FIRST NATIONS

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Boreas
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     The Iroquois
« on: February 23, 2007, 01:48:57 am » Quote 

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What happened to the native NE Americans - called Iroquois?

jacquescartier.org/.../charlesbourg-royal.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochelaga_(village)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Lawrence_Iroquoians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquoian_languages


Anyone familiar with this material?

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/12356
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/anthro/outreach/Indbibl/#PREFACE

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Bianca
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 11:52:52 am » Quote Modify 

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Boreas:
                   
                                      Re:   I  R  O  Q  U  O  I  S


I went to school in Canada and, if memory serves me right, the IROQUOIS (proper
spelling) were more of a 'nation' than a tribe.  It had sub-clans like the Apaches as
in what is now the USA.

One thing I do remember is that they were probably the fiercest of all the tribes,
not only to the Europeans, but also to other native tribes. 

I would check CANADIAN history if you are really interested.  I know for a fact that
they were brutal to the Catholic Missionaries.
 

SEE:


CANADIAN MARTYRS

MARTYRS' SHRINE,
Midland, Ont. (last time I was there, that was the address, but almost 40 years
                       later, the area has probably been built up)

JESUIT MISSIONARY HISTORY in Canada


They were a northern tribe, so I don't think any of their remnants would be included
in the SIX or FIVE NATIONS, who are a combination of Southern Canadian and US
Northern Tribes.  They are located today on the reservation at Cayuga, Ont. and
its surrounding area.


Love and Peace,
Bianca

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Boreas
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 07:11:30 pm » Quote 

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Since there is a direct link between the Norse populations and the north-east Indians I am indeed interested to hear more on the origin, history and destiny of the Iroqoui.

We already know that there once were a culture of Norse settlements all along the shores of Greenland, Baffin Island, Labrador, New Foundland, Hudson, Ontario, Quebec - and down the east-coast all the way to   Virginia and Carolina. 30 years ago they even found the fragments of a Norse ship on the shores of Haiti, dated to just about 1.000 AD...

Since the trade-markets of Norse and Indian artefacts were excavated in the Hudson Bay it is clear that these contacts were well established and prosperous for centuries - at least - until the Roman conquest of the ultimate north finally succeeded, during the 11th and 12th century.

The destiny of the Lappish, the Eskimos and the Iroqui seems to describe a late edition of that very same conquest. The Norse populations of Greenland and then Labrador and New Foundland were taken into capity and sold as slaves during the 14th and 15th century. Thus the early qonquistadors changed the name of the old Norse area of "Mark-land" into "Labradores".

I have always been wondering why these great leakes to the central north/ north-east of Canada is called The Slave Lakes...?

Are there any Iroqui's still around - and do they have their own history somewhat intact?

Best regards

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Bianca
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 08:22:28 pm » Quote Modify 

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Boreas:

My computer will not let me give you a link.  Can you use GOOGLE from where you
are.  Google will give you all the information you are asking.  Just make sure you
spell IROQUOIS right.

If you care, Edgar Cayce made reference to the Iroquois.  You will find here, in the
section <Atlantis in the New Age>, go to <Edgar Cayce - Migrations from atlantis>
Post #19.

But I think you are more concerned with the Norse connection.  Therefore you have
to pursue it through the information sites.

Good hunting,

Bianca
 

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Bianca
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 09:04:59 pm » Quote Modify 

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Boreas:

The "Great Slave Lake " is so called because of the SLAVEY north American Indian

Tribe.  It is located in the NORTHWEST Territories of Canada, north of British

Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

You are getting it mixed up with the GREAT LAKES in the EASTert part of Canada

They are: Erie, Ontario, Huron and Superior (I hope I didn't leave any out).  That

was IROQUOIS territory.

So, if the Norsemen were in contact, they would have had contact with the Eastern

North Americans.

I wish I could be of more help, but my computer is failing me and I don't have the

time to type the information for you.

I have been involved in the Edgar Cayce thread and have been copying from one

of my books and that's taking up a lot of my time. (not too great a typist, you know.)


Love and Peace,
Bianca 

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unknown
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 09:40:43 pm » Quote 

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hi Bianca

The one you missing is lake Michigan.

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Bianca
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 09:52:08 pm » Quote Modify 

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Thanks, Unk:

I'm in Florida now and I hate to even think of the frigid North!!

I've come a long way for a "little girl from Italee...." 

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unknown
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 10:10:50 pm » Quote 

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Its cooold here, got about a  half foot of snow. But I love having all four seasons, each has its unique charm.

We don't get the snow like we used to when I was a kid.

I was in Florida one summer and just couldn't take the heat there.

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Jill Elvgren
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    Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2007, 07:02:35 pm » Quote 

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I love the snow and the change of seasons, too! 
This year was really tough, though, I think that I caught just about everything a person can possibly catch.

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unknown
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2007, 02:14:05 am » Quote 

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Hi Jill

I think spring is finally here! It was 73 here today and the sun was shining warmly, just perfect for me...

Whats the weather like there?

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cleasterwood
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     Re: The Iroquis
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 07:36:01 am » Quote 

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Believe it or not, I studied this subject for book 2.   
I don't have links that connect the Iroquois to the Norse just yet, but here are some links that will tell more about the Iroquios Confederacy.  The Iroquios are still around today.  The two links you asked if anyone is familiar with are valid places to look.  Also, by looking at this site http://www.iroquois.net/ you can learn a lot.  There are many links to explore there and I believe the author is Iroquois.


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The name Iroquois means "rattlesnakes."  They call themselves Haudenosaunee which means "people building a long house." They live in what is now the state of New York and parts of Canada.  The Iroquois Confederacy originally included five nations and was a democracy. The US government is modeled on it.

http://www.ic.arizona.edu/ic/kmartin/School/iroqh.htm


Quote
The Iroquois Confederacy or Haudenosaunee (also known as the "League of Peace and Power"; the "Five Nations"; the "Six Nations"; or the "People of the Long house") is a group of First Nations/Native Americans that originally consisted of five tribes: the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga, and the Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined after the original five nations were formed. They are often referred to as Iroquois.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois

I dive into Native American myth sometimes.    Mostly I just research my Cherokee heritage.  My ancestor Col. Littleton L Brown, a confederate colonel, married a Cherokee woman.  We only know her first name though.  Talk about looking for a needle in a hay stack. 

Anyway, I took the liberty of searching for some links on the Iroquois/Norse connections.  Here's over 44,000 links from Google:  http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-33,SUNA:en&q=iroquois+norse

Blessed be,
Lynn

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                                                FLAG OF THE IROQUOIS CONFEDERACY





Total population

approx. 125,000
(80,000 in the U.S.
45,000 in Canada)
 


Regions with significant populations

 Canada
(southern Quebec, southern Ontario)   

 United States
(New York, Wisconsin, Oklahoma)   
 


Languages


Mohawk,
Oneida,
Onondaga,
Cayuga,
Seneca,
Tuscarora,
English,
French



Religion

Longhouse Religion;
Christianity;
others

[Bianca]

The Iroquois Confederacy (also known as the "League of Peace and Power", the "Five Nations"; the "Six Nations"; or the "People of the Longhouse") is a group of First Nations/Native Americans that originally consisted of five nations:

the Mohawk,
the Oneida,
the Onondaga,
the Cayuga, and
the Seneca.

A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined after the original five nations were formed.



Although frequently referred to as the Iroquois, the Nations refer to themselves collectively as

Haudenosaunee
(Akunęhsyę̀niˀ in Tuscarora,
Rotinonsionni in Mohawk).



When Europeans first arrived in North America, the Confederacy was based in what is now the northeastern United States primarily in what is referred to today as upstate New York.

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The word Iroquois has many potential origins.

A possible origin of the name Iroquois is reputed to come from a French version of


'irinakhoiw', a Huron (Wyandot) name—considered an insult—meaning "Black Snakes" or "real adders".


The Iroquois were enemies of the Huron and the Algonquin, who allied with the French, because of their rivalry in the fur trade.

The Haudenosaunee (People of the Longhouse) often end their oratory with the phrase

'hiro kone'  -hiro translates as "I have spoken", and kone can be translated several ways, the most common being "in joy", "in sorrow", or "in truth".

Hiro kone to the French encountering the Haudenosaunee would sound like "Iroquois", pronounced iʁokwe in the French language of the time.


Another version is however supported by French linguists such as Henriette Walter and historians such as Dean Snow.  According to this account, "Iroquois" would derive from a Basque expression, Hilokoa, meaning the "killer people". This expression would have been applied to the Iroquois because they were the enemy of the local Algonquians, with whom the Basque fishermen were trading.

However, because there is no "L" in the Algonquian languages of the Gulf of Saint Lawrence region, the name became "Hirokoa", which is the name the French understood when Algonquians referred to the same pidgin language as the one they used with the Basque. The French then transliterated the word according to their own phonetic rules, thus providing "Iroquois".

[Bianca]

Haudenosaunee



The combined confederacy of the Nations is known as the Haudenosaunee.

Haudenosaunee means "People of the Longhouse," or more accurately, "They Are Building a Long House."

The term is said to have been introduced by The Great Peacemaker at the time of the formation of the Confederacy. It implies that the Nations of the Confederacy should live together as families in the same longhouse.

Symbolically, the Seneca were the guardians of the western door of the "tribal longhouse" (Kayęˀčarà•nęh[4] in Tuscarora), and the Mohawk were the guardians of the eastern door.
The Onondagas, whose homeland was in the center of Haudenosaunee territory, were
keepers of the Confederacy's (both literal and figurative) central flame.





Melting pot



The Iroquois are a melting pot.

League traditions allowed for the dead to be symbolically replaced through the "Mourning War", raids intended to seize captives to replace lost compatriots and take vengeance on non-members. This tradition was common to native people of the northeast and was quite different from European settlers' notions of combat.

The Iroquois aimed to create an empire by incorporating conquered peoples and remolding them into Iroquois and thus naturalizing them as full citizens of the tribe. Cadwallader Colden wrote

"It has been a constant maxim with the Five Nations, to save children and young men of the people they conquer, to adopt them into their own Nation, and to educate them as their own children, without distinction; These young people soon forget their own country and nation and by this policy the Five Nations make up the losses which their nation suffers by the people they lose in war."

By 1668, two-thirds of the Oneida village were assimilated Algonquians and Hurons. At Onondaga there were Native Americans of seven different nations and among the Seneca eleven.