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Basque Mythology (Original)

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Europa
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« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2008, 10:21:59 pm »

Briwnys

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   posted 06-16-2006 05:40 PM                       
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Barry Cunliffe, one of the world's most highly regarded authorities on prehistoric Europe, argues that the peoples of the Atlantic Facade — of Iceland, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany, Spain, Portugal, and Gibraltar — all share a cultural identity shaped by the Atlantic Ocean, an identity which stretches back almost ten thousand years.

A shared genetic signature on the western edge of Europe is the predominant trend in Irish genetics. Irish genetic affinity to Scotland, Wales, sometimes also Cornwall, Brittany, Galicia, mirrors other similarities between these regions. Each has some Celtic heritage, common archaeology such as the megalithic remains from 5,000 years ago and each faces the ocean with rocky shorelines rich in natural harbours.

Two major factors may lead to genetic similarities among populations: common origins or subsequent substantial migration between them. The Atlantic facade genetic heritage is likely to reflect both. There are strong traditions of migrations from Ireland to Scotland and Cornwall to Brittany within the last 2,000 years. It is also probable that the Celtic regions share (also with the Basques of northwest Spain and southwest France) some remnant of a very early western European genetic stratum which, because of extreme geography, has not been obscured by the myriad mass population movements of the continental interior.

Daniel Bradley, co-author of a genetic study into Celtic origins from Trinity College Dublin, says DNA evidence showed people in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany and Cornwall had strong genetic ties with each other and more in common with people from the Iberian peninsula than the Celts who came from an area to the east of modern France and south of Germany.

"What we would propose is that this commonality among the Atlantic facade is much older... 6 000 years ago or earlier," Bradley told Reuters.

He said people may have moved up from areas around modern-day Portugal and Spain at the end of the Ice Age.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211427/posts

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« Reply #91 on: May 23, 2008, 10:23:10 pm »

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  posted 06-17-2006 12:13 AM                 
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Interesting Briwnys.

Let me read up on this some more.

Many thanks again.

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« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2008, 10:24:33 pm »

Irish, Scots And Welsh Not Celtic - Scientist
IOL ^ | 9-9-2004

Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:59:23 PM by blam

Irish, Scots and Welsh not Celts - scientists


September 09 2004 at 08:15PM


Dublin - Celtic nations like Ireland and Scotland have more in common with the Portuguese and Spanish than with "Celts" - the name commonly used for a group of people from ancient Alpine Europe, scientists say.

"There is a received wisdom that the origin of the people of these islands lie in invasions or migrations... but the affinities don't point eastwards to a shared origin," said Daniel Bradley, co-author of a genetic study into Celtic origins.

Early historians believed the Celts - thought to have come from an area to the east of modern France and south of Germany - invaded the Atlantic islands around 2 500 years ago.

But archaeologists have recently questioned that theory and now Bradley, from Trinity College Dublin, and his team, say DNA evidence supports their thinking.

Affinities don't point eastwards to a shared origin Geneticists used DNA samples from people living in Celtic nations and compared the genetic traits with those of people in other parts of Europe.

The study showed people in Celtic areas: Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany and Cornwall, had strong genetic ties, but that this heritage had more in common with people from the Iberian peninsula.

"What we would propose is that this commonality among the Atlantic facade is much older... 6 000 years ago or earlier," Bradley told Reuters.

He said people may have moved up from areas around modern-day Portugal and Spain at the end of the Ice Age.

The similarities between Atlantic "Celts" could also suggest these areas had good levels of communications with one another, he added.

But the study could not determine whether the common genetic traits meant "Celtic" nations would look alike or have similar temperaments. Dark or red hair and freckles are considered Celtic features.


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« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2008, 10:28:27 pm »

Robert Catesby
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  posted 07-07-2006 08:51 AM                 
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Hello Brinwys,

I thought I would resume discussions here instead of the strange Mars thread!

I consulted my "Old Celtic Romances" book and discovered that the name of the land told of in a number seafaring tales is "tir-fa-tonn" which I don't have to tell you is "land/fairyland beneath the waves."

It was supposedly occupied by a pre-Celtic group of people like the Parthalons or Fomorians before it submerged.

It has taken on mythic properties and serves as a Gaelic Atlantis. Some references say that Apollo was born there.

In my research on this, I was surprised to learn of the Celtic God war god "Net" and how he is believed to be the same God as the ancient Egyptian goddess "Neith". What is interesting about Neith is that she is one of the goddesses that was passed to the very early Egyptians by the tuareg of North Africa! This confirms the migratory connection between Morocco, Iberia, Brittany and the British Isles, an area already connected strongly via megalith constructions and megalithic art. I could throw the Canaries into this mix as well, a treasure trove of megalithic art, design and monuments and its own lore of a lost caucasian society.

I could find nothing decent on the net to show a subsurface "Island" SW of Ireland as per modern ocean depth soundings but I am sure I have a picture in my library. I'll look for it, scan it and set it up for viewing.

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« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2008, 10:30:05 pm »

 
Briwnys

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   posted 07-07-2006 11:25 AM                       
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Thanks, Robert

I am looking forward to viewing that depth chart. For my comments on the Brithonic "Lands Under The Waves", please check out the Lochlann portion of my Blessed Isles website: http://www.geocities.com/blessed_isles/Lochlann/index.html

I have, of course, long suspected a North African-Iberian link but have found nothing so far to peg it to. The similarity of names between the Twareg, the Twghry and the Tylwyth Teg, the Fair Folk of Welsh mythology, certainly tempts one to jump to the conclusion that they are all the same people, however. According to geneticist E. Gomez-Casado, "the Basque genes of Spain were part of an ancient Caucasian gene pool that included the blonde haired Berbers of Morrocco, the Tuareg, Egyptians, Minoans, Palestinians, Israelis, Lebanese, Kurds and Turks."

He goes on to say, "Interestingly the red haired Phoenicians and Celts, two great seafaring nations that commanded the Atlantic Ocean were also from this gene pool."

The link to Apollo is interesting as well. Although Apollo was a Thracian god, he was said to winter every year in the norther land of Hyperborea. Stonehenge was thought to be his temple.

Apollo is analogous to the half-Formorian/half-Danaan Lugh Lamfada, one of two half Formorian kings of the Tuatha de Danaan who, like the Atlanteans, had 10 kings.

Briwnys

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« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2008, 10:30:44 pm »

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  posted 07-07-2006 11:39 AM                 
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Wonderful, Wonderful Briwnys!!!

Are there any gaelic language terms similar to "Tamazigh" or "Amazigh", the name give to the Tuareg language?

Interesting about Apollo's home at Stonehenge. Are you positive that it is Stonehenge? What if it were Newgrange? If it were Newgrange then a connection could be drawn between Apollo and Uriel a la Knight and Lomas' references to Uriel being a visitor to a superior technical culture in the north in which he describes a building that can be none other than Newgrange.

And yes, I have heard of connections between, Hyperborea and Hybrasil and, of course, Hibernia.

Now I have to read up on Apollo!!!

Know anything about the "Red Ochre People"? Their characteristic campsites have been found on the eastern seaboard of North America as well as all over the NW European fringe.

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« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2008, 10:31:09 pm »

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from edo nyland homepage
Hypotheses:
Here is my first effort to form the hypotheses (suppositions) which form the foundation for my theory (the basis for experimentation), which attempts to explain my linguistic findings. (This is a draft only and it is too long).

Hypo 1: The Saharan language was the language of the peoples living in the Sahara during the last Ice Age, who had created the first true civilization on earth, possibly centered around lake Chad. As a result of deglaciation, starting about 18,000 before present (B.P.), resulting in ever expanding desertification, these tribes were forced to flee for their lives, creating an exodus culminating between 9,000 and 5,500 B.P. These refugees created four main secondary civilizations in Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and Anatolia.
Hypo 2: The Saharan language is still spoken as Dravidian in India (170 million speakers), as Ainu on the island of Hokkaido (18,000 speakers) and as Basque in Euskadi, Spain (800,000 speakers). Basque is likely the closest resembling the original language of the exodus.
Hypo 3: The people of the exodus from the Sahara brought with them a matrilineally organized society, the nature based Goddess religion and the first highly developed language, maintained by very strong oral traditions.
Hypo 4: As a result of several major advances in a number of fields such as agriculture, metallurgy, domestication of the horse and camel, astronomy etc. the female-based religion was weakened and male domination arrived ca 5,000 B.P. in Egypt, Mesopotamia and Anatolia, and about 3,500 B.P. in India. The newcomers brought along learned priesthoods who proceeded to invert all aspects of the old religion, society, language, legends etc. A new language was invented for each large area and placed under the control of a king, e.g. Sumerian and Akadian in Mesopotamia, Old Egyptian in Egypt, Samskrta and Hindi in India, Hebrew in Palestine, Hittite and Luvian in Anatolia etc. All these were the product of formulaic distortion and scholarly manipulation of the original Saharan language. The Bible repeats the command to distort the original language in Gen. 11:7.
Hypo 5: These newly created languages were then introduced to the local populations by taking young boys into residential schools and forcing the new order onto them, where they were often brutally treated. The purpose was to destroy the old religion and language and the traditional oral teaching of wisdom, religion and legends, replacing it with a patriarchal vision of the world and civilization. They almost succeeded. The hidden sentences in the invented words can be decoded with the use of the Basque dictionary and a simple formula.

Theory:
All highly developed languages on earth (except possibly Chinese) can be shown to have been developed from the original Saharan language, which in itself was also scholarly enhanced from the neolithic substratum. There exists no "family" of Indo-European or Semitic languages. There are no Indo-Europeans or a proto-I-E. language; all these unstable languages are invented by scholars. Only Saharan has remained relatively unchanged and is now spoken as Basque.

http://www.islandnet.com/~nyland/linguist.htm

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« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2008, 10:31:35 pm »

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  posted 07-07-2006 12:17 PM                       
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where did chinese come from then?

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« Reply #98 on: May 23, 2008, 10:32:16 pm »

 
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  posted 07-07-2006 12:24 PM                       
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they are a mix between homo sapiens and homo erectus

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« Reply #99 on: May 23, 2008, 10:32:48 pm »

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  posted 07-07-2006 01:15 PM                 
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Mr. Bear,

Questioning the "Indo-European" paradigm is good. Briwnys also got me started on this. I think it has merit and is worthy of serious debate and investigation. Considering that boat navigation is far easier than land navigation and allows the transport of goods, animals and people and allows procurement from a wider variety of food providing ecosystems - movement of peoples overland from eastern Europe does not make as much sense versus a Saharan maritime move throughout the Mediterranean and Atlantic. There are a number of great, navigable rivers that flow west out of the Sahara into the Atlantic via Morocco, Spanish Sahara, Mauretania, the Gambia etc.

Would not Tamazigh be an older language than Basque consistent with the idea of a migration northward out of the Sahara? I know there are some similarities between Basque and Tamazigh but they are few and far between.

Speaking of ancient Saharan civilizations, you may enjoy this: http://members.a1.net/myrine/AR_Tun05e.pdf

Briwnys,

You state on your web page that "Avalon lies at the latitude where the sun forms a perfect X during the winter and summer solstice, i.e., the only place on earth where the sun sets and rises at +/- 45 degrees to the horizon."

This is the latitude upon which Stonehenge resides.

You also comment on the Pleides explosion possibly leading to plasma like lights in the sky that were tree shaped inspiring the global myth of the tree of life, the sephora etc. It could also be this: http://www.thunderbolts.info/pdf/01.1PART%20I_Ch1.pdf

Timing for this is noted as 7000 BC to 3000 BC which coincidently also times well with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollmann%27s_hypothetical_bolide

And what's more, the Younger Dryas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas seems to have ended exactly at the dates consistent with Tollman's first impact and consistent with the earliest sky plasma events recorded as petroglyphs.

I believe there has been another discovery a more recent brain mutation advantageous for humans at a much later date. I'll do some diggin'

Robert Catesby

[ 07-07-2006, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Robert Catesby ]
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« Reply #100 on: May 23, 2008, 10:33:29 pm »

Briwnys

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   posted 07-07-2006 05:58 PM                       
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Huggy,

While there is much about your theory with which I agree, the migration of Cro-Magnon from Northern Africa into Europe must have occured before 37,000 B.P. A Proto-Aquitainean (Cro-Magnon) civilization called Hyperborea was already in existance before 26,000 B.P.

At a time when the other races of man were waging war and leaving the bodies of their dead to the elements, or at most were preserving only the heads, the northern Hyperboreans along the Baltic were burying the complete body of the deceased in an area designated solely for this purpose while similar ritual burials had taken place in Wales as far back as 24,000 BCE.

The bodies were preserved by painting them with ochre, after which they were wrapped in animal skins and placed in the hollowed out trunks of trees that closely resembled the Egyptian sarcophagi thousands of years later. Grave goods included statues, beads and jewelry carved from amber, pearls and bone.

While I do not subscribe to the Bock Saga in its entirety, certain elements contained within it resonate with elements from other sources. One cannot discount the possibility presented by the Saga that the Aesti had a different origin from the Iberian Cro-Magnons with whom they share the Atlantic Module Haplotype (AMH) legacy.

There was also migration from the Baltic region of Hyperborea toward Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and Anatolia between the dates stated in your Hypo1. This migration of the Hyperboreans followed the Dnieper south to the Black Sea and the area between it and the Caucasus mountains, which led them through the territory of the Kurgan Herders of the Steppes. The amalgamation of these cultures gave birth to the "Indo-Europeans".

Briwnys

[ 07-08-2006, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Briwnys ]

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« Reply #101 on: May 23, 2008, 10:34:02 pm »

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   posted 07-07-2006 06:21 PM                       
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Robert,

The closest word to Amazigh in the Gaelic would be Amasguidh or Amsgith. Language which is not sacred or concerned with religion. Common or profane language. Characterized by profanity or cursing; "foul-mouthed and blasphemous"; "blue language"; "profane words".

Briwnys

[ 07-07-2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Briwnys ]

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« Reply #102 on: May 23, 2008, 10:35:08 pm »

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   posted 07-14-2006 10:44 AM                       
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A few segregated pockets of human populations exist in the world today whose origins have long intrigued anthropologists. The Basques, whose roots are lost in prehistoric mists, belong to one such race. Over the years, several engaging theories have been proposed regarding their origin. One of the more imaginative identified them with the lost tribe of Israel while another considered them survivors of ill-fated Atlantis.

Recent breakthroughs in linguistic and genetic investigations, however, confirm the even more startling thesis that the Basques are stragglers of the first group of Cro-Magnon to venture out of the Middle East during the middle Paleolithic to displace the Neanderthals and settle Europe. Keys to the survival of this racial isolate were the abrupt mountain valleys and near-impenetrable Pyrenean forests they chose to inhabit. The reluctance to share their gene pool with subsequent invaders helped preserve their ancestral traits and archaic morphology. So formidable were these geographical and cultural barriers, so effective their genetic isolation that the Basques managed to retain some of the vestigial traits that classify them as one of the handful of relic races remaining on earth today.

Linguists and anthropologists have long tried to solve the riddle of their origins. The mystery remained largely unsolved until recently, when a Spanish linguist [1] succeeded in breaking the Iberian hieroglyphic cipher, conclusively proving that the inscriptions engraved on Iberian vases, tombstones and lead tablets unearthed in eastern Spain represent Basque words written in archaic Phoenician or proto-Greek alphabets. This confirmation of an old conjecture underscores the intriguing hypothesis that the Basques - read "Iberians" - come from the Caucasus. Over two thousand years ago Egyptian [2], Greek [3] and Roman [4] sources identified the inhabitants of the southeastern foothills of the Caucasus as "Iberians." Strabo's and Pliny's commentaries further aver that, during Roman times, Iberian was widely spoken in Aquitaine, a vast region in southwestern France.

Combined with the ice-aged words fossilized in their language, this wealth of clues strongly supports the thesis of an Iberian ice-age migration from the Caucasus to Western Europe and their eventually crossing the Pyrenees to settle in the peninsula that bears their name today. Corroborating this conjecture is the recent genetic sleuthing [5] of Basque mitochondrial DNA, confirming that just such a migration took place some forty thousand years ago, right about the time of the first Cro-Magnon incursion into Europe.

While the vast majority of peninsular Iberians and their trans-Pyrenean kin in Aquitaine eventually lost their original ethnicity on melding with subsequent invading cultures, quite another fate befell those who remained in fairly inaccessible pockets of the western Pyrenean mountain valleys. Inspired by a fierce spirit of independence, these few, endogamous stragglers managed to retain their archaic language, their relic racial characteristics and their original blood genotype. It is startling to realize that the Neolithic artists of those handsome cave paintings of Lascaux, Niaux, Isturitz and Altamira were Basque. It is equally intriguing to conjecture that listening to spoken Basque today may be like listening to a scratchy millennial tape recording of our Cro-Magnon ancestors.

During a recent visit to my ancestral home in the Spanish Pyrenees, I happened across a sixteenth century manuscript claiming family roots that dated back to "time immemorial." This startling discovery encouraged me to anchor this chronicle in the prehistoric past, describing a journey spanning the last glacial age to the present. It narrates the meandering of a family of Vascon warlords, the Agorretas, as they grope their way out of the prehistoric mists and into the glare of history.

The account begins during the brief warming spell of the Pandorf Interstadial, some forty-thousand years ago. A band of nomadic hunters abandons its Caucasian caves to pursue the big game, which has retreated to the northern tundra following the receding ice cap. As the weather turns cold again, during the peak of the Würm glaciation some twenty thousand years later, the big game and its pursuers retreat south, keeping one step ahead of the advancing ice sheet. The hunters seek shelter in caves at the foot of both the Massif Central and the Pyrenees and leave their artistic imprint in cave paintings along the way.
Preface to the Lords of Navarre by Jose Mari Lacambra

http://www.buber.net/Basque/Features/GuestColumns/jml040624.php

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« Reply #103 on: May 23, 2008, 10:37:52 pm »

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   posted 07-29-2006 01:00 AM                       
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Basques in the susquehanna valley 2,500 years ago?
Back in the 1940s, Dr. W.W. Strong assembled about 400 inscribed stones from Pennsylvania's Susquehanna Valley. Called the Mechanicsburg Stones, they seemed to bear Phoenician characters -- at least Strong interpreted them as such. Naturally, Strong was ridiculed, for the Columbus-first dogma was dominant then. More recently, however, B. Fell claimed that the Mechanicsburg Stones are the work of Basque settlers circa 600 BC. The Basque theory has fared no better than the Phoenician. Now, a noted authority on the Basque language, Imanol Agire, has strongly supported Fell's conclusion that ancient Basques carved the stones.

(Anonymous; "Noted Basque Scholar Supports Claim That Mechanicsburg Stones Were Cut by Ancient Basques," NEARA Journal, 15:67, 1981.)

Reference. For other enigmatic inscriptions, see our Handbook Ancient Man. This volume is described here.


Inscription on one of the Mechanicsberg Stones


From Science Frontiers #15, Spring 1981. © 1981-2000 William R. Corliss

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« Reply #104 on: May 23, 2008, 10:41:03 pm »

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Got a question....if the cro-magnon came west from the Caucasus, why are their oldest remains and most plentiful remains on the western shores of france and Spain? Perhaps things have changed, I admit my sources are rather dated; but it was thought the Cro-magnon originated on the western shores of Europe and migrated eastward.
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