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News: Underwater caves off Yucatan yield three old skeletons—remains date to 11,000 B.C.
http://www.edgarcayce.org/am/11,000b.c.yucata.html
 
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Gathering 'concrete' evidence

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Bianca
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« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2008, 08:08:26 am »





QUOTE:


"Whats your take on this B?

  Cast or carved?"



HFN,

Frankly, I I just 'stumbled upon' that article and thought you would all be interested, so I
added it here.

I am not really 'into' this discussion, so I can't formulated an informed opinion.

But I do like to follow it and read everybody's opinions.
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Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart what is true.
HereForNow
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« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2008, 09:46:07 am »

Very diplomatic.....
LOL (kidding)

One of the reasons I origionally didn't want to touch this one is because I have never been face to face with the pyramids.


Given the information that we have, I am leaning toward it being more carved on-location from the bedrock right there. I guess, once all the information that can be collectively gathered is presented at once. It might be more easily decided.

For now I am open to discussing more about the present theory here, and taking in more information about the casting of these materials. Who knows......
Maybe something will surface and change everything we thought we knew. That is always welcome.
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Josie Linde
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« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2008, 02:43:39 am »

Another version of the article Bianca posted earlier:

Pyramids packed with fossil shells
Monday, 28 April 2008 Jennifer Viegas
Discovery News



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Were Egypt's great ancient monuments carved from stone or cast like concrete? New fossil evidence, found intact and embedded in the monument walls, reignites the debate (Source: iStockphoto)

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Many of Egypt's most famous monuments, such as the Sphinx and Cheops pyramid at Giza, contain hundreds of thousands of marine fossils, according to a new study.


Most of the fossils are intact and preserved in the monument walls, giving clues to how the monuments were built.

The authors suggest the stones that make up the Giza plateau, Fayum and Abydos monuments must have been carved out of natural stone as they reveal what chunks of the sea floor must have looked like over 4000 years ago, when the buildings were erected.

"The observed random emplacement and strictly homogenous distribution of the fossil shells within the whole rock is in harmony with their initial in situ setting in a fluidal sea bottom environment," write Professor Ioannis Liritzis and his colleagues from the University of the Aegean and the University of Athens.

The researchers analysed the mineralogy, as well as the chemical makeup and structure, of small material samples chiselled from the Sphinx Temple; the Osirion Shaft; the Valley Temple; the Cheops, Khefren and Menkaure pyramids at Giza; Osirion at Abydos; the Temple of Seti I at Abydos; and Qasr el-Sagha at Fayum.

X-ray diffraction and radioactivity measurements, which can penetrate solid materials to help illuminate their composition, were carried out.

Granite, sandstone, limestone
The analysis determined the primary building materials were pinky granites, black and white granites, sandstones and various types of limestones.

The latter contained numerous shell fossils of the genus Nummulites, simple marine organisms whose name means 'little coins'.

"[At Cheops alone they constituted] a proportion of up to 40% of the whole building stone rock," the researchers write in the latest issue of the Journal of Cultural Heritage.

Nummulites that lived during the Eocene period around 55.8-33.9 million years ago are most commonly found in Egyptian limestone.

Fossils have also been unearthed at other sites, such as in Turkey and throughout the Mediterranean.

When nummulites are bisected horizontally they appears as a perfect spiral. Since they were common in ancient Egypt, it's believed the shells were used as coins, perhaps explaining their name.

Fossils of their ancient marine relatives - sand dollars, starfish and sea urchins - were also detected in the Egyptian limestone.

Intact fossils throughout the stone
The fossils are largely undamaged and are distributed in a random manner within the stone, in accordance with their typical distribution at sea floors.

So, Liritzis and his team argue that the large building stones used to construct the monuments must have been carved out of natural stone instead of cast in moulds.

To further their argument, the scientists say the x-ray patterns detect no presence of lime, which would be expected along with the salt natron, which would indicate cast materials.

They also point out there are no references of moulds, buckets or other casting tools in early Egyptian paintings, sculptures or texts.

Carved or cast?
Joseph Davidovits, professor and director of France's Geopolymer Institute, formulated the theory that natural limestone was cast like concrete to build the pyramids.

Davidovits says that Liritzis and his team "should have taken into account the scientific analysis" he and other researchers conducted before backing the carved-not-cast hypothesis.

Robert Temple, co-director of the Project for Historical Dating and a visiting research fellow at universities in the US, Egypt and Greece, has also studied Egypt's monuments.

He agrees with Davidovits about the casting.

"There is no evidence known that suggests the ancient Egyptians had cranes," he says. "Without cranes, it is difficult to imagine how they could have lifted giant stones, some as heavy as 200 tonnes."

Temple, however, agrees about the importance of the fossils.

"Egyptian pyramid blocks of limestone tend to contain fossil shells and nummulites, often huge quantities of them, many of them intact, and many of them of surprisingly large size," he says.

"Frankly, not many people pay attention to the shells, which I have always thought was a shame. 'Seashells in the desert' - a good story."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/04/28/2229383.htm?site=science&topic=ancient
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Josie Linde
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« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2008, 02:44:46 am »

Seashells in the desert, anyone want to argue for against the idea that the pyramids were involved in a great flood? 
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HereForNow
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2008, 03:07:55 pm »

Seashells in the desert, anyone want to argue for against the idea that the pyramids were involved in a great flood? 

I won't but then the great flood occured before 5600 bc as legend has it. That would mean the pyramids were made before the great flood right?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 03:09:36 pm by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Qoais
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2008, 06:52:19 pm »

Right.  The original rock would then be from a sea bed.  The sea shells weren't added AFTER construction had already taken place. 

Quote
Liritzis and his team argue that since the fossils are largely undamaged and are distributed in a random manner within the stone, in accordance with their typical distribution at sea floors, the large building stones used to construct the monuments must have been carved out of natural stone instead of cast in molds.

Davidovits uses the term jumbled and liritzis used the word random.  Wonder if they mean the same thing?  Davidovits also found air bubbles (incorporated when stirring of course) and in one sample a human hair.   
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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HereForNow
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« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2008, 09:07:57 am »

 Smiley The Evidence on both sides is pretty interesting isn't it?
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BlueHue
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« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2008, 10:10:18 am »

On TOMB PAINTINGS at DEIR el BAHARI,

Stonemasons can be seen molding several volumesizes of Concrete blocks even  shoulder high which gives a pretty good idea that not all the blocks came from rivermus but also from grinded Seafloor marble. Cry  Cry  Cry
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HereForNow
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« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2008, 02:20:57 pm »

What if I were to say that I beleive that the entire plateau was actually at a higher elevation and they carved out the entire plateau to get the pyramids and everything else thats there?  Smiley

SE:

NW:

W:

From this western angle, you can easily see canal or rocky outcrops that travel in the same direction as the back veiw of the pyramids as well as other features that suggests that the stone was carved from right there.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:37:04 pm by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

HereForNow
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« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2008, 02:33:46 pm »

Over head veiw:

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Qoais
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« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2008, 04:37:17 pm »

IWANNANO - where are you getting the cool pictures Cool
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
HereForNow
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HUH?


« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2008, 05:02:47 pm »

http://oi.uchicago.edu/museum/
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Qoais
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« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2008, 05:24:04 pm »

Thank you.

So, what exactly, does this mean?

Quote
What if I were to say that I beleive that the entire plateau was actually at a higher elevation and they carved out the entire plateau to get the pyramids and everything else thats there?
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
HereForNow
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HUH?


« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2008, 07:25:07 pm »

 Smiley Cheesy Smiley Cheesy Smiley Cheesy Smiley Cheesy Grin

They were carved?
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Qoais
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« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2008, 09:59:03 pm »

Not
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
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