Atlantis Online
March 28, 2024, 04:09:15 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Underwater caves off Yucatan yield three old skeletons—remains date to 11,000 B.C.
http://www.edgarcayce.org/am/11,000b.c.yucata.html
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

900 or 9000 Years BC?

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 900 or 9000 Years BC?  (Read 6631 times)
0 Members and 146 Guests are viewing this topic.
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #195 on: March 20, 2008, 09:07:40 pm »

atalante
Member
Member # 1452

Member Rated:
   posted 07-03-2004 04:34 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently, the mechanism which caused the Holocene Optimum has been identified. (Previously it was thought that the whole earth was warmer and wetter during this so-called mid-holocene optimum, based on ice core data from Greenland.)
It is now understood that summers were warmer, but winters were colder, in high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. And the rest of the earth (including the southern hemishpere) was generally unaffected.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/holocene.html


[This message has been edited by atalante (edited 07-05-2004).]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2432 | From: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: Apr 2003   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #196 on: March 20, 2008, 09:08:04 pm »

 
dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 07-03-2004 04:54 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre, most of the ridge, especially the lower half, south of the equator, is in too deep of water. Yet, the upper half, the "spine", so to speak, isn't in as deep of water. Here's a website that champions the Mid-Atantic Ridge as Atlantis. I don't know how credible it is, Maria has already labelled it "lies." But it does have some interesting pictures of what Atlantis as the Md-Atlantic Ridge might have looked like:
http://was-this-atlantis.info/index.html
Incidentally, what is your opinion of earth-crust displacement..?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   
 
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #197 on: March 20, 2008, 09:11:55 pm »

atalante
Member
Member # 1452

Member Rated:
   posted 07-05-2004 02:07 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helios,
I have done some checking about temperatures at the end of the last ice age.
It seems that, with the exception of the Younger Dryas period, temperatures were moderately warm.

As you mentioned, the present state of scientific knowledge about the end of the ice age is still incomplete.

Around 15,000 BC, there was an extremely cold, full blown ice age. But after 15,000 BC, the earth began to warm up, and ocean sea levels rose on average 1 cm/year during 15,000-4000 BC (cumulatively, that represents a ocean-water rise of slightly over 100 meters).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2432 | From: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: Apr 2003   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #198 on: March 20, 2008, 09:12:43 pm »

Helios

Member
Member # 2019

Member Rated:
   posted 07-07-2004 12:50 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atalante,
As you mentioned, after 15,000 BC, the earth began to warm up, and ocean sea levels rose. Simply because the scientific knowledge about the end of the ice age is still incomplete, we cannot, with great accuracy anyway, estimate just at what degree that the oceans began to rise each year.

Your estimates, on average of 1 cm/year during 15,000-4000 BC (cumulatively, an ocean-water rise of slightly over 100 meters), assumes a slow end. If the end to the Ice Age happened more quickly, the waters could have risen more quickly than that.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2004   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #199 on: March 20, 2008, 09:13:05 pm »

Andre
Member
Member # 661

Member Rated:
   posted 07-07-2004 01:17 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helios, Atlante
What really happened during the ice ages is far more complicated than the interpretation of the ice cores let us believe. For instance the North of Siberia was rather reluctant to be cold, Instead it contained large steppes with musk ox horses (the most abundant), mammoths etc. Bioligic details (beetles, pollen) show a niche in that time that can be found hundreds of kilomters more to the south. The nortern most discovery of Mammoth remains was on the October revolution island, less than 1000 kilometers from the North pole. But when the ice age ended it got so cold over there that there is nothing left, only high arctic tundra. South America also has a few hint that point to a totally different line of events.

DHill, The Earth Crust Displacement was a clever idea of Charles Hapgood and based on the evidence of that time not such a bad idea.

Unfortunately it's quite impossible physically. The oval shape of the Earth would have devastated the crust when it slipped over it. The volcanic hotspots like Hawaii are supposed the be deeply rooted in the mantle and the ECD would have caused severe misalignment. Furthermore, the total drag that resists that motion is orders of magnitudes stronger than any force that we could think of that could cause the ECD. Assymetric ice sheets pullimng to the equator? But that's a thinking error. Because the misaligned pole would have made those ice sheets symmetric again.

So no ECD, but still there must have been something that caused that evidence, like the mammoth steppe in the coldest days of the ice age. That something is what we call the Rapid True Polar Wander.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 758 | From: Zoetermeer, the Netherlands | Registered: Dec 2001   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #200 on: March 20, 2008, 09:13:51 pm »

Helios

Member
Member # 2019

Member Rated:
   posted 07-07-2004 02:41 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought this material might be useful in terms of a time chart for accepted human development. Hopefully, it has not been posted in the past:
Historical Timeline
O.T.

Chronology:
15 Billion - 11,000 B.C.
11,000 B.C. - 9,000 B.C.
9,000 B.C. - 3,000 B.C.
3,000 B.C. - 1 A.D.

1 A.D. - Present


10,000 B.C.

9,000 B.C. - Lunar Calendar / Uganda - "The Ishango bone from modern Uganda in equatorial east Africa was identified by Marshak as a Lunar Calendar, dated about 9,000 B.C."

9,000 B.C. - Wheat Cultivation / Turkey - "The wild progenitor of einkorn wheat, one of the first crops to be domesticated (ca. 9000 B.C.), has been identified genetically in southeastern Turkey, according to a report in the journal Science. Manfred Heun of the Agricultural University of Norway, along with Norwegian, German, and Italian colleagues, examined the DNA of 68 lines of cultivated einkorn (Triticum monococcum monococcum), 194 lines of wild einkorn (T. m. boeoticum) from nine geographical regions within the Fertile Crescent, and nine lines of a weedy einkorn (T. m. aegilopoides) found in the Balkans."

9,000 B.C. - Tools / North America - "The Wenachee site, dated to 11,000 B.P. and located in the Inner Columbia River Basin, presents evidence of a new assemblage of stone tools in the Americas at their earliest known horizon." [link 5]

8,810 B.C. - Equinox at Cancer - "About this time, the Vernal Equinox was at Cancer."

8,600 B.C. - Irish Elk - "Until this time, Irish Elk [Megaloceros giganteus] lived in temperate climates throughout Europe and western Asia."

8,500 B.C. - Cities / Middle East - "According to popular history, this was the date when the first cities were established in the Middle East. One of the leading contenders is Jericho."

8,466 - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction - "There are five major planets with average cycles of motion relevant to the study of history. These are: Pluto [250 years], Neptune [165 years], Uranus [84 years], Saturn [28 years] and Jupiter [12 years]."

8,451 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

8,000 B.C. - Neolithic Age - "According to popular history, this period [10,000 - 8,000 B.C.] in which herding and agriculture came into use, is called the 'New Stone Age' or [in Latin] the 'Neolithic Age.' "

8,000 B.C. - Glacial Decline / Northern Hemisphere - "Popular Belief: By 8,000 B.C. the Wisconsin Glaciation and the European Wurm Glaciation had withdrawn completely.

8,000 B.C. - Vedas - "Reportedly, the Vedas have been passed down through oral tradition for over 10,000 years, appearing in written form between 2,000 - 4,000 B.C."

8,000 B.C. - Ancient Ruins / India - "At Poompuhur, facing the Bay of Bengal, Indian divers found a horseshoe-shaped object, measuring 85 metres in length, in water more than 23 metres deep. According to one scientist, the land on which this structure was built last stood above water more than 11,000 years ago. In January [2002], Indian marine scientists discovered what may be the more extensive remains of two ancient cities in the Gulf of Cambay. The site spans an area of about 25 square kilometres, 35 metres deep, which, until as late as 6,900 years ago, was entirely above water. About 2,000 possibly man-made artifacts have been dredged and carbon-dated from 8,500 to 9,500 years old."

8,000 B.C. - Civilization / Ur - "The Ur culture developed during the Neolithic Age and became global in expanse by 8,000 B.C. According to popular belief: 'Where the Sumerians came from is still disputed. Typologically, the language of Sumer resembles Chinese, which suggests an eastern origin. Some scholars have proposed that the Sumerians came by ship, landing on the north shore of the Persian Gulf.' "

8,000 B.C. - Writing - "Clay tokens have been used since as early as 8,000 B.C. in Mesopotamia for some form of record-keeping."

8,000 B.C. - European Inscriptions - "Epigraphers remain perplexed concerning such ancient European inscriptions as the Azillian signary c.8000 B.C.E. from southern France."

8,000 B.C. - Stonehenge - "Stonehenge was for a long while thought to have built slowly - over about 1000 years between 2,100 and 1,100 BC. This chronology was called into question in 1996 by new archaeological evidence. Following a two-year study commisioned by the English Heritage Foundation, researchers concluded that the great circles of blustones and sarsens had in fact been put up between 2,600 BC and 2,030 BC. Less than a year after these results were published another study showed that the stone circles had been preceded by wooden circles of 6-metre pine 'totem poles' dated to 8,000 BC. [Heaven's Mirror, Quest For The Lost Civilization, by Graham Hancock and Santha Faiia, p. xiii]

8,000 B.C. - Geography / Ireland - "The shape and landscape of present-day Ireland—an island of 27,100 square miles [70,200 square kilometers]—were formed 10,000 years ago when Atlantic Ocean glaciers slowly began their retreat. The event left the country rich with the soil that has nurtured Ireland's flora and fauna for centuries, and which offered a hospitable environment for migrating people to settle and plant seeds."

8,000 B.C. - Bog Bodies - "Over the past centuries, remains of many hundreds of people - men, women, and children - have come to light during peat cutting activities in northwestern Europe, especially in Ireland, Great Britain, the Netherlands, northern Germany, and Denmark. These are the "bog bodies." The individual bog bodies show a great degree of variation in their state of preservation, from skeletons, to well-preserved complete bodies, to isolated heads and limbs. They range in date from 8,000 B.C. to the early medieval period. Most date from the centuries around the beginning of our era. We do not know exactly how many bog bodies have been found--many have disappeared since their discovery."

8,000 B.C. - Florida Indians - "Florida's Aucilla River is yielding evidence of the adaptability of Paleoindians to their changing environment at the end of the Pleistocene, 10,000 years ago. For a decade, researchers from the Florida Museum of Natural History have been excavating the Page-Ladson site, and this past fall [1996] they uncovered the ground surface of a Paleoindian habitation at a depth of 15 feet. Radiocarbon dates place the beginning of the occupation at ca. 10,000 years ago. At the time, the site, now only five miles from the Gulf Coast near Tallahassee, was nearly 100 miles inland, and Florida's landscape resembled Africa's savannahs. Within 100 years, however, rising water at the end of the last glaciation flooded the site, sealing it with deposits that contain shells of freshwater molluscs."

8,000 B.C. - Human Occupation / South America - "The altiplano of Peru and Bolivia appears at first sight to be a very inhospitable land. Its high mountains, windswept plains, and icy waters of Lake Titicaca make it a stark, yet beautiful landscape. This 'high plain' (literally!) at a base elevation of 12,600 feet above sea level, is the ancestral home to the famous Andean animals (llamas and alpacas) and plants (potatoes and quiñoa). These creatures evolved in this harsh environment through natural selection. However, the highly successful human occupation of the area that began approximately 10,000 years ago depended largely on cultural adaptations, rather than biological ones. These cultural developments from the Archaic (ca.9,500- 4000 years ago) through the Formative Period (ca. 3200-2000 years ago) attest to a long period of economic and social intensification, a trend that is common throughout the world. In this 7,000 year span, we see the first colonization of the altiplano, the settling of permanent villages, and the rise of chiefly societies that formed the basis of Tiwanaku, one of the high civilizations of the New World. Dating of squash seeds from a cave in Oaxaca, Mexico, has confirmed that plant domestication in the Americas began some 10,000 years ago. The new finding, reported by Smithsonian archaeologist Bruce Smith in the journal Science, indicates that planting began in the New World about the same time as in the Near East and China."

7,422 B.C. - Copper Age - "Theoretical date for the beginning of the Copper Age based on computations using the number 2,160 years for the length of Kali Yuga."

7,420 B.C. - Mummy / Nevada - "A mummy excavated in 1940 and stored at the Nevada State Museum in Carson City was recently dated to ca. 7,420 B.C., making it the oldest mummy ever discovered in North America.

7,300 B.C. - Kennewick Man - "A skeleton was found in July, 1996 A.D. by the Columbia River in Kennewick, Washington. It was named the 'Richland Man.' The 9,300 year old bones were later studied and determined to be most closely related to Asian people, particularly the Ainu of northern Japan. It was concluded in 2,000 A.D. that he was an American Indian. The bones were dated to 7514-7324 B.C. Most intriguing is that the mummy was wearing moccasins and shrouds of woven marsh plants. The weave of the shrouds indicates that it was made on a loom. 'Kennewick Man' represents the best-preserved - human remains yet found in this part of the world, among the oldest anywhere in North America."

7,300 B.C. - Neolithic Surgery - "New accelerator radiocarbon dating of the Dnieper Rapids cemeteries near Kiev in Ukraine by the Oxford Radiocarbon Laboratory has produced evidence that trepanation, the surgical removal of bone from the cranial vault, was performed during the Mesolithic period. During a study of 14 individuals at the Vasilyevka II cemetery, Malcolm C. Lillie, a geoarchaeologist and palaeoenvironmentalist at the University of Hull, found one skeleton [no. 6285-9] to have evidence of trepanation. The cemetery, excavated in 1953 by A.D. Stolyar, has been dated to 7,300-6,220 B.C., making the trepanned cranium the oldest known example of a healed trepanation yet discovered. The skull, which was originally reported in Russian by I.I. Gokhman in 1966, has a depression on its left side with a raised border of bone and 'stepping' in the center showing stages of healing during life. The complete closure indicates the survival of the patient, a man who was more than 50 years old at his death. The dates for the individual are 1,000-2,000 years earlier than those of the skull at Ensisheim in France, recently reported by Kurt Alt to be the earliest evidence for trepanation [see Neolithic Surgery, September/October 1997]."

7,000 B.C. - Chinese Flute - "Archaeologists discover a 9,000 year old playable Flute in China. The 8.6 inch instrument in pristine condition has seven holes and was made from a hollow bone of a bird, the red-crowned crane. It is one of six flutes and 30 fragments recovered from the Jiahu arcaeological site in henan province."

7,000 B.C. - Human Skeleton / England - "In 1903 A.D. a skeleton of a man, 9,000 years old, was discovered in the underground caves at Cheddar, 130 miles west of London, England."

7,000 B.C. - Human Occupation / Alaska - "The Discovery Channel's latest archaeological offering takes mummy-mania to an unpublicized corner of the known mummy world - Alaska's Aleutian Islands. The Unangan, seafaring ancestors of today's Aleut, made their home in the barren archipelago for some 9,000 years, honing techniques for hunting large sea mammals, building sturdy houses, and, perhaps surprisingly, perfecting ritual mummification in a hostile, wet climate."

7,000 B.C.

6,800 B.C. - Jarmo Settlement / Iraq - "Reportedly, the settlement of Jarmo, in the foothills of northern Iraq, dates to about 6,800 B,C."

6,500 B.C. - Equinox at Gemini - "About this time, the Vernal Equinox was at Gemini."

6,500 B.C. - Catalhuyuk - "A prehistoric city located in Anatolia, or modern day Turkey where a number of artifacts appear to support evidence for the widespread practice of Goddess worship. Reportedly, 'the oldest layer of Catal Huyuk yet excavated [virgin soil has not yet been reached] is reliably carbon dated to 6,500 B.C.' "

6,500 B.C. - Mexican Step Pyramid - "Just south of the university campus of Mexico City, off the main road connecting the capital to Cuernavaca, stands a circular step pyramid of great complexity [with four galleries and a central staircase]. It was partially excavated in the 1920's from beneath a mantle of lava. Geologists were called to the site to help date the lava, and carried out a detailed examination. To everyone's surprise, they concluded that the volcanic eruption which had completely buried three sides of this pyramid [and had then gone on to cover about sixty square miles of the surrounding territory] must have taken place at least seven thousand years ago. It is worth noting, however that Byron Cummings, the American Archaeologist who origianally excavated the site for the national geographic Society, was convinced by clearly demarcated stratification layers above and below the pyramid [laid down both before and after the volcanic eruption] that it was 'the oldest temple yet uncovered on the American continent.' He went further than the geologists and stated categorically that this temple 'fell into ruins some 8,500 years ago.' "

6,200 B.C. - Domesticated Cattle - "The archeological record shows traces of domesticated cattle back to this time."

6,001 - Neptune-Pluto conjunction -

6,000 B.C. - Ocean-Going Vessels / Mesopotamia - "By 6,000 BC, the people of the Mesopotamian Near East were using ships on the open sea."

6,000 B.C. - Flax Cultivation - "Flax was being cultivated well before 6,000 B.C."

6,000 B.C. - Pottery Established - "By 6,000 B.C. pottery was a well established product."

6,000 B.C. - City / Ugarit - "Ugarit experienced a very long history. A city was built on the site in the Neolithic period around 6,000 B.C. Since the discovery of the Ugaritic texts, the study of the Old Testament has never been the same."

6,000 B.C. - Ancient Structure / Japan - "The submerged structure near the isle of Yonaguni [Japan], that is approximately 75 ft under the sea level, which has an evident artificial origin; it is 600 ft wide and 90 ft high, and it's about 8,000 years old." Links: 1 [7th photo]

6,000 B.C.

5,500 B.C. - Cities Established / Mesopotamia - "Reportedly: "Cities, or settlements which became cities, existed in Mesopotamia from 5,500 B.C. The earlier cities lay in the northern part of Iraq, and in northeastern Syria. City living quickly spread down the Euphrates River and into the valley of the Tigris River, reaching the swamps at the head of the Persian Gulf before 4,000 B.C." Links: 1, 2

5,546 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

5,400 B.C. - Human Settlement / Eridu - "Mesopotamia is located on the fertile flood plain of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in a hot desert ecology. Human settlements based on irrigation agriculture first appeared coincident to the establishment of Eridu about 7,400 BP. A great stepped tower, a ziggurat, which culminated a series of 20 structures built one upon another during a span of 3,500 years evidences Eridu's importance. Public architectural monuments were the focus of early Mesopotamian community centers. By 6,500 BP. large scale canal systems and many towns with public architecture had been founded. Eridu was the largest."

5,508 B.C. - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction -

5,292 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto conjunction."

5,149 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto conjunction."

5,038 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto conjunction."

5,015 B.C. - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction -

5,000 B.C. - Horus - "According to reports, many Egyptologists have endowed Horus with a grand old age. He commenced life at the time of Osiris 22,000 years ago and kept up his health and strength down to the time of Menes 5,000 years ago. A grand old age of 17,000 years. This goes the Hindu mistranslation about Rama one better. Rama lasted only 10,000 years. From the commencement of Egyptian history, and apparently for thousands of years, Egypt was governed by the Church with a Horus. The last Horus as the Hieratic head of religion in Lower Egypt was the Horus that immediately preceded King Menes, according to Manetho [in the writings of Manetho there are references to six different Horuses as Hieratic heads]. The date of Mena, the first king of Egypt, is variously given B.C. 5,867 [Champollion], B.C. 5,004 [Mariette], B.C. 5,892 [Lepsius], and B.C. 4,455 [Brugsch]."

5,000 B.C. - Megaliths / Egypt - "Standing megaliths and a ring of stones were erected from 6,700 to 7,000 years ago in the southern Sahara desert. They are the oldest dated astronomical alignment discovered so far and bear a striking resemblance to Stonehenge and other megalithic sites constructed a millennium later in England, Brittany, and Europe."

5,000 B.C. - Sahara Ecology - "Dried-up riverbeds as well as cave paintings indicate that at this time the Sahara was a land of flowing rivers, lush green pastures, and forests."

5,000 B.C. - I Ching - "The I Ching, or Book of Changes, is the most widely read of the five Chinese Classics. The book was traditionally written by the legendary Chinese Emperor Fu Hsi [2953-2838 B.C.]. It is possible that the the I Ching originated from a prehistoric divination technique which dates back as far as 5,000 B.C. Futher commentaries were added by King Wen and the Duke of Chou in the eleventh century B.C."

5,000 B.C. - Trepanation - "A 7,000-year-old burial at Ensisheim, in the French region of Alsace, has yielded the earliest [1997] unequivocal evidence for trepanation, according to Kurt W. Alt of Freiburg University and his colleagues. Trepanation is a surgical operation that involves the removal of a rectangle or disk of bone from the cranial vault. Most previous claims to cases predating the Late Neolithic age have been shown to be untreated head injuries or the results of decomposition."

5,000 B.C. - Human Habitation / Lebanon - "Stone age farmers and fisherman inhabited the area around Byblos, Lebanon. Archeologists at Byblos found at least 12 layers of civilizations that dated back 7,000 years."


5,000 B.C.

4,900 B.C. - Abandonment / Catalhuyuk - "An estimated date when the Catalhuyuk area was abandoned."

4,895 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

4,784 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

4,700 B.C. - Megaliths / Carnac - " 'Prehistory' itself is just the name that we give to the almost total amnesia that our species has suffered concerning more than 40,000 years of our own past. This amnesia covers the entire period from the emergence of anatomically modern humans until the first 'historical records' began to be written down in Sumer and in Egypt in the third millenium BC.
"Out of that long period of amnesia, and from its borders with history, a number of mighty monuments have come down to us. These include rock-hewn temples, circles of megaliths, and sacred sites arranged in dead straight lines over vast distances, such as the avenues of standing stones at Carnac in northern France. One earthern mound there, which contains a megalithic passageway orientated to the winter solstice sunrise, has been carbon-dated to 4.700 BC. [Heaven's Mirror, Quest For The Lost Civilization, by Graham Hancock and Santha Faiia, pp. x-xi]

4,641 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

4,530 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

4,522 - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction -

4,500 B.C. - Elephants / China - "A sacrificial dump [4,500 - 2,000 B.C.] in Guanghan, Sichuan Province, in China was uncovered in 1976. Large quantities of elephants tusks reveal that elephants roamed the area. Human figures, monster masks, and tree fragments made of bronze tubes were also found."

