Atlantis Online
August 08, 2022, 03:33:14 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: ARE Search For Atlantis 2007 Results
http://mysterious-america.net/bermudatriangle0.html
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

What if?

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What if?  (Read 9928 times)
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2009, 10:12:36 pm »











                              Grand Theft Auto: How Stevie the Rat bankrupted GM






by Greg Palast
Monday, June 1, 2009


Screw the autoworkers.



They may be crying about General Motors' bankruptcy today.  But dumping 40,000 of the last 60,000 union jobs into a mass grave won't spoil Jamie Dimon's day.

Dimon is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase bank.  While GM workers are losing their retirement health benefits, their jobs, their life savings; while shareholders are getting zilch and many creditors getting hosed, a few privileged GM lenders led by  Morgan and Citibank expect to get back 100% of their loans to GM, a stunning $6  billion.

The way these banks are getting their $6 billion bonanza is stone cold illegal.

I smell a rat.

Stevie the Rat, to be precise.  Steven Rattner, Barack  Obama's 'Car Czar' - the man who essentially ordered GM into bankruptcy this morning.

When a company goes bankrupt, everyone takes a hit:  fair or not, workers lose some contract wages, stockholders get wiped out and creditors get fragments of what's left.  That's the law.  What workers don't lose are their pensions (including old-age health funds) already taken from their wages and held in their name.

But not this time.  Stevie the Rat has a different plan for GM: grab the pension funds to pay off Morgan and Citi.

Here's the scheme:  Rattner is demanding the bankruptcy court simply wipe away the money GM owes workers for their retirement health insurance.  Cash in the insurance fund would be replaced by GM stock. The percentage may be 17% of GM's stock - or 25%.  Whatever, 17% or 25% is worth, well ... just try paying for your dialysis with 50 shares of bankrupt auto stock.

Yet Citibank and Morgan, says Rattner, should get their whole enchilada - $6 billion right now and in cash - from a company that can't pay for auto parts or worker eye exams.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2009, 10:13:46 pm »










Preventive Detention for Pensions



So what's wrong with seizing workers' pension fund money in a bankruptcy?  The answer, Mr. Obama, Mr. Law Professor, is that it's illegal. 

 

In 1974, after a series of scandalous take-downs of pension and retirement funds during the Nixon era, Congress passed the Employee Retirement Income Security Act.  ERISA says you can't seize workers' pension funds (whether monthly payments or health insurance) any more than you can seize their private bank accounts.  And that's because they are the same thing:  workers give up wages in return for retirement benefits. 

The law is darn explicit that grabbing pension money is a no-no.  Company executives must hold these retirement funds as "fiduciaries."  Here's the law, Professor Obama, as described on the government's own web site under the heading, "Health Plans and Benefits."

            "The primary responsibility of fiduciaries  is to run the plan solely in the interest of participants and beneficiaries  and for the exclusive purpose of providing benefits."

Every business in America that runs short of cash would love to dip into retirement kitties, but it's not their money any more than a banker can seize your account when the bank's a little short.  A plan's assets are for the plan's members only, not for Mr. Dimon nor Mr. Rubin.

Yet, in effect, the Obama Administration is demanding that money for an elderly auto worker's spleen should be siphoned off to feed the TARP babies. Workers go without lung transplants so Dimon and Rubin can pimp out their ride. This is another "Guantanamo" moment for the Obama Administration - channeling Nixon to endorse the preventive detention of retiree health insurance.

Filching GM's pension assets doesn't become legal because the cash due the fund is replaced with GM stock.  Congress saw through that switch-a-roo by requiring that companies, as fiduciaries, must

            "...act prudently and must diversify the plan's investments in order to minimize the risk of large losses."

By "diversify" for safety, the law does not mean put 100% of worker funds into a single busted company's stock.

This is dangerous business:  The Rattner plan opens the floodgate to every politically-connected or down-on-their-luck company seeking to drain health care retirement funds.
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
Jennie McGrath
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4349



« Reply #107 on: June 01, 2009, 10:26:21 pm »

It's hard to imagine just how far this country has fallen.  Once, GM was one of the leading companies in the world.  Now their stock is less than a dollar a share and they have declared bankruptcy.

If GM can fail, America can fail.  I have an inkling that there is more hurt to come, also that things might never get back to where they were.

Aritoddler, always the pessimist!  Sure, things look bad right now, but we'll get through it! Our ancestors got through the Great Depression and defeated Hitler and the Japanese, and that threat was WAY worse than anything our generation experienced.

Each generation has its own challenges.  Back in 1975, New York was bankrupt, too, but got out of it.  We just have to stay cool and have some hope that things will get better.  Cause they will!

Unless aliens take over the planet, then all bets are off.  Wink
Report Spam   Logged
HereForNow
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3279


HUH?


« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2009, 03:42:01 am »

Wow I should mention you guys more often,,,
LOL Hi Jennie....

Long time no hear, but glad you came.


America did make it through the last time. However, this time is different.
This time, world banks are the ones that are under fire and this is where it gets messy.
Proof has been disclosed that this global banking system has funded both sides of almost all the wars since ww1.

The objective is to loan the money to fund these conflicts and charge interest.
They first create the war or conflict, like 9/11 for instance. After triggering a war, promote propaganda to increase activity in those wars. Once the countries in mention begin hurting for money, they capitalize on it by bailing out those forces and then reap the interest and pay back for these monies.

Ofcourse how it's different this time is;
Global debt!

Report Spam   Logged

HereForNow
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3279


HUH?


« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2009, 03:57:54 pm »

Now who would like to take a shot at how a broken government pays back the money it's loaned without "making" money and hyper-inflating everything?

 
Report Spam   Logged

Bianca
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 41646



« Reply #110 on: June 02, 2009, 04:13:49 pm »





Don't be silly, HFN,

The NEXT  administration will take care of that!!!
Report Spam   Logged

Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
HereForNow
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3279


HUH?


« Reply #111 on: June 02, 2009, 07:14:41 pm »

 Grin  Ofcourse that depends on how bad off the economy is in 4 years that determines who will be elected to resume the roll of, "Figure Head"...
Report Spam   Logged

Harconen
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2568



« Reply #112 on: June 03, 2009, 04:35:52 am »

    Hi, I am new on this site.I live in Europe, and looking from here things are like this.
    America is like new roman empire running around the world snatching territories and , terrorising everyone and in same time speaking about democracy.That is a fact.Your economy is pirate economy.New world order is coming from your garden, and it will inslave all free people of the world.
    What can you do?Nothing.Under fake war with terrorists around the world, you will lose battle for freedom at home.Money is not a problem, problem is Bilderberg group, etc.People like that.We are little sheep's producing wool, meat and milk.
                                                                                                 
Report Spam   Logged

Ignis Natura Renovandum Integra
Demetra
New Member
**
Posts: 1


« Reply #113 on: June 03, 2009, 07:34:25 am »

I wholly agree with everything Harconen has said. 
Report Spam   Logged
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2009, 11:15:09 pm »

You people should educate yourselves.  Do you not see how Bush and others were manipulated into breaking America's economy?  Do you not realize that people who are hungry are easy to manipulate?  Do you not see what the Chinese are doing these days?  You talk about a New World Order or whatever.  It's not going to come from the States.  It's going to come in the shape of total annhilation speaking Chinese but because you're so focused on hating someone - someone who the majority of you voted into the highest office of the land - your attention is diverted from what is really happening out there.  You can knock this man you've placed at the head of your dying country, you can blame him for all the wrongs of the past of which he's innocent, you can ignore his sincerity when he speaks of rebuilding your dead economy (when not one of YOU would stand up and try to do something about it) and you can taunt him about his efforts to speak with world leaders to find peaceful solutions to the ongoing wars. 

I was still in my teens when I read a book that was a real eye-opener.  It was a fictional book, but I was pretty sure it was based on reality.  It was called The Captains and The Kings.  It was then that I realized that the world's money was actually owned by a very few people - that these people would always own the world, and would manipulate it to their best interests.  I personally did not understand why anyone would want to do that, because although it's thrilling to have that much power, what does it do for you ultimately?  How many villas can you live in?  How many yachts can you party on?  And from what I understand, these men of power do not flaunt their weath in any of these ways.  You could pass them on the street and not know they were part of an elite few who actually rule the world. 

So - all your badmouthing against your own President is petty and meaningless because you don't have a clue what's really going on.  Now you have a super power in China that couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks of them and THEY want to rule the world.  So it looks to me like no matter what, there is going to be a show down of world powers one way or another, sooner or later.  If President Obama can instigate peace amongst those who have been hating each other for centuries, the rest of the world may join together to keep China from exercising her might.  If not, then a world fractured by local wars and broken economies is a cake walk for a power like China. 

You talk about your freedoms being taken away.  Ha!  Do you have any idea what it would be like to live under Communist rule?  Individuals have no identity other than a number on a work gang.  Talk about gun control!!  The only way you'd be able to handle a gun is by joining the army. 

The world is in one hell of a mess right now.  I don't think anything like this has happened in the past.  Yes, the thirties were bad, but just think.  The mega corporations that made America huge, weren't even born yet - most of them.  There wasn't as many people then either.  There was not so much financing as in these modern times.  With all these problems, and in the face of what COULD happen to you, should China make a move, you'd think you'd all quit whining and do something positive to put your country back on track.

I say - it's just too damn bad that Mr. Obama is an American.  I wish he were Canadian.  I wish he was our Prime Minister.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 11:18:51 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Clash
Full Member
***
Posts: 3



« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2009, 11:44:06 pm »

So true, Qoais, these people are totally clueless - too much Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, PUMA and whatever hate-filled group spewing their propaganda on the airwaves these days. 

They act like Obama is the problem when he is just cleaning up the mess.  The mess was actually caused by people like them voting in people like Reagan, the Bushes and Clinton in office for the last thirty years.  Most f them wouldn't know a good leader if they fell over one.  One guy here is pitching Chuck Baldwin, sure, a former preacher is just what America needs right now.

Your leaders, Clinton, Reagan and the Bushes have already sold your country out to the Chinese.  And if you don't like the way things have turned out, hey, you shouldn't have voted for them.
Report Spam   Logged
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2009, 12:02:06 am »

Right Clash - I forgot to mention how much money the United States owes China.  They don't even have to lift a finger in war.  They can just call in their loans.  They OWN America.
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
HereForNow
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3279


HUH?


« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2009, 11:39:06 am »

 Grin And while everyone is so convinced that China is the real threat, the big picture is still going out of focas. America is not free anymore because of debt with China. Agreed!
Yet it was the intent of a global plan to do this to the major world powers first. China and America are joined at the hip folks. They hate us, yet without us. They fail too.

So say they call in all those loans. Say then that we are all enslaved to repay China. Now they are paying out money to keep their people going, and supporting Amerians so that they can continue working just to pay them back? With no jobs?
No homes? No cars tp get to and from?
 

(Shakes heads)
Seems to me they would be better off killing us for the money. LOL
Now go ahead and explain this any way you want but....
It is not as simple as you all might like to think.



Quote
So true, Qoais, these people are totally clueless - too much Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, PUMA and whatever hate-filled group spewing their propaganda on the airwaves these days.  

They act like Obama is the problem when he is just cleaning up the mess.  The mess was actually caused by people like them voting in people like Reagan, the Bushes and Clinton in office for the last thirty years.  Most f them wouldn't know a good leader if they fell over one.  One guy here is pitching Chuck Baldwin, sure, a former preacher is just what America needs right now.

Your leaders, Clinton, Reagan and the Bushes have already sold your country out to the Chinese.  And if you don't like the way things have turned out, hey, you shouldn't have voted for them.

I Don't vote!
Besides that. Obama hasn't done squat yet.
My opinion, and no I'm not racist.  Roll Eyes
Q- Obama might have you fooled for now. I just hope that when the truth is revealed that you won't take it to hard.

Clash-
As for a leader; A real leader teaches others how to lead and does so by example.
If ever we knew what a real leader was. We would have only to look to ourselves.
8 trillion dollars cannot be accounted for by the federal reserve and here we have ressession proof individuals who can spend the money better then anyone in any government. (That statement came strait from the senate to BTW.)  I make a little less then 30,000 annually and I'm debt free. All my bills are paid. I have no Mortgage. My taxes are paid. No payments on anything are due anywhere. I own everything I have. I have all of what I need to survive nicely, and I don't use welfare or any state programs for assisting me in surviving the climate.

I don't live beyond my means.
Then you have those people out there who make 75,000 a year and more, yet they are in debt through the nose. How does this happen?
LOL

Again people,it is organized crime hand in hand with international banking that is at the root of America's problems. With a little research and the ability to see past your own reasoning, you might discover this for yourselves. However, it doesn't matter at all if you do or don't.
I created a way to make things good for my own family. I am atleast sincere about caring enough for others to help everyone one I can with what I can.

If that makes me a bad person, then good!
Consider me a criminal.
 The Real problem with people everywhere in general is; You all will complain about this that and the other.
Yet you still do nothing to help those with far less then you. You will not stand up and take action for change. You refuse to see anything that is beyond your own reasoning. Lastly, the things that you take for granted will one day be your realities and yet you will shoot down any idea another has without explaining to those people why they might be mistaken.

Exactly what does this contribute to solving the problems?
 Grin


Take aim and shoot at people like myself. Yet let he without a singal sin of their own fire the first bullet. Ofcourse we know that this won't happen. Someone will find fault and blame in others before acknowledging what they aren't doing themselves to better humanity.
Take a look in the mirror sometime and see for yourself how much of a difference you have made in the world.

I can atleast say that I make a difference in my own community and that I am loved by my friends and family for all that I do. Everyday I do something that helps others that doesn't involve sitting at a computer.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 11:40:41 am by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Harconen
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2568



« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2009, 12:14:26 pm »

You people should educate yourselves.  Do you not see how Bush and others were manipulated into breaking America's economy?  Do you not realize that people who are hungry are easy to manipulate?  Do you not see what the Chinese are doing these days?  You talk about a New World Order or whatever.  It's not going to come from the States.  It's going to come in the shape of total annhilation speaking Chinese but because you're so focused on hating someone - someone who the majority of you voted into the highest office of the land - your attention is diverted from what is really happening out there.  You can knock this man you've placed at the head of your dying country, you can blame him for all the wrongs of the past of which he's innocent, you can ignore his sincerity when he speaks of rebuilding your dead economy (when not one of YOU would stand up and try to do something about it) and you can taunt him about his efforts to speak with world leaders to find peaceful solutions to the ongoing wars. 

I was still in my teens when I read a book that was a real eye-opener.  It was a fictional book, but I was pretty sure it was based on reality.  It was called The Captains and The Kings.  It was then that I realized that the world's money was actually owned by a very few people - that these people would always own the world, and would manipulate it to their best interests.  I personally did not understand why anyone would want to do that, because although it's thrilling to have that much power, what does it do for you ultimately?  How many villas can you live in?  How many yachts can you party on?  And from what I understand, these men of power do not flaunt their weath in any of these ways.  You could pass them on the street and not know they were part of an elite few who actually rule the world. 

So - all your badmouthing against your own President is petty and meaningless because you don't have a clue what's really going on.  Now you have a super power in China that couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks of them and THEY want to rule the world.  So it looks to me like no matter what, there is going to be a show down of world powers one way or another, sooner or later.  If President Obama can instigate peace amongst those who have been hating each other for centuries, the rest of the world may join together to keep China from exercising her might.  If not, then a world fractured by local wars and broken economies is a cake walk for a power like China. 

You talk about your freedoms being taken away.  Ha!  Do you have any idea what it would be like to live under Communist rule?  Individuals have no identity other than a number on a work gang.  Talk about gun control!!  The only way you'd be able to handle a gun is by joining the army. 

The world is in one hell of a mess right now.  I don't think anything like this has happened in the past.  Yes, the thirties were bad, but just think.  The mega corporations that made America huge, weren't even born yet - most of them.  There wasn't as many people then either.  There was not so much financing as in these modern times.  With all these problems, and in the face of what COULD happen to you, should China make a move, you'd think you'd all quit whining and do something positive to put your country back on track.

I say - it's just too damn bad that Mr. Obama is an American.  I wish he were Canadian.  I wish he was our Prime Minister.

            Qoais

     That kind of education you ofer I do not need.You can sell that to someone who have no eye's (or brain).

  1]  a) I don't see Chinese army pumping oil from Irak.
       b) I don't see Chinese army controling Afgan Heroin road's.
           Insted of writing c, d, etc. I ask you, can you tell us the number of contries with U.S. Military base's, and why are they there.
  2]  "...world's money was actually owned by a very few people".Are they call themself Rockefeller's or Lee's?Try to read "1984" writed by George O.
  3]   " Do you have any idea what it would be like to live under Communist rule?  Individuals have no identity other than a number on a work gang.  Talk about gun control!!  The only way you'd be able to handle a gun is by joining the army."- LOL.I lived under Communist rule.Free medical care, free school, low crime, no people sleeping on street's, if you aren't mentaly sick and over 18 you can have 10 gun's and a tenk!
  4]   "The world is in one hell of a mess right now.  I don't think anything like this has happened in the past." China is guilty, they started  "local wars and broken economies".LOL.Please tell me that was a joke.
Report Spam   Logged

Ignis Natura Renovandum Integra
Christian Kielbasa
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1197



« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2009, 01:08:54 pm »

Quote
Besides that. Obama hasn't done squat yet.
My opinion, and no I'm not racist. 
Q- Obama might have you fooled for now. I just hope that when the truth is revealed that you won't take it to hard.


Herefornow, what makes you so certain that you are right about Obama and everyone else is wrong?  Because you saw a couple of Volitzer's bogus Alex Jones films?  Alex Jones is an entertainer, all about getting ratings. 

And no matter who the President is, there will always be a bunch of people that have issues against him.  I have real doubts that the differences people have with Obama are based on the facts, since he has only been on the job about one hundred days and is still trying to get things passed.

He hasn't gone grabbing your guns, he hasn't raised taxes on the Middle Class, he hasn't made war on white people so I would suggest just giving him a "break" until he proves he's "the enemy."

Oh, and those tea-bagging protests are filled with rascists, so even if you have your issues with them, I would stay away from them.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy