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September 11th: Conspiracies & Cover-ups - Original Version

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Tesha Dodge
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« Reply #120 on: March 12, 2008, 01:32:35 pm »

This is the ONLY identifiable piece of the fuselage of the alleged 757. As you can see it lies some distance from the building. The US government and Hoffman would have us believe that this piece miraculously escaped the fate of the entire mass of the rest of the body of the plane, which we are told either entered the Pentagon and was destroyed in the fire, or "disintegrated" on impact.

Meyssan's "Le Pentagate" was published shortly after five frames of video from a Pentagon security camera were leaked. Meyssan and other theorists jumped on the fact that the first frame seems to show a much smaller plane than a 757 approaching the Pentagon, without asking if the video frames were authentic. In fact they bear clear signs of forgery.

Indeed. There is clear evidence that the only video that the US government released of the "757" appears to be missing frames, but who are the forgers? Did the US government, which insists that a 757 hit the Pentagon, deliberately remove footage of the 757 in order to fuel conspiracy theories and thereby undermine its own argument??

Meyssan's conclusions were echoed by Gerard Holmgren, who published the lengthy Physical and Mathematical Analysis of the Pentagon Crash in October of 2002. Like Meyssan, Holmgren relied on photographs in which obstructions hide large regions of first-floor damage. Holmgren's unwieldy manifesto-sized analysis was widely embraced by no-757-crash theorists.

Again Hoffman seeks to con his readers. Holmgren's argument does not rest on "photographs in which obstructions hide large regions of first-floor damage" but rather, in his own words, on the fact that:

"the object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45-degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12-foot diameter through three rings (six walls). A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on..."

The sloppy analysis of Meyssan and certain other Pentagon researchers (such as their reliance on photographs in which jets of fire retardant foam and smoke obscure damaged areas) leaves these researchers, and by association the entire 9/11 Truth Movement, open to attack by detractors.

See our previous comment. There is nothing sloppy about the analysis of Meyssan or Holmgren. They, like so many others, can see clearly that the claim that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon is the weakest link in the official version of the events of 9/11.

Other work by skeptics of the 757 crash was far more careful. In mid-2002, an anonymous author produced a detailed damage assessment in an article concluding that the damage was consistent with the crash of a large plane, but not of a 757.

In early 2003 Dick Eastman developed a "two plane" theory, which holds that the damage to the Pentagon was done by a small killer jet, such as an F-16, while Flight 77 merely appeared to crash, clearing the facade behind a pyrotechnic display and overflying the Pentagon in a kind of magician's trick. Eastman was unique among the no-757-crash theorists in at least attempting to accommodate much of the eyewitness evidence.

We fail to see Hoffman's point. The evidence is so extensive that there are many ways to prove almost conclusively that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon. The bottom line is, however, the same.

In September of 2003, I assisted Jeff Strahl in developing a slide presentation which concluded that "whatever struck the Pentagon was not a Boeing 757." This talk, which borrowed from the work of Eric Hufschmid and said anonymous author, further popularized the notion that a 757 was not involved in the attack.

In early 2004, Richard Stanley and Jerry Russell added yet another variation to the mix of no-757-crash theories in The Five-Sided Fantasy Island, advancing a scenario that combines Eastman's Flight 77 overflight theory with the idea that demolition charges were used to produce the damage to the Pentagon.

In late 2004 two new videos promoting no-757-crash theory appeared. Both combine slick production values with highly selective presentations of evidence. In Plane Site, a DVD, advances the no-757-impact along with the Building 6 explosion myth and highly dubious theories that the towers were hit by objects other than Flights 11 and 175. The obvious propagandistic quality of these pieces was one factor in persuading me to re-examine my own endorsement of the no-757-crash theory.

Hoffman is obviously referring to our own Pentagon Strike Flash presentation here. While there are certainly some problems with the "In Plane Site" DVD, specifically the idea that Flight 11 and Flight 175 were not the planes that hit the WTC (when they most likely were) our Pentagon Strike video simply presented the available evidence which pointed to something other Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. As we have stated before, it is not our job to prove that Flight 77 DID hit the Pentagon; that task lies squarely with those members of the US government who insist on the official version of events.

Ignoring the Eyewitness Evidence

Proponents of the no-757-crash theory have tended to minimize the many eyewitness accounts that a 757-like aircraft flew into the Pentagon and exploded. Many simply cherry-pick one or two accounts that seem to indicate a much smaller plane, and ignore the larger body of eyewitness evidence.

This selective presentation of witness accounts is exemplified by a tendency to quote only a single phrase from a single witness: Mike Walter's use of "a cruise missile with wings." In context, it's clear that Walter was only using the cruise missile description metaphorically:

"I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low'. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings."

It is natural for eyewitnesses to refer to the aircraft that they saw hitting the Pentagon as "an American Airlines jet" or even "Flight 77" because we have all been repeatedly exposed to endless news reports and government officials talking about "Flight 77" hitting the Pentagon (with the exception of Rumsfeld of course). The crucial point here is the fact that Mike Walter defined a massive Boeing 757 as a "cruise missile with wings"!

Another eyewitness account frequently cited as evidence that the attack plane was not an airliner is that of air traffic controller Danielle O'Brien:

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air-traffic controllers, that that was a military plane."

That the controllers observed a plane being flown in a manner not normal for jetliner does not mean the plane was not a jetliner. Simple calculations show that the spiral dive attack maneuver was well within the capabilities of a Boeing 757. In fact, the body of eyewitness evidence provides almost no support for the no-757 theories, but does indicate that the event involved more than a simple plane crash, such as a sharp detonation wave not explainable by the crash of a jetliner. Once again, such substantial evidence that contradicts the official story has been eclipsed by the no-757-crash theory.

We wonder what "simple calculations" Hoffman is speaking of? For Hoffman, the complicated subject of "detonation waves" consitutes much more "substantial evidence" than the fact that a massive 757 plane completely dissapeared into a 16 foot hole in the Pentagon leaving NO TRACE other than a mangled but otherwise pristine piece of metal.

The "Physical Evidence" Case

Many apparent features of the crash that are documented by the photographs of the crash site -- and especially by photos taken before the overhanging section collapsed -- seem to support an overwhelming case against the crash of a 757. These features include the following.

1. The lawn shows no signs of gouging from a 757's low-hanging engines, despite eyewitness claims that the plane hit the ground before the facade.
2. The impact hole dimensions are not large enough to accommodate the entire profile of a 757.
3. The lawn shows almost no signs of crash debris immediately following the crash.
4. Photos from inside and outside the building during the recovery operation show very little aircraft debris.
5. Damaged columns remain standing where dense parts of the plane, such as the starboard engine, would have hit.
6. Unscored limestone and unbroken windows are visible in areas of the facade where the outer wings and vertical tail section of a 757 would have hit.
7. There are obstacles in the plane's alleged flight path, such as cable spools.

This list is far from exhaustive. Many other features are often cited as evidence against a 757 crash, such as the positions of downed lamp-posts, the orientation of the damaged generator, and the position and shape of the C-ring punch-out hole. The number of no-757-crash arguments based on these features, and the logical independence of many of them, seem to many to constitute an overwhelming cumulative case against the crash of a 757. Whereas a deductive case is only as strong as its weakest argument, a cumulative case is as strong as the sum of its arguments. However, a cumulative case may appear strong without actually being so if it is composed entirely of arguments that evaporate under scrutiny. Let's examine four of the more persuasive arguments, which I've given the following labels:

* The missing wings and tail
* The vanishing jetliner
* The incorrect impact imprint
* The obstacle dodge

The Missing Wings and Tail

This argument, based on features 1, 2, and 3, holds that since the outer expanses of the wings and most of the vertical tail section of a 757 could not have fit through the facade's impact punctures, they should have been visible in the post-crash photographs of the building's exterior.

The argument makes the error of assuming that large pieces of the wings and tail should have remained intact. A crash study suggests that the over-300-mph impact of a jetliner with the Pentagon's heavy masonry facade would have reduced the entire aircraft -- and certainly its relatively light wings and tail -- to confetti.

We were wondering when he would pull this one out of the bag. Hoffman has joined the deluded masses of obedient Americans in attempting to counter the damning evidence that he himself outlines in points 1-7 above with the assertion that the entire plane (minus the pristine mangled piece of metal on the lawn) simply "disintegrated" on impact. Most readers will have at some time in their lives seen the results of a head on car crash. Imagine that two cars, each traveling at 80 mph, hit each other head on at a combined speed of 160 mph. The likely result is that much of the body of both cars will be crumpled beyond recognition. It is not unlikely, however, that the back ends of both cars will be relatively unscathed. There is a reason for this. The kinetic energy of the cars is transferred to the initial point of impact - the fronts. After the initial impact the kinetic energy is progressively reduced, which is reflected in the lessening damage to the rest of the car, until finally all of it has been absorbed by the bodies of the cars and is exhausted. This is the reason for the relative lack of damage to the backs of cars in a controlled head-on collision.

We can apply the same logic to the Pentagon crash. The bulk of the kinetic energy of the fast moving plane is absorbed both by the front of the building and the nose of the plane. It is reasonable to suggest then that the impact point at the Pentagon and the nose, and some of the fuselage of the plane, would have disintegrated, but to suggest that all of the plane would be subjected to the same forces as that experienced by the part of the plane that makes initial contact with the Pentagon wall is to suggest that when we throw a steel rod at a wall, the damage at the end that impacts the wall should be the same all along the length of the rod. Clearly, such a suggestion contradicts elementary laws of physics.

Another error in this argument is its implicit assumption that the photographs of the Pentagon's lawn show it to be debris-free. In fact, the photographs have pronounced foreshortening of regions near the building, which, together with variations in the terrain, may hide significant debris fields.

"May hide significant debris"? Is Hoffman really presenting this as an argument as to why we should dispense with the "no plane" argument? Should we also wait for the US government to allow us access to this "debris" so that we can prove that the offcial story that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon is true? We won't hold our breath.

The Vanishing Jetliner

This argument, based on features 3 and 4, holds that since there are no photographs showing large aircraft debris at the Pentagon, no jetliner could have crashed there. Recognizable pieces that were photographed, such as landing gear and engine parts, are few enough that they could have been planted.

Not only could they have been planted, but the circular rim of the landing gear wheel that is presented as evidence by the US government is too small to be part of the landing gear of a Boeing 757, but bears a startling likeness to the rim of the wheel of the landing gear of a Global Hawk.

This argument makes the error of the negative proof: the lack of evidence showing something's existence is taken as proof of its non-existence. The seeming disappearance of the 80-ton plane becomes much less mysterious when one considers two facts.

As noted above, in similar crashes, the entire aircraft is converted to small confetti, most of which would be unrecognizable.
There are few publicly available photographs of the interior of the building shortly after the crash. FEMA's investigative team was not allowed on the site until after all the debris had been removed.
So the fact that there is no evidence of a 757 having crashed at the Pentagon is by no means proof that no 757 hit the Pentagon.

So what would Mr Hoffman accept as evidence?

It is rather curious that the "error of the negative proof" is exactly the argument used by Bush and the Neocons before the invasion of Iraq. Administration officials argued that the lack of evidence of WMD's in Iraq cannot be used as proof that those weapons don't exist.

As another example, Bush can declare someone an enemy combatant and throw that person in jail even if there is no evidence proving the individual's involvement in terrorist activity, because the lack of evidence doesn't necessarily prove innocence.

The Incorrect Impact Imprint

This argument, based on features 5 and 6, holds that, since there is no impact imprint of a 757 on the Pentagon's facade, no such plane could have crashed there. In a crash at such a speed (over 300 mph) the wings and tail had too much momentum to deviate much from their trajectory even as the plane crashed into the facade. Therefore, even these relatively light parts should have at least scored the facade's rather soft limestone facing, and perhaps broken windows.

Even admitting that there are uncertainties about just how much damage the wing ends and tail of a 757 should have done to the Pentagon's facade, this argument is difficult to reconcile with the simple crash of a 757 -- at least of an intact 757. However, if the wing ends and tail were destroyed before impact, they might not have left impact impressions. That possibility is explored in the Unexamined Explanations section.

Hoffman is forced to resort to ever more fantastic hypotheses to deny the evidence that is before his eyes. Now we are asked to contemplate that somehow Flight 77's wings and tail were "disintegrated" before the plane actually hit the building and then presumably blew away in the breeze.

The Obstacle Dodge

This argument, based on feature 7, holds that the flightpath determined by downed light poles and eyewitness accounts takes the plane too low to have cleared obstacles near the building, such as several cable spools.

The spool that appears most problematic for the plane's supposed flightpath is the large upright one nearest the building. In most photographs it appears to be just a few feet from the building. However, appearances are deceiving given the foreshortening in the photographs. One article supporting the no-757-crash theory estimates that the large spool is about 28 feet from the facade. It also states that the diameter of the spool is 6 feet, 6 inches.

Given those coordinates and dimensions, and assuming the plane's trajectory was such that it was losing one foot of altitude for every ten feet of distance traveled, then the bottom of the plane's fuselage could have cleared the spool by a foot and crashed into the facade at an elevation of five feet, placing the bottoms of the engines at ground level. Contentions that turbulence from such a near miss would have toppled the spool are difficult to evaluate without knowing the weight of the spool, whether it was secured to the ground, and whether the spools rolled following the crash.

Hoffman is happy to dismiss the strongest evidence showing that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon and argue "significant" details about whether or not a Boeing 757 was able to clear a metal spool or not.

Unexamined Explanations

The last two arguments in the previous section illustrate just how easy it is to accept a pre-conceived conclusion from evidence while failing to consider other equally plausible explanations. I became convinced that the attack plane was not a 757 based primarily on those two arguments, and only later re-evaluated my conclusions in light of other possibilities.

An alternative explanation for the incorrect impact imprint consistent with the crash of a 757 was proposed by French researcher Eric Bart. He suggests that the jetliner was progressively shredded by explosives starting just as its nose was beginning to impact the wall. This theory explains the lack of impact impressions of the jetliner's extremities, since they would have been reduced to confetti before impact. It also accounts for the large punctures in the facade, since the remains of the plane's heaviest portions could have retained enough momentum to breach the walls and enter the building.

Again, the strength of the evidence that Hoffman is attempting to refute requires that he resort to increasingly outlandish theories to make his point.

Bart's theory may sound far-fetched, and some detractors have compared it to the aggressively promoted idea that the South Tower was hit by a pod-equipped cargo jet that fired a missile just before impact. However, the comparison is not deserved. Whereas the pod-plane idea is based on imaginative interpretations of artifacts in blurry video images, Bart's theory reconciles the lack of imprint of the tail and wing ends with the overwhelming eyewitness evidence that a jetliner flew into the Pentagon and exploded. Several eyewitnesses even recalled details that seem to be explainable only by the plane being shredded before impact.

Again, the strength of the evidence that Hoffman is attempting to refute requires that he resort to increasingly outlandish theories to make his point.

Bart's theory is consistent with the crash of Flight 77 at the Pentagon, but not with the official story that it was hijacked by Muslim terrorists, since it assumes the plane was prepared prior to the attack.

Other researchers, such as Stanley and Russell, have proposed that the Pentagon attack was engineered to make it appear that a 757 crashed when none had. Bart's theory reverses this, suggesting that the crash of a 757 was engineered to make it appear that no such plane had crashed.

Now Hoffman wants us to believe that the perpetrators of 9/11 deliberately inserted the embryo of the conspiracy theory into their planning of the Pentagon attack for the purpose of...

The apparent motive for such a deception will likely escape 9/11 skeptics on both sides of the controversy about what hit the Pentagon. Most adherents to no-757-crash theories have ignored Bart's theory and the body of eyewitness evidence supporting it. Most opponents of no-757-crash theories have not looked closely enough at the impact damage pattern to see a problem reconciling it with the simple crash of a 757. This is exactly the conflict that the engineered crash may have been designed to create. Experts at psychological operations, the perpetrators could have anticipated that skeptics would divide into two groups: those persuaded by eyewitness evidence that a 757 had crashed, and those persuaded by physical evidence that one had not. The ongoing controversy could then be exploited by the perpetrators to several ends:

to keep the skeptics divided
to divert skeptics' resources from other more productive lines of inquiry
to provide a bizarre-sounding theory with which to tar the entire 9/11 Truth Movement
And here we get to the core of Hoffman's argument. The idea that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon was seeded by the conspirators themselves in order to confuse the issue and keep conspiracy theorists divided. Yet we notice that rather than refusing to succumb to such manipulation and cutting through the lies and sticking to the facts, Hoffman is adding his voice to the cacophony and loudly arguing against the core evidence which strongly suggests that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.