4,500 B.C. - Cities / Assyria - "Between 4,500 and 2,400 B.C., complex societies appear in the form of cities, with craft specialization and writing. These features were associated with the Sumerians, but they quickly spread to other parts of Mesopotamia, including Assyria. In Assyria, settlements had become large and guarded by fortifications walls, which implies the risk of attack from outside, and hence the need for defense and warfare.

4,500 B.C. - Burial Cave / Galilee - "A 6,500-year-old burial cave full of clay ossuaries, ceramic and stone vessels, figurines thought to have been ritual objects, and piles of human skulls and bones has been discovered in Galilee in northern Israel. Until now, archaeologists believed that Chalcolithic cultures in different parts of Israel were more or less self-sufficient. But clay jugs found at the new site are similar to those uncovered in the Golan Heights, and bronze ax heads are like those from the Judean Desert, suggesting some interaction between cultures. The ossuaries, however, are unique. 'Decorated ossuary facades characteristic of this period that depict human faces are flat, with protruding noses,' says Zvi Gal, director of the Israel Antiquities Authority Northern Region. 'Here we found three-dimensional sculpted heads, with distinct eyes, noses, and ears, unlike any ever found.' "

4,468 B.C. - Narmer Plate - "The original sky chart of the remote Ancient Egyptians was incorporated into the Narmer Plate in 4,468 B.C."

4,387 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction"

4,380 B.C. - Equinox at Taurus - "The immediate predecessor of the Age of Aries was the Age of Taurus - the Bull - which spanned the period between 4,380 B.C. and 2,200 B.C. It was during this precessional epoch [when the sun on the vernal equinox rose in the constellation of Taurus] that the Bull-cult of Minoan Crete flourished. It is interesting to note that at the very beginning of the dynastic period, the Egyptians were already venerating the Apis and Mnevis Bulls. Furthermore, the Sumerians represented the Bull of Heaven with human head and bull's body. The Greek representations of the Minotaur, depict him with human body and bull's head." Links: 1

4,276 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto conjunction."

4,241 B.C. - Egypt - "A date believed to indicate the earliest recorded date in the Egyptian calendar."

4,133 B.C. - Configuration - "Uranus-Pluto conjunction."

4,029 B.C. - Neptune-Pluto conjunction -

4,022 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

4,004 B.C. - Biblical Creation - "Reported date for the creation of the world according to Bishop Ussher [1581-1656]. Based on O.T. Chronology, according to Ussher, Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4,004 B.C. Ussher was Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland, and Vice-Chancellor of Trinity College in Dublin. According to John Lightfoot [1602-1675], Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge University and a contemporary of Ussher, man was created on October 23, 4,004 B.C., at nine o'clock in the morning. Other dates for the beginning of the world include: August 21st, 4004 B.C. and March 21st, 4004 B.C."

4,000 B.C. - Ancient Scythians - "The ancient Scythians [a transient kingly tribe who first domesticated the horse before 4000 BC] were indeed the early occupiers of Akkad in pre-Sumerian times." [Laurence Gardner, Genesis Of The Grail Kings, p. 46]

4,000 B.C. - Mesopotamian Flood - "Among some 20,000 preserved clay tablets, excavated from the world's most famous library at Nineveh [old Ninua] in Mesopotamian Assyria, are twelve which tell the story of the Flood. According to these texts, the hero of the epic, who was commanded by the gods to 'build a ship', was King Uta-napishtim of Shuruppak, who reigned around 4,000 BC. His story even states that when the waters had abated, 'All mankind had turned to clay; the ground was flat like a roof'." [Laurence Gardner, Genesis Of The Grail Kings]

4,000 B.C. - Flood Strata / Mesopotamia - "Flood strata of Mesopotamia has been scientifically dated to about 4,000 B.C."


4,000 B.C. - Stone Age - "The entire period of hominid history prior to 4,000 B.C. might be termed the Stone Age."

4,000 B.C. - Megoliths / Malta - Reportedly: "Malta is the site of the world's most ancient temple complexes: recent dendrochronological dating has put the age of these monuments at just short of 6,000 years."

4,000 B.C. - Human Occupation / Indus Valley - "The Indus Valley encompasses a large floodplain of rich alluvial soils that supported human occupation sites with irrigation based agriculture as early as 6,000 BP." [use link number 10]

4,000 B.C. - Human Advancement / Sumer - "Although Mesopotamia was a world leader in numerous aspects from around 10,000 B.C., there appears to have been a very marked further advancement from about 4,000 B.C. when southern Mesopotamia became identified as Sumer and the truly municipal cities flourished. By that time they were formally recognized as city-states which operated as individual kingdoms, and it is the story of the amazing rise of Sumer which provides the very thrust of the patriarchal narrative in Genesis. This sudden cultural expansion was not simply a matter of general evolvement; it was a mighty technical and academic revolution which has long baffled scholars and historians worldwide."

4,000 B.C. - Emergence / Sumerian Culture - "Tho this day, the majority are baffled by the sudden, extraordinary emergence of the Sumerians, seemingly from nowhere. But there is no doubt that, upon their advent in southern Mesopotamia, they were already highly advanced to a level far beyond that recorded or sustained from anyplace where logically they could have emanated. Nowhere on earth was there a culture like that of the Sumerians, who appeared soon after 4000 BC - at least that is what is generally supposed." [Laurence Gardner, Genesis of the Grail Kings, p. 45]

4,000 B.C. - Temple of Ur - "In the early 1900's, the builders of the Baghdad railway placed a station about 120 miles north of Basra because the landmarked site was a recognized travellers' rest. Here, an enormous solitary hill rose above the desert - a hill known to the Bedouins as Tell al Muqayyar [Mound of Pitch]. But some thousands of years ago this desert waste was a lush, fertile valley with cornfields and date groves. As was soon to be discovered, within this great mound was the towering multi-levelled Temple of Ur, along with the rest of the ancient city.
In 1923 , the archaeologist Sir Charles Leonard Wooley, with a joint team from the British Museum and the University of Pennsylvania, set out to excavate the mound because some years earlier a collection of very old texts, engraved on stone cylinders, had been unearthed near the summit. One of these cylinder-seals [as they became known] had revealed the name of Ur-nammu, King of Ur in about 2,010 BC, and so it was determined that this was probably the location of Abraham's home." [Laurence Gardner, Genesis Of The Grail Kings]
"When the Wooley team investigated beneath the foundations of the 4,000-year-old ziggurat and its confines, they fiound the remains of another great ziggurat and a buried city from even more ancient times, with courtyard bricks dating back to the 4th millennium BC. Also there were graves and artifacts from 3,700 BC, around the time of Adam, along with numerous archaeologically valuable items from a far more distant era. They even discovered a kingly burial ground, together with documentary records and cultural treasures unsurpassed in all Egypt." [Laurence Gardner, Genesis Of The Grail Kings]

