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 31 
 on: April 16, 2021, 03:21:51 am 
Started by senator Bam - Last post by knakker
Olam is the Hebrew equivalent for Greek word aion. See Helena Maria Keizer, Life, Time, Entirety. An aion is a vast periode of time with a clear beginning and an end. A more popular meaning of olam is "horizon". Then, we are close to the horizon in the west were Atlantis was located. From the one aion one looks over the horizon to the next one. I recommened you to read Bob Evely's book, At the End of the Ages. Aion means never eternal. I have explained before that the 9000 years of Atlantis were simply mentioned to exxagerate it's history. As the Egyptian Kings list was an exaggeration, to make the Egyptian history more impressive. Even the Septuagint which was written in Alexandria has exaggerated dates. Still the apostle Paul is quoting from it.

Now, Elam in the Bible is Persia/Iran. Since I am learning Farsi I know that elam means "to announce" in Farsi.

I am the world's authority on Atlantis. I know everything. First step is getting a good Bible. If Ephesians 3:9, 11 uses the word aions, then it is a good bible. If it uses the words eternity, world or even ages it is not a good Bible, no matter in which book shop you had bought it. For Atlantis research I recommend to use www.scripture4all.org

- leon elshout, https://roodgoudvanparvaim.nl


 32 
 on: April 15, 2021, 06:52:05 pm 
Started by senator Bam - Last post by senator Bam
Thanks Knakker.

That bit about Elam eternity is re the name/word Elam may mean olam "world" or "age/eternity" in Hebrew.

 33 
 on: April 15, 2021, 07:00:13 am 
Started by senator Bam - Last post by knakker
Hey, Atlantis in the Bible is the title of my free online book. I am the specialist here. Your list is such a chaos. For example:

"Elam's name means "age/eternity" which could match Atlantis of 9500s bc."

The Bible doesn't mention this word eternity. You should use the word "aionian". Elam is Persia.

https://roodgoudvanparvaim.nl

 34 
 on: April 15, 2021, 03:13:35 am 
Started by senator Bam - Last post by senator Bam

We have searched the Bible for possible mention of Atlantis and below we list and give brief reasons for the only major candidates we have found.

List of 34 candidates for Atlantis/Poseidonis island/city in the Bible:
Enoch city (Genesis)
Japheth (Genesis)
Magog/Gog/Rosh (Genesis 10, Ezek 38, Lxx, Revelation) **
Tubal (Genesis 10)
Tiras (Genesis 10)
Ashkenaz/Ashkuz (Genesis 10)
Riphath (Genesis 10)
Tarshish (Genesis 10, 2 Chron 9, Ezekiel 38) ***
Kittim (Genesis 10, ...) **
Havilah (Genesis 10)
Seba (Genesis 10)
Sabtah (Genesis 10)
Sabteca (Genesis 10)
Raamah (Genesis 10)
Tower of Babel (Genesis 10-11)
Great city of Asshur/Resen (Genesis 10) ***
Caphtorim (Genesis 10, ...) **
Philistim (Gen 10, Judges, 1 Sam) *
Canaan/Sidon (Genesis 10)
Elam (Chedorlaomer, Arioch, Jim Allen)
Almodad (Genesis 10)
Kedar (Genesis)
mountains of Seir (Genesis, 1 Chron 1-2)
enemies of Egypt (Exodus) *
far country (Joshua)
Ha-saponi (preprophetic/prophetic period, Spanuth) *
temple (Ezekiel, Alford)
beast/dragon/iron (Daniel, Revelation) *
army of locusts (Joel 2) *
quake (Amos) *
Nineveh (Jonah, Nahum, Zephaniah)
harlot Babylon the great (Peter, Revelation)
666/RoTaS (Revelation)
Abaddon/Apollyon (Revelation).

We have asterisked the most likely ancient historical candidates (excluding modern/future prophetic candidates). (No asterisks = least likely, 1 asterisk = possible, 2 asterisks = 2nd most likely candidates for the island, 3 asterisks = the most likely candidates for the city).

Evidences reasons for each of the 34 candidates:

Enoch city (Genesis):
Poseidon founded Atlantis before invention of sailing/ships. Cain founded Enoch before the flood.
Some equate Atlantis' sinking with the Great Flood.
Enoch has been compared to Tenochtitlan and Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku/Wanaku (which latter is our Atlantis city candidate site).

Japheth (Genesis):
Japheth's descendents settled "the isles of the gentiles" which could match/include Atlantis.
Japheth had "10 sons" in some sources (though he has 7 sons & 7 grandsons in Genesis 10). Atlantis had 10 kings.
Japheth might match Poseidon of the Atlantis account.
Japheth's name meaning implies he is a inventor of technological and other advancements, which is similar to Atlantis seemingly being similar metal technology inventors.
Japheth/Diphath might match Thoth/Djehewty who is said to have come from a land in the west which is similar to Atlantis.
Some of Japheths sons and grandsons have possibe matches with Atlantis (see Magog, Tubal, Tiras, Ashkenaz, Riphath, Tarshish, Kittim below).

Magog/Gog/Rosh (Genesis 10, Ezek 38, Lxx, Revelation): **
We identify Atlantis capital city as Tiahuanaco in Peru.
Magog's name could match Manco Capac of Peruvian myth?
Magog's name meaning could match the Andes.
Magog is 2nd son of Gomer the 1st son of Japheth the eldest son of Noah, and he is the 2nd of the 70 nations of Genesis 10, so Magog is sufficiently early enough to match with the early/ancient Atlantis of the Atlantis Account ("Plato").
Gog and Magog in Revelation seem to be used for all nations in Revelation, which must imply some special reason (ie what historical connection does Magog have with all nations?) Atlantis is a power which seems to have had worldwide connections.

Tubal:
Tubal's name meaning is linked with metals. Atlantis and Tiahuanaco are assoicated with metals.
Tubal's name is similar to Atlas?

Tiras (Genesis 10):
Tiras' name could link with Tros/Troy or Atlas (r/l interchange)?
Tiras may mean "desire/longing" or "breaking" or "terrifying, fracture". The desire/longing could match Atlantis appeal from Plato to now. The breaking or terrifying/fracture could match either Atlantis sinking, or arrogant Atlantean invaders & slavers, or break up of the Aryan/Indo-European languages.
Tiras is one of the only Genesis 10 Japhethite nations to not be mentioned/identified/located in later Biblical books, which some suggest might mean that Tiras was in America (Atlantis). (Compare that Tiras is assoicated with 4 large islands [the west?] in [Jasher?])
Tiras is the last of the 7 sons of Japheth which could mean he matches the latest invasion or culture in preistoric European history.

Ashkenaz/Ashkuz:
Ashkenaz is maybe vaguely similar to Atlas/Atlantis.
Ashkenaz is the eldest son of Gomer the eldest son of Japheth the eldest son of Noah, and he is the 1st son of the 1st of the 70 nations in Genesis 10, which could match the Aryans or Atlantis.
Ashkenaz means "fire that spreads, fire as scattered, a man as sprinkled, sprinkled with fire".
Ashkenaz is associated with horsemen. Atlanteans had horse racing.
Ashkenaz's land/location is not mentioned, which might fit with a location in Americas/Atlantis.

Riphath/Diphath:
Riphath/Diphath is maybe similar to Posei-don/Potei-don/Neptune?
Riphath means "spoken" or "poundings/shakings" or  "health/remedy/release/pardon".
Riphath is associated with the sea Gihon or Oceanus in the Book of Jasher.

Tarshish (Genesis 10, 2 Chron 9, Ezekiel 38, Jonah): ***
Tarshish's meanings "stone/rock/hard" & "gravitational energy, precipitant force" might match the Megalithic/Heliolithic culture of Western Europe and Peru (where our Atlantis candidate Tiahuanaco is).
Tarshish is the "name of a sea 2000 parasangs wide" which could match the Atlantic ocean.
Tarshish was in the heart of the seas (27:25) which could match Atlantis?
The navy/ships of Tarshish (10:22, 2:16, 23:1, 60:9, 27:5) can match Atlantis.
One of Tarshish's suggested meanings "a destruction that breaks into pieces of white, ie white volcanic ash rock or pumice" is similar to Thera/Santorini which some suppose to be Atlantis.
Tarshish may mean rss/rasasu "mine" or "yellow/jasper", and Tarshish is associated with metals/silver/gold (10:22, 10:9, 27:12). Atlantis is assoicated with the metals gold, silver and orichalc "gold copper".
The kings of Tarhsish (72:10) could match the 10 kings of Atlantis.
The daughter of Tarshish (23:10) might be Tartessos?
Tarshish was a stronghold (23:14), which recalls Atlantis city.
Tarshish versus Ishmael/Havilah/Egypt (Book of Jasher 50:1-6) is similar to Atlantis vs Athens & Egypt?
Tarshish had merchant(s) & riches (27:12, 38:13), like Atlantis did.
Tarshish's meaning "hard, hardness, severity, breaking, broken, subdued, subjected" might match arrogant Atlantean invaders and slavers.
Tarshish is often supposed to be Tartessos. Tartessos is also sometimes compared with Atlantis.
Tarshish is decribed in one source as "a wealthy and flourishing seaport town", which sounds alot like Atlantis or Tartessos.

Kittim (Genesis 10, ...): **
Kittim were "invaders" like Atlanteans were "invaders".
Kittim were "western" like Atlantis is in the west in Plato. (Kittim might match the Western Neolithic culture of prehistoric Europe?)
"Ships of Kittim" might match Atlantis.
Kittim's name similar to Keftiou, Crete, and Clito (of Atlantis)?
Kittim/Kasdim called "bitter and hasty nation" might match arrogant Atlantean invaders & slavers.
There is no "and" between Tarshish and Kittim, which may mean either that Elishah and Tarshish are a pair, or Tarshish & Kittim are a associated. Tarshish and Kittim both have matches with Atlantis.

Havilah:
Havilah "circular", "twisting" could link with concentric circles city of Atlantis?
Cush could match the Indian/Hindu Kusa which some identify with South America which is our Atlantis island candidate.
Havilah is the land of gold and the 1st of the 4 world lands/rivers/ages in Genesis 2.
Some link Havilah & Pishon with Colchis & Phasis which Bailey located in the Andean region where our Atlantis city site is.
The other Havilah is a son of Joktan who has a similar number of sons to Poseidon in the Atlantis account.

Seba:
Seba "surrounds entrance" could link with concentric circles city of Atlantis?
Cush could match the Indian/Hindu Kusa which some identify with South America which is our Atlantis island candidate.
Seba is associated with traffickers, stones, gold.

Sabtah:
Sabtah "surrounded by clefts/fissures", "go about" could link with concentric circles city of Atlantis?
Cush could match the Indian/Hindu Kusa which some identify with South America which is our Atlantis island candidate.

Sabteca:
Sabteca "surrounded by what is laid down", "lead around" could link with concentric circles city of Atlantis?
Cush could match the Indian/Hindu Kusa which some identify with South America which is our Atlantis island candidate.

Raamah:
Raamah "lofty/heights" or "thunder(ous)" or "tremble/quake" or "horse mane" could link with Rimac/Lima or the Andes or Atlas or Poseidon (who is associated with horses and quakes) or Atlantis (quake(s)).

Tower of Babel (Genesis 10-11)

Great city of Asshur/Resen (Genesis 10): ***
Many translations have 4 or 3 cities of Asshur in Genesis 10, while some translations say "all these the great city". Translations differ on whether Asshur is the name of the land or the name of the founder (and whether the founder is Asshur or Nimrod, and whether Asshur is the Shemite Asshur or a name of Nimrod).
The "great city" of Asshur or the great city Resen in Genesis 10 is one of the only few cities called great in the whole bible, and this label/description could match Atlantis city.
The great city is sufficiently early enough in Biblical history to match the early/ancient date of Atlantis in the Atlantis Account.
The meanings of the names of the city or cities of Asshur seemingly may match with parts of Tiahuanaco & parts of Atlantis (in the 1 great city of Asshur scenario), or may match with 3 cities of Peru including Tiahuanaco/Atlantis city (in the 3 cities of Asshur scenario).
Asshur/Nimrod going forth out of Shinar into "Asshur"/unnamed-land is similar to Poseidon in the Atlantis Account, and Meski-aggaseir/Saggi-aggusheir going up into the mountains in the Sumerian king list.
For much fuller details and explanation see http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7212 .

Caphtorim/Caphtor (Genesis 10, ...): **
Caphtor may mean "knob" or "capital (of column/pilar)", which meanings might match Atlantis (concentric city with hill in centre, pillar/pillars).
The Philistines came from Caphtor at same time the Hebrews'/Israelites' exodus from Egypt. Some link Caphtor with Keftiou and Atlantis. Caphtor matches the Assyrian Kaptara where they fished amber out of the sea where the pole star stands at its zenith, which Spanuth thought matched his Atlantis candidate Heligoland. The Philistines also have been connected with Atlantis (see next block).
Caphtor's name might be linked with Azores?

Philistim (Gen 10, Judges, 1 Sam): *
The Philistines came from Caphtor at same time the Hebrews'/Israelites' exodus from Egypt. Some link Caphtor with Keftiou and Atlantis (see previous block).
Philistines had a pillar cult in story of Samson, like Atlantis did.
Philistine fish god Dagon similar to Posei-d(a)on "lord/father Don".
Philistines are suggested to match the Peleset Sea Peoples. The Sea Peoples are suggested to match the Atlanteans.
Philistines had 5 cities. Atlantis had 5 x 2 kings.
Philistine giants had 6 digits. Pictures at our Atlantis city site Tiahuanaco have 6 digits.
Philistine means "immigrants/settlers/strangers".

Canaan/Sidon (Genesis 10):
Some compare Sidon with Poseidon.
Canaan had a similar number of sons to Poseidon in the Atlantis Account.
Canaanites "spread abroad".
Canaan means "down low" like Atlantis "sank"?

Elam (Chedorlaomer, Arioch, Jim Allen):
Jim Allen compared Ecbatana's design with Atlantis city and/or with his Atlantis site in Bolivia.
Elam's name is similar to Atlan-tis.
Elam's name means "age/eternity" which could match Atlantis of 9500s bc.

Almodad:
Almodad's name means "measurer" which might be connected with Atlantis? Joktan had a similar number of sons to Poseidon in the Atlantis Account.

Kedar:
Kedar of the Bible and Kedarus of Sanchuniathon are similar to Gadeira in the Atlantis Account.

mountains of Seir (Genesis, 1 Chron 1-2):
Seir &/or Esau/Edom is/are said to have gone up into the mountains in Genesis. The Sumerian king list gives very similar description of Meskiaggaseir/Saggiaggusheir going up in the mountains. Seir's name might match the -seir in Meskiaggaseir? Sitchin &/or other source suggests the mountains that Meskiaggaseir went up into are the Andes, which might match Poseidon in the Atlantis Account since we identifiy Atlantis city with Tiahuanaco.

enemies of Egypt (Exodus): *
Atlantis 900(0) yrs before 500s bc matches Moses 480 yrs before Solomon of ca 1000/900s bc. The Atlanteans were enemies of the Egyptians. Exodus says the Pharoah & Egyptians were afraid the Hebrews would join with their enemies (who are unnamed/unidentified).

far country (Joshua)

Ha-saponi (preprophetic/prophetic period, Spanuth): *
Spanuth associates the Ha-saponi "northerners" of preprophetic or prophetic period in Jewish source with the Sea Peoples and the Atlanteans.

temple (Ezekiel, Alford):
We are pretty sure that Atlantis city matches Tiahuanaco. Alford's book reckons the temple in Ezekiel matches or is a copy of the temple at Tiahuanaco.

beast/dragon/iron (Daniel, Revelation, Gildas): *
The beast has 10 horns/kings. Atlantis had 10 kings.
The beast rose from the Great Sea. Atlantis came from the Atlantic and invaded upto Italy & Egypt.
The beast is identified as Roman empire. Atlantis conquered upto Tyrrhenia/Italy.
The beast has 7/8 heads in Revelation. Atlantis is the "8th continent".
The beast was, is not, is coming. Atlantis was, sank, is "rising".
Daniel was a contemporary of Solon. Philo (who mentions Atlantis) was a near contemporary of John.
Atlantis is associated with iron age.
The wounded head could be Atlantis; the healed wounded head could be Atlantis rising.
All the world wondering after the beast would not be surprising if it is an Atlantis resurrected.

army of locusts (Joel 2) *

quake (Amos): *
The quake in Amos might be conected with the quake(s) in the sinking of Atlantis?

Nineveh (Jonah, Nahum, Zephaniah)

harlot Babylon the great (Peter, Revelation):
The harlot Babylon sits amidst many waters. Atlantis was a sea power.
The beast the harlot rides has 10 horns/kings. Atlantis had 10 kings.
The harlot Babylon was a commerical power overseeing global free trade. Atlantis was apparently a trading power.
The harlot Babylon is called "the great". We think Atlantis city might be the city of Asshur in Genesis which is called "the great".
The harlot Babylon is in the wilderness. The wilderness might possibly match the plain around Tiahuanaco?

666/TRS (Revelation):
666 in Hebrew and/or Aramaic numerals is RoTaS/SaTuR/TRS. TRS is similar to Tros/Troy or Artus/Arthur or Atlas with a r/l interchange?
Three sixes large medium & small superimoosed could match 3 concentric circles city symbol of Atlantis?
The Alternative 616 is similar to twin city symbol in Andean and other pictures which seems to be a symbol of Atlantis city.
Some sources also connect Atlantis with Golden Land & Saturnia & Chronian sea.
TRS was used as a code signal/password in Bridges book (Stones from the Sky?)

Abaddon/Apollyon (Revelation) :
Abaddon is similar to Poseidon?
Abaddon rises from Bottomless Pit. Atlantis sank and is "rising"?
Apollyon ~ Apollo/Hyperborea. Some sources link Hyperborea with Aryans and with Atlantis/Atlanteans.

 35 
 on: April 15, 2021, 12:17:58 am 
Started by knakker - Last post by knakker
Plato was clear in the fact that Atlantis sunk completely to the sea bottom (See Revelation 18:23; Jeremiah 51:63-64) and that the continent on the otherside was America. You are right that there is no continent between Africa and America on thne sea bottom. Because it was the location of the Greek underworld. There was never any island Atlantis there. Never.

For the rest of your answers, you completely miss the mark of what I try to explain you. Atlantis is much more complex than you describe. You cannot simply say that Atlantis is Assur. It doesn't work like that. Atlantis has to fit in the aionian times and in tsaphon from sunrise to sundown. Atlantis has NOTHING tyo do with ruins but everything with the end of world capitalism on the banks of the Euphrates. And I did my homework.

 36 
 on: April 14, 2021, 08:29:38 pm 
Started by knakker - Last post by senator Bam
To begin with, Babylon is a desert city but connected to all the seas of the world through the Euphrates and, according to Revelation 17: 1-5, lies at the heart of all the world's seas. Furthermore, End Time Babylon / Hillah is the commercial capital of the Fourth End Kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:40 and &: 19 & 7:23. This empire is in the Middle East, has ten kings and is certainly the size that Plato mentioned. Asia Minor is now Turkey.

Sorry I missed this bit. There doesn't seem to be any edit post option?

I  agree that the 10 horns/kings of Daniel/Revelation might be 10 kings of Atlantis (& modern Atlantis Rising).
But the harlot/**** Babylon is riding the beast in Revelation so she is not the beast, though it is possible she is the capital city as you suggest.

The archaeological Babylon doesn't fit Atlantis of the Atlantis Account.
The biblical harlot Babylon in Revelation does sit among the waters, which might be "lies at the heart of the the worlds seas" like you suggest, though I'm not sure if that is what it means.

Babylon in Revelation might be Atlantis city as you have suggested (and as I have also wondered myself too). But in Genesis 10 I think Atlantis better matches the great city of Ashur rather than Babel. So I'm not totally sure myself what the correct match is in the bible for Atlantis city. The great city of Asshur and the harlot Babylon are both one of the only few cities in bible to be called "great". "Nineveh" in Jonah and Nahum/Habbukuk/Zephaniah might also be connected figuratively.

 37 
 on: April 14, 2021, 08:16:13 pm 
Started by knakker - Last post by senator Bam
It is clear that the essence of my postings has completely passed you by.

Then for the umpteenth time.

Then you have not understood all my postings or you probably have not even read them.

I don't know what other posts you are referring to, I was replying to this thread/topic which I did read and understand though only very few details were given.

You approach Atlantis from an archaeological point of view, I do this from the theological point of view. These are two completely different approaches.

We should seek to synthesize all relevant types/fields of of evidences. I have searched the bible for Atlantis and found a number of possible candidates with the two best matches for the city being Asshur in Genesis 10 and Tarshish. But any candidate for Atlantis must match all the details given in the Atlantis Account, and match geography & history.
I'm not interested in fantasy or convenient.

Atlantis city cannot be Tiahauanco, which after all is not on the seabed.

This is the most often criticism that many people keep throwing at my Tiahuanaco thesis. However the wording of the original language version of the Atlantis Account is not so definite that Atlantis island/city "sank", and it is not clear whether the whole large island "sank" or just the royal island capital city "sank", and it doesn't say how long it "sank" for as it doesn't cover all the time after/since then until now. And Tiahuanaco is described as being involved in a very similar words description event eg "an avalanche/flood of water, and a sudden upheaval of unknown nature" etc (compare "quake(s) & flood(s)" etc in Atlantis Account). But unfortunately everyone I try to show the evidences to just keeps asserting "Atlantis is/was sank, Tiahuanaco isnt/didnt".
For more evidences see http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=105&ChapterID=1593

Moreover, in Timaios 25, Plato clearly mentioned the continent on the opposite side which is of course America, wherever Tiahauanco lies.

The Atlantis Account doesn't say the Opposite Continent was America/Americas.
The Opposite Continent can't be Americas because there is not sunken/submerged large landmass (Atlantis) between Americas & Europe/Africa.
With Atlantis as (South) America(s) the Opposite Continent can be either Antarctica, North America, Asia, Australia, Mu/Lemuria.
The Atlantis Account is ambiguous so it is even possible that the opposite continent is actually the large island of Atlantis (South America) as seen from the royal island capital city Tiahuanaco in the Atlantic sea Titicaca.

Atlantis as Tiahauanco would also not fit in the Biblical system of the aionian times.

I assume you mean the conflict of 9000 yrs before Solon date.
The Atlantis 9000 yrs date is true but it it not certainly not literally true because of a number of reasons including Sais and Athens were not arround then, it conflicts with Bible's chronology, the Atlantis Account seems to imply Atlantis was bronze age & time of Mycenaeans.
The great city of Asshur of Genesis 10 would fit Atlantis as being one of the earliest founded cities.

To begin with, Babylon is a desert city but connected to all the seas of the world through the Euphrates and, according to Revelation 17: 1-5, lies at the heart of all the world's seas. Furthermore, End Time Babylon / Hillah is the commercial capital of the Fourth End Kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:40 and &: 19 & 7:23. This empire is in the Middle East, has ten kings and is certainly the size that Plato mentioned. Asia Minor is now Turkey.

Why did Plato place Atlantis in the west while Babylon is in the east. This is because everything was mirrored within the range from sunrise to sunset.

No good. Atlantis Account and other sources clearly implies western direction literally eg invaded/conquered upto Tyrrhenia/Italy and Libya/Egypt, Atlantic sea, Pillars of Hercules.
Unless Babel/Shinar is not Babylon/Sumer (or Rome).

More precisely, Babylon is located not only to the east but also to the north of Jerusalem. The south is then Egypt.

Where does Bible say Babel/Babylon was north?

Furthermore, it is quite clear that Athanasius Kircher's Atlantis map has the shape of a harp. Just like the Sea of ​​Galilee (Psalm 49: 4).

Kirchir is not necessarily very reliable. His map clearly has Atlantis in Atlantic between North or South America and Europe & Africa. His Atlantis is land not sea. His Atlantis is similar shape to South or North America.

Around this lake were ten cities that resonated with the ten kings of Atlantis.

I think your match with the 10 horns/kings of Daniel/Revelation is better (I also had this match too). I don't think the 10 cities of Galilee are a good match.

One of those cities was Gadara that resonated with Gadeira.

I also noticed that too, but it doesn't match in details. There are a score of places that have similar names to Gadeira of the Atlantis Account including the Kedarus of Sanchuniathon and Kedar in the bible, Gades/Gadir. Agadir, Adirondacks. etc.

All I admit to you is that it is not entirely certain whether Tartessos is indeed Tarshish. But it is obvious to think this. Tarshish, according to King Esarhaddon, was not a peninsula but an island completely surrounded by the sea.

What are Esarhaddon's actual words?
"Island" in Greek, Egyptian, Biblical can mean either isle/island, peninsula, continent, coastlands.
Sources say Tartessos was between 2 river mouths. Bible doesn't seem to say if Tarshish was an island.

Ezekiel 38:13 is about End Time Tarshish that still exists in our time. In the passage we read about a mighty seafaring island with independent ex colonies (young lions). This can only be England and not Spain. Who won the Falklands war again? Not the Spanish colonies. In the time of King Solomon we already read about Tarsish, which is England.

Britain is not the only seafaring nation in history, and Tarshish isn't the only one in the bible. The ships of Kittim could be Britain (or USA or Atlantis).
I don't think young lions matches colonies.
Some details of Tarshish & of Tartessos which I listed don't match Britain.
Yes Ezekiel's merchants of Tarshish existed in his times and are in "end time" prophesy, so they might not match Atlantis, and they may match some modern nation, but I don't see much of a match with Britain.

This also means that the Strait of Gibraltar was not blocked by the mud of Atlantis, as Plato claimed.

The muddy shoal/sea was where the island "sank".
The Pillars of Hercules in Atlantis Account are not identified as Gibraltar in the Atlantis Account. Though they could be the ones there. Some scholars have cast doubts on the Gibraltar location. Atlantis was protu "before" the Pillars. "outside they came from the sea of Atlas (Titicaca)", which some say means the Atlanteans "came outside". "Atlantis was inside the Pillars, Athens was outside the Pillars". The Pillars were the most distant point of the world. The evidences seemingly suggest that the pillars may have been near Atlantis city. There are possible matches for the pillars in Peru area and/or other places between Peru and Gibraltar.
There are matches for muddy sea in Peruvian http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=105&ChapterID=1647 near end .

 38 
 on: April 14, 2021, 04:58:42 am 
Started by knakker - Last post by knakker
And... nothing is sure about what Tartessos exactly was, a city, area, country, river or all three. So let us be carefully to project Tartessos on Andalusia. If Tartessos is indeed Tarshish, which souns reasonable then I would say that Tartessos is both England, London and the Thames.

 39 
 on: April 14, 2021, 04:34:37 am 
Started by knakker - Last post by knakker
It is clear that the essence of my postings has completely passed you by.

Then for the umpteenth time. You approach Atlantis from an archaeological point of view, I do this from the theological point of view. These are two completely different approaches. Atlantis city cannot be Tiahauanco, which after all is not on the seabed. Moreover, in Timaios 25, Plato clearly mentioned the continent on the opposite side which is of course America, wherever Tiahauanco lies. The west where Plato placed Atlantis was actually the Greek underworld and not a physical island, which is what Plato made it. Atlantis as Tiahauanco would also not fit in the Biblical system of the aionian times.

You say that Atlantis cannot be Babylon / Al-Hillah because of the wrong direction and the size etc. Then you have not understood all my postings or you probably have not even read them. To begin with, Babylon is a desert city but connected to all the seas of the world through the Euphrates and, according to Revelation 17: 1-5, lies at the heart of all the world's seas. Furthermore, End Time Babylon / Hillah is the commercial capital of the Fourth End Kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:40 and &: 19 & 7:23. This empire is in the Middle East, has ten kings and is certainly the size that Plato mentioned. Asia Minor is now Turkey. Why did Plato place Atlantis in the west while Babylon is in the east. This is because everything was mirrored within the range from sunrise to sunset.

More precisely, Babylon is located not only to the east but also to the north of Jerusalem. The south is then Egypt. Furthermore, it is quite clear that Athanasius Kircher's Atlantis map has the shape of a harp. Just like the Sea of ​​Galilee (Psalm 49: 4). Around this lake were ten cities that resonated with the ten kings of Atlantis. One of those cities was Gadara that resonated with Gadeira. All I admit to you is that it is not entirely certain whether Tartessos is indeed Tarshish. But it is obvious to think this. Tarshish, according to King Esarhaddon, was not a peninsula but an island completely surrounded by the sea.

Ezekiel 38:13 is about End Time Tarshish that still exists in our time. In the passage we read about a mighty seafaring island with independent ex colonies (young lions). This can only be England and not Spain. Who won the Falklands war again? Not the Spanish colonies. In the time of King Solomon we already read about Tarsish, which is England. This also means that the Strait of Gibraltar was not blocked by the mud of Atlantis, as Plato claimed.

leon elshout, https://roodgoudvanparvaim.nl

 40 
 on: April 14, 2021, 12:25:43 am 
Started by knakker - Last post by senator Bam

What are your reasons for identifying Tartessos &/or Tarshish with London/England?

From my own research I think its pretty sure from the Classical sources and other evidences that Tartessos was/is in south west Iberia and most likely somewhere between the Guadiana and Guadalquivir rivers. The most likely site is Huelva which Wikipedia lists quite a few quality evidences for.

Tarshish might or might not be Tartessos. I'm not sure of what location is most likely. Its details do seem pretty similar to Atlantis.

Atlantis city I am pretty sure is Tiahauanco in Peru/Bolivia wich has a number of compelling matches evidences (including the hill/mountain in centre, concentric circles, etc). Atlantis can't be in Galilee or Babylon/Hillah as they don't match details such as size, distance, direction, high mountains, large plain, "sunk", etc. The great city of Asshur in Genesis 10 also possibly matches both Tiahuanaco and Atlantis city.

London/Britain might match some other ancient uncertain location lands.

Tartessos/Tartessus identification details:
name Tartessos, meaning turdus "thrush"?
in Iberia.
an island.
very prosperous market.
harbour city.
great squared stones which Romans reused in other sites.
a tidal river (Tartessos/Baetis) which is largest in Iberia and which rises from the Pyrene mountain or Celtic lands and runs down / flows out to the sea by 2 mouths/arms which the city is between.
beyond/outside the Pillars of Herakles/Hercules/Melkart.
king Arganthonius "silver" ruled for 80 yrs & lived to 120 yo.
king Gargoris who invented bee-keeping.
rich in metals/tin/gold/copper.
a huge trade monopoly.
tin trade.
trading partners of Phoenicians.
nobles fond of hunting, travel, arts, sciences.
may have worshipped Astarte or Potnia and Baal or Melkart.
weasels there.
was in the west like Salmydessus was in the east.
may have disappeared due to conquest by Carthaginians in 533 bc, or may have been lost due to flooding.
700(0)/600(0) yrs before Strabo (63 bc - ad 21).

Tarshish details:
Name means rss/rasasu "mine" or "yellow/jasper" or "solid, rocky", or "a destruction that breaks into pieces of white, ie white volcanic ash rock or pumice" or "hard, hardness, severity, breaking, broken, subdued, subjected" or "gravitational energy, precipitant force".
navy/ships of (10:22, 2:16, 23:1, 60:9, 27:5).
Reached from Tyre, Ophir, Aqaba (3 yrs return trip), east wind, Joppa & Nineveh (10:22, 22:48, Chronicles 9:21, Chronicles 20:36, 48:7, Jonah).
metals/silver/gold (10:22, 10:9, 27:12).
ivory (10:22).
apes/babbons/monkeys (10:22).
peacocks/parrot (10:22).
merchant(s), riches (27:12, 38:13).
kings of (72:10).
daughter of (23:10).
stronghold (23:14).
in the heart of the seas (27:25)?
young lions (38:13).
There is no "and" between Tarshish & Kittim, which may mean Elishah & Tarshish are a pair, or Tarshish & Kittim are linked (Genesis 10).
versus Ishmael/Havilah/Egypt (Jasher 50:1-6)?
"name of a sea 2000 parasangs wide"?
stone of Tarshish.

Possible candidate locations of Tartessos in Iberia/Spain/Portugal (around the coast from west to east):
(Douro/Durius river, nw Portugal?)
(Tagus/Tejo river, sw Portugal?)
Lisbon/Olisipo/AlisUbbo, sw Portugal?
(Sado/Calipus river, sw Portugal?)
Mertola, se Portugal?
(Guadiana/AnavelAnas/Odiana river, sw Spain?)
necropolis at/in Medellin on the Guadiana, sw Spain?
(Odiel river, sw Spain?)
isla Saltes, sw Spain?
Huelva, sw Spain (enormous harbour walls, stone staircases, campina fertil, Arenilla & Umbria, Hercules place name)? *
(Rio Tinto, sw Spain (copper mines, canals between Tinto & Guadalquivir)?)
Niebla/Neibla sw Spain (inland harbour, cyclopean ruins)?
(Sierra Morena sw Spain (rich mineral deposits?)
(Marisma de Hinojos within Donana sw Spain?)
(Donana National Park (marshes, dunes, canals between Tinto & Guadalquivir, a 50 m x 40 m building which is half the size of Atlantis' palace/temple)?) *
(las Marismas del Guadalquivir, sw Spain?)
(Guadalquivir/Baetis/Kertis/Rerkes river, sw Spain (network of canals)?)
(Turdetani "thrush" tribe, Baeturia, sw Spain (most civilised, least warlike, writing, books, poems, laws)?)
ElCarambolo hill in Camas, sw Spain (gold hoard, wares)?
Seville/Hispalis, sw Spain (sun temple)?
Arcos?
Jerez, sw Spain?
Cadiz/Gades/Gadir, sw Spain (temple Melkart)? *
Barbate, sw Spain?
Spartel Bank sw Spain?
Carteia/ElRocadillo, sw Spain (Pliny)?
Tarteia, sw Spain? *
Carpia/Karpessos, sw Spain (Pausanias, Appian)? *
Gibraltar/Jabaltariq/Calpe, sw Spain?
Cartagena/SanRoque, sw Spain?
Ronda/Arunda, sw Spain (hydraulic engineering works, cyclopean ruins)?
Cartagena/Carthagonova, se Spain?
Elche/Elx, se Spain?
Tortosa, ne Spain?
(Ebro/Iberus river, ne Spain?)
Zaragosa/CaesarAugusta ne Spain?
Mt Montserrat (bull carved in stone)?
Tarragona/Tarraco, ne Spain?
Barcelona/Barcino, ne Spain (whale)?
(Ter river, ne Spain?)

Other suggested locations of Tarshish &/or Tartessos outside of Iberia/Spain/Gibraltar/Portugal/Andorra/Navarre:
Tarascan/Tabascan (Mexico/Mesomaerica)?
Tara (Ireland)?
Tintagel/Truro (UK)?
Dart (UK)?
Tardenoisian (sw France)?
Megalithic/heliolithic culture (see rock/stone/hard & force/energy meaning of Tarshish)?
Ceuta (nth Morocco)?
Tetouan (nth Morocco)?
Tech (sth France)?
Massilia (se France)?
Sardinia (Italy)?
Etruscans (Italy)?
Tarxien (Malta)?
Tartarus (far west, Hades, Greek/Classical/Roman)?
Thera (see volcanic meaning of Tarshish)?
Atlantis (Greek/Egyptian/Atlantean, definitely matches Tiahuanaco)? *
Russian?
Troy (nw Turkey)?
Dardanelles (nw Turkey/Greece/Bulgaria)?
Sardis?
Tarhuntassa (Hittite)?
Trapezium (ne Turkey)?
Tarsus (se Turkey)?
Atur-res/Pathros (Egypt)?
Tarshish (rss "mine" / "yellow/jasper" / "solid/rocky", sea ... parasangs wide, Biblical/Hebrew)? *
Atrahasis (Mesopotamian & Hittite/Hurrian)?
Susan?
Thar (India/Pakistan)?

References/sources on Tartessos (or Tarshish or Iberia) :
Appian
Aristotle
Atlantis Online forum
Atlantipedia
(Bible (Genesis 10, Ezekiel 38, Jonah))
Charles Berlitz Mystery of Atlantis & Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds.
Prof Blanco
BBC
(Book of Jasher (50:1-6))
(britam.org)
VS Bambrough headnheart.blogspot.com (defunct)
Sprague de C(h)amp & R Ley
(Ignatius Donnelly Atlantis Antediluvian World)
Ephorus
(Esarhaddon)
R Freund
Robert Graves White Goddess
(Google earth/maps)
Herodotus The Histories
(Herman Hoeh Compedium of History vol 2)
Hennig
Hermann
Justin (3rd cent historian)
Jessen
(Jewish Encyclopedia)
Simcha Jacobovici
Peter Kolosimo Timeless Earth
(Dr Kuhne)
JM Luzon
Ivar Lissner
Livy
(Sabatino Moscati World of the Phoenicians)
Nora Stone (Phoenician)
National Geographic
(James/Jim Nienhuis Genesis Veracity)
WA Oldfather (in American Journal of Philology)
Pausanias
Pliny
Pytheas
Plautus The Capitives
(David M Rohl on Italy/Spain)
Strabo
Schulten
Jurgen Spanuth Atlantis of the North
satellite
(Z Sitchin Lost Realms)
Tartessian/Turdetanian inscriptions
J Villarias-Robles
E Maria Wishaw
Wikipedia
(Zangger Flood from Heaven)
2011 surveys.

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