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Maps, Explorers & Adventurers => the Oceans => Topic started by: Serina on February 06, 2009, 10:47:47 pm



Title: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Serina on February 06, 2009, 10:47:47 pm
"Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Bruce Dorminey
for National Geographic News


February 6, 2009
The ancient flood that some scientists think gave rise to the Noah story may not have been quite so biblical in proportion, a new study says.

Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea, then a largely freshwater lake. That flood turned the lake into a rapidly rising sea. (See a map of the region.)

 A previous theory said the Black Sea rose up to 195 feet (60 meters), possibly burying villages and spawning the tale of Noah's flood and other inundation folklore.

(Related: "Noah's Flood" May Have Triggered European Farming" [November 20, 2007].)

But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters).

New Flood Evidence

Marine geologist Liviu Giosan and colleagues carbon-dated the shells of pristine mollusk fossils, which the researchers say bear no evidence of epic flooding.

Found in sediment samples taken from where the Black Sea meets the Danube River, the shells "weren't eroded, agitated, or moved," said Giosan, of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts. "We know the mud is exactly the same age as the shells and so can determine what the sea level was about 9,400 years ago."

The results suggest the Black Sea rose 15 to 30 feet (5 to 10 meters), rather than the 150 to 195 feet (50 to 60 meters) first suggested 13 years ago by Columbia University geologist William Ryan and colleagues. Ryan declined to be interviewed for this story.

Dueling Theories of Noah's Flood

In 1993 a Black Sea expedition found evidence of former shorelines and coastal dunes at depths of up to 390 feet (120 meters).

Researchers said these areas had been flooded when the Mediterranean and the Sea of Marmara—which lies between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea—breached a rocky barrier across the Bosporus, the Turkish strait that links the Maramara with the Black Sea.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090206-smaller-noah-flood.html?source=rss


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Serina on February 06, 2009, 10:50:31 pm
(http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/images/090206-smaller-noah-flood_big.jpg)

Some believe that Noah's Ark came to rest on Turkey's Mount Ararat, above.

But the ancient flood that some scientists think gave rise to the Noah story may not have been quite so biblical in proportion, a January 2009 study says.

Photograph by Melik Baghdasaryan/AP/Photolur


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Serina on February 06, 2009, 10:51:50 pm
Before such a flood, Ryan and colleagues said the flooded regions may have been rife with agricultural settlements. His research supports the notion that the flood submerged some 62,000 square miles (100,000 square kilometers), driving out farmers in droves, thereby supercharging the agricultural development of Europe, to the west.

However, Giosan's new study, which appears in the January issue of the journal Quaternary Science Reviews, indicates a less catastrophic influx, submerging only about 1,240 square miles (2,000 square kilometers).

That's because, according to the new study, the Black Sea's pre-flood water levels were significantly higher than Ryan's study suggested. As a result, there may have been much less water cascading through the Bosporus and onto the exposed continental shelf surrounding the Black Sea.

The ages of the shell fossils detailed in Giosan's report hint that the pre-flood sea surface was only 95 feet (30 meters) lower than it is today. Columbia's Ryan, by contrast, suggests the Black Sea's rise has been at least 150 feet (50 meters) since reconnecting with the Mediterranean some 9,400 years ago.

Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

Giosan's analysis points to a reconnection that was "quite mild," said Mark Siddall, an oceanographer at the University of Bristol in the U.K. who was not involved with the study.

"It looks like the connection may have involved an overspill from the Sea of Marmara of just a few meters," Siddall added.

Tony Brown, a paleo-environmentalist at the University of Southampton in the U.K., said he fully supports Giosan and colleagues' new findings.

"This seems to be a further nail in the coffin of the Ryan hypothesis," Brown said.

"I hope this will counter some recent catastrophist and misguided accounts of the spread of farming across Europe by what is likely a mythical flood."



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on February 07, 2009, 10:54:18 am
NOA or NOACH's Flood
 was an invasion of IRANIC settlers in Southern ARABY led by Sargon-1 of AGADE not in 2200 bc but: 1255 bc.
They were named the HYKSOS invaders and placed in the 15/16 and 17-th egyptian Dynasty
the Israelians were said to be their TEN tribe descendants.


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Robert0326 on February 07, 2009, 12:41:30 pm
The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Global Dominion on February 07, 2009, 04:11:28 pm
Archaeology and geology never have an answer, they make it as they go along, sometimes without even any new evidence.


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on February 10, 2009, 01:38:23 pm
The Black Sea breach,
the Explosion/ eruption of THERA the ( Second-)DEMISE iof Atlantis are all ONE EVENT.
Around 1.000 bc the MOON was so close to Earth that it crashed into it TWICE: in 1055 and 855 bc
even the Egyptian and Greek Myths mention this as eyewitnesses

NOA or NOACH Flood was only a Land settler's invasion from Iran
 into South- Araby led by SARGON-1 of AGGADESdd 1255 bc.( not 2220 bc!)

The MOON was called SETH or HAEPHAISTOS
who, only because of it's uglyness
was cast down to earth TWICE, first by HERA to spite Zeus and 200 years later by Zeus to spite Hera

Myth has it that the MOON or Hephaistos waslamed by thes TWO Moon-Falls andstill " LIMPS" (=" Liberation")

WHY is this not commonly known ? BECAUSE King Salmanasser-3 ordered a censorship ban on this information.

The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: LoneStar77 on March 10, 2009, 04:47:31 am
Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

Hello, Serina. Some interesting data. All of the scientific findings you mention may place another nail in the original "Black Sea" hypothesis, but not necessarily in the "Noah's Flood" myth.

Trouble in Genesis
If there is any truth at all in the story of Noah's Flood, scientists may be looking in the wrong era. Much of Genesis seems to be symbolic and cannot be taken literally without logical conflict. If we give the writers of Genesis the benefit of the doubt and assume that there is something valuable and valid here, the timeline given for humanity and the universe is the first I would question. There are too many elements from science that show the universe to be far more than 6000 years old.

For instance, why would God give us the aftermath of the collision of two galaxies when the collision never occurred? If one believes a literal interpretation of Genesis, then "The Mice" galaxies could never have collided, but the apparent evidence of a collision several hundred million years ago is quite evident.

A New Timeline
Now, about Noah's Flood. In 2002, while researching a novel project, I made several biblical discoveries. The devout Christian and clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce had given us two dates for events in Genesis -- 28,000 BC for the Flood, and 10.5 million years ago for Adam. For years, my notes on this lay dormant because they sounded ludicrous, especially the date for Adam. While working on my novel, I ran across my notes and wondered if there could be something to those dates. After a few months' research, I discovered a simple and elegant code in Genesis that gives us Cayce's dates to within 1% of his rounded approximations.

If someone believes neither Cayce nor Genesis, then the argument is entirely moot. But if we suspend any disbelief and investigate the possibilities, it might yield more interesting information.

A Possible Reason for the Flood
In Genesis 6, right before Noah is tapped on the shoulder by God to build the ark, we learn about "men having daughters." That is strange wording, to be sure. Didn't they also have "sons?" Then it talks about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of men" and finding them fair, had children with them. Why is this part of the Flood story? Could it be that herein lays the reason for the Flood?

Who were the "sons of God" and "daughters of men?" There may be clues earlier in Genesis about the "sons." Genesis 1:26 states that God created man in his own image. Yet, a chapter later, God created man from the dust of the ground. Now wait a minute. The image of God would hardly be one of dust. What does this mean? My interpretation is that God is a non-physical, spiritual source of creation. That would make us non-physical, spiritual sources of creation.

As a scientist, perhaps I shouldn't be talking of such things, but my own experience compels me to accept talk of creation and spirit. I know that I am not this physical body called "Carl Martin." A non-traumatic event viewing the world without human eyes allows me to state that. Having created miracles (one of them comparable to Moses parting the sea), I know that there must be something to Genesis 1:26.

The "dust" part may be simply the physical form, Homo sapiens. So man has a dual nature, immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. This dual nature is an important element in many of the world's religions.

So what were the "daughters of men?" Apparently they were not Homo sapiens! What if they were a species that looked like men? Then their children with the "sons" would have been hybrids -- half human and half something else.

What would this have to do with the Flood? One has to ask, what was the purpose of the Flood? Genesis doesn't tell us much -- only that it had to do with some kind of wickedness. But what could have been more wicked than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and other genocidal maniacs of the past few thousand years? What would require a worldwide flood that all the evil in the recorded history of humanity would not have required?

The Reason for Homo sapiens
Perhaps we have to step back a bit and ask a deeper question. What was the purpose of Homo sapiens? Why did God create Homo sapiens?

If the immortal spirit that is man fell from grace, then Homo sapiens may have been created to help restore those immortals -- to reawaken them. What sets Homo sapiens apart is our ability for intelligent speech. If another species (and their hybrid offspring) did not have that ability, then civilization may not have been possible. Why would civilization have been necessary? Hunter-gatherers have precious little time for anything other than subsistence activities. Writing, philosophy and religious discussions would be next to impossible. Civilization would give Homo sapiens the freedom and relatively safety to discuss reawakening -- to have their "day of rest."

If all of this is merely a pleasant fiction, I hope you've been entertained. What is interesting, though, is that Cayce's date (and the new Genesis timeline) for Noah's Flood coincides with one event from science. This is the disappearance of Homo neanderthalensis (Neanderthal man) -- an extremely man-like species that some scientists have speculated may have mated with Homo sapiens.

If my elaborate tale is true, then scientists need to be looking at 28,000 BCE for clues to Noah's Flood.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.GenesisCode.Net (http://www.GenesisCode.Net)
www.MissionAtlantis.Com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.Com)
www.CarlMartin.Net (http://www.CarlMartin.Net)



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 08:18:35 am
Archaeology and geology never have an answer, they make it as they go along, sometimes without even any new evidence.

Indeed, you are very right,
One who has read the Geology-catastrophism books of dr Velikovsky
could come to the same conclusions The Timeline of GEOLOGY is off

When Dr Velikovsky told this to the grand public
in 1949 he was demonised for upsetting the " Apple-Cart "

For lack of time I'll only demonstrate one example:

The " Quarternary LAKE BURST" IS SAID TO HAVE OCCURED IN 8.000 BC
but according to the geologist Dr. Velikovsky it was nearer the 800 bc.mark

Sincerely " BlueHue  " dd 10 March 2009


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 08:33:50 am
The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?

I think that you are the same Person as mr WIND
under a different Pseudonym,

The Story of NOACH( in the Catholic version )
entails an INVASION of homesettlers from Iran
from the Karakorum Valley in the Indian Hindu-Kush

NOACH
is a shortened  version name for an adventurer King called in history" Sargon-1"
his band of HYKSOS" foreigen shephard Kings " went to South Araby and made war there
later on the Babylonians regarded " NOACH" Siusiztru or whatever as an enemy fore barer

The Israelians were those Hyksos
so in their stay in Babylon they were not likely to tell the thruth about their ancient enmities
instead EZDRAS manipulated the Persian records he found in Persepolis to give the Israelian/ jewish/ Hyksos
 a more friendly nature by changing the Human invasion into a Biblical Flood .

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10  March 2009.



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 08:47:50 am

Dear............SERINA,

GEOLOGY is not all what it purports to be

The RULE of THUMB for
Global Floods is the following:
,

From 10.000 untill 855 bc mean Sea-Leverl rise was 100 meters

From 855 until 755 bc the Sealevel rose a staggering 50 meters

Now you may not know that the Bosphorus-outlet bottom is only 20 meters deep
the Russians have tried to have it deepened out for warships, but were not allowed to

This means that until 855 bc
the Level of the Blacksea was 50 meters lower
This also means that if at that time the Mediaterranean Level
were the samed than there was no waterflow

But If the watertable of the Mediterranean Sea went up faster
than of the Black Sea there would be a cascade from South-West Tto the North-East

This ( generic-)rule of THUMB for Sea-Levelrise
is disregarded by every amateur Geologist confusing the issue !

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009


Before such a flood, Ryan and colleagues said the flooded regions may have been rife with agricultural settlements.the journal Quaternary Science Reviews, indicates a less catastrophic influx, submerging only about 1,240 square miles

the pre-flood water levels were significantly higher than Ryan's study suggested. there may have been much less water cascading through the Bosporus and onto the exposed continental shelf

The ages of the shell fossils detailed in Giosan's report hint that the pre-flood sea surface was only 95 feet (30 meters) lower than it is today. Columbia's Ryan, by contrast, suggests the Black Sea's rise has been at least 150 feet (50 meters) since reconnecting with the Mediterranean some 9,400 years ago.


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 09:25:52 am
DEAR ..................Mr LONESTAR, ....and QOAIS( who is eaves-dropping )


ca.1055 bc.Occured the EXODUS of MOZES was compiled into the TORA Chapter one " GENESIS "
( meaning freely translated:" About -the -KINGS- of -CANAAN ".)

in the Bible reads like an -unusual- detective Story of Sherlock Holmes.

In case that You did not Know:
The Bible/Tora is a compilation from an Egyptian  chancellery-State record
Similar stories were abound but not included in full, Koran is an addendum to the Tora.

So how You think to find a regular/-elegant- " CODE " in an incompleted doctered Manuscript is a mystery!

EZDRAS found his " Copy" of the Bible /
TANAKAH /TORA, in the egyptian archives at Persepolis whence it was placed by Darius-1
in 444 bc but it took him aparently 40 years to copy it and read it aloud inthe Templesquare of Jerusalem(= KADESH!)

He must have been amazed that the Israelians and Jews were actually originating from the same area
that King Nebukadnesar banished the Egyptian jews to:in 1055 bc 500 years prior to, 589 bc  from the indian Sub-continent./ Irak.
 

MOZES and AAHRON
were two egyptian rival Kings ( Vice-Roys-)of " Atlantis "( egyptian PUA or AAU(= Aii.)
( or: " SIN-Aii "today Slutanate of:" SEiiR ".)
which was a vassal-Kingdom of Egypt on the Arabian Continent.)

BUT in the context of the " ANABASIS =- JUDAIICA "
the priestly urge to go back from the babylonian exile to the original Israel
was twarted because the Jews did not want to become " Paradise-Farmers " again

Was GENESIS a pious Priestly-forgery ?
EZDRAS had to change the Babylonian enemy called Generalissimus-MOZES,
into the gentlemen called " MOZES the Lawgiver and thus Forged
for of political benevolence, the history of his own people to satisfy the Persian Censors !!!

The Reason for the Biblical Flood
In Greek version of the Deluge of DEUKALION, was the HYBRIS of Atlantis
which had conquerred the " European " continent save egypt and part of Italy( Tuscany.)
Thus the ( invasion-)" Flood "of NOACH was too early to be equated with the biblical flood.

Cause of Deukalion Flood
by cosmic movements of Earth's satelite
In the egyptian Texts it is GOD RE who sent his EYE(= the MOON Maatre) or Athargatis/ Ishtar

to punish Mankind with Fire( or RED-desert Dust storms, and spilled over Mountain-Lake-waters
In the Greek Text it is the STORM-God " ZEUS " that sent his messenger Hermes to quenche Earth.
In the HEBREW-version it is the Fire/ Apocalypse Angel called AZRAEL that had set Earth(= Araby!) in a fiercy glow.

In a Greek version
The Son of HELIOS ( called the Night- Sun or Moon" PHAETHON ")
which did dammage to Earth (= Araby.)and even Fell to and on Earth( " Po- River or Eridanus.)
Freely translated Phaethon means: The " Angel -that- Fell- to- Earth "

As a seasoned Forum Member,

I couldn't help noticing that most other theorist-members
are no experts on Greek Mythology, which is why they take it for granted.
ignoring that 'Atlantis' is a Fake name for the greek original ATHE( today ADEN.)

Reference-points to" Find " Atlantis: ???
I mannaged to shorten- down the usual 50 reference POINTS
hiding  the random gnorance of the mainstream amateur Historians, to
only THREE " BlueHue's RULE of THUMB " to locate the ' original ' Atlantis.

By this time most readers get bored reading my" Speculative-theory "and drop their intrest.
They continue to happily "  Bark-up the wrong tree".
None of the Forummembers read my Discovery -Caption (at this Post-Bottom )seriously.

Sincerely " BlueHue  " dd 10 March 2009


Nail in Noah's-Flood Coffin?

A New Timeline
Now, about Noah's Flood.events in Genesis -- 28,000 BC for the Flood, and 10.5 million years ago for Adam. A Possible Reason for the Flood
Who were the "sons of God" and "daughters of men?" What would this have to do with the Flood? One has to ask, what was the purpose of the Flood? Genesis doesn't tell us much -- only that it had to do with some kind of wickedness.  looking at 28,000 BCE for clues to Noah's Flood.
LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.GenesisCode.Net (http://www.GenesisCode.Net)
www.MissionAtlantis.Com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.Com)
www.CarlMartin.Net (http://www.CarlMartin.Net)


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Qoais on March 10, 2009, 10:04:42 am
Hi Lonestar
Quote
That is strange wording, to be sure. Didn't they also have "sons?" Then it talks about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of men" and finding them fair, had children with them. Why is this part of the Flood story? Could it be that herein lays the reason for the Flood?

I would assume that "they" had sons as well as daughters, but I don't suppose the "sons of God" could breed with the sons of man and get a result could they?  It seems Genesis is trying to say how "we" came about.  Were not the "created beings" of a dual sexual nature, having both sexes within or no sex distinguishing factors at all?  Therefore, perhaps Genesis is trying to explain that the road back to their previous spiritual existance had to be through a reproduction process, as one life-time was not sufficient.  I believe Edgar Cayce explained this.  It seems that the celestial beings that did not get trapped in this plane, wanted to help those who did and devised this method of breeding and re-incarnation as a means for the trapped souls to work their way back to their original spiritual existence. 

Personally - I believe that people give "God" too many human attributes.  I mean, here's someone that not only can create beings, "he" creates universes and everything in them with a precision that is so exact it can't be measured.  Then we're supposed to believe that this omniscient being would be petty enough to "send a flood" upon the very creatures he created because they were being little brats.
Nope.  I don't think so.  He created the world, and the universe, and as the poem says, I'm sure the universe is unfolding as it should, just the way it was meant to.  Floods are part of the creation.  HE doesn't stand there and monitor every little event that happens in every corner of the universe.  It's all on automatic pilot already.  Genesis is merely some poor ignorant trying to grapple with something he didn't understand and did the best he could in telling the story. 

Who told the people they were "bad" and that "god' was sending a flood to punish them?  Not God - the creator of all.  He created all equal and loves them all equally - supposedly.  Again - applying human attributes to God.  God would not play favorites - he would not pick just a few and say I love these best and shall destroy all the rest.  No more than most parents could pick a favorite child, and kill the others.  God does not un-create - in other words, destroy that which he has created. 



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Bianca on March 10, 2009, 10:22:08 am







I NEVER heard it so well-put, Q!


Thank you!!!


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 10:44:11 am
Dear ..................QOAIS .... and......' LONE-RANGER,'


Biblical Creation MYTH: ( is of -Deukalion-   ;D )


in the TIME
DEUKALION was the biblical Flood
( in my view dd. 1055 bc.Other versions: 2.000 bc etc.)
The SONs of GOD were the Kanakes or IGIGGI(= Dragon/Elephant-Riders.)
The " Daughters of MEN " would be the ( enemy-)Assyrians.

CENSORSHIPs were to blame for the omittance of People and(correct-) Placenames
In Gilgamesh Epos the original Egyptian Names were Translated into Aramic ,
Like in the Atlantis-Satire the Egyptian Names were translated into greek ones.

" GOD " in that Time was the MOON
the AVATAR of " GOD " was the Arabian Elephant


The Term " Sons -of " GOD  "

is NEOPHILLIM in Raphiddim, GOG & Magog GADJAN GHAD HATTI etc means
SON of the SEA an Epithaph for the SERA- Horse or HIPPO-CAMPOS the( Flying-)Elephant !
Thus means " Elephant- Men " or the worshippers ofthe Elephant as a GOD
The Greek word for the Arabian Elephant is: "  Elephas Maximus Assyrus "

PHILLUSTINES and ELEPHANT
are Punician words. EL- GOD PHILL is a derivate of PHUNT/ Punt/ Butho Etc.

They are the same word: they both mean " Elephant or:
" GOD "(= El-) of  PUNT "

In HINDI it reads: HASTINA-PURA and PULASTIYA= Elephant City

" ARABIA - FoELIX "   means " WHITE - Holi- Elephant- COUNTRY "
PHIL or PHULBE means " ELEPHANT in Arabic & Persian.

CONCLUSION:

Greeks and Hebrews had a common origin in South- ARABY:
The Israelians in the Bible-Flood story
were originally a brance of PUNICIANS(= proto-Greeks !)
living in the" original " Punicia( = today " YEMEN ".)

The " SONS of GOD " were Elephant worshippers
POSEIDON was a Sea-Horse-(= Elephant-)GOD
His" Sea-Horses" {= Hippocampii-)or Elephants( called HATI-)
caused Earth-Quakes. to be pre-warned for
 by long training in then Earth-Quake/ Tornado Country(= Yemen.)

" GOD  " was: Salmanasser-3, who ' demonised ' Posedon as an Elephant -God
and replaced him with ARES( later called MARS.)in 855 bc.
THAT is WHY the NAME" Elephant " ELOHIM replaced by JAHWEH, of the " GOD "  in the Bible.

I mentioned this before: Read my Subscript( Bottom of Posting !)
but apparently it hasn't sunken in yet @!

Also read my  # 3 RULES of THUMB for locating the " Original " Atlantis ^ Above THIS POST ^

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 10 March 2009


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 10, 2009, 11:25:36 am
Hi Lonestar
Quote
That is strange wording, to be sure. Didn't they also have "sons?" Then it talks about the "sons of God" finding the "daughters of men" and finding them fair, had children with them. Why is this part of the Flood story? Could it be that herein lays the reason for the Flood?


Dear ...................... QOAIS...............and .........'LONE-RANGER,'  
 

I apologize for beiing a SpoilSport: BUT, Your Questions are very NAiiV, but worth answering

Amongst Teological litterature researchers
it is common practise to regard the Bible-story as symbolical/allegoric

The REAL Bible Story is all about Hegemony Battles
between the Israelians ( originally a split-off Brance
of the original Punicians in South- Araby.)

and the  agressive Assyrian host acting at the borderlimits,
between Israel & Assur-halfway across " Arabia - FoELIX "

( When " Israel" under Egyptian Hegemony extended till the Euphrates !)
Thus Egypt and Israel were longstanding if involuntary-enemies-of ASSUR & BABYLON.

When EZDRAS was asked to RE- WRITE the ancient BIBLE / TORA
which had been Stolen and Stored in Persepolis by King DARIUS-1 in Ca.500 bc

It is obvious that the BATTLES against ASSUR  & BABYLON
which were described in there were censored taboed !
by the Persian CENSORS. WHY ? just because !

So ESDRAS
 had to turn battle drama's into religious Sap-Stories to get " Our " Bible
past the Persian and MEDES(=ex-)" Babylonian" censors and Gates of Persepolis !

This means that EDRAS had to make amens so to make it it appear that
MOZES was an Egyptian Fugitive Lawgiver
fleeing to Babylon, masking the fact that  instead of the REAL
MOZES who was an Egyptian Generalissimus  poised to conquer
and kill every Babylonian in Araby in Sight ! You see the Problem ?

Alas
Dear old Alexander the Great
found it neccesary to burn the Place down in 331 bc.
so we ignore the extend and precise wording
of the original Bible texts from the egyptian original !

We do have Second or Third-Hand " Copies "of the Bible of  King JOSIAH( dd 610 bc.)
but they were casually-copied by the likes of Herodotus
before the Library of Alexandria went aflame by dear old CAESAR in 47 bc.


CONCLUSION:

" The TEXTUS- Receptus "  of,
Both the ( Hebrew-)Bible and Plato's ( HYBRIS-)Atlantis Story
have, over time been subjected to text-destroying censorships


They couldn't be taken at face value

neither could any Biography of the great-Prophet Mohammed
( Because he was originally a Bysantine-General with a different name !
and under that name considdered an enemy of the Arabian islamists !)
BUT, that's a different Story !

Sincerely " BlueHue " ( Remember to comment on my SubScript( Bottom Posting !)


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: LoneStar77 on March 11, 2009, 03:36:30 am
It seems that the celestial beings that did not get trapped in this plane, wanted to help those who did and devised this method of breeding and re-incarnation as a means for the trapped souls to work their way back to their original spiritual existence.... I believe that people give "God" too many human attributes.... Then we're supposed to believe that this omniscient being would be petty enough to "send a flood" upon the very creatures he created because they were being little brats.... ...the universe is unfolding as it should, just the way it was meant to.... HE doesn't stand there and monitor every little event that happens in every corner of the universe.  It's all on automatic pilot already.  Genesis is merely some poor ignorant trying to grapple with something he didn't understand and did the best he could in telling the story.... God would not play favorites - he would not pick just a few and say I love these best and shall destroy all the rest.


Dear Qoais,

I agree with Bianca, well put. You make several very good points, and I agree with nearly everything you said. One part I disagree with is your misinterpretation of my intent. I tried to compress a book into a posting and I realize I left a lot out.

The Flood may have been a true story, and then again it may not have been. "God," or whatever agency, likely did not send a flood "because they were being little brats," as you suggest. The real reason, by my hypothesis, would have been to prevent Neanderthal from jeopardizing the spiritual reawakening. It was not a punishment, but a rescue mission.

The Bible so often characterizes the agency of "God" as vindictive and vengeful, but this is likely a semantic red herring. When it says in Malachi that God "loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated," this wasn't about the human emotion "hate," but rather a consequence of Esau's prior actions (karma and reincarnation). One might just as easily say that "God hates the man" who foolishly steps off of a three-story roof. The agency of "God's anger" is gravity and force of impact. There is no human "hate" involved.

There are so many sides to this "God" character. The group of "celestial beings" you mentioned (baby gods?) came to our rescue. When Yehoshua of Nazareth said "I and my father are one," too many Christians misinterpret this to mean that he was God. No, he was merely our brother come to help us get out of the trap. He was one of the celestial beings you mentioned. When I experienced my greatest miracle, I felt every bit that I and my father were one. That doesn't make me God, either. Yet, for a moment, I felt myself an agent of some higher power we might call God, or "universal consciousness."

Breeding and reincarnation are important aspects of our path to spiritual reawakening. I wholeheartedly agree. And I agree that people give "God" too many human attributes. I suspect that any place in the Bible where God is being rowdy, there is some other meaning involved. For instance, why would God make the children pay for the sins of their fathers? Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in the common interpretation of the passages that mention this greatly misunderstood idea. Sins of the fathers are about reincarnation and karma. Only the perpetrator pays for their crimes, not the innocent children. But it frequently takes more than one lifetime for the payment to come due (God is "slow to anger"). Again, this isn't some Zeus character sitting on a cloud throwing lightning bolts. This is natural law of the universe.

As for things like the Flood, I would suspect we had help from the celestial guardians or whatever one might want to call them -- our brother and sister immortals.

You say that the universe is unfolding as it should. I love your reference to the poem, "Desiderata." I've discovered a few things about the mechanics of creation and what you said on this point hits the nail on the head. Creation as we usually think of it takes place in two steps. One is the idea or template. The other is best described as "allowing." A creator first gets the picture of the desired end result. This does not manifest in the physical universe, because such a creation is without the dimension known as time or persistence. "Allowing" the creation gives it that dimension in the time stream. Genesis 1 is about the first step. Genesis 2 (God's "day of rest") is about the second step. In fact, one might say we are still living in God's "day of rest" -- the last 15-20 billion years of it. So, yes! I agree. The universe is on automatic pilot -- allowed to run off on its own as if it were "creating itself."

When the great teacher, Yehoshua, said that knowing the truth would set you free, he was referring to this aspect of the mechanics of creation. You view the truth of a problem, and you take the time dimension out of it. You return the creation to its moment of inception -- the instantaneity of its creation. That "moment" is not in the past, but is perhaps best thought of as perpendicular to the time stream. It is in the discontinuous realm described by the Buddhists as "paramita" -- "the other shore."

The nature of our trap here is the continuity-based creations such as the dichotomies, good-evil, victim-perpetrator, generous-selfish, compassionate-indifferent, and many others. These are the forbidden fruit that allowed us to "feel" guilt and other mortal degradations. With humble confidence we can rise above these.

I take issue with your portrayal of the writer of Genesis as "some poor ignorant." You may be found to be right, when all the answers are in. I don't know. However, I suspect that there is a lot more wisdom in Genesis that most give it credit for (biblical literalists included).

I agree that the "celestial guardians" would not pick and choose who to love. Immortal spirit, however, cannot be destroyed.

Perhaps too much emphasis is put on the materialistic -- the physical bodies. One might step on an ant and think nothing of it. One might take medicine to cure a disease, but in the process kill millions of bacteria. Killing the bodies to resurrect the spirit is a no brainer if the value is put solely in the sleeping immortal.

Suicide is perhaps the most selfish act one can do. It is pure victim. Yet sacrificing one's life for one's friends is considered sacred. What's the difference? When we can answer that, we will understand the true value of life and the purpose of our existence in this physical plane. I talk more about this in my blog on "Humble Confidence" (http://blog.ancientsuns.com/?p=3 (http://blog.ancientsuns.com/?p=3)).

How does all this relate to Noah's Flood? I think it has to do with an ongoing rescue mission -- one that has lasted for more than 10.5 million years. When Yehoshua beat the money changers in the temple, he was doing the same thing that "God," or whatever, did with the Flood. The goal is reawakening. Anything that stands in the way of that reawakening is "wicked." When, as a child, I first learned that the usually loving, "turn-the-other-cheek" "savior" had gotten so rowdy in the temple, I was shocked. Now, I think I understand. But I know for a certainty that I have a long way to go. And your dialog helps.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.GenesisCode.Net (http://www.GenesisCode.Net)
www.MissionAtlantis.Com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.Com)
www.CarlMartin.Net (http://www.CarlMartin.Net)


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Qoais on March 11, 2009, 10:55:16 am
Thank you for the kind words.

Lonestar, don't take exception to what I say, other than to disagree if that is your opinion.  I'm not judging what you've said, that's for sure.  I'm not sure I even realized you HAD an intent!!!

Now, I think you've studied much and have come to some conclusions.  That seems to be coming through in your posts.  A bit of Sitchin maybe and possibly some other fringe writers?  No problem in my opinion.  I think they have contributed a lot towards getting people up and off the couch and into the research of things they didn't previously even think about.  You seem to have had a wonderful experience of some sort, possibly more than one, that has moved you, and you want to somehow share this experience but in trying to do so, you're finding you're learning more and more all the time.  That's marvelous.

Ok - now we're to the part where you say it's possible that the flood came to prevent Neanderthal from jeopardizing the spiritual reawakening.  What you're basically referring to here is gene manipulation.  No Neanderthals allowed in the breeding program.  Now to split hairs, I would agree with you that "God" did not set up such a program.  It's possible some of our "brothers" and "sisters" did, but who are these brothers and sisters?  This has been my question for a very long time.  If they were in the spiritual realm, how did they manifest on this plane to institute their experiment?  They must have been powerful beings, but still, they had to be physically real to be able to breed which previously, they had been incapable of.  Therefore, it would make sense they had to USE neanderthal because Neanderthal was already breeding.  Once they got the hang of it though, they probably did selective breeding for whatever purpose was a priority at the time.  One cannot just sit around being spiritual in a physical body.  The physical body has needs.  These requirements must be met - to do that - one needs to breed a physique that can handle hard work and face killer animals.  Ok - then we need physiques that have endurance, and speed, and then ................... and on it goes.  We still have not reached the point where man can work very little and meditate a lot.  Some people are fortunate enough for that, but most of us are not.  The plan is in place, but we haven't all followed it.  I imagine the whole world would be more spiritually advanced if we all lived like the Tibetan Lamas.  So - what Cayce is saying - is that the path has been created - walk on it who will.  

Ok, let's say some illustrious beings, Jesus being one of them, came up with this plan as Edgar Cayce says they did.   They would still be operating under the directives God set down, and would not be allowed to harm the creatures God created nor would they WANT to.  Not even Lucifer has been judged yet for what HE did, why would they condemn the poor old neanderthal who hadn't harmed anyone?

I have no doubt the flood is a true story.  But WHAT was the story?  Was it just a local flood as some say?  Was it a particularly wet year, with some global warming at the time and waters rising way above normal?  Did they write about it because it was so terrifying and some leader told them this was a punishment?  Floods are not punishments sent by God.  They're a normal weather cycle.  They didn't know that perhaps so whoever was leading them, could use it as a threat.  But there again, not God's way.  We were put here with free will.  God does not "threaten" us that we have to love him or else!!!  Or else what?  He's going to send a flood?  Not.  That's what I meant about some poor ignorant trying to relate something he didn't understand.  I didn't mean the person was stupid.  Not at all.  It wasn't like the writer of Genesis was actually present himself during this epic.  Not if we have our time lines right. ::)

Noah's flood may have been the "cause" of a rescue mission also.  What other "man with daughters" was there on earth way back then for the sons of God to breed with?  They would have been busy saving their breeding stock from the flood - whoever THEY were.

Quote
The nature of our trap here is the continuity-based creations such as the dichotomies, good-evil, victim-perpetrator, generous-selfish, compassionate-indifferent, and many others.

Goes without saying - since there is only "good" on the other side, nay?   



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Qoais on March 11, 2009, 08:45:59 pm
Quote
Suicide is perhaps the most selfish act one can do. It is pure victim. Yet sacrificing one's life for one's friends is considered sacred. What's the difference? When we can answer that, we will understand the true value of life and the purpose of our existence in this physical plane.

Probably not the thread for this, but I would have to disagree with that statement.  I know I was TAUGHT that - to think that suicide is selfish - but after I'd gotten a little bit of life under my belt, I have to disagree.  Always remember that we have free will.  God did not put us here to suffer.  God did not create us to suffer unnecessarily.  If you were in terrbile  pain with  brain cancer and were screaming from within the depths of your agony for someone to give you that final needle, I would not call you a coward.  Nor would I call you selfish.  I would call myself selfish if I did not do as you asked.  Beyond selfish - cruel.

If you were a young lad, trained up from babyhood to believe so strongly in your God that you would become a suicide bomber for his sake, I would not call you selfish.  A victim yes, but of others who destroyed your innocense and taught you wrong for their own sakes and selfish greed.

What is the value of life?  To the warlords, and the drug lords - life has no value.  They live for the excitement of the moment - a few years of wealth to buy all the material things they could ever want, and then it's their turn - the other top dog takes him out.  What was the value of his life?  Did anyone learn anything from it?  What value is life to the scum bags in the Phillipines who run the government and say prostitution is illegal, and yet run the brothels?  Those girls never see the light of day.  Do you think they have such a wonderful life they shouldn't commit suicide if given the chance?  They've already been put under a death sentence with being forced to have sex with no protection - they are already dying a slow death.  I would not call them them cowards if they chose to end it sooner.

Should be a different thread for this I guess.


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: LoneStar77 on March 12, 2009, 10:17:52 am
...It's possible some of our "brothers" and "sisters" did, but who are these brothers and sisters?  This has been my question for a very long time.  If they were in the spiritual realm, how did they manifest on this plane to institute their experiment?  They must have been powerful beings, but still, they had to be physically real to be able to breed which previously, they had been incapable of.  Therefore, it would make sense they had to USE neanderthal because Neanderthal was already breeding....

...We were put here with free will.  God does not "threaten" us that we have to love him or else!!!  Or else what?  He's going to send a flood?  Not....  ...It wasn't like the writer of Genesis was actually present himself during this epic....

Good stuff, Q.

You've helped me see where my dissertation can create misunderstandings. My ideas are strange enough that, where they collide with someone else's experience, new meanings sometimes arise that I didn't anticipate.

I'll touch on only a few points you made.

You say the "brothers" and "sisters" must have been powerful beings. I'd agree with you there. If we are all basically spiritual beings made in God's image, then we are all basically powerful beings capable of creating universes, or manipulating elements of this one -- moving mountains, parting seas, or walking on water. Marco Polo said he saw a Tibetan Buddhist monk fly. I don't doubt it for a moment.

You also stated that "they had to USE Neanderthal because Neanderthal was already breeding." Part of the discovery I made in Genesis (based on Cayce's two dates -- 28,000 BC for the Flood, and 10.5 million years ago for Adam), I found a simple formula in Genesis that yields a date of 10,454,130 BC (less than 1% from Cayce's rounded approximation). If Homo sapiens is 10.5 million years old, then Neanderthal (at only a few hundred thousand years in age) could not have been used in the genetic manipulation that led to the creation of Homo sapiens.

I agree that we were put here with free will. That is implied in my statement that God's "day of rest" is the last 15-20 billion years. But again, you seem to miss my earlier point. The Flood, if my hypothesis is correct, was not a threat or a punishment. Perhaps all bodies are expendable despite our sentimental attachment to them. The only real people are the sleeping immortals and their brothers and sisters who are already awake.

And if we (on Earth) are all sleeping immortals, perhaps the writer of Genesis was there at the Flood. Weren't you? I personally don't remember any of it, but I do have a few memories almost that old. At least they feel like memories, full of emotion I could not explain otherwise. The scientist in me is at least open to that possibility.

To counter the impression that this discussion has drifted far off topic, let me say that there is a possible connection between the Flood and Atlantis, besides the date given by Cayce (28,000 BC for both the Flood and the second upheaval in Atlantis).

If the purpose of the Flood was as part of a rescue mission, to get Earth back on purpose -- moving toward the reawakening of the sleeping immortals (us), then Atlantis may have suffered its demise because, like Neanderthal, its existence may have jeopardized that reawakening.

A baby god (celestial being / spiritual brother or sister) with infinite power, but also selfishness is likely going to get into trouble. Maybe that was part of the great fall from grace. Selfishness is not conducive to that spiritual reawakening. In fact, the very nature of selfishness is one of separateness and arrogance. If Atlantis had persisted, then it might very well have conquered Earth. In the social vacuum at the end of the Ice Age, it might eventually have accomplished that aim. A planet Earth under one selfish empire would not have created a healthy environment for spiritual awakening. A democracy is much more conducive to this. Our form of government in the Western cultures is not perfect, but it tends to encourage a certain degree of humility. Atlantis had lost its humility. Like Neanderthal, Atlantis had to go. Perhaps the same brothers and sisters that helped bring the Flood helped nudge Atlantis into its oblivion.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
www.MissionAtlantis.Com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.Com)
www.CarlMartin.Net (http://www.CarlMartin.Net)



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Qoais on March 12, 2009, 11:18:45 am
Perhaps the writer of Genesis, like yourself, had a few flashbacks, but couldn't remember the whole event ??? 8)  Too bad, it would be nice to know what it was all about.

The powerful brothers and sisters - seems they could create just about anything they put their mind to, but they could not reproduce.  Sorry if I mixed up Neanderthal and Homo whatever.  Those words don't make pictures for me so I tend not to remember which was which.  I just meant whatever "man" was on earth when the siblings decided to make their plan.

Was the flood manipulated by the powerful siblings/overseers?  Possibly.  Perhaps their experiments got out of control and they were purging the results.  Maybe it's true that they kept just a few certain breeding stock and wiped out the rest.  Maybe they took eggs and sperm and kept them safe somewhere and did the in-vitro thing.  Not that the commoner would ever have been told that this is what had happened.  Not like they left any evidence of what they were doing.  Again, I wish they would have, then we'd know for sure.(That's why I like Sitchin's take on all this.  It's so logical - even if he made it up!!)

According to Cayce, the Atlanteans themselves caused the destruction of their homeland by deliberately ignoring warnings that their experiments with their power source were too dangerous.  Talk about ignorant!!  Talk about selfish!!  Even then, there were those that did remember that they were once spiritual beings but chose not to walk the path that had been created for them, in order for them to return to their spiritual existence.  At that time, they still had a lot of knowledge of the universe.  They lost their spiritual abilities, not their knowledge.

Again probably not the place to get into a deep discussion, but have you read the Urantia Book?  People make a big deal of it because it was supposedly channelled and therefore not factual or trustworthy.  I don't think it matters who wrote it.  We could say some guys called Mathew, Mark, Luke and John wrote it, and people would suck it up.  Point is - the words have been said and what they say gives rise to a lot of food for thought.  You're of a scientific bent, so you can separate the wheat from the chaff. 



Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 13, 2009, 06:02:22 am
Indeed I would also say that the UFO CAYCE Subject,
Chrystal Clear: Talking about Noach's Flood with God's Wrath
and celestial beiings, reeks of Zacharia Sitchin !

These postings belong to the Atlanis NEW - AGE Topic,
not to the Atlantis Scientific Topic unless one regards Philosophy as" Scientific !


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 13, 2009, 06:10:31 am
DEAR .. . . . . .mr. " LONESTAR  "

" CONTACT  INPUT  FORM ?"

Don't you think that your Postings are in the Wrong TOPIC ? ???
They belong to the TOPIC of " Atlantis- in -the -New -AGE." ::)

As an ancient historyresearcher,
I told you that " GOD " was a GLOSS from an interloper called Salmanasser-3
a GOD- King of Assur, Who entered himself into the Tora/ Bible as the GOD of Paradise( dd.GENESIS 3 verse 14-15.)

CELESTIAL beiings or Gardians were the " Watchmen on the Walls of Zion" called Cherubs or Grigorii

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 13 march 2009

the spiritual realm, to USE neanderthal because Neanderthal was already breeding....

...

Good stuff, Q.

You've helped me see where my dissertation can create misunderstandings. My ideas are strange enough that, where they collide with someone else's experience, new meanings sometimes arise that I didn't anticipate.

ttp://www.CarlMartin.Net]www.CarlMartin.Net[/url][/quote]


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" a flood of violent immigrants censored into a" Flood " likely
Post by: BlueHue on March 18, 2009, 03:08:05 pm
Dear................................QOAIS,


CAYCE is a good diagnostician but a bad Atlantic-Soothsayer I call him a gullible society-Fraud

Dr G.LITTLE scuba dive- Family are much like ' GEORGEOS '
they try to find " Atlantis " where it never was .
are they Hoaxers too ? AMERICA or SPAIN is it a HOAX or not ?

The DUAL Tsunami that overtook Atlantis ( in: 1055 and 855 bc.
were caused by MOON- Collisions from the opposite end of the Globe( pushing-up the Himalay Mnts.)

Have you actually grabbed/ READ or Missed Out on my
# 3 RULES of THUMB to Locate the " Original " Atlantis ?


1:.....ATLANTIS is a Latin- Faked name
the Original GREEK read ' ATHE '(= today ADEN/ Ras ADAN in Yemen/South Araby.)


2:.....Atlantic OCEAN is a Latin - Faked name
the original GREEK word was a Composite- word of Two waterbodies surrounding the KNOWN- World(= today ARABY.)
Atlantic- SEA of ATLAS(= supposedly in Morocco.)
and the ( Middle-)Earth Surrounding or KNOWN- World- OCEAN.( today the RED- Sea surrounding ARABY(= " The Known World " .)


3:.....  PLATO's Atlantis Data have been exagerated by TEN
NOT because of misreading the egyptian numerals( eg -KHET-)but by misreading the GREEK numeral for 1.000(=" X ".)
which was confused with the Latin Numeral or Sign for" Multiply - by- TEN "(= " x  ".)


For a merely 800 measily posts I tried to convince the Forum members
who in their ignorence believe in 50  
Atlantis Reference points
& can't see the Forest from the trees !
That's why I pre- warned all since my entry in 2007, for hapilly Barking-up a wrong tree !

Withoud harking and heeding these 3 RULES of THUMB
No Atlantologist here on AIO Forum will ever find it.
My #3 Rules of THUMB will debuke every other Theory

However the AO-Forum members choose not to know what hit them !
Have you one of your thoughfull comments on the Above # 3- RULES of THUMB ?

Sincerely " BlueHue "  :'( :o :'(

dd 18- March- 2009 ( From, the Polly-Univ.of : Delft / Holland.)

Perhaps the writer of Genesis, like yourself, had a few flashbacks, but couldn't remember the whole event ??? 8)  Too bad, it would be nice to know what it was all about.
  Perhaps their experiments got out of control and they were purging the results.  Maybe it's true that they kept just a few certain breeding stock and
According to Cayce, the Atlanteans themselves caused the destruction of their homeland by deliberately ignoring warnings that their experiments with their power source were too dangerous.,
 but have you read the Urantia Book?   not factual or trustworthy.  I don't think it matters who wrote it.  We could say some guys called Mathew, Mark, Luke and John wrote it,a lot of food for thought.  You're of a scientific bent, so you can separate the wheat from the chaff. 


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 18, 2009, 03:30:53 pm
THANK you for reviewing " REPLY nr 23  ".

Archaeology and geology never have an answer, they make it as they go along, sometimes without even any new evidence.


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 18, 2009, 03:32:11 pm
Thank you for your REVIEW of " REPLY-Nr-23 ".

The myth of Noah's flood is just one of many flood myths told through-out the world.  They were used to describe the rising sea levels at the end of the last ice-age.  I've never heard of the flood being people though. Why or how would someone tell the story be confused between people and water?


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Robert0326 on March 18, 2009, 04:26:24 pm
Dear BlueHue,

I am not the same person as Wind.  Not sure where you got that.  Maybe great minds think alike.  ;D

Now as far as the Noah character he goes by several different name all over the world.  In Sumer his name was Utmaphishtim.  And in other tablets from Sumer he was also known as Zisudra, Xisuthros or Atrahasis.  And in the stories of Noah Utmaphishtim they were both told by God to build a boat and fill them with all living things. 

In Central America according to Aztec mythology only two human beings survived: a man, Coxcoxtli; and his wife, Xochiquetzal, who had been forewarned of the cataclysm by a god.  They escaped in a huge boat they had been instructed to build and came to ground on the peak of a tall mountain.

A related Central America tradition, that of the Mechoacanesecs, is in even more striking conformity with the story as we have in Genesis and in the Msopotamian sources.  According to this tradition, the god Tezcatilpoca determined to destroy all mankind with a flood, saving only a certain Tezpi who embarked in a spacious vessel with his wife, his children and large number of animals and birds, as well as supplies of grains and seeds, the preservation of which were essential to the future subsistence of the human race.  The vessel came to rest on an exposed mountain top after Tezcatilpoca had decreed that the waters of the flood should retire.  The man sent out birds of which only the hummingbird came back, with a leafy branch in his beak.  With this sign that the land had begun to renew itself, Tezpi and his family went forth from their ark, multiplied and repopulated the earth.

These are just a few of the many flood myths told through-out the world.  I could go on and on.  With so many how could someone say that they do not have some basis in fact?


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 24, 2009, 04:32:52 pm
There is something not right with the timing of NOACH's FLOOD. and the Atlantis flood.

