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Was this Atlantis ?

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« on: April 13, 2007, 01:46:47 am »


Contents: Analysis of a theory that the biblic flooding, the by Plato mentionned sinking of Atlantis into the ocean and the nearly instantanious freezing of the Siberia Mammoth's could have been caused by the same natural cataclism.     This is maybe done by an impact of an astriod or komet hurting the Earth 12'000 Years ago.

Wolter Smit, Freelance Computer Engeneer
Personal web site in French and in English 
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 01:51:08 am »


Wolter Smit

Somewhere back in 1987 I got across some books related to The lost continent of Atlantis. The first one was, The Mystery of Atlantis written by Charles Berliz, and published in 1974 by Grosset & Dunlap Inc (German version: ISBN 3-552-02812-9).    The other book was Alte thesen - neue Forschungen written by Otto H.Muck and published in 1976 by Econ Verlag Gmbh (ISBN 3-430-16837-6).    Then later, somewhere in 1996, I started to investigate more on this subject, and also started the gathering of data, pictures and other information that year.
The theory advanced by Otto H.Muck looked to me the closed to what could have been the truth, however since of 1997 satalite data has become available to public, published in France by IFREMER , from where I downloaded the necessary altitude data (Military and Commercial use prohibited).    I have been working occasionally since 1996 on this project trying to get Data together, verify some of Otto H.Muck figures and data.    Because Otto H.Muck had collected his data from the late 50's until the early 60's, which did not seem to match actual available data.
In this pages I will try to reconstruct what Otto H.Muck was trying to do, but give it my interpretation, considering that Plato must have been right in some extend with his story, but by considering some margins, (a foot must be between 22 and 40 cm etc.) especially mentionings about sizes and placement.    Plato's mentionings about things wich are not there any longer and things which should be still be there should also be considered, in this case we should know what to look for and what not to look for.
I do not want to consider things about magic crytals, mysterious energies, UFO's or other similar stuff as long this does not explain a possible natural desaster.    As well, I do not beleive that things like islands can disappear into nothing, and that this islands can disappear without leaving as single trace.    This looks like someone trying to commit a perfect crime, it does not exist, then there must always be some trace left somewhere.    But it is possible that we do not see it, because it is either unbelievable or we did simply not look for the right thing at the right place, or look at the things at the right scale.
However I have been spending a fair amount of time in filtering and gathering the necessary data and pictures, as well make a programm to generate de maps.    I had to find ou a method to re-map the world coordinates in case of a pole displacement, and an other program to do some simple climat simulation and make this things fit close enough to reality.    Then all the maps shown on this site are computer generated and based on real data    I did not invent anything besides the correction maps, in which I had to imagine the possible changes in order to reflect the sinking of the North Atlantic ocean floor and the rising of some continents.    I had, since this data is still unknown, and nobody has any reasonable idee what could have happened, to imagine how ocean floor and continents could have been moved by the consequence of a possible natural disaster, or any other reason why they could have been moved.
Where to start
Where to start is the real question, then there are many things who could be related to Atlantis like the biblical flooding (also metioned by Plato to, who wrote: « There occurred violent earthquakes and floods » and « For the fact is that a single night of excessive rain washed away the earth and laid bare the rock »), the prediluvian climat change could alse be related to Atlantis, as well the climat warming up since 12'000 years ago.    We should also not forget to ask ourselves « Did Atlantis ever exist » and « If Atlantis ever existed, Where did Atlantis exist ». (Plato wrote about that: « There are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away »)    Where are the sacred memorials which sould still exist according to Plato, who wrote: « There may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying. » is The Bimini Wall, discovered in 1968 one of them?   On the other hand Plato insisted in this story being true in writing about an egyptian priest: « Concerning the country the Egyptian priests said what is not only probable but manifestly true. ». Then Plato was convinced that the story was true, even then he could never have verified anything about it.   So let's start with asking questions to be answered, then what to look for, what happened and a possible timescale.
Why, When, What and Where
Questions to be answered
•   Where was Atlantis.
•   Can an Island sink into nothing, without leaving a trace.
•   How big was it, or how big should it be.
•   Was the North Pole (and South) in the actual place.
•   When the poles did shift, how can we shift a pole.
•   How do tectonic plates fit with an island in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.
•   How comes that mammoths got frozen such that their bodies are left intact.
•   Why did Siberia and a part oif Alaska have a climat corresponding to 1'500 Km's further south.
•   And Why had Central Europe and North America a clilmat corresponding to 1'500 Km's further north.
•   In case of a flooding by rain, where did the water came from.
•   If the flooding rain came from the Atlantic ocean, the evaporation would have taken an enormous quantity of heat, wich has to be explained.
•   When someting sinks, something else will have to come up, so if Atlantis sunk, where did the material go.
•   Why does the Earth tilt of axis not match the Orbital inclination of the Moon (Difference 18°).
•   Why do some Mayan and Inca monuments show an misalignment of ~17° east with actual north.
•   Did the earth always rotate at the same speed, did it accelerate or did it slow down.
•   Why does the center of the ice cap of 10'000 BC show a difference of ~12° to ~20° towards actual north.
•   Could the actual magnetic pole have been Pole before.
•   Could the weigth of the Ice Cap have moved the pole as some people suggest.
•   Has the South American Continent been moved up.
•   Did The Australian continent move up to.
•   Does the Maya Calendar Year « 0 » correspond to Planet alignements.
•   Does the timescale Mentioned by Plato (between 8'500 BC and 10'000 BC) correspond to Planet alignments?.
•   Do the timescales of Plato or the Maya Calendar correspond to Earth climat changes?.
•   Did a part of the Atlantis survivors become the jewish people?.
•   Did the survivors of Cayce's Followers Of Belial become the Egyptian, Inca and Maya cultures?.
•   One of the first known monotheist population lived somewhere in Iran from 550 BC until around 600,
they had sacred temples with sacred fires like Cayce's Followers Of the Law of One had, where they also survivors?.

What to look for.
•   Possible places within the limits of Platos story.
•   Minimum population count (Someone will have to feed the Army of 1'200'000 people).
•   Planet alignments and their dates (Data source: Nasa).
•   Traces of heavy rainfall.
•   Possible position of the poles.
•   Possible places for Astriod et Meteor impact and their traces.
•   Maya Calendar matches, if any.
•   Possible length of day, was a day shorter as now or was a day longer (Between 23 Hrs and 25 Hrs?).

•   10'700 BC That where Edgar Cayce situates the Atlantis disaster (No corresponding lignup).
•     9'895 BC Big planets, Venus and Moon lignup (within +/- 10%) end March.
•     9'792 BC Dendιrah Zodiac contains special sign in Lion. (Very close lignup!!!)
•     9'716 BC Big planets, Venus and Moon lignup (within +/- 10%) in February.
•     9'600 BC That where Plato situates the Atlantis disaster. (Pato wrote the dialogs 380 BC and the story is told by Solon at 600 BC and the event is supposed to be 9'000 years before that. Whithin a 200 year margin, any date from 9'400 BC until 9'800BC will do.)
•     9'537 BC Big planets, Venus and Moon lignup (within +/- 5%) in January.
•     8'238 BC Cycle « -1 » of the Maya calendar (No corresponding lignup).
•     3'113 BC Cycle « 0 » of the Maya calendar (No corresponding lignup).
•     2'794 BC Maya calendar points to an unknown event ( -
•     1'5xx BC Volcanic disaster distroys Thera and the Minoan civilization.
•     1'2xx BC Ramses II, jewish people quit Egypt.
•        380 BC Plato wrote the Timaeus and Critias dialogs.
•     1'882        « Atlantis - The Atediluvian World » is written by Ignatius Donnelly.
•     1'924        « The Problem of Atlantis » is written by Lewis Spence.
•     1'960        Ruins of ancient cities on Thera are discovered.
•     1'968        The Bimini Wall is Discovered.
•     1'976        « Alles όber Atlantis, Alte Thesen - neue forshungen » is written by Otto H.Muck.
Interesting Web Sites
•   Nasa
•   More about Edgar Cayce
•   Edgar Cayce on Ancient Civilizations - (Take my mirror pages if unavailable)
•   Association for Research and Enlightenment
•   The Mystrious & unexplained Site Home Page
•   The Mystrious & unexplained Atlantis Page
•   Atlantis - The Lost Continent Finally Found.
•   Atlantis - Forbidden Archeology.
•   Corroborating evidence on the reality of Atlantis.


Wolter Smit, Freelance Computer Engeneer
Personal web site in French and in English

« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 01:59:39 am by Atlas » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 01:57:17 am »

Frequently mentioned places:

•   It was nowhere, Plato used it to illustrate his dialogs.
•   It was the later destroyed island of Thera.
•   It was situated somewhere in Indonesia.
•   It was below the ice of what is now Antarctica.
•   It was the Celtic Shelf.
•   It was the German island Helgoland (joke).
•   It was the Madeira ridge. (Banc Ampιre etc.)
•   It is still there where it was, it was part of the mid atlantic ridge.

What to look for.
•   There may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed (Plato citation).
•   Hot water sources and fountains.
•   To be outside of the « Pillars of Hercules ».
•   Minimum size to have a plain of +/- 500 Kms by +/- 200 Kms including the surrounding mountains, able to feed a population having an army of 1'200'000 men.
•   Mountains on the northern part.
•   Volcano's or volcanic activity.
•   Antarctica and Greenland were covered with ice for at least 100'000 years or more, and cannot have been possible places.
What is not there any longer.
•   Hunan constructions like houses and roads.
•   The richer and softer parts of the soil (Plato citation).
•   Anything unable to resist to earthquakes of a magnitude 8 or higher.

The Atlantic Ocean Floor.

Image of the Atlantic Ocean in special coloring in order to show the profile of the Atlantic Ocean floor. (Blue color is proportional to depth)
We can clearly distinguish something like a huge ridge or a small continental plate between Spain and the Northern American Continent.
Further The North Atlantic Ocean floor looks like to be lowered from the line Ireland-New Foundland until the line Liberia-French Ginee.    It seems to me that the all-over depth of the Northern part of the Atlantic Ocean is a lot lower than the all-over depth of the Southern part of the Atlantic Ocean as well as the all-over depth of the other oceans.   Thus considering that this part of the ocean could have been lowered by some cataclysmic event.
This picture has been used to create the correction data which is used to put the all-over depth of the Northern Atlantic back to the corresponding all-over depth of the remaining oceans.    Then the other oceans are only deep there where the continental plates run into each other but not there where the continental plates run away from each other.    It is still possible that the southern part was lowered to, but I did not find any visible sign of this, besides the Cogo River canyon, which runs until a depth of 2'000 meters, but it is the only one.    Than in case of a lowering of the southern part of the Atlantic ocean, the South American Amazone river should have had a similar canyon to, but I did not find any sign of one.

The Madeira region.

The Madeira ridge, this region could have been above the water level in the past, since constructions have been seen on the Ampιre sea-mount.
However it looks to me to close to the coastline to justify a sinking of about 3'500 meters, it is not impossible but personally I doubt it.
Further this region does not have the required size of having of population able the feed an army of 1'200'000 man, neither the required size for plain of about 500 Kms by 200 Kms (according to Plato).

The Greec island of Thera.

This illustration shows the area around Greece and the Greec island of Thera at the time before the rising of the sea-level and the supposed displacement of the poles.     This only shows that Greece was of a fair size at that time, but there is still no space for an island like Atlantis, even not when dividing everything by ten, like some scientist pretend.     Note that Greece has on this illustration has different north south orientation as it has today, this due to the supposed pole shift.
An Other interesting point of this picture is, as we know now, that the Black Sea had no connction with the Mediterian Sea and had possibly not only a different level, but was a lake to.

The mid Atlantic ridge around the Acores islands.

Map of the island of Atlantis, picture obtained by correcting the northern Atlantic region up, so that the overall depth matches the overall depth of the southern Atlantic ocean and the overall depth of the other oceans.
   The north pole is positioned such that the pole is on the center of the predeluvian ice-cap, there where one would expect it to be.
   The total size of the map is 4'800 Kms by 7'080 Kms, and the island itself is about 1'450 Kms wide and 3'200 Kms long, and the tail is about 2'000 Kms.
   This leaves in south center part place for a plain of about 500 Kms by 200 Kms, corresponding to the sizes mentioned by Plato, considering a foot to be between 25 Cm and 40 Cm, then the exact size of a Atlatean foot remains today unknown.    The even Europe had in the past as many sizes for foots and inches as there were kings and towns.    The Frech revolution and Napoleon did put an end to this nonsense.
Dont forget Plato's writing « There are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away » so do not expect to find much leftovers of this island, and anyway diving down there with a vehicle with a sight of no more 10 meters searching for any trace in an area of 1'450 Kms by 3'200 Kms looks like predicting the stock market by analyzing the Wallstreet Journal with a microscope.
However heavy constructions like pyramids and parts being digged out of the rocks to make place for canals should still be visible (in fact, the map does show such a canal of about 550 kms long !!), as well the remains of the sacred memorials.

The prediluvian worldmap.

Map of the prediluvian world obtained by applying the correction data to the northern Atlantic ocean, and the south American continental plate. (which looks to me as been lifted up by 1'000 to 2'000 meters)    I expect the the australian sub continent as well to be lifted up by an unknown amount. (More on this subject in «  Continent changes & tectonic plate alignment »)
Not only that my climate simulation program matches the pre-deluvean ice-cap cover, but it shows also that a part of Alaska and Siberia suold have been free of ice, as we suspect it was 12'000 years ago.    Europe and Northern America and Canada however should have been covered with ice, which also matches very closely the known situation of 12'000 years ago.
The simulation of lifting up a part of the Mid-Atlantic ocean floor shows the island of Atlantis is indeed in front of the «  Pillars of Hercules » being the straits of Gibraltar, where it is supposed to be according Plato's dialogs.
Interesting part of this map is the size of the Indonesian sub-continent, we could imagine an other empire over there as many have suggested.   Maybe this was the where the famous « Rama and Lemurian Civilizations » lived?, who should have lived somewhere around in this region, but nobody has found there any trace nor even writing about it, we only suspect thier existence. (To know more try the web-site « Ancient Indian Arcraft Technology » or take a look at the Ancient empire page of « The Adelphi Organization »)


Wolter Smit, Freelance Computer Engeneer
Personal web site in French and in English

« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 01:58:58 am by Atlas » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 02:06:18 am »

Why and how did the poles shift ?

What, Where and Why.
•   Have the poles always been in the actual position, if not where were they?
•   The poles tend to shift, but this takes 26'000 years and is a very slow process.
•   When the North and South pole did shift, how can we shift a pole?.
•   Could the Ice-Cap have destabilized the earth rotation, does it have enough mass to do this?.
•   Why does the Earth tilt of axis not match the Orbital inclination of the Moon (Difference +/- 18°), then the Earth-Moon combination is a binary system which tends to synchonize their movements.
•   Has the misalignment of +/- 17° towards actual North of some Maya temples in the Yucatan to do whith a possible pole displacement?
•   Did the Earth always rotate at the same speed, or did it rotate faster (Days are shorter = more days in a Year), or did it rotate slower (Days are longer = less day in a Year)?.
•   Why does the center of the ice cap of 10'000 BC show a difference of 12° to 20° towards actual North?.
•   Could the actual Magnetic pole have been the North pole 12'000 Years ago?.
•   Could the center of the IceCap of 10'000 BC have been the Nort Pole (Situates on Actual GreenLand)?.
•   Modifying the Earth rotation speed and angle chages the pole position to, but requires a fair amount of energie, producing however an immediate effect (This is what likly happened anyway, see more in « How did it happen »).
Considerations, what could and what could not happen.
•   Mammoths have been frozen complete and intact, which gives us a time-scale of 24 hours maximum.
•   The total mass of the IceCap of 12'000 years ago makes 0.0005 % of the total mass of the Earth, so dont expect this to make any difference.
•   An colission whith an astriod or comet in the right place and the right angle produces this (un)disired effect, like someone playing billard making the billardball spin by hitting it a particular way.
•   The Earth is a ball and as such a symetric object which can, in upposite to a toll, spin in any direction.
•   Because of the gyroscopic effect of its rotation, the Earth will not chanche position by itself without an influance of an external force (Sun, Moon or colision with an object).
•   The Earth - Moon combination is a binary star system, which stabilizes the rotation, and ihibits such movements as the movements of rotation axis we can observe from other planets of our solar system, who do not have a « sabilizer ».
Earth tilt of axis difference with the orbital inclination of the moon.
   We could expect that the Eath tilt of axis would (and probably should) match an angle of 90° with the orbital inclination of the moon, and this due to the stabilization effect of the Moon rotating around the Earth.     Then in case of a big difference, the gravitional forces and the tides would probably pull this rotation axis slowly back in its original place anyway.
   There could be, of course a difference in this alignment, but not as big as actual.     The actual difference is about tha same as the expected difference between the center of the Ice-Cap (Suspected to have been on the center of Greenland e.g. 12° to 17° of to the actual Pole position) and the actual Pole position.

   This illustration shows how the tilt of the rotation axis of the Earth could have been changed by an impact of an celestical object, such as an astriod or comet.
   This could only have happened at mid summer or at mid winter when the tilt of the Earth rotation axis was in the right angular position.     In other words the shift has been taken place in this direction, than in any other case the tilt of the Earth rotation axis would have had an other orientation towards the Moon's. orbital inclination angle as the Earth has today.     The same situation repeats mid winter, when the orientation repeats in the opposite direction ( Position of Sun and Earth reversed in the above picture).

    Note: the actual angular difference of the orbital inclination of the Moon with the tilt of axis of the Earth is about 18°, and the center of Greenland toward the Nortpole is also +/- 17°, as well was the center of the IceCap 12'000 years ago.
    Siberia with it's Frozen Mammoths seem to have had a climat shitft of also around 17° towards north, and this shift must have been so fast that the Mammoths have been frozen instantainiously, then some of then did not finish eating there food or even have digested it, which limits the amount of time the event happened to a few hours, and not days or even weeks.
    The present image, showing the Earth seen from the pole, illustrates that indeed a pole mouvement from the center of Greenland towards the actual position, moves Siberia about 1'500 Kms futher north. (And the upposite side further south)
    This is the position used by the rest of the prediluvian maps and climat simulation in order to simulate the possible position of the Ice cap.
Could the orientation of some Maya temples be an indication of a pole shift?
    This drawing shows a Maya temple with some unusual mis-orientation of 17° towards west, I have used this drawing to see or pole-shift would put the main orientation of most of the elements to an North - South and East - West position.     Then an other orientation of the poles gives different results, this depending on the place on Earth.     Then some do move their North - South orientation to the West as in other places the orientation goes the in the other direction.

    This drawing shows the same temple as above, but with an orientation shift of 17° as the temple would have had before the pole shift had taken place from it's pre-diluvian position on GreenLand to it's actual position.
    It could be that the Maya's did build some of their temples on top of older existing temples (It is known that they did indeed do this from time to time).
    They would likely have build one or more of their temples on top of much older existing ones and conserved by doing so their original position.
    The actual ones are not so old that they could be 12'000 years old.     It is very unlikely that the Maya's existed that time, and it is more likely that they did follow up an other pre-existing culture, like the Aztec's picked up their culture and contignued it.
Did the Earth rotate always at the same speed?
    This is a strange question, because it not rather likely that the Earth has always been rotating in the same angle and at the same speed, than any modification in the rotating enregy from the outside will modify more or less the roting speed and possibly also the rotating angle.
    If hovever the speed and rotation angle gets modified, the pole position and the length af day will change to, and therefore any celestical object with a size of over 1 km and a speed of 10 km /sec or more will cause a significant change of both pole position and day length.     This will cause as side effect a change in the number of days in a year to.     Then the number of days in a year is the duration of the year divided by the duration of a day, so when a day gets longer, we will get lesser days in year, and on the other hand, a shorter day will give us more days in the year.
    We can in fact shift a pole by modifying, adding and subtracting speed vectors in different angles on the existing rotation speed and angle of the Earth.     Than even when this does not physicaly shifts the poles, it does shift the center of rotation axis which produces the result anyway.     But the change however may take a up to day, this depending on the location (Up to one full rotation) to take effect.    This was a quarter of a turn for the place where the Mammoths were, which gave them no more as a maximum of 6 hours left to live.

   The impact slows down the rotation speed of the Earth and is therefore in opposite direction to the Earth rotation.
Black:    New speed = 462 Ms/sec (Actual)
Blue:     Old speed    = 481 Ms/sec
Red:      Subtracted  = 135 Ms/sec
A day was: +/- 23 Hrs, and we had about 380 days in a year.

   The impact accelerates the rotation speed of the Earth and is therefore in the same direction as the Earth rotation.
Blue:    Old speed  = 442 Ms/sec
Black:  New speed = 462 Ms/sec (Actual)
Red:     Added        = 135 Ms/sec
A day was: +/- 25 Hrs, and we had about 349 days in a year.

Table of speed differences and object sizes in order to obtain the above results.
Speed in Km / sec   Size in Km   Estimation of an celestic object hurting the Earth, considering that the density of the object is 8 Kg /dm3 and that 80% of the kinetic energie will be converted into rotation motion of the Earth thereby considering that 50% of the total mass is accelerated by 66% of the additionnel rotation speed and the density of the Earth is 5 Kg /dm3 .   The remaining energie will be converted to heat and is transfered to the environnement (probably the ocean water).
The results of this table can be used to search for a crater, then the size of a crater is about 10 times the size of the object.
10   105,14   
20   66,24   
30   50,55   
40   41,73   
50   35,96   
60   31,84   
70   28,73   
80   26,29   

Note:     The total amount of energie needed is 296 X 10 18 Kgm /sec, from which 59 X 10 18 Kgm /sec is converted into heat during the impact and the remaining 237 X 10 18 Kgm /sec is converted into additional rotation speed of the Earth, modifying by doing so the rotation axis of our Earth, and thereby shifting indirectly the poles.
Possible places of impact
To produce the (un)disired effect of the above mentioned poleshift, as mentioned above, must be done by modifying the Earth rotation angle and speed.     The Earth must be therefore be hit under an vertical angle of 30° - 60° in one of the following places.     Having hit the Earth somewere else would have produced a different effect, and could therefore not mach the actual situation.
Impact is in the same direction as the Earth rotation.
(Duration of a day was 25 Hrs - 349 Days / Year)   Inpact is in opposite direction to the Earth rotation.
(Duration of a day was 23 Hrs - 380 Days / Year)
Bermuda triangle   North -West Pasific Ocean
20N - 40N
60W - 100W
Note: Crater of 500 X 700 Kms at Charleston coast.   40N - 70N
140E - 180E
Note: No visible trace of Impact found
Australia   South of Cape Town
20S - 40S
80E - 120E
Note: No visible trace at Australian continent.   40S - 70S
0 - 40W
Note: No visible trace of Impact found

Note:   The bermuda region has indeed some craters, and the one at the Charleston coast is one of them. This particular crater seem to match the one of thre object sizes stated in a previous table, than a crater is usually about 10 times the size of the object causing it.
   The eliptic shape of the crater could also mean the impact was at an agle of 30° to 60° with the surface, and opened up, due to it size, mass and speed, the whole ocean floor at that place, and possibly ripped open the whole of 60'000 Km continatal plate border lines.

Wolter Smit, Freelance Computer Engeneer
Personal web site in French and in English
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