"Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?

[Serina]

"Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Bruce Dorminey
for National Geographic News

February 6, 2009
The ancient flood that some scientists think gave rise to the Noah story may not have been quite so biblical in proportion, a new study says.

Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea, then a largely freshwater lake. That flood turned the lake into a rapidly rising sea. (See a map of the region.)

 A previous theory said the Black Sea rose up to 195 feet (60 meters), possibly burying villages and spawning the tale of Noah's flood and other inundation folklore.

(Related: "Noah's Flood" May Have Triggered European Farming" [November 20, 2007].)

But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters).

New Flood Evidence

Marine geologist Liviu Giosan and colleagues carbon-dated the shells of pristine mollusk fossils, which the researchers say bear no evidence of epic flooding.

Found in sediment samples taken from where the Black Sea meets the Danube River, the shells "weren't eroded, agitated, or moved," said Giosan, of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts. "We know the mud is exactly the same age as the shells and so can determine what the sea level was about 9,400 years ago."

The results suggest the Black Sea rose 15 to 30 feet (5 to 10 meters), rather than the 150 to 195 feet (50 to 60 meters) first suggested 13 years ago by Columbia University geologist William Ryan and colleagues. Ryan declined to be interviewed for this story.

Dueling Theories of Noah's Flood

In 1993 a Black Sea expedition found evidence of former shorelines and coastal dunes at depths of up to 390 feet (120 meters).

Researchers said these areas had been flooded when the Mediterranean and the Sea of Marmara—which lies between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea—breached a rocky barrier across the Bosporus, the Turkish strait that links the Maramara with the Black Sea.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090206-smaller-noah-flood.html?source=rss

[Serina]

Some believe that Noah's Ark came to rest on Turkey's Mount Ararat, above.

But the ancient flood that some scientists think gave rise to the Noah story may not have been quite so biblical in proportion, a January 2009 study says.

Photograph by Melik Baghdasaryan/AP/Photolur

[Serina]

Before such a flood, Ryan and colleagues said the flooded regions may have been rife with agricultural settlements. His research supports the notion that the flood submerged some 62,000 square miles (100,000 square kilometers), driving out farmers in droves, thereby supercharging the agricultural development of Europe, to the west.

However, Giosan's new study, which appears in the January issue of the journal Quaternary Science Reviews, indicates a less catastrophic influx, submerging only about 1,240 square miles (2,000 square kilometers).

That's because, according to the new study, the Black Sea's pre-flood water levels were significantly higher than Ryan's study suggested. As a result, there may have been much less water cascading through the Bosporus and onto the exposed continental shelf surrounding the Black Sea.

The ages of the shell fossils detailed in Giosan's report hint that the pre-flood sea surface was only 95 feet (30 meters) lower than it is today. Columbia's Ryan, by contrast, suggests the Black Sea's rise has been at least 150 feet (50 meters) since reconnecting with the Mediterranean some 9,400 years ago.

Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

Giosan's analysis points to a reconnection that was "quite mild," said Mark Siddall, an oceanographer at the University of Bristol in the U.K. who was not involved with the study.

"It looks like the connection may have involved an overspill from the Sea of Marmara of just a few meters," Siddall added.

Tony Brown, a paleo-environmentalist at the University of Southampton in the U.K., said he fully supports Giosan and colleagues' new findings.

"This seems to be a further nail in the coffin of the Ryan hypothesis," Brown said.

"I hope this will counter some recent catastrophist and misguided accounts of the spread of farming across Europe by what is likely a mythical flood."

[BlueHue]

NOA or NOACH's Flood
 was an invasion of IRANIC settlers in Southern ARABY led by Sargon-1 of AGADE not in 2200 bc but: 1255 bc.
They were named the HYKSOS invaders and placed in the 15/16 and 17-th egyptian Dynasty
the Israelians were said to be their TEN tribe descendants.

[Robert0326]

The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?

[Global Dominion]

Archaeology and geology never have an answer, they make it as they go along, sometimes without even any new evidence.

[BlueHue]

The Black Sea breach,
the Explosion/ eruption of THERA the ( Second-)DEMISE iof Atlantis are all ONE EVENT.
Around 1.000 bc the MOON was so close to Earth that it crashed into it TWICE: in 1055 and 855 bc
even the Egyptian and Greek Myths mention this as eyewitnesses

NOA or NOACH Flood was only a Land settler's invasion from Iran
 into South- Araby led by SARGON-1 of AGGADESdd 1255 bc.( not 2220 bc!)

