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Ghosts (Original)

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Jennie McGrath
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 10:56:56 pm »

 
Sun Goddess

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   posted 08-21-2005 03:51 AM                       
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Hollywood's Most Famous Ghosts
By Cheri Sicard
Photos by Mitch Mandell


HOLLYWOOD, CA - Hollywood, land of bright lights, movie stars and broken dreams. Is it any wonder that a place which inspires such passion, such ultimates in highs and lows would also be a place that some souls find difficult to leave, even after death?

Many people hope to spot a celebrity when they visit Tinseltown, but if you know where to look, you just might spot a celebrity ghost! Stories of restless spirits abound in Los Angeles. We thought it would be interesting to explore the legends surrounding some of the area's most famous shades. Our tour of Haunted Hollywood will put you on the trail of such luminaries as Marilyn Monroe, Clifton Webb, Orson Welles, Rudolph Valentino, Ozzie Nelson, Lon Chaney and Montgomery Clift.

Hollywood Park Memorial Cemetery
Our search begins, where else, Hollywood Park Memorial Cemetery. The park at 6000 Santa Monica Blvd. is the last resting place of many of Hollywood's elite, including Charlie Chaplin Jr., Rudolph Valentino, and Douglas Fairbanks. Actor Clifton Webb, however, seems to have made the cemetery his permanent home. Best known for his roles in Laura and the original Mr. Belvedere, Webb's restless spirit has been seen lurking in the foyer of the Abbey of Palms Mausoleum (free maps are available at the administration Building). Webb might prove to be an indecisive spirit, as his ghost has also been reportedly seen at his former Hollywood Hills home.

While at Hollywood Memorial Park, you might also want to check out the grave of Virginia Rappe. For those who are too young, or don't remember, Virginia is the girl who died in the Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle scandal in the days of silent film. Although Arbuckle was acquitted of any wrongdoing in the starlet's death, the scandal, nevertheless, ruined his career. The sound of phantom sobbing has been reported near Virginia's last resting place.

Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel
A stop at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel is a must, as at least two famous, and several not so famous, ghosts reside there. The hotel's most famous haunting concerns a mirror which sits outside the elevators in the lower level. Hundreds of tourists pass the full length mirror each day without knowing its strange history. The mirror was originally part of the furnishings in a room which was frequently used by Marilyn Monroe. Several people have reported seeing the tragic actress' image reflected in the glass of this particular mirror. Upon turning around, of course, no one was there. While we're on the subject of Marilyn, it is of interest to note that her ghost has also been spotted hovering near her tomb at Westwood Memorial Cemetery, which is located at 1218 Glendon Ave, Westwood.

Room number 928 of the Roosevelt has a permanent guest that often shares his quarters with the more temporary visitors. Actor Mongomery Clift lived there for three months while filming From Here To Eternity. Hotel guests and employees alike have reported feeling the actor's presence. Some of these "feelings" have even been tactile. One guest felt a hand patting her shoulder and others claim cold spots in the room.

In addition to its' two famous spirits, The Roosevelt also sports some lesser known ghosts. Guests visiting the Blossom Room, which played host to the first Academy Awards banquet, have reported cold spots and several witnesses have spotted a spectre dressed in a white suit on the balcony above the mezzanine. When they approach, the ghost simply vanishes.

More Hollywood Haunts
Across the street from the Roosevelt, Mann's Chinese Theatre is the home of a couple of spirits. The ghost of actor Victor Killian is said to search the sidewalk outside the theatre for the man who bludgeoned him to death in his nearby apartment in 1982. Employees of the theatre have also told of strange sounds and movement coming from behind the theatre's curtain, often after hours when no one else is there.

Heading east down Hollywood Blvd., you will reach the famous intersection of Hollywood and Vine. Appropriately, one of horror's greatest stars, Lon Chaney, lives on here as the departed actor's form was often seen sitting on a bus bench at the intersection. Although reports of his ghost ceased when the bench was removed a few years back, you never know when itmight return.

The caped figure of Chaney is also said to haunt sound stage 28 at Universal Studios (a bit of trivia you're not likely to hear on the tour). Several Universal employees have reported strange activities (apparitions, noises, cold spots) around the Jaws lagoon as well, especially after hours. The identity of this shade is unknown.

Paramount Studios at 5451 Marathon Ave. in Hollywood is reportedly host to the spirit of Rudolph Valentino. The Sheik's shimmering spectre has been seen floating among old garments in the costume department. In addition, an unidentified ghost is said to roam the catwalks above Studio five.

America's favorite father Ozzie Nelson reportedly haunts the home where he lived for over twenty five years, now a private residence at 1822 Camino Palermo Rd. in the Hollywood Hills. When Harriet Nelson sold the house in 1980, the new owners discovered many mysterious activities going on including faucets and lights that turned themselves on and off, doors that opened and closed themselves and loud footsteps when no one was there.

Dessert with Mr. Welles
While touring Haunted Hollywood, you're likely to get hungry, so why not combine lunch or dinner with some additional ghost hunting. Sweet Lady Jane's Restaurant at 8360 N. Melrose Ave. in Los Angeles serves great food and exquisite desserts. They also play host to the ghost of actor Orson Welles. Customers and employees have reported seeing Welles' caped apparition sitting at his favorite table. The scent of his favorite brandy and cigars have often accompanied these sightings.

This is merely a taste of what's available for those wishing to explore Hollywood's macabre side. Visit some more old Hollywood haunts and start questioning the employees. I'll bet you uncover even more famous Hollywood ghosts!

http://www.fabuloustravel.com/ww/haunthollywood/haunthollywood.html

[ 08-21-2005, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: Sun Goddess ]
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Jennie McGrath
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 10:59:41 pm »

Sun Goddess

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   posted 08-21-2005 03:56 AM                       
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The Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel (at 7000 Hollywood Boulevard) supposedly has not just one, but two celebrity ghosts! Montgomery Clift, stayed at the hotel for three months while rehearsing his role in the 1953 movie "From Here to Eternity." His ghost now allegedly haunts room #928 of the 9th floor of the hotel, playing a trumpet, and pacing the hallways while reciting his old lines.

At the same historic Roosevelt Hotel, the ghost of Marilyn Monroe has supposedly been seen several times in a full-length mirror, which was originally located in her poolside Suite 1200, where Marilyn often stayed. The mirror in which her image supposedly appears is now located next to the elevator on the lower level. You can find out more about the "haunted." Roosevelt Hotel at the hotel's website.

There is also supposed to be a "cold spot" in the Blossom Ballroom at the same Roosevelt Hotel (the room where the very first Academy Awards ceremony was held), a circle about 30 inches in diameter and about 10 degrees colder than the rest of the ballroom.


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The corridors of the Queen Mary (the largest passenger ship ever built) are lined with black & white photos of famous Hollywood stars who made the Atlantic crossing in first-class style. But it is an unknown ghost who supposedly haunts the hallways and lower regions of this giant luxury liner, which is now docked as a tourist attraction in Long Beach, CA. (at the south end of the Long Beach Freeway).


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The ghost of magician Harry Houdini is said by some to roam the remains of his former home in the Hollywood Hills, located at 2398 Laurel Canyon Boulevard.


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The ghost of actor Clifton Webb (the original "Mr. Belvedere" in the 1947 comedy "Sitting Pretty") supposedly haunts the Abbey of the Psalms mausoleum (where he is buried) at Hollywood Memorial Park Cemetery, next to Paramount Studios in Hollywood. (He is entombed in a hallway called the Sanctuary of Peace, inside the huge mausoleum).

Others have reported seeing the same ghost at Clifton Webb's old home, at 1005 Rexford Drive, in Beverly Hills.


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The new owners of the old Ozzie & Harriet Nelson house (at 1822 Camino Palmero, in Hollywood), have supposedly experienced unusual phenomena in the former Nelson home, which was made famous in the TV sitcom "The Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet".


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The restless ghost of TV's "Superman," George Reeves, supposedly haunts the Beverly Hills home where he was found dead of a gunshot wound (at 1579 Benedict Canyon Drive). Police ruled it a suicide, but friends and relatives believe he was murdered. Singer Don McLean ("American Pie") recorded a song called "Superman's Ghost," about the troubles George Reeves had with being typecast in his "Man of Steel" role.


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Thelma Todd was a young actress who, during the early 1930's, had co-starred in a number of classic comedies with the Marx Brothers ("Horse Feathers," "Monkey Business"), Laurel & Hardy, and Buster Keaton. She also ran a beachside café, located at 17575 Pacific Coast Highway, between Malibu and Pacific Palisades. Thelma died in 1935 under mysterious circumstances. She was found dead in her car, still parked in the garage above her café. It was ruled an accidental suicide, yet the bloody scene suggested a murder, and many people suspected a cover-up. Today, her old café is owned by Paulist Productions, and employees there have reported seeing Thelma Todd's ghost walking down the staircase. Psychics have reported smelling exhaust fumes in her old garage above the café (at 17531 Posetano Road).


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Culver Studios - where "Gone With the Wind" was shot - was built by film-make Thomas Ince. Rumor has it that Ince was accidentally shot and killed by a jealous William Randolph Hearst (the inspiration for "Citizen Kane"), who was supposedly aiming at Charlie Chaplin but missed. According to the legend, the ghost of Thomas Ince now haunts his old studio, walking through walls and criticizing the new management. (9336 Washington Blvd, in Culver City.)


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The Vogue Theatre in Hollywood is supposed to be haunted by at least seven separate entities, allegedly including one particular spirit identified as "Fritz," a projectionist at the theater, who died in the projection booth. Other ghosts here include a a maintenance engineer, as well as a school teacher and her students who were killed almost a century ago when Prospect Elementary School (which used to stand on the site) burned down. The Vogue has been featured on numerous network TV broadcasts, and it is claimed that most film crews have had paranormal experiences inside the Vogue. (6675 Hollywood Blvd., east of Highland.)


http://www.seeing-stars.com/Died/Haunted.shtml
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Jennie McGrath
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 11:00:13 pm »

Joanna Gloam

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   posted 08-21-2005 04:14 AM                       
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Haunted Hollywood. You have to love it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 11:00:47 pm »

Mish

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  posted 08-21-2005 06:22 AM                       
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Hi guys-
I've done plenty of photography around cemeteries and haunted places and mostly come up with photos of gravestones and such, of course. However, early this year I went looking for ghosts at an old Montana ghost town called Bannack. There is an old hotel there that has notorious hauntings, mostly of a gal called Dorothy Dunn who drowned in the town pond. I went there on a winter day and there was not a single person there except the caretaker. I spent time walking around with a compass, an audio recorder, a video cam, and a 35mm camera... my normal gear. I asked Dorothy to make herself known to us, as I walked around, but didn't see or hear of anything unusual.

When I got home and developed my photos, I could see an image of a MAN in one of the windows of the hotel, looking out. I asked around to see if others could plainly see and describe the man too. They could. He has a receeding hairline, dark hair, really long, old fashioned sideburns and hooded eyes. This was obviously not Dorothy, so I looked into the history of Bannack and found who I think is the man in my photo. His name was Henry Plummer and he was the corrupt sherriff of the town in the 1800's gold rush out here. There have even been a few sightings of his ghost at Bannack too as well as Dorothy's, I just hadn't know that when I started looking for ghosts there. I knew it was Henry in my photo as soon as I found an article with his photo on it. The resemblance is uncanny and after seeing the last "7 Gables Ghost photo" from which I couldn't discern anything, unlike the other photos which are so good they are almost too good to be true!! Thanks, Jennie, for the great link!) I think my photo of Henry, if that's who it is, is at least that quality, if not much better. I wish I could post it here for you all to see. I'm sort of a computer moron and am not sure how else you guys could see it other than posting here or sending it in e-mail.....
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2008, 11:01:23 pm »

rockessence

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   posted 08-21-2005 10:29 AM                       
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"Culver Studios - where "Gone With the Wind" was shot - was built by film-make Thomas Ince. Rumor has it that Ince was accidentally shot and killed by a jealous William Randolph Hearst (the inspiration for "Citizen Kane"), who was supposedly aiming at Charlie Chaplin but missed. According to the legend, the ghost of Thomas Ince now haunts his old studio, walking through walls and criticizing the new management. (9336 Washington Blvd, in Culver City.)"

According to the movie about this incident, Ince was shot from behind down a stairwell by Hearst, because he had the bad luck to have taken as a joke and worn Chaplin's hat. Hearst had been jealous of a suspected affair and was out for blood (obviously). This all took place on Hearst's yacht on a weekend trip to San Diego, where the body was removed and returned to L.A. where it was discovered by police.

As to the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel.....In 1964 I was a junior in HS and my girlfriends and I saw the Rolling Stones play at Santa Monica
Civic Auditorium in the TAMI Show(it's on dvd I hear). We heard that they were staying there so we went like a bat outta hell back to Hollywood and to the Hotel. I got split up with them and we were all over that place. I was on some upper floor and went to dash into the opening elevator when out dashed Brian Jones and Bill Wyman...and Brian smacked me in the chin with the top of his head, that's how tiny he was....(sigh! OH my teenaged heart! His blonde hair was SO SILKY...) Abject apologies all around...

The guy was soon dead of drowning in his swimming pool and I hear that just recently his girlfriend of the time has convinced authorities to re-open the case, claiming murder.

For those interested I am listing the TAMI Show info on the General and Misc. thread...WhooHooo!

[ 08-21-2005, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: rockessence ]

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"Illigitimi non carborundum!"
All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2008, 11:01:54 pm »

Europa

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   posted 08-22-2005 01:50 AM                       
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How to hunt for ghosts!
.
Here is the much anticipated list of all the basic ghost hunting tips necessary for optimal results in the field. The list was created with your safety in mind.
.

.
"A good investigator is objective. Adheres to scientific protocols, eliminates all other possibilities and presents what is found"
.
Let's Get started...
In the instructions below I allude to the fact that it is possible for a ghost to follow you home, and this is obviously a concern among ghost hunters. However, it is extremely rare! You have more of a chance of being followed home by an actual person than of a ghost. I feel confident if you follow the rules all will be well. 


Here are twenty helpful tips:

1. Never go alone on a ghost hunt. Take along a partner for safety and peace of mind.

2. Always say a prayer of protection before and after a ghost hunt. We don't want those pesky ghosts following us home!

3. Make sure all of your equipment is fully charged and that you have extra batteries available. Ghosts have the ability to drain fully charged instruments.

4. Don't walk into an area snapping pictures right off the bat. Give those ghosts that are present some time to get used to you.

5. Be aware of the surroundings for safety sake. For best results, always take a day walk through before doing a nighttime investigation, if possible. The other option would be to show up just before dark (dusk) and have a look around before starting.

6. A ghost hunter steps into an investigation/ghost hunt with the best of feelings for those that are with him/her and for the ghosts that might be present. In other words, full respect for the living and the dead.

7. Above all - NO HORSE PLAY! A serious and conscientious ghost hunter gets results.

8. Large groups should split up into smaller groups of four individuals or less per team.

9. If you are scientifically minded, and I hope that you are.....take along a notebook to record significant occurrences. Begin by logging in the starting time and weather conditions etc. Also make note of surrounding lights so as to not confuse them with anomalies later on in the pictures. Record all meter abnormalities, strange sounds, sightings and feeling or emotions. Each group should take their own notes and compare afterwards.

10. Do not show fear. A gracious ghost will not come around if they sense you are fearful. Yet your fear can have a mischievous ghost feeding on that fear......not good.

11. Always remember, you are the one with the body, and you are the one with the power. Don't give up your power to them through fear.

12. Keep in mind that a lot of the places you will be investigating will be secluded. Because of this you should always bring along some form of protection. I suggest pepper spray or a stun gun. I am of course talking about protecting yourself from bad people, not bad ghosts. *smile*

13. If you are going to be taking pictures, be sure and read the Ghoststudy photography tips page. Click here for that page

14. If you feel that some unknown force wants you out of there...then by all means get out! You should never go against these feelings or you could end up having something show up at your home. Turnabout is fair play right?

15. Never dare an unseen entity to make itself known to you. However, It is okay to ask those present if you can take their picture or record their voice.

16. Make sure you have permission before entering private property such as a cemetery or abandoned house. I know how tempting this can be for a ghost hunter to do. Just remember this though, when you are caught sneaking around, it makes the ghost hunting community as a whole look bad. You could also be fined or jailed. Think about that.

17. If you are not familiar with EMF meters, you might want to check out our meter page for helpful tips on using these devices. We also have meters available for sale through our secured service. Meters can be quite helpful in locating ghostly presences.

18. Now a word about ghost voices, referred to as EVP (electronic voice phenomena). Take along an audio recorder and as you are recording ask questions to those invisible beings that might be in the area. Pause for an answer. It's also a good idea to ask some questions and then leave the device recording in a remote location for around 20 minutes or so. When you come back you might have your replies! For a list of EVP instructions for capturing ghost voices, please see our EVP page.

19. Be sure and have a look at out "standards and Protocol" page for a list of the guidelines expected when hunting for ghosts.

20. End a ghost hunt/investigation by evoking the power of God as a protection. "All unseen presences must remain here in the name of God" (or however you would do it according to your own personal religious beliefs). And don't forget to thank these that are unseen for any evidence you may have acquired during the investigation/hunt.

Don't forget to check out your old photos and you photo albums for ghost anomalies. You might be pleasantly surprised at the ghost pictures you already have!

http://www.ghoststudy.com/new/huntips.html
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2008, 11:03:02 pm »

 
Europa

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   posted 08-22-2005 01:52 AM                       
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... Learn basic ghost photography!

Here's the must know facts that every ghost hunter should know when out on a ghostly photography shoot. There are many basics that all ghost photographers should be aware of in order to have the best possible chance of getting ghostly phenomena on film. My hope here is to furnish all of the essentials necessary to allow everyone the opportunity to capture their own great photos! Once you get that first great snapshot.....you're hooked!

........................

Let's Get started... The first thing you should realize is that ghost phenomena does not always show up on film, even when they are present. And daylight photos are always a challenge. Therefore it's always better to take your photos at night with a flash or in an area with subdue lighting for the best possible chance of capturing something..

Type of camera's to use
Just about any camera will give you the desired photo results you seek. I'm seen great photos come from all types of camera's including simple disposable units. Now if you want the advantage of slow shutter exposure or fancy filters then you'll need a fancy camera to do it but to capture ghost phenomena on film can be achieved by using just about any camera you might have. I also recommend using 400 film. It's an all purpose film that will work great in most conditions.

Digital Camera's are a great tool for ghost hunters, but...
Digital cameras can be a great tool for ghost photographers! They allow you to see your photo results immediately. No film required! They only require a memory card or in some cases like mine, a floppy disk. The big advantage is, you will know right away if you have captured an anomaly, therefore allowing you to track it. There are draw backs however, digital cameras do not furnish a negative, therefore it's hard to prove your photos are not enhanced, A drawback indeed! So with that in mind, never depend totally on a digital camera for all your photos....more like use it as a tool to locate the anomalies. Then have a buddy duplicate your photos with a regular film camera. This will document your findings with a negative as well as a hard copy photo. There are other drawbacks that I am a bit reluctant to mention but I feel a responsibility to do so. First of all, I want to say that digital cameras are the best for capturing authentic ghostly orbs on film because of the technology used, (no doubt about it). But they are also notorious for producing them artificially from airborne particles at the time of the flash. These particles being, dust, pollen, and moisture, to name a few. Please note however that regular film cameras can also pick up these artificial orbs, but it is much more rare and they are always fewer in numbers. A general rule is to look for some substance within the orb structure for authenticity. Also avoid taking pictures in the above described conditions....that's it! In conclusion, Let me reiterate what I suggested earlier...... Taking your digital camera along with you on your ghost hunts (as I always do) but also take along your 35 MM camera as well. It's best to use them as a team.

Here are twenty helpful tips:

1. Ghosts are not just in haunted old buildings. Ghosts are almost everywhere in one form or another. So don't be afraid to take photos at the mall or out on a busy intersection at night, or anywhere else for that matter.

2. When you take photos at night, let's say in a cemetery etc. make sure you have you camera set for night filming. If your camera has this setting, please use it otherwise your photos might come out to dark or fuzzy.

3. Always take photos of something and not just a clearing. Having a background image such as a tombstone, tree, building etc., It adds to the quality of the photo and allows mild light reflection for best possible results.

4. Take lots of pictures! Takes photos of anything & everything with a good background image. The odds are good that you will capture an anomaly if you take at least 50 pictures on your hunt. Then again, you might just get some great stuff on your first roll, you just never know.

5. When taking your photos, make sure to avoid shinny surfaces. The shine from a glossy tombstone or pane of glass etc. can cause anomalies that can appear to look like ghost mist, fog & orb shapes. Oh, and never try taking photos through a glass window. It's just to easy to create shapes that aren't really there. Not worth wondering if it was created from the glass or not. Old glass is the worst.

6. Make sure your camera lens is clean at all times. Again, this can cause anomaly type images to appear. If the lens has a smudge it can easily show up on several pictures and can look like an anomaly, so look for that sign. Try to always keep your lens spotless.

7. Make sure you know where your camera strap & lens cover are at all times. These can appear as a vortex or other ghostly images if left to dangle free from the camera. If your thumb or finger is in the way of the lens it can cause this same effect.

8. Make sure long hair is tied back. Hair can also appear as a ghostly anomaly. Strains of hair can look like orbs in motion as well as ghost energy.

9. Completely avoid taking photos when conditions are windy, foggy, rainy, dusty and where it's snowing or when moisture is in the air. All of these conditions can cause images to appear that look exactly like orbs and ghostly anomalies.

10. In cold weather make sure your breath is not affecting the photo results. Exhaled air in cold weather can appear in front of the lens to create all sorts of strange elusions including mist & orbs shapes.

11. A condition called "Lens Flair" produces strange effects in your photos. To avoid this do not take photos in the direction of the sun. Also, never take a picture in the direction of any direct light source. Preferably have all light sources away from you or even behind you when snapping your photos.

12. Talk to the ghosts. When you enter an area that you want to photograph, such as a cemetery, follow these steps: Walk around the area for about 15 minutes before doing anything else. As you're walking around, clear your mind and think only good thoughts. (Ghosts can sense your feelings and read your thoughts) After 15 minutes, recite the following statement or something similar. "Hi, my name is ______, We have come here to take some pictures of you as ghosts in order to show & document that there is life after death. We have only the best of intentions. We are not here to do any harm and we will only be here long enough to take our photos and then we will leave. Our only request is to take a picture of you, any of you! Thank you so much. I'll begin taking pictures now......thanks. Take all the pictures you think you need to and start heading back to your car. On the way, stop one last time and say: We are leaving now, just in case I didn't get any pictures of you on film can I take just 5 more pictures of this monument (or whatever) and would one of you mind posing for me in these very last photos? Take five more photos and then say: Thank you so much for putting up with me & my group.....we enjoyed being here in your company and am grateful for any photos you have allowed us to have of you..........thanks again, bye. If you were able to get some good pictures and you proved your good intentions to the ghosts.....then you will be welcomed back on your return visit. 

13. Most ghost energy will appear in the air from two to ten feet above the ground. So focus a portion of your attention at that level but don't limit yourself totally to it. Ghostly phenomena can and will also appear above your head at times so be sure and snap some random shots up above at times. Note: in a buildings they can appear at any level of the structure and at any height.

14. The odds of encountering an evil spirit are slim to none but here is the counsel concerning them. Don't go hunting for evil spirits and DO NOT dare them to come around. If you hear or see a sign of evil spirits you should leave immediately.

15. Avoid mirrors or even taking photos in the general direction of a mirror. The camera flash can create a flash in the mirror that can produce a variety of effects including vapor, mist & fog.

16. Try following your instincts when taking ghost photos. If you have a particular inclination to snap a photo in a particular direction or at a particular object, do it. Trust your feelings an as you do, your abilities to sense ghosts should increase.

17. Ghosts are quite often attracted to people and will follow them around. So include people in the photos you take. Tip: When taking photos of others try to include enough space to one side of the picture and above the heads of those in the photo to capture any anomalies present. Remember the purpose is to catch anomalies and people together in the same photo. Here's another trick to use when ghosts might be following you around......put the camera over your shoulder and snap a picture behind you. This can be an effective technique at times......trust me.

18. The best time of the year for capturing ghost images on film are in the colder months when electrostatic energy is at it's highest. These months being October through February. You can capture any kind of ghost type on film at any time of the year but the above mentioned months just increase your odds is all. Orbs however, don't seem to be affected by seasons and are by far the easiest anomalies to capture on film.

19. Remember your flash limitations. A flash can only be useful for up to a certain distance. Normally within 15 feet. So if you are in a cemetery at night and take a picture of a mausoleum 30 feet away, the image will be hard to view and a bit washed out, as well as any anomalies present. Important note: The flash will help highlight the anomaly if the background image is within the the range (15 feet). Note: A flash attachment will increase your range if you desire to use one.

20. Best places to take pictures: Some places are more haunted than others. Some typically haunted locations are cemeteries, old buildings, including old hotels, houses, hospitals, schoolhouses, and churches. Other good spots are theaters as well as any historic part of a city. Use your imagination and see what works for you. Just remember the best rule of thumb is to include places that are rich in history on your investigations. That's the basics in a nutshell.......study and know them well and you will be well on your way to capturing strange phenomena on film in the near future. I might add, once you start seeing the fruits of your labor, you will be hooked! And life will no longer be the same for you as it was before. Ghost hunting is a great hobby and can be a truly fulfilling one as well. We wish you the best of luck in your endeavors!

Don't forget to check out your old photos and photo albums for ghost anomalies. You might be pleasantly surprised at the ghost pictures you already have!
http://www.ghoststudy.com/photography_class.html
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2008, 11:03:30 pm »

Mish

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  posted 08-25-2005 06:49 AM                       
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Questions: Why do you suppose no one ever reports seeing caveman ghosts or, for that matter, ghosts from the future? Do you think they loose the abitity to manifest with time? And if so, why? Plus, if ghosts are detatched spirits, why would they wear clothes? Why don't we see naked ghosts? Spirits with fashion sense I just don't believe. :-)

Also this... if ghosts manifest using the energy in the area (one theory), would we see tons more of them in this day and age where electronics and energy are at a high in just about every household? Are ghost sighting on the rise?

These are just the normal, insane, questions that swirl about in my head on this subject. I don't have answers to any of these questions, but would like to know what any of you think...
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2008, 11:04:22 pm »

Ishtar

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  posted 08-25-2005 08:35 AM                       
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Mish I haven't read much of the posts but I found your question interesting, perhaps UFO's are ghosts from the future.

How could a ghost come from the future, that would mean something died in the future and then it materlized,into the past?

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2008, 11:04:55 pm »

Jennie McGrath

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   posted 08-25-2005 11:52 PM                       
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Good questions, Mish!


quote:
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Questions: Why do you suppose no one ever reports seeing caveman ghosts or, for that matter, ghosts from the future? Do you think they loose the abitity to manifest with time? And if so, why?
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I do think that. From what I have been reading lately, a ghost is like a wound that heals over time! Some psychic event makes a soul stay on this plane, but none of them stay forever. It's like an imbalance that nature tends to correct eventually.


quote:
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 Plus, if ghosts are detatched spirits, why would they wear clothes? Why don't we see naked ghosts? Spirits with fashion sense I just don't believe. :-)
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That, I don't understand, but I am grateful for!

I have actually heard that ghosts reappear in the same clothes they died in.

Who really wants to see a naked ghost??
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2008, 11:05:47 pm »

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   posted 08-26-2005 01:34 PM                       
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Please forgive the long post, some background info...


http://www.ghosthunter.com/tutorials/deathAndDying.htm

Death and Dying
Section 1.
Introduction
The subject of this article is the discussion of death and the processes of dying.
Invaluable information will be given about life and death, from Theosophical sources, and a way will be shown how to verify the given information. This verification is possible because sleep and death are virtually identical processes, a subject about which you can read more in section 7.

The connecting thread throughout this article will be the concept of man as a stream of life-consciousness, using various vehicles ('souls') for manifestation of this stream. For an extensive discussion about this concept I kindly refer the reader to my article 'The psychological key to man', also available at this server site.

Section 2.
Traditional views of death don't encourage us to think about it
In Western culture death is largely a taboo subject. Most of us don't like to think about the fact that one day we will die. Many people hold to the point of view that we live only once, and that after death there is either an eternal 'heaven' or 'hell' or there is 'nothing' at all.

Both these points of view are something of 'an easy solution'. If we have some fixed prospect then there is no need anymore to think about it..

Philosophically spoken, the concept of 'heaven' and 'hell' as static states is a bit childish. Nature herself shows that everything is in a constant change of flux, motion, change. Change is the essence of life. Also, remember the biblical quote: "There are many mansions in my Father's house". Indeed, many spheres and states of consciousness are there in this universe of ours.

Plato provides some interesting food for thought in his 'Phaedo'. Socrates argues in that dialogue that everywhere in nature we can observe the play of opposites: day and night, sleeping and waking, life and death, etc. Regarding the pairs of opposites he notes that everything has the possibility to pass into its opposite state. Every pair of opposites has transitionary forms, e.g. good and bad have as transitions: getting better and getting worse. Night comes forth out of day via twilight, and day comes forth out of night via dawn.
Sleep comes forth out of being awake and being awake out of sleep. With each of these pairs of opposites one can find transitionary states or forms. Moreover, one can understand that these opposites and transitional forms are always a state of something and that the appearance of this something is only a transition from one state to another.
If this applies to all pairs of opposites then the question arises whether life and death are also such a pair of opposites. If so, then it would be logical that there are transitionary states for life and death too. Death is certainly opposite to manifest life, so let's start searching for transitionary states. One gets into life by birth. One gets into the state of death by dying. One can only die because one lives now. Analogous, one can only get into life because one has been dead before.

Conclusion: life and death come forth out of each other and pass into each other via transitional states. A very plausible reasoning indeed! One has only to observe the processes of nature to see endless cycles going on and on.
The key question is what is it exactly that is going through these changing states? Answer: it is CONSCIOUSNESS. Man is consciousness, and specifically gifted with the power of reflection, thinking. The personality (persona = mask) is a temporary vehicle (bundle of energies) builded by the real human monad in order to express itself on the outer planes of life. The higher aspects of thinking can be brought into expression on this outer planes too, thereby providing the means of verifying the truth of reincarnation (see section 7).

Section 3.
Why knowledge of the processes of death is useful
The conclusion of the foregoing section is that any real knowledge of the processes of death, in fact of LIFE ITSELF, is lacking in this world.
Yet, we can find certain clues in some religions as to what happens when we die (see section 6). Since the old Wisdom-Religion was reframed in Theosophy by H.P. Blavatsky, we are given a lot of valuable knowledge about death and the processes involved. Now, having said that this information is available to this world, this doesn't imply blind belief! Rather, Theosophy encourages everybody to investigate the processes of nature and the structure of the universe him/herself. How this can be done is briefly outlined in section 7.

Besides satisfying our curiosity, knowledge of the processes of death is really knowledge about the processes of life itself and about the structure of the universe. Why is this so? Because life and death are, contrary to how we ordinarily see them, two phases of an ever recurring type of cycle in nature: the cycle of manifestation of consciousness on the outer planes of life, preceded and followed by the withdrawal of consciousness from the outer into the inner planes of life.

This cycle can be described in a general form as:

birth, outer life, death, inner life, reincarnation.

Now, if we proceed from the viewpoint of reincarnation, then naturally the question rises what/how/who will we be in our next life. In what circumstances will we be born? These may seem interesting questions - indeed they are to a certain extent - but the most important question is: what will be our character in our next life? Why is this such an important issue? Because our character is a decisive factor, not only regarding which family we will feel attracted to, but also how our entire look upon life will be and how we will live our lives. I tried to explain questions of character and how to refine it by developing one's higher faculties in my previous article.
The point is, that we ourself decide NOW what our character will be in our next life! By necessity, our character in its main aspects cannot differ very much from our character we have build during this lifetime. So we have to work now at ourselves, get some feeling for what we really are, deep inside and bring some spiritual light in our character and express it in our life. No one else will do that for us. You can't buy a wholesome character. The only way to develop it is through selfless service and trying to understand the deep meaning of life and death. One of the 'tricks' is starting to live in the NOW, to just be yourself, dynamically doing what we feel and understand is necessary to do and go on. Don't expect too much fruits of your labor. Your mind will get trapped in expectations (a form of attachment!). If you get a feeling for this, your life will gradually change into a more holistic one. You will feel more connected to the whole, the supreme spirit, including mankind. Your appreciation of nature and her wondrous works might raise considerably.

So, knowledge of the processes of death is really knowledge about the processes of Life and is important for our everyday life.
As your understanding of the inner states of life and consciousness, and how these connect to daily life, expands, verification of the information that is provided here, and in my other articles, becomes possible. See also section 7.

A short clarification:

The circles within the egg-scheme symbolize so-called 'monads': sparks of the universal life-force. These are pure spirit. The stream of consciousness, that flows from the Supreme Spirit at the top of our hierarchy (= most spiritual level in our hierarchy) down to the 'grosser' states of consciousness-matter manifests itself through pairs of souls/ego's. A soul is a 'carrier' of consciousness. An ego is a center of consciousness, a facet of the stream of consciousness, using an appropriate soul (form consisting of minor beings, called lifeatoms - the building blocks of nature). The soul/ego pairs arise out of the interfacing of spirit and matter.

Our personal consciousness is centered in the personal ego. The reincarnating, personal, ego emanated by the personal monad, contains a ray of consciousness emanated from the higher human monad. This is one of the mysteries of the human being: his thinking faculty is dual in character. Man can concentrate his thinking on almost exclusive personal affairs, but on the other hand (s)he can direct his/her attention on high ideals, giving expression to spiritual energies.

The higher human monad has evolved the thinking faculty to an almost perfect degree and the faculty of understanding, the enlightenment principle, to a reasonable degree.

Death occurs as the link between the personal soul/ego and the parent soul/ego, the higher human ego/soul, is broken. The reason for this break is simple: the old 'vehicles' are not longer useful, nay, become an impediment for the parent ego to manifest its qualities. Time to change clothes!
Somewhat rephrased: the 'voltage' has become too high for the lower vehicles to bear. Rememember, the stream of consciousness is a mighty vital, psycho-magnetic stream, the 'voltage' of which must be stepped down all along from the divine planes or states to the grosser states.

One point is exceedingly important to keep in mind when we study scheme's as the above: we should not separate all the planes, states of consciousness, ego's, etc. in any absolute sense. In reality, all these seven states interpenetrate each other, giving rise for example, to the sevenfold division of thinking I discussed at length in my previous article. In other words: the small mirrors the large in some respect. The small contains elements of the whole! So above, so below. The old Hermetic axiom (a master key to understanding !).
Because one IS the seven principles of manifestation (see tables in my previous article), one does not have to look somewhere else for 'enlightenment', etc. One is also what/how one thinks (compare the writings of Marcus Aurelius). Realize your potential and just BE yourself, not forcing yourself into a cramped mental state. Use the faculty, power, of Imagination to form images of Siblinghood, Brotherhood, Sisterhood, cooperation, etc, and these images will concretize into a living reality, touching the minds of those who are spiritual seekers. A persistent effort and discipline is required of course. Remember also: thoughts are living beings!

As to the name 'egg-scheme' I could add that it is derived from the concept (and reality) of the Auric Egg, which was a secret teaching among the Brahmans in India. The Auric Egg is the basis for the commonly known human aura, which last one is only it's grossest form! More info about this mysterious subject can be found in the esoteric instructions of Godfried the Purucker (see lit. #3b).

Section 5.
Death is a gradual process
What happens near the end of our life?

To answer this question we should first of all recognize the fact that we feel a certain attraction to outer life. We want to play our role on the stage of this world. The stream of consciousness manifests itself because there is a certain characteristic within this stream that is attracted to the outer planes of life. If we be honest with ourselves then we can easily be aware of this fact.
In the course of life this attraction gets a bit less strong. We have witnessed many events and see a repetition of the same old patterns over and over again, wherever we look. The attraction to the inner planes or states in the stream of consciousness gets stronger for us. Bit by bit we loose the interest in outer life. We start having periods of absentmindedness. The stream of consciousness flashes up and down, so to speak, between the outer and inner planes or states of consciousness. The 'turning point' has been reached for our personal soul.
This period of the lessening of our attraction to outer life usually takes a couple of months, varying with each individual of course. One more word about the stream of consciousness. This stream is a strong psycho-magnetic vital current that is being transformed by each of the vehicles (souls) it uses to manifest itself. Each vehicle or sheath is similar to a resistance or fuse in an electrical circuit. When the body, the outer vehicle, wears, it will breakdown in the end. The fuse melts.. The stream is interrupted. Compare an ordinary lightbulb. A similar process is going on there (a crude analogy).
This break occurs between the personal human soul and the higher human soul (see egg-scheme). Now that the lower or more outward vehicles are not longer fed by the energy of the stream of lifeconsciousness, these vehicles start disintegrating. The 'overlord' (the higher human soul) doesn't hold the composing cells any longer together..
This leads us to the consideration of afterdeath states.

Section 6.
After-death states according to Theosophy
The following info about the processes of death will be a bit sketchy. A mere outline will be given here. One thing that I don't discuss here is the presence of spiritual guides for the just deceased. Let's just say that I know there are such guides on the subtle planes to help the confused dead, whether it is in times of disaster or not. Of course there are invisible helpers, also helping people where possible while they are still alive on this planet.
I refer the interested reader to the esoteric instructions of dr. Godfried the Purucker (lit. #3a) where (s)he can find more details such as about suicides, fatal accidents, etc.

The last couple of hours before brain-death are spend on the so-called 'panoramic vision', a process that involves the review of the life about to be ended. This review is like an extremely accelerated movie of all the events of life, seen in the light of the CAUSES behind these events.
The personal human ego sees the justice of all that has happened, just because its consciousness is in an extremely altered state and is thus able to understand its past life in the light of karma or the correlation of cause and effect. (But see also my remark about collective karma later on in this section) You could call this panoramic vision a teaching or instruction for the personal human ego.

After physical death of a person there's the following situation:

There is the physical body which is decomposing. The model body, sometimes called: 'etheric' body, is decomposing as well.
The personal soul and animal soul are separated from the physical and model body. They are clothed in a kind of astral body. Together this complex is called: 'kama rupa' (kama=desire, rupa=body or form; hence: body of desire) More discussion about this complex will follow shortly.
The two highest monads that were connected to the personal egoic center of consciousness (through their radiance or rays) follow their own pathways along what is called the circulations of the cosmos: the divine monad withdraws, flashes back to its parent-star from which it is a ray, the spiritual monad starts its travel through the solar system (it is a ray from the sun). The higher human monad is withdrawn in the 'bosom'of the spiritual monad.
Many mysteries are connected with these circulations and it is safe to say that we know very little about it, except what has been stated about it in the writings of Gottfried de Purucker.


(the next couple of paragraphs are more directly involved with the topic of ghosts)


The life energies, the vital streams, disperse into space; they go back to the realms where they belong.

Let's pay some more attention to the kama-rupa complex. It is held together by the force of desires that we collected during our earthly life. The lower human ego/monad is still connected to this complex, working to free itself from the influence of the magnetic earthly desires/energies. The kama-rupa exists also during earth-life, but then it is more fluid, constantly changing since our desires, passions and aspirations, change and evolve during our life-time and consequently the kama-rupa does so too since it consists just of these desires in one's psyche (on the astral plane). The kama-rupa, during life, is the personality pattern, the persona or mask, the lower qualities or merely personal qualities of the human Ego.

Now, where is this kama-rupa to be found? Obviously not in the material world. Theosophy teaches that it remains in a quasi-material world, called: kama-loka (loka=place or state, hence: place of desire). This is a familiar notion in many religions. The Roman Catholics call this place the purgatory, the Greeks called it Hades, the ancient Egyptians called it Amenti (see Egyptian book of the Dead), the Tibetans call this the Bardo (actually a subdivision of the Bardo; see Tibetan book of the Dead and lit. #3a).

[Regarding the Egyptian book of the Dead we could add that it describes esoterically the processes of Initiation, a thing which is related to the processes of death. Death, sleep and initiation are similar processes, varying in degree only.]

We ourselves determine the duration of the kama-rupa state (in which the personal ego is in an unconscious state, thanks heaven!) by the way we live our lives now! If we lead a spiritual life, serving our community, our personal ego-soul will have a short stay in kama-loka varying, say, from a couple of days to a couple of weeks.
If we live otherwise, paying a lot of attention to our personal status, filled with selfish ambitions, paying little attention to the needs of others, then we will have a much longer stay in the kama-loka varying, say, from a couple of years to a much longer period. In some cases (of really vile people) there's a possibility of loss of soul - a mysterious teaching, but important to know - a thing that is clarified by H.P. Blavatsky (see: Blavatsky Collected Writings, Vol. XII, Theos. Publishing House, Wheaton, Il.)

Well, you could say, what does it matter if my soul stays long in the kama-loka or not? One answer to this lies in the dangers for the kama-rupa to be attracted to seances. Theosophy teaches that necromantic practices are unhealthy and dangerous, both to the medium and participants as for the deceased. For the latter especially if the deceased's soul is still in the kama-loka as in cases of accidental death. It may very well be impressed with the unclean vibrations of the medium and of other forces, attracted to the seance.
H.P. Blavatsky and others have repeatedly warned against these practices (see lit. #3a, #7 and #8).

Leave the dead undisturbed! If you have deep love for a deceased what better respect could you pay to him/her than to live according to the highest ideals of that person? By identifying with these ideals and the highest qualities/characteristics of the deceased you will actually incorporate these qualities in your own character!

Speaking about the dying person, esoteric teachings state that one should not disturb this person by being overly emotional. I realise that this may sound harsh towards the relatives, etc. but in truth it is a sound advice. The dying has other concerns; (s)he prepares for the panoramic vision and needs quietness, peace, around him/her.

Coming back to the issue of the kama-rupa: when the human monad of the deceased one has released itself from the lower desires then the SECOND DEATH occurs.
This implies the absorption of the higher aspirations (higher desires), all the noble qualities developed during earth-life, into the higher human ego-soul-monad. This marks the end of the kama-loka state of the personal ego. Better phrased: these spiritual and intellectual qualities, higher aspirations, are precisely what remains of the personal ego and this is the best part, the truly human being, sometimes called the 'spiritual aroma' and that part enters into a new state of consciousness:the devachan (deva=god, chan=world or place; hence: 'world of the gods' or 'heaven-world'), not so much a 'world'but a STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
It is an excalted dreamy state of spiritual fulfilment of all the ideals the personal ego cherished during lifetime and can also be seen as a kind of reward for undeserved miseries on earth. These miseries are a consequence of collective deeds and thoughts of the human race, so from the point of view of the personality these miseries are not deserved. Yet, being part of humanity, it cannot escape all the stupidities and violence in this world. Of course this includes its own follies as well.

It is not only that. It is also a state of weaving the spiritual elements in the character of the reincarnating ego - a ray of the parent monad: the higher human monad. The personal egoity (a bundle of energies, consciousness) is now dreaming-sleeping 'in the bosom of the higher human monad into which it is drawn up' - a sleep which can endure for many centuries. The higher human monad has its own activities, of course, in its own respective spheres of manifestation. Esoteric teachings state that this monad travels or moves in/trough the 'higher' planes or worlds connected to the earth-system and after that travels through the solar system in the bosom of the spiritual monad, visiting the seven sacred planets.
The kama rupa is now an 'astral corpse'.

In it's next eartly life the personal ego will commence with an improved character. So you see why it is important to know these things. You sow the seeds NOW for your next life. We determine the character of our next life partly by what we do now, by how we live now. How just this all is! How can we be different from what we make of our selves? We can't. Of course, collective karma plays an important role during our life and will do so during our next life. This can be no excuse however for not exercising one's own powers of the mind. Nor should this lead to indifference to the lot of others.

All the ancient peoples of the world believed in the reality of reincarnation and a majority in this world still does. Buddhists, Hindus, Druids, Celts, Britons, Gallics, Platonists, Pythagoreans, many gnostic Christians, are only some of the people that hold to this doctrine. Add the Inca and Maya civilizations, the old Egyptians, the Roman poets Vergil, Lucretius, Horatio, the Stoics, and the list is still not completed! Also the Jewish Sohar, the famous Kabbalistic book, contains references to reincarnation.

The Christian Bible contains some implicit references to this doctrine (see gospel of John(9)). The famous church father Origines was very familiar with this doctrine. Eusebius was one of the church fathers who helped to eliminate the doctrine of reincarnation from the Christian faith (which was more a sort of collection of sects). Needless to say that Nature doesn't go along with this decision..
Reincarnation is the 'lost thread' in our society. Understanding this key to life, together with that of Karma, would change fundamentally the way we live. It would bring some order in this chaotic world.

One question about reincarnation, namely: 'why don't we remember our past lives?' can be shortly answered here. The point is that we get a new brain in our new life. This new brain doesn't hold the memories of the past lives. Well, you could ask, where are these memories kept? Answer: in a certain part of the human constitution called the 'auric egg', and also in the astral light of our earth.
The astral light is the all pervading 'fluid' which was known among many mystics (Boehme, Swedenborg, etc.) and even to some of the scientists in former centuries, and, of course to sensitive people in our era. It is the 'magical agens', correlating all the forces of nature, carrier of our thought currents, elementals of nature and much more. The human will can exert a powerful influence on and through this light (see lit. #8, chapter V). The auric egg is composed of Akasha-Cosmic Aether- 'invisible' Light - a relatively conscious substance!
The more spiritual parts of the auric egg are composed of celestial light which is the building substance of our spirit; the less spiritual parts are composed of astral light, formative substance of our psyche. The auric egg is fundamental life. It also contains the karmic records of all our thoughts and deeds.. This will undoubtedly lead to many more questions and the best I can do is to refer the reader to the books of Blavatsky, Judge and De Purucker (lit. #3a,3b,7,8,9).

Another question about memories from previous lives is whether reincarnation therapy or hypnosis can help us to get these memories back. Esoteric teaching is quite clear to this: no, they won't. As to the 'memories' people experience during reincarnation therapy, these are most probably impressions from the astral light, or, to some extent, impressions from the therapist him/herself unconsciously projected into the aura of the client and unconsciously perceived by the client whilst in a state of regression.

Regarding hypnosis, it is stated in esoteric literature (lit. #7) that it can be dangerous to a person. Hypnosis brings about a temporary separation of the higher principles in our constitution (notably the higher aspects of the thinking faculty) and the lower principles. This is an unhealthy situation. Many people have suffered from participating as a volunteer in hypnotic shows. Needless to say, a very pure motive and wisdom are necessary attributes for the would-be therapist to exercise his/her mesmeric powers on others, in order that no impure thoughts enter the aura of the client!
Why don't we study the structure of the universe and especially man first, before we engage in such activities? The same advice applies to euthanasia. Are we wiser than nature? No! Using pain-killers is o.k., often already shortening the period of dying. But to actively end one's life by lethal injection is quite another thing.

The last ten years or so there has been a rising interest in so-called 'near-death-experiences'. Since I'm dealing with the topic of death and dying it seems pertinent to say a little bit on NDE.
Some people who had a NDE think they have seen deceased relatives. >From what I know from the esoteric philosophy I gather that these people have been experiencing their own images, pictures, of these deceased ones. Unaccustomed to the psychic (astral) world and its inhabitants it is easy to mistake thought-forms for live human beings. The deceased ones, however, do not remain in the kama-lokic sphere, which is after all but the dregs of the earth-sphere. They have long passed into devachan, normally speaking (i.e within a couple of months after physical death), which is more spiritual in nature. Their kama-rupa or astral remains may last for some time, maybe this is seen during NDE sometimes.

To end this section, we can ask ourselves what happens with the kama-rupa, the astral corpse, after the second death has taken place. Little is left of this corpse after second death. The lower desires are slowly dissipated, somewhat analogous to the afterglow of an electric stove when the electricity is switched off.
It disintegrates and the elements composing it return to their own realms; these elements just cycle back to the realms where they belong (earth to earth, water to water, air to air, fire to fire). These elements are not so much the earth, water, etc. we are accustomed to, but rather the root-substances which are used by nature to build the complex matter we call earth, water, air, etc. But that's an entirely other story.
The lower desires are destroyed in their form-aspect. There remain, however, impressions, karmic consequences ,'germs', in or on the astral light. Some of those germs are activated when the reincarnating ego manifests itself again in this world. Parallel with this the energies (working through these lower desires and astral forms) re-enter the auric egg of the personal ego which has entered devachan. See lit. #9 on the subject of skandhas and lit #3a, chapter on kama-loka and the second death.


For more...


http://www.vipassana.com/resources/dharmapala/an11.php


http://www.gnostickabbalah.com/Genesis/gen%2003a.html


http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-gdp4.htm

http://www.experiencefestival.com/kama-rupa


http://blavatskyarchives.com/deathml.htm

http://www.lcc.cc/mva/appendix1.PDF


http://www.yeatsvision.com/Theosophy.html

The Theosophists’ astral plane is experienced largely unconsciously in dream through the Desire Body by ‘a man of average intellectual development’, but is available to conscious experience ‘in the highly evolved man’ (SPM 23).

After death, the persistence of the Desire Body is analogous in many ways to that of the Husk or Passionate Body, since ‘the higher part of man dwells for a while in the desire-body’ entirely naturally and it will briefly continue independently beyond this as an emptied shell. In less evolved natures it may linger far longer as ‘an altogether objectionable entity, often spoken of as a ‘spook’’ (SPM 23), potentially haunting séance rooms and vampirising the energy of the living, and a similar phenomenon attends the persistence of the Husk or Passionate Body (see the After Life).

The Manas, in contrast, ‘is the immortal individual, the real ‘I,’ that clothes itself over and over again in transient personalities, and itself endures for ever’ (SPM 29), in which it has strong affinities with Yeats’s Spirit, the permanent, moving and determining Principle of the individual soul, which he refers to as ‘mind’ (AV B 187). Just as the Theosophists view Manas as having a dual allegiance during life, and often divide it into a lower and higher form, the former cleaving to Kama and the latter remaining a distinct part of the Spiritual Triad, so Yeats’s Spirit cleaves in life to the Passionate Body, and weans itself from the association during the first two stages of the after-life, until it then turns towards the Celestial Body. There is a major difference between the two systems, however: Theosophy treats the linkage between Manas and Kama as a necessary evil, since Manas ‘still requires experience, through its personalities, of the things of earth’ (SPM 37), but this Lower Manas is treated almost as a hostage of Kama and there is a struggle for supremacy between the higher and lower aspects, in which the higher is the only possible preference for the student of Theosophy; Yeats treats the immersion of Spirit within Passionate Body as the natural bias of incarnate life which is then relinquished during the after-life for the natural bias of discarnate life, and although, sub specie aeternitatis, the latter prevails, it is right for the living to devote their energies to the phenomenal world. At least for the antithetical person, to be ‘attracted by the vividness of the material life-impressions, swayed by the rush of the kamic emotions [i.e. from Kama], passions and desires, attracted to all material things, blinded and deafened by the storm-voices among which it is plunged’ (SPM 38) is not to be divorced from the spiritual reality but to be engaged in the proper activity of living. The spiritual asceticism of Theosophy is, for Yeats, a primary bias, which seeks to condemn the desire for worldly achievement and to subdue individuality:


The Seven Planes and the Principles Functioning Thereon
Principles Planes
1 Prana. Etheric Double. Dense Physical Body. Physical
2 Kama/Desire Body Astral
3 Manas/Human Soul Mental
4 Buddhi/Spiritual Soul Spiritual
5 Atman/Self Spiritual
6 X transcendent
7 X transcendent


[element] (cf. YVP 3 370) quarter later names
‘Planes’ ‘in a sense’
1 (Earth) Physical Physical Physical Body = 1st Husk
2 (Water) Passionate Passionate Passionate Body = 2nd Passionate Body
3 (Air) Spirits of Dead Spirits of Dead Spirit Body = 3rd Spirit
4 (Fire) Celestial Body Celestial Body Spiritual Body = 4th Celestial Body
5 Guides etc.
6 Angels
7 Invisible


http://www.yeatsvision.com/After.html


Life and the After-life
excerpt

During the first stage, at the Meditation, the ‘Husk and Passionate Body disappear’, but disappearance is subordination not erasure. The Husk survives in the Record, cast off like ‘the husk that is abandoned by the sprouting seed’ (AV B 191), and the Passionate Body is involved to some extent in the following stage, and necessary to it. This stage does, however, normally eliminate the Faculties, since Yeats later refers to ‘the Faculties having gone when the Husk and Passionate Body disappeared’ (AV B 227). Even the submersion of the two Lunar Principles may be incomplete, since they ‘may persist in some simulacrum of themselves’, as also may the two Lunar Faculties ‘the Mask and Will in primary phases’ though the reasons are not clear (AV B 224). When the Husk persists in this strong form, its hunger for perception also persists and it traps the Spirit in a sensuous state and together they become the material for ghosts, ‘a fading distortion of living man, perhaps a dangerous succuba or incubus’. As long as the Passionate Body has not disappeared, the Spirit is locked in ‘long and perhaps painful dreams of the past’ (AV B 224) in the Dreaming Back of the Return; the difference between this persistence and the Dreaming Back (which is an inevitable stage for the Spirit to absorb life’s experience properly) seems to lie in whether or not the Passionate Body is subordinated to the Spirit.

Both these forms of persistence produce ghostly phenomena, a subject of perennial fascination for Yeats, considered more fully in AV A than in AV B. Though many phenomena are products of after-life experience, necessary to the progress of the dead soul, these cases are regarded as undesirable, aberrant products of wrong thinking or a violent death which renders the individual incapable of recognising its true state: the Spirit trapped by its Husk is ‘the true ghost . . . . dangerous to the living and a hindrance to the dead’, sometimes witnessed by the living but not really dependent upon them and with no benefit to either party (AV A 228). Even within the normal course of spiritual progress, outworn Husks persist as discarded shells within the Record, incorporated into the fabric of Anima Mundi (AV A 222), and their memories may be retrieved either by the dead spirits or living mediums (AV A 250-51). In contrast to the abnormal adherence of the Husk, the Passionate Body’s persistence is regarded as an imbalanced variation of the natural process of the Dreaming Back (when the Spirit uses the Passionate Body as a memory through which to explore its life) and which accounts for ‘Most of the spirits at séances’ (AV A 226), those summoned or drawn by ties established during life, or who seek to use the living to achieve their catharsis. The scenario for the ‘ghosts’ of Swift and Vanessa in The Words upon the Window Pane appears to derive in part from this latter condition, since the ‘Swift’ ghost relives passion, guilt and memory, appears tied to the place, caught in the image of his body in old age, and the guide spirit comments that the ‘Bad old man does not know he is dead’ (VPl 951).

The Return also accounts for more spontaneous phenomena, ‘many hauntings, many inexplicable sights and sounds’ which actually form part of the healthy spiritual economy of interchange between dead and living, since they are provocations to the living to cause inquiries that help ‘the dreamer to perfect its knowledge’ in the Return (AV A 227-28). The object of the Return is the exploration and understanding of the life to its sources, in three connected processes: firstly, the sequential Return itself, which traces cause and consequence through time, and therefore with some objectivity; secondly, the Dreaming Back, which explores the ‘events that had most moved it’, and therefore entirely subjectively; and thirdly, the Phantasmagoria, which seeks to complete the implications of the life, extending them as far as they will go in themselves, without new material. This description of the process in A Vision B is undoubtedly more considered than that in A Vision A, where the Return is seen as comprising two conditions, ‘a Waking State and a Sleeping State which alternate’ (AV A 224), which are given subsidiary names of ‘phantasmagoria’ and ‘Dreaming Back’ respectively, but the nomenclature points to the Upanishadic parallels and emphasises how relatively close the consciousness of the dead is to that of the living.

The dead are reliant on their own memories and the living to achieve the goal of the Return as a whole. They can only achieve a certain proportion of their task through their own Principles, in conjunction with their Daimon and the intervention of Teaching Spirits, however, since there can be no new elements; if the ‘knot’ or equation requires a further element for its resolution, it must be sought through the living. The interrelation of the living and dead is fundamental to Yeats’s thinking, since the dead join the incarnate Daimon in the unconscious mind of the living, but whereas human and Daimon form a permanent symbiotic nexus, the dead are visitors, who come for a specific purpose and can range from mind to mind. During the Return, the living minds that the dead seek out are those which it has affected during life and primarily motivated by the search for data; Yeats considers the plight of a solitary ‘Robinson Crusoe’ without ‘even a Man Friday for witness’, who would be able ‘get the necessary information from his own Husk’ but, deprived of the minds of living associates, ‘his Dreaming Back would be imperfect’ (AV B 228n). Later on, in the fifth stage of the Purification, the links established between the spirits and the living are impersonal and determined by ‘some affinity of aim, or the command of the Thirteenth Cone’ (AV B 234) so that the inspiration offered is more abstract. The dead and the spirits also continue to be attached to their own Daimon during the after-life, and with a variety of other spirits in the non-physical world, ranging from those who are in the non-human lifetimes of the New Moon and Full Moon, the Teaching Spirits and other Spirits of the Thirteenth Cone, the unseen world is crowded with a complex economy of interaction. The living are compassed about not only with a great cloud of witnesses, but also of confederates, abettors and instigators, to run the race that is set before them. It is a fine distinction between inspiring action and originating it, but the inspiration of the dead can certainly lead to actions which would not otherwise have taken place; since the incarnate Daimon controls the access of the dead, it seems that such intervention cannot be harmful to the living person (though the Daimon can certainly bring danger), being at worst innocuous and at best inspiring great art or action.

Once the second stage of the Return is completed, the dead no longer require the aid of living minds, since ‘the events of the past life are a whole and can be dismissed’, the Lunar Principles are entirely purged and their essence is distilled within the Spirit’s intellect. Having drawn on its own memories and the minds of its living associates, however, the life is only whole within the value-system of ‘the code accepted during life’ (AV B 231), so that this must then be set in the wider context, particularly one devoid of good and evil, in the third stage of the Shiftings. However, this stage is analysed in an elusive way that is unsatisfying to the reader.

The first two stages (Meditation and Return) are dealt with in some detail, though the exposition is not always clearly set out and inevitably the subject matter leads to a certain nebulousness of expression. The following two states (Shiftings and Beatitude) are dealt with in a single section in AV B which are extremely compressed. The general tendencies are relatively clear, the shift of the Spirit’s association from the Passionate Body to the Celestial Body and increasing attachment to the latter, but the writing is allusive, often failing to clarify its references, and crabbed in its explanation of the processes envisioned. Yeats was clearly uncertain about the details, and these stages are those furthest removed from incarnate life, since the dead have no contact with the living and, centred on the Solar Spirit and Celestial Body alone, are in some ways the most abstract states.

It is evident that Yeats was more concerned with accuracy than fluency, since he had written more fully in AV A, and it is as if these states had previously been marked on the map with the features of travellers’ tales and logical but unconfirmed suppositions but are now marked as largely Terra Incognita.

In the Shiftings the Spirit is alone with the Celestial Body, which manifests directly, and the Husk and Passionate Body, roughly sensation and emotion, have now been shed, so that ‘there is no suffering’ in this exploration of amoral reality (AV B 232). In AV A it is clear that the dead spirit is seen as entering into a Daimonic existence, ‘for all now is intellect and he is all Daimon’ and ‘he thinks not as man thinks but as Daimon thinks’ (AV A 231), and Yeats also writes of the dead spirit communicating with the living through intermediaries. In AV B he appears to have rejected this thinking and confines himself to a truly cryptic sequence of phrases and references, so that the reader feels rebuffed and is probably more than ready to accept the inaccurate clarity of AV A in place of the rebarbative brevity of AV B :

The Spirit lives—I quote the automatic script—‘The best possible life in the worst possible surroundings’ or the contrary of this; yet there is no suffering: ‘For in a state of equilibrium there is neither emotion nor sensation’. In the limits of the good and evil of the previous life . . . [sic] the soul is brought to a contemplation of good and evil; ‘neither its utmost good nor its utmost evil can force sensation or emotion’. I remember MacKenna’s translation of the most beautiful of the Enneads, ‘The Impassivity of the Dis-Embodied’. This state is described as a true life, as distinguished from the preceding states; the soul is free in the sense that it is subject to necessary truth alone, the Celestial Body is described as present in person instead of through ‘Messengers’. (AV B 231-32)
A
few points are relatively clear, such as the absence of suffering, which is expanded by the idea of the dead spirit’s having reached a state of equilibrium, and it also follows that if sensation and emotion are dependent upon Husk and Passionate Body no extreme of good or evil can excite these in a being where they are absent. Good and evil must be transvalued, since they are largely dependent upon the Tinctures rather than absolute categories: the ‘antithetical tincture is noble, and, judged by the standards of the primary, evil, whereas the primary is good and banal’ (AV B 155), so that in reversing the polarities, the process is also completing the Tinctures with their opposite, and changing the motivation of or perspective upon action. Furthermore, the soul’s freedom appears to allude to the union of Spirit and Celestial Body, since the Celestial Body can be described as ‘necessary truth’, which may therefore be the definition of ‘a true life’.

[ 08-26-2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]
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Posts: 1756 | From: Pontiac, MI. Oakland | Registered: Mar 2005   
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2008, 11:06:13 pm »

 
KTCat

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   posted 08-26-2005 01:59 PM                       
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Unknown...Actually, there are instances all over the world where people have reported remembering their past lives without the aide of hypnosis. Such memories are far more common in places like India where the doctrine of reincarnation is an accepted truth, but there are many people in America and the rest of the world experiencing these memories as well. We Westerners have been trained to disregard all such recall as poppycock, but children don't know that yet, and many parents report their children speaking of "the time before."

I think perhaps there is "a ghost" in each of our souls that never forgets it's own eternal journey.

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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2008, 11:06:49 pm »

Mish

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  posted 08-26-2005 02:54 PM                       
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Unknown - Thanks. Gotta print that one to read more carefully! On the first reading however my thoughts went to my grandparents. My grandmother died two years ago from cancer. My grandfather was healthy at the time of her death, but died 4 months later in his sleep. It was obvious to everyone he had no interest in this life without gram. He didn't commit suicide, he just lost interest in this life and died peacefully. Your post explains nicely how that could have happened, Unknown.

Ishtar -I love the idea that ghosts from the future could be what people think of as UFOs!!! Awesome idea. The reason I wonder about why we don't see ghosts of the future because I am one of those headachey quantum people that believes that time is a sort of illusion imagined this way....if time is spread out along a long rug it seems to happen sequentially. But, if you push the rug (to simulate the contraction or expansion of our dynamic universe) it gets wrinkles in it and two normally different parts of the rug now touch... like multiple time periods colliding. If indeed this is the case (String Theory), it should stand to reason that we shouldn't just be able to onle glimpse the past, but the future just as easily. Hmmmmmmm. Yeah, don't worry, it gives me a headache too! :-)

Jennie - LOL about being thankful that ghosts wore clothes!!!! HA!! :-) I wonder if it is true that ghosts are sighted with their very last outfit on, or if they are just wearing a favorite item from their life... I've never really looked into that and it's a really good queston!
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2008, 11:07:18 pm »

 
unknown

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   posted 08-26-2005 03:22 PM                       
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I agree Cat, I have read many instances of children in Indian remembering their past lives accurately, remembering what town they used to live in going there and knowing the peoples names etc. many of these are well documented.

I think it is probable that some part of us remembers are former lives, are unconscious in the physical and our higher self in the spiritual.

As far as the philosophy stated in the post I think what they mean( or the way I take it) is that the personality we experience in are incarnation is only a small part of our larger eternal selves.

In other words we may have to purge certain unbalanced aspects of ourselves so these traits may be more pronounced in a lifetime so that we can overcome some negative aspect of ourselves.

[ 08-27-2005, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2008, 11:07:58 pm »

unknown

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   posted 08-26-2005 03:26 PM                       
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Mish

That is such a touching story, it happens so often when people have lived and loved together for a life time. I think this happens more often with husbands than with wives, I think perhaps because mothers will hold on longer for their children and grandchildren.

[ 08-26-2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: unknown ]

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