4,000 B.C. - Set [the "Devil"] / Egypt - "About ten thousand years after the time of Thoth [about 14,000 B.C.], the vile, unscrupolous Egyptian priesthood, to bring fear and dread into the hearts of people and to enslave them for their priestly purposes, turned Set into the devil of today. Before a devil was invented by the Egyptians, a devil was unknown. Before that it was a fight between the Soul or Divine Force and the material affinities for control of man's mind and, through his mind, his bodily actions. The Soul's endeavor was to raise the material man to a higher plane. This the material affinities fought against and tried to keep him down to their own level." [Col. James Churchward]

4,000 B.C. - Hittite Settlements / Cappadocia - "The Hittites settled around Cappadocia in present day Turkey. According to reports: 'Sumerian as well as Akkadian words were borrowed into the Hittite language. Wherever Akkadian influence spread [among the Hurrians, Hittites, Elamites, Canaanites and still farther afield into the Aegean and Egypt], the Sumerian impact was felt. 'Cuneiform Hittite texts are not only written in the script of Mesopotamia, but are full of Sumero-Akkadian logograms and loan-words; so much so that the interpretation of Hittite texts comes more easily to Assyriologists than to Indo-Europeanists.' "

4,000 B.C. - Bulgarian Inscriptions - "Epigraphers remain perplexed concerning such ancient European inscriptions as the Azillian signary c.8000 B.C.E. from southern France, the Tartaria tablets from Romania and the 'proto-writing' from Gradeshnitsa, Bulgaria dated before 4,000 B.C."

4,000 B.C. - Human Settlement / Poland - "In Poland the archeological site at Oslonki uncovered some 30 longhouses and 80 graves."

4,000 B.C. - Amber Trade / Europe - "Chiefdoms of northern Europe were trading in amber."

4,000 B.C. - Teotihuacan - "Neither the Street of the Dead, nor the temple of Quetzalcoatl, nor the Pyramids of the Sun and the Moon had ever been definately dated. The majority of scholars believed that the city of Teotihuacan ['place of the gods'] had flourished between 100 B.C. and 600 A.D., but others argued strongly that it must have risen to prominence much earlier, between 1,500 and 1,000 B.C. There were others still who sought, largely on geological grounds, to push the foundation back to 4,000 B.C. before the eruption of the nearby volcano Xitli. Still other reports push the date back well beyond 10,000 B.C. Incidentally, the architects who had planned Teotihuacan had deliberately chosen to incline the Street of the Dead 15 degrees 30' east of north."

4,000 B.C. - Ice-Free Antarctica - "The Piri Reis Map, which is a genuine document, not a hoax of any kind, was made at Constantinople in A.D. 1513. The ice-free coast of Queen Maud Land shown in the map is a colossal puzzle because geological evidence confirms that the latest date it could have been surveyed and charted in an ice-free condition is 4,000 B.C. The true enigma of this 1513 map is not so much its inclusion of a continent not discovered until 1,818 but its portrayal of part of a coastline of that continent under ice-free conditions which came to an end 6,000 years ago and have not since recurred. Piri Reis tells us that he was not responsible for the original surveying and cartography, but he admitts that his role was merly that of compiler and copyist and that the map was derived from a large number of source maps. In 1963 professor Hapgood argued that some of the source maps the admiral had made use of, in particular those said to date back to the fourth century B.C., had themselves been based on even older sources, which in turn had been bassed on sources originating in the furthest antiquity. There was, he asserted, irrefutable evidence that the earth had been comprehensively mapped before 4,000 B.C. by a hitherto unknown and undiscovered civilization which had achieved a high level of technological advancement."

4,000 B.C.

4,000 B.C. - Pa Kua / China - "According to Chinese legend, in the 4th millenium B.C. a dragon delivered the eight mystic trigrams, the Pa Kua, to a legendary emperor."

4,000 B.C. - Chinese Writing - "In many pots, jades, and bronzes ranging from the late third millenium B.C. to as late as Shang and Chou dynasties, bird and sun motifs appear together, often joined, and possibly can be read as yang niao, or 'sun birds', the name of a local eastern Yi group which had settled in the Lower Yangtze valley. This could be an example of the precursor to Chinese writing."

4,000 B.C. - Copper - "Copper was in use by this time."

3,879 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,768 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,761 B.C. - Jewish Creation - "The Jewish era in use today is dated from the supposed year of the Creation, with its epoch or beginning in what is 3,761 B.C. on the Gregorian calendar. According to Jewish tradition, the year 1 of the Jewish calendar was the time of 'waste and void,' referred to in Genesis 1.1. Nothing was yet created, and only a virtual clock started to tick on the first day of that year, heard, as it were, only by the Creator."

3,625 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,600 B.C. - Sumer / Iraq - "Soon after 4,000 B.C., southern Mesopotamia was identified as Sumer [pronounced 'Shumer'], and it was here that the early patriarchs prevailed. One of the foremost cities of ancient Sumer was Uruk [modern-day Warka], from which derived the country's eventual name of Iraq." Other Links: 1

3,600 B.C. - Malta Temple - "A temple on the Medeterranian island of Malta was reportedly constructed around 3,600 B.C. [Note: Since Carbon 14 dating measures the age of organic materials only, nearly all of the stone ruins [composed of inorganic rock] have not been Carbon 14 dated. Rather, what have been Carbon 14 dated are so many organic materials lying with, next to, or around those stone ruins.]

3,536 B.C. - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction -

3,514 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,500 B.C. - Pottery - "Early Mesopotamian pottery, from about 3,500 B.C., has links as far afield as peninsular Greece, via Anatolia. Cultural links between Mesopotamia and Greece have persisted, in varying degree, from period to period, ever since."

3,500 B.C. - Qumran Relics - "The excavations at Qumran have produced relics dating back about 3,500 BC, at which time [during the Bronze Age] the settlement was a Bedouin camp."

3,500 B.C. - Bronze Age - "According to popular history, the Sumerians began to use bronze tools and about 3,500 B.C., entered the Bronze Age."

3,500 B.C. - Temple of Ur - "Six years after beginning their excavations at Ur, Woolley's archaeologists found an intriguing complex of ancient graves dating to about 3,500 BC, including a stone-built tomb of unusual significance. It was significant because stone has never existed in this desert area; barely a pebble can be found within 30 miles of Ur."

3,500 B.C. - Wheeled Carts / Sumeria - "According to popular history, about 3,500 B.C., animal-drawn wheeled carts were in use in Sumeria."

3,500 B.C. - Writing - "Reportedly, the earliest attested documents in cuneiform were written in Sumerian, the language of the inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia and Chaldea from the 4th until the 2nd millennium B.C. According to popular belief, the original Sumerian script consisted of pictographs. It later became linear and then evolved into the cuneiform script."

3,500 B.C. - Semites / Egypt - "According to popular history, about 3,700 years ago, West Semitic-speaking people of the Sinai became workers or slaves under the sway of Egyptian rule. The Egyptian hieroglyphic symbols these Semitic speakers saw made an impression on them, and encouraged the adoption of a limited number of hieroglyphics to write down sounds in their language."

3,500 B.C. - Burial Sites / Ireland - "In Ireland, burial sites have been dated to at least 3,500 B.C."

3,400 B.C. - Gezer - "Creamware was found at bedrock."

3,371 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,300 B.C. - Stonehenge - "Stonehenge in Britain has long been a site of celebration of the summer solstice, June 21. But there are more than 1,000 other prehistoric stone circles in the British Isles. Not much is known about them, except that they appear to be giant sundials and astronomical clocks. What is known is that between 3300 and 900 B.C. there were three phases of stone-circle building. During the first phase, before 3000 B.C., impressive circles, more than 30 meters [33 yards] across, were built on hillsides around the Irish Sea. They usually had one wider gap to serve as an entrance. Sometimes they had one single standing stone outside the ring, like a signpost proclaiming the land was occupied. Many perfectly constructed rings of stones were created around 2600 B.C., perhaps because metal was then available. These include the circles of Stanton Drew, in Somerset, and the Ring of Brodgar, in the Orkneys, each more than 90 metres [98 yards] across. Certain areas seemed to adopt a preferred number of stones. They show a wide range of styles, from plain and concentric rings to rings with avenues, like that at Avebury. From 2000 to 900 B.C., the tradition of building stone circles declined. By 900 B.C. stone circles, including Stonehenge, were abandoned." [Note: Since Carbon 14 dating measures the age of organic materials only, nearly all of the stone ruins [composed of inorganic rock] have not been Carbon 14 dated. Rather, what have been Carbon 14 dated are so many organic materials lying with, next to, or around those stone ruins." More Links: 1

3,260 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,200 B.C. - Indus Valley Civilization - "Traditional date when the Indus Valley civilization [3,200-1,600 B.C.] grew up along the banks of the Indus River in what is now Pakistan."

3,200 B.C. - Lebanon - "Semitic people come to the area around Byblos, Lebanon. It was then called Gebal and the people Giblites, who with flat axes cut timber from the mountains."

3,117 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -

3,114 B.C. - Mayan Fifth Sun - "Central American cultures believed that prior to the fifth epoch [Fifth 'Sun'] there had been four previous 'Suns,' each of which had ended in a cataclysm that had wiped the face of the earth clean. The fifth epoch was said to have begun in darkness on 4 Ahau 8 Cumku, a date in the Mayan calendar corresponding to 13 August 3114 BC, and was expected to come to a catastrophic end as the result of a 'great movement of the earth' on 4 Ahau 3 Kankin - which corresponds in the modern calendar to 23 December AD 2012."

3,102 B.C. - Kali Yuga - "According to Vedic tradition, we are in the fourth World Age, or Kali Yuga [Iron Age], furthest from the celestial seat of Brahma, an age when humans are capable of understanding only gross material reality. The traditional date in India for the beginning of the Kali Yuga is February 18, 3,102 B.C. The duration for the Kali Yuga is believed to be 432,000 years. According to Hesiod, the present race of man [the iron race] had been preceded by three earlier races – the golden race, the silver race, and the bronze race respectively. Each of these three peoples had been destroyed by cataclysms, at the command of the gods, the most recent of which had been the flood of Deucalion. The disappearance of Atlantis, rather intriguingly, was dated by Plato to the third cataclysm before this flood of Deucalion."

3,100 B.C. - "Scorpion / Egypt - "In the protodynastic period of Egypt 'Scorpion' ruled and was followed by Narmer."

3,100 B.C. - 1st Egyptian Dynasty - "Traditional date when the two regions of Egypt were believed to have been united under the rule of Narmer [known as Menes, to the Greeks] and the First Egyptian Dynasty was founded. Incidentally, the number of years credited to some kings of the 1st and 2nd Dynasty is so high, that, in those particular cases, they are most likely not correct. It has sometimes been postulated that this high number of years does not reflect the length of a reign but the age at which the king died. Such high numbers for reigning kings also appear in the Sumerian King Lists."

3,100 B.C. - Important Period - "Historically, the date of 3,100 B.C. has proven to be one of the most important periods, if not the most important period, regarding three of the world’s most ancient civilizations: Sumer, Egypt and India."

3,100 B.C. - History Begins - "Reportedly, a society that possesses writing is 'historic'. One that does not is 'prehistoric'. By 3,100 B.C., the Sumerians had a system of writing that could communicate anything they wanted to say. In other words, human history begins with Sumeria not long before 3,000 B.C." [Asimov]

3,043 B.C. - Neptune-Pluto Conjunction -

Note: "This date represents an approximation only. Most likely the calculation is off by several years." [Etznab Mathers]

3,006 B.C. - Uranus-Pluto Conjunction -






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 406 | From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus) | Registered: Jun 2
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2008, 09:14:37 pm »

dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 07-07-2004 11:35 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre,
quote:

"The Earth Crust Displacement was a clever idea of Charles Hapgood and based on the evidence of that time not such a bad idea.

"Unfortunately it's quite impossible physically. The oval shape of the Earth would have devastated the crust when it slipped over it. The volcanic hotspots like Hawaii are supposed the be deeply rooted in the mantle and the ECD would have caused severe misalignment."

I have to pay you a compliment, I don't think I've ever heard the "cons" of earth-crust displacement theory explained so clearly. Great to have the scientific view.

Second question,

Do you believe there is any evidence that the Ice Age ended quickly, as in terms of an asteroid hit, like many Atlantis researchers, such as Otto Muck believed? More to the point, is there any evidence of that?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2008, 09:15:43 pm »

Andre
Member
Member # 661

Member Rated:
   posted 07-08-2004 01:19 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you believe there is any evidence that the Ice Age ended quickly, as in terms of an asteroid hit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go. The end of the Younger Dryas (on the average 11,550 years ago) was rather spectacular when looking in several (almost all) proxies like ice cores, pollen cores, tree rings (dendrochronology) etc. The current interpretation is a temperature rise of more than 10 degrees within a decade. However there are numerous indications that this is not the case. My interpretation is massive clathrate destabilisation in the Arctic seas north of Scandinavia and Siberia. But why? My guess, dramatic tectonic actions. Why? A result of the RTPW.

A meteorite impact like the one that may have caused the Carolina bays doesn't make sense and yes Otto Muck and his eels is quite humurous. Amongst the reason why, because then meteorite impacts would also been causing the end of the previous ice ages, like the eemian around 140,000 years ago and previous stages around 220,000 ago, 350,000 years ago etc. Now these periods are not regular enough for a recurring astrononical event but too regular to account it on random meteorites. Besides I have not heard of any succes to tie craters to ice age endings.

The ice ages are much much more complex than we think. Remember that any explaination also needs to explain the Mammoths in high arctic Siberia during the coldest period of the ice ages.

Just try this as appetizer for all the complications:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/Laurentian%20ice%20sheet%20on%20greenland.htm



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 758 | From: Zoetermeer, the Netherlands | Registered: Dec 2001   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2008, 09:16:22 pm »

Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 07-08-2004 02:18 PM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DHill,
try this, http://www.urantia.com/booksearch.html
and type in ice age and/or ice sheet for detailed reliable information available nowhere else.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #204 on: March 20, 2008, 09:16:52 pm »

dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 07-09-2004 12:28 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absonite, thanks for the link , I am still studying the Urantia book. Like the Bock Saga, it probably has a lot of pertinence to what we are discussing here than people give it credit for. Mind if I ask, how did you happen to get so involved with it..? I can tell you're really passionate about it.
Andre,

I'm a little confused about your scientific method, course I'll admit that Ice Age theory is not my strongest suit. Can you explain to me how you can make judgments like that based on ice samples..? I'm not trying to be facetious, just think I need a better understanding of your methods before I see the whole logic behind it.

In Otto Muck's defense (who was also a physicist, engineer and inventor of the schnorkel and German U-boats but the way), if I remember correctly, he doesn't say a meteorite hit the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, but an asteroid. Meteorites hit the world all the time and do little damage, an asteroid is a lot bigger. An asteroid hit has long been theorized as what brought about the end of the dinosaurs. Not too many of them were suggested to have hit the earth in the last few thousamd years, that I know of anyway.

About the 'eel' point, I think that was a point that Muck brought up more in relation to the fact that there may have been more land in the Azores area than to do with any cosmic cataclysm.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000868;p=6
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #205 on: March 21, 2008, 08:30:56 pm »

Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 07-09-2004 03:33 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dhill,
i first ran across it as a kid and thought it was a cool sci-fi book. For years kept looking for another by the same author or a part 2 or something. Guess I just didn't have the brains at that time to realize what I had accidently found. The more science evolved the more everything fell into line with the UB. There are still 4 or 5 things in it that are giving some people problems, but I think they will all straighten out as our techniques of measurement become more advanced.
Anyway, if you can get your mind around it by that time you should try to be here.
http://urantiabook.org/IC05/IC05_planning_1.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003 
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #206 on: March 21, 2008, 08:31:37 pm »

Andre
Member
Member # 661

Member Rated:
   posted 07-09-2004 04:52 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well dhill, since you brought up Otto Muck, I replied with eels because in my idea the eels are a perfect proof for the "plate tectonics" hypothesis of Afred Wegener at the same time it seem to refute Mucks Mid atlantic ridge idea for Atlantis.
If the eels were used to travel from the Saragossa sea to Europe, it would seem that this is the result of 100 million years of evolution. The eels started with that habit when the Atlantic ocean was still the Atlantic river and barely noticed that that river grew with some inch each year slowly to become the ocean. This would support Wegeners plate tectonics.

If you sink an island that was the previous destination of the eels, chances that the young hatched larvae are able to cover a thousand miles or so more, is rather remote. So it appears that Mucks favorite eels are debunking him and are supporting Wegener.

Muck also thought that the Carolina bays -perhaps the result of a gigantic water meteorite- had something to with the alleged destabilisation of the Atlantic sea floor:
http://www.georgehoward.net/cbays.htm

If so then the local damage must have been much bigger.

++++++

About stable isotopes and temperature, some links that may help explaining: http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/gcc/3-3-2-1.html http://geology.csupomona.edu/drjessey/class/GSC433/Isotopes.htm http://www.huxley.ic.ac.uk/Local/EarthSciUG/ESFirstYr/EarthMaterials/mrpalmer/EarthMaterials/Iso/module8/m8.html


I wrote this somewhere once:

(Refer to this graph (lower) of the alleged global temperature the last 400,000+ years.)
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/graphics/large/2.jpg


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What makes it that we put a temperature scale on the Y-axis of the lower graph? The simple assumption that isotopes are temperature. Okay some corrections account for local effects but the main idea is that the ratio of heavy and light atoms is mainly dependant on temperature. In this case here the temperature scale is an assumption based upon the ratio of normal hydrogen (H) and heavy hydrogen atoms (Deuterium - D), in the ice of the Vostok ice cores. The ratio is also indicated as “dD”. So most of the time you find this graph with “dD”on the Y-axis. At least that’s correct.
Now here the carbon dating comes in, since carbon dating is also playing with isotopes, but what a problems it encountered. So let me explain first and then compare it to palaeo thermometry.

Carbon dating was developed in the 1950, here is how it basically works. Just heavy radioactive 14C atoms that are produced in the air and that decay again with a half time of some 5700 years (normal –light- carbon is 12C). Live tissue has the same heavy 14C – 12C carbon ratio as the air, while dead tissue starts to loose the 14C, and the 14C – 12C ratio decreases. this can be used measuring it’s age.

In the early days, it was as simple as that. Just have a radioactivity geiger counter, count the ticks, assume that it is decaying 14C that you count. Do the math and there you are, the age of the thing. Well, in fact, the calculation brought anything but the correct age because numerous complications have been neglected. The large errors were mostly attributed to sample contamination but this is something that really doesn’t happen that often.

So what are the real problems exactly?
- Other radioactive noise
- Variation of the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air, depending on the activity of sources and sinks with it’s own fractionation characterises, producing or reducing carbon dioxide concentration depleted of heavy isotopes or even enriched with heavy isotopes.
- Variation of radiogenic production of heavy 14C. The more cosmic activity, the more 14C
- The fractionation of heavy atoms in the processes of building that particular tissue. Photo synthetic processes, predator processes, air breathing, or underwater etc. But these fractionation processes are equally dependant on temperature and relative humidity as the dD in Vostok ice cores.

These problems have been addressed in the recent past resulting in more or less adequate solutions.

radioactive noise: counting 14C nowadays is done with a mass spectrometer, not with radioactivity anymore, just like all the other isotope counting procedures, a tremendous improvement.

Variation of carbon dioxide and all the processes that change the 14C concentration in the air are now adjusted by a calibration table that has been build by comparing carbon age with annual layer counting, annual layers of tree rings (dendrochronology) ice cores layers and lake sedimentation layers (varves). Differences up to 2500 years are normal in the ice age period.

Variation due fractionation processes with all its variables are dealt with by also counting the stable moderate heavy 13C atoms. As the 13C-12C ratio tells something about the fractionation of heavier 14C atoms, we can adjust the assumption of the original 14C ratio, just by multiplying 13C fractionation differences by 2. The 13C ratio (d13C) in a specific time frame could be derived from the CO2 in the ice cores, but I don’t think that we are that far yet, so for the moment I think we still assume a constant d13C for the CO2 in the air.

Since carbon dating is a very important instrument for basic dating we have put a lot of effort in correcting for all the errors, we could think of. Finally, we have a system with a reasonable degree of accuracy and trustworthiness.

Isotope Paleo thermometry is still in the 1950’s of the carbon dating. Isotopes = temperature, it’s as simple as that. We assume a basic ratio of the source like standard sea water (SMOW) and we assume basic fractionation processes like evaporating and condensing. We are not triggered to look into more detail of these processes, since the ice cores seem to reflect exactly what we think we know about palaeo climates of the ice age (unaware of many circular reasonings). So obviously there seem to be no errors that would trigger us to investigate the problems of variation of isotope ratios of sources and variations and complications of fractionation processes. So why make it more complicated? Unfortunately Occams Razor does not work that way and we have miles to go before we sleep. The bottom graph is wrong, we do not see temperatures, we see isotopes as a result of many processes, nothing more, no climate.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 758 | From: Zoetermeer, the Netherlands | Registered: Dec 200
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #207 on: March 21, 2008, 08:32:41 pm »

Essan

Member
Member # 1224

Member Rated:
   posted 07-09-2004 06:06 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helios: thanks for that list, very useful. I was just thinking of looking for something like it to help with some research of my own  Smiley
Andre: as a kid Otto Muck's was my favourite book on Atlantis. Thanks for convincingly demolishing the one bit of his theory that still seemed to have something going for it (the migrating eels)  Sad Wink  I'd never even thought of that before.

One problem with the Mid Atlantic Atlantis theory is where the fauna and flora that - presumably - inhabited it came from. Whilst some seeds and insects might get blown across the Atlantic, the landmass would still have been virtually animal free unless it had always existed since the break up of Laurasia. If the landmass was simply as a result of lowered sea levels for a few 10s of thousands of years during the last ice age it certainly wouldnt have been covered with forests, nor would there been any animals there for hunting. It'd have been mostly rock with just basic plants and insects. So why would anyone want to live there, when there were so many other places on Earth teeming with food and wildlife they could go to instead?

btw this is also a problem with the Atlantis in Antarctica theory.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 394 | From: Evesham, Worcs, England | Registered: Oct 2002   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #208 on: March 21, 2008, 08:33:18 pm »

Absonite

Member
Member # 1766

  posted 07-09-2004 09:38 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Andre,
I've enjoyed your comments on Plate Techtonics and Continental Drift.
Are you aware of the following?
The prophetic nature of The Urantia Book's account of continental drift and some of its consequences have now received approval in a book by professor of geology, M.A.S. McMenamin, entitled "The Garden of Ediacara," reported by Larry Mullins in the recent "Spiritual Fellowship Journal." The following quotes coming from McMenamin's book followed upon that author having his attention drawn to The Urantia Book's content:

Ê Ê"The anonymous members of the Urantia Corps hit on some remarkable scientific revelations in the mid-1930's. They embraced continental drift at a time when it was decidedly out of vogue in the scientific community. They recognized the presence of a global super-continent (Rodinia) and superocean (Mirovia), in existence on Earth before Pangea...The concept of a billion year old supercontinent (the currently accepted age for the formation of Rodinia) that subsequently split apart, forming gradually widening ocean basins in which early marine life flourished, is unquestionably present in the book.
Ê Ê"Orthodox scientific arguments for such a proposal did not appear until the late 1960's, and a pre-Pangea supercontinient was never described until Valentine and Moores made the attempt in 1970. The Urantia Corps not only had the age of formation of Rodinia approximately correct at 1 billion years, but they were the first to link breakup of Rodinia to the emergence of animals...One wonders how the Urantia Book authors arrived at the concept of a Proterozoic supercontinent and the link between the breakup of this supercontinent and the emergence of complex life in the ensuing rift oceans 30 years before most geologists accepted continental drift--and nearly four decades before any scientist had any inkling that Rodinia existed."Ê
.........
.....
Continental Drift 3--Secondary Effects

Ê Ê"There is a curious parallel history between the histories of black holes and continental drift. Evidence for both was already non-ignorable by 1916, but both ideas were stopped in their tracks for half a century by a resistance bordering on the irrationalÉbut resistance to both began to crumble around 1960." (Werner Israel, quoted in Thorne1)
Ê Ê"...disbelief (in continental drift) was so strong that it often bordered on indignation. One of the strongest opponents was the British geophysicist Sir Harold Jeffreys, who spent years attempting to demonstrate that continental drift is impossible because the strength of the mantle should be far greater than any conceivable driving forceÉ.It was in North America, however, that opposition to Wegener's ideas was vigorous to the point of excess and very nearly unanimousÉ.Wegener was attacked from virtually every possible vantage point, his paleontological evidence attributed to land bridges, the similarity of strata on both sides of the Atlantic called into question, the fit of Atlantic shores declared inaccurate, and his very competence doubted."2
Ê ÊIn the light of such opposition one must wonder what would have caused the authors of the Urantia Papers to base the whole of their report on the evolution of continents and life on this planet upon the truth of continental drift--unless they had access to some special source of knowledge.
Ê ÊMoreover they were not simply following Wegener's version of drift. Wegener began his story with a single continent that he called Pangea that commenced to break up in the order of 200 million years ago. The story presented in the Papers commenced with a single continent that commenced to break up 750 million years ago. Wegener's views prevailed until around 1970 when some geologists began to voice a different opinion which is reported in a book entitled "Genesis" published in 19823. In this, it was proposed that there may have been a pre-existing continent, a Pangea 1, roughly 600 million years ago that had broken up into four new continents by about 450 million years ago, at the end of the Ordovician age. Then, about 250 million years later, these continents were thought to have converged to form Pangea 2 which
quickly broke up again as proposed by Wegener. Variations on this theme have continued to appear and were pulled together in 1995 in a review article4 proposing the breakup of a pre-Cambrian supercontinent named Rodinia around 750 million years--exactly coincidental with the time given by the Urantia Papers.
Ê ÊThere are other features of the Urantia Papers' story of our planet that are quite remarkable. Remembering the fierce opposition against continental drift that existed during time of receipt and publication of the Papers, their authors nevertheless associated the collision of the continental land mass and the oceanic floor with the formation of "the whole vast north and south mountain range extending from Alaska down through Mexico to Cape Horn." (P. 689) The collision of tectonic plates and subduction of the oceanic plate is now accepted as a major component of the forces involved in mountain building in areas like the west coast of the Americas.
Ê ÊThe Papers also tell of features such as land bridges connecting Australia, and the Antarctic continent with South America and South Africa that would have allowed primitive placental (marsupial) animals that flourished 50 million years ago to move between these continents.
Ê ÊThe presence of marsupial fossils in Oligocene strata (about 35 to 40 million years old) in Australia and in America in the Cretaceous strata dating as far back as 65 million years ago, together with the recent discovery of marsupial fossils on Seymour Island in Antarctica provide remarkable evidence for statements (P.695) about the ancestors of Australia's kangaroos and the land bridges of 35 to 45 million years ago. Yet when the Papers were written in the 1930's, geologists or paleontologists who supported the notion of continental drift would have been labeled as mavericks. All of which raises the question of why the authors of the Urantia Papers would have written such material except they possessed knowledge unavailable on Urantia.
References

1. K.S. Thorne, (1994) Black Holes and Time Warps. (Picador, London)
2. Encyclopedia Britannica (2000)
3. J. Gribbin, Genesis, (1982)
4. W.D. Dalziel, Earth before Pangea, Scientific American 272 (1) 28. (1995)
5. L..J Mullins and M.J. Sprunger. (2000) A History of the Urantia Papers. (Penumbra Press, Boulder.)

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/newsletters/innerface/vol11_3/page27.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2197 | Registered: Dec 2003   
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Helios
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1819



« Reply #209 on: March 21, 2008, 08:34:13 pm »

 
dhill757

Member
Member # 1890

Member Rated:
   posted 07-10-2004 12:20 AM                       
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Essan,
Very inciteful input, you should come around more! Actually, the Otto Muck book is still one of my favorites on Atlantis. The point on Laurasia is a good one. He makes a point about continental drift there that any school kid could see, namely that South America and Africa fit neatly together, while North America and Europe could, conceivably be missing a piece...Atlantis..?

Either that or the raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge could have been Atlantis, to my view anyway. Depending on how many years the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, it may not have been the barren rock you so convincingly describe. Depending on how advanced the Atlanteans were, they might have well "imported" some of the animals Plato describes there from nearby Africa (although it would be hard getting an elephant on a boat).

Andre,

I don't think that I have ever heard Carbon 14 dating explained so articulately, thank you, I, too, enjoy what you bring to the discussion. As it happens, I never really thought that the eels were that strong a point of Otto Muck's.

Earlier you were looking for some more scientific material on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. I found some material on one of the threads that may not be very scientific again, from one of the other threads. Bear in mind, it does come from an Atlantis website, so it may not be the most reliable, but I wonder if you'd like to look at it:
http://www.atlantissource.com/home/forgotten_article.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 544 | From: Madison | Registered: Mar 2004   
 
Report Spam   Logged

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy