Time Travel - Original.........................................................

[Stacy Dohm]

Aristotle

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   posted 12-12-2004 12:04 AM                       
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Of course time travel exists. Most of you probably already believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Atlantis and Martians, what's time travel after all of that?
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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-12-2004 01:02 PM                       
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Well ya see Ari,its like this,
Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster survived the sinking of Atlantis and Martians were Atlanteans who came to earth via time travel,,,,,,,,,,,,, What now beatch?

 


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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 2003   

[Stacy Dohm]

Brig

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Rate Member   posted 12-12-2004 04:39 PM                       
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We see the stars, if the night is clear, and the sky appears full of them. Did you know that those stars you are looking at are actually the way those stars appeared from 4 to millions of years ago? What you see tonight is not the star of today, but of a bygone era. It takes the light of the nearest star 4.3 light years to reach earth. That means the light of that star began is journey over 4 years ago. You are actually seeing that star as it appeared 4.3 years ago. If that star were to explode (go Nova) tonight, it would be 4.3 years before we'd see the blast. The furthest stars that you can see, without a telescope, can be several thousand light years away; meaning of course that we are seeing them as they looked several thousand years ago. So this boils down to the fact that we already are looking into the past. In theory, if we had an instrument sensitive enough, we could see planets around those stars and oceans on the planets and possibly even people or some such facsimilie; BUT, we would be seeing them as they were several thousand years ago because we are looking into the past. Seeing the past is theoritically possible, but physically going there is a whole different matter. When you get into the realm of multiple universes; you are defeating the whole purpose of time travel in the first place. Best just dimension hop and be done with it. Once you find your ideal dimension, settle down and enjoy it. But dimension hopping makes time travel moot.
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Posts: 9837 | From: Old Washington, Ohio , USA | Registered: Apr 2002   

[Stacy Dohm]

 
Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-12-2004 04:43 PM                       
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quote,
Best just dimension hop and be done with it. Once you find your ideal dimension, settle down and enjoy it.
I hope I find mine, cause it sure is not this one.

But dimension hopping makes time travel moot.

ummmhmmmm



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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 
 

[Stacy Dohm]

 
Nemesis1

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   posted 12-12-2004 09:55 PM                       
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Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that."
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In the future, I will be proved right about EVERYTHING!! I feel absolutely vindicated reading this. I guess it will take a CIVIL WAR to get everyone to listen to me. 



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Posts: 221 | Registered: Oct 2004 
 

[Stacy Dohm]

Nemesis1

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   posted 12-12-2004 09:58 PM                       
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quote:
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Best just dimension hop and be done with it. Once you find your ideal dimension, settle down and enjoy it.
I hope I find mine, cause it sure is not this one.


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Spiritwalker, I told you not to vote for Bush.



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Posts: 221 | Registered: Oct 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Jennie McGrath

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   posted 12-12-2004 10:23 PM                       
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Guys, hate to keep bringing up the aliens (again), but there is, of course, one school of thought that says they are simply "us" in the future, come back to witness human development. It's possible. Certainly explains how they are able to bridge such large distances in those little ships: the flying saucers are time machines, not long range cruisers!
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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Archangel

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   posted 12-12-2004 10:49 PM                       
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Why time travel is possible
John Gribbin

Physicists have found the law of nature which prevents time travel paradoxes, and thereby permits time travel. It turns out to be the same law that makes sure light travels in straight lines, and which underpins the most straightforward version of quantum theory, developed half a century ago by Richard Feynman.

Relativists have been trying to come to terms with time travel for the past seven years, since Kip Thorne and his colleagues at Caltech discovered -- much to their surprise -- that there is nothing in the laws of physics (specifically, the general theory of relativity) to forbid it. Among several different ways in which the laws allow a time machine to exist, the one that has been most intensively studied mathematically is the "wormhole". This is like a tunnel through space and time, connecting different regions of the Universe -- different spaces and different times. The two "mouths" of the wormhole could be next to each other in space, but separated in time, so that it could literally be used as a time tunnel.

Building such a device would be very difficult -- it would involve manipulating black holes, each with many times the mass of our Sun. But they could conceivably occur naturally, either on this scale or on a microscopic scale.

The worry for physicists is that this raises the possibility of paradoxes, familiar to science fiction fans. For example, a time traveller could go back in time and accidentally (or even deliberately) cause the death of her granny, so that neither the time traveller's mother nor herself was ever born. People are hard to describe mathematically, but the equivalent paradox in the relativists' calculations involves a billiard ball that goes in to one mouth of a wormhole, emerges in the past from the other mouth, and collides with its other self on the way in to the first mouth, so that it is knocked out of the way and never enters the time tunnel at all. But, of course, there are many possible "self consistent" journeys through the tunnel, in which the two versions of the billiard ball never disturb one another.

If time travel really is possible -- and after seven years' intensive study all the evidence says that it is -- there must, it seems, be a law of nature to prevent such paradoxes arising, while permitting the self- consistent journeys through time. Igor Novikov, who holds joint posts at the P. N. Lebedev Institute, in Moscow, and at NORDITA (the Nordic Institute for Theoretical Physics), in Copenhagen, first pointed out the need for a "Principle of Self-consistency" of this kind in 1989 (Soviet Physics JETP, vol 68 p 439). Now, working with a large group of colleagues in Denmark, Canada, Russia and Switzerland, he has found the physical basis for this principle.

It involves something known as the Principle of least action (or Principle of minimal action), and has been known, in one form or another, since the early seventeenth century. It describes the trajectories of things, such as the path of a light ray from A to B, or the flight of a ball tossed through an upper story window. And, it now seems, the trajectory of a billiard ball through a time tunnel. Action, in this sense, is a measure both of the energy involved in traversing the path and the time taken. For light (which is always a special case), this boils down to time alone, so that the principle of least action becomes the principle of least time, which is why light travels in straight lines.

You can see how the principle works when light from a source in air enters a block of glass, where it travels at a slower speed than in air. In order to get from the source A outside the glass to a point B inside the glass in the shortest possible time, the light has to travel in one straight line up to the edge of the glass, then turn through a certain angle and travel in another straight line (at the slower speed) on to point B. Travelling by any other route would take longer.

The action is a property of the whole path, and somehow the light (or "nature") always knows how to choose the cheapest or simplest path to its goal. In a similar fashion, the principle of least action can be used to describe the entire curved path of the ball thrown through a window, once the time taken for the journey is specified. Although the ball can be thrown at different speeds on different trajectories (higher and slower, or flatter and faster) and still go through the window, only trajectories which satisfy the Principle of least action are possible. Novikov and his colleagues have applied the same principle to the "trajectories" of billiard balls around time loops, both with and without the kind of "self collision" that leads to paradoxes. In a mathematical tour de force, they have shown that in both cases only self-consistent solutions to the equations satisfy the principle of least action -- or in their own words, "the whole set of classical trajectories which are globally self-consistent can be directly and simply recovered by imposing the principle of minimal action" (NORDITA Preprint, number 95/49A).

The word "classical" in this connection means that they have not yet tried to include the rules of quantum theory in their calculations. But there is no reason to think that this would alter their conclusions. Feynman, who was entranced by the principle of least action, formulated quantum physics entirely on the basis of it, using what is known as the "sum over histories" or "path integral" formulation, because, like a light ray seemingly sniffing out the best path from A to B, it takes account of all possible trajectories in selecting the most efficient.

So self-consistency is a consequence of the Principle of least action, and nature can be seen to abhor a time travel paradox. Which removes the last objection of physicists to time travel in principle -- and leaves it up to the engineers to get on with the job of building a time machine.


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http://www.biols.susx.ac.uk/home/John_Gribbin/Time_Travel.html#time_travel_possible


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Posts: 148 | Registered: Aug 2004

[Stacy Dohm]

Morrison

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   posted 12-12-2004 11:11 PM                       
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In one reality, JFK was never shot, and maybe Bush never becomes president.
There can't be a war in 2036 because the world is going to end in 2012, right? Anyway, Titor's isn't the only time travel story. They say that the Philadelphia Experiment was also the navy's attempt at time travel, too. That's an old story, but here's a quote on it for those who don't know what I'm talking about, like, perhaps, Stacy:


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However, others claim that the experiment took place on October 28, 1943. Substantial evidence points to the October date as being more accurate. The Navy has released the Eldridge's deck log and war diary and at no time was the Eldridge in Philadelphia. However, the records could have easily been changed.
The Eldridge's war diary reads as such: The Eldridge remained in New York and the Long Island Sound until September 16, when it left for Bermuda. From September 18 to
October 15, it underwent training and sea trials. On October 18, it left in a convoy for New York and remained there until November 1. From November 1 to the 2, it went on a convoy to Norfolk and on November 3 left in a convoy for Casablanca. The Eldridge arrived in Casablanca on November 22 and stayed there until November 29, when it left for New York again in another convoy. The Eldridge arrived in New York on December 17.

From December 17 to December 31, it traveled to Norfolk with four other ships
(Department of the Navy). Although this is not the entire war log, it is the log of the ship during the suspected time the experiment took place (October 28, as mentioned above).

It would seem that the Navy never did experiments on the Eldridge at any time, but the government has been known to cover up because of national security before. An example of such a situation would be the Manhattan project. This secret project was the building of the atomic bomb and no word was ever said about it until it was obvious that we had an atomic bomb.

The Navy, in a search for a plausible answer, has suggested that perhaps the Philadelphia Experiment was confused with experiments done attempting invisibility to magnetic mines. This was a process known as degaussing.

But the ship was gone from the harbor for about 4 hours, not just a few minutes. Legend has it that the ship was transported through space and time. It arced through Space/Time.

Four hours later it returned to its original place. There was a greenish haze on deck. Some of the sailors were on fire. Some seemed insane. All were sick. Some had heart attacks. Some were dead. Some were part of the super structure of the ship, buried in the deck or walls of the ship. Some reports said that men just seemed to disappear and were never seen again.


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http://www.crystalinks.com/phila.html

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Posts: 391 | From: New England | Registered: Oct 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-13-2004 10:35 AM                       
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Nemesis, Nemesis, Nemesis, I never said I was going to vote for Bush or for anyone for that matter.
I just like to play devils advocate, so people will not see issues as either black or white, you know your views are somewhat ummmm , dare i say , " bullheaded", at times,  ,

you are so eager to vilify Bush, sometimes you lack discernment, we need to learn to see both sides, When we see that someone has made a good point ,or totally debunked our information, we should give them credit.

I doubt that it matters much who is in office.

Perhaps everything is preordained, after all.

Jennie I am reading Ezekiel again, just for you.


One thing I noticed is this passage, which reminds me of telepathy,

2 He said to me: O mortal, stand up on your feet, and I will speak with you.

2And when he spoke to me,

"a spirit"

entered

into me and set me on my feet; and

I heard him speaking to me.

Now, could the spirit entering him have been similar to an, inner voice or, an inner knowing, or similar to telepathy? I experienced this once when I heard my inner voice tell me to go outside, "we are here," and saw three UFO's, there was no fear but a sense of calm, I was not even shocked or in awe of the experience, I seemed unnaturally calm, and I am not a calm person I scare easy.

I went back in the house like "no big deal', hey kids, I just saw three UFO's and that was it.

Three glowing amber globes, darting close to one another, very far up in the sky, and when I turned away for a split second, they totally disappeared.

PS. I am not on medication , 

YET

[This message has been edited by Spiritwalker (edited 12-13-2004).]


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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 2003   

[Stacy Dohm]

Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-13-2004 04:22 PM                       
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http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/ISBE/ID/8640
Telabib, a heap of new grain and the river Chebar could be a canal.

Verse 1. Eat this roll, and go speak

Verse 3. It was in my mouth as honey

the Tree of Life, the Cross, the Golden Bough, the Forbidden Fruit, the Blood of Christ, the Blood of Dionysos, the Holy Grail (or rather its contents), the Chalice (Kalyx: 'flower cup'), the Golden Flower (Chrysanthemon), Ambrosia (Ambrotos: 'immortal'), Nectar (Nektar: 'overcomes death'), the Sacred Lotus, the Golden Apples, the Mystic Mandrake, the Mystic Rose, the Divine Mushroom (teonanacatl), the Divine Water Lily, Soma, Ayahuasca ('Vine of the Soul'), Kava, Iboga, Mama Coca and Peyote Woman.
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/shamanism_and.html
http://www.evcforum.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000050.html


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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 2003   

[Stacy Dohm]

Jennie McGrath

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   posted 12-13-2004 09:33 PM                       
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Hey Nemesis,
I have your next post for you: BUSH, BUSH, BUSH!!! SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCKS!!!!

There, that should give you some good ideas. I didn't vote for him, either, in fact, I didn't vote for anyone!!! Know that that will prob'ly shock you.

Spiritwalker,

Loved your alien story and your insight into Ezekiel. Hey, didn't you also owe me another alien story for my Nordic thread, or was that it?

Aliens are the answer to everything, man...


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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Stacy Dohm

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   posted 12-13-2004 10:52 PM                       
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Guys, this has all been very interesting, but does anyone have any "practical" information on time travel, like have any time machines ever been built? Have there ever been any images of people stuck in time warps or anything like that? That's sort of the stuff I was looking for, I already know about Titor and the Philadelphia Experiment and that sort of stuff.
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Posts: 341 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004   

[Stacy Dohm]

Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-14-2004 11:55 AM                       
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TY, Jennie and yes that is my only story on UFO's.
Stacy, sorry I don't have any info on it but I did hear on the news a few days ago that someone, somewhere, has had some success with teleportating something.......lol

I can't remember much about it but it was on Fox I think so you might want to search their archives.

how old are you guys?

Jennnie , Stacy, Nemesis.

[This message has been edited by Spiritwalker (edited 12-14-2004).]


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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 2003   

[Stacy Dohm]

 
Spiritwalker
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Rate Member   posted 12-14-2004 11:58 AM                       
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http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/australia_teleport_020618.html
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Posts: 1616 | From: qwnfd | Registered: Dec 2003