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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean

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dhill757
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« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2007, 06:07:27 pm »


The Ancient Conspiracy


The reader may wonder what proof do we have to substantiate our of a conspiracy of the ancients to hide the whereabouts of Atlantis-Eden? The ancients well knew the true site of Eden or, more exactly, of the ancestral Paradise whence we all came from, and which was the site where Mankind and Civilization first started. And they also knew that this paradisial region was destroyed by the Flood at precisely the date given by Plato, that of 11,600 years ago.


But they could not tell its true location, for this was the matter of the secret of the ancient Mysteries, and this divulgation was considered a grievous crime of profanation, often punished with death, as in the case of Socrates and, possibly of Plato himself. So, the true location of Paradise was only dealt in a sort of coded language based on allegories, riddles and puns that were intelligible only to the initiated in those secrets.


Well, the evidence we gave above is just a small sample of several hundreds of compelling evidences like the ones we present below and elsewhere. Our strongest evidences for Atlantis and its true location in the Far East are both geological and anthropological. They include racial characteristics, blood types, myths, traditions, customs, techniques, artistic motifs and, above all, the linguistic, cultural and religious affinities. The last two are just about the strongest and most unequivocal of all links between different nations derived from a single stock.


In an article parallel to this one we present the philological comparison of the Guanche language to Dravida, the sacred, pristine language of the Dravidian populations of India. As can be seen in that article, the two languages, though isolated from each other by untold millennia, are remarkably similar both in phonetics and in grammar. No serious linguist will idly dismiss the cogent parallels we present there, particularly as the linguistic affiliation of the Guanche tongue is an unsolved riddle so far.


For reasons of space and scope, these two articles are kept concise and non-technical. But even then, we believe that the evidence presented is compelling enough to convince all that take the trouble to follow them in detail. Moreover, as we just said, there are simply no viable alternative theories that explain the riddle of Guanche origins in a satisfactory way. In our view - which we argue in detail here and elsewhere - this people formerly lived in Indonesia or, more exactly, in the now sunken portion of it which now forms the South China Sea. When their land sunk away, at the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age, they were forced out by the cataclysm, and moved to the Canaries, possibly in the wake of other seafaring nations such as the proto-Phoenicians and proto-Cretans.


The Twin Ethiopias of Homer and Others


From earliest times - as instanced in Homer, Hesiod, Herodotus and elsewhere - the Greeks spoke of two Ethiopias placed at the two opposite ends of the world. One corresponded to the region near Gibraltar we are presently discussing, and the other one was located beyond the Ocean (Indian), in Taprobane (Indonesia). The idea of "burnt faces" (aethi-opes) connected with the Ethiopia is not indeed an allusion to the dark coloration of this people, but to the fact that they were expelled from their homeland as the result of the fiery cataclysm that sunk Atlantis away. This catastrophe was indeed caused by the giant volcanic conflagration of Mt. Atlas, which mythically "charred" their physiognomies. In reality, this darkening was the result of the admixture with the darker neighboring nations of Indonesia, precisely as reported by Plato and others.


Emigrating from the charred remains of their sunken continent - the formerly paradisial Land of the Dead that would later become the Islands of the Blest - the Canarians (and other Atlantean nations as well) moved to the opposite side of the world, where they would attempt to rebuild their lost Paradise. Hence, the twin Ethiopias of Homer and others, and the duplicity of Pillars of Hercules, of Mt. Atlases, of Gardens of Hesperia, and so on.


Even the Ocean that encircled the earth with its ring was likewise parted into two complementary moieties ascribed to the omnipresent Atlanteans. More exactly, it was parted into two parts, one which we now call Atlantic Ocean, as did the ancients, and an eastern half that had its name changed from Atlantic Ocean into Indian (or Erythraean) Ocean. This name, which means "red" in Greek, is the mystic name of the Atlantean peoples such as the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, and even the Guanches themselves. Indeed, the "Reds" are the Chams or Chamites of the Bible, a name not unconnected with the red races just mentioned and with that of the Guanches as well.2


The Atlantis of the Orient


Many authoritative writers of antiquity place Mt. Atlas and the Atlanteans, along with the Garden of the Hesperides in the Far Occident, in the region of Mauritania and the Canaries. But no lesser authorities than Hesiod and Eurypides, among many others, place Atlas and his Pillar of Heaven in the Far Orient, at the extremities of the world and of the day, where we also find the other legendary islands associated with Atlantis and its foundering.


The Hesperides (or Atlantides) were the seven daughters and lovers of Atlas. Atlas, the Pillar of Heaven, was the personification of Mt. Atlas, just as his seven beloved daughters were the ones of the Seven Atlantic Islands that figure in many traditions, and which are no other than the ones of Indonesia. It is only natural that the giant would want to place his girls right next to the place where he stayed up the heavens, for carnal reasons, if not prompted by fatherly love. Hence, the Garden of the Hesperides of the Far Occident in an illusion not unlike the "Mt. Atlas" of Mauritania or its Canarian replica, the Teyde (or Teide) volcano.


The Mt. Atlas of Mauritania, the one we know under that name, is not indeed a volcano, and, hence, cannot at all explain the traditions concerning the conflagrative destruction of Atlantis and the fall of the former heaven when its Holy Mountain collapsed. If Mt. Atlas indeed collapsed - as volcanoes are wont to do after gigantic explosions - and if Atlantis sunk along with its environing lands, how are we to expect to find its mountain unscathed, as is the case of Mt. Teyde in the Canaries, and of Mt. Atlas, its Mauritanian counterpart.


Theopompos' Atlanteans and the Mysterious Hanebut


It is time to return to Theopompos and his cryptic Atlanteans. The "red mist" that beclouded the Meropean continent is another traditional feature that we systematically encounter in the legends concerning such mysterious regions. Ultimately, the dark "mist" is the smoke cloud that resulted from the volcanic cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis and which, indeed, blocked away sunlight, obscuring the entire region for a large time.


This darkening of the sun is a sad reality, well known to the inhabitants of the region of Indonesia, volcanically the most active in the whole world. In Hindu myths, the city associated with the cataclysmic explosion and the smoke cover is called Dhumadi. This name means "Covered by Smoke", in Sanskrit. This etym (or etymon or etymology) closely recalls the legend of Sodom and Gomorra, likewise covered by a pillar of smoke "that rose up to the very skies".


Indeed, Dhumadi was the archetype of Atlantis and, as we explain elsewhere, of Sodom and Gomorra and other such cities destroyed by a volcanic conflagration. In Egypt we encounter the same tradition under the name of the mysterious Hanebut. The name means, in Egyptian, "the Dwellers of the Misty Regions".


The Hanebut were a real people, and their region was frequently visited by the Egyptians, who traded with them across the ocean. As the Egyptians only sailed the Indian Ocean, it is clear that the region in question lay beyond that ocean, in the region of Indonesia. It was there that the mysterious country of the nebulous Cimmerians was located, as well as the Pillars of Hercules and, more exactly, those of Atlas as well. Plato places Atlantis just in front of the Pillars of Hercules. So do many other ancient authors, disguising its true identity under names such as Cimmeria, Hades, Taprobane, Cassia, Punt and Hanebut.

http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243-2.html

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« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2007, 06:09:16 pm »

The Celts and the Elusive Cimmerians


In Homer and others, such peoples that lived in perpetual, smoky darkness, were called Cimmerians. The Cimmerians or their equivalents are a recurrent feature of all traditions. The Germans and the Celts also spoke of such a misty region, which they called by the name of Nefelheim, "the Abode of Mist".


The Nephilim - the fallen Titans or Giants of the Bible, whose sin with the Daughters of Men led to the cataclysm of the Flood - in all probability derive their name from a radix neph meaning "nebula", "mist", as in the Greek nephele, the German nefel, the Sanskrit nabha, the Dravida nep, etc. Even in Egyptian we encounter the radix in the name of the Hanebut (or Hau-nebhu-t).


Homer (Od. X:508; XI:14) tells how the Cimmerians lived "enshrouded in mist and perpetual darkness which the sun never pierces". He places their region in Hades, beyond the Ocean, next to Mt. Erebus. Erebus is the very entrance to Hell, the terrible chasm left behind when Mt. Atlas foundered underseas, becoming a giant volcanic caldera.


The Celts are the Cimmerians of Taprobane (Sumatra)
The Cimmerians are deemed to be the ancestors of the Celts and the Scythians, two other races of blond, blue-eyed, gigantic Ethiopians. They are identified with the Cymry or Cimbri, a Germanic tribe which invaded Rome and almost defeated the empire at about 100 BC. The Cimmerians were deemed to have come from the Palus Maeotis, a legendary region often connected with the sinking of Atlantis (palus = "marshes", in Latin).

One of the triads of the Celtic Mabinogion tells how:



"Hu Gadarn originally came with the tribe of the Cymry to the Britannic Isles. They came from the Country of Summer, which is called Defrobani... They crossed the Misty Ocean (Tawch) and arrived in the Britannic Isles and Armorica, where they settled."

Here is direct evidence that the Cimmerian Celts (Cymry) indeed came from Taprobane (Sumatra), here misspelt as Defrobani. The Country of Summer (Gwlad or Haf) can only be situated at the Equator and can hardly be identified with the Hyperborean regions of the Far North, where this people also settled after fleeing their destroyed homeland. Hu Gadarn is the Celtic equivalent of Noah and of Aeneas, leading his people away from their destroyed Paradise, into the Promised Land.
Indeed, the Hyperborea whence the Celto-Iberians originally came is the realm of Apollo (the Sun), "the land beyond the Boreas". And the mythical Land of the Sun can hardly be believed to lie in the Arctic or, even less, in the Antarctic regions, as some authors will.

Actually, the Hyperboreans were held to live in the mysterious Thule, the divide of the world that lay beyond the ocean. And the word Ocean meant, for the ancients, the Indian Ocean, and never the Atlantic, which they never sailed. Thule is the same as the island of Long-Lived Ethiopians. And these Ethiopians are indeed the Hyperboreans, both legendary races being identical in being composed of tall, blond, blue-eyed Ethiopians. Both lived in the far off region of Taprobane (Indonesia), a place, the above authorities add, "which lies beyond the Aquilon".


Boreas Is Not Indeed the North Wind That Blows From The Alps
Boreas is not indeed the North Wind that blows from the Alps into Mediterranean Europe, but a figuration of the monsoon winds that blow in the northern regions of Indonesia. The name of Boreas given to the North Wind that blows in the chilly regions beyond the Alps is a replica, a "mirror image" of the true Indonesian archetype. The Hindus worship Boreas, the North Wind, under the name of Varaha (or Vayu), from whose name that of Boreas ultimately derives.

So, the mythical Hyperboreans, the mysterious "peoples that live beyond the Boreal winds" are not those who lived in the Alps, above Europe, but the ones who lived beyond the monsoon winds that blow in the northern coasts of Indonesia and nearby regions. This fact is attested by too many ancient authorities to be dismissed easily, except by solid contrary evidence

The reality of the North European Hyperboreans could never be established in realistic bases, and their postulation has only led to paradoxes and difficulties. But when we accept the assertions of Pliny, Solinus and other authorities such as the ones we have been quoting, everything starts to make sense. Besides, how could Apollo, the Sun god, make his abode in the gelid Alps, instead of the equatorial Indonesia, the true Island of the Sun of the ancients?


Pliny, Boreas, and the Hyperboreans

Now, the Aquilon is the Latin name of the North Wind, the very same one that the Greeks called by the name of Boreas. Here, it is identified with the monsoon winds of the East Indies. Hence, we see that the true location of Hyperborea or Thule was the island of Taprobane, the true abode of the blest, long-lived Ethiopians. The passage of Pliny (Hist. Nat. 4:26) on the Hyperboreans is worth quoting:



"Beyond the Aquilon one finds a blessed nation called, according to tradition, the Hypeboreans. Among them, men reach an extreme age. Many marvels are told of this people. Some say that the hinges of the world and the limit of the course of the stars lie in their region... The country is bathed in sunlight and enjoys a pleasant temperature..."
"Discord is there ignored, and so is disease. People there do not die but from the satiety of living. After a festive banquet, full of the joys of old age, the one who wants to die jumps into the seas from a lofty rock. Such is for them the happiest way to die. One cannot doubt the reality of this country, described by many authorities."


Pliny, in the above passage, also adds that Hyperborea was the realm of Apollo and that the Hyperboreans sent, from the island of Delos, the first-fruits of their crops to Greece, to be dedicated to the Sun God. The descriptions of Hyperborea in the many authors mentioned by Pliny are indeed those of a tropical Paradise not unlike the Garden of Eden and the Islands of the Blest. When one pauses to ponder, there is only one place in the world that fits the description of Atlantis, of Eden, Aztlan, Atala, and of other such Paradises turned Hell. That place can only be the Indies, as can be surmised from the dozens of traditional accounts. A posteriori, this conclusion of ours is so obvious it hurts.

Apollo and the Hyperboreans
It is interesting to note that Plato, in his detailed description of Atlantis, makes an obscure reference to the lofty rocks from which the Blest Ethiopians used to throw themselves into the waves, in an immitation of the primordial deed of Atlas and Hesperus, who also fell from such a lofty cliff. Actually, these cliffs were the legendary Leucades, whose name is a reference to their being covered by the white bones of the dead who went by throwing themselves from their tops.3

Pliny's Hyperborea also evokes the description of the island of Emain Abalach (Avalon) in Celtic poems. There:



Treason is there unknown and so is sadness.
There no pain, no regret, no death, no grief,
No disease, no weakness, ever afflict anyone.
For such is the fortune of Emain.

Another a similar Celtic poem adds:


What a wonderful country is this one!
There the young never grow old at all!


What is to be retained from the above discussion is the fact that Avalon, Hyperborea, Thule, Taprobane, Eden, Paradise, Emain Abalach, the Garden of the Golden Apples, the Garden of Idun and so on are all one and the same thing. Their connection with the "first fruits" is an allegoric reference to the fact that Atlantis was indeed the very first site of human civilization, the same as the legendary Paradise or Garden of Eden.
These pleasant, luxurious gardens all lay at the extremity of the world which, from the Celtic perspective in Brittany, could only be the antipodal Indonesia, located on the side of the world opposite to their own misty islands. This Paradise was destroyed by a cataclysm, and they were forced to leave it, emigrating to the far Occident, under the leadership of Hu Gadarn, the Celtic Noah, the Judeo-Christian hero of the Flood.

The sinking of this realm is told in the legend of the Flooding of Ys, another central tradition of Celtic mythology. And their sunken Paradise became the Land of the Dead, the "Tomb of Glass" (Glastonbury) or "Island of Glass" (Ynis Wydr) that we encounter so often in their Celtic legends. This dismal Hades is the same as the Cimmeria of the Greeks, the Hanebut of the Egyptians, the Sheol of the Jews and the Nefelheim of the Germanic Nations.


How the Guanches Got to the Canaries

Many writers who investigated the problem of the Guanches were puzzled by the fact that the natives of the Canaries detested the sea, and never sailed it at all. So, it is pertinent to ask, after them, how did the Guanches get to the isolated Canaries in the first place? The answer seems to be rather simple, after all. They were brought as passengers in the ships of seafaring peoples such as the Phoenicians, the Etruscans, the Minoan Cretans, and so forth. Indeed, the ancient records are full of references to the "ships of Tarshish" being used by passengers and migrants of several different nations.

