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INTERNATIONAL MILOS CONFERENCE 2005 :ATLANTIS (Ulf Richter)

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Tina Walter
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« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2008, 10:33:28 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-01-2005 02:42 PM                   
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One of the members of the programme committee of the Milos Conference was Professor Christos Doumas from the Greek Archaeological Society and director of the excavations in Akrotiri on the island of Santorini (= Thera).

His predeccessor in the Akrotiri excavations, who detected this famous Minoan city on Santorini, Spiridon Marinatos, invented already 1939 the theory that Platoīs Atlantis was the Minoan Empire, and the Explosion of the Thera volcano which extincted this civilization was the catastrophe which destroyed Atlantis.
Prof. Doumas proved that the Thera volcano had many eruptions before the great one in 1628 BC, and its crater existed also before this eruption, leaving no room for a settlement of the kings of Atlantis on an island in the center.

Prof. Doumas considered the search for Atlantis as the utopia of an utopia, said that Plato had only invented the story as an instrument to promote his political philosophy and confirmed it by the nearly complete ignorance of his Atlantis story by the entire ancient Greek literatur. So, any modern involvement in this subject is pure science fiction, waist of time and totally unscientific.

In the discussion Prof. Papamarinopoulos answered
that a couple of antique authors have dealt with this topic, and that Plato has described in the narration of the Saitic priest some facts which were still unknown in his time.
For instance the great depth of the sea around the Greek mainland, where "the soil which has kept breaking away from the high lands during these ages and these disasters, forms no pile of sediment worth mentioning, as in other regions, but keeps sliding away ceaselessly and disappearing in the deep"(Crit.111B).
Or the spring on the Acropolis of Athens (Crit.112D), which was re-detected only in our time and unknown to Plato.
He took these examples as evidence that Plato reported a real story handed down from older times.

[ 08-01-2005, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Ulf Richter ]

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« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2008, 10:33:57 pm »

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  posted 08-01-2005 02:57 PM                   
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i don't know where they are but they certainly are not the straits of gibralter.
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« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2008, 10:34:23 pm »

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Can anyone get me an e-mail list of all those that attended the conference?
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2008, 10:34:53 pm »

 
Ulf Richter

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A list of the participants of the Milos Conference you can find here:

http://milos.conferences.gr/uploads/media/List_of_Participants_01.pdf

An adress list or email list does not exist.

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Ulf

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« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2008, 10:38:44 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-02-2005 08:50 AM                   
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In Physorg.com is reported about the Milos-Conference, certainly using the press release articles found on the conference website.
The second article was rewritten a bit and they confused the place where the conference were held: instead in Milos they placed it in Malta !


http://www.physorg.com/news5068.html

Greek island hosts three-day conference on Atlantis myth

July 11, 2005

An international congress devoted to the myth of the lost continent of Atlantis opened Monday on the Greek island of Milos, attended by seismologists, geologists, geographers, philosophers, historians and archaeologists from five existing continents.


"We're not trying to establish whether Atlantis existed or not, or to agree on a definite location, which would be presumptuous for a tale that has existed for over 2,500 years," Spyros Pavlidis, a professor of palaeoseismology at the Aristotelio University of Salonika, told AFP.

"Our objective is to hear all hypotheses, take stock of all reliable data, and examine the sources of inspiration," he said.

Pavlidis, one of the congress organisers, said that contributions from some speakers were rejected for being "too fantastical."

The seismology professor personally sees in the Atlantis tale told by the fourth century BC Greek philosopher Plato "an allegory on the decline of a civilisation, with the hint of a true story at its core."

But he admits that most of the participants, who include independent researchers as well as university academics, in the three-day congress "are leaning towards believing the story, and seek to find the city."

Contribution themes range from "The quest for Atlantis: the utopia of an utopia" to "Atlantis was Israel".


http://www.physorg.com/news5482.html

Researchers debate existence of Atlantis

July 28, 2005

Researchers are no closer to finding the location of the lost city of Atlantis, saying they are confused by Plato's account of its disappearance.

Plato, more than 2,300 years ago, wrote Atlantis disappeared into the ocean in just one day after violent earthquakes and floods.
During a conference of Atlantis researchers held earlier this month in Malta, Marc-Andre Gutscher of the European Institute for Marine Studies, noted Egyptians who told Plato the Atlantis story may have used a different definition of "years," meaning the destruction of Atlantis occurred more recently than thought.

The conference reached no firm conclusions. But researchers did agree on 24 criteria a geographical area must satisfy to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed.
The criteria include the existence of: hot springs, northerly winds, elephants, enough people for an army of 10,000 chariots and a ritual of bull sacrifice.

Geologist Floyd McCoy of the University of Hawaii-Kaneohe said most of Plato's description of Atlantis is ambiguous and open to interpretation, Nature reported.
McCoy told the conference, "With the information we have from the ancient text, it may never be found -- if indeed it ever existed."

[ 08-02-2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Ulf Richter ]

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« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2008, 10:39:12 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-02-2005 12:26 PM                   
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In my post from 07-24-2005 I wrote about the lecture of Marc Gutscher (Spartel-Theory) and supposed that Marc was not quite convinced himself in Collina-Girardīs theory Spartel = Atlantis. Now, in an answer to Kris Hirst in an Archaeology website, he is certifying this himself:

http://archaeology.miningco.com/od/controversies/a/atlantis05_3.htm

Marc-Andre Gutscher Responds

Hi Kris,
I am writing to comment briefly upon your weblog concerning my Geology article on the destruction of Atlantis. It turns out that I agree with almost eveything you write, but I only recently came to this conclusion.

In a sense, yes it's the right place, the right circumstances, but no it's not the right time. After having heard various talks at the conference in Milos last week (on Atlantis) I cannot escape the fact that Plato is writing about a bronze age society, with a hierarchy, metallurgy skills, advanced construction, transport and navigation skills, and that this just isn't conceivable in Southern Iberia some 12,000 yrs ago.

So I conclude, if Spartel paleo-island was inhabited roughly 12,000 yrs ago, then it must have been simple fishermen (but the drowning of fishermen would hardly merit being recorded by priests in Egypt would it?).

Otherwise, Plato's chronology must be erroneous. This latter possibility was widely discussed in Milos and suggestions were made that the Egyptian priests counted years either as moon months, or perhaps seasons.

Either would have a dramatic impact on the chronology.

The bottom line is, Spartel was not inhabited by an advanced bronze age culture. So the Atlantis hunters can keep searching.

kind regards,

Marc-Andre Gutscher
Universite de Bretagne Occidentale
Institut Universitaire Europeen de la Mer
UMR 6538 Domaines Oceaniques
Place Nicolas Copernic
F-29280
Plouzane, France

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Ulf

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« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2008, 10:39:34 pm »

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Ulf,

I found the following article well worth repeating;

Quote:

"We're not trying to establish whether Atlantis existed or not, or to agree on a definite location, which would be presumptuous for a tale that has existed for over 2,500 years," Spyros Pavlidis, a professor of palaeoseismology at the Aristotelio University of Salonika, told AFP.

The seismology professor personally sees in the Atlantis tale told by the fourth century BC Greek philosopher Plato

"an allegory on the decline of a civilisation, with the hint of a true story at its core."

---

Lets pluralise the word "hint" - and I couldnt agree more.

---

Thus we are back to the ancient antiquety, where we should find the very earliest bronze age civilisation that developed - and exported their understanding about metalurgics (etc.) - to the rest of the planet...

At least that defends a mostlogic view on the reminiscents of the history, as described by Plato - relted to the facts from modern geology, archeology and ancient history in genral.

Funnily this logic remains clear also when one compare it with the oldest myths of the various cultures, as well as the geological definitions of the cataclysmic changes that took place on the entire planet 10.000 years BP, when the great ice-times suddenly ended.

---

As science and mythology finally are able to meet, - discuss and re-evaluate, in the balance of honest logic; it may seem that we - finally - are aproaching more mature and proper settings for our further discussions on the European roots - of culture and mythology. As part of a World Heritage, - that is - that preceeds ice-time, - and Atlantis...

[ 08-02-2005, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Boreasi ]
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« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2008, 10:39:59 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 09:43 PM                   
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Good Grief Charlie Brown! 

The Atlantis story covers a wide span of years starting from 9000 years prior to the Egyptian Priests lips, (Wedjahor-Resne).

We see the advent from the time of Athena and Hephaistos and "before ships voyages" were even heard of (3500.bC)

I'm sure Christos Doumas has wondered about the Tarxien ship on the Phaistos Disk.

No matter how you rearrange the Chalcidius, it still spells out ATLANTIC OCEAN.

If all those scholars can't establish that Atlantis was in fact in the Atlantic, what are they teaching our young minds?

It's no wonder man hasn't found Atlantis (which ancestors are still walking this Earth) because as is typical of man, he is too quick to judge and criticize the disbelief rather than the belief.

You may as well have thrown all the old scripts in the Oxyrynchus dump for that matter.

Here's another way to look at the Atlantis dating other than how I've shown the difference between lunar and greek cycles can bring us to around 6000.bC.

Today we have "0" for our marker from Jesus Christ and 2004 years to follow.

Yesterday in 600.bC to us, what was it to them?

Did the ancients already have 3000 years past to their 0 in 600.bC so that 9000 years ago would be 6000.bC.

Same with the Pharaohs, 1st month of the 25th year of a King.

Seriously, we have 0 because of Christ.

Was there 0 Ptah/Ja or Athena?

I will not stir up the same dust, but tell us Jose Maria de la Rosa, are you in fact Maria Val Mayor? You definitely distinguish her characteristics.

No big deal if you are, just be professional and don't lose your temper. I'm not sure how the others feel, but apologies would be in order for we only wanted you to understand our position and to maintain good manners.

Atlantis is not a myth.
Plato is not a liar.

If you say he is, then please throw all his works in the Oxyrynchus dump!
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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2008, 10:40:27 pm »

Riven

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For example;

Egypts calendar, 4142.bC upto 570.bC for the legend revealed equals a respectful 3572 years passed by.

Egyptian Priest says 9000 years ago less 3572 years to their known calendar start ( if they had the same basic opinion we do), puts you at a respectful....

5428.bC for the Atlantis disaster and Great Flood Myth, precisely in tune with the Bosphorous straites opening around 5500.bC as Scholars think.

Interesting concept, isn't it?

Something must be off here because the Planets say 6482.bC as I have exhausted myself to discover.

By the way, have you ever noticed that old Alexandria is reminiscent to almost a T with Atlantis?

And what was the old name for Alexandria?

And who was a King on Crete that started with the same letter?

Here's a hint;
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/alexandria/history/founding.html

and look at the City plan here;
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/alexandria/Gallery/old_map.gif

Pompey Pillar;
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/alexandria/Gallery/pompey.jpg
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« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2008, 10:42:36 pm »

Erick Wright

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   posted 08-04-2005 04:02 PM                   
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Riven,

There seemed to be a general concensus that was reached on several points - at least this was the case with the 60 or so people that I had an opportunity to speak to during the conference. The points on which a general concensus seemed to be reached were:

1. That the Atlantis story possesses a factual core, but possesses fictional elements in its periphery.

2. That there was a definite problem with the date of 9,600 B.C. that Plato gave for the founding of Atlantis. The time period of 9,600 B.C. is in the middle of the Stone Age. The archaeological data overwhelmingly agrees that man was not advanced during that period of time.

3. That the description of the city of Atlantis matches that of a Late Bronze Age city. We can therefore reasonably conclude that the story of Atlantis originated or was inspired by some event that occured in the Late Bronze Age.

Again, this was the general concensus amongst the majority of the 60 or so people that I had an opportunity to meet and speak with.

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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2008, 10:43:31 pm »

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There has simply not been much found that demonstrates that mankind was advanced in the "stone-age". Could be because man really wasn't advanced at that time or it could be that simply evidence of this advancement has not been found as yet. Keep in mind, if some one landed a probe in the center of Africa or several other places of like advancement, the probes builders would be certain the earth was still in a stone-age or dang close to it.
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2008, 10:44:20 pm »

Riven

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Thanks for the response Erick.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to teach scholars or people who should return to Plato's Academy and apologize to Plato for debasing him and his family.

They're lucky Plato doesn't put on his armour!

The legend spans a time of 7500 years.
9000-1500.bC, simple.

If the scholars need me to train them in Atlantis studies, then ask, and I will explain it so they understand what they know not.

Just ask them if Atlanteans exist today, then you will know if they are worthy of the Academy of Atlantis.

If they don't know what Ships we speak of, then tell them the Tarxien Dragon Claw Orb Ships from 3500.bC who were also trading with Egyptian and Cretean Ships.

If they want to know how they can learn,tell them here in AR Forums.

praenuntio
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« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2008, 10:44:46 pm »

unknown

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   posted 08-04-2005 06:19 PM                   
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Tarxien Dragon claw orb ships?

I hate to appear ignorant(thou I often am)

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several species of small furry animals gathered together and grooving with a pict in a cave

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« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2008, 10:45:07 pm »

Riven

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unknown,

There you go, now you can see the thread.
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« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2008, 10:46:05 pm »

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   posted 08-04-2005 07:38 PM                   
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Riven

I am obviously not in your league when discussing this topic, but there are a few things that are obvious to me.

There was a sacred mountain that most cultures recognize, it is so recognizable in so many various ancient cultures it cannot be denied by anyone seriously studying the subject.

That from linguistic studies it is not impropable that once their was a universal language, and if this is true it means at one time there was a universal culture.

That all major cultures share a cosmology, although with different metaphors. One of the most interesting similarities being the great flood.

Another aspect of this is advanced/superior beings bringing the arts and sciences to primative peoples.

and so much more...

for instance the precession of the stars, archetypes and and polar shifts
Also

[ 08-04-2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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