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900 or 9000 Years BC?


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Helios
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« Reply #240 on: March 21, 2008, 09:09:26 pm »

 
dhill757

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Rockessence, you bet the Greeks were great fighters, and they really crushed Mussolini when he tried to conquer them in 1942. The fact that Hitler had to send troops to Greece delayed his invasion into Russia, which, in the end helped him to lose the war.
The best moment for me, though, is when they fought off the Persians...long live Sparta!!


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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004
 
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #241 on: March 21, 2008, 09:10:07 pm »

Chronos

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   posted 08-05-2004 08:11 AM                       
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Dhill,
A REFERENCE TO ATLANTIS THAT PREDATES PLATO

Hellanicus, a Greek writer who died in 410 b.c. had a writing entitled "Atlantis." Plato's account is frequently date to around 350 b.c. This would be the first reference to Atlantis in history. This work survives only in fragments and primarily describes Atlas and his daughters (the reference comes from the Andrew Collins book "Gateway to Atlantis.") Collins places little importance on it, but since, as I said, the work is only a fragment, how can we say what exactly was in this account? It mentions Atlas, his seven daughters (taken to be seven islands) and it mentions Poseidon.

Has Hellanicus ever been discussed prior to this on the forum?


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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #242 on: March 21, 2008, 09:10:56 pm »

rockessence

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dhill,
I am half Greek...born in Salonika. My family lived there for 5 years after the Germans left. My dad was with the Red Cross and then with UNESCO doing relief work. I have 3 Greek foster-sisters and brother. I went to Crete in 79 with my sister Elanie, to her village near Heraklion, helped to bring in the grape harvest to make raisins, hiked down the Samaria Gorge.

I have always claimed to be a descendant of Alexander (a joke) until I saw a statue in the J. Paul Getty Museum collection of a pre-Hellenic woman 7 feet tall that looked just like me. This statue, I now think, may portray a person (goddess) of Nordic origin. Maybe my interest in the Bock history is because of racial memory(?)


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Posts: 3128 | From: Port Townsend WA | Registered: Feb 2004   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #243 on: March 21, 2008, 09:11:32 pm »

dhill757

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Chronos,
Hellenicus hasn't been discussed here until recently. On the other hand, there doesn't seem much to discuss since, from what I've seen of that work anyway, it survives only in a fragment and doesn't really tell us much of anything, other than, like you say, it refers to Atlas, too.

It does bear more investigation, though. I've noticed on a lot of the websites referring to "pre-Platonic writings referring to Atlantis." Hellenicus is seldom mentioned among them even though he should be. Just the fact that the work is entitled "Atlantis" and it exists over a hundred years before Plato should tell us it has some relationship to the original story.

By the way, I'd like to say that a lot of the new members here, like yourself and some of the others have really added a lot to the forum lately. It's good to see such a clear commitment to the research.


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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004 
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #244 on: March 21, 2008, 09:12:17 pm »

dhill757

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Rockessence,
Sounds like you've led a very colorful existence! I'm envious, did you ever go to Athens and Sparta while you were living in Greece? My favorite "cultures" of the Mediterranean are Greece and Egypt, of course, but I would also like to check out Crete, Santorini, Cyprus, Malta, Sicily and Sardinia...coincidentally, all have been linked to Atlantis, of course!

I suppose, if I had Greek blood in me, I would claim I was a descendent of Alexander, too. He already conquered the known world at the age of 32. Alexander, by the way, claimed to be a descendent of Achilles. There is a story that when he went to visit Troy, he left his sword there and took Achilles' sword instead, which is why he had so much success..!


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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #245 on: March 21, 2008, 09:12:55 pm »

Chronos

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Dhill,
I am still researching Hellenicus. This is interesting, Plato was born, I believe, off hand, at 429 b.c. Hellenicus died at 410 b.c. We can assume that his work "Atlantis" was known to Plato at the time of his youth. The name perhaps came from this work if nothing else, irregardless of it's content.

Now, if we also assume that Plato heard the story of Atlantis in his youth as he positions the young Critias to have done, then many of the pieces fall into place.

I'm convinced that others also knew the story of Solon and that the rest of "Atlantis" by Hellenicus might well have had another story of Atlantis...I suppose we'll never know.

Other observations:

* While researching material for the Library of Alexandria, it is interesting that even the scholars of that time also could not seem able to decide if the Atlantis story was a fact of a fiction.

* As you say in your new thread, there seems to be no mistaking exactly where the Pillars of Hercules were.

* New information has also come to light to me that the time frame Plato sets the tale, 9000 years before Solon, might also well be more accurate than scholars frequenly give it credit for.

* From my reseach, of which the source escapes me at the moment, there was a five year gap between when Plato wrote Timaeus, the earlier, and Critias, the later.

* Plutarch also refers to Critias with the title "Atlanticus," meaning that the ancients might well have known the dialogue by a different title.

All these details were revelations to me. If you haven't read Andrew Collins' fine book, "Gateway to Atlantis," I suggest you get a copy. It is the best researched work in it's field.



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Posts: 1008 | From: various | Registered: Jul 2004   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #246 on: March 21, 2008, 09:13:46 pm »

 
dhill757

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   posted 08-12-2004 07:57 PM                       
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quote:
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The wrong turn of science
Science made a wrong turn in the early 1800's and the consequences are still with us. However, recent science is beginning to see the mistake and send us in the right direction. As this unfolds the result will be a major rewriting of the sciences of geology, archeology and anthropology. We have to substantially revise our understanding of the history of man and civilization. But on to that first mistake.
As geology was first becomming a science in the early 1800's, there was an evident problem - the eratics. The eratics were giant rocks, piles of gravel, and major striations (scratches) on rock surfaces that should not be there. Huge rocks are resting in the middle of fields and on mountain tops. Piles of gravel are in odd places, always on the same side of the mountain. The striations all go from Northwest to Southeast. How did they get there?

The most natural answer is that wild running water from some catastrophe was the cause. But this has two problems. The first: who wants to think water was running wild like that? Second: it is all too biblical. It is too reminicient of Noah's flood. And if you are starting a new "respectable" science you certainly want to avoid confirming such a distinct biblical event.

Happily for those who did not like wild running water in their immediate history, Charles Lyell came upon the scene and published Principles of Geology in 1830. Lyell rearranged the geological thinking of the day and introduced "uniformitarianism". He asserted that changes come about slowly by natural means. (The opposite view is "catastrophism". Catastrophism asserts that occassional catastrophies occur and contribute significantly to explaining some of the geological structures we find around us.)

Lyell adopted the views of Agassiz and explained that the eratics had been caused by slow moving glaciers. The concept of the "ice ages" has generally been accepted since then.

All of this has considerable connection to Atlantis. First the physical evidence that Lyell explained away was not explained away. It still needs an explanation. When properly examined, we conclude there was indeed a massive earth-wide catastrophe and it easily sunk the whole island, or continent, of Atlantis - despite the claims of geologists that such a thing cannot happen.

Moreover, the rise of civilization is connected to this event. Traditional science has very carefully pieced together the evidence that shows a gradual growth of civilization beginning around the end of the last ice age approximately 8,000 BC to 10,000 BC. At that time, we are told that mankind began the transition from hunter/gatherer to agriculture. Afterall, the ice had receded and conditions were then appropriate for such a change.

However, in the revised view, mankind did indeed have a civilization existing before the 10,000 BC date. An earth-wide catastrophe occurred around 10,000 BC. It sunk Atlantis. It raised the major mountain chains of today. It destroyed the civilization of the time. We are lucky some remnant of the human species survived. Records were destroyed and History forgotten. Those who survived had to begin the arduous process of rebuilding civilization while the past progress was forgotten.

