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Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files by Rockessence

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2008, 03:06:36 am »

tarkin22180
Member posted 03-09-2004 15:10
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I've seen a satellite image of Sri Lanka, suggesting that a "land bridge" once existed to the mainland (India). An underwater city was discovered recently off the coast of India.
I've heard the "Meta Physical Atlantis Myth" story before. It is a valid point of view. But it does not explain the physical evidence, not to mention the archaeological evidence.
My favorite line is when Plato mentions the "counter continent". How would the Greeks know about the Americas?

Plato did not say in front of the Pillars of Hercules, but "beyond". This is rather vague, but in the context of the world ocean, the counter continent and the Mediterranean Sea but an inlet, this tells me Antarctica.

But there are many suggested locations of Atlantis. Lets keep looking!

John


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Janna Britton
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2008, 03:07:10 am »

Boreas
Member posted 03-10-2004 16:58
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Hi again,
Since I heard about the Bocksaga first time - in 1989 - I have spent a load of hours checking its "farfetched" statements and incredible outlines.
Of many relevant sources I looked on all the known, historical material from the northern countries, containing the oldest myths and legends known of "pre-christian" Europe. Due to its specifc relevance to the Finnish area I focused on the oldest litterate sources of Ireland, England and Iceland/Norway.

After three yars of minutious comparision I was still not able to find ONE undisputable recognition from all this material that really contradicted the essensials - or even some details - of the "hillarious" - or even "outrageous" Bocksaga.

Thus the old poem "RIGS TULA" - a Norse issue of the more famous "RIG VEDA" - clearly tells the story of how Rig, the procreating King, created the three levels of people, - namely the "Jarls" (Earls), the Kars (Peasants) and the Trels (laymen) -to constitute the different functions of a cultural society - of his people...

---

Later did I come across a Finnish tourist-map from the 1950-ties, where the county surrounding Helsinki was labeled "Uudenmaan Lääni", obviously referring to the old "Odens land" - and not ONLY as a genitive of "Uusima" ("New-land").
(This name is obviously a mere transalation of the Fenno-Swedish name of that same area, "Ny-land" also meaning "New-land".)

----

The conventional view to the "Swedish" language of the Finnish coastline - and the Helsinki area especially - is explaining that all the fenno-swedish names came with the Swedish "conquerors" - arriving around 1250-1300.

Though, - common sense alone will ask for the logic explanation to how a swedish "ruling-class" would spread into each and every nook and corner of the Finnish coastland - all the way from todays Carelia to the top of the Botnic Bay. Especially since the fenno-swedish language seems to be covering all the significant identities existing in this vast landscape -with hundreds of thousands of names - identifying all theese places around the yards, farms, villages, cities, bays, oceans, lakes, rivers, beaches, flatlands, woodlands, hills, hilltops and mountains. As well as all the other objects and identities one may find in theese areas.

---

Using conventional OPINIONS - such as the well-known theory of the "Mideval Swedish expantion" into Finland - to prove the origin of the Fenno-Swedish language and culture - is a very risky endavour. That is if you are really looking for the truth of the matter. If one like to be CRITICAL - not to say "sceptic" - to this Saga-material one need to exercise the exact same critical review on the conventional information.

There is - to put it siple - still NO scientific proof established that really can tell if the coastal Finns where speaking Fenno-Swedish before 1250, or not. It is not even clear from where this population of southern Finland arrived - when the area around Helsinki got populated by new settlers in the 13th century.

It is likewise a major historical puzzle WHY this very core area of Finland was not populated (seemingly not at all) in the period between 1050 and 1250...

---

To ridicule and gag about a new (and thus fragile) concept is very easy. It doesnt even take courage, yet alone intelligence. And still it may be very tempting - especially if one is "convinced" of some former opinion in one or many of theese matters.

Thus a highly stigmatized topic may still be hard to present or discuss. Such as the male fallos and its very essence; the spermea. Even among modern, well-educated and agnostic - or even professional scientists. Not even hundreds of rock-carvings and paintings are "understood". Although they -loud and clear - are telling that our ancestors, all over the world, kept the fallic exponence in the open. Obviously without "shame" or "disregard", but with a high degree of regard and proudness.

Still WE tend to view that as "primitive" or even "wrong". Thus when the Bocksaga refers to theese historical time, telling in length about this old "fertility-culture" - the re-action is close at hand. Especially since the saga goes straigth to the core of the most heavy condemnation of the former "headon culture", that was exercised by the religous or fundamental gouvernments all through the mideval age. Today we may just wonder about why, how and what started this condemnation of our natural organs, our geneticals, our recreative force and the essence of it all; being the "seed-of-life", namly the sperm, itself.

According to the Bocksaga values such as health, vitality, vigour, beauty and brigthness was regarded, cheerished and stimulated/developed during pagan time. One way of doing this was to keep our most highly developed cells, - the spermia - in a recirculative process within the body. By simply drinking the "life-water", also called "wisdom water". Arousing from the stones it may also explain the mythical "white stone of wisdom" - without the need of mysterious abstractions.

We may still find elements of this very priciple actually existing - at the base of old "headon" traditions, such as the Yogic, Tantric and Taoistic schools of wisdom. But after a millenia of catholic regime this knowledge was completly erradicated from the we4stern hemisphere. Even today do we find this topic difficult, embarassing or prejudiced. And not even the moist learned historians are able to give a founded and logic explaination to the mentioned rock-carvings and paintings - showing a number of aroused maledoms dancing around poles or fires.

Not to wonder that even young intelectuals still have a difficult time accepting the specifications of the Bocksaga; telling that not only did all men usually keep and cheerish their sperm as the manifesto of their inherited genuinity, vitality and wisdom. Not only did they drink their sperm to recirculate and reinforce this qualities, - but at occasions they even shared their individual qulities by sharing their sperm.

Today we may "share" a bottle - of beer, wine or liquor. But some of us have to be unconsciously drunk to even accept the possibility that two brothers or best friends - during the festival high-light of the pagan culture - could share a "natural high" - exchanging their "wisdom-water". It MAY seem strange, or even very strange, to us. But so does also our sexual taboos - and their resulting promiscuity, side-by-side with a quite funny "drug- and alchohol-culture".

It is hardly any evidence against the Bocksaga when it tells about theese "cultural traditions" of the pre-religious societies of ancient Eurasia.

Due to OUR hang-ups may the genuinity, the logic and the completeness of the Bocksaga be difficult to comprehend - not to say accept. At first. But keeping an open mind -at a second or even third reading - it may dawn on one that this saga-story is something different than a exiting myth, and exotic legend or a fabolous story. It may be the genuine result of an authentic, oral tradition - comprehended, kept and contributed by the most cultually councious and conservative family of the entire Finnish-speaking area.

---

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2008, 03:07:30 am »

As I have explained already; there have been concrete, hands-on information given by this Saga - during the years of 1984-87 -that sounded completly "unbelievable" - or even "impossible". Though; later discoveries - within geology, archaeology, biology and genetics - have actually proven theese "incredible" statements to be rigth. And then we may include late discoveries that have caugth the entire scientific community by surprise...

---

Now I am waiting for the geneticians answer to the puzzle of Darwins "missing link" - to explain how the monkey evoluted to become man. Before further research gets closer to an answer it may really be a stupid mistake to rule out the statement of the Bocksaga - claiming that the first human beeings - once upon the time - evolved as a cross-breed between a monkey and a nanny-goat.

What if some genetic research-team found this combination to be "possible", not to say "likely". Would we bother to change our minds then? Or would we still insist that the idea is "just to stupid to be true" ?! Who and what is really stupid - one may just wonder...


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 03-10-2004).]

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2008, 03:07:47 am »

Faravid
New Member posted 03-11-2004 14:20
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Hi Boreas,
I would like to just comment to some things you have mentioned. I agree with you that some of the commonly thought "Swedish" names on the Finnish coast are older than the invasions by the Christian Swedes or Danes. For example the paganic name Odensö is good example, but there are many more. On the western coast (a little north-west of the city Turku) we can also find even today "Aasaland" (Aasamaa). Could they be names given by the pagan Vikings? Perhaps, as (not only in the Sweden but also) in the Finland exists old tales which even name the actual Viking settlers on the Finnish coast. We of course must not think that this denys the option that some Finns already spoke the Swedish or "Root" language. For example some Nordic tales claim that some of the Viking dynasties originated from the Finland. In addition the Finland's Swedish is not pronounced like Swedish, but instead similarly like in the Gotland. This was surprise to me, as I didn't believe it until I saw one document about people of the Gotland. Now it's interesting as the historians tell us that the Swedish speaking population arrived from the Sweden, not from the Gotland. (Could there be a connection between the Go(a)tland and the many "bock" named place names at the southern coast of Finland?).
About the Rig. As you are probably aware it's commonly believed that the Rig is actually the same mythological person as the Heimdaller (a Viking god taking part in the Ragnarök). Again quoting the before mentioned Kristfrid Ganander it's interesting to note what he tells us about the Heimdaller:

"Heimdaller, priest of wisdom in Finland at the manor house of the Island [Saari]."

(Kristfrid sees here connection between the word "Saari" and the names "Czaar", "Caesar", "Aesar" etc.)

I personally haven't heard from anywhere else that the Viking god Heimdaller would have been actually a real living person in Finland. But it's not at all surprising to me hear so because relatively lately I have found many bits of information (from a very different sources) telling about connections between mythological Viking gods and the ancient Finnish royals. This all has not - yet - been approved by any Finnish historians as they still, for some odd reason, 'officially' consider Finns as some kind of unorganized barbarians surrounded by civilized Vikings and Russians...

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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2008, 03:07:56 am »

via mars
Member posted 03-11-2004 16:22
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and to the east of gotland we have goteberg which i believe, is south of gotaland. gotaland is northeast of copenhagen. so what's up with all the gotas (goats)?
sounds suspiciously like the egyptian minotaurs and other weird creatures ... maybe those creatures existed afterall?
tarkin - elephants that swim, cobras, tigers, it's all their in ceylon. must mean that land bridge theory is correct?
one of earth's great accomplished humans, arthur c. clarke, found paradise and more when he lived out his last days there ...
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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2008, 03:08:10 am »

tarkin22180
Member posted 03-12-2004 09:31
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I saw a National Geographic special about the "swimming elephants". I would not have believed it until I saw it. Amazing!
Also, I recall reading on the internet that an ancient Indian myth said there was a road, city, etc. Those myths say a lot about other topics too. Especially the flying machines.
I love Arthur C Clarks's work!

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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2008, 03:08:22 am »

Sadie
Member posted 03-14-2004 14:12
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A "lost continent" smack dab in the center of the known world? No more far-fetched than a lost continent in the Black Sea, the Mediterainian or north Africa, I s'pose.
Has anyone (in this forum) ever read the sanskrit vedas and upanishads?
The Chinese "discovered" Atl Antis more than ten thousand years ago - were driven off by the Atl Antian Air Force and forbidden to sail in that direction EVER again!




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« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2008, 03:08:44 am »

Boreas
Member posted 03-15-2004 10:02
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Thanks for inspiring tips and informative comments!
Via Mars;
I am sorry to admit I do not know the works of Lloyd Pye. Any web-adress?!
Riven/Via;
The geological and geophysical history of our planet is still far from complete. One major reason for the difficulty of modern geology is the eradications and "cataclysmical" changes created just before, under and at the very end of Ice-time, when enormous glaciers started moving - to reach the oceans...

Consequently it is difficult to state exact lines of age, tectonical history and movements of/under or beside the different
areas that we may wish to investigate. One such example is the essential question about ice-time; When did it start? How? And how far did the ice-caps reach - on it maximum size?
Another question still not solved is this;
How could the warm gulf-stream reach the Baltic area already 500.000 years ago - if the global ice-cap covered all of Norway-N orth Sea and Scotland? Via the English Channel? Yes, - but also this area was different at this time - since Holland and England where connected. But - inside of Holland there where yet another lowland - that used to be UNDER water. So it may very well be that the way of the Gulf-stream, pressing northwards from Biscaya, had a different route than today - and that the "English chanel" use to further east.
But - since the hot mexican water indeed have reachede Denmark, Sweden and the Baltics - DURING the entire period of the ice-time (acording to coral-reeves found in Denmark and Gotland).

Thus a reference to some old Geologists opinion - that the English Channel once where completly closed - and the Baltic Ocean a closed sweetwater Sea - has changed ultimatly with the dsicoveries of the 1990`s - as refered earlier (see above).

So it is obvious that the surface of our planet - with the thickness like the skin over one apple - have the ability to adjust, much like the baloon. When it gets pressured at one point it adjusts by swelling somewhere else. So when two enormous ice-caps appeared on the both northern and the southern polar areas, the impact on the earths surface have been quite dramatic. And there is still much to investigate and research to clarify these matters.

Consequently we have to keep a very balanced view on statements of older research and science. Especially if we refere to "public knowledge" - and not to specific repports; we should keep in mind that conventional books and sources regulary have to change and correct their basic opinions and "facts" evry 20th years...

Tarkin;
Focused on Nordic history and Norse Mythology I have not more than briefly heard about the works of Ignatius Donally; on Atlantis, the origin of the phonetic alphabet, etc.

It was indeed impressing how deep an understanding this man have to the core-elements of these questions. A comparision to the mentioned Bocksaga is simply a great inspiration and eye-opener. Thanks for the tip! The following site contains it all; www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ataw/index.htm

Acid;
You may need to have a critical look on Your etymythological sources of understanding. To be able to deal with the questions of linguistical origins and root-associations You may need a more exstensive curriculum than the avarage academian. On what basis are Your statements resting; such as the one telling that the saga-material contains HUGE mistakes in interpretating the fenno-swedish language, as well as its history?
May it be that the conventional understanding are leading You to believe that IT is rigth and this "alternative stuff" MUST be wrong?!

For instance: Take a very simple and well known fenno-swedish word, say: "JUL". What`s its general meaning? What may be its root/stem? How did it occur to bear those meaning(s)?

Sadie;
I think the Pi-King-people had a solid branch rigth up there in the Himalayas during some millenias of the ice-time. Thus they adjusted quite much to the cold and windy climate of the higher and more northern side of the mountains. Today we know them as monguls/mongolian and tibetan.

We also know that the monguls found a paveway heading straigth north through the enormous ice-cap that used to cover all of northern Russia. This paveway was created by the Ural mountains - and the Himalayans could find their way to the arctic ocean. This may have happened some 8-10.000 years ago. About 6000 years ago this new branch of monguls was established by the arctic ocean - from where they spread east and west, creating TWELVE different tribes around the North pole, as we still recognize as inuits, eskimos, samis, etc.
But it may be - that the very first emigrants to the Kara Ocean and The White Sea area was denied permanent setling by the Altlantis-popolation - that occupied this area already 40.000 years (or more) ago.

But it sure is correct that the Piking-Monguls found and connected with the Caucasians trapped in the Arctic/Baltic
area before any other tropical where able to visit the high north...

---

I`ll get back to Kaukamoinen and some other highly interesting apsects - a.s.a.p. Have a nice day or evening!




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Janna Britton
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« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2008, 03:09:00 am »

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via mars
Member posted 03-15-2004 11:17
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i have a sneaky feeling that the next great repository of ancient "things" will be unearthed deep in the jungles of the old tea colony - ceylon.
unless we get to mars first!
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2008, 03:09:19 am »

Sadie
Member posted 03-15-2004 13:35
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Ah, yes, the one-way land bridge! Quite interesting that the oldest known human-built habitat is at the tip of Tierra del Fuego; AND that the present day inhabitants of the region share DNA codex with only one people - who happen to be from Mongolia...
I KNEW I was gonna dig this forum!
love&light2all,S

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« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2008, 03:09:35 am »

via mars
Member posted 03-15-2004 13:51
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boreas - if you're so inclined:
lloydpie.com
for what it's worth ...
hi sarah - you sure have some ecclectic interests. welcome to our humble adobe!

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2008, 03:09:59 am »

via mars
Member posted 03-15-2004 18:02
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but you're not sarah are you? anyway, interesting points you have made here and there.
on to other things ... our backyard sure has had some wild things going on in mid-ancient times. heck, the jury's still out on dinos, indians, and other "non-european" viewpoints pertaining to north america. i wonder what the australian aborigines have to say about this part of the map. (it has been a flat world until recently)
see, that's the thing that has me perpetually wondering ... white creatures from the north (us), and these fellows from across the orb. they know a lot of ****. ancient stuff - and they're way cool about nature. stars? heck, they know a lot about them too. but, without a telescope. go figure.
anyway, just a few things to ponder.

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Boreas
Member posted 03-15-2004 19:17
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Sadie;
Do you have some more info (reference) to the habitat of Tierra del Fuego?
The old Norse sailors used to call it "Ildlandet" (The Land of Fire)- as it may still be called in Scandinavia.
Do You say that the indigenius Chileans are proven to be of Tibetan/Chineese origin?!
Please elaborate!


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tarkin22180
Member posted 03-16-2004 09:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm speculating, but it is possible that when the Northern Icecap was at the Hudson Bay location (circa 12,000 years ago), the artic ocean was probably the source of the "warm stream" of water mentioned in the Bock Saga. There would be no Bering Strait (sea levels a lot lower), making the artic ocean a closed body of water. Like the Gulf of Mexico, this would make it quite warm. And there is a deep path between Greenland and Spitzbergen for the current to flow.
LOL, it is called the Boreas Plain according the map I looked at.

Though how it could get the Gulf of Finland I do not know. The stream would warm the coast of Norway; therefore, all of Scandinavia would be warmed.

Relative to the Hudson Bay pole, Finland would go from 60 latitude to 40 latitude. This is where Spain and Greece are today, quite mild. The mountains of Norway would offer a barrier to the cold north winds. Another plus for a mild Finland climate.

Gee, sounds a bit like Plato's description of Atlantis eh? Ah, but the Trans-Antarctic mountains would do the same! My support of Atlantis in Antarctica is viable!

John


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Janna Britton
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« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2008, 03:10:25 am »

Sadie
Member posted 03-16-2004 14:33
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If what we're looking for is - i.e. 'was' - an empire that is at least hinted at and more often spoken openly of and even called by name by virtually every culture on the planet, we ought to be finding evidence of it everywhere; and we are!
Sure, there are gonna be tiny minded persons with their preconceptions, prejudices and pet theories who will always refuse to see the trees for the forest, but once inna while somebody's gonna stop, stoop and take a whif of the flower(s) of reality.
Patagonians descended from Mongols? Maybe. Maybe the other way around, though. Think differently, 'cause thinking the same olde way is only gonna lead you to the same olde conclussions.

Here are some links from my bookmarks that ought to have the DNA info re. Patagonia: http://www.tracegenetics.com/index.html http://www.comic.sbg.ac.at/staff/jan/ancient/logo.htm http://users.mstar2.net/spencersa/evolutus/index.html

(&@many more to list here! happy hunting!)

A continent in the middle of THE ocean...

Oceanographers have proven that there is only ONE ocean on our planet - that the GulfStream gyre that flows from the meteor crater we call the Gulf of Mexico up the east coast of Vespucciland, across the North Sea, then down the west coast of Europia, continues to traverses the Pacific and Indian oceans before heading back up the west coast of Africa.

A continent in the middle of the Atl Antic ocean would practically connect south Vespucci with Africa - but a continent in the middle of THE ocean would BE south Amerika...

n'est ce pas?


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Janna Britton
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« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2008, 03:10:41 am »

Boreas
Member posted 03-16-2004 18:32
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There was only one page o be found; the publication "Ancient Biomolecules", nr. 1, page 43-54.
Well, this site is "brougth to us" by the old and distinguished university of Oxford.
And to gain acess You need to be a "MEMBER" of course. Paying, seemingly.
Any chance You could give us an accurate adress of an open source, Sadie?!
Sure would apreciate it...

Best regards,

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« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2008, 03:10:56 am »

Boreas
Member posted 03-16-2004 19:50
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HI Faravid,
I think you are pretty close to a lot of essential questions to ask - if we are to figure out the real and true relevance of the ancient Eur-asian traditions, legends and myhologies.
In the midle of the old, arctic world we still find Finland in the geographical, etnological and linguistical centre. It may even seem logic that Finland - both historically as today - have defined and connected the "far east" with "the way west". Still we may find the famous "Blueroad" ("Sininen Intje") crossing Fenno-Scandia, from Helsinki to westcoast Norway...
It may be as logic that this very Finish "sub-continent" have been the very centre of the old, original arctic population. And there is no doubt that both Anglo-Saxon, Frankish, Celtic, Roman, Greek, Arabic AND Norse legends are all mentioning, if not pointing to the northernmost lands, as a place of cultural significance.
Thus it is very funny how Finnish historians still insist that their own ancestors "actually" where pretty savage and uncivilized, with no clue about the culture of their imediate surroundings. Not long ago the high-school graduate had to know that "Finland, during the Viking-time was a "dark corner of Scandinavia"", where; "The population had only simple, occasional setlements and survived by moving after their main prey-animals..."
I could undestand if the Swedes - always competing their eastern neighbours - in a sudden attack of cheuvinism could have created such a stigmatized picture of the ancient Finn. Unfortunately - it is more serious than that.

This stigmata once originated by a hostile, Catholic conqueror, arriving between 1050 and 1250, as the regin of Finland finally gave up to Rome, as the last "headon" (read; "free" or "independent") kingdom in all of Eurasia. From that time on both the Norse and the Finnish cultures - and their history - got heavily stigmatized, distorted and destructed, - to be exchanged with black Roman collars, latin monoteism and a harshly disiplining, emperial rule introducing common, annual tax...

Today - soon 500 years after the rennesaince and the reformation - one could expect that also Finnish Historians had discovered the rich legacy of Finish archaeology to imply a new and different view on these basic views on their very own roots.

But - unlike other Nordic countries - it doesnt seem that the Finish historians are willing to make the effort and do the (intelectual) work neccesary to review the old, stigamtic pictures of themselves, i.e. their own history.
I do understand that it may be uncomfortable to change ones mind. I may even understand that it may be discomforting to change anything at all. But - I have also experienced the end result of an intelectual and communicative stand-still. We may call that shere idiosyncracy, i.e. stupidity.

So - Farvid, until Finnsih academia cares to investigate this saga-material or the archaeological evidences, - we may just wonder; If "stupidty" is a sign of lazyness or fear, what may the sisu-expression "idiotic stupidity" imply?
And, by the way, which of theese to conditions would be the most Finnish...?

Best regards!


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