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Worst theories & books on Atlantis

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Helios
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« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2008, 09:57:03 pm »

Erick Wright

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Brig,
I've never been a cabinet maker (or a butcher or baker, for that matter).  Wink

Warm Regards,

Erick


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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2008, 09:57:26 pm »

docyabut
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Erick, allthough I agree the second invasion between 1200-1176 by the sea people were the philistines (you can tell that by
the headdress) however what of the frist invasion of 1176?
We actually believe that the Sea People became active as early as the reign of Akhenaten. These were probably the Denen, Lukka and Sherden. The Lukka and Sherden are also recorded, along with the Peleset as serving as mercenaries in the army of Ramesses II, especially at the Battle of Qadesh. In fact, Ramesses II had earlier been forced to defend himself against attempts by the Sherden to establish a chain of efforts to the west of Egypt. They had arrived in that area almost a century earlier, and are said to have included the Libu, who would eventually give their name to Libya. An inscription of Ramesses II relates in the 8th year of his reign (which is dated c. 1176 BC):



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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2008, 09:57:52 pm »

docyabut
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I do have to go with Gerogous`s translation that libo was yberia or iberia, tharis a colony. What nation would have been the most powerful then with the tradeing of silver?
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2008, 09:58:49 pm »

Erick Wright

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Docyabut,

quote:
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An inscription of Ramesses II relates in the 8th year of his reign (which is dated c. 1176 BC)
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1176 BC would be the eigth year of the reign of Ramesses III, who ruled ca. 1184-1153 BC, not Ramesses II, who ruled ca. 1279-1213 BC.

I don't doubt that the Sea Peoples tribes had been active prior to 1200 BC, but they were active in Anatolia attempting to shrug off the rule of the Hittites.

I'm not sure where you got your info on this one, but the Philistines were not mercenaries in the army of Ramesses II, nor were the Sherden and Lukka. The Sherden did become mercenaries in the army of Ramesses II after their capture in the battle of Kadesh/Qadesh, but prior to their capture they were allied with the Hittites. The Peleset were unknown until the attempted allied invasion during the reign of Merenptah, who ruled from 1213-1203 BC.


quote:
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In fact, Ramesses II had earlier been forced to defend himself against attempts by the Sherden to establish a chain of efforts to the west of Egypt.
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Where are you getting this?

Warm Regards,

Erick

P.S. the Libu, or Libyans, had existed as Egypt's western neighbors for countless millenia. In fact, there's now a great deal of evidence to suggest that the early Egyptians borrowed some of their funerary and religious beliefs/customs from their Libyan neighbors.


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Posts: 770 | From: Columbus, Ohio U.S.A. | Registered: Sep 2002   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2008, 09:59:12 pm »

docyabut
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Erick look at the head dress in the reliefs of the second invasion, they are of the philistines and the minos cultures. http://www.recoveredscience.com/Phaistosebook09.htm

and did not inclue the libyans culture of the frist invasions with the libyans.


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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2008, 09:59:37 pm »

docyabut
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Now look at the The Sea Battle of Ramesses III's Encounter with the Sea People,everyone of them had that headress.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seapeople.htm
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2008, 10:00:37 pm »

dhill757

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Erick,
quote:

Why is everyone here so eager to dismiss the veritable mountains of information, compiled over the course of centuries, and studied and pored over by countless thousands of scientists?

Why..? Because these scientists weren't living in those times!

Not only is there the chance of human error,when it comes to archaeological evidence, some of this is akin to sifting through garbage. All that these scientists have to look through is only what has been left behind. Much of what scientists, especially Egyptologists and archaeologists don't know is simple guesswork based on the things they believe they already know, given only what they have to work with. Go to the site of the World Trade Center right now and try to tell me in 2400 years that the tallest buildings of the world once stood there.

Erick, I wish you luck on getting your paper published, as I wish anyone luck who is reseaching Atlantis.

However, I hope you're not basing your evidence simply on root words and linguistics. As I said once before, I doubt that anyone will ever accept that alone as evidence to either prove or disprove Atlantis.

As for the academic community, you probably already know this, but they aren't even interested in Atlantis. Jim Allen (the Bolivian theory) sent his Atlantis research to a professor at Cambridge who promptly sent it back with the note, "Atlantis is a topic of which I have never been interested." Disproving Atlantis is not something new to them, they don't believe in it anyway, and I doubt a way to gain any noteriety. They simply aren't interested in it one way or another, pro or con.

It's disappointing that you and Riven are now arguing the way that Maria and Riven used to argue, you once held some very thoughtful discussions. In the interest of civility, maybe we should suspend talk of your theory until we all get the chance to read and evaluate your paper. It's been my experience that some of the most knowledgeable researchers on Atlantis happen to be, not in the colleges, but right here,at Atlantis Rising. Like I said, there is very little interest in it in the universities.

As for everyone else, just remember, it's just an opinion, people. You don't have to accept it, no more than the opinions of Robert Sarmast or Georgeos or Ignatius Donnelly or anyone else's. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2008, 10:00:59 pm »

Erick Wright

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Docyabut,
You're not making any sense. The pictures of the Peleset (Philistine) head-dress, shown in the links that you provided in your last two postings, are both from the same reliefs - those of Ramesses III at Medinet Habu. Scroll down to near the bottom in the first link you provided. It clearly says Ramesses III.

In regards to the head-dress of the Peleset (Philistines), in his book Collapse of the Bronze Age: The Story of Greece, Troy, Israel, Egypt, and the Peoples of the Sea Manuel Robbins shows 26 examples of similar looking head-dresses, most of which came from the Levant & eastern Sinai Peninsula, around the Arabian Gulf. Only a couple examples were able to be shown from the Mediterranean region.

Warm Regards,

Erick


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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2008, 10:03:46 pm »

Erick Wright

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dhill757,
If we based science upon your reasoning, we wouldn't need to bother to study anything, since (according to you) we can't know anything for a certainty - only those things that happen during our own lifetime.

Yes, in fact I am basing my evidence completely on the etymologies of the words, which is the most sound basis upon which to base the evidence.

As for scholars accepting or rejecting my research, you seem to forget that scholars have already dismissed the Atlantis story as fictional based upon philosophical reasonings. They have just not been able to provide any sort of conclusive evidence to support that position. My research will provide them with the conclusive evidence that has been lacking - and it provides it from within the text itself, and it does so without requiring that any sort of translatory corrections be made. I therefore believe that they will welcome it with open arms.

As for Jim Allen and his Atlantis in Bolivia Theory, it should be remembered that one disinterested scholar at Cambridge does not represent the whole of the academic community that studies the Classics. Aside from which, Jim Allen was attempting to prove the existence of Atlantis - an idea that scholars have already dismissed based upon philosophical reasoning. The interest is there in the universities, you just have to know where and who to go to with it. It also depends a lot on what you are bringing to them.

Why should I suspend discussion of my theory? Just because Riven and I like to occasionally take jabs at each? Our discussions haven't degraded to anywhere near the level that Maria's & Riven's did. And who knows, perhaps if yourself and Riven open your minds a little, and attempt to learn a little about the scientific process, you might just come away with a slightly different attitude?

Anything is possible.

Warm Regards,

Erick


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Posts: 770 | From: Columbus, Ohio U.S.A. | Registered: Sep 2002   
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2008, 10:04:06 pm »

docyabut
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Erick, maybe you are right,and the egyptian war was only between the locals, where Solon got the stories. However Plato tells of of a land that sank in mud and earthquakes.It could only be Thira or Tharsis.Where would he had gotten such a story with so many details?
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2008, 10:04:32 pm »

 
docyabut
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It is hard to believe that Plato`s Atlantis had one million soldiers and 1200 warships and the Egyptians defeated them.however Erick I still believe Plato knew of a sunken civilization, and the only cule he gave was Cades.
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2008, 10:04:52 pm »

Brig

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  posted 06-27-2004 05:23 PM                       
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I beg your pardon Eric. I should have said carpenter installer. You are still an amateur, by whatever classification. I think your research was 8000 years too late.
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2008, 10:05:30 pm »

dhill757

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Erick,
(I apologize in advance if this response is a little long and crabby)

And if we based science upon your reasoning, we wouldn't be thinking for ourselves at all, simply accepting the word of others because who are supposed to be more learned than us, taking their word that they are more knowledgeable than us, even though each person naturally comes to the table with their own natural religious, ethnic and academic predjucices.

(Not to even mention that science changes all the time, and the science of one hundred years ago is hardly the science of today, or will be tomorrow.)

You can't speak with any certainty that there wasn't any Atlantis. I doubt that anyone anywhere could, no matter how great an expert they happen to pose themselves. It's educated guesswork based on the only available information. Actually, the only things we do know anything for a certainty are those things that happen during our own lifetime, and even those things are up for debate sometimes.

I stand fully behind my original point, all you, or any scholar has to go on is simply what ancient civilizations have left behind, which is akin to sifting through garbage. That may be a hard truth for anyone in the fields of archaeology, Egyptology or any other field involved in history, but it is the truth. Try and tell me I'm wrong.

Humbling as it may be, there are no true experts, well, maybe, God.

Actually, it seems belief in God has always been a lot like belief in Atlantis, you either believe in it or you don't, which was, I thought anyway, one of the reasons we were all here to begin with (in this forum, not on earth).

Etymologies of the words may be the most sound basis of evidence for you, maybe even Riven or Georgeos, too. 99% of the public doesn't know what you're talking about and will accept only one sort of evidence: archaeological. Show me an original scroll or stone of Plato that says, "I made it all up..." or words to that effect, then you might make some converts. Short of that, all the root word, linguistic, derivative, cross-language comparisons will just be exercises for bored academics specializing in those languages, they hardly prove anything, one way or another. To really prove or disprove Atlantis, I'm of the opinion at least that one has to do actual field work.

quote:

"As for scholars accepting or rejecting my research, you seem to forget that scholars have already dismissed the Atlantis story as fictional based upon philosophical reasonings."

I haven't forgotten that, I'm the one that reminded you of the fact. I always said that Santorini/Thera was a respectable compromise to them. The sad truth of the matter is that they have been too lazy or disinterested to even investigate the topic.

quote:

"They have just not been able to provide any sort of conclusive evidence to support that position. My research will provide them with the conclusive evidence that has been lacking - and it provides it from within the text itself, and it does so without requiring that any sort of translatory corrections be made. I therefore believe that they will welcome it with open arms."

Actually, Erick, I doubt that, too. Scholars are not interested in Atlantis at all. They don't care to prove it, they don't care to disprove it. They are comfortable in Santorini. It will cause a ripple, perhaps, but after it's all over, they'll still embrace Santorini.

If you want to be welcomed with open arms, keep in mind that the mere mention of Atlantis has ruined careers of some professors. Look at Professor Charles Hapgood, who's research simply insinuated the possibility of Atlantis. He took great pains not to even mention Atlantis, this was a man that was highly thought of in his field before he published "Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings."

quote:

"As for Jim Allen and his Atlantis in Bolivia Theory, it should be remembered that one disinterested scholar at Cambridge does not represent the whole of the academic community that studies the Classics. Aside from which, Jim Allen was attempting to prove the existence of Atlantis - an idea that scholars have already dismissed based upon philosophical reasoning. The interest is there in the universities, you just have to know where and who to go to with it."

Of course there is interest in the universities, but not in Atlantis, in Plato, and in the Classics departments. They are interested in the Atlantis theme as they are interested in all his works, the classics departments, not the departments specializing in history and archaeology. Incidentally, Timaeus and Critias are considered two of Plato's lesser works. It is only because they mention Atlantis that they get their high standing, and that is with people like us, not with the academic community. The more one learns, the less one knows at times.

quote:

"And who knows, perhaps if yourself and Riven open your minds a little, and attempt to learn a little about the scientific process, you might just come away with a slightly different attitude?"

I would, but I see very little scientific process at work here, nothing dealing with carbon 14 dating, archaeology or geology. Then again, to be fair I haven't read your paper. I certainly hope your discussions with Riven, or anyone here don't degenerate to the ones that Riven had with Maria. I've noticed you posted more often this weekend. Often, Maria seemed to think that she could badger people into accepting Georgeos' theories, of course you already know it doesn't wark like that.

Actually, Erick, it makes no difference to me whether you, or anyone here continue to believe in the existence of Atlantis, as I said, it just happens to be one opinion.

If you don't mind a personal observation,though, this latest theory of yours smacks of someone who is just fed up looking for Atlantis.

I think I read one of your posts once that said that the reason you were interested in Atlantis in the first place was to solve a mystery. Maybe that's the wrong way in looking for it, though, maybe Atlantis isn't really a mystery, but more like an algebra problem, if even that.

I know you've done a lot of research, but could it be that maybe you didn't dig deeply enough..? Becoming a little fed up is certainly how it looks from here.


[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 06-27-2004).]


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« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2008, 10:05:51 pm »

docyabut
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I agree with you drill, Solon as a poet might have traveled all over gathering his infomation , however he was a also a law giver in Greece and he did say the story of Atlantis was true. I guess we have to keep digging to connect those dots   Smiley
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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2008, 10:06:35 pm »

docyabut
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For instance,look at this, maybe written at a later date, however scholars still don`t know what it means.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=0000E3AA-70E1-10CF-AD1983414B7F0000


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"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."
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