When the White Ethiopians who survived the Atlantean cataclysm emigrated to the distant Occident in their ships - under the guidance of admirals like Aeneas, Hercules, Phoroneos, and Hu Gadarn and, perhaps, Noah, Canopus and Jason - they settled in colonies along the way, on every coast and every island that looked promising. The legends are certainly founded in actual fact, and these fleets of ocean worth vessels are the ones allegorized as the Ark of Noah in the Bible or as the Argonavis in Greek legends.

It was thus that Mauritania was settled by the Berbers, Lebanon by the Phoenicians, Crete by the Minoans, Italy by the Etruscans, the British Islands and Brittany by the Celts and, of course, the Canaries by the Guanches. Many of these emigrants were, as is usually the case, mere passengers who never knew how to sail or, even less, how to design and build sea-worthy ships strong enough to sail the open, rough ocean, a feat very hard to accomplish in antiquity. Such huge sailships - the "ships of Tarshish" of Biblical traditions - are attested from remotest antiquity, for instance in the Gerzean ceramics of pre-Dynastic Egypt, which date from about 5,500 BP or so.

In this way, the Guanches were stranded on the Canaries, and the enigma which has defied solution for millennia is naturally explained. The ancient peripluses like those of Hanno and Himilco relate similar expeditions and even the establishment of such insular colonies. Such is also the meaning of myths like the one of Aeneas and his fleet fleeing from the destroyed, sunken Troy or, also, of the Biblical relate of Noah and his clan repeopling the Islands of the Nations, and founding the different nations of mankind.

http://istina.rin.ru/eng/ufo/text/243-3.html
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« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2007, 07:18:43 pm »

The Rock - Gibraltar



 
Gibraltar is a British colony located on a peninsula at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea. It is roughly five km long and one km wide. It borders on the Spanish town of La Linea located in the South of Spain. We elected to stay in La Linea due to the high cost of accomodation in Gibraltar.


Gibraltar is self governing today and is only dependent on Britain for defence. It is the only British colony on the European mainland. Gibraltar has several attractions that are well worth visiting. The rock itself has two packs of apes. One of which can be seen every day at the Ape's Den and the other pack lives wild on the rock. At the top of the rock there are fabulous views of Gibraltar and the north coast of Morocco. 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/pjdavis/gibraltar.htm
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« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2007, 07:21:38 pm »

HERE ARE PICTURES OF GIBRALTAR

This small, but strategically placed country is fiercely owned by England. They refuse to give it up, and it is a major thorn in English/Spanish relations. It has a huge network of tunnels and caves which have been used for defense througout history - protecting whatever nation occupied it at the time. (Usually England.) The caves were readied for a hospital during the World War in the 1940s, but thankfully never used. Part of the "hospital" space is now used as an underground theater (St. Michael's Caves) for operas, plays, concerts, etc. The Seige Tunnels are open for touring and are quite interesting. There is a related museum which we had to skip, but I think it is worth a visit. There are Moorish Baths here, and many other historical sites. The old town is very unique with its "streets" of walkways w/stairs. Many of the ancient fortress walls have survived, incorporated into the town buildings. Get a guide book and go and visit for a day. It's a great experience! Here's Gibraltar's Tourism Site.

NOTE: money is the Gibraltar pound. English pounds can be used, too. Spanish pesetas are accepted, but at a worse exchange rate. All shops are duty free on all items except liquor, tobacco, perfume. The town was packed when we visited - not with tourists - with Christmas shoppers from Spain and other nearby countries! If you want to picnic on one of the beaches, hit the Safeway (follow signs) next to the McDonald's (can't escape them anywhere in Europe). It's huge and an adventure in its own right!



Almost ready to cross from Spain to the Rock of Gibraltar. You can see it in the background. It was once known as one of the "Pillars of Hercules" and believed that to sail beyond it into the Atlantic was to invite certain death. That old "falling off the edge of the earth myth."



The harbor between Gib (as the locals refer to it) and Spain. The airstrip was built right out into the water and you have to drive across it to get onto the Rock.


The girls' favorite day - they got to pet these Barbary Apes. There are signs posted which warn against feeding them, as they might bite. We didn't see the signs until after we had already touched them .... They were quite friendly and liked to have their ears scratched. They were a little rude, as one peed on the car, and another "mooned" us! They ate bread, but really loved chocolate chip cookies.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.munnwerks.com/spain99/gibraltar.html

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« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2007, 07:26:48 pm »

More on Gibraltar:





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« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2007, 07:30:50 pm »



Gibraltar tunnels:



These are some awesome shots of Gibraltar, which the Atlantean navy would have had to pass through in order to invade the Mediterranean, the "Pillars of Hercules."

A complete Gibraltar photo gallery:

http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/gibraltar.htm
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 07:37:13 pm by dhill757 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2007, 07:34:31 pm »

Cape Verde



The Cape Verde Islands are half-way between Machupicchu and the Great Pyramid, fifty miles north of the line of ancient sites. These islands are also half-way between Easter Island and the Indus Valley. When the Cape Verde Islands were rediscovered by European mariners in 1460 they were found to be uninhabited. However, islands in this location are found on earlier maps and described as inhabited in ancient times.

