George Erikson: "Lost Atlantis" & Other ORIGINALS

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George Erikson
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   posted 02-26-2005 09:36 AM                       
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Georgeos,


Has anything been published in English on the 9,000-year-old skeleton of the girl in Cuba?

 

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-26-2005 10:16 AM                       
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Rajesh  what I saying is if there was land or islands, in the Atlantic there would have a much earlier migation into the Americas. There are islands all across the middle of pacific.In any case most likey all migation came through the bering straits.
 

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Elys
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   posted 02-26-2005 11:43 AM                       
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Dear George,
The only thing that we have is an article published by anthropologist and forense doctor, the Dr Ercilio Vênto in the Magazine de Archaeology de Georgeos Diaz, who was published in Spain in 1997.

The article is in Spanish and come some good photos. I do not believe that it is very difficult for an investigator like you that in addition you have been investigating in Central America to be able to obtain that some friend translates the article to the English.

We preferred that you are in charge of the translation, because we did not dominate English sufficient for make a good translation of the article.

As soon as it finishes photocopy with scanner we will publish it in our forum of the Plato's Atlantis of Scientific Atlantology International Society (SAIS). To intention, you also have your Board, between all the investigators of Atlantis of the present time.

It would be an honor for us who same you were in charge to publish a summary of your theories in your own Board.

The direction is: http://DiscoveryAtlantis.sytes.net/


------------------
Eliana García
Cádiz, Spain

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rajesh

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   posted 02-26-2005 01:10 PM                       
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QUOTE>> Rajesh what I saying is if there was land or islands, in the Atlantic there would have a much earlier migation into the Americas. There are islands all across the middle of pacific.In any case most likey all migation came through the bering straits. <<UNQUOTE


Respected DB:

You scored the right point at right time.

So most of the Atlantean migration and their influence from Pacific to America came through the dry and icy Bering Straits.

Atlantis must be having Gods of all the colors and it was left to the choice of the White Cobra God Kvasukiatal to appear in America either from Atlantic or from Pacific side to save his followers. Such an act of him is now equivalent to the term “The will of the God”.

With Regards…

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George Erikson
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   posted 02-26-2005 02:07 PM                       
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Docy,

Au contraire! The Beringia Migration theory was the property of the Clovis First! people who dominated American Archaeology from the late 1920s (when the first bi-facial points were found at Clovis New Mexico)until the mid-nineties.

Mammouth skeletons and bison skeletons have been found in association with these points in many places subsequently, and it was assumed that when human skeletons were to be found that they would be short and broad faced like the north-eastern Asians that they descended from. However, no human skeletons with Amerindian features were found that dated back more 7,800 YBP.

When within the last decade human skulls were carbon dated to an earlier time they were found to be doliocephalic (long and narrow- faced like Europeans). Also, it was expected that an earlier version of the Clovis point would be found in Siberia confiming migration across the dried-up Bering Sea (Beringia). But no Clovis-like point has ever been found in Siberia nor in any part of Asia. Dennis Stanford believes that the Clovis point had its bi-facial equivalent among the Cro-Magnon peoples of western Europe and that they migrated by boat to the American east coast from 16,000 to 30,000 years ago.

However, Kennewick Man (9200 BP)may not be from the east coast. All that has been determined is that he is doliocephalic, having a long and narrow skull. So his ancestors were not the broad-faced, round skulled northern Asians, nor were his descendants amerindians. He may, however, have been from the South Pacific.

Kennewick Man is not the only doliocephalic skull that has been found in the Americas. A rescontruction of the cranium of "Luzia" (11,300BP) found by Walter Neves in south-central Brazil, reveals craniofacial patterns of a Polynesian.

33 skulls of Pericue "Indians" - a now extinct tribe that lived in southern Baja California when the Spainsh arrived in the 1520s - have been dated at 10-12,000 YBP. All resemble the Brazilian skull. A particularly well-preserved skull was recently excavated by Dr. Sylvia Gonzalez. Found in an ancient lakebed near Mexico City the skull, dubbed Penon Woman, has been radiocarbon dated to 12,700 BC. Penon Woman appears similar to "Australians and populations of the south Pacific Rim," says Dr. Gonzalez of Liverpool John Moores University, adding "we've extracted her DNA...it is going to be a bomb."

As Ivar Zapp and I predicted in ATLANTIS IN AMERICA: Navigators of the Ancient World, Beringia migration theorists are now in full retreat.



www.AtlantisInAmerica.com

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-26-2005 03:15 PM                       
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Well George if not the bering strait, the long faces must have hopped, skipped and jumb from the islands in the Pacific, 1200 years ago  Dennis Stanford believes that the Clovis point had its bi-facial equivalent among the Cro-Magnon peoples of western Europe and that they migrated by boat to the American east coast from 16,000 to 30,000 years ago.
If that were the case would`nt they be finding 16,000 to 30,000 year old homo sapian bones?

 

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-26-2005 03:27 PM                       
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Study: Native Americans Weren't the First
By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News
Sept. 6, 2004 — DNA analysis of skulls found in Baja California that belonged to an extinct tribe called the Pericues reveal that the Pericues likely were not related to Native Americans and that they probably predated Native Americans in settling the Americas, according to an announcement Monday.
The finding, released at the British Association for the Advancement of Science (BA) Festival of Science in Exeter, England, adds support to the theory that a number of groups arrived in the Americas via different routes and at varying times, possibly as early as 25,000 years

The study also suggests that the two oldest known Americans — Peñon woman and Kennewick Man — might have belonged to the Pericues tribe.

Even before the DNA analysis, Silvia Gonzalez, lead author of the study and a geoarchaeologist from Liverpool John Moores University, noticed that the Pericues skulls were long and narrow, as opposed to the more broad and round features found in early Native American skulls.

"Because of their skull morphology, long and narrow (dolicocephalic) the Pericues could be related to the oldest Americans known, which are Peñon Woman in the Basin of Mexico at 12,755 before the present, and Kennewick Man at 9,700 years old," Gonzalez told Discovery News just before Monday's announcement.

"Hence, if this was true, they would be older than the Native Indians. The oldest dated Pericue material is only 3,000 years before the present, although there are cave paintings in Baja California dated to 7,500 BP and Clovis points that must be 11,000-11,500 years old."

The genetic study suggests that the Pericues did not originate in Northern Asia, where many experts believe Native Americans first came from. Instead, Gonzalez said the Pericues are closer to the ancient populations of southern Asia, Australia, and the South Pacific Rim.

The surprising link to early Australasian-Melanesian people could mean that the first Americans arrived in the New World in some kind of floating craft that traveled over the Pacific Ocean.

"A coastal Pacific migration route is possible," Gonzalez said.

She explained that the Pericues were a hunter-gatherer society that lived on shellfish, fish, cacti and other plants in the desert area of Baja California. Objects found in the area suggest that the Pericues used stone tools.

Gonzalez indicated that they had a complex burial system involving mortuary-like burial areas located both along the coast and in caves. She said they also used wooden spear throwers, and likely painted bones with red ochre, as early decorated shells and pearls have been found in Baja.

"The missionary descriptions indicated that the men were naked and the women wore grass skirts, and they were very tall and slim," Gonzalez added. "They became extinct during the 18th century due to the lifestyle changes imposed by the missionaries to a sedentary way of life."

Chris Stringer, head of human origins at The Natural History Museum London, told Discovery News, "This work is very important in adding further weight to the idea that the first inhabitants of the Americas did not resemble present-day Native Americans.

"These finds are physically distinct and some Mexican fossils have been dated close to the earliest known human occupation of the Americas," he said.

He added, "However, it is difficult to trace their point of origin as people 10,000 or 20,000 years ago did not look like their modern counterparts in many parts of the world, including Africa, Europe, and China.

"It is likely that southeast Asia 20,000 years ago was inhabited by people who more closely resembled present-day Polynesians or Australian aborigines so this could indeed be a source for the first Americans. They could have taken a coastal route to get there around the North Pacific Rim — it seems unlikely that they came directly across the Pacific."

Silvia Gonzalez believes several migrations took place, with people coming from North East Siberia, the Western Pacific, and even from Europe.

So far, the fossil database in the Americas, beyond the more recent Native American finds, has proven to be quite sparse, perhaps due to weather-related erosion of remains. Gonzalez hopes future DNA studies, craniometrics (skull analysis), and additional evidence will shed more light on the Pericues and other early Americans.
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040906/firstamerican.html

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George Erikson
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   posted 02-26-2005 04:25 PM                       
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Docy,



"Wouldn't they be finding Homo sapiens from 16 to 30,000 years ago?"



Yeah. Except that when Sylvia Gonzalez says that the "fossil database" is small in the Americas she is understating the case. No human skulls have ever been found in association with Clovis man. And since the Beringia migration could not have been made before 12,000 years ago almost no archaeologist has excavated sites at deeper levels than the Clovis points.

The few who did were held up to ridicule by the "Clovis mafia" who were able to destroy many academic careers.

It was not until Tom Dillehay proved that Monte Verde (in Chile) was occupied by humans more than 12,000 years ago (and that these people had a maritime culture, not hunter-gatherer) that more than a very few dared excavate at older levels. Now the majority of Clovis sites need to be re-excavated at deeper levels. Just as with undersea archaeology, we've just begun looking in the right places!

People have asked me why we have found so many dinosaur fossils and so few human fossils in the Americas. It is becuase the dinosuars dominated from 225,000,000 years ago to just 65 Million years ago. That's 160 million years of chances to make dinosaur fossils. The 14,000 year window for human fossils is a mere tick of the clock by comparison.



www.AtlantisInAmerica.com

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Boreas
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   posted 02-26-2005 07:01 PM                       
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The discoveries mentioned all points to that there have been people populating the American continents minimum 12-14.000 BP. Which means they have habitated both south and north America, DURING the last ice-time.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/stoneage/clovis.html
HOW long back we dont now. NOBODY have anything even close to proof to that human beings did not live in America BEFORE that time.

We are all familiar with the PRESUMPTIONS saying that "modern man" came into being first 100-70.000 years ago, - in Africa.

Thus ALL all models of etnology, antropology, archeology and - even - genetics, - base their thinking on that.

Today we KNOW that this time-line is off-side. Humanity, - as a cultural term - must be far older than that. Thus we better revise our conclusions about the findings mentioned. The most fundamental change lays within our EVALUATION of the results mentioned.

Since you seem to be following the traditional line of "terminology" - I still see statements like; "The first Americans" being 12-14.000, or 30.000 years old.

Its basic to understand that the American civilisations were from the same origin as all other populations of the world.

But to keep the view that we have existed for 6.778 years - since "Adam of Eden" - or 20-40.000 years, as "freak elements" out of "Rift Valley" - is nothing but presumptious. What general view do we have -of the entire earth - that makes us believe that this peculiar discovery IS "all" that exist?

The belearned gents and ladies may have noticed that we are just about starting to find SOME of the remains of mankind DURING ice-time. Michael Cremos work even documents that there ARE evidents that mankind have been around for some MILLIONS of years.

Arctic man being (much) more than 300.000 years old, Spanish Cro-Magnons being more than 700.000 years old (Altamira). AT THE MOMENT.

Thus I have yet to see a scientific explanation to WHY American populations "needs" to be (much) younger.

Respectfully Yours

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-26-2005 09:58 PM                       
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Acheology has found plenty of hominids, dated 3 million years ago.However nothing in the Americas, that would suggest the homo sapien came before 12,000 years ago, after the last ice age.
George, it is possible man could have crossed the Atlantic in reed boats, that was proven by the Ra expedition, or even the Phoenicians, however how far down they dig,I don`t think they will find any humans bones dated 30,000 years ago, therefor there was no conintent in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-26-2005 10:38 PM                       
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Israeli expedition to unlock mystery of human origins
By Louise Shalev and Rava Eleasari February 20, 2005


Keren Oren, a third-year student at the Jacob M. Alkow Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Culture, works at the site near Beit Shemesh which has yielded the earliest known iron workshop in the eastern Mediterrann

Since the discovery of a 160,000-year old human-like skull in Ethiopia in 2002, scientists have been refocusing their interest on questions relating to the evolution of Homo sapiens. Where and when did modern humans first appear and what were their routes of dispersal?

The only way to solve this puzzle, say scientists, is to uncover human remains in archeological layers older than those found in Ethiopia - dating to between 150,000 to 250,000 years ago. However, no accurately dated well-preserved hominid fossils from this period have been discovered.

Now, through a grant given by the Dan David Foundation a project is underway in northern Israel to unearth the oldest remnants of Homo sapiens outside of Africa. The foundation was launched by Dan David, a Tel Aviv University honorary doctor and founder of the annual Dan David Prize administered by TAU.

The four-year excavation in the Misliya cave on Mount Carmel is being conducted by TAU paleoanthropologist Prof. Israel Hershkovitz together with Haifa University archeologist Prof. Mina Weinstein-Evron. Prof. Hershkovitz is the incumbent of the Tassia and Dr. Joseph Meychan Chair in the History and Philosophy of Medicine at TAU?s Sackler Faculty of Medicine.

Excavations on Mount Carmel conducted some 70 years ago already yielded human remains dating back 100,000 years. However, the Misliya cave, which has yet to be excavated, contains four-meter deep prehistoric layers dating back 500,000 years, says Hershkovitz. The now collapsed roof of the cave has protected the sediments from erosion during thousands of years.

Preliminary excavations at the site have already yielded animal bones and a fragment of an ancient human upper jaw (with teeth intact) and a finger bone.

Hershkovitz notes that the 160,000-year old Ethiopian skulls are on the verge of anatomical modernity, but are not yet fully modern and this why they were assigned to a new subspecies: Homo sapiens Idaltu. These skulls are very distinct from the anatomically modern Homo sapiens skulls found in Israel which are dated to 100,000 years ago.

Dan David became interested in the project when he toured the site together with Prof Hershkovitz and 2003 Dan David Prize laureate Prof. Michel Brunet of France. Brunet was awarded the prize for his 2002 discovery of the cranium of the oldest human ancestor to date, a nearly 7 million-year old hominid species.

For David the field of paleoanthropology is an intellectual passion and he is extremely knowledgeable on the subject, notes Hershkovitz. After learning about the cave's potential to reveal ancient human remains and the importance of paleoanthropological research in Israel, he offered the assistance of the Dan David Foundation in funding the project.

DNA analysis has indicated that the earliest form of Homo sapiens could date back 250,000 years, says Hershkovitz.

"If we find fragments that old at Misliya, it would provide historical depth for Homo sapiens, as well as crucial evolutionary, cultural and genetic information about the earliest form of the species and its migration routes. It will also put Israel on the map as a major center for research into paleontology," he says.

Israel needs no help, however in being at the center of the world's archaeological map. Two TAU archaeologists have shed light on the development of Iron Age technology as well as on ninth-century BCE Israel by uncovering the earliest known iron workshop in the Eastern Mediterranean, discovered in Beit Shemesh.

The transition from bronze to iron around the beginning of the first millennium BCE brought many advantages: warriors gained fiercer weapons and chariots; farmers stronger ploughs, scythes and sickles; and craftsmen sturdier hammers and chisels. But these benefits were not achieved overnight; it took about 200 years and several technological leaps to transform inferior wrought iron into superior tempered steel.

According to the Bible, the Philistines, archrivals of the ancient Hebrews in the 12th and 11th centuries BCE, jealously guarded iron production in Israel. "There was no smith to be found throughout all the land of Israel," the First Book of Samuel recounts, "for the Philistines said: 'Lest the Hebrews make themselves swords or spears.'"

By King David's time in the 10th century, however, iron had become commonplace - and the recent finding by the TAU team provides the first close-up look at how the iron industry might have developed. A 9th-century BCE iron forge, complete with hearths, tools, raw material, slag and hundreds of iron items, was unearthed in Beih-Shemesh, near Jerusalem, by two researchers at TAU's Nadler Institute of Archaeology. Drs. Shlomo Bunimovitz and Zvi Lederman, co-directors of the excavations, say that this is the earliest iron workshop to be found in the entire eastern Mediterranean region.

"Until now," explains Bunivomitz, "the scientific study of the blacksmith's technical abilities during the transition to iron relied on the analysis of finished articles, rather than on industrial remains. The workshop excavated in Beth-Shemesh allows, for the first time, a detailed study of what the ancient blacksmith knew about smelting, steeling and cooling the iron," he says.

Lederman added: "The process of turning iron into steel was a complex one, and now by reconstructing the workshop we can better visualize how it was achieved."

Modern scientific techniques are invaluable for studying the forge, notes Bunivomitz. For example, magnetic scanning of the distribution of hammerscales - the tiny filaments of iron struck off by the anvil - allows the reconstruction of the blacksmith's arrangement of his workspace.

Notable among the items found at the site are square-shaped clay blowpipes used to raise the temperature of the hearth, and bronze arrowheads that may have served as prototypes for iron arrowheads.

Along with answering technological questions, the iron workshop sheds light on the political economy of the area. Recent excavations at Beih Shemesh reveal that the transformation of the site from a large unfortified village in the 12-11th centuries BCE into a well-organized administrative center in the 10th and 9th centuries BCE provide archaeological confirmation of the emerging monarchy in Judah. Since the iron workshop is located between the public buildings in town, it can be presumed to have been governmental, which could be further evidence of the developing importance and strength of monarchical Judah.

Study of the iron workshop is being conducted together with University College, London, and is being supported by the Israel Science Foundation and the Tayler family of Washington, DC. Collaborating in the Beit Shemesh excavations are Indiana University, Harding University and Louisiana College, US, and Lethbridge University, Canada.


http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enDispWho=Articles%5El926&enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enVersion=0&enZone=Cultur

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rockessence

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   posted 02-26-2005 10:47 PM                       
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Doc,

According to the Bocksaga the earliest people practiced a cremation ritual which was strictly followed. The Americas present an interesting question: If the only ones who came here practiced cremation, we are at a loss to even speculate.

Finding the Kenniwick remains suggests that occasionally someone died alone and their body was never found to cremate. We can never say what is out there to be uncovered until we find it.

Boats of reed or balsa or bamboo all are possibilities, but the Asers built boats of wood to escape the sliding glacial ice-sheets and sailed out across the Baltic Sea to Gotland. This was 10,000 years ago. They could't have done that without having had a long previous history of having sturdy wooden boats.

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Tom Hebert
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  posted 02-27-2005 05:25 AM                       
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Rock,
This certainly agrees with what Cayce said about Mesoamerica in Atlantean times.


quote:
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914-1
Before that we find the entity was in that now known as or called the Atlantean land, during those experiences when there was the egress of the peoples before the periods of the final destruction.
The entity was among those that made for the coordinating of the activities with those of the various lands to which they were to journey. Then the entity was not only something of the judge and jury, as would be called, but was one entrusted with a mission for seeking out those lands that were to make for the proper surroundings, environs and activities for the peoples. And the entity came into that land now known as the Central American land, where the peoples builded many of the temples that are being uncovered today.

As the entity reads or knows or hears of same, these become of particular interest to the entity; for these are as a portion of the entity's experience. The entity may answer much that has been questioned in the minds of those that have sought to know WHY there are no remains of the settlements or the peoples that left the land without showing any burial grounds. For the ENTITY was the one that began the cremations, the ashes of much of which may be found in one of those temples that was prepared for same.


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Tom

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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 02-27-2005 07:15 AM                       
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Tom,Rocksense, even if cremation of bodies were true, acheology would still find relics and tools dating back 30,000 years ago. The Kennwick man is still only dated 9,000 years old. 

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Tom Hebert
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  posted 02-27-2005 01:56 PM                       
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Hi Doc,

It is my understanding that archeologists already have found tools and artifacts dating back 30,000-40,000 years in South America and in Pennsylvania as well!

There may be other sites in the Western Hemisphere that I am not aware of.



The Clovis First myth is dead. I'm afraid you're just going to have to get over it.



Tom