Radical? Yes. But there is much evidence in the geological record. Consider first those ice ages that were supposed to have covered one third of the surface of the earth, including oceans.

Water flows downhill. So does ice. Ice never flows uphill. Ice can flow on level ground for 7 miles. Therefore, the scientists of the 1800's reasoned, there were giant mountains at the north pole that had generated the ice and from which the ice flowed southward and created the ice-age. Those polar mountains were totally taken for granted by the scientists. But in all these years those mountains have never been found! And furthermore those mountains must have gone down and then up again in order to account for the admitted gaps inbetween the ice-ages. But there have never been any yo-yo mountains at the north pole.

Worse yet, there are eratics where the glaciers never reached. There are eratics in the Sahara desert and elsewhere.

Yes there are glaciers. But there was not the ice age that science asserts. (Did you ever notice that the human figures on the cave wall paintings were dressed for warm weather?)

There are caves and other collections that show utter massive chaos. The piles contain prey, and predator, tree trunks and humans all piled up, obviously thrown together in a massive disaster.

Yes, the frozen mamoths that you may have heard of are also relevant. There was rapid disaster, a shift of the earth's axis was involved.

The evidence from geology exists to confirm that disaster. Myths from around the world confirm the disaster. (The bible of the mid-east says the sun stood still for three days. On the other side of the earth myth says night endured for 3 full days). And much other evidence exists as well. To get an idea of the range of evidence check Ignatius Donnelly's "Atlantis: The Antideluvial World". Today, for even more evidence we can look at the underwater discoveries and see some of the building of the Atlanteans themselves. On this site we also show some of the evidence from archealogy, anthropolgy, and linquistics.

Simple conclusion: the only rational evidence of the scientific evidence is that there was a major catastrophe that was earth-wide and caused the sinking of Atlantis.

Plato was right.

For an excellent description of these issues we highly recommend Cataclysm! by Allan & Delair, a book with much more of the scienfic evidence.


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http://www.atlantissource.com/science/science.htm
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Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004
 
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #247 on: March 21, 2008, 09:15:16 pm »

Riven

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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #248 on: March 21, 2008, 09:16:01 pm »

cleasterwood

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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #249 on: March 21, 2008, 09:16:59 pm »

BlueHue

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quote:
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Originally posted by dhill757:
Here is a quote from this website that covers some of the events from 9000 b.c. nicely that I did not know about: http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/doom/atlantis_doom.htm

We can only speculate about the
circumstances under which
Atlantis disappeared. Some
theories suggest that there was a
huge asteroid which shifted the
poles, split the Atlantic basin and
created the Caribbean region.
Others assume that Atlantis was
doomed to sink because of a
catastrophic earthquake together
with volcanic eruptions. A fairly
plausible explanation concerns the
melting of the poles at the end of
the Würm Ice Age 12 000 years
ago.

The point in time when Atlantis
The dates given would even agree with Plato’s writings.
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DEAR . . DHILL,

 At the behest of your question to explain, verify or otherwise"Proof"or give evidence of my theory that Atlantis WAS ADEN/ Eden I hereby give the following general Reply, I have become a cynic-replicant,

for against all circumstatial evidence people/forummembers stubbornly refuse to read or understand my drift: Plato was wrongly translated thus ALL but I mean really, ALL current theories however eloquently put, that do not consern ADEN as Atlantis, are intrinsically worthless, this is hard to accept but it is the ugly truth.


 PLATON for some silly reason mingled two Kataklysms,Tsunami's between which, Atlantis rose and sunk. Atlantis existed only 200 years inbetween 1075--855 bc. and was handed out to 2 Team kings that stared to fight over their Sister

these 2 kings were Prometheus & Epimetheus and the Sister's name was: PYRRHA.
Plato mentioned that Atlas was the son of Poseidon, but Poseidon was a son of Japethus.

This is a fine, fine exemple of a mistranslation of PLATO ! Poseidon is not also Japethos in another Myth, because Japethos is his royal title:"KING-of-PUNT"; likewise, "ATLAS"is no personal name it simply means: Litterally "ATHE-RAS"= Grand-King-of-Athe".

So in the sequence:{Poseidon/japethos, handed out the Lands or territories of Atlantis, to his "3 Sons:"Atlas and his brothers Epimetheus & Prometheus, the PERSON :"Atlas"does not exist! (The name Minos is now also thought of as a Title and not a peronal name.)

This quarrel Plato is talkingh about happeneds in 1055-1050 bc. the 2 Tsunami's that Plato placed at the end of the Civil War between the Atlanteans & Athenians(= same people.)rather occured in 1075 & 855 bc. After the civil war some of the Atlantean Tribes called the MINEANS went/emigrated to Crete in 1050 bc and founded the Cretan Minoans.

Thus the explosion of AKROTIKI on Thera/Santorini, that covered the cities of Crete under a Pumicelayer of 10 meters happened in 855 bc and NOT about 1190 nor 1600 bc.

This maybe onorthodox, but that's what we call an historic discovery. Thanks to dr V.we also know that the 1600 bc date, for Crete's Minoan civilisation should have been Circa: 1100-1050 bc.

And indeed both Tsunami's had the same cause not a giant Asteroid but the MOO(=Dione or Diana.) itself that diverted from it's Path: and cracked new Oceans open. it was alternatively named: "TYPHON/ Phaëthon and TYPHON-Neus or DiONE-Neus.

The Tidalwave went over the Globe like a Tsunami. Earth stopped momentarity in it's path whilst the Mountainlakes emptied because their watercontent was over the Oceans.

in 1075 bc. ithat Moon-collision, cracked not only the carribean open, but also caused the Himalayans ( and the Andes.)to rise, NOTE that the rising of the Himalayans cannot be attributed to millions of Years ago because the ( partly eroded.)topsoil dates from only 2.000 bc well into the Quarternary-Lakeburst Time.

The second Moon-Collision (in: 855 bc.)caused the melted Poles to switch places called a "TIPPE-TOP" movement, which deplaced the watercontent of the Mountainlakes right into the dry Oceans and thus the former lakes of Atlantis became Sandy-Deserts.

A Sad Sidestory is that the whailing and crying Elephants that warned the humans about the on-comming catastrophe/Kataclysm were thought of as the causers of Earth-Quake of 855 bc.and were thus made extinct as an Elephant raced in South-Arabia.

EVIDENCEof "BLUEHUE's "THEORY:"ADEN=EDEN=ATLANTIS"

The Location of Atlantis has been blurred for 2.000 yeears now, because of a simple translation-Errpr that has been overlooked and taken for Granted: Atlantis is not and never hads been a single island in the Middle of the Atlantic.

It was rather in the middle not of the Ocean, but inbetween, the two Landmasses that are erroneously named Asia & Lybia.

100 Atlantologists were dumfolded by this at the Melos Atlantis Conference back in 2005, their ignorance was bliss they blindly followed the wrong translation, because non of them bothererd to look past the English translation ( from 1925.)

Thanks to "Georgeos"who gave me a direct insight into the nature of the wrong translation I solved the riddle of the Position of Atlantis.

MESOS may mean "as-Big-as- or Mightier-than" as Georgeos has put it, but the original P{hrase was not Mesos but: Mezos meaning:"IN- BETWEEN" Asia & Lybia, which -ofcouse- rules out any Location outside the mediaterranean and thus America,

Gottland and the FarEast/Indonesia are OUT-down and out OFF, but The theorist stubbornly persist on their wild theories of Bimini or the Indian Gujarat-Coasts.

Let us finally view that Textus-Receptus that has fooled the general public for the past 2000 years:

" PHOEBUS . ATHON . ATLANTIDES . IGNES . MEMORAT et PLATO . MAIOREM . ASIAE . vel . AFRICAE . TERRAM . ATLANTICO . MARI . EREPTAM . ESSE DETTETAM . EX- ATLANTICO . ATLANTIS-NESSOS.

A free lranslation confirms that the peninsular Atlantis was overcome by a Tsunami, inbetween the coasts of Asia(=Major thus Arabia and not Minor or Turkey.)and Africa-Major, which is not Lybia but EAST-Africa more precisely French-Somalia.)

Nesos MAY BE AN INSULA, but in combination with a Land-name it means PENinsula ( like Georgeos said: Pelopponessos.)Tartessos is a word-corruption of TSUR-NESSOS ( which is SUR in Oman.)

Atlantis thus was not IN the Atlantic but at a sidebrance at the Perifery of an ("Atlantic")Ocean
thgis is partly a falsehood, because Plato states that this OCEAN was named as-a-whole: the World-Ocean, and only a part was named:"The Atlantic"this was a SEA-Brance better distinguised as a "BRAZ-de-MER or rather a GULF( the-GULF-of-Aden.)

The fact that Pilot-Major COLON/ Columbus held his arabic Atlantis Sea-Chart upside-Down and thus named BRAZILLE as Atlantis on-a-Gulf: or "BRAZ--de-MER" means that dispite his desoriëntation, he recognized that Atlantis was not directly facing the Atlantic-Ocean.

Georgeos has been fooling himself despite his cunning transdlations of Plato, by placing any underwater--isle outside the Pillars, IN the Atlantic, where there is neither an ASIA, nor a LYBIA insight. His CAPE-Spartel-island proposal was just a red haring to start the Atlantiis-Hype in 2003 to finance his reseach, in cahoots with Prof.Collina-Girard.

But the french assistant Marc Gutscher had to admid at: "MELOS" that the Spartel Location-option was a HOAX-option.

YOU asked for evidence of my Theory, so I hope that you are satisfied with THIS explanation?

Don't ask me for sources on this theory, because more intelligent gents than me could not come up with this theory.

All I can say and I hope you can confirm this: by a wrong translation 100% of the Atlantologists( except journalist Jaimee Manuscevich are barking-up the wrong tree, concerning the Atlantis-Location, because they have based their 100 wild theories on the quicksand, of a wrong translation.

When I told some of them, that they stubbornly followed a wrong translation they denied that saying that Plato could not have been wrong(-ly translated !)

Sincerely  "BlueHue"

[ 04-11-2007, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: BlueHue ]

--------------------
NO- Exist -NO
Hercules 'PILLARS' is Pseudonym for: Loka-PALLAS > ELEPHANT-City.

Atlantis:
Origin: ATHE=Ad-Land= Gadeiras =ADEN

ATLAS-Sea* = Gulf-of-ADEN

DELUGE- TimeLine:
-2-CATACLYSMS: Titano-& Giganto-Machia,

( 1055>>Cecrops: 855 bc.)


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Posts: 302 | From: DELFT, Technical Univ. Delft, Holland , also: City of Master-painter Vermeer. | Registered: Oct 2004   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #250 on: March 21, 2008, 09:18:23 pm »

BlueHue

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   posted 04-11-2007 12:50 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by rockessence:
dhill,

I am half Greek...born in Salonika. .

I have always claimed to be a descendant of Alexander (a joke) This statue, I now think, may portray a person (goddess) of Nordic origin. Maybe my interest in the Bock history is because of racial memory(?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEAR ROCKINESS,

 FOR YOUR information: the Greeks originate from the egyptianized HYKSOS-TRIBES from South-Arabia in Biblical Times also Known as the CANANITES & Medianites.Later as Hypperoi or Hebrews/ Shapiroi.

They colonized Achaia or Attica as the Mineans or Minoans on Crete, from 1050 bc.onwards before that there lived other persons that the Three Pellasgian tribes of the Ionians, Aeolians, Dorians. (The dates for the Greek Colonization of 1600bc. or 1200 bc.are false that should be 1055-1050 bc.)

The Armenians Thracians and Dacians not to forget the Illyrians resettled in Greece, untill The roman Emperor Mauricein 602 ad, also settled his Salvonic veterans there which act was viewed by the helenic people as the SLAVONIC--INVASION, but which was actually a civilservants or mercenary resettlement by the roman authorities.

During the Peoples-Movements( damn I forget the JARGON, for Nation-Displacements during the Post-Roman times.)the EAST-Goths(= Germanic Tribe from Russia.) held sway in Greece during 500-900 ad when the Bulgars attacked the east-Roman Empire
but were repelled and also settled in Macedonia.

But the bulk of foreign invaders were the Goths from north Russia that are supposed to have travelled in 500 years from Gothland in Sweden to Greece, probably the Climate was better in 500 bc in Sweden and the Baltics or North Russia, but got worse afterwards.

In 1920 after the balkan wars and the First World War, the Greeks got a mandateby the treaty of Sévres(=Paris.)in 1920 to occupy West Turkey but Primeminister Venuzuelos was slow to deploy Greek troops in the designated town of Smyrna/Izmir so he gave the Turkish army Commander who's armies were not slain but decommisioned a change to regain that mandate-territorry. which was ( re-)ceded to the republic in 1921.

The Turks immediately began to oust everyone that bore a greek last name, because the genocide of the poor,Armenian Millicians could hardly be repeated here, those supposedly Greek persons in Turkey, were deported to Greece. and vice versa the greeks with a turkisch lastname were deported to Turkey. This illegal act was legalized by the next treaty of Lausanne in 1923.

In the treaty of Sévres in 1920, the Armenians and White Russian republics were granted independance from their century old overlords and a free republic. but wsith the Bolschevic-Revolution the Sévres-Treaty was "recinded".

Anyway there lived 500.000 Turks( Mameluks?) who spoke only turkish but had a greek name in the turkish Ears, pillars of turkish society but because of Xenophobic whiped-up sentiments they were deported short of ( another "accidental")genocide !

But that 1921-action was quite opposite of what the Turks expected from it! The 100.000 returning "Turks" from Greece knew only Greek and were more"Greek"/ hllenistic !than the indigenous Greek-sounding Turks that were deported from Turkey!

I mean to say that the last influx( in 1921)of Foreign invaders of Greece, were of Turkish origin but this was concealed by their greek last names.

So howmany original"Hellenists or Achaia/Attic greeks are still living in Greece is a real mistery. After all the present day Turks may equally be called "EAST-Greeks"!Since 1453 it will have taken at least 500 years before the Turkish element has replaced the greek 'originals' there!

And maybe the descendants of ALexander-the-Great from 330 bc. onwards may be found only in Eggypt !( if not murdered by Lysander Lycimachus or whatever usurper like Seleuchus or Antigonus.had killed Alexander's mother Olympias. his father Phillippus-2 and Roxanne and offspring.)

The Greek nose is sometimes seen in Greece today but is that really a "greek Nose" or were all the Models that greek sculptors used by accident immigrants from elsewere?

Sincerely a cynic  "BlueHue"

[ 04-11-2007, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: BlueHue ]

--------------------
NO- Exist -NO
Hercules 'PILLARS' is Pseudonym for: Loka-PALLAS > ELEPHANT-City.

Atlantis:
Origin: ATHE=Ad-Land= Gadeiras =ADEN

ATLAS-Sea* = Gulf-of-ADEN

DELUGE- TimeLine:
-2-CATACLYSMS: Titano-& Giganto-Machia,

( 1055>>Cecrops: 855 bc.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 302 | From: DELFT, Technical Univ. Delft, Holland , also: City of Master-painter Vermeer. | Registered: Oct 2004
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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