The MOON was called SETH or HAEPHAISTOS
who, only because of it's uglyness
was cast down to earth TWICE, first by HERA to spite Zeus and 200 years later by Zeus to spite Hera

Myth has it that the MOON or Hephaistos waslamed by thes TWO Moon-Falls andstill " LIMPS" (=" Liberation")

WHY is this not commonly known ? BECAUSE King Salmanasser-3 ordered a censorship ban on this information.

The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?

[LoneStar77]

Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

Hello, Serina. Some interesting data. All of the scientific findings you mention may place another nail in the original "Black Sea" hypothesis, but not necessarily in the "Noah's Flood" myth.

Trouble in Genesis
If there is any truth at all in the story of Noah's Flood, scientists may be looking in the wrong era. Much of Genesis seems to be symbolic and cannot be taken literally without logical conflict. If we give the writers of Genesis the benefit of the doubt and assume that there is something valuable and valid here, the timeline given for humanity and the universe is the first I would question. There are too many elements from science that show the universe to be far more than 6000 years old.

For instance, why would God give us the aftermath of the collision of two galaxies when the collision never occurred? If one believes a literal interpretation of Genesis, then "The Mice" galaxies could never have collided, but the apparent evidence of a collision several hundred million years ago is quite evident.

A New Timeline
Now, about Noah's Flood. In 2002, while researching a novel project, I made several biblical discoveries. The devout Christian and clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce had given us two dates for events in Genesis -- 28,000 BC for the Flood, and 10.5 million years ago for Adam. For years, my notes on this lay dormant because they sounded ludicrous, especially the date for Adam. While working on my novel, I ran across my notes and wondered if there could be something to those dates. After a few months' research, I discovered a simple and elegant code in Genesis that gives us Cayce's dates to within 1% of his rounded approximations.

If someone believes neither Cayce nor Genesis, then the argument is entirely moot. But if we suspend any disbelief and investigate the possibilities, it might yield more interesting information.

A Possible Reason for the Flood
In Genesis 6, right before Noah is tapped on the shoulder by God to build the ark, we learn about "men having daughters." That is strange wording, to be sure. Didn't they also have "sons?" Then it talks about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of men" and finding them fair, had children with them. Why is this part of the Flood story? Could it be that herein lays the reason for the Flood?

Who were the "sons of God" and "daughters of men?" There may be clues earlier in Genesis about the "sons." Genesis 1:26 states that God created man in his own image. Yet, a chapter later, God created man from the dust of the ground. Now wait a minute. The image of God would hardly be one of dust. What does this mean? My interpretation is that God is a non-physical, spiritual source of creation. That would make us non-physical, spiritual sources of creation.

As a scientist, perhaps I shouldn't be talking of such things, but my own experience compels me to accept talk of creation and spirit. I know that I am not this physical body called "Carl Martin." A non-traumatic event viewing the world without human eyes allows me to state that. Having created miracles (one of them comparable to Moses parting the sea), I know that there must be something to Genesis 1:26.

The "dust" part may be simply the physical form, Homo sapiens. So man has a dual nature, immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. This dual nature is an important element in many of the world's religions.

So what were the "daughters of men?" Apparently they were not Homo sapiens! What if they were a species that looked like men? Then their children with the "sons" would have been hybrids -- half human and half something else.

What would this have to do with the Flood? One has to ask, what was the purpose of the Flood? Genesis doesn't tell us much -- only that it had to do with some kind of wickedness. But what could have been more wicked than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and other genocidal maniacs of the past few thousand years? What would require a worldwide flood that all the evil in the recorded history of humanity would not have required?

The Reason for Homo sapiens
Perhaps we have to step back a bit and ask a deeper question. What was the purpose of Homo sapiens? Why did God create Homo sapiens?

If the immortal spirit that is man fell from grace, then Homo sapiens may have been created to help restore those immortals -- to reawaken them. What sets Homo sapiens apart is our ability for intelligent speech. If another species (and their hybrid offspring) did not have that ability, then civilization may not have been possible. Why would civilization have been necessary? Hunter-gatherers have precious little time for anything other than subsistence activities. Writing, philosophy and religious discussions would be next to impossible. Civilization would give Homo sapiens the freedom and relatively safety to discuss reawakening -- to have their "day of rest."

If all of this is merely a pleasant fiction, I hope you've been entertained. What is interesting, though, is that Cayce's date (and the new Genesis timeline) for Noah's Flood coincides with one event from science. This is the disappearance of Homo neanderthalensis (Neanderthal man) -- an extremely man-like species that some scientists have speculated may have mated with Homo sapiens.

If my elaborate tale is true, then scientists need to be looking at 28,000 BCE for clues to Noah's Flood.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.GenesisCode.Net
www.MissionAtlantis.Com
www.CarlMartin.Net

[BlueHue]

Archaeology and geology never have an answer, they make it as they go along, sometimes without even any new evidence.

Indeed, you are very right,
One who has read the Geology-catastrophism books of dr Velikovsky
could come to the same conclusions The Timeline of GEOLOGY is off

When Dr Velikovsky told this to the grand public
in 1949 he was demonised for upsetting the " Apple-Cart "

For lack of time I'll only demonstrate one example:

The " Quarternary LAKE BURST" IS SAID TO HAVE OCCURED IN 8.000 BC
but according to the geologist Dr. Velikovsky it was nearer the 800 bc.mark

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009

[BlueHue]

The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?

I think that you are the same Person as mr WIND
under a different Pseudonym,

The Story of NOACH( in the Catholic version )
entails an INVASION of homesettlers from Iran
from the Karakorum Valley in the Indian Hindu-Kush

NOACH
is a shortened  version name for an adventurer King called in history" Sargon-1"
his band of HYKSOS" foreigen shephard Kings " went to South Araby and made war there
later on the Babylonians regarded " NOACH" Siusiztru or whatever as an enemy fore barer

The Israelians were those Hyksos
so in their stay in Babylon they were not likely to tell the thruth about their ancient enmities
instead EZDRAS manipulated the Persian records he found in Persepolis to give the Israelian/ jewish/ Hyksos
 a more friendly nature by changing the Human invasion into a Biblical Flood .

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10  March 2009.

[BlueHue]

Dear............SERINA,

GEOLOGY is not all what it purports to be

The RULE of THUMB for
Global Floods is the following:,

From 10.000 untill 855 bc mean Sea-Leverl rise was 100 meters

From 855 until 755 bc the Sealevel rose a staggering 50 meters

Now you may not know that the Bosphorus-outlet bottom is only 20 meters deep
the Russians have tried to have it deepened out for warships, but were not allowed to

This means that until 855 bc
the Level of the Blacksea was 50 meters lower
This also means that if at that time the Mediaterranean Level
were the samed than there was no waterflow

But If the watertable of the Mediterranean Sea went up faster
than of the Black Sea there would be a cascade from South-West Tto the North-East

This ( generic-)rule of THUMB for Sea-Levelrise
is disregarded by every amateur Geologist confusing the issue !

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009

Before such a flood, Ryan and colleagues said the flooded regions may have been rife with agricultural settlements.the journal Quaternary Science Reviews, indicates a less catastrophic influx, submerging only about 1,240 square miles

the pre-flood water levels were significantly higher than Ryan's study suggested. there may have been much less water cascading through the Bosporus and onto the exposed continental shelf

The ages of the shell fossils detailed in Giosan's report hint that the pre-flood sea surface was only 95 feet (30 meters) lower than it is today. Columbia's Ryan, by contrast, suggests the Black Sea's rise has been at least 150 feet (50 meters) since reconnecting with the Mediterranean some 9,400 years ago.

[BlueHue]

DEAR ..................Mr LONESTAR, ....and QOAIS( who is eaves-dropping )


ca.1055 bc.Occured the EXODUS of MOZES was compiled into the TORA Chapter one " GENESIS "
( meaning freely translated:" About -the -KINGS- of -CANAAN ".)

in the Bible reads like an -unusual- detective Story of Sherlock Holmes.

In case that You did not Know:
The Bible/Tora is a compilation from an Egyptian  chancellery-State record
Similar stories were abound but not included in full, Koran is an addendum to the Tora.

So how You think to find a regular/-elegant- " CODE " in an incompleted doctered Manuscript is a mystery!

EZDRAS found his " Copy" of the Bible /
TANAKAH /TORA, in the egyptian archives at Persepolis whence it was placed by Darius-1
in 444 bc but it took him aparently 40 years to copy it and read it aloud inthe Templesquare of Jerusalem(= KADESH!)

He must have been amazed that the Israelians and Jews were actually originating from the same area
that King Nebukadnesar banished the Egyptian jews to:in 1055 bc 500 years prior to, 589 bc  from the indian Sub-continent./ Irak.
 

MOZES and AAHRON
were two egyptian rival Kings ( Vice-Roys-)of " Atlantis "( egyptian PUA or AAU(= Aii.)
( or: " SIN-Aii "today Slutanate of:" SEiiR ".)
which was a vassal-Kingdom of Egypt on the Arabian Continent.)

BUT in the context of the " ANABASIS =- JUDAIICA "
the priestly urge to go back from the babylonian exile to the original Israel
was twarted because the Jews did not want to become " Paradise-Farmers " again

Was GENESIS a pious Priestly-forgery ?
EZDRAS had to change the Babylonian enemy called Generalissimus-MOZES,
into the gentlemen called " MOZES the Lawgiver and thus Forged
for of political benevolence, the history of his own people to satisfy the Persian Censors !!!

The Reason for the Biblical Flood
In Greek version of the Deluge of DEUKALION, was the HYBRIS of Atlantis
which had conquerred the " European " continent save egypt and part of Italy( Tuscany.)
Thus the ( invasion-)" Flood "of NOACH was too early to be equated with the biblical flood.

Cause of Deukalion Flood
by cosmic movements of Earth's satelite
In the egyptian Texts it is GOD RE who sent his EYE(= the MOON Maatre) or Athargatis/ Ishtar

to punish Mankind with Fire( or RED-desert Dust storms, and spilled over Mountain-Lake-waters
In the Greek Text it is the STORM-God " ZEUS " that sent his messenger Hermes to quenche Earth.
In the HEBREW-version it is the Fire/ Apocalypse Angel called AZRAEL that had set Earth(= Araby!) in a fiercy glow.

In a Greek version
The Son of HELIOS ( called the Night- Sun or Moon" PHAETHON ")
which did dammage to Earth (= Araby.)and even Fell to and on Earth( " Po- River or Eridanus.)
Freely translated Phaethon means: The " Angel -that- Fell- to- Earth "

As a seasoned Forum Member,

I couldn't help noticing that most other theorist-members
are no experts on Greek Mythology, which is why they take it for granted.
ignoring that 'Atlantis' is a Fake name for the greek original ATHE( today ADEN.)

Reference-points to" Find " Atlantis:
I mannaged to shorten- down the usual 50 reference POINTS
hiding  the random gnorance of the mainstream amateur Historians, to
only THREE " BlueHue's RULE of THUMB " to locate the ' original ' Atlantis.

By this time most readers get bored reading my" Speculative-theory "and drop their intrest.
They continue to happily "  Bark-up the wrong tree".
None of the Forummembers read my Discovery -Caption (at this Post-Bottom )seriously.

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009

Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

A New Timeline
Now, about Noah's Flood.events in Genesis -- 28,000 BC for the Flood, and 10.5 million years ago for Adam. A Possible Reason for the Flood
Who were the "sons of God" and "daughters of men?" What would this have to do with the Flood? One has to ask, what was the purpose of the Flood? Genesis doesn't tell us much -- only that it had to do with some kind of wickedness.  looking at 28,000 BCE for clues to Noah's Flood.
LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.GenesisCode.Net
www.MissionAtlantis.Com
www.CarlMartin.Net

[Qoais]

Hi Lonestar

That is strange wording, to be sure. Didn't they also have "sons?" Then it talks about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of men" and finding them fair, had children with them. Why is this part of the Flood story? Could it be that herein lays the reason for the Flood?

I would assume that "they" had sons as well as daughters, but I don't suppose the "sons of God" could breed with the sons of man and get a result could they?  It seems Genesis is trying to say how "we" came about.  Were not the "created beings" of a dual sexual nature, having both sexes within or no sex distinguishing factors at all?  Therefore, perhaps Genesis is trying to explain that the road back to their previous spiritual existance had to be through a reproduction process, as one life-time was not sufficient.  I believe Edgar Cayce explained this.  It seems that the celestial beings that did not get trapped in this plane, wanted to help those who did and devised this method of breeding and re-incarnation as a means for the trapped souls to work their way back to their original spiritual existence. 

Personally - I believe that people give "God" too many human attributes.  I mean, here's someone that not only can create beings, "he" creates universes and everything in them with a precision that is so exact it can't be measured.  Then we're supposed to believe that this omniscient being would be petty enough to "send a flood" upon the very creatures he created because they were being little brats.
Nope.  I don't think so.  He created the world, and the universe, and as the poem says, I'm sure the universe is unfolding as it should, just the way it was meant to.  Floods are part of the creation.  HE doesn't stand there and monitor every little event that happens in every corner of the universe.  It's all on automatic pilot already.  Genesis is merely some poor ignorant trying to grapple with something he didn't understand and did the best he could in telling the story. 

Who told the people they were "bad" and that "god' was sending a flood to punish them?  Not God - the creator of all.  He created all equal and loves them all equally - supposedly.  Again - applying human attributes to God.  God would not play favorites - he would not pick just a few and say I love these best and shall destroy all the rest.  No more than most parents could pick a favorite child, and kill the others.  God does not un-create - in other words, destroy that which he has created. 

[Bianca]

I NEVER heard it so well-put, Q!


Thank you!!!

[BlueHue]

Dear ..................QOAIS .... and......' LONE-RANGER,'


Biblical Creation MYTH: ( is of -Deukalion-    )


in the TIME DEUKALION was the biblical Flood
( in my view dd. 1055 bc.Other versions: 2.000 bc etc.)
The SONs of GOD were the Kanakes or IGIGGI(= Dragon/Elephant-Riders.)
The " Daughters of MEN " would be the ( enemy-)Assyrians.

CENSORSHIPs were to blame for the omittance of People and(correct-) Placenames
In Gilgamesh Epos the original Egyptian Names were Translated into Aramic ,
Like in the Atlantis-Satire the Egyptian Names were translated into greek ones.

" GOD " in that Time was the MOON
the AVATAR of " GOD " was the Arabian Elephant


The Term " Sons -of " GOD "
is NEOPHILLIM in Raphiddim, GOG & Magog GADJAN GHAD HATTI etc means
SON of the SEA an Epithaph for the SERA- Horse or HIPPO-CAMPOS the( Flying-)Elephant !
Thus means " Elephant- Men " or the worshippers ofthe Elephant as a GOD
The Greek word for the Arabian Elephant is: "  Elephas Maximus Assyrus "

PHILLUSTINES and ELEPHANT
are Punician words. EL- GOD PHILL is a derivate of PHUNT/ Punt/ Butho Etc.

They are the same word: they both mean " Elephant or:
" GOD "(= El-) of  PUNT "

In HINDI it reads: HASTINA-PURA and PULASTIYA= Elephant City

" ARABIA - FoELIX "   means " WHITE - Holi- Elephant- COUNTRY "
PHIL or PHULBE means " ELEPHANT in Arabic & Persian.

CONCLUSION:

Greeks and Hebrews had a common origin in South- ARABY:
The Israelians in the Bible-Flood story
were originally a brance of PUNICIANS(= proto-Greeks !)
living in the" original " Punicia( = today " YEMEN ".)

The " SONS of GOD " were Elephant worshippers
POSEIDON was a Sea-Horse-(= Elephant-)GOD
His" Sea-Horses" {= Hippocampii-)or Elephants( called HATI-)
caused Earth-Quakes. to be pre-warned for
 by long training in then Earth-Quake/ Tornado Country(= Yemen.)

" GOD " was: Salmanasser-3, who ' demonised ' Posedon as an Elephant -God
and replaced him with ARES( later called MARS.)in 855 bc.
THAT is WHY the NAME" Elephant " ELOHIM replaced by JAHWEH, of the " GOD "  in the Bible.

I mentioned this before: Read my Subscript( Bottom of Posting !)
but apparently it hasn't sunken in yet @!

Also read my  # 3 RULES of THUMB for locating the " Original " Atlantis ^ Above THIS POST ^

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009