The Mecia de Viladestes map of 1413 shows islands at this location labeled Gades. The information in this map is thought to have come from Roman sources dating back to the first century AD. The Discoveries of the World from their first originall unto the yeere of our Lord 1555, written by Antonio Galvao in 1563, lists the ancient names for the Cape Verde Islands as the Dorcades, Hesperides and the Gorgades. A 1587 map by Richard Hakluyt also labels the Cape Verde Islands as the Gorgades and the Hesperides.

In ancient Greek Mythology, the Island of Atlantis was given to Poseidon. Atlas was Poseidon's son and the first king of Atlantis. The seven daughters of Atlas were known as the Atlantides. Because their mother was named Hesperis, they were also known as the Hesperides.


http://home.hiwaay.net/~jalison/capev.html
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« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2007, 07:41:54 pm »

http://www.maltastar.com/pages/msDossierDetailN.asp?id=10483&po=2

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Why Did The Med Dry Up?
25 June 2003 - Prof Victor Axiak*



Last week we had a collective dry nightmare of the Mediterranean Sea drying up. We saw how the stretch between Malta and Sicily was turned into a dusty plateau, with the occasional deep valley cutting through it. We also saw how both the Eastern and Western basins of this sea tuned into deep holes with vast expanses of salt flats alternating with occasional mountains. The climate within these dried up basins was very harsh and not many animal and plant forms were able to survive. On the other hand, the surrounding climate of the region is cooler and drier as an important moisture source disappeared.
The problem with this nightmare/dream is that it DID happen.
Why?
How?
The first real indication of this cataclysmic past event came to light in 1970 when an international group of scientists started drilling the Mediterranean seafloor. Strange things started turning up in core samples: layers of microscopic plants and soil sandwiched between huge beds of salt more than two kilometres below today's sea level. The plants had grown in sunlight. Could the seafloor once have been near a shoreline? Or did the sea ever evaporated, leaving behind massive deposits of salts and what was once the sea floor, exposed to air! Eventually, most scientists agreed with the latter proposition: The Med did dry up. What’s more fantastic about this idea is that this sea probably dried up, only to be refilled with seawater more than once!
As we all know, the Mediterranean sea is exposed to intense sunlight which evaporates huge volumes of seawater. In fact, in spite of being replenished by a number of rivers which flow in it, some scientists have estimated that the sea level of our sea should go down by one metre every year, due to this water loss. So what stops this from happening? Well, this does not happen thanks to the Straits of Gibraltar through which water from the Atlantic is flowing in to compensate for the water loss due to the evaporation by the sun.

 
As the last Atlantic waters dripped over into the Mediterranean, this body of water began to become a hypersaline lake as evaporation exceeded precipitation and it eventually dried up (PICTURE 2). Prior to completely drying up, there could have been smaller hypersaline lakes, in which little or no marine life survived. As such lakes eventually evaporated as well, they left behind them thick deposits of salts. And these salt deposits were one of the first clues which suggested the possibility that our sea dried up, millions of years ago. Some remnants of these salt deposits today form salt mines which are commercially exploited (PICTURE 3)
 
About 5.3 million years ago, a small breach in the Gibraltar dam sent the process into reverse. Ocean water gushed out cutting a tiny channel to the Mediterranean. As the channel enlarged, the water flowed faster and faster, until the torrent ripped through the emerging Strait of Gibraltar at more than 100 knots. That must have been quite a sight (PICTURE 4)!
Eventually, the rising waters drowned the falls and warm Mediterranean water began to escape to the Atlantic, reheating the oceans and the planet. The salinity crisis ended about 5.3 million years ago. It had lasted roughly 600 000 years.
 
Incidentally, the pictures shown in the present contribution should not be taken literally or as being accurate enough. For example, it is quite likely that a few million years ago, the morphology of the Mediterranean was quite unlike that of today! However these pictures do give us a rough idea of what happened.
Can this event happen again? Yes. It is not unlikely that future continental drift will push the African continent closer to Europe sealing off the Straits of Gibraltar yet again.
Can it happen in our lifetime?
Certainly not.
These events are of a geological nature and therefore normally take place at VERY SLOW rates. So, it is quite likely that the human species will not be around to witness a repeat performance of this event.
What a pity!


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« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2007, 07:49:12 pm »



The remains of woolly mammoths and mastdons have washed up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, there have been accounts of that, they just haven't found any remains of that yet. It's even mentioned in the Andrew Collins book, "Gateway to Atlantis."

The passage I'm talking about from the Collins books comes from page 58 of my copy, under the chapter "Atlanticus."

It reads like this:

"What we cany say is that various species of mammoth and mastodon inhabited the American continent prior to the cessation of the last Ice Age, c 9000-8500 b.c. Conceivably, such enormous beasts could have been construed as elephants, invoking the possibility that they might have existed on Plato's Atlantic Island. In support of this theory Atlantologists cite the fact that mammoth and mastodon bones have been trawled up from the sea bottom by vessels fishing off the Atlantic shelf, close to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Despite such inexplicable curiosities there is no hard evidence whatsoever to lend credibility to the idea of elephants in Atlantis."

Collins' footnote credits Donato, A Re-examination of the Atlantis Theory, p 46, after K.O. Emery in Oceanus magazine. Hansen, p. 399

Now, I like Andrew Collins research a lot, but some of his conclusions often are kind of weird. To disqualify the idea of hard evidence of elephants in Atlantis, I think we have to know where Atlantis was. Collins, of course, places it in Cuba, and it's to his credit that he even mentions anything supporting an Azores Atlantis at all. Most researchers, I've noticed, either try to rip apart evidence that it may have been in other places or don't even mention it at all in order to support their pet theories.

Between, the elephant bones trawled up by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (and I'm still looking for the original sources and, of course, for pictures), the fact that the O'Briens have mapped out a sunken area there roughly the size of Spain, and that bigger parts of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were almost certainly above sea level during the Ice Age (which I'll get into later), the Azores becomes just as strong a candidate for Atlantis as it ever was, although, in my opinion it's not the only one!
 

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« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2007, 07:55:21 pm »

This next bit of information should eliminate, once and for all, that Atlantis could have been Spain or anything other than a large island in the Atlantic.
Thie first quote comes from Atalante in the thead entitled "Atlantis=Island-Peninsula"


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Strabo explained the difference between continents, islands, and peninsulas.
quote from: http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/1D*.html

"Next, after saying that there has been much discussion about the continents, and that some divide them by the rivers (the Nile and the Tanaïs), declaring them to be islands, while others divide them by the isthmuses (the isthmus between the Caspian and the Pontic Seas, and the isthmus between the Red Sea and the Ecregma), and that the latter call the continents peninsulas, Eratosthenes then says that he does not see how this investigation can end in any practical result, but that it belongs only to persons who choose to live on a diet of disputation"

At the bottom of the following link there is a map of the continents, as the Greeks understood them at that time. http://www.livius.org/ea-eh/edges/edges.html


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To which our friend Chronos also added in the original version of this thread:


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Incidentally, even if the translation reads "before" rather than "beyond" the Pillars of Hercules, it doesn't neccessarily disqualify the Azores as Atlantis. In fact, for Atlantis to actually be Spain, one might argue that the translation would have to read "beside" the Pillars of Hercules, rather than "before." That would be their correct geographic location.
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« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2007, 08:10:24 pm »

To which I'll also add these quotes from Critias & Timaeus:

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"The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."
"Such was the vast power which the god settled in the lost island of Atlantis;

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."


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As Andrew Collins also says, "you really have to play around with the geography of Timaeus for Atlantis to be in Spain."


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« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2007, 08:12:33 pm »

This is more information on the Russian discoveries of Atlantis, though still no pictures:
http://pandorasfiles.com/research/atlantis/chapter3_2.htm


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Soviet Case for Atlantis

On the 27th of March 1979, the Soviet vessel, of oceanographic research, "Vityaz" was found at the delta of the Portugeuese river Tago. During the same night journalists from all over the country and abroad, would listen to Dr. Ascenov's scientific announcements regarding the results of their research in the Atlantic.
After the necessary introduction to the journalists, the Soviet oceanologist announced some peculiar results regarding their research within the Atlantic ocean.

" In an Area that is located 900 kilometers off the Portuguese shores, an underwater plateau was identified, with strange formations. The plateau is on top of an underwater mountain. After extensive research and based to the measurements of our scientific equipment, we have identified possible ruins of a submerged city. We clearly identified destroyed walls and gigantic stairs. And although all these items are covered with loads of marine plants, we managed to take clear photos of the area. The photos are showing symmetrical stone constructions, staircases and other remains. All this material will be sent to Moscow for further analysis".
     
this short announcement, the soviet scientists revealed to the journalists, that they could have probably found Atlantis.
The Soviet vessel continued its mission searching the oceanic floor west of Madeira.

Close to this area there is an underwater mountain called "Amber". Five years later, in 1984 when the Soviet scientists concluded their research, they announced that "Amber" mountain, once was an island that was eventually submerged without giving any more information.

In September of the following year (1985) "Pravda" reported that the Soviets had pulled out of the ocean, from a depth of 4,500 meters a strange piece of marble. This discovery was made by another Soviet vessel: "Academic Boris Petrov". This new finding, puzzled the scientists.
The marble artifact's sides were smoothened. Its color was yellowish. Its schema betrayed artificial origin. The Soviet scientists mentioned that it was definitely man-made. By chemical analysis they produced palaeochronology results, showing that this piece of marble was lying at the bottom of the ocean for thousands of years (the experimental procedure unfortunately was not published).

The leading scientist of the Soviet Academy of Science, Leo Chitrov declared that he would personally head the research for the chemical analysis of the find. Since then, the Soviet Academy never announced anything regarding the results.


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« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2007, 08:16:28 pm »

Here is an interview with one of the Russian scientists who visited the Ampere Seamounts in the 1980's. Apparently, they have been there in 1974, 1978, 1984 and 1986. That's a lot of visits, and the information in the article seems to correspond with the recent interest in the area of the ocean just to the east. I read a quote from Dr. Maxine Asher's website where she also says that there are "four sunken cities in the area just to the west of Gibraltar."


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Searching for the Lost Continent
07/09/2003 16:45

Russian scientist believes, Atlantis lies between Gibraltar and the Azores.
Doctor of Geology and Mineralogy, professor Alexander Gorodnitsky has recently celebrated his 70th birthday.  This is a world-known scientist from the Russian Institute of Oceanology. Alexander Gorodnitsky is also known in Russia as a poet and a song writer.
Alexander Gorodnitsky chaired the laboratory of the marine geophysics at the Arctic Geology Research Institute in Leningrad. He took part in a lot of expeditions in various areas of the World Ocean, he explored the ocean at the depth of five kilometers in underwater vehicles. He was the first scientist in the world to calculate the lithosphere power. The professor published more than 260 scientific works, including eight studies about the geology and geophysics of the ocean floor.

You wrote a song about Atlases, you read books about Atlantis. What is it: a return to the old romantic hobby, or something more serious?

It is probably both. Vyacheslav Kudryavtsev, Director of the Metahistory Institute, believes, there is a mouth of an ancient river on the continental slope to the south-west of the British Isles. Kudryavtsev thinks, an ancient town might have existed on the banks of the river too. He is determined to go there to explore that place. There is no actual evidence to prove that supposition, but a theory says that the Greenland ice melted in the beginning of the historic time, and the Gulf Stream made it to the north. The continent with such a beautiful name - Atlantis - was flooded as a result of the ocean level change. It seemed to be very interesting to me, especially after we came across a strange construction under the water - it looked like the ruins of an ancient city.

We have all necessary equipment at our disposal at the Oceanology Institute: we have underwater probes and vehicles, which allow to submerge to the depth of the ocean. We have already developed the project of the mission, freighted a ship, we have even obtained a permission from the UK. We just need $200,000 for the expedition, but Russian sponsors have refused to help us.
Why breaking a lance - a lot of people believe that there is no Atlantis at all, because there has not been any evidence found to prove the existence of the ancient continent.

The absence of findings is not supposed to be the base to say no to further attempts and works. It simply testifies to the low level of the research. About 15 years ago scientists found a proof that a large ancient civilization used to exist - the huge Hittite Kingdom.

I think that the lost continent is situated somewhere between Gibraltar and the Azores. In 1984 and 1986 our expedition was working on the slopes of Mount Ampere, when we found very strange constructions at the depth of only 100 meters - they looked like rooms and walls. I submerged to see that myself, made some sketches. Other geologists drew alters or walls - that was what they had seen, we could not take any photographs at that time. At first it seemed to me that those rooms and walls had been created by the nature, but the rooms were equal in size. The human psychology is organized very specifically: if someone had said that professor Gorodnitsky found the lost continent, no one would have believed such a message.

Yes, it is true, but there were a lot of other scientists, who were trying to find Atlantis, Jacques Yves Cousteau, for example.

It was Cousteau, who explored the sea floor around Santorin volcano and found the ruins of an ancient state there. A lot of people believed that it was Atlantis. However, such a point of view contradicted to Plato's words, who said that Atlantis was situated on the other side of Pillar of Hercules. From the point of view of the modern geology, I dare to prove that the underwater mountain chain between Gibraltar and the Azores is the lost continent. Canaries and Green Cape islands are the last peaks of Atlantis.
Atlas stands next to Pillar of Hercules, which means that ancient people had reasons for that. Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that we will find a golden statue or ruins of ancient towns. Any expedition has a chance to be a success, because there is always an opportunity to discover something new. If we manage to prove that Europe used to spread far behind the Pyrenees, it will change the perception of the human history. In addition to it, it is a great chance for Russian scientists to discover Atlantis!

Scientists say, the angle of inclination of the axis of the equator is changing, which will eventually make continents collide with each other. The collision will cause a monstrous earthquake, the land will sink under the water, tsunamis will flood practically everything. What is your attitude to such forecasts?

They are nonsense. The stability of continent plates tectonics is determined with endogenous (internal) factors. As far as the Earth's axis is concerned, one may not worry about it for the coming 100,000 years. It will remain as it is now and will not cause an earthquake that would be capable of destroying continents.


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« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2007, 08:22:57 pm »

From 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (Jules Verne)
http://jv.gilead.org.il/fpwalter/2/09.html

I looked back down the side we had just cleared. There the mountain rose only 700 to 800 feet above the plains; but on its far slope it crowned the receding bottom of this part of the Atlantic by a height twice that. My eyes scanned the distance and took in a vast area lit by intense flashes of light. In essence, this mountain was a volcano. Fifty feet below its peak, amid a shower of stones and slag, a wide crater vomited torrents of lava that were dispersed in fiery cascades into the heart of the liquid mass. So situated, this volcano was an immense torch that lit up the lower plains all the way to the horizon.

As I said, this underwater crater spewed lava, but not flames. Flames need oxygen from the air and are unable to spread underwater; but a lava flow, which contains in itself the principle of its incandescence, can rise to a white heat, overpower the liquid element, and turn it into steam on contact. Swift currents swept away all this diffuse gas, and torrents of lava slid to the foot of the mountain, like the disgorgings of a Mt. Vesuvius over the city limits of a second Torre del Greco.

In fact, there beneath my eyes was a town in ruins, demolished, overwhelmed, laid low, its roofs caved in, its temples pulled down, its arches dislocated, its columns stretching over the earth; in these ruins you could still detect the solid proportions of a sort of Tuscan architecture; farther off, the remains of a gigantic aqueduct; here, the caked heights of an acropolis along with the fluid forms of a Parthenon; there, the remnants of a wharf, as if some bygone port had long ago harbored merchant vessels and triple-tiered war galleys on the shores of some lost ocean; still farther off, long rows of collapsing walls, deserted thoroughfares, a whole Pompeii buried under the waters, which Captain Nemo had resurrected before my eyes!

Where was I? Where was I? I had to find out at all cost, I wanted to speak, I wanted to rip off the copper sphere imprisoning my head.

But Captain Nemo came over and stopped me with a gesture. Then, picking up a piece of chalky stone, he advanced to a black basaltic rock and scrawled this one word:

ATLANTIS

What lightning flashed through my mind! Atlantis, that ancient land of Meropis mentioned by the historian Theopompus; Plato’s Atlantis; the continent whose very existence has been denied by such philosophers and scientists as Origen, Porphyry, Iamblichus, d’Anville, Malte-Brun, and Humboldt, who entered its disappearance in the ledger of myths and folk tales; the country whose reality has nevertheless been accepted by such other thinkers as Posidonius, Pliny, Ammianus Marcellinus, Tertullian, Engel, Scherer, Tournefort, Buffon, and d’Avezac; I had this land right under my eyes, furnishing its own unimpeachable evidence of the catastrophe that had overtaken it! So this was the submerged region that had existed outside Europe,Asia, and Libya, beyond the Pillars of Hercules, home of those powerful Atlantean people against whom ancient Greece had waged its earliest wars!

The writer whose narratives record the lofty deeds of those heroic times is Plato himself. His dialogues Timaeus and Critias were drafted with the poet and legislator Solon as their inspiration, as it were.

One day Solon was conversing with some elderly wise men in the Egyptian capital of Sais, a town already 8,000 years of age, as documented by the annals engraved on the sacred walls of its temples. One of these elders related the history of another town 1,000 years older still. This original city of Athens, ninety centuries old, had been invaded and partly destroyed by the Atlanteans. These Atlanteans, he said, resided on an immense continent greater than Africa and Asia combined, taking in an area that lay between latitude 12° and 40° north. Their dominion extended even to Egypt. They tried to enforce their rule as far as Greece, but they had to retreat before the indomitable resistance of the Hellenic people. Centuries passed. A cataclysm occurred—floods, earthquakes. A single night and day were enough to obliterate this Atlantis, whose highest peaks (Madeira, the Azores, the Canaries, the Cape Verde Islands) still emerge above the waves.

These were the historical memories that Captain Nemo’s scrawl sent rushing through my mind. Thus, led by the strangest of fates, I was treading underfoot one of the mountains of that continent! My hands were touching ruins many thousands of years old, contemporary with prehistoric times! I was walking in the very place where contemporaries of early man had walked! My heavy soles were crushing the skeletons of animals from the age of fable, animals that used to take cover in the shade of these trees now turned to stone!

Oh, why was I so short of time! I would have gone down the steep slopes of this mountain, crossed this entire immense continent, which surely connects Africa with America, and visited its great prehistoric cities. Under my eyes there perhaps lay the warlike town of Makhimos or the pious village of Eusebes, whose gigantic inhabitants lived for whole centuries and had the strength to raise blocks of stone that still withstood the action of the waters. One day perhaps, some volcanic phenomenon will bring these sunken ruins back to the surface of the waves! Numerous underwater volcanoes have been sighted in this part of the ocean, and many ships have felt terrific tremors when passing over these turbulent depths. A few have heard hollow noises that announced some struggle of the elements far below, others have hauled in volcanic ash hurled above the waves. As far as the equator this whole seafloor is still under construction by plutonic forces. And in some remote epoch, built up by volcanic disgorgings and successive layers of lava, who knows whether the peaks of these fire-belching mountains may reappear above the surface of the Atlantic!

As I mused in this way, trying to establish in my memory every detail of this impressive landscape, Captain Nemo was leaning his elbows on a moss-covered monument, motionless as if petrified in some mute trance. Was he dreaming of those lost generations, asking them for the secret of human destiny? Was it here that this strange man came to revive himself, basking in historical memories, reliving that bygone life, he who had no desire for our modern one? I would have given anything to know his thoughts, to share them, understand them!

We stayed in this place an entire hour, contemplating its vast plains in the lava’s glow, which sometimes took on a startling intensity. Inner boilings sent quick shivers running through the mountain’s crust. Noises from deep underneath, clearly transmitted by the liquid medium, reverberated with majestic amplitude.

Just then the moon appeared for an instant through the watery mass, casting a few pale rays over this submerged continent. It was only a fleeting glimmer, but its effect was indescribable. The captain stood up and took one last look at these immense plains; then his hand signaled me to follow him.

We went swiftly down the mountain. Once past the petrified forest, I could see the Nautilus’s beacon twinkling like a star. The captain walked straight toward it, and we were back on board just as the first glimmers of dawn were whitening the surface of the ocean.

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000958;p=2
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« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2007, 10:30:09 am »

DEAR  DHILL,

Sad DID YOU KNOW that the Atlantic Ocean's name was invented no earlier than 1648 at the peace-treaty of Münster by request of the Dutch sailors who destested sailing in the "Spainsh SEA"?

Before that,  the only Ocean that Plato could have known and meant to be the World-Ocean or Oikumenes was the INDIAN-Ocean!   Everywhere the ancients speak of "the ATLANTIC" whether Herodotus or Plato, they ALWAYS meant the INDIAN Ocean.

All the other "Oceans" got their oceanic signