September 11th: Conspiracies & Cover-ups - Original Version

[Tesha Dodge]

Blackstone

Moderator
Member # 125

Rate Member   posted 04-06-2007 06:54 PM                       
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I like your quote Merl. 

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Certainty Murders Possibility ~Shinsei
Power over others is Weakness disguised as Strength ~Eckhart Tolle

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Posts: 179 | From: Oregon | Registered: Mar 2000   

[Tesha Dodge]

 
DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-06-2007 08:08 PM                       
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Oh merlin left with the others.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 
 

[Tesha Dodge]

Volitzer

Member
Member # 245

Rate Member   posted 04-09-2007 03:12 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Merl:

Not really. The "American public", as an entity unto itself, doesn't know what it wants most of the time. They seem to want opposites depending upon the mood of the moment. My honest opinion of "the American Public" is that I don't trust them as a voting body. If we were to leave everything up to a majority vote of the "public", we would have banned abortion in the 70's, suffrage for women (19th ammendment) would never have happened, civil rights for African Americans would never have happened, we'd still be burning witches at the stake, and finally, we'd still be praying to Jesus Christ in every setting - state-funded or otherwise.

Right the American constituency is just too ignorant to vote in politicians who look after their interests and to do what's right for America.  Not to say there aren't ignorant Americans but they usually don't vote anyway. Those who vote are generally educated on the issues. Like the Abolitionists and the Suffragists.

What the American public is suffering from is a forced delusion by the media. The delusion that the war should have been won, and done so with fewer casualties.

No America is sick of conservative propaganda and Bilderberg Imperialism. Sick of the Corporatocracy and the lies they stage to further their agenda. Look how gas went up after the Democrats took away BIG OIL's tax breaks??? Gotta get th imperial operations money from somewhere.


Furthermore that the "rebuilding phase" should be a "political" process with little (if any) military involvement. In the beginning, the public would have voted in HUGE majority to go to war with Iraq, just like they did with the Taliban after 9/11. Now, they would be bringing the troops home. Our attention span is limited to a "Survivor" and Playstation timeframe. We only want to see success - and we want to see it immediately; all of the time. Setbacks are cumulative and multiply counted with the press, whereas successes are considered only once and are as fleeting as an aroma in the wind.

That is because a religious Civil-War is erupting between the Sunni and Shia tribes over in Iraq for which America can't win. It would be like the Red-Coats trying to win at America's Civil-War between the Union Blues and Confederate Grays.

The fact is, the media is only reporting what they want to and they do so in order to keep you coming back for more. The good stuff won't do that, so they keep trotting out the bad - even if there isn't any. I was listening to NPR again yesterday, and I wasn't surprised to hear that the BBC reporter was embellishing the death toll - again. On the days where the sectarian violence is bad, they report the number of dead and wounded. On the days when it is relatively quite, we get a full acounting of all of the dead for the week and the totals for the year, and the comparative numbers from the previous weeks, months and years. By the end of the "Good day's" report, you'd think half the country died. That's media bias, and they are a major part of what's wrong in Iraq. Coupled with the American public's desire to be the "Saviour of the World" without ever making anyone unhappy, without killing anyone in war, and without ever having to say their sorry - we have a full-fledged, four-alarm cluster funk.

So - no, I really don't feel bad about being in the minority. You should try sticking up for something that isn't popular... It might give a little boost to your self esteem.

The augmentation has already started, and look what happened. Was it 125 people that got killed in Bagdad yesterday? Yep, that was what I saw at last count.

You make my point so clearly for me, I hardly need to respond. Your impatience and desire for a rush to judgement is only surmounted by your willingness to rush to action. The "surge" has not actually begun - yet you are looking for results. Just ignore the fact that people die in war, and ignore the fact that Bush did not promise that no lives would be lost once the "surge" occurred. Impertinence is a youthful quality that is tempered with experience, and smoothed by time. -- FDR --

Gee, what do you expect them to do, cut off funding for the troops? They might do that yet, it comes in steps.

No, Allison that isn't the only option - nice try. I love it when you try and beat people into a corner by offering them the only options you can think of... Luckily I brought my own brain with me. The "anti-Iraq War" folks have had 3 Full years to do something - they've done nothing. In fact, if it weren't for the press making every blemish seem like a boil of biblical proportions - they wouldn't be doing anything now. At some level, even the Libs know that the situation isn't anything at all like the media pronounces.

Nahh, they won't cut off the funding - they'll ride this political pony all of the way to 2008.

Now - for "Options" that they could have used - but didn't, and apparently ALLISON didn't think of them either:

1. De-authorize the war with a vote. Prior to the Democrat majority - this would have been viewed as a "No confidence Vote" and would have sent a signal to the EU that the Congress needed their help to dissuade the Administration from its path.

2. Impeach the President, the V.P., and/or the cabinet.

3. Open investigations into the cabinet level staff - particularly Rumsfeld.

4. Pass legislation to authorize the requirements of supplies that cannot possibly be paid for by the current funding. This would have completely blown the budget and forced the "re-scaling" of activities.

5. Place a timed collapse into the military spending fund, shutting off the spigot at a pre-determined point. Once the money's gone, the occupation ends.

Would any of it work? Who knows... But it would have sent a clear signal that someone was interested in actually stopping this thing. Apparently, aside from Dennis, no one was willing to look unpopular in the face of their constituency.

You have no respect for anyone here but Bush, Ishtar, which make your opinion also in the minority. Truth is, the Dems could support Bush, cut off funding, or do nothing at all, and your level of support for them would pretty much stay where it is right now: at 0. So why should they do things to cater to your vote?

We were both referring to the Democrats and the Republicans Allison. Put your snittiness away.

Bottom line, Merl and Ishtar, is that the opinion of both you guys is in the minority of public opinion, whereas mine is with the majority. Sucks to be you guys, I guess, wrong all the time. 

I personally have never felt bad or lonely about sticking to what I believe; particularly if the facts support it. I suppose that Ish and I both will be able to recognize the underlying commentary in that temper tantrum... I am sorry that you feel compelled to cater to what is popular Allison. Self-esteem is a serious issue for girls these days (don't I know it with 4 daughters), and your lashing out isn't going to get you any. Self-esteem comes from gaining respect through actions and deeds. Taking the "road less travelled" and succeeding, or taking an unpopular stand and convincing people that you were right. It is not bestowed upon you because you pander to the "popular" people who you aspire to be. I would also point out that it all begins with self respect, which stems from doing what you know is right - not what is popular.

I wish you luck with taking that journey, and I hope that you viewed this summary for what it was; an attempt to help.

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[ 04-09-2007, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: Volitzer ]
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Posts: 6864 | From: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: Oct 2000   

[Tesha Dodge]

Blackstone

Moderator
Member # 125

Rate Member   posted 04-11-2007 04:13 PM                       
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Too bad Merlin left. Seemed a reasonable person and an asset for the forums.

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Certainty Murders Possibility ~Shinsei
Power over others is Weakness disguised as Strength ~Eckhart Tolle

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Posts: 179 | From: Oregon | Registered: Mar 2000   

[Tesha Dodge]

DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-12-2007 08:35 AM                       
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I know

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 

[Tesha Dodge]

 
incredulous
Member
Member # 2428

  posted 04-12-2007 08:40 AM                   
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blackstone - good of you to fill the vacuum. there seems to be a shortage of qualified posters these days.

i wonder what happened ...
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Posts: 540 | From: near d.c. | Registered: Apr 2005   
 

[Tesha Dodge]

 
Blackstone

Moderator
Member # 125

Rate Member   posted 04-13-2007 11:01 PM                       
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People started talking politics, got bent out of shape, and most left for another site due to the rancor. That was back in January or thereabouts. I'll leave it to others to offer any details or opinions on the matter.
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Posts: 179 | From: Oregon | Registered: Mar 2000   
 

[Tesha Dodge]

Brig

Administrator
Member # 802

  posted 04-14-2007 05:49 PM                       
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Blackstone, politics had nothing to do with the decision to ban Byron and I thought you had been made aware of the situation. I read a message of yours that indicated as much. When you have posters with multiple identities you can quickly fill a forum. Personally I prefer a smaller forum with real people. I think real researchers will return once they realize the troublemakers have their own forum where no one can disagree with them.
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Posts: 10253 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002   

[Tesha Dodge]

 
Blackstone

Moderator
Member # 125

Rate Member   posted 04-14-2007 06:40 PM                       
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Brig,

I didn't mean Byron's political opinions had anything to do with it. People started insulting and casting aspersions over each other due to the political discussions and THAT was what led to Byron's banning. He took them farther than anyone else and, when multiply warned, didn't take heed and got banned.

It was the rancor resulting from the fights that caused the majority of people to leave. Now, some people may have gotten upset with each other over conversations in other topics that may have pushed them over the top, and I know there are other reasons as well, but I believe the core troubles began with the political fights.

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Certainty Murders Possibility ~Shinsei
Power over others is Weakness disguised as Strength ~Eckhart Tolle

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Posts: 179 | From: Oregon | Registered: Mar 2000   
 

[Tesha Dodge]

DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-14-2007 06:45 PM                       
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yea it was politics and religion

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 

[Tesha Dodge]

 
DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-14-2007 06:46 PM                       
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Oh, and global warming, LOLOLOL, silly actually.

Global warming is close to a religion now, however.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 
 

[Tesha Dodge]

DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-14-2007 06:52 PM                       
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Let's see plus this topic was started by, "Tesha Dodge," and is straying dangerously off topic,

Soon someone will ask for it to be closed, like the "global warmimg," thread and the "sexist men," thread, that were closed by the people that left,

Like, does anyone really care?

It is really interesting watch'in all this pseudo drama.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 
 

[Tesha Dodge]

Blackstone

Moderator
Member # 125

Rate Member   posted 04-14-2007 09:10 PM                       
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I don't think I agree with anyone locking a topic unless it is causing major disruption. Hmm...now that's an idea to force a 'time out'. A topic moderator could lock a topic for a few days if things are getting out of hand. Kind of like closing the stock exchange at the end of the day to stop investors from freaking out and destroying a stock without having had a night to think it over. But this too is way off topic. And not that interesting anyway...

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Certainty Murders Possibility ~Shinsei
Power over others is Weakness disguised as Strength ~Eckhart Tolle

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Posts: 179 | From: Oregon | Registered: Mar 2000   

[Tesha Dodge]

 
DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-15-2007 08:15 AM                       
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quote:
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 But this too is way off topic. And not that interesting anyway...
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Yes, it's been beat to death.

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
 
 

[Tesha Dodge]

DingBatty Ole Ishtar

Member
Member # 736

  posted 04-15-2007 08:17 AM                       
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Here's what I see, a small forum with a few happy and enlightened poster is desirable

"Less is sometimes "MORE."

[ 04-15-2007, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”