocean. 

That’s correct. Not just mistranslation but people like Donnelly and Edgar Casey…including here Cinematography…

Quote from: mdsungate
Forgive me for not getting out my copy of Plato’s dialogues, but it seems to me that if memory serves me correctly, the Priests of Sais, seemed to imply, (at least in the popular translation), that the Atlanteans endangered all the people of the Mediterranean, and came from outside the area.  How does the ancient Greek translation differ in this part?  Also I’ve gone on your web site, and I’m not sure I understand the graphics you display.  It seems like they’re trying to say that when Atlantis sank, the terrain of the whole area inside the current straights of Gibraltar changed.  Would you elaborate on what that is all about?

Yes they came from Atlantis Sea. Not Atlantis Ocean but Sea….Jowett mistake is that he translate it Sea for Ocean. That’s how all misconception started.

Atlantis sea(The sea around Malta). One misconception is that Atlantis was outside the pillars and Egypt + Greece were inside. When in reality it was the opposite. In ancient Greek, the priest explains that everything inside the Pillars is the area (modern; Tunis + Malta + Libya) while outside is Egypt and Greece.

Look at this passage:
Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war;

The war between those outside the pillars and those inside
   Between         Greece                            Atlantis.

When you read this passage in Greek he uses the word men and den, which is similar to Engish version of…John and Kate respectively (example).

In Greek you say the war between those outside and those inside. IMEN (the first) were the Greeks (the leaders) and IDEN were the Atlanteans.

You see how easy is translated by me.
And yes (to answer your question about the terrain change) Mediterranean changed a lot during that period. It is supported by science. Especially Geology and Oceanography.

There are many that contend that Plato made the whole tale up, and used it as an allegory for a utopian society.  Even his own student Aristotle apparently thought that about him.  I however think that almost everyone misses the whole point of the dialogues.  Plato’s leaving the dialogues unfinished only adds to the speculation.  I personally believe that even Aristotle didn’t get Plato’s drift, and Plato abandoned what was and still is a very unpopular theory,… the theory of destruction, which the Priests of Sais introduce at the very beginning of the dialogues.  But everyone seems to think that the myth of Atlantis is the point of the story, when I don’t see it that way.  I believe what Plato was driving at was that as perfect and utopian as Atlantis was, it was all wiped away in a fortnight, and that is the fragile state of our human endeavors.  Embarrassed 

Whoever thinks that Plato made it up has failed in understanding Philosophy Especially Greek Philosophy. The etymology of PHILOSOPFER = Love + Wisdom or can be translated as in search of truth. These people were in love with the truth. Socrates even invented his own methodology (which still the best to date) the Socratic methodology. The Way of finding the truth….The dialog. And that’s why Plato wrote most of his work in dialog style.
To say that he invented the story would be a fallacy. Only ignorant of Ancient history would make such a claim. I would understand if they accuse Critias or Solon or even the Egyptian priest but not Plato!!!
As for the Dialog’s ending I believe it got lost or something…or maybe he didn’t have time to finish. I have nothing to say about it…as I don’t know what happened.

Here’s the problem I see with your theory, Nikas, (and bear in mind that I’m not saying you’re wrong or being critical of it)… It implies that Plato started the ball rolling on a total misconception that Atlantis was a large landmass in the Atlantic Ocean.  If that were true, (and again, I’m not saying that it isn’t true), then it would mean that all the people that have written about Atlantis, (people like Otto Muck, Donnelley, Berlitz, etc), were all acting under a misconception.  The “myth” of this Island Continent has been perpetuated for over 2,000 years then.  And it is my observation that lies don’t live on, only the truth endures.  So I have a problem in thinking that all these people could have been duped into a falsehood, and despite all their instincts, spend years researching and trying to discover something that was a misinterpretation of the ancient Greek writings.  Undecided

