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Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files by Rockessence

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Mario Dantas
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« on: April 16, 2008, 12:15:44 pm »

I found this, while searching for the Bock Saga:

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001044.html

Nice reading! thanks Boreas for this important "Dialog", thanks Rockessence, hope you don't mind.

M

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BlueHue
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 10:50:17 am »

Dear . . . . .  MARIO,

From what I just read about the dubious unorthodox-lifestyle of the BOCK- Saga-Author ,
around 2.000 ad.I have little Faith in the  BOREAS hypothesis because the HYPER-
BOREANS lived in MACROBIA their capital is  today named ' Mecca'.( since 800 ad.)

BESIDES
that Bergstrom-Boreas FAMILY" OR SOMETHING,  didn't we already have
a FALSE Boek called the OURA - LINDA Book also about ATLANTIS ?in HOLLAND/ Friesland
it was largelyweritten inbetween 1865-75 by a Dutch schoolmaster from the
provincial Capital of Leeuwarden,

who wanted to proove that the Dutch Tribe of FRISIANS were as old as :"Atlantis"
DIE HARDS still think that iot is genuine and shut their ears for the Contrary
What is YOUR opinion about that" OURA - LINANDA  BOOK ? ? ?  Huh

Sincerely " BlueHue ".
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( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
Janna Britton
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 02:46:11 am »

This is an excellent dissertation of sorts on the Bock Saga, Mario, Rockessence.  I'll bring it over so everyone can have a look.
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 02:46:28 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:23             
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Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files:
********************************************
Boreas
Member posted 01-20-2004 16:30
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Good Old News
Over the past years there has gradually occured a completly new, and hereto unknown source of genuine information about the mythical Atlantis.
The basic source is a part of the Nordic Folklore tradition, originating from the time when the Norse - as well as other Indo-Europeans - kept their historical and cultural identity alive and evolving, - by an ongoing oral tradition.

Before a surpressing latino writng-culture expanded all over the Eurasian continent; all pagan people did keep a culture of ORAL TRADITION. Today NONE of this culture remains, except from a handfew exceptions that have survived in the remote provinces og the highest north. During the 20th century we found and catalogued such remains in the mountains of the Himalayas and the Urals, as well as the deep arctical forests of Carelia, Finland and Scandinavia.

Thus we know that the ancient societies all over Europe and Asia kept their own history, containing stories about their origin, history and identity, - and delivered to elected or choosen youngsters, with a special ability to memorize. After years of learning, practice and examination they got to be story-tellers and "wise men" for the next generation.

As any larger body of information about this world also the Nordic Myths are dwelling upon a long, ancient tradition of keeping this knowledge intact and correct.

 
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 02:46:51 am »

Just Legends?!

With the introduction of the latin "writing-culture" we may observe that the old ("pagan") sagas got undermined, distorted and even prohibited. Though we may still find fragments of the genuine stuff, - inbetween the distortions and misconceptions found in most of the sagas written down during the 12th-14th centuries.

Thus it may seem as a sheer miracle that researchers within the Science of Folklore and Traditions (antropologists) still find genuine and original information - resited by memory from old people still living in remote districts of Norway, Finland and Russia...

The most fantastic story was discovered in Finland as late as 1984-85, when a complete Family Saga was revealed. Showing to be an incredibly detailed story of our ancient antiquity theese tellings was catalogued as "The Family Saga of Strömsö Manor" by the "Archive of Folk Culture" in Helsinki.

This Saga is built around a chronological history where many incidents are already known, but most are very litle or not at all known from our public history.

Moreover the Saga explains the mere roots of the caucasian people and their culture, as originating in Fenno-Scandia during ice-time (!) And even worse; it does give a very precise, logic and detailed explanation about an ancient world-wide culture, as the common source of the European, Finnish, Asian and Indian Mythologies!

Since this have been genreally unknown to humanity and our academies, the present Nordic and Finnish Institutes of History has - not surprisingly - rejected the whole concept of such a saga; as "nonsens" and non-significant"...!
Even though it is completly documented. In interviews and dicussions even Finnish authorities have dismissed this historical legacy as "fantasies and speculations".

Lost, - But Found!

None the less have more archaeological discoveries from 1993-2002 given proof to the statements given by the saga already in 1985! One clear-cut example is the statement from the saga that; "The origin of our arctic culture evolved in the Baltic Area DURING ice-time, in a time we called "Alt-land-is", meaning "All-land-ice", because the whole Eurasian continent where covered in an enormous ice-sheet, exept from a small area around the Finnish Gulf that was kept open and warm enough for our ancestors to survive, - thanks to the Gulf-stream that used to end here at that time..." (!!!)

In 1995-96 a team of Russian and Norwegian scientists discovered a highly remarkable settlement - "from modern human beeings" - within the White Sea, where more than 40.000 years old...
Even worse did it become when a Finnish truck-driver got the rigth to dig out a cavern outside Kristinestad, on Finlands western coast. In 1995 he proved that there had been people using the cave more than 70.000 years ago!
Since than Finlands State-archeologists have been exploring about 1/8 of the cave, and by 1998-2002 it was proven that humans have lived in the "wolf-cave" for more than 280.000 years - i.e. during the coldest ice-time!!!

Yet, - the "Family-saga of Strömsö Manor" is
still not given any credit, although it is given specific information about several (unknown) artefacts to be hidden underground in Finland. One of theese is the crown and the crest of arms of the authentic Finnish Kingdom, that subdued to the religious regime of Europe (becomming part of the catholic Sweden) first in 1248.

According to the Saga this kingline, as well as their insignias and symbols originated from "As-Hel"; the arctic Kingdom of Altlandis. And as we may see on maps before 1854; the old zero-meridian (today GMT) used to run from As-Hel (todays Hel-sing-ki) to Hel-As, dividing Crete into a Eastern vs. a Western hemispheres - creating the basic culture that developed into the eastern Greek and the western Roman kingdoms as of 9000 years ago.
Thus we may understand that Alt-land-is and Atlantis is refering to the same myth, based on the same historical fact!

By today an exstensive lineout of the Bock Family Saga, - with a comprehensive description of the historical Altlandis - can be found at www.bocksaga.de.

Happy New Year!


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 01-21-2004).]

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[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 11-08-2004).]

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 02:47:20 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:31             
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Brig
Moderator posted 01-20-2004 18:22
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Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee A whole new place for Atlantis. As I've said before,"Thats Atlantis all over". Just exactly where was this At land is supposed to be located exactly....Finland? or somewhere nearby?
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Boreas
Member posted 01-21-2004 16:11
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Cheeeese Mr. Doodles?!
If You would care to read the article through - not to mention the "whole story" on www.bocksaga.de - it should become pretty clear exactly WHERE the old (primeval) arctical culture survived, evolving through an eon of time today called "ice-time".

The knowledge about this origin of the caicasian man, his languages and his culture obviously got lost - and modern etnology still can`t figure out from where the caucasian archetype orginiated.

But the recent findings in the Baltic area, explained by the ancient history of the newly documented Saga-material is actually giving a complete explanation, based on a completly scientifical step-stone logic.

Thanks to recent discoveries we do KNOW that modern man existed inside a pocket (rift) in the global ice-sheet, - between 3.000 - 5000 metres high - covering most all of North America, Northern Europe and Russia. Due to the ice sheet between Norway and Scotland the Gulf-stream was then forced eastwards, entering the Baltic Ocean, where it kept all of Gotland and the coastline of Finland ICE-FREE, while mainland Denmark, Germany, Poland and Russia was still covered by the glacier.

Only during the last 8-10 years (!) have we learned to KNOW that there actually existed human beeings inside this pocket in the ice. So far archeologists and geologists have detected 280.000 years old traces from this human culture, from the southern coast of Finland, - exactly where the Gulf stream once used to bounce it warm water...

Based on the old folklore tradition,the mentioned family-saga is a
source based on entirely different qualities than rumours, "qualified guesswork" or optimistic "creativity".

This information is a part of an age old, - and still new source on the Nordic history, going much more than 10.000 years back in time.

Consequently it reflects back through Ice-time (called Alt-land-is-period) and the following period, generally known as the "stone-age", beginning quite exactly 10.000 yrs ago, as the arctic population started spreding from the Baltics (with their "AsHel-culture") to the Black Sea/Mediterranean where the "HelAs-culture" was established about 9.200 yrs ago.

The Saga-material covers a lot more than this - like the basis of our present languages, our mythologies, etc. - all based on a still existing ancient and AUTHENTIC tradition of folklore and oral history-telling. Still today we find this original way of communicating essential and historical knowledge a few rural parts of the world - whereof some are now reknown as a part of the "World Heritage".

As with amazon indians, hopis, inuits, lapps, samojeds, ainus and aboriginees we also find remains of this tradition in the Northern countries, even in different languages(German/Scandinavian/Fenno-Ugrian).

And remember; the Nordic sagas - covering the same ancient stories - have been found within different etnic and linguistical groups, proving beyond doubt that they reflect a common, ancient reality of human history and culture.

Today this norse sagas can offer an OLD explanation of the context between the Meso-American, The Mediterranean and the Asian mythologies. It should give evident and obvious resons to consider (and perhaps reconsider) the value of the millenium old Sagas of the North.

Ironic ignorance is cheap - dumb arrogance even cheaper. The ones who care checking the whole story on the mentioned site (bocksaga.de) may return with some more valid reflections or qustions.


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 01-21-2004).]

 
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 02:47:23 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:31             
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Brig
Moderator posted 01-20-2004 18:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee A whole new place for Atlantis. As I've said before,"Thats Atlantis all over". Just exactly where was this At land is supposed to be located exactly....Finland? or somewhere nearby?
IP: 152.163.252.33
Boreas
Member posted 01-21-2004 16:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheeeese Mr. Doodles?!
If You would care to read the article through - not to mention the "whole story" on www.bocksaga.de - it should become pretty clear exactly WHERE the old (primeval) arctical culture survived, evolving through an eon of time today called "ice-time".

The knowledge about this origin of the caicasian man, his languages and his culture obviously got lost - and modern etnology still can`t figure out from where the caucasian archetype orginiated.

But the recent findings in the Baltic area, explained by the ancient history of the newly documented Saga-material is actually giving a complete explanation, based on a completly scientifical step-stone logic.

Thanks to recent discoveries we do KNOW that modern man existed inside a pocket (rift) in the global ice-sheet, - between 3.000 - 5000 metres high - covering most all of North America, Northern Europe and Russia. Due to the ice sheet between Norway and Scotland the Gulf-stream was then forced eastwards, entering the Baltic Ocean, where it kept all of Gotland and the coastline of Finland ICE-FREE, while mainland Denmark, Germany, Poland and Russia was still covered by the glacier.

Only during the last 8-10 years (!) have we learned to KNOW that there actually existed human beeings inside this pocket in the ice. So far archeologists and geologists have detected 280.000 years old traces from this human culture, from the southern coast of Finland, - exactly where the Gulf stream once used to bounce it warm water...

Based on the old folklore tradition,the mentioned family-saga is a
source based on entirely different qualities than rumours, "qualified guesswork" or optimistic "creativity".

This information is a part of an age old, - and still new source on the Nordic history, going much more than 10.000 years back in time.

Consequently it reflects back through Ice-time (called Alt-land-is-period) and the following period, generally known as the "stone-age", beginning quite exactly 10.000 yrs ago, as the arctic population started spreding from the Baltics (with their "AsHel-culture") to the Black Sea/Mediterranean where the "HelAs-culture" was established about 9.200 yrs ago.

The Saga-material covers a lot more than this - like the basis of our present languages, our mythologies, etc. - all based on a still existing ancient and AUTHENTIC tradition of folklore and oral history-telling. Still today we find this original way of communicating essential and historical knowledge a few rural parts of the world - whereof some are now reknown as a part of the "World Heritage".

As with amazon indians, hopis, inuits, lapps, samojeds, ainus and aboriginees we also find remains of this tradition in the Northern countries, even in different languages(German/Scandinavian/Fenno-Ugrian).

And remember; the Nordic sagas - covering the same ancient stories - have been found within different etnic and linguistical groups, proving beyond doubt that they reflect a common, ancient reality of human history and culture.

Today this norse sagas can offer an OLD explanation of the context between the Meso-American, The Mediterranean and the Asian mythologies. It should give evident and obvious resons to consider (and perhaps reconsider) the value of the millenium old Sagas of the North.

Ironic ignorance is cheap - dumb arrogance even cheaper. The ones who care checking the whole story on the mentioned site (bocksaga.de) may return with some more valid reflections or qustions.


[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 01-21-2004).]

 
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 02:48:07 am »

Brig
Moderator posted 01-21-2004 17:41
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Ok, The material you referenced is interesting. I have read of some of these northernly finds. But what I read referred to them as "stone age". Caucasians did not suddenly spring up from the ground. They had to have originated someplace. This whole matter can get very complex. Are these early Finns offshots of Cro-magnon man, neanderthal, or something else. This evidence dating back 300,000 years, Unless I missed something, what was it based on? Human remains 300,000 years old, yet modern in type? Now that would be a find to set palentologists on their collective ears. I fully realize oral traditions can have validy. The ancient hebrews used oral tradition for a very long time, also, before they aquired the skill of writing.
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Brig
Moderator posted 01-21-2004 17:55
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Boreas; I was not putting you or the Finn theory down. But if you had been on this site as long as I have you would understand the general skepticism. Almost every month someone comes up with a totally new location of Atlantis. Some of these people, not using anything much to back up their theories, could get wild and passionate about where they thought Atlantis was. Even on Mars....I kid you not. So, on this site, it is important to have facts to back your theories. You have a good start. Now if a gentleman named Catastrophe begins taking your theory apart, don't be insulted, be ready with facts. This is kinda the way this site is. Georgio (Atlantis in straits of Gibraltor) Sarmast (Atlantis south of Cyprus) George Erikson (Atlantis in South America) have taken and fielded some pretty tough questions and facts. This is a good place to put your theories to the test.
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Catastrophe
Member posted 01-22-2004 01:08
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Boreas
I have only begun to read your reference site but I need to have more encouragement to continue.

"The official experts at the Finnish Department of Museums and Sites still do not want to even touch this highly "controversial" story or the the extraordinary cave-system information. Instead they somewhat "fanatically" keep their official line of arguments founded in1984/85 that "Mr. Bock's Saga with the mention of a large cave-system is based merely on Mr. Bock's "fantastic fantasies". Thus, thanks to bureaucratic arrogance and scientific ignorance, it still lays uncovered: the oldest treasury chambers of the ancient, arctic kingdoms known to man, which have been alluded to as "The Kingdom of Oden" from the old Norse sagas."

Is there going to be more than spending $500,000 and giving up having found ... what exactly? Possibly an entrance to something?

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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 02:48:22 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:34             
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Catastrophe
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The wolf cave http://www.wolfcave.com/Wolf/nayttelyt.htm
IP: 213.122.213.254

Catastrophe
Member posted 01-22-2004 01:44
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"In this time that was called PARADISE people lived in harmony with naturelaws and -powers. At that time the earth's axis stood perpendicular to the sun. For this reason existed a land at the North pole with a diameter of 250km where the sun never went down but instead described a golden ring at the horizon."
Is this supposed to be legend or fact?


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Catastrophe
Member posted 01-22-2004 02:27
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Google "gulf stream" origin.
"The Norwegian Sea and the Gulf Stream are formed

The Earth’s appearance has varied throughout its history. The size and shape, both on land at sea, have changed because of the continental drift. 165 million years ago, the regions that today include America, Africa, Greenland and parts of Western Europe we joined in one huge continent. The Atlantic Ocean was formed trough a gradual breaking up of this continent. The northernmost parts of the Atlantic Ocean, the Norwegian Sea and the Greenland Sea have developed throughout the last 50 million years. The climate was considerably warmer than it is today, and the forerunners of the Gulf Stream in this "young" ocean were subtropical ocean currents. It is believed that an ocean circulation such as the one we have today was first established between 10 and 20 million years ago, when a subsidence in the region between Iceland and the Faeroe Islands caused the ocean to became deeper there. This provided an opportunity for balancing the warm water carried into the Norwegian Sea with outflowing deep water and the surface water of the East Greenland Current (Figure 1)."

That will do for a start.


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We think ourselves unhappy when a comet appears, but the misfortune is the comet's
Bernard de Fontenelle
The Plurality of Worlds (Paris 1686)



 
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2008, 02:48:56 am »

Spiritwalker
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Cool
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Boreas
Member posted 01-24-2004 13:00
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WHO INVENTED GOD?
How long was "ice-time? When did it actually start? How wide did the ice-cap reach - how much land and ocean did it cover?
And how old is the "The naked monkey"? How old is "modern" man? How far out is Desmond Morris? Not to mention Michael Cremo?

To be minuitly exact - there is still NO answers to any of the above questions. But in our day and age it just happens that we are about aproaching all of the significances nessecary to frame the answers to theese questions.

If we want to lead a sensible and productive dialog of qustions/answers its vital that we may keep ONE topic in focus - at the time. A higly skilled American teacher I studied by genuinly reminded his students about this by the parafrase: "Be wise - or be otherwise".

THE TOPIC
Since I have focused the question of A Atlantis, or a "primary culture", existing before historical time - I permitted myself to refer to the site www.bocksaga.de where there is a column called "Altlandis". The rest of the content of this and its related web-sites may be highly interesting - but it is beside the framework of the article on top of this page.

The case is simply this; The descriptions of a "Atlantic Society & Culture" is clearly found within the Norse mythologies, specifically those of the famous poem "Voluspaa" (a oral tradition written down first time in the 11th century, and thus not lost). Further descriptions of an "Atlantean Civilisation" in the north is found in the more famous "Oera Linda Boek", a written history from the 7th century found in Groeningen, Holland - being the basis for Robert Scruttons well-known book "The Other Atlantis", published in the 1970-ties.

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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2008, 02:49:16 am »

OLD AS NEW SCIENCE
To the learned Scandinavian it is also a well-known fact that the leading authority withing Swedens Academia during the 17th century; Prof. Olof Rudbeck sharply and exstensivly claimed that the "Atlantean Culture" of the earliest, historical Scandinavians where the basis of the Mediterranean legend of Atlantis. Conslusivly Rubeck found that "Atlantis" where in fact the primeval basis of the Scandinavian culture...!

But not before 1984/85 did we get a further explanation of this issue - when a FINNISH source of information (from the Fenno-Ugric language and culture) could refer to an age-old family-saga, actually explaining the congurence of "ice-time" and "Alt-land-is-time".

However much one turn this historical/mythological information up or down or around - it is NOT possible to dismay it. At least not before one understands the nature of this information and the realms of its sources.

THE SOURCE
Today we may dismay an old tradition because we find it "old-fashioned", "outdated" or not suitable in our techologic ("modern")reality. But within the historical research we have to acknowledge the historical and cultural information given to us by the magnitude of similar traditions from the old cultures of the world, such as the old Nordic or Norse/Indo-European culture.

Some day - as our arctical herritage gets better known - do we possibly understand that even Santa Claus, as well as Christmas itself, actually is based on traditions reflecting customs and realities of our very own anchestors life, culture and history.

So we`re back to the web-site www.bocksaga.de or www.bocksaga.com for a closer and more objective look. This time it is important to "read to reflect", rather than "read to react".

NO EASY-QUICK
I wrote the above because I tend to believe that anyone who cares to really reflect rather than react on theese matters would be in majority in this forum. Since I am getting to old to respond upon quick crack-down "analyzis", cheap contrafeit quotes, skillfull irony or intentional misunderstandings I hope the reflections on this peculiar issue may lead to a reflected discussion - rather than a stigmata between different "opinions", as if we where priests or ditto wannabes from different religions...

I try to behave rationally and I trust others to do the same. If in doubt; I ASK rather than state. If I DO understand or get somewhat enligthed I may have something to add or subtract. But I am not here with the aim to prove that anyone is wrong. Thus I dismiss the intent on putting down myself and others with nitty-gritty harrasments or airy-fairy comparisons. I am here to simply tell about the mentioned sources - and their possible implications.

Now if a majority of oceanic geologists have found it likely ("most likely") that the Gulf Stream appeared about 50 million years ago it coincide impressingly well with the statement of the Saga-material, telling that the Alt-land-is-period ("ice-time") started just about 50 million years ago. Now; which of theese sources should we trust - and which one to distrust?!

Moreover the Sagas tells that the ice-time started with a cataclysm, where a large part of the earths water evporated, to collect as damp around the poles - before it condensed and became two enormous ice-caps covering the northern resp. the southern pole-areas.

Meanwhile the Gulf-stream went over the Atlantic, hitting Biscaya - rocketting through the English Channel into the Oslo Fjord Area - where "the warm waves" could pass through "Ginnugagap" (a rift in the enormous icecap) entering the Baltic Ocean where the hot water hit the bottom of the Finish Bay - to circulate in front of the Finish archipelago.

SCIENCTIFIC PROOF?
Now; there is nothing in our knowledge about the extent of the northern ice-cap that contradicts the explanations of the saga-material - but quite the oposite! During the last 15 years it has become known that the massive ice-cap (3-5000 metres thick!) covered all the northern hemisphere. In North America down to Virginia from where it extended straigth east through the Atlantic Ocean as far as the longitude of Greenland before it started to turn north reaching Ireland and the British Isles. Because the Gulfstream was pressing north - finally via Biscaya through the English Channel and into the Oslofjord; the ice over Scandinavia could not close completly - and thus a rift was kept open. (The sagas calls it "Ginnungagap"; "The Giving-Youth-Gap"..!) Along this rift the stream kept bringing warm water from the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of Finland.

Still the rest of the isles, as well as the North Sea and whole Eurasian continent (down to the Alps and the Caucasian and Himalayan mountains) where covered by the northern ice-cap. And still today we may see the geologial, climatical and biological border between the arctical and the tropical hemispheres.

As far as I know there is still nothing found withing our natural sciences that really contradict this saga-material. As for the geology of the North Atlantic and the Fenno-Scandia it tends to support the folkore material.

VIEWS OR FACTS
Different scientists tend to have different opinions, especially on major questions within the different professions. Thus we all need critical views to fuel the prosess that ultimately gives us the "plain truth".
And as we want to be critical to any new source of information about major questions about our own history - we need to be likewise critical to the review of the geologists stating the "age and the development" of the Gulf-stream. Keep in mind that far from all geologists share the same view on that topic - and be utterly aware about the simple fact that "scientific truths" seem to be more and more shortlived.

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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 02:50:05 am »

HOW OLD IS OLD?
What is the reality behind the bocksaga statement of 50 million 10.020 years ago since the beginning of the "Alt-land-is-period"?! Is it possible that a highly spiritual or intellectual culture could evolve in this isolated existence - as they just about could survive ice-time? May Fenno-Scandia be the area where an isolated group of people had to endure that enormous time-span - evolving mentally and intectually - as well as physically; from tropicals man to articals? Since the artical ("Caucasian") man obviously exists; What peculiar circumstances was present - and how many generations did it take before an isolated branch of mankind could evolve; from a group of full-blooded tropicals to a bunch of pigmentless palefaces?!

They must have been isolated. For a very long time. According to the Bocksaga that happened as the ice-time covered the whole northern hemisphere - accept from the Baltic Ocean, with the south-coast of Finland and the Island of Gotland free of ice.

LONG TIME
We have another problem along the same line; How can we not compare the Mayan, the Norse and the Vedic time-frames - all originating from an ancient tradition of "royal story-tellers". And how should we relate theese information with geological estimates of modern time? May we trust a certain information as a fact if ALL theese sources align in the same conclusion?

Today isotope-technology is able to define time technically correct. But this technology is brand new to the historic discussion - and it has no less than revolutionized the scientific value of modern archeology. Now - the paradox is that the better scientific tools we have - the more indications and (even) proofs have occured to support the main-lines in the old folklore traditions. Even "legends" - such as the story about Atlantis" - is now about to be scientifically proved...

OLD SOURCE - NEW SURPRISE
It should be quite obvious that the sources and the stories I am refering to are NEW to most people debating Atlantis. I do understand that such scientific surprises very rarely occur - that being in science or culture. And this normality, or conservatism, is exactly the reason why the overall majority of established science refutes the whole "Atlantis-legend" as mere dream-work. But now the surprise is here - for all of us - just to be understood and enjoyed!

Furthermore; If this information is anywhere CLOSE to a historical (scientifical) truth we better hold this saga close to our eyes - and up against the sun - for further investigation, research and debate. The Finnish saga explains that - by the support of simple archeological excavations - may this ancient, oral tradition give the first conslusive proofs of the legendary culture of "Atlantis". May it than matter exactly WHERE this proofs are actually found?!

[This message has been edited by Boreas (edited 01-24-2004).]

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[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 03-04-2005).]

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Janna Britton
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2008, 02:50:15 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:36             
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docyabut
Member posted 01-26-2004 06:52
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Didn`t evolution explain the white race? Man living in the colder climates for 20,000 years, made the mellon in the skin turn white and made the noses close up Rajash answer my question, as to why the Asian eyeslids are swollen and narrow. From migating and battling the colder climates.Makes sense to me.
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Pytheas
Member posted 01-26-2004 07:40
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I have a question to you Boreas:
You suggest, or claim, that the english channel existed 50 million years ago.
I respectfully disagree. The channel is a big fault created in the same moment in time as the mid- atlantic transform-fault was created - about 13000 years ago.
So the gulf stream could not have reached through this channel into "Ginnugagap" before this date - Or?

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Brig
Moderator posted 01-26-2004 16:38
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Doc: Scientists are still debating what made whites white. There are peoples who live in the far north, have for thousands of years, but they are hardly whiter than their southern counterparts. On the other hand there are dark skinned (not black) peoples who live pretty far south or actually on the equator up to, and to, the cusp of it who have green or even blue eyes and thin noses and lips. Some are oriental in appearance. Also the Anu of Japan are quite hairy an white. They were on the mainland of Japan before the Japanese. No Doc, the extreme whitness, blond, blue eyes, of Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, etc. have never been satisfactorily explained; though many have tried.
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[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 03-04-2005).]

 
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2008, 02:50:32 am »

rockessence
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  posted 11-08-2004 10:38             
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Boreas
Member posted 01-27-2004 07:50
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Hi all -
and thank You for considerate responses!
I do indeed appreciate Your clear and questions and Your highly relevant comments.
LEGEND AND REALITY
It should be evident that the "Legend of Atlantis" really needs a very sincere and (perhaps extraorinary) objectivity and clear-mindedness. Especially if we - with this "special interest" - want to move our scientific communities to attend the topic with a more sincere objectivity.
Though I am pretty sure that we have to bring some new and undeniable points to the discussion - hopefully backed up by concrete EVIDENCE, - as well as strong indications and clear questions.

The majority of established historians seems to be benefitting by hiding (out!?!) - in beuraucratic institutions with a prestige- or profitt-minded management, always keeping a defensive ("sceptic") attitude towards inovative issues like ours. Thus I believe that forums like this website is really needed to attend, describe and even prove the significance of the Atlantis-question. Given the meek (but not humble) treatment theese questions have begot from the "scientific historians" it seems unavoidable that "alternative sciencists" and autodidacts must do the hardwork needed to shed apropriate ligth on theese puzzles, riddles and questions. Seen in an existential perspective it may seem that theese are key-questions to our origin and our evolution. As our atomic age revolves it`s obvious that we are quickly aproaching a period of cultural flux - as a historical intermediate when we really will NEED to asses, solve and answer this basic questions - in order to keep our perspective as human beeings...

That is why I (personally) feel so encouraged when people with a real and good intellect engage and become eager adressing theese questions.

 
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Janna Britton
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2008, 02:50:49 am »

OUT OF AFRICA?
Now; what do we really know about the population that once resided in the BALTIC AREA during (minimum) 280.000 years, until the icetime ended?
Not much, - from the Finish National Board of Antiqueties - we just learned that this population DID exist, until it disapeared just before the end of ice-time, approx. 10.000 years ago. (See:www.nba.fi/wolfcave)

A recent survey within the White Sea-area have shown that an artic population ("most likely modern human beings") used to visit the White Sea - for seasonal hunting and fishing, and "possibly more permanent living" - FROM around 40.000 years ago. (See: The Norwegian/Russian "Pechora- project", presented in "Nature", Sept, 2001. (www.nature/pechora)

The most astonishing facts arrivng from the Pechora-project is that:
A. The Baltic Ocean and the White Sea was ice-free (and connected) much more than 40.000 yrs ago.
B. That modern man have lived in the high north already at that time. According to "established science" this was just about corresponding to the age of modern man in Europe, just arriving from Africa via Trans-Caucasia...!

Now we may just ask:
1. How can we explain the development of the highly specialized arctical humans - able to exist and even expand in the extreme arctical climate - just a few years after leaving the African coco-nuts and the bambo-huts? (How would todays Bantus, Tuareks or Amazone-indians survive on the, say, NORTHERN tip of todays Greenland?!)
Any suggestions???

2. As the Baltic Ocean and the White Sea was connected - where today are the Seas of Ladoga & Onega - the whole Fenno-Scandian Penninsula would actually be an ISLAND. More than 90% of the area would be covered in ice, - but along the coast-lines we find traces of an pre-historic, arctical human beeing.

ESCAPING A MOVING GLACIER
Another point to this is the nature of the events that made an end to ice-time. From Scandinavian geology we know that the largest part of the ice-cap did not melt down - but actually slided down to the North Sea and the Atlantic Ocean in the south and west, - and the Baltic Ocean to the south/east. Today we know that the enourmous glaciers moved from the high mountains to the oceans at the SPEED of 16-20 km a year.

3. A small group of articals - living in the Baltic area - evidently escaped destinction as the enourmous icemasses evidently pushed over and crushed the livelyhood along the coastlines of Fenno-Scandia.

Thus the preboreal populations of Fenno-Scandia was obviously experiencing a "cataclysm"; as the enormous sheets of frozen water started moving; destroying evrything on its way and even polishing the whole landscape of Finland and Scandinavia.

"ELLIVAAGOR" - THE LIFE SAVER
According to C-14 tests this cataclysm happened between 10.000 to 10.700 years ago. In this period there would be impossible to live anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere, accept from Southern England that have remained ice-free throughout the entire ice-time. There is a gulf-stream needed to have done that...

Though, the geological surveys of the western coast of Friesland, Holstein and Jutland (mainland Denmark) shows that "sub-tropical corall" grew along the English Channel up to the northern coasts of Denmark, until about 50 mill. years ago. Thereafter another corall, able to grow in "sub-arctical" water took over, until it ceased some 11.-12.000 years ago.

Even as far north as the inner Oslo Bay area do we find small areas that have - beyond doubst - been ice-free, throughout the entire ice-time. Moreover we find the same phenomenon in the Baltic Ocean itself, - where the large island of GOTLAND, consisting of old corall-chalck, obviously had been KEPT free of ice (by a Gulf Stream) during the ENTIRE ice-time.

NOT MICE
But on the mainlands all around the North Sea and the Baltic Ocean the up to 3000 metres thick ice-cap dwelled - keeping the winters dark, cold and long and the days of summer short and few. The norse epic "Voluspaa" refers to this as the "Finbull-winter", where "Ellivaagor" ("fired waves") came through "Ginnungagap" and - along with; "Sun shine from South; made the Stone warm, made the Green grow".

By the way; The "Voluspaa" entitle he original norsemen "Aser". One verse even explain how they once had to escape their homeyard ("Asgard") to survive at "NOA-tun"; meaning the "The Yard of Noa" - before returning home to Hel, "The Whole" (i.e. "The Hol-y"/"The Hol-i-stic").

NOT "GODS" - JUST PEOPLE.
Today we may understand "Voluspaa" and other sagas and legends as short versions of a long and ancient saga about the arctical people. Which is quite the contrary to the deceit, distortons and abstactions that still color our basic comprehension of our historical past. Sins like this was committed by an emperial religion of the 13th and 14th century - who completly changed, re-defined and rewrote most of the norse texts. Since then the comprehension of the etnic origin and cultural background of the Norsemen have become "Brute People with the Aser as a primitive Superstition of the Headon Gods".

Thus the true history of the Nordic and the Eurasian cultures was conquered, outrooted and submerged, to fit with the Latin academia of the religious Rome.

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