In my theory
The Noach-Flood was invented to hide the fact that
 contemporay people died not because of a Flood
but by marauders that turned heroes afterwards and later were portraited as
" Peacefull invaders called the TEN Jewish tribes from NOAH"

In Noach's Story,  Atlantis is NOT mentioned Nor the reason WHY that Flood happened
The WaterGod EA spoke to NOAH through a Reedmat wall" Because he was not supposed to speak to humans when seen.
in the Hindu Manu-Flood Myth SHIVA spoke to  Manu though a Stone Wall later called a LINGAM.

Whilst in the Plato-Story the Flood-reason is feigned to be Mankind's disobediance against "good nature"
in the Bible it seems to be that not ManKind but only ADAM's disobediance against God's nature counted
because ADAM ate from the Tree of knowledge of GOOD( and bad.) but did not die (after leaving the Paradise.)

A little comparison of Atlantis Story and the Bible-Flood-Story:

The MEN of Atlantis lived in a virtual Paradise, ................ADAM lived in a Paradise
The Atlantoii were visited by an Earth-Quake,  ............... ADAM was visited by " GOD " for wanting to be like GOD
GOD wanted the Atlantoii to die by a ( Red-)Floodsurge     ADAM was spared but had to leave by an Angel with a flaming Sword.
GOD ( RE or ZEUS.)sent his EYE/ messenger to destroy Earth.......That " Messenger " was a Planet Either the MOON or HERMES or Both !

In the KORAN or perhaps in some RCatholoc apocryph it says that on the ARK sat a GIANT that held the Boat straight/ level and warned when the Flood was over. Elsewhere this GIANT is named as the" Beast 666 of the Apocalypse .

In Plato's Atlantis on the INNER ring of Water facing the Center Temple......In the Heavenly Jerusalem on the Mount Moria( Facing the mount SINAii)
The " Watchmen " had their Bunkhouses                                               The " Watchmen " called Cherubim or GRIGORI had their houses on the Walls of
In my opinion that " Giant " was a white arabian *( Now exitinct-)Elephant. Mount Sinaii

In his political Satire called the Atlantis Dialogue, PLATO equated the Atlantean kings PRO- & Epimetheus
with the Athenian war-Archonts ALKIBIADES & NIKIAS.
to demonstrate the HYBRIS of Both Ancient Atlantis &" Modern" Athens !

in this FLOOD variant:
DORIAN Syracuse would than be the Lady PANDORA sent by Zeus to twart or tempt  mankind's progress
AFTERWARDS the Sea became impassable for the " MUD " whereas at AEGOSPOTAMI in 405 bc
ATHENS 'good' name as a Seafaring nation became"MUD " and the City went down in a Persian insurgence in 379 bc.

The FLOOD of NOACH may have never existed at all and thus
the REAL biblical Flood happened much later in Time.

The Story goes that King SARGON -1 was the REAL " NOACH "(=" SargON of ACCAD.")
in ca.1250 bc HE lead a band of marauding Settlers
from the " HINDU- Kush Valley of KARAKORUM, into Southern ARABY
where they picked a fight with the Local inhabitants over arable Land.

That was MYTH
The invasion of Araby by Iranians started inded in 1250 bc
during the Egyptian 15-th Dynasty by HYKOSOS( indian: RASHAKSAS.)
during the 15-17-th Egyptian Dynasty they ruled Egypt

Moses supposedly was an Egyptian fugitive seeking a safe haven
in his Ancestral home of ( South-)ARABY
But actually he was a Fighting-General camkpagning in the early 18-th Dynasty
 AGAINST the Assyrians & Babilonians.

Bible-Scribe EZDRAS in the service of the NEO-Babilonians
ofcourse could NOT write that story of MOSES the erstwhile " Baylonians-Basher "
so for the safety of the POW-Jews in Babilon he faked this own ancestry !

From MOSES agressive campagn to conquer Ancient Babylon 500 years earlier
he transformed the " Generalissimo" into a fugitive meek lawgiver:
thus the Egyptian megalomaniac-General KAMOSE  became the softhearted " MOISHE "
 
THE STORY OF THE ATLANTIS ATTACK ON ATHENS
is exactly the same as MOISHE's failed attack on the City of Aii in the SIN-aii mountains.

But that is fodder for another random Posting

Thank you for returning my earlier narrative
with a nice story about comparing Flood-tales. ;D

Sincerely " BlueHue  " dd 25 March, from Delft( Polly University )Holland.



Dear BlueHue,

I am not the same person as Wind.  Not sure where you got that.  Maybe great minds think alike.  ;D

Now as far as the Noah character he goes by several different name all over the world.  In Sumer his name was Utmaphishtim.  And in other tablets from Sumer he was also known as Zisudra, Xisuthros or Atrahasis.  And in the stories of Noah Utmaphishtim they were both told by God to build a boat and fill them with all living things. 

In Central America according to Aztec mythology only two human beings survived: a man, Coxcoxtli; and his wife, Xochiquetzal, who had been forewarned of the cataclysm by a god.  They escaped in a huge boat they had been instructed to build and came to ground on the peak of a tall mountain.

A related Central America tradition, that of the Mechoacanesecs, is in even more striking conformity with the story as we have in Genesis and in the Msopotamian sources.  According to this tradition, the god Tezcatilpoca determined to destroy all mankind with a flood, saving only a certain Tezpi who embarked in a spacious vessel with his wife, his children and large number of animals and birds, as well as supplies of grains and seeds, the preservation of which were essential to the future subsistence of the human race.  The vessel came to rest on an exposed mountain top after Tezcatilpoca had decreed that the waters of the flood should retire.  The man sent out birds of which only the hummingbird came back, with a leafy branch in his beak.  With this sign that the land had begun to renew itself, Tezpi and his family went forth from their ark, multiplied and repopulated the earth.

These are just a few of the many flood myths told through-out the world.  I could go on and on.  With so many how could someone say that they do not have some basis in fact?


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: Volitzer on March 25, 2009, 07:22:57 am
The story of Noah is based on a human Earth king named Zisudra whom Enki entrusted all the embryos of most of the species of animals of the time to keep them safe as Nibiru passed Earth displacing the  icecaps via gravitational sheering causing the mass flooding.  FYI.  ;)


Title: Re: "Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?
Post by: BlueHue on March 26, 2009, 10:09:12 am
Dear VOLITZER

I cannot help to warn you of an omission in thought

The Niburu text was found in an archive destroyed aroun 612 bc.

At and before  that time our present Moon was  still a wandering Comet
captured by Earth in an erratic orbit and thus feared an observed
She was named the EYE of RE and ASHERAT of the SEAS( Causing -yearly-annual-Cataclysms.)

But since then the Moon has settled in it's cause and is harmless now.

MOON (= SETH )and  MERCURY (=HORUS )once" revolved around each other in historical times
We call that either the War of the Gods/ Titans the churning of the MilkSea(= MilkyWay !)
or the Cataclysm of Atlantis.

Sincerely " BlueHue "