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the A.R.E.'s Investigations into the Atlantic

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Author Topic: the A.R.E.'s Investigations into the Atlantic  (Read 12055 times)
Desiree
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« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2007, 12:33:22 am »

Doc: Regarding the dates, reading 262-39 is a good example: "the date BC of this gathering was 50,722." (This refers to just before the first destruction.) Reading 470-22: "...Atlantis when there was the second period of disturbance—which would be some twenty-two thousand, five-hundred [22,500] before the Egyptian activity covered by the Exodus; or it was some 28,000 before Christ, see?" The final destruction in Reading 5750-1: From time as counted in the present we would turn back to 10,600 years before the Prince of Peace came into the land of promise..."

There are other readings with these dates and it's true that Cayce used the term "light years" once, but the dates formally accepted by the A.R.E. are 50,000, 28,000, and around 10,000 BC.

I know that we have confirmed the prseence of harbors at Bimini, Andros, and probably Cay Sal, although more needs to be done at all three sites. Yet it's not possible to say precisely who built the harborworks and when. It may be related to Phoenician, but it would be very early for them--assuming they came from the Mediterranean area to the Bahamas area.

Best wishes,
Greg
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2007, 12:34:30 am »

I thought it might be worthwhile to take a look at some of the Cayce readings:


quote:
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READING: 364-12
The buildings were much in that of tiers - one upon the another, save principally in the temples. The temples were about the sacred fires where those sacrifices that were gradually builded by the people in their attempt to appease those forces in nature, were offered. In these temples, we find these of large or semi-circular columns of onyx, topaz, and inlaid with beryl, amethyst, and stones that made the variations in catching the rays of the sun. Hence a portion of same became as the sun worshippers in other portions, from which there were an egress of the peoples.
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No buildings have been found yet, but the Andros Platform is said to have three tiers.


quote:
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READING: 364-3
The position as the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other. There are some protruding portions within this that must have at one time or another been a portion of this great continent. The British West Indies or the Bahamas, and a portion of same that may be seen in the present - if the geological survey would be made in some of these - especially, or notably, in Bimini and in the Gulf Stream through this vicinity, these may be even yet determined.
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Well, according to this one, Cayce does mean a huge continent, but maybe he meant to say something else besides continent?

I'm thinking he meant, "empire."


quote:
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READING: 364-4
In the first (earliest), or greater portion of Atlantis, we find that NOW known as the southern portions of South America and the Arctic or North Arctic regions, while those in what is NOW as Siberia - or that as of Hudson Bay - was rather in that region of the tropics, or that position now occupied by near what would be as the same LINE would run, of the southern Pacific, or central Pacific regions - and about the same way.
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Sounds like a pole shift!


quote:
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READING: 364-6
Atlantis was the size in comparison, that of Europe including Asia in Europe -not Asia, but Asia in Europe - (Probably Europe and Russia). This composed, as seen, in or after the first of the destructions, that which would be termed now - with the present position - the southernmost portion of same - islands as created by those of the first (as man would call) volcanic or eruptive forces brought into play in the destruction of same.
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Volcanic activity both created and destroyed Atlantis, perfectly fitting the Alantic Ocean which has been know to spit up and swallow islands in relatively short periods of time.


quote:
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READING: 440-5
The records of the manners of construction of the firestone are in three places in the earth, as it stands today: In the sunken portions of Atlantis, or Poseidia, where a portion of the temples may yet be discovered, under the slime of ages of sea water - near what is known as Bimini, off the coast of Florida. And in the temple records that were in Egypt, where the entity later acted in cooperation with others in preserving the records that came from the land where these had been kept. Also the records that were carried to what is now Yucatan in America, where these stones (that they know so little about) are now - during the last few months - BEING uncovered. In Yucatan there is the emblem of same. Let's clarify this, for it may be the more easily found - for they will be brought to this America, these United States. A portion is to be carried, as we find, to the Pennsylvania State Museum. A portion is to be carried to the Washington preservations of such findings, or to Chicago. The stones that are set in the front of the temple, between the service temple and the outer court temple - or the priest activity, for later there arose (which may give a better idea of what is meant) the activities of the Hebrews from this -in the altar that stood before the door of the tabernacle. This altar or stone, then, in Yucatan, stands between the activities of the priest (for, of course, this is degenerated from the original use and purpose, but is the nearest and closest one to being found).
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Are there any clues as to what Cayce meant by the Pennsylvania State Museum? Has anyone ever searched there for anything resembling Atlantean records?
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« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2007, 12:35:06 am »

EDGAR CAYCE ON THE MOUND BUILDERS


3004-1 14. Before this the entity was in the land of the present nativity, especially in that period of the Mound Builders - a little farther to the west; when there was the laying out of the plans for those interpretations that had been a consciousness in another organization or group to which the entity had previously belong or been a part.
15. There the entity was the priestess. And there may be seen some of those activities that are a part of the awareness to some in that land of Ohio, where there were those plans for such, in the mounds that were called the replica or representative of the Yucatan experiences, as well as the Atlantean and in Gobi land. All of these are as one consciousness in the entity's activity.
16. The entity then was the priestess that led in the worship of the purpose, the causes, as in the affixations of activities through a part of the sun worship.
364-4 We also find that entering into Og, or those peoples that later became the beginning of the Inca, or Ohum [Aymara'?], that builded the walls across the mountains in this period, through those same usages of that as had been taken on by those peoples; and with the same, those that made for that in the other land, became first those of the mound dwellers, or peoples in that land. With the continued disregard of those that were keeping the pure race and the pure peoples, of those that were to bring all these laws as applicable to the Sons of God, man brought in the destructive forces as used for the peoples that were to be the rule, that combined with those natural resources of the gases, of the electrical forces, made in nature and natural form the first of the eruptions that awoke from the depth of the slow cooling earth, and that portion now near what would be termed the Sargasso Sea first went into the depths.

With this there again came that egress of peoples that aided, or attempted to assume control, yet carrying with them ALL those forms of Amilius [?] that he gained through that as for signs, for seasons, for days, for years. Hence we find in those various portions of the world even in the present day, some form of that as WAS presented by those peoples in THAT great DEVELOPMENT in this, the Eden of the world.
583-3 10. In the one before this, we find in the name then Olse, and in the country near where the entity now sojourns [Chicago, Ill.], for the entity, then, as we see, came into this country from the descendants of the Norse peoples who first landed and settled the Northeastern coast of this country, during that time. The entity then of strong physical forces and giving much to the aid of the peoples in establishing the forts and the outposts of the peoples who joined later with that peoples in the country South of there, known as Mound Builders, see? The entity in this, we find, did not develop in the last of the sojourn, for the forces of might were used against the entity.
685-1 Hence those things pertaining to the active forces of the Indians, as were called in that land; the medicine man, the associations of the colors, the associations of trinkets, the associations of the various activities that had been handed down by the people from the mound worshipers that had come into that portion of the land.
1208-1 31. Hence throughout those periods the entity became then THAT ONE that led the first establishing of the activity in the varied lands that came to be known as later the Mayan, the Yucatan, the Inca, the Peruvian - and LATER the Mound Builders in the northern portions of the entity's present sojourn. [Ohio?]
28. They were portions of the entity's people then, in that part of the land now known as the central portion of Ohio, during the early portion of the Mound Builders.
1298-1 20. Before this (among those appearances that have an influence in the present) we find the entity was in the land of its present nativity, in what is now known as the southernmost portion - or in Florida; during those periods when there were those settlings from the Yucatan, from the lands of On (?) or the Inca, from the Norse land, when there were the beginners of the Mound Builders and those that gathered upon what is now the east portion of Alabama and Florida - though it was quite different then in its structure, outwardly.
21. (Q) Have the most important temples and pyramids been discovered?
(A) Those of the first civilization have been discovered, and have not all been opened; but their associations, their connections, are being replaced - or attempting to be rebuilt. Many of the second and third civilization may NEVER be discovered, for these would destroy the present civilization in Mexico to uncover same!


http://all-ez.com/mounds.htm
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« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2007, 12:35:39 am »

quote:
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* In the early 1970s, a team (SEAS ­ Scientific Exploration and Archaeology Society) led by geologist John Gifford discovered another site called “Proctor’s Road” consisting of clumps of stone at intervals running in a straight line for a mile.
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Greg, we didn't talk about this one yet. Related to either Bimini or Andros, or a third site..?


quote:
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* In 1977, the marble “head” was raised and a coring of the rocks was made. The results of the coring were inconclusive. The head may—or may not—have been a carving.
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http://edgarcayce.org/am/biminiexpedition.html

Any pictures of the head..?
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« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2007, 12:36:24 am »

I can't speak much about the "pole shift" in the Cayce readings. It remains a mystery of sorts.