First of all Plato never said anything. He only recorded a conversation between Socrates and Critias Quoting an Egyptian Priest but translated by Solon. Nowhere on the description did the priest say that it was a huge landmass in the Atlantic Ocean. I explained to you that he said that the island was before you reach the pillars not beyond. That’s another misconception. But the problem with Atlantis starts with the location of the Pillars. To answer here also the question from Qoasis; the location of the pillars was not what people think today. I have spent countless time at classical work (600 B.C – 300 B.C) and I found not a single reference that point at Gibraltar. They all pinpoint near Tunis, between Sardinia and Egadi Island. It’s a funny thing that even during Plato’s time…the location of the pillars was in dispute. They knew about it (near Egadi Islands) but no one knew the exact locations. Only at written records after 300 B.C did I find references that pinpoint the location at Iberia. However I have explained all these about the pillars at another thread.

Here’s another problem I have with your theory, (and again you asked for a challenge, so please take this as such and not as an attack on what you might believe, for I totally respect your theory, and that you may in fact be correct while others could have been wrong):

Plato is not the only source of this myth.  It exits even more prevalently in the writings of the Hindu and Buddhist traditions.    Those far eastern traditions of a continent in the Atlantic that sank, (as well as an ever older one in the Pacific Ocean that also sank), are most probably even older than Plato’s account of Atlantis. 
Yes he may not be the only one but he is the most correct one or at least the most detailed. Now, I have heard of tales in other cultures that mention Atlantis but I am not sure if they’re talking about the same place. The main reason why I am skeptical is that Atlantis is not the real name. It’s just a translation in Greek. Who knows what the real name was…so once more people speculate just to get attention.  And furthermore, why do they have to be Atlantis? And not some other catastrophes? A destruction of that magnitude must have been global and it may have destroyed other civilizations as well, not only Atlantis?!

Lastly we need to mention Edgar Cayce’s readings on Atlantis, which if your theory is correct, than he made innumerable medical diagnoses correctly, but was totally wrong in regard to Atlantis. 

Look, I don’t believe in this psychic thing. And I have no Idea what exactly this Casey was. I watched a documentary one day on history channel and he looked like a charlatan to me. He was talking about Crystals and flying saucers in Atlantis time which is a ridiculous thing to say when Plato describes a civilization with Spears and horses and swords for armory. A primitive society with our standards, not even close to Romans or even Egyptian civilization.

But as you mentioned earlier, “truth is stranger than fiction” so perhaps there is yet another understanding to an even larger “truth.”  Perhaps Plato was referring to an Island state off the south west coast of Malta that sank, and it is this civilization that was in conflict with Ancient Greece.  It does stand to reason that earthquakes in the Mediterranean would sink landmasses in the Mediterranean Sea at the same point in time.  But perhaps at an even older point in time there was a technologically advanced civilization on a continent in the Atlantic Ocean that sank, leaving only legends and former name… Atlantis, a name that seems to trigger a “race memory” in many people.  And perhaps this island state southwest of Malta, took on the name of this long forgotten people as their own.

That’s a possibility. I strongly believe that at one point in time there was a civilization more advanced than ours who may have genetically experimented or you named it. Nevertheless, Atlantis is not the case….unfortunately. But as I said this is just a believe based on just certain observation without scientific prove, nevertheless the case of Atlantis is a 100% a scientific research done by me.

And so I present to you the possibility that while your theory may be correct, that it may not tell the entire story… a story that Plato did not fully comprehend himself.  Shocked

Yes…of course but one thing at a time. Lets find Atlantis, make people believe in it and then we look for more.
Please take what I have written in the spirit that it was intended. 

Again I mean no disrespect to your laudable theory.  But if you find some resistance to your belief on the part of other’s, than what I’ve stated here is perhaps why you might meet with some criticism of it.  I’ve only stated the obvious.   You are among friends here, (this is not AR, LOL), and we all have our own pet theories that will certainly meet with criticism.  And yes Robert0', I too want to know just when was the Antarctic warmer?   Grin

Of course I believe that you intended no harm or offense in anyway. I am enjoying debating with you and wish to continue. As I previously stated, it’s called Socratic Methodology…dialog and only dialog and truth will prevail…

« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 10:07:27 pm by nikas » Report Spam   Logged
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