If you accept the premise that the crash of a 757 was engineered to create seemingly contradictory bodies of evidence in order to seed truth-obfuscating conflicts, it is easy to explain crash-site anomalies beyond the facade impact imprint. For example, the spool that is arguably a problem for the plane's approach could have been stood up immediately after the crash to bolster the anticipated no-757-crash theory. While this may seem far-fetched, it is much less far-fetched than suppositions of no-757-crash theorists, such as that the downing of the highway lamp-posts was engineered independent of the attack plane.

Even if the Pentagon attack was set up to create seemingly contradictory bodies of evidence in order to confuse truth seekers, the fact still remains that something hit the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11, and evidence exists to prove more or less conclusively what it was. At present that evidence suggests that Flight 77 was not involved. It is indeed far-fetched to think that the conspirators would deliberately attempt to sow the seeds of the argument that a Boeing 757 did not hit the Pentagon when the US government's entire "war on terror" is predicated upon the argument that Arab terrorists hijacked four planes and crashed them into American landmarks on 9/11.

Propaganda

In 2004 two videos promoting the no-757-crash theory were released: the Pentagon Strike Flash animation by Darren Williams, and the In Plane Site DVD by David von Kleist. While different in format, both share the following characteristics:

Both cherry-pick and de-contextualize eyewitness statements while ignoring the eyewitness consensus that a jetliner crashed.
Both advance several of the faulty interpretations of photographic evidence that I debunk in the Pentagon Attack Errors section of 911review.com.
Both use a kind of shock-and-awe presentation style to engage people emotionally rather than critically.
Darren Williams Pentagon Strike video, produced by Signs of the Times, did not "de-contextualise" the events of that day. It simply drew on available evidence to show that it was highly unlikely that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon and presented "the case for the prosecution" as it were. If the US government as the defendant wants to make a counter case, then all that is required is that it release the confiscated video tapes that would prove conclusively that the official story is correct.

Whereas the much shorter Pentagon Strike functions primarily by selective and misleading presentation of evidence, In Plane Site presents patently ludicrous claims as fact. For example, von Kleist quotes a supposed expert from the Environmental Assessment Association as saying:

"Looking at the total weight of this aircraft in conjunction with its velocity, the Pentagon should have been reduced to the thickness of a pancake."

The logical fallacies, misrepresentations of evidence, and propagandistic style of In Plane Site and Pentagon Strike contrast with a far more rational approach by other videos, websites, and books by 9/11 skeptics that use physical evidence to refute elements of the official story. Yet the no-757-crash videos have enjoyed a wider exposure than the other far more credible efforts. Snopes.com, an urban-legend debunking website, provides four links to the Pentagon Strike animation on its Hunt the Boeing! page. Why are apologists for the official story promoting this video (if in a backhanded way)? Perhaps because the no-757-crash theory is more effective at bolstering the official story than undermining it.

Here, Hoffman does exactly that which he accuses others of doing. Snopes.com links to our Pentagon Strike Flash presentation only after attempting to completely debunk the arguments therein. As such, the link is hardly a "promotion".

An Opening For Attackers

Before 2004, the mainstream and alternative media were virtually free of any mention of the existence of a community of skeptics challenging the core tenets of official story of '9/11'. While there were numerous reports of warnings of the attacks, there was only minimal coverage of the spectacular failures of the air defense network, and there was virtually no mention of the physical evidence of the demolition of Building 7 and the Twin Towers. That changed on May 26, 2004, when Amy Goodman interviewed David Ray Griffin on Democracy Now about his book The New Pearl Harbor on the show The New Pearl Harbor: A Debate On A New Book That Alleges The Bush Administration Was Behind The 9/11 Attacks. Although Griffin mentions an array of compelling evidence that the attack was an inside job, the majority of the interview revolves around the issue of what hit the Pentagon, as Chip Berlet, whom Goodman invited on the program to debate Griffin, zeroes in on the weakest part of The New Pearl Harbor. As a result, almost no time is spent discussing the much stronger parts of Griffin's argument.

On September 13, The Nation magazine published Executive Secrecy: Conspiracy or Failure? by CIA agent Robert Baer. Baer ridicules "conspiracy theories" that 9/11/01 was an inside job, suggesting that this "monstrous proposition" and Griffin's choice to "recycle some of the wilder conspiracy theories" is driven by the evasions and lies of the Bush administration. First on Baer's list of these wilder theories is "that the Pentagon was hit by a missile rather than by American Airlines Flight 77."

On October 7, The Washington Post published Conspiracy Theories Flourish on the Internet, which describes Pentagon Strike and its popularization in some detail, and then uses it to deride 9/11 "conspiracy theories." The article makes no mention of other areas of research by skeptics of the official story. Instead, it implies that the idea that "something other than a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon" is the only proposition advanced by skeptics to challenge the official story.

Perhaps there is some "sour grapes" on the part of Hoffman here that the editors of this page were interviewed by the Washington Post and not 9/11review.com. The simple fact is that, if it were not for the initiative that we took in creating the "Pentagon Strike" Flash presentation, there would have been NO coverage of 9/11 "conspiracy theories" at all. Thanks to the efforts of Darren Williams, an estimated 300 million people around the world, most of them previously unaware of the truth of 9/11, have been given the opportunity to consider the truth of our reality and the people that control it.

On November 8, The New York Times published A Hidden Story Behind Sept. 11? One Man's Ad Campaign Says So, to describe the campaign of millionaire Jimmy Walter to publicize skepticism about the official story of '9/11'. The second sentence of the article introduces Walter's suggestion that "no plane flew into the Pentagon," and the third sentence that Building 7 was "detonated from within." While the striking similarity of the implosion of Building 7 to other building implosions produced by controlled demolition is one of the most compelling pieces of physical evidence that the 9/11/01 attack was an inside job, the juxtaposition of the idea that Building 7 was detonated next to the idea that no plane crashed into the Pentagon is an effective tool for discrediting the former. The New York Times article provides no links to the video evidence of the demolition of Building 7, such as that on wtc7.net, but it gives an explanation for the collapse by fire science professor Glenn P. Corbett -- an explanation that people who have not seen the videos are likely to accept.

On November 10, Air America broadcast a segment featuring David Von Kleist, producer of In Plane Site, which promoted the two central memes of his video: the Pentagon no-757-crash idea and the South Tower pod-plane idea. Because the no-757-crash idea is taken seriously by a substantial portion of serious 9/11 researchers -- an acceptance not shared by the pod-plane idea -- disinformationists can use the Pentagon no-jetliner idea to leverage the more ridiculous WTC crash theories, such as pod-planes, missile attacks, holograms, etc.

We do not agree with Hoffman's claim that seriously considering the "no plane at the Pentagon" theory opens the door to joining the "pod people". The important difference between the Pentagon attack and the WTC attacks is that a reasonable argument backed by clear evidence can be made for the "no plane at the Pentagon" theory. This is not true of the "pod" theory.

With these and other articles and broadcasts, millions of people are being introduced to the idea that the attack was an inside job via theories that have no support in evidence, sound ludicrous, and are easily discredited. Unfortunately, first impressions are difficult to reverse.

See the last comment above. There is nothing "ludicrous" about the fact that there is no trace of a 757 at the Pentagon.

How the Issue Plays

I frequently encounter the opinion that, regardless of the errors underlying the Pentagon no-757-crash theory, its recent popularization and press attention can only be helpful to the cause of truth exposure because it gets more people to question the official story and explore evidence contradicting other facets of that story. Indeed, many active skeptics were introduced to the issue through material on the Pentagon crash.

However, it is more likely that the prominence of the no-757-crash theory will damage the cause, particularly as it reaches a wider audience less inclined to research the issue. People introduced to 9/11 skepticism through the no-757-crash theory will either be stimulated to examine evidence that the attack was an inside job, or will continue to ignore such ideas as the delusions of conspiracy theorists. The vast majority of such people will likely fall into the second group for several reasons.

The mainstream press is casting the no-757-crash theory as a loony construct of conspiracy theorists, and representative of all 9/11 skepticism.
The theory sounds ludicrous to most people who encounter it for the first time.
The videos promoting it use faulty analysis and manipulative techniques that will alienate the discerning viewer.
The popular videos and supporting websites are dead-ends, providing no links to responsible 9/11 research sites.
Hoffman clearly does not understand the controlled nature of the mainstream media which dictates what the average person believes as truth. The fact is that the mainstream press would cast ANY evidence of government complicity in the 9/11 attacks as a "loony construct of conspiracy theorists", and as a result ANY evidence of government complicity in the 9/11 attacks would sound ludicrous to most people who encounter it for the first time. As we have already stated, we do not use "faulty analysis or manipulative techniques", we simply present the evidence in a manner that best conveys the message. As for Hoffman's statement that: "the popular videos and supporting web sites are dead-ends, providing no links to responsible 9/11 research sites", we can only take this to mean that Hoffman does not approve of the information on "Signs of the Times", which is linked at the end of the "Pentagon Strike" Flash Presentation or any of its affiliated sites. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion. We shall let history decide who was "responsible" in their efforts to bring the truth to those seeking it.

My conclusion is borne out by the evidence. According to the Washington Post article, millions of people have viewed Pentagon Strike. Yet the visits to investigative websites, such as those listed on 911truth.org, have not skyrocketed into hundreds of thousands of visits per day.

The 300 million people who viewed the "Pentagon Strike" Flash Presentation were mostly average citizens who received the video in their email from friends. Such people are not inclined to change their entire world view in an instant.

Some have suggested that, regardless of the relative factual merits, similar dynamics would be in play if the Twin Towers' demolition was being promoted with the same vigor as the Pentagon no-757-crash theory. Isn't the idea that the Twin Towers were demolished with explosives as incredible as the idea that no jetliner crashed at the Pentagon? Yes and no. There is a huge psychological barrier to accepting the conclusion that controlled demolition brought down the towers, and that conclusion supposes a conspiracy far beyond the 19 hijackers. However, there are fundamental qualitative differences.

The no-757-crash theory supposes that something asserted by the official story and witnessed by hundreds of people (the crash of a jetliner) didn't happen; whereas the towers' demolition supposes that something beyond the official story and supported by witness accounts (explosive detonations) did happen. Using the JFK assassination as an analogy, the no-757-crash theory is like saying that Kennedy was not shot at all, whereas the towers' demolition is like saying that there were additional gunmen beyond Lee Harvey Oswald.

The no-757-crash theory requires accounting for a missing Flight 77 and the fates of its passengers and crew; whereas the towers' demolition requires no additional theories to account for the fates of Flights 11 and 175.

Millions of people are aware, if subconsciously, of evidence of the demolition of the Twin Towers, such as the fine dust that blanketed lower Manhattan, and the explosive nature of the collapses; whereas no one has direct evidence that something other than a 757 crashed into the Pentagon. The lack of photographic evidence that a 757 crashed into the Pentagon should not be construed as evidence that none did.
Hoffman comments again belie his lack of awareness of the true magnitude of what we are dealing with and the extent of the control exerted by government over what the population believes. The psychological barrier is not found in the details of the conspiracy but in the very idea of conspiracy itself. It would be as difficult for the average citizen to believe that no plane hit the Pentagon as to believe that the US government demolished the WTC towers. Both scenarios require an acceptance that their government would willingly involve itself in the murder of American citizens. Both scenarios involve the opening of flood gates that cannot be closed afterwards.

Conclusion

The idea that no 757-sized airliner crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11/01 is attractive to many skeptics because it contradicts a fundamental tenet of the official story, is supported by common-sense interpretations of photographs of the crash scene, and provides an explanation for the suspicious lack of physical evidence supporting the official account. Additionally, there is a substantial body of literature by no-757-crash theorists that appears to thoroughly examine the evidence. The complexity of some of this analysis may discourage other skeptics from evaluating the evidence for themselves.

As I show in this essay, many common errors in no-757-crash theories are easily exposed. Most of the no-757-crash arguments evaporate when scrutinized with attention to empirical data about the behavior of airframes in high-speed crashes, and the geometry of the Pentagon crash scene and vantage points of post-crash photographs. The remaining arguments are easily disposed of by assuming the crash was engineered, consistent with the presumed motives of the perpetrators to discredit the skeptics. Conversely, the abundant eyewitness accounts provide strong evidence for the crash of a 757 or similar aircraft.

In recent high-profile attacks on the work of 9/11 skeptics, defenders of the official story have consistently focused on the no-757-crash theory as indicative of the gullibility and incompetence of the 9/11 "conspiracy theorists." Researchers including myself have contributed to this vulnerability by endorsing this theory without either weighing all the available evidence (such as the eyewitness accounts) or considering less obvious interpretations for the paucity of physical evidence of a 757 crash. The Pentagon crash is an intriguing area of research because of its many unresolved mysteries. The promotion of theories about what hit the Pentagon in highly visible media do not advance that research but instead provide our detractors with ammunition with which to discredit us, and eclipse easily established and highly incriminating facts such as where the Pentagon was hit, the astounding failures to defend the 9/11 targets, and the obvious controlled demolition of Building 7.

The evidence that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon remains the strongest aspect of the 9/11 conspiracy argument. There is little or no doubt that both Flight 11 and Flight 175 hit the WTC. Government officials have already presented the plausible lie that WTC 7 was so badly damaged that they had to "pull it". Government and military commanders can and have presented the plausible lie that there was simply a catastrophic failure of intelligence and communication that lead to the events of 9/11 and the failure to protect America from the "terrorists". All of these arguments can be presented by real live people to an audience that is only too willing to believe the official story, and that their leaders don't lie and that they have nothing to fear from the people that are entrusted with their welfare. The crucial point about the Pentagon attack is that missing planes cannot talk and no one can stand up and explain away a missing plane.

Despite Hoffman's claim to being an honest 9/11 researcher and his apparent interest in getting to the "real truth" of 9/11, we see that the final result of his efforts is to lead people away from the idea that a Boeing 757 did not hit the Pentagon. We are under no illusions about the manipulative skills of CoIntelPro. After all, they have had many decades of real time experience to learn the intricacies of how best to deceive the public. Having spent considerable time and resources in researching the matter, we have become convinced that, regardless of appearances, the agenda of CoIntelPro is ultimately always served. As such, we can only conclude that the success of the efforts to divert attention away from investigation of the "missing Boeing" is serving the agenda of The Powers That Be.

It is truly interesting that since our Pentagon Strike video was released in September 2004, several high profile 9/11 researchers have mounted a campaign to convince their "comrades" that we should all reject the "no Boeing at the Pentagon" argument. We have already commented on people such as Mike Ruppert and Daniel Hopsicker who form the backbone of this movement, despite their infighting. Now Hoffman has joined their ranks. Who will be next, we wonder? The entire operation stinks of "damage control", and damage control is only conducted because damage has been done.

In fact, we shall take it as a compliment that our work has provoked such a strong reaction from those who use lies and manipulation to control the masses and allow it to motivate us to redouble our efforts to expose the truth for all those who seek it.

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« Reply #121 on: March 12, 2008, 01:34:27 pm »

 
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Jim Hoffman's Pentagon Put-on
by Victor Thorn
After reading Jim Hoffman’s flip-flop article on whether or not a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon on the morning of 9-11, I realized that this sly old prankster had pulled an elaborate reverse-psychology practical joke on all of us. Yes, you heard me correctly. And even though I won’t divulge his reasons for doing so until the end of this review, I knew my hunch was correct after being struck by not only his sudden lack of sound reasoning skills, but also his inflated concern with the views of debunkers and the mainstream media. Hoffman even went so far as to say that those who defend the “official version” of 9-11 may use the no-757-crash theory to mock truth-seekers as a whole. But aren’t such attacks expected from the disinformation crowd? That’s what they do --- it’s their modus operandi. In fact, I’ve always felt that when these individuals DO target a specific “conspiracy theory,” it’s precisely done so because the people and groups being attacked are getting too close to the truth. Thus, to pattern our behavior in accordance with their opinions is foolish at best; and downright absurd at worst.


 
One aspect of Hoffman’s “false deconstruction put-on” that drips with irony is this: even though he now contends that a 757 actually did hit the Pentagon, he still presents much more evidence to the contrary that Flight 77 never did crash into this facility. I’m not sure if including this material was an unconscious reaction to his earlier research, but it certainly outweighed and overshadowed his counter-arguments, thus lending credence to the fact that he really isn’t convinced of his newfound stance.

Hoffman also fails to sway us when the subject of “eyewitness” testimony is broached. Not only have Richard Stanley and Jerry Russell “shredded every eyewitness on multiple accounts” (“the eyewitness testimony varies from bad to provably false”), but Professor A.K. Dewdney stated unequivocally on WING TV (November 17, 2004) that in a case such as this, physical scientific evidence far outweighs the unreliability and contradictory nature of eyewitness testimony.

Another argument that Hoffman puts forth to seemingly disprove the no-Boeing 757 theory is one which absolutely holds no water; specifically, he dislikes two particular videos: 9/11 Pentagon Strike and 911 In Plane Site. But to cite an article, book, or video that one deems faulty is not reason enough to logically dismiss an entire phenomenon. Look at it this way: suppose somebody made a documentary contending that 2+2 does not equal 4. Then somebody else watched this video and deduced: since this video about 2+2=4 is inaccurate, that must mean that 2+2 actually doesn’t equal four. It’s faulty logic, and should not have even been included in this article.

Continuing his spoof, Hoffman confronts the issue of whether a Boeing 757 was capable of performing the highly complex Top Gun maneuvers that were credited to it that fateful morning (while at the same time failing to mention how Hani Hanjour has been 100% discredited as the supposed pilot of this craft). Anyway, Hoffman states, “The spiral dive attack maneuver was well within the capabilities of a Boeing 757.” Contradicting this supposition, though, is Air Force and commercial pilot Russ Wittenberg, who argued quite convincingly (WING TV, September 16, 2004) that there was no possibility that this jetliner could have descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon’s first floor wall without touching the lawn. It’s impossible, and I’ll take Wittenberg’s word over Hoffman’s, for during his career he flew the exact same airliners that were purportedly hijacked on the morning of September 11th. If anybody would know, this man would.

The next area of contention that shows how Hoffman is pulling our leg is his approach to the lack of debris outside (and inside) the Pentagon immediately following this “event” (or was it actually a “staged magic show”). Now Hoffman should know better because I’ve researched airliner crashes and found numerous examples of the wreckage which results from a downed jumbo jetliner. It’s incredibly vast and messy and obvious, with deep skid marks in the ground; plus parts, wings, seats, wheels, aviation equipment, luggage, bodies, and God knows what else strewn in every direction. Where is this corresponding wreckage from an 80-100 ton aircraft at the Pentagon? It doesn’t exist, and volumes of un-confiscated photos are in existence to prove it. For crying out loud, Jim, look at this evidence because the pieces of the puzzle that you’ve laid on the table don’t fit together.

But the most absurd element of Hoffman’s thesis (even more so than his conjecture-filled arguments concerning the large spools sitting in front of the Pentagon) was his reference to French researcher Eric Bart’s explanation for the lack of imprints on the Pentagon’s façade which would be consistent with a Boeing 757. According to Bart, this plane conveniently had bombs strapped to it which (yet again) conveniently exploded when Flight 77 began its impact with the wall. That’s why it was instantly transformed to confetti. Of course this version of events contradicts the military’s first explanation, which concluded that the plane in question was “vaporized” into thin air (while human flesh, trees, and books in the immediate vicinity weren’t vaporized).

What most troubles me about Hoffman’s line of reasoning is that he says most people can’t handle the no-757 argument; then he turns around and lays-out a tale so ludicrous that it’s laughable. But hold on, folks, for there’s more --- he concludes that, according to Eric Bart, “the crash of a 757 was engineered to make it appear that no such plane had crashed.” Say what? Do these men want us to believe that the government DID crash a 757 into the Pentagon; then deliberately made it appear as if one hadn’t crashed there (a “complex reverse deception” as Richard Stanley calls it)? This reasoning is akin to Alice falling down the rabbit hole in Wonderland.

Lastly, Hoffman proves once-and-for-all that he’s deliberately toying with us when he brings Left Gatekeepers such as Amy Goodman and Chip Berlet into the fray, along with a CIA agent, The Washington Post, and the New York Times. What does he expect these shysters to say? They’re disinformation specialists – and that’s what they do for a living – they debunk! But instead of trotting these bozos around the arena, why not introduce some real meat and potatoes evidence into this case? C’mon, Jim, you can come clean now and tell us that it’s all been a big joke.

In the end, Hoffman almost seems to be saying: just because the no-757-theory is a difficult pill for many people to swallow, we should dismiss it completely lest we “damage the entire 9-11 cause.” But in all honesty, it is reports such as this which do the most harm, for not only are his arguments disingenuous, they’re also flimsy and lightweight beyond words. I mean, since when should “how the issue plays” affect our desire for the truth? It shouldn’t, and in all honesty, when I first heard about this article, I thought, “Y’know, I’ve always respected Jim Hoffman’s work. Maybe he’s onto something that everyone else missed.” But upon reading his thesis very closely, I was supremely disappointed, for there was nothing there. Zero. A complete wash. So, my only hope at this point is that maybe Hoffman wanted to bring more attention to the Pentagon case, so he wrote a completely ridiculous piece that he knew everyone would trash, thus ultimately showing how strong the no-757 case really is. Isn’t it obvious what Hoffman’s motives are? He purposefully wrote the lamest debunking paper possible to prove the inherent flaws and weaknesses of the government’s “official” explanation. It was all an exercise in reverse-psychology … a grand charade which pretended to debunk the no-757-theory, but in reality debunked the debunkers! Well done, Jim, and it was all worth a good laugh – but hey, no more of these crafty masquerades, okay ---- you had us worried there for awhile!
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unto the GOD within THEE that is in the image of the God
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E.C.

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« Reply #122 on: March 13, 2008, 01:24:15 pm »

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Personal Attacks Against Jim Hoffman

Hundreds of people have written to 9-11 Research to thank us for creating the website. (See these excerpts from correspondence.) Many people thank us for our courage in exposing the crimes of 9/11/01, and some have expressed concern for our safety. However, in one of the many counter-intuitive aspects of the 9-11 investigation, failing to speak up about the crime may be a greater risk to one's health than proclaiming the bankruptcy of the official story, given the future we face if the attack continues to function as a pretext for the theft of civil liberties and maintenance of endless war.

Nonetheless, the creation of 9-11 Research has required great sacrifices. Aside from the cost in time and money, the effort has made us the target of a campaign of ugly personal attacks, aimed especially at Jim Hoffman -- the person most identified with the creation of 9-11 Research. These attacks have come, not primarily from people defending the official story -- though we have received our share of hate mail from that quarter -- but from a cluster of internet personas and individuals who present themselves as guardians of the whole truth of 9/11. The intimidation page on 911Review.com provides some insight into the reasons that ad hominem attacks are a preferred method of harassing researchers. Indeed, we would suspect we were failing in our goals if we were not targeted with such campaigns.

To get a sense of the effort being put into this campaign, try the following Google Searches:

"jim hoffman" spook 9/11
hoffman plagiarist holmgren

A fact that will be noticed by anyone bothering to read a sampling of the many attack pieces is that the attackers consistently promote the "no-planes" theories. Mark Robinowitz, author of "No Planes on 9/11" hoaxes and Eric Salter, author of A Critical Review of WTC "No Plane" Theories are often targeted in the same attacks.

A campaign of invective against Jim Hoffman started at about the time that 9-11 Research was launched and grew in a way that roughly parallelled the site's popularity. The campaign started out as a whispering campaign, and gradually became more public. This page traces some of the campaign's main actors and currents, and examines its principle methods.

Contents
911Review.org and Michael Elliot
Gerard Holmgren and "the WebFairy"
Serendipity.li and Peter Meyer
Rick Siegel and 911eyewitness.com
Ad Hominems, Nonsense, and Anti-Semitism

http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/adhominem.html#elliot

Serendipity.li and Peter Meyer
Serendipity.li listed Holmgren's three-punch series of ad hominem attacks on its prominent page "Relevant Pages on Other Websites" ( http://www.serendipity.li/wtc_other_sites.htm ), until January 25, 2005.


Joe Quinn: Jim Hoffman's Booby Trap For 9/11 Truth Seekers
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/hoffman_rebuttal.htm Gerard Holmgren responds to Jim Hoffman's article (referenced below) in several posts:
Hoffman the Plagiarist
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/320469.shtml?discuss#186867
Hoffman the Spook
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/320469.shtml?discuss#186880
How Hoffman distorts evidence
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/320469.shtml?discuss#186929


[ 12-26-2006, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Illuminati ]
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« Reply #123 on: March 13, 2008, 01:25:11 pm »

 
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Reply to Popular
Mechanics re 9/11
by Peter Meyer





This article, by way of rebuttal of the deceptive straw-man tactics of Popular Mechanics, examines the arguments in support of the official story of the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (which is itself a conspiracy theory), and concludes that there is no evidence to support it, and that it cannot be true. This was also the conclusion reached in the author's earlier major article on this subject, The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism. Read, think about it, and decide for yourself. Don't allow yourself to be deceived by the trolls in the online forums and on Wikipedia.


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Some magazine by the name of Popular Mechanics recently came out with an issue in which the main story was called 9/11: Debunking The Myths: "PM examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11." Really? Upon examination it turns out to be a shoddy piece of disinfo produced in a desperate attempt to defend against the fact that Americans are finally waking up and realizing that 9/11 was an inside job, that about 3000 people died at the hands of elements within their own government.

When Popular Mechanics set out to "debunk the myths" surrounding the events of 9/11 they ignored the myth created and propagated by the US government itself.


One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11 ... is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. ...

These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand-down of the US Air Force, the insider trading on airline stocks — linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.

— Gerard Holmgren: Debunking Conspiracy Theorists

Popular Mechanics presented sixteen "Claims", which it attributed to 9/11 "conspiracy theorists", and to each one added its "Fact", which it intended to be a debunking of the "Claim". These "Claims" and "Facts" are reproduced verbatim in the boxes below, followed by a reply to Popular Mechanics' "debunking". The section headings are the titles used by Popular Mechanics, and the order of the sixteen items follows their order in the magazine.

It is not the intention of this article to defend all of the "Claims" given by Popular Mechanics. Some of them may in fact be ludicrous. This is the "straw man" tactic, where an intellectually dishonest proponent sets up some ridiculous claim, which he attributes to "conspiracy theorists", and then proceeds to knock it down. This tactic is well-known to intelligent people, though apparently Popular Mechanics does not regard its readership as belonging to that class.

When thinking about the attacks on the World Trade Center one should keep in mind the layout of the complex. Here is a diagram showing WTC 1 (the North Tower), WTC 2 (the South Tower) and WTC 7, and the impact points.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
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« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2008, 01:26:12 pm »

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Where's The Pod?

CLAIM: Photographs and video footage shot just before United Airlines Flight 175 hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC) show an object underneath the fuselage at the base of the right wing. The film "911 In Plane Site" and the Web site LetsRoll911.org claim that no such object is found on a stock Boeing 767. They speculate that this "military pod" is a missile, a bomb or a piece of equipment on an air-refueling tanker. LetsRoll911.org points to this as evidence that the attacks were an "inside job" sanctioned by "President George Bush, who planned and engineered 9/11."

FACT: One of the clearest, most widely seen pictures of the doomed jet's undercarriage was taken by photographer Rob Howard and published in New York magazine and elsewhere (opening page and at right). PM sent a digital scan of the original photo to Ronald Greeley, director of the Space Photography Laboratory at Arizona State University. Greeley is an expert at analyzing images to determine the shape and features of geological formations based on shadow and light effects. After studying the high-resolution image and comparing it to photos of a Boeing 767-200ER's undercarriage, Greeley dismissed the notion that the Howard photo reveals a "pod." In fact, the photo reveals only the Boeing's right fairing, a pronounced bulge that contains the landing gear. He concludes that sunlight glinting off the fairing gave it an exaggerated look. "Such a glint causes a blossoming (enlargement) on film," he writes in an e-mail to PM, "which tends to be amplified in digital versions of images--the pixels are saturated and tend to 'spill over' to adjacent pixels." When asked about pods attached to civilian aircraft, Fred E. Culick, professor of aeronautics at the California Institute of Technology, gave a blunter response: "That's bull. They're really stretching."
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This website was the first to draw attention to the anomaly revealed in photos of the alleged Boeing 757 flying into the South Tower. This was done in Leonard Spencer's article The Incredible 9-11 Evidence We've All been Overlooking, in early November 2002, when 9/11 research was still at a comparatively early stage. (This anomaly was subsequently picked up by others and became the main emphasis of websites such as LetsRoll911.org.) Spencer drew attention to the anomaly, clearly visible in videos and images, as in the image at right (click on it to see it fullsize).

Spencer suggested that the anomaly might be an ignition device which was designed to ensure that the inflammable material (either within the plane or previously planted at that level in the South Tower) would explode in the huge fireball that was captured by so many cameras and resulted in worldwide "shock and awe". This hypothesis is not unreasonable. At no time did Spencer claim (though some others may have) that 9/11 was an inside job sanctioned by "President George Bush, who planned and engineered 9/11", since clearly Bush is too stupid to have planned and engineered such an operation.

Popular Mechanics ignored the image above. Instead it chose an image precisely because the anomaly is not visible (and they combine this choice with the lie that "Conspiracy theorists claim this photo 'proves' the 9/11 attacks were a U.S. military operation"). Having chosen an image in which the plane is just a black silhouette against the sky they then sent this image to some "expert", who reported that no anomaly was visible. Gee — we're impressed!

Actually the question of whether or not some anomalous object is attached to this alleged Boeing 767 is interesting but an affirmative answer is not necessary to show that 9/11 was an inside job. It is a well-known tactic of disinfo artists to draw attention to controversial issues (and to create endless debate about them) so as to distract attention from the real smoking guns.
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« Reply #125 on: March 13, 2008, 01:28:27 pm »

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No Stand-Down Order

CLAIM: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.
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Popular Mechanics cites no sources for its assertions (except a list of people at the end of the article who are claimed to be "experts"). We are expected simply to believe what the magazine says, just as the Bush administration believed (correctly, as it turned out) that almost everyone (in the US at least) would simply believe what it said about what happened on 9/11. Fortunately some people, even from day 1, did not believe what it said, and set out to show that it was lying (and why it was lying).

But if we believe Popular Mechanics' "Fact" it points to an amazing degree of laxity and incompetence on the part of NORAD, whose mission is not just (as Poplular Mechanics suggests) to monitor the airspace surrounding the US but to ensure the security of all US airspace. At the website of the Homeland Security/Defense Education Consortium (http://www.hsdec.org/charter.aspx), a front organization for NORAD/USNORTHCOM, we read (emphasis added):

North American Aerospace Defense Command and United States Northern Command Mission Statements
NORAD Mission Statement

NORAD continuously provides worldwide detection, validation and warning of an aerospace attack on North America and maintains continental aerospace control, to include peacetime air sovereignty alert and appropriate aerospace defense measures in response to hostile actions against North America

USNORTHCOM Mission Statement

United States Northern Command conducts operations to deter, prevent and defeat threats and aggression aimed at the United States, its territories and interests within assigned areas of responsibility; as directed by the President or Secretary of Defense, provides military assistance to civil authorities, including consequence management operations


But incompetence is what the Bush administration can live with, since this accusation deflects attention from the much more serious accusation that elements within the US government (perhaps going back before the usurper Bush came to power in 2001) were involved in the planning and execution of the 9/11 attacks. (See Cheryl Seal's Smoking Gun The 9/11 Evidence that May Hang George W. Bush.)

In fact, of course, the US Air Force has (and had) well-defined procedures for dealing with such suspicious events in the skies over the US (that's part of what they are paid to do), in particular, with suspected hijackings. The procedures were stated in DoD Directive Number 3025.15 (local copy here), dated 1997-02-18, with the title "Military Assistance to Civil Authorities". This document includes the following:


4.7. Requests for military assistance should be made and approved in the following ways:
4.7.1. Immediate Response. Requests for an immediate response (i.e., any form of immediate action taken by a DoD Component or military commander to save lives, prevent human suffering, or mitigate great property damage under imminently serious conditions) may be made to any Component or Command. The DoD Components that receive verbal requests from civil authorities for support in an exigent emergency may initiate informal planning and, if required, immediately respond as authorized in DoD Directive 3025.1 (reference (g)).

In other words, in response to a request for assistance from a civil authority, such as the FAA, that "component" of the military to which the request is directed may respond immediately with appropriate action, such as scrambling a jet fighter (or diverting one already in the air) for the purpose of interception.

This directive was to some extent superseded by an Instruction (document CJCSI 3610.01A, local copy here) from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, dated 2001-06-01, with the title "Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) and Destruction of Derelict Airborne Objects" (such as unmanned free balloons, etc.). According to this, only the FAA can request military assistance in the event of a hijacking, and they must notify the National Military Command Center (NMCC), which must, in most cases, obtain the approval of the Secretary of Defense.

This document has been used as the basis for the claim that the military could not have shot down any hijacked airliner on 9/11 because prior approval was required from the Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld), who, on the morning of 9/11, was nowhere to be found.


Jim Hoffman has discovered a document which I believe may be very important to the 911 skeptic movement. This document superseded earlier DOD procedures for dealing with hijacked aircraft, and it requires that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is personally responsible for issuing intercept orders. Commanders in the field are stripped of all authority to act. — Jerry Russell, 'Stand Down Order'?
This claim is false.

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« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2008, 01:28:58 pm »

In an article posted under the pseudonym "D. Rumsfeld" and entitled Criminal Mastermind: Donald Rumsfeld (an article reproduced almost entirely by Jim Hoffman on his 911review.com website) we read:


There is a set of procedures for responding to hijackings. In particular, these procedures were changed on June 1, 2001 while Rumsfeld was in power as our Secretary of Defense, in a document called: "CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF INSTRUCTION, J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A" (http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf)
"AIRCRAFT PIRACY (HIJACKING) AND DESTRUCTION OF DERELICT AIRBORNE OBJECTS"

These are the standing orders to the military as to how to respond to hijackings over United States territory. The June 1 '01 document deliberately changed the existing policies. Previous directives were issued in 1997, 1986 and before.

What is shocking about this entire sordid episode is the total disconnect between what Donald Rumsfeld's story alleges (ignorance of inbound hijacked aircraft), and what these Chief of Staff Instructions require of the Secretary of Defense:

"b. Support.
When notified that military assistance is needed in conjunction with an aircraft piracy (hijacking) emergency, the DDO, NMCC, will:

(1) Determine whether or not the assistance needed is reasonably available from police or commercial sources. If not, the DDO, NMCC, will notify the appropriate unified command or NORAD to determine if suitable assets are available and will forward the request to the Secretary of Defense for approval in accordance with DODD 3025.15, paragraph D.7 (reference d)."

"APPROVAL"

The usage of the word "approval" is the major change here to the existing hijacking response procedures. While the text of the document tries to link this "approval" to the previous orders "DODD 3025.15," the approval is now required BEFORE providing any assistance at all. Previously, approval would be required to respond to a situation with lethal force.

This June 1st update to the orders stopped all military assistance in its tracks UNTIL approval from Donald Rumsfeld (the "Secretary of Defense") could be granted -- which, by his own admission, it was not. Rumsfeld claimed total ignorance of the inbound aircraft that attacked the Pentagon (on the opposite side of the building complex, where a construction project had been underway).

In this manner, fighter planes were held up from immediately responding to the hijacked commercial jets on September the 11th.
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« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2008, 01:29:50 pm »

It is not true, as the writer here asserts, that "approval is now required BEFORE providing any assistance at all." DoD Directive Number 3610.01A states (emphasis added):


4. Policy
a. Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) of Civil and Military Aircraft. Pursuant to references a and b, the Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), has exclusive responsibility to direct law enforcement activity related to actual or attempted aircraft piracy (hijacking) in the "special aircraft jurisdiction" of the United States. When requested by the Administrator, Department of Defense will provide assistance to these law enforcement efforts. Pursuant to reference c, the NMCC is the focal point within Department of Defense for providing assistance. In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval.


When we check to see what "reference d" is we find that it is:

"Military Assistance to Civil Authorities"
In other words, whatever change the new directive introduces, the directive of 1997-02-18 still applies in the case of the need for an immediate response in order "to save lives, prevent human suffering, or mitigate great property damage under imminently serious conditions". In such a case it is not required before initiating military action to obtain the prior approval of the Secretary of Defense.

This is an example of the kind of subtle disinfo which so often muddies the waters in 9/11 research. An interesting claim is made which (a) seems to explain something (in this case, the 9/11 stand-down) and (b) suggests that a particularly obnoxious government official (in this case Donald Rumsfeld) is implicated in some crime. Naturally many people will be inclined believe the claim. But if the claim is seriously investigated it turns out to be based on a mistaken (deliberately mistaken?) interpretation of some evidence (in this case the Directive of 2001-06-01).

For more on the 9/11 stand-down see 9/11 Review's AirForceStanddown.
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« Reply #128 on: March 13, 2008, 01:30:12 pm »

quote:
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Flight 175's Windows
CLAIM: On Sept. 11, FOX News broadcast a live phone interview with FOX employee Marc Birnbach. 911inplanesite.com states that "Bernback" saw the plane "crash into the South Tower." "It definitely did not look like a commercial plane," Birnbach said on air. "I didn't see any windows on the sides."

Coupled with photographs and videos of Flight 175 that lack the resolution to show windows, Birnbach's statement has fueled one of the most widely referenced 9/11 conspiracy theories--specifically, that the South Tower was struck by a military cargo plane or a fuel tanker.

FACT: Birnbach, who was a freelance videographer with FOX News at the time, tells PM that he was more than 2 miles southeast of the WTC, in Brooklyn, when he briefly saw a plane fly over. He says that, in fact, he did not see the plane strike the South Tower; he says he only heard the explosion.

While heading a Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) probe into the collapse of the towers, W. Gene Corley studied the airplane wreckage. A licensed structural engineer with Construction Technology Laboratories, a consulting firm based in Skokie, Ill., Corley and his team photographed aircraft debris on the roof of WTC 5, including a chunk of fuselage that clearly had passenger windows. "It's ... from the United Airlines plane that hit Tower 2," Corley states flatly. In reviewing crash footage taken by an ABC news crew, Corley was able to track the trajectory of the fragments he studied--including a section of the landing gear and part of an engine--as they tore through the South Tower, exited from the building's north side and fell from the sky.
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This website, at least, has never made the claim that "the South Tower was struck by a military cargo plane or a fuel tanker." Perhaps this claim appears on some 9/11 website — quite likely, since there are thousands of them, and not all their webmasters are careful to make only claims which can be supported by evidence. But, as stated above, the determination of the exact nature of the objects which struck the Twin Towers, although of interest, is not required in order to show that 9/11 was an inside job. In fact, the loud debate as to what hit the Twin Towers distracts attention from the really incriminating evidence. One can adduce evidence and arguments in favor of various hypotheses (Boeing 767s, Boeing 737s, military aircraft such as the KC-767 fuel tanker, cruise missiles, cruise missiles with jetliner-superstructure, cruise missiles with on-board holographic projectors, etc.), but this debate has, at present, no chance of resolution, because there is insufficient evidence to come to a firm conclusion. It serves only to demonstrate the reasoning powers (or lack thereof) of the participants and to aid disinfo artists in their attempts to distract attention from the evidence that the official story is a lie.

The role of FEMA in the 9/11 investigation raises many questions. Tom Kenny was a member of the Massachusetts Urban Search and Rescue Task Force, which took orders from FEMA. In an interview on September 12th (Wednesday) with Dan Rather on CBS, Tom Kenny said "We arrived on, uh, late Monday night and went into action on Tuesday morning; and not until today did we get a full opportunity to work, uh, the entire site." Since Kenny's team arrived on Monday evening and the WTC was attacked on Tuesday morning it would seem that FEMA had prior knowledge of the impending attack.

FEMA's report on the collapse of the Twin Towers (http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtcreport.htm) is full of holes, as demonstrated in this annotated version of Chapter 2 from the report (a good internet connection is needed to view this in full).

Leonard Spencer has shown that one of the photos which appears in this FEMA report is a fake.

As regards the point about "the trajectory of the fragments ... as they tore through the South Tower, exited from the building's north side and fell from the sky", producing "aircraft debris", it is interesting to examine the actual video evidence of that event. Leonard Spencer has done this and after considering the evidence writes:


I would suggest that the object that emerged from the NE corner of the South Tower was in fact a canister containing items of appropriate 'debris', which was propelled from the building to lend credence to the notion that a regular passenger jet hit WTC 2. And if this canister did not originate from the plane we must conclude that it was already planted in the corner section of the tower before the attack, to be fired out at the requisite moment. That it was a pre-planted device is strongly suggested both by its pristine condition when it emerges and its exit from the exact corner of the building. — What Hit WTC2? Another Look at the Second Plane


quote:
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Intercepts Not Routine
CLAIM: "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."

FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
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In an Associated Press article a NORAD spokesman, Maj. Douglas Martin, is reported as saying that from September 2000 to June 2001 (just ten months) NORAD scrambled jets (or diverted combat air patrols) 67 times to investigate aircraft going off-course or other suspicious events, and presumably many of these resulted in intercepts.

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« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2008, 01:31:06 pm »

Apart from the general question of normal procedures for the detection of hijacked and/or threatening aircraft over the continental US (discussed in the reply to Claim #2 above) there is the specific question of normal procedures for the defense of the airspace surrounding the WTC complex. On this point we have the evidence of someone who was a tenant in one of the buildings, and who states that not only was interception routine but also that the airspace surrounding the Twin Towers was a no-fly zone. In an email message to John Kaminski (cc'd to a mailing list) sent in November 2003 Walter Burien wrote:


John:
I was a tenant at WTC1 in 1979-81.

The only concern anyone had 20 years ago was a hijacked plane being flown into the towers.

Here is the "Key" to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary.

Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years. Back in the late seventies the NY Post ran an article about the Port Authority bragging how their manned 24/7 response helicopter would be in the air within 4 minutes of an alert call going out per possible air threat to the WTC towers.

There is [only] one occasion that I am aware of, or in most probabilities that any one else is aware of, in this exemplary record of response to air threats covering a period of over twenty years that the intercepts did not launch and were told to stand down, after going on high alert within a minute or two of the threat, not from just one threat but then two. That date was 9/11/01.

This in itself is the most condemning fact of them all when that 20 year record is brought to light. The motive then becomes crystal clear in review of that exemplary response record to threats from the air against the WTC towers.

No off course or negligent air craft came close. They were always intercepted and told to change their course or they would be blown out of the sky. It was a no fly zone and this happened to many pilots that intentionally or unintentionally flew too close to the WTC towers over those 20 years.


quote:
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Widespread Damage


CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Popular Mechanics' "Fact" tries to arouse horror in the reader at the thought of people in the lobbies being burned by flaming jet fuel, but the only "factual" claim here is that (a) the elevator shafts were damaged and (b) burning jet fuel "travelled" down them and caused damage to the lobbies and killed people. We already know that people died, close to 3000 of them, in an act of mass murder, with those who perpetrated this remaining unidentified (the perps were certainly not the 19 Arabs whom the FBI tried to pin the blame on).

We are asked to believe that the jet fuel remained liquid, "traveling down the elevator shafts". But jet fuel (kerosene) combined with air is, at high temperature, highly combustible, as Popular Mechanics' "Fact" says. The impacts were accompanied by huge explosions, which produced high temperatures. But somehow the jet fuel did not ignite, but remained liquid so as to flow down the elevator shafts? Really?

Popular Mechanics states in its "Claim" that "EXPLOSIVES ... HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash" but in its reply it completely ignores the question of whether the collapse of the Twin Towers is better explained by explosives than by the plane impacts and fires. This question is addressed in detail in Evidence for Explosives in the Twin Towers.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2008, 01:32:26 pm »

Illuminati

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   posted 12-26-2006 02:34 AM                       
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quote:
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Big Plane, Small Holes

CLAIM: Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."



The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile--part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Landing gear has a very irregular shape. Hardly the sort of object to have punched a nice circular hole while exiting Ring C. Remember that this is an exit hole in the C-Ring, implying that (assuming that the object entered the Pentagon from outside) it had to pass through Rings E, D and C before producing the exit hole. Such a hole is unlikely to have been made by landing gear, but might well have been made by a missile travelling at high speed.

The Report by ASCE (the American Society of Civil Engineers), issued in January 2003, and including among its six authors (two of whom were among the authors of a report on the Oklahoma City Bombing) a US Army engineer and a "fire protection engineer" from BATF (of Waco infamy), is available here (it's a 2,477 Kb PDF file). The word "missile" does not occur in it, so it seems the authors never even considered this as a possible explanation for "the tidy hole in Ring C", apparently (as one gathers from Popular Mechanics) restricting themselves to a choice between landing gear and fuselage. But in fact the Report does not say (as Popular Mechanics says it does) that the hole in the C-Ring "was made by the jet's landing gear".

One has to wonder whether the editors of Popular Mechanics invented the claim that ASCE concluded that the hole was made by the jet's landing gear. They did not obtain this from the Report. In fact, had the editors of Popular Mechanics downloaded the Report and searched for the term "landing gear" they would have found that it is nowhere used in connection with the hole in the C-Ring. On what basis, then, did they make their claim?

It is interesting to note that the ASCE Report comes with a disclaimer (on page 4): "asce makes no representation or warranty of any kind, whether express or implied, concerning the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or utility of any information, apparatus, product, or process discussed in this publication, and assumes no liability therefore." The authors appear to be saying: Here is our report but we don't vouch for the accuracy of what it says.
 
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« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2008, 01:34:01 pm »



It is curious that Popular Mechanics chose to draw attention to this Report, because it has been completely discredited in an article by by Sami Yli-Karjanmaa (published in September 2004) entitled The ASCE's Pentagon Building Performance Report: Arrogant Deception — Or an Attempt to Expose a Cover-up?. The abstract of this article is available on this website here.

The author notes that, apart from a short description, there is not a word in the Report about the hole in the C-Ring (contrary to what Popular Mechanics would have us believe), and he goes on to say:


Why would a Pentagon building performance report be silent on the cause of this "failure?" One could imagine the hole to be claimed caused by an engine, but as a matter of fact there is no mention in the report on what happened to the aircraft's engines inside the building. On the spot, it must of course have been visible what had emerged from the hole. Why are there no photographs depicting this (round) object? Why is the official story silent about the matter? A natural explanation is that the truth is not told because it cannot be told.


quote:
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Intact Windows

CLAIM: Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.

FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.

"A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."
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« Reply #132 on: March 17, 2008, 01:26:26 pm »



Here's a picture of the entry hole with windows "just above the point of impact" which are intact. You can see that they are unbroken because you can see the foam sprayed on them by the firemen:
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« Reply #133 on: March 17, 2008, 01:27:09 pm »



And here's a simulation of a Boeing 757 flying into the Pentagon.
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« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2008, 01:28:56 pm »



While it is true that the Pentagon's windows were designed to resist the effects of blast waves, they were not designed to remain unbroken when physical objects passed through them. It is absurd to suggest that the debris from a 757 supposedly travelling at hundreds of miles per hour would bounce off the windows of the Pentagon, leaving them intact for firefighters to spray foam on them. But intact windows there were, so there was no 757.


quote:
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Flight 77 Debris

CLAIM: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
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The picture displayed by Popular Mechanics, which it labels "Wreckage from Flight 77 on the Pentagon's lawn — proof that a passenger plane, not a missile, hit the building", is simply ludicrous. It is obviously a plant. The alleged Boeing 757 was supposed to have been vaporized in a fiery explosion and this thing has not a single scorch mark on it. In contrast, the picture at right shows what real plane crash wreckage looks like.
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