"No buildings have been found yet, but the Andros Platform is said to have three tiers. "

The Andros Platform does, indeed, have three tiers, but it was a breakwater, not a building. The three tiers get higher toward the deeper water. The bottom tier is in about 12-15 feet of water, the top tier in about 8 feet...depending on tides. Each tier is 2-feet thick.

"Are there any clues as to what Cayce meant by the Pennsylvania State Museum? Has anyone ever searched there for anything resembling Atlantean records? "

In the book, "The Lost Hall of Records," by John Van Auken and my wife Lora, Lora wrote a chapter about our search for the museum records. To some extent, the confusion was created by the questions Cayce was asked. After searching several places in Harrisburg, we eventually went to Philadelphia. We found it amazing how little was actually known by some of the museum people, but one person, a long-timer, knew quite a bit. We went to several museums and spoke to a lot of people, many of them giving inaccurate information. For example, at the state museum in Harrisburg, staff stated that the museum had nothing in it from outside of the state. But we found lots of displays in the museum from other states as well as Central America. The University of Pennsylvania Museum, in Philadelphia, is the key one, and the one referred to by Cayce. Lora actually was allowed to search through all the field notes made during the 1930s expeditions to Piedras Negras, and we viewed a lot of artifacts recovered from there. The Penn Museum still houses many quite amazing artifacts from Piedras Negras. At Piedras Negras, we could see many of the excavations and holes created by removed artifacts performedby Penn's expeditions.

"In the early 1970s, a team (SEAS - Scientific Exploration and Archaeology Society) led by geologist John Gifford discovered another site called “Proctor’s Road” consisting of clumps of stone at intervals running in a straight line for a mile."

The May 2005 report included the first aerial video of Proctor's Road, the stone circles located on it, and the discovery of several stone anchors there. The water there is more shallow than the "Bimini Road," and it is about 0.8 mile from the Bimini Road. It was amazing to me that no one had ever followed up on the 1970s discovery of Proctor's Road until our expedition in 2005. The March 2006 expedition we took to Bimini and Cay Sal included a trip to Proctor's Road. We found 6 stone anchors in a small area. We pulled up two of these and they are now being tested. They were very impressive including one that weighed around 400 pounds—way too large for small boats. There is no doubt whatsoever these are stone anchors. The July SciFi documentary is to include some of our aerial video from Proctor's Road, the recovery of the anchors, and some of the stone circles. The DVD video we made about the May 2005 expedition (The Ancient Bimini Harbor) shows it also, but we did not pull up the anchors back in May. We were astonished to find them... We were also astonished at the finds we made at Bimini. It's incredible how actually inspecting the area led to numerous discoveries.

"In 1977, the marble “head” was raised and a coring of the rocks was made. The results of the coring were inconclusive. The head may—or may not—have been a carving."

Dr. David Zink found the marble "head" not far from the Bimini Road back in his 1970s expeditions. He eventually removed it and it was sent to a museum at Bimini. Since then, it has disapeared along with many other artifacts. There are a lot of photos of it in existence including some in Zink's book, The Stones of Atlantis. It may well have been a carved head, and many of the photos bear this out, but we may never know for certain. The stone corings Zink performed, not surprisingly, did not match the coring results by Eugene Shinn, the "geologist" who had only a bachelor's degree in biology. Zink published the coring results after his book came out. He found Micrite in the rocks and also found that they did not match the beachrock found on the modern shoreline of Bimini.

Greg
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« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2007, 12:36:59 am »

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The University of Pennsylvania Museum, in Philadelphia, is the key one, and the one referred to by Cayce. Lora actually was allowed to search through all the field notes made during the 1930s expeditions to Piedras Negras, and we viewed a lot of artifacts recovered from there. The Penn Museum still houses many quite amazing artifacts from Piedras Negras. At Piedras Negras, we could see many of the excavations and holes created by removed artifacts performedby Penn's expeditions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's right, it didn't even connect for me that the reason Cayce would mention Pennysylvania Museum was because the University of Pennsylvania was the one doing field work at Piedras Negras during the 1930's! So, I guess they didn't find anything resembling the Hall of Records according to their field notes?

Also, is Proctor's Road made of the same big blocks seen at Bimini, and was it part of a harbor complex, too?
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2007, 12:37:39 am »

Penn surely didn't find the Hall of Records at Piedras Negras, but Cayce related that they found something that had an emblem of the "Firestone" on it. There are a few possibilities for that, but there are major disagreements about what it might be.

Proctor's Road is quite different from the Bimini Road. Proctor's Road begins near the shoreline and then runs to the South, slightly toward deeper water, passing over many ancient shorelines. It is generally 100 feet wide or so, and runs about a mile in length--very straight. It is comprised of many smaller, thinner white flat stones on the bottom, obviously limestone. These are totally dissimilar to the Bimini Road. Basically, equally spaced along the mile length of Proctor's Road are 5 stone circles formed in two ways. Two of the circles are formed of large stones piled together into a circular pile. Three of the circles are made from rectangular blocks that are about 3-5 feet long, 2-3 feet wide, and 2-feet thick. These large blocks are arranged into a stone ring where sand lies on the bottom in the center of the ring of stones. It's quite strange and reminds one of standing stone circles of Europe, except these are not standing. The piles of stones are nearly identical to "mooring circles" that were employed in some Mediterranean harbors--for example, Cosa. The many stone anchors we found support that idea since the anchors were usually in association with one of the circles.

Greg
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2007, 12:38:11 am »

Greg, I guess a better question would be, does Proctor's Road look anything like the work of the same culture that did Bimini and Andros? If not, do you still think they're related? Has any carbon testing been done on the rocks from Proctor's Road, as has been done on Bimini?

I've read some more on Andrew Collins' theories today, and he mentions that the Spanish explorers were told by the natives that the landmass (which he originally makes 600 x 400 km, not a continent) split apart in a prehistoric cataclysm. I did a check and couldn't find anything on the mythology of the islanders. Is it actually in their mythology or was it simply in the stories the Spanish explorers were told at their landing?
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2007, 12:38:48 am »

Des:

"I guess a better question would be, does Proctor's Road look anything like the work of the same culture that did Bimini and Andros? If not, do you still think they're related? Has any carbon testing been done on the rocks from Proctor's Road, as has been done on Bimini?"

Proctor's Road, certainly not a road, is very dissimilar to both the Bimini Road and Andros Platform. It's as if a completely different culture made Proctor's Road. We speculate that because Proctor's Road is in much shallower water that it is a more recent harbor feature, similar to "mooring circles" used in some Mediterranean harbors. The mooring circles may well have been formed after the main harbor (known as the "Bimini Road" or Wall) became unusable due to rising waters around 3000 BC.

There are no carbon dates that are definitely from the area of Proctor's Road, but of course, you can't carbon date rock. The carbon dating that has been done at Bimini has been "bulk dating" where what is presumably "beachrock" (i.e. limestone formed on a beach) is ground up to hopefully reveal something that once lived: like a shell organism. It leads to dates that are too recent and that statement comes from the prime skeptic Eugene Shinn, although the article he published on the unreliability of bulk carbon dating was put out with his name as "Shinnu".

Ball & Gifford (1980) reported the following dating test results at Bimini (that is, dates their research revealed):
1. C14 date of a shell they found under forming beachrock at the beach due East from the Bimini Road: > 29,000 years-old.
2. C14 date from limestone under a dune on the beach 2 feet above the surface: 26,000 years-old.
3. Uranium-Thorium date of limestone (bedrock) under 16-feet of water in the middle of the Bimini Road: 14,992 years-ago.
4. C14 date from sample of beachrock just to the west of Bimini Road: 6830 years-ago.
5. Three C14 dates from Bimini Road beachrock (marine limestone) from 15-feet of water: 2525, 3210, and 3975 years-ago.

Gifford would not tell me if they used "bulk carbon dating" but that's more than likely since the new technology wasn't available then.

One of our hopes is that a sample from one of the stone anchors will yield something that can be carbon dated with the best methods available. It's in a lab now, the best in the world. I should have the results by April 2, but since it'll be reported in the documentary, I'm not sure if we'll report the results in April or wait.

"I've read some more on Andrew Collins' theories today, and he mentions that the Spanish explorers were told by the natives that the landmass (which he originally makes 600 x 400 km, not a continent) split apart in a prehistoric cataclysm. I did a check and couldn't find anything on the mythology of the islanders. Is it actually in their mythology or was it simply in the stories the Spanish explorers were told at their landing?"

First, keep in mind that Plato (Critias) gave the dimensions of the "plain" surrounding the Center City on the main island of Atlantis as 3000 stadia by 2000 stadia. (552 x 368 km)

I'm not sure which group of natives you are referring to, Andy's book is packed with info. One of the problems modern "internet" researchers have is that many of the old books and reports, journals, etc, simply aren't available on the internet.

Greg
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2007, 12:39:53 am »

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ball & Gifford (1980) reported the following dating test results at Bimini (that is, dates their research revealed):
1. C14 date of a shell they found under forming beachrock at the beach due East from the Bimini Road: > 29,000 years-old.
2. C14 date from limestone under a dune on the beach 2 feet above the surface: 26,000 years-old.
3. Uranium-Thorium date of limestone (bedrock) under 16-feet of water in the middle of the Bimini Road: 14,992 years-ago.
4. C14 date from sample of beachrock just to the west of Bimini Road: 6830 years-ago.
5. Three C14 dates from Bimini Road beachrock (marine limestone) from 15-feet of water: 2525, 3210, and 3975 years-ago.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Greg, sounds like some of the dates from the road itself are still a bit too recent! But then, these are the results from 1980, is this new testing the first they've done on the Bimini Road since then?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, keep in mind that Plato (Critias) gave the dimensions of the "plain" surrounding the Center City on the main island of Atlantis as 3000 stadia by 2000 stadia. (552 x 368 km)

I'm not sure which group of natives you are referring to, Andy's book is packed with info. One of the problems modern "internet" researchers have is that many of the old books and reports, journals, etc, simply aren't available on the internet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's true, but the dimensions I gave for the island as well as the info about the tribes actually came from the introduction Andrew Collins wrote to your book, the A.R.E.'s Search for Atlantis, which I picked up yesterday. He isn't very specific about the tribes, but mentions that they come from Tobago, Venezuela and the Yucatan, and mention "a period of darkness, fire falling from the sky and the presence overhead of a fiery snake."
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2007, 12:40:45 am »

Brooke:  Greg, have you ever thought of using radiometric dating to get more accurate results? It has managed to test rocks to uncover the exact age of the earth, currently given as 4.7 billion years old!!!
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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2007, 12:41:31 am »

Des: Sorry about the delay. Real life happens.

I hadn't noticed Andrew's description of Atlantis and the dimension of 3000 stades (despite it being in my book). That (300 stades) was the entire length of a curving river at the base of the mountain range to the north of the Center City. From the river, a series of canals flowed south into the area around the Center City. By the way, the Zapata site at Cuba has a massive complex of ancient canals flowing from a river to the north (at the base of a mountain range) into the Zapata swamp (crisscrossed with canals) and then to the underwater circular island.

Regarding Andy's statements about legends of the indiginous tribes in Cuba and the Bahamas, these come from written sources. Some of it is found in the 6-volume Bureau of Ethnology's 1930s-40s "Handbook on South American Indians." I have that set and the information in them is astounding. To my knowledge, none of these have been made available on the internet. Each book is about 1000 pages.

The current research at Bimini (the dating) is the only that's been done since the early 1980s.

Brooke: Yes, we've explored utilizing any and all available technologies to date things. Each one has advantages and drawbacks. The essential drawback is that dating the formation date of a stone is only useful to a degree. We've decided that we have to pull up a large piece of a block at Bimini to ensure that a good date can be established.

As an update, several things have emerged in the past few days. The large, 400-pound stone anchor we recovered at Bimini was limestone, had no shell in it, and no silica. It was cut from a land source of limestone, apparently for the specific purpose as an anchor. It indicates a sophisticated maritime culture. More recent native groups (like the Caribs and Arawaks) used small stone anchors in the canoes. This one was massive and could not have possibly been used by natives in a small boat. It was way too large for a 40-ft dive boat. It is comparable to many Phoenician anchors.

Careful inspection of underwater video taken at Cay Sal has revealed a multi-holed stone anchor at what is called the "Anguilla Arc," verifying that it was used as a harbor. The breakwater has as many as 5 layers of blocks.

On the inside of the Arc (the side facing the sandy harbor) I found and removed a rectangular slab of stone wedged deeply under a low layer of blocks. A sample of the stone was sent to a geology lab. The stone was limestone (not beachrock) without any silicon. Curiously, the stone was found to have particles of iron embedded into it. It was cut from a land formation of limestone, and we are now having another lab try to identify a source.

Greg
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2007, 12:42:03 am »

Hi Greg, don't feel bad about not knowing what Andrew wrote in the intro to your book, I have the world's worst memory and forget things like that all the time.

Yes, the stone anchor would have to be from a different era from the past as the Indians as it would be too big for their canoes! 400 lbs? It must have come from a pretty big ship.


quote:
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By the way, the Zapata site at Cuba has a massive complex of ancient canals flowing from a river to the north (at the base of a mountain range) into the Zapata swamp (crisscrossed with canals) and then to the underwater circular island.
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Greg, are you sure that they're canals, and if, so that they're manmade? Were they identified through satellite photoes? The reason why I ask is because the grid formation at Cay Sal looked like something manmade and they turned out to be grass.
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2007, 12:42:46 am »

Des:

I've forgotten far more than I remember.

The large anchor is similar to Phoenician ones, same size, shape, weight.

As to the canals in Cuba, yep, they are canals--manmade. To see some, go to google, click images, then search: "cuba" "zapata" "canals"

The canals were first encountered by the Spanish and small numbers of the "Carib" tribes lived there. Not long after, the Taino tribes were also found in the peninsula using the canals. The Caribs "disappeared" and the Tainos who survived the Spanish incursions went inland. Spanish, British, and later, American explorers investigated some of the canals. In the early 1900s, lumber companies began deepening some of the canals and they found a crisscrossing of canals in the dense jungle. Archaeologists working in the area attributed the canals to the Taino, but only because the Taino were stil there when the Spanish arrived.

As to satellite images of the area, I've obtained three images that show 4 of the largest canals. There are companies that take tourist excursions through the canal systems for birdwatching.

Greg
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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2007, 12:45:31 am »

Greg, if you don't mind, I'm going to print an excerpt of yours from the Cayce site because it has all the details of the Bimini Hoax, so I can refer to it later:


quote:
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Ancient Harbor Evidence

Overall, the evidence from the expedition pointed to an obvious conclusion we have previously put forth: both the Bimini and Andros

Dimitri Rebikoff, a French oceanographer who had a Ph.D. from the Sorbonne, immediately recognized the Bimini Road as an ancient harborworks when he first viewed it in 1969. Rebikoff was personally involved in surveying and photographing dozens of the ancient Mediterranean harbors when they were discovered. Rebikoff presented his evidence from the Bimini Road to a large group of European geologists and archaeologists in the 1970s, and all agreed that it appeared to be a harbor identical to several in the Mediterranean. Rebikoff has either been ignored by the skeptics or depicted as a gullible "new ager." But texts and articles in underwater archaeology describe Rebikoff as "a brilliant oceanographer." During this trip, the evidence we found for human hands being involved with the formation of the Bimini Road is overwhelming and irrefutable. We do not assert that the timeframe for their use as harbors was 10,000-years ago. That issue remains unsettled at the moment, however, with the seabed there constantly increasing in height, the dating of the harbors is quite problematical.

Because the finds from this expedition were completely contrary to what two skeptical geologists and a skeptical archaeologist wrote in their 1970's, 80's, and 2004 articles, the original journal articles published by the skeptics were obtained and carefully reviewed. Another reason that these articles were examined was the astonishing number of factual and spelling errors evident in a 2004 article published in the Skeptical Inquirer by the main skeptic, Eugene Shinn. To understand the background circumstances of the geologist's findings, it is necessary to provide a few details. First, both of the geologists who are the main skeptics only held bachelor's degrees. In fact, Eugene Shinn,who is now 71-years old, the US Geological Survey geologist who published the most damning articles, had nothing but a bachelor's degree in biology until 1998. Shinn stated he was awarded a Ph.D. in 1998 "because of his publication record." Second, the skeptics' time spent at Bimini was very limited and their funds were limited. At least one of them went there with the intention of bringing sense into what was perceived as nonsense.

Discovering that there were serious discrepancies in the details of results presented in the initial study published by the most skeptical geologist (Shinn) with both of his susequent reports, he was contacted along with the other prominent skeptical geologist (John Gifford). After a series of interactions, the following astonishing conclusions, backed by evidence that includes written statements from one or the other of the skeptics, have been reached. Note that none of these conclusions were expected prior to the contacts with the geologists.

First, neither of the geologists appear to know precisely where all their cores were taken. There is definite evidence, both from descriptions in their published reports as well as in our finds at Bimini, that some of their "tested" cores were taken from locations other than the Bimini Road. We counted all the cores on the Road and noted their positions via GPS. (We actually found "misdirected" cores about a mile away from the Bimini Road, took GPS coordinates on them, and both filmed and photographed them.) In truth, in the early 1970s, few people were aware of the precise location and actual extent of the Bimini Road.

Second, all the carbon dates cited by skeptics for the blocks at the Bimini Road are unreliable and do not provide even a rough guess of the age of the stones. This is because of the "bulk carbon dating method " used, which definitely contaminates stone with a constant inflow of modern carbon.

Third, although many skeptics assert that Uranium-Thorium dating was done on stones from the Bimini Road, that is totally untrue. Gifford dated the bedrock immediately under the large blocks (somewhere on the Bimini Road) to 15,000-years ago—utilizing the more accurate Uranium-Thorium technique. Skeptics are loathe to mention that finding, which was published in Gifford and Ball's original article.

Fourth, none of the skeptics could have actually examined all of the Bimini Road from the surface, much less looking closely at stones from the bottom. This is self-evident because their observations about the stones are clearly inaccurate and are actually easily refuted. This factor, along with others, led to inaccurate conclusions about the site.

Fifth, numerous stones have cube-like and carved rectangular slabs underneath them that serve as leveling stones. Dozens of rectangular slabs were discovered, many of which were literally stacked under larger blocks. Skeptics have claimed that there are no prop stones under any blocks, but this simply isn't true. The carved rectangular slabs under several massive blocks could not have dropped from boats. They appear to be leveling supports for the large blocks.

Sixth, a series of conclusions and observations first published by the skeptics is nearly totally inaccurate and directly contrary to the actual evidence.

Seventh, skeptics claim that not a single block comprising the Bimini Road sits on another block. This isn't true and with an hour or two of diving and exploring they could have easily found many examples. Only a few examples of multiple tiers are shown in this article, but many more will be on the video. The majority of the massive blocks, which have sides not covered in sand, have underlying stones, prop stones, and leveling slabs.

Eighth, the primary claim made by the skeptics about the Bimini Road, that it is a single slab of beachrock that fractured in place, is based on a near-total distortion and a later gross misstatement of what was actually found. In Eugene Shinn's first article, published in 1978 in the journal Sea Frontiers, Shinn reported that he took 17 cores on the Road, with 8 in one area and 9 in another area. The cores were taken in an attempt to look at the internal bedding of the stones to determine their original formation. Beachrock forms on a beach where constant wave motion moves small pebbles and sand onto a continuously cementing carbonate stone. As the pebbles cement into the forming stone, they leave a distinctive inner set of banding layers that dip toward the deep water. Shinn hoped to find that all the stones of the Bimini Road showed the exact same internal bedding—identical layers of pebbles—dipping toward deep water. In the area with 8 cores, Shinn reported that there were no discernable internal bedding layers present. In the area of the 9 cores, he reported that some of the internal bedding layers dipped toward deep water and many of them were horizontal. Because nothing he found in his cores argued for the manmade origin of the stone blocks, Shinn concluded that the blocks had to all be from a single massive piece of beachrock that fractured in place. But in his 1980 Nature article with skeptical archaeologist Marshall McKusick, the summary of the findings from Shinn's 1978 core results stated this: "Two areas of the formation were studied, and both show slope and uniform particle size, bedding planes, and constant dip direction, from one block to the next." In a 2004 article in the Skeptical Inquirer, Shinn again repeated the results of his 1978 cores on the Bimini Road: "Sure enough, all of the cores showed consistent dipping of strata toward the deep water, and distinctive layers of rounded beach pebbles could be traced from one stone to another." In brief, the results Shinn reported in 1978 do not match, even remotely, with what he wrote in 1980 and again in 2004. According to his original detailed findings in Sea Frontiers, only a quarter or less of the cores he took showed a bedding plane toward deep water. About half of the cores, according to his report, showed no internal bedding whatsoever. The other cores showed a horizontal bedding.

Shinn was subsequently contacted and asked about this major discrepancy in his initially reported results and subsequent summaries. He admitted that his 1980 and 2004 summaries were "imprecise" and were the fault of "no peer review." It was an unsatisfactory explanation, especially since Shinn continues to make the same inaccurate assertion in newspaper articles and conference talks. Then Shinn unexpectedly added, "but you can't see internal bedding in 4-inch cores." Interestingly, all of Shin's cores were 4-inch cores. He seemed to be admitting that none of the cores could have possibly showed any internal bedding anyway. He also verified that his carbon dates were done utilizing the unreliable bulk sampling method and that students learning carbon testing did most of the tests. This came after one of his own articles in the journal Geology was cited, wherein bulk testing of beachrock was described as unreliable and likely to be contaminated. Despite all of these factors, Shinn ridiculed the new finds at Bimini and stands by the natural beachrock explanation, despite the facts he concedes in the above.

This was all completely unexpected, and it seems that the young and inexperienced geologists who conducted the research were influenced by their own biased beliefs and pressured by others with high academic and professional standing. The grossly exaggerated results in the later "scientific" reports are bewildering. McKussick utilized the Bimini study published in Nature, and again later in an article in Archaeology, to state that the Cayce organization is a "cult and a religion." He asserted that Cayce was a fake and that the Bimini Hoax was perpetrated to bring attention to the Cayce organization and tourists to Bimini. In his emails Shinn related that there was "craziness" going on at Bimini and it appears he wanted to bring a scientific resolution to it. The journal editor was happy to get a "geological exlanation" and put an end to the controversy. Shinn admitted that he "did it for fun" and that "there was not the usual rigor associated with our regular research." But whatever actually occured as the results were compiled, what was actually found and what was claimed to have been found are vastly different. The 1980 Nature article by Shinn and McKusick termed the affair "the Bimini Hoax." It appears that they were quite correct, but their assertion about the identity of the hoaxers was projected onto others rather than the real culprits.

Last, while the skeptics claim that there are no toolmarks or a single human artifact ever found there (that couldn't have been dropped from a boat), that has been proven untrue. There are numerous massive and smaller blocks with many toolmarks including mortises and large cuts into stone. (These are not the cuts made into a few stones by the geologists themselves.)

Other than what seems to be quite contradictory and inaccurately reported results in the most skeptical reports, one other fact becomes clear. Numerous textbooks claim that the 1970's and 80's research by the skeptical geologists produced irrefutable proof that the Bimini Road was nothing more than a huge single piece of natural beachrock that fractured in place. These textbooks reference all the skeptical geological "studies." Documentaries on Atlantis, which discuss Bimini, invariably have a skeptical geologist or two who state that they have carefully "read all the research published on the Bimini Road" and that the "evidence clearly shows that it is natural beachrock dated to somewhere around 2000-years ago." If it is true that they actually read all the original skeptical geologists' reports, that means the so-called "scientists" authoring the textbooks and appearing on the documentaries are pseudoscientists themselves—engaging in a deliberate falsification or deliberate misstatement of results to fit a preconceived agenda. However, if these individuals only read secondary sources (subsequent skeptical articles or textbooks describing the results of the original research), then they have also engaged in another form of pseudoscience considered to be nonscientific in textbook writing. This assertion is made because, if they actually "carefully read the original research reports" as they claim, they had to see the obvious discrepancies.

A DVD documentary, tentatively titled "Uncovering The Great Bimini Hoax," is now in preparation with its release scheduled for October 2005. In brief, the documentary will demonstrate that the hoax was perpetrated by the skeptics themselves. That's an amazing assertion, but one that has been totally documented. The release date coincides with the ARE's Annual Ancient Mysteries Conference where all the results will be fully presented. However, the film itself will not be shown at the conference as a detailed talk will be presented with both photos and some video clips.

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http://edgarcayce.org/am/bimini2005report.html
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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