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Libya - a part of Atlantis? - Ulf Richter

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Author Topic: Libya - a part of Atlantis? - Ulf Richter  (Read 1584 times)
Aatlae
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2008, 11:21:12 pm »

Smiley4554

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  posted 03-21-2005 09:00 AM                   
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Naquada? I'll admit that I hadn't heard about that one.
http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/1912.htm

quote:
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...(Petrie) discovered many cemeteries on the western bank of the Nile, between the districts of Naquada and Ballas, the contents of which differed considerably from those of other graves in Egypt, and which he therefore regarded not as Egyptian but as belonging probably to a Lybian race." One of the remarkable differences was the posture of the buried dead. With few exceptions up to this time the dead were found lying on their backs or on their sides at full length, the bodies found by Dr. Petrie in the districts named were "doubled up, the knees drawn up, the hands before the face, and lying on the left side ... The funeral objects were peculiar." These considerations led Dr. Petrie to conclude that the race they represented was not Egyptian, A year later, however, the French Egyptologist Prof. E. Amelineau made discoveries of a similar character in the "rubbish mounds known as Umm el-Ga'ab, near the ancient, sacred city of Abydos." "The tombs of the kings of Abydos," remarks Prof. Steindorff, "being purely Egyptian (as the inscriptions found in them prove,) it naturally follows that the civilization brought to light through these tombs is also Egyptian, and does not belong to another people as Petrie at first assumed."
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http://artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/02_edpetros.html
Scroll about 1/2 way down to see some period pieces discovered.

So it really comes down to this. Was this culture not Egyptian?


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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2008, 11:21:37 pm »

docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-21-2005 11:36 AM                   
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Smiley, heres a 5000 years old vase.
Decorated with an unusual burial scene, it had been considered a fake, as it was "too good to be true". The decoration on the vase shows a figure on a boat, lying on its back and curled in the foetal position. This is how some early Egyptians may have been buried before mummification was introduced.

Was the figure really a egyptain?
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=548420


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Aatlae
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« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2008, 11:23:30 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 03-26-2005 04:47 PM                   
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The remnants of the so called Naquada culture show many pictures of ships, painted on pottery or carved into rock walls:
http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/02_edpetros.html
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« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2008, 11:25:15 pm »

José María de la Rosa

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Rate Member   posted 08-15-2005 12:10 AM                   
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Just bumping this thread up... This Topic is deserved to be in front page also. If Riven yet it can do it topics that like... and it is allowed... I also have right...

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Greetings, José M. de la Rosa."had for his portion the extremity (ακρας) of the island nearer (προς) of the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar), in (on, upon) the part of the country now called Gadeira(Cadiz)"

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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2008, 11:25:46 pm »

José María de la Rosa

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Rate Member   posted 08-15-2005 09:03 AM                   
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Dear Ulf...

I believe that nobody could doubt that Libya has been part of Atlantis.

Is described in Plato of very clear way, and in addition, other authors like Siculus, also say it...  Smiley

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Greetings, José M. de la Rosa."had for his portion the extremity (ακρας) of the island nearer (προς) of the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar), in (on, upon) the part of the country now called Gadeira(Cadiz)"

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« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2008, 11:26:12 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-15-2005 02:25 PM                   
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In the paper of Ulrich Hofmann for the Milos Conference he writes about rock carvings of chariots in western North Africa.
This shows that the Lybian tribes used chariots already in very early times.

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Ulf

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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2008, 11:26:46 pm »

José María de la Rosa

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Dear Ulf...

Georgeos Diaz spoke in the radio (segun memory the last summer) of petroglyps like those, but according to him nothing exists that demonstrates its true antiquity.

In Iberia also we have also several, but according to it seems oldest would be of the Chacolithic or the Neolithic

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Greetings, José M. de la Rosa."had for his portion the extremity (ακρας) of the island nearer (προς) of the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar), in (on, upon) the part of the country now called Gadeira(Cadiz)"

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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2008, 11:27:30 pm »

J-LCunchillos

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   posted 08-16-2005 09:47 PM                   
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Hi friends,

I am an enthusiastic one of old history, in special of the Phoenician World. My greater interest has been the colonizations phoenician of the West (Morocco and Iberia) for two years I am working in a project on the first visits of phoenician them to the West, because the last studies demonstrate that the oldest sites are in the coasts of Andalusia, Spain (around century IX BC), although we did not discard the inscription phoenician that epigraphist in Vigo discovered spanish, Pontevedra, Galicia, that by its style only can be dated in the centuries XII-XI BC, that is, that would be proof of presence phoenician older of all West.

The mystery is that nobody can explain as they phoenician them could travel until the noroccidental height of Iberia, and that nevertheless we did not find still found establishments older than the century IX-VIII BC in any place of Iberia nor of Morocco.

In summary. I very am interested in learning and to interchange information on they phoenician in Iberia and Morocco, but in special in Iberia, perhaps so that I am of Seville.

Perhaps I want to finish my thesis stops before Christmas, can help me with more information.

And of course, subject of Atlantis fascinates me, mainly, since in Spain armed great commotion by theories of investigator of our country that defends (with enough reason and arguments) that Atlantis were the name which Solon translated of the name of the peninsula of Iberia, that was translated just as the Greek Atlas name, that is, "to support, endure, to to bear".

I believed before in theory that name Iberia phoenician of was Yspanya (in Latin Ispania/Hispania), that translated like "Island of North", but now I incline a little more to this new theory that it would be *Yspalya, "Island Elevated", or "Island of Spal "the (god or king) that to bear (or to support) upwards", that it would give origin to the Roman form Ispal/Ispali/Hispalis (name of my city, Seville), and later by change of L in N (a very common phenomenon between all the languages semitics as they phoenician or punic), would happen to the most delayed form of Yspan or Yspania, of the one that it derived Ispania and Hispania later.

In addition, also *Yberya could to be form phoenician of old name proto-indoeuropean or indoeuropean, *BHeR (IE)"to bear", since from this root they derive meaning such which later they appear in other words like the Greek Atlas (of tlaô), "to bear, to support" (among other similars).

Then, * Y-bêrya (in Greek Ibêria), could be an adaptation phoenician of a original name IE or proto-IE, and that could mean the same one that phoenician *Yspalya and that Greek Atlantis. You can imagine (with all logic) as they sevillan, I must be very glad with these news!

I know enough phoenician and egyptian, I am not a doctor, but I have quite advanced knowledge, for many years of study and dedication, and these hypotheses are very good, explain many misteries.

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Atlanticôs Salutatis
Iberia Phoenîca

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Posts: 28 | From: Sevilla | Registered: Aug 2005 
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2008, 11:28:11 pm »

Boreasi

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   posted 08-16-2005 10:09 PM                   
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From where - in your opinion - did the Phonicians originate?

Best regards
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2008, 11:29:03 pm »

J-LCunchillos

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   posted 08-16-2005 10:45 PM                   
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Dear friend Boreasi,

Exists several theories, but the most accepted (and than I also acceptance) it is that they arose in II millenium BC, the coasts of Syria and Palestine. This is from the point of view of the archaeology, but the historical point of view is not due either to forget, that is to say, what the texts of the old authors say, and from this point of view in fact, is not possible to be spoken of Phoenician until the sources do not speak for the first time of them, who were in Homero texts (century VIII BC) that used the name of Phoinikês, Greek word that is translated as "purple or red color as the wine", since they were very famous by their dyed dresses of this color, and that caused that the Greeks gave that name, but one really does not know as they were called to if same, probably the inhabitants of Tyr, would be called Tyrians and the inhabitants of Sydon, Sydonians, etc.

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Atlanticôs Salutatis
Iberia Phoenîca

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« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2008, 11:29:51 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-24-2005 02:36 PM                   
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Dear José,

The problem of rock engravings is always, that you do not know the age, when you have no other finds associated with the pictures.

But it is interesting that especially in the north western part of Africa, the ancient "Libya", having been according to Plato under the rule of the kings of Atlantis, we find so many rock engravings of chariots with horses. Hofmann wrote in his paper for the Milos Conference, that more than 300 paintings and engravings of chariots have been discovered in this area. Till today no scholar has explained these numerous chariot paintings. The area where these paintings were found is 2000 km in the extension north-south and 2500 km in the extension east-west, all over the modern states Morocco, Algeria, Mauretania, Libya and the northern parts of Mali, Niger and Chad. He writes: "There must have been numerous chariots, and there also must have existed a high degree of organization to enable the use of an animal that cannot adapt to dryness."

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Ulf

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« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2008, 11:30:18 pm »

Riven

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  posted 08-24-2005 04:13 PM                   
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Ulf:

I have an interesting article in TOA II, which discusses a good chronology of rock paintings.

About 10% of Rock Art comes from Europe.

The mesopotamian rock art came later.

Herodotus told us about the 4 horse Chariots of Tritonis.

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.111.[R].Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis.[R].111.

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« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2008, 11:30:58 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-31-2005 08:03 AM                   
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After the Milos Conference where I got knowledge about Frank Joseph, I bought his book: "Survivors of Atlantis", edited in 2004.

From Tom´s link I know, that we must be cautious with Josph´s claims, and I myself found some obvious errors in his other book: "Destruction of Atlantis" which I read first. But I think that he was very hard working to collect all dates about Atlantis and many references he has found may be true.

About the topic of this thread he wrote in chapter 7 "Atlanteans across the Sahara":

"In 1926 a German announced the discovery of Atlantis. Paul Borchardt was a serious investigator dedicated to scientific methodology and the accumulation of hard data. No armchair archeologist, he sought tangible proof himself across the sands of North Africa. In Lybia´s Ahaggar Mountains he met Berbers who had preserved oral traditions of a lost City of Brass."

This might be the source of the legends of the "City of Brass" in "Al-Andalus", written down by Arab/Moorish authors still before the Arabs/Moors conquered Iberia in 711 AD, which José has mentioned in his thread "Old Roman Codex ..."

Further in Joseph´s book:
"Not only was the legend similar to many details found in Plato´s account, but the Berber´s tribal name, "Uneur", resembled the name of the first man of Atlantis mentioned in the "Critias": Euenor.
Another tribe at Shott el Hameina, in Tunisia, bore the even motre striking name of "Attala", which was translated as "Sons of the Source".
The Attala also knew tales of a drowned City of Brass, suggesting the metallic decorations for which the great walls of Atlantis were widely famed." . . .

Everybody who reads this must have the same impression, that the today Berber tribes in North Africa could be the heirs of the ancient Libyans who were according to Plato under the rule of the kings of Atlantis.

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Ulf

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« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2008, 11:31:22 pm »

Brig

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Rate Member   posted 08-31-2005 08:29 AM                   
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Personally I think Atlantis was more than just a city state beyond the Pillars. I think at one time Atlantis conquered most of the areas on the western parts of the Mediterranean sea and northward probably including Ireland, England and southward into the Sahara. If they were stopped by the Greeks, I guess it all depended on how much territory the Greeks controlled at the time.
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« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2008, 11:32:02 pm »

Ulf Richter

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   posted 08-31-2005 03:11 PM                   
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Brig,

I agree with you that Atlantis must have been by far greater as a city state. May be they controlled not only the western half of the Mediterranean, but also parts of the eastern half. There is no evidence that the Greeks could have controlled a much greater territory than today Greece, perhaps some coast areas of Anatolia.

A victory of the 20000 warriors of Early Athens could only have taken place against an expedition corps of the Atlanteans; the whole army of 1,2 millions of warriors was probably not involved. But due to the following catastrophe which destroyed Atlantis there was no opportunity for the Atlanteans to come back.

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Ulf

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