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Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files by Rockessence

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 02:56:14 am »

Brig
Moderator posted 02-05-2004 15:26
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Ok Guys get real.
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« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2008, 02:56:24 am »

Boreas
Member posted 02-06-2004 13:33
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Ok Brigg; Isn`t authentic photos REAL enough? Isn`t the photos of www.bocksaga.de REAL evidence that this saga-material REALLY exist? Or do You REALLY think I have abilities beyond comprehension - that is needed to just make this thing up?!
If You just happend to come across a story far bigger, much more complex and chrono-logically build than Tolkiens collected works - wouldn`t You say the magnitude of the material itself clearly indicates it must be dwelling on some REALITY?!
[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 02-06-2004).]
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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2008, 02:56:40 am »

Brig
Moderator posted 02-06-2004 21:43
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Why,do you think Tolkein was writing about a real place? I assure you he wasn't. Like I said, until you started crossing nanny goats with monkeys, you were making some sense. Then blamo, you come up with that assinine notion. Or perhaps I was misreading you? Perhaps the nannygoat and monkey were symbolic of something else?
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2008, 02:57:19 am »

Brig
Moderator posted 02-06-2004 21:51
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The photos are not without interest. But so far it simnply shows that a people constructed an underground area for habitation. You can find like structures around the world. You need stronger artifactual evidence. Were tools, ornaments, writings found in any of these areas?
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« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2008, 02:57:30 am »

Boreas
Member posted 02-07-2004 12:10
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Dear Brig,
1. In what scientific context does the word "assinine" belong?
2. The point with the hallway - already excavated - in Finland is simply this:

2.1 After centuries in private secrecy the family-saga revealed the exact location of this hallway in 1987. As You know by know this saga contains loads of historical and mythological information, also a exstensive story of "Atlantis" - explaining - in scientific TERMS - its origin and history.

2.2 To prove the validity of the whole saga-material the orator was pointing out a specific place in the Finish woodlands - in 1987 - where the entrance to this hallway should exist.

2.3 When his english/american friends wanted to see it they started excavating. And as You also know - during a major excavation a large hallway was indeed found. After five summers of work a 70 metres long - 4x5 metres wide hallway have indeed been excavated!

3. There is obviously "something" there. And thats the whole point - so far.
The statement of an entrance was proven rigth. The statement of a hallway was proven rigth. So what does this reality imply concerning the statements made about the inner end of this hallway - being an ancient temple, etc.? Worth consideration? Worth further investigation (excavation)?

The mere existence of this hallway have proven - beyond any doubt - that the orator have proven to be rigth - as far as he has been able to - or ALLOWED to - present his proofs.

4. Not only have this hallway emerged from the woodland, but also other and more recent discoveries have been proven that this family-saga must be substantial. One example beeing the statement (of 1984/85) that Finland had been populating DURING ice-time.

4.1 Througout the 1980-ties that was a completly "ridicolous" statement in the ears of contemporary science. And as late as 1995 Finish arhaeologist where completly refusing such a thougth, stating that "there where absolutely no reason to suggest that there have been people surviving in Finland before the end of ice-time, 10.000 years ago".

4.2 Now that very same year the (by now) famous Wolfcave was found. Three years later it was conclusivly proven (by Finish AND German lab-tests) that the Wolfcave contained cultural remains that ranged between 9.000 and 280.000 years. The tools, etc. here found can be viewed at www.nba.fi/wolfcave.

4.3 Now how could this presise, most incredible "foretelling" be explained?!?
How could a highly local family-saga, based on the OLD oral method of the Norse Saga-tradition, contain this astounding information?! And what does that IMPLY about the validity of this peculiar source?
Any answers, Brig?

4.4 On a neighbouring thread in this Forum somebody just used the well-known qote: "Those who have ears may hear, those who have eyes may see." Rigthly so. Not to say that all who have their good brain left may understand...

5. The mythologies, the sagas and the ancient remains of the world is there. And a lot more is to be discovered and investigated scientifically for the first time - thanks to the technical instruments that just have been developed - in our day and age.

5.1 During the last years development in this area a unknown Finish Saga have risen to prove its genuine authencity, probably of "immense" significance as its align incredibly well with the recent, but more famous descriptions made by Thomson and Cremo in their works about "Forbidden Archaeology".

6.0 When I refer to JRR Tolkien it is merely to point to the fact that he based all of his litterate works on the remains he could find from the N-European sphere.

As You may know the so-called "folklore-material" are ALL based on oral traditions - at some point collected in books. The remains from continental Europe and England are rather poor, since the monopolistic culture of the Catholic church seiously prohibited ANY information accept its own - that were only kept in latin.

6.2 At the end of the clerical regime over European culture, as the classical academias where allowed some freedom; there were only small fragments ("legends") of the old wisdom kept in Europe. Only in the Nordic countries could the 19th century scholar find pockets of information from a "non-christian" culture, - and they where all hidden in legends found only in the remote islands of the Atlantic, the remote mountains of Norway/Sweden or the deep woodlands of Finland, Carelia and Russia.

6.3 The only exception from mainland Europe and England was the legends kept by some of the old families descending from the pre-christian elite, namely some royal and some noble families. But, since start of the inqvisition (aqvisating goods for their mercy) and the massacre of the nobility known as Templars the surviving noblility of Europe had to keep any knowledge of this kind highly secret. Only in the more remote parts could the peasant familes keep some of this traditions - and than only as fairy-tales. As You may know even the Norse sagas was saved only by a handfew books - that got saved by secrecy.

6.4 Within the old Finish nobility there was TWO families that was able to understand the importance of keeping the old histories intact. So by 1248 they very counsciously kept the old tradition within their families - in complete discretion from ANY others. Not even the neighbours would get to know. If only the suspicion would arise within their own (swedish-catholic) churh - the whole family could risk persecution. Consequently this great secret had to be kept until Finland once again was to become a free and independent kingdom - which did not occur before 1917...

6.5 The legends and myths of the Finish and the Carelian countryside lived on in local gatherings though, along with some old (headon) traditions, such as Father Christmas, The Easter Egg, The May Pole, etc.

6.6. So when Tolkien - as well as other 20th century historians - wanted to recreate a European mythos, they had to turn to the Norse Sagas and the Finish legends to have anything at all..! Luckily, here they could get A understanding of what had been the basis of also the English and the European mythologies.

6.7 Tolkien became incredibly found of the Finish Myths as they had "flavoures and tastes" that did not exist (anymore) in the western part of Northern Europe. To get the best possible "taste" he even took the trouble to learn the Fenno-Ugrian language - to be able to read the original texts - which he compared to "finding a completly new wine, or even 3-4 different, completly unknown wines".

6.8 Consequently we may conclude what most litterate-students know; The basis of Tolkiens mythological world was found in the Norse and Finish myths. And they - in turn - are based on historical realities - as are any authentic mythology, rigth?!

7.0 Today a growing body of collected material from different old cultures are made available - even in english. Simultaniously the natural sciences are giving us much more and better information from archaeological sites around the globe. Meanwhile molecular biology are giving us another reference to add to the picture. And sites like this are now collecting information from different professions adressing one and the same issue.

The question rigth now is if we - the citizens of this day and age - do have the abilities needed to comprehend, understand and apreciate theese newly discovered realms of history. My belief is that readers of Atlantis Rising and participants of this Forum will be among the first to REALY get the zest of it. Wheter You like the smell of goats or not...!


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 02-07-2004).]

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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2008, 02:57:42 am »

Brig
Moderator posted 02-07-2004 14:22
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My main bone of contention, which you did not explain, was this inbreeding of a nanny goat and monkey. If you reread my posts, I said you were making pretty good sense up to that point. It was kinda like Plato ending his Atlantis story with "Zeus gathered together all the gods and had them assign Donald Duck to a rein terror on the peoples of Atlantis". Explain the goat-monkey bit.
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2008, 02:57:59 am »

Boreas
Member posted 02-07-2004 16:27
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The different mythologies that we hold to authentic have all a story about our origin. They need to have - since the "Story about The People" (etc.) have to start with an explanation of "The Beginning".
In the Norse prose - from Iceland - the first people is comming from a cow, licking on two stones of salt. There are different ways of looking at this myth - but there may be a link from the myth to the reality of the first agricultural people that spread throughout the northern hemisphere.
In the much deeper, more complex and broad Saga from Finland there is an explanation
of how "Life" occured on this planet. The information about this - and the further evolution - is quite incredible in its detail. Thus it should be refuted as "speculations" - if it wasn`t for the fact that it all co-relates step by step with modern science`s outline of the evolution in nature. The details of information can is meticiously built in one structure that can even be referenced by the linguistical impact of the names given to the different plants and animals.

As the algea turned into plants and animals we get sexual breeding. The animals takes two directions as they carry their soft-tissue either inside a capsule or outside a (bone-)structure. Thus we get reptiles AND mammals, not neccesarily one only.

Modern biology have got quite far into understanding the general principles of evolution, - but there is still much unknown about the history of its different stages back in time. We have to keep in mind that such research was not possible until the late 19th century - and even Darwin and Wallace did not dare to publish their work before the very end of their lives, due to the obvious stigmatizatiopn they would suffer from the "moral majority" of their time.

The natural sciencce of biology is - in princip - still a young profession. But the questions at hand are as old as the human beeing. And before most philosophy got abstraction and politics - during mid-eval time - there was obviously existing both real knowledge and logical explanations to the magnitude of life present on our planet.

According to this old wisdom - as it is refered in the Bocksaga - there was a evolutionary leap fron the alge to the eel to the frog. Now the frog turned into a full mammal that by time and evolution created higher species, resulting in the monkey. Another line created the hoof-animals where the goat turned out the most adaptive - or the most fitting - fourlegged animal.

The degree of adaption seem to be connected to the degree of brain capacity, what we generally call inteligence. The Bocksaga explicitly recall the most important stages of this evolution - in what we may call "scientific" terms (stringent, logical reason). And it does explicitly say that it one time happened that a monkey (succesfully)copulated with a nanny-goat, breeding a twin-couple that not only lived, but where able to copulate and - most importantly - recreate. Thus nature had - once again - created a new specie...

Since nobody have had any possibility to create such a theory out of present scientific data, it must be more than interesting to investigate this matter through molecular biology. As far as I know that still remains to be done. Until our present geneticians care to do some adequate research of this matter there is litle or nothing to add to the matter.

Except - of course, that geneticans resently concluded that there is a clear link between goats and dolphins. Genetically it seems that dolphins have arrived from goats, which implies that a branch from a higher land-mammal have returned to the shores of the ocean and further into the deep blue...

As others have commented here - there are a number of references in other myths that does point in the same direction. And we should not be surprised to learn that there actually was an earthly creature performing the function needed to jump from monkey to man.

Wouldn`t it be nice if a mythology - i.e. information from our ancient schools of knowledge - actually could answer the question about the "missing link"? I still do not see what might be so ridiculous about the nanny-goat...


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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2008, 02:58:16 am »

Brig
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What is so ridiculus is the fact, a very firm fact, that it would be a physical impossiblity for a goat to breed with a monkey. Or that such a breeding would produce anything alive or anything...period. If you wish to push this theory of northen evolution in human terms, you had best forget the goat and monkey.
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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2008, 02:58:30 am »

rajesh
Member posted 02-08-2004 06:49
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Respected DB:
QUOTE>> Didn`t evolution explain the white race? Man living in the colder climates for 20,000 years, made the mellon in the skin turn white and made the noses close up Rajash answer my question, as to why the Asian eyeslids are swollen and narrow. From migating and battling the colder climates. Makes sense to me. <<UNQUOTE
Here I expect that by Asians, you specifically mean the Mongols. Their narrow eyelid slits can be an outcome of their exposure for some/many thousands of years to the DRY and perennially surrounding icy locations. This change could have been evolved to safeguard the internals of their eyes from the glare of ice or “white blindness”. This effect could have been more prominent during the Ice-Ages. Also it could have been more prominent on the Siberian side of the North Pole due to presence of relatively larger land masses (including now sunken Atlantis!) on the eastern side of the Globe.

The distinct yellowness underneath their white skin also points to some additional and unusual vitamin A storage capacity, that is not available to other races. This may indicate that they were getting their Vitamin A from the liver and meat and not from the milk etc. Also the antelope livers were intermittent and short in supply on those icy surroundings and so the body had to develop the mechanism for their storage of Vit-A. Their relatively developed calf muscles can also indicate their living originally at the northern side of Himalayan peaks during the same ice ages. I mean they faced the combination of mountainous peaks, constant icy glare and the dry ice.

Whiteness can be a common feature of cold, reduced intensity of sun rays and thermal radiation and Vitamin-D deficiency in the surroundings. So that the body coverts more and more of sun rays into Vitamin D. This can be more justified for the vegetarians than the non-vegetarians.

Whiteness of Europeans can be a somewhat different story. They were to be exposed to cold but with WET Ice and wet surroundings. They could have originated at the slopes and surroundings of Himalayas during the Ice Ages. Then they could have stayed for long near the wet regions of Caspian Sea. Then they could have migrated to North West Europe and Western side of North Pole. Here due to open proximity of Atlantic Ocean, abundance of wetness can be expected. Also the milk and liver can be available in relatively larger quantities. So no yellowness in skin due to Vit-A availability and no narrow eye slits due to reduced icy glare. Here further increase in skin whiteness due to reduced Vit-D from sun rays can be expected.

The blue colored eyes and golden hairs can be the mutation as a resultant of reduced UV radiation during the Ice Ages. Theoretically this could have affected equally to both the European and Mongol variants. However narrower Mongol eyelid slits could have been less exposed and so less prone to mutations arising out of variations in the UV radiation levels. Also the black Mongol hairs would not have altered much to golden hairs as the dryness in air does not support weak hairs.

So most of the things may be dependent on “Dry White Blindness Vs Wet Ice”, Exposure to UV radiation, Vit A & D deficiencies etc.

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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2008, 02:58:54 am »

indy
New Member posted 02-08-2004 13:13
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We have numerous stories and even pictures of normal men copulating with various cattle such as cows, sheep and nannygoats.
Why should it be impossible for a monkey to do the same?
The question is whether a fulfilled copulation between a monkey and a nannygoat could produce an alive fetus, a living being?
This is a different statement than saying that it may "rain cats and dogs".
We should not be deceived by the fact that this question - contrary to cats and dogs- is brandnew for all of us.
It is wellknown that a horse and a donkey can produce a mule. It is likewise known that mules never reproduce.
Recently it was reported that mules have occured that can reproduce themselves.
If a number of monkeys is copulating with a number of goats one combination may occur that really is able to breed living kids.-
It might be more phantastic if such kids would be able to reproduce themselves.
But such wonders are the trenchmarks of all evolutionary leaps.
kind regards...


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« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2008, 02:59:01 am »

rockessence
Member posted 02-08-2004 19:39
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One must ponder just how long have we been calling our children "kids"?? The saga seems to reveal a myriad of words on many subjects that connect to commonly used language. I am thrilled to read "Homer in the Baltic" on www.bocksaga.de by Vinci.
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« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2008, 02:59:14 am »

rockessence
Member posted 02-09-2004 19:42
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Another thought....in how many places across the world is the grandmother called "Nana" "Nanna" "Nani" and the one who cares for the "kids" is called the "nanny"Huh
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« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2008, 02:59:32 am »

Boreas
Member posted 02-13-2004 10:50
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There are indeed a lot of controversial stuff in the mentioned Bocksaga. Even to non-conventional scientists and people.
At the same time the open-minded layman can find a lot of obvious and highly interesting material for NEW thougth and reflection. Although "new" to us - it is evident that the source for this material is quite old - as it is keeping track of key-elements in our older languages.
According to the genetican John Richards at the Univ. of Huddersfield (GBR) the oldest populations in todays Europe is to be found in Scandinavia, where they came "more that 10.000 years ago".

Brand new archeological evidences from both Norway, Finland and Russia actually states (with 100 % scientific proofs) that modern man inhabitated the northernmost area of the Fenno-Scandic shield DURING ice-time, i.e. 10-40.000 years ago.

The discovery of a peculiar setlement in Finland are now under hot discussion, since it contradicts the common opinion (read: theory) that modern man emigrated out of Africa about 70.000 years ago - to reach Europe about 40.000 years ago. The finding of Susiluola ("The Wolf Cave"), 30 km outside the Finish city of Kristinestad contains human remains more that 280.000 years old. See; www.nba.fi/wolfcave.

Since the general opinion of biology "states" that mankind at this point where not evolved to homo sapiens sapiens yet, the conclusion of the Finish archaeologists and historians are keeping "due course" announcing that the Susisluola was inhabitted by Neanderthals.
Though there are NO technical evidence found to substantiate that statement. On the contrary; experts on the Neanderthals from sourthern Germany and Cro-Magnon of southern France and Spain both have determined that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons where NOT able to conduct an arctical life. This have even been used as an explanation to why the Neanderthals and the Cro- Magnons "disappeared" - to the benefit of "modern man".

Consequently the recent discoveries from Fenno-Scandia, - of both biological and archaological as cultural nature - are obviously more in tune with the controversial material recently presented by Michael Cremo and Ron L. Thompson. Thus we may have to admit that conemporary science still is in the mist about the REALITY of out origin and history on this planet.

When the Finish Saga refers the legend of Atlantis in a most delibrate way it may be our duty to give it a "fair call" and an objective investigation.
One point I already have made is the fact that Fenno-Scandia during ice-time was an ISLAND (rather than a penninsula) - as the ocean passed from the Finish Bay over Ladoga and Onega to the White Sea. Thus the survivors of the cataclysmic end of the ice-time would say they "came from an island, larger than Libya and Asia together..." as the Greek/Egyptian sources are telling.

The later stories from the Homeric litterature are now pointing in the same direction - documented with a solid and convincing material by the italian Dr. Felipe Vinci. That Dr. Vincis conclusions are highly controversial doesn`t change the matter that he has been revealing hard, new facts on theese old matters.

We can`t change the history of the earth, of life and of humankind. But we may be able to change our understanding of it.
During the last century alone the general understanding of the age of man have changed a number of times - starting with some 6-7000 years (since "Adam and Eve") and ending with todays ASSESMENT of 5-6 million years, since "Homo habilis". And - by the way - the explanations of the origin, cause, course and effects of the Gulf-stream have also changed dramatically over the last decades. Not to mention the history of the ice-time. And both theese topics are still not being finally and completly understood. Just ask any serious and professional geologist.

During the last century modern science have gone through numerous aletrations and changes in their opinions about the origin of man. Thus it should not be too difficult to understand that OUR presumptions - that we often hold as facts - again will change. The mentioned discoveries are indeed pointing to that we - again - will have to re-examine the basic understanding of our own history, in - yet another - new ligth.

Have a good and reflective week-end!


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 02-14-2004).]

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« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2008, 02:59:50 am »

Boreas
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Dear Rajesh,
Could the loss of pigmentation - creating blue-green eyes and pale-white skin - have happened to the population that we KNOW lived in the Baltic - isolated during ice-time?
What about the extra-ordinary adjustment to milk-fat and -proteins? Would not that pre-clude an "evolutionary" process of consuming milk-products?

[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 02-13-2004).]

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« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2008, 03:00:04 am »

rajesh
Member posted 02-13-2004 17:55
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Respected Boreas:
Anywhere in North from Scotland to Finland could have been the apex and mass production center for the loss of pigmentation accompanied with the blue green eyes. This phenomenon had to be Non-Mongolian and so Baltic could be the region due to presence of relatively higher wetness. If some group lived there, long enough in isolation, then these genetic trends and mutation could have got higher amount of stability. However that may still leave the question open regarding the original place of these mutations.
All other Mongolian phenomenon could have reached to their zenith on the Siberian side.

Regarding the milk tolerance factor, I think that the peoples who had ancient connections genetically or culturally with the shepherds, cattle owners, Gaderias, Yadvas, Ahirs etc. can be expected to be the milk tolerant. This I feel to be some ancient Atlantean legacy. On the other end of this scale, the people who appear to be milk-intolerant may be basically sea-food dependent or dependent on meat and soft bones of the wild animals. Regarding Vitamin-D, I think that the sun rays are essential for its effective assimilation in the body and the pale white skin may permit it more and more.

So I consider that the evolutionary process of milk consumption and pulse eating has passed through the ventury of Atlantis.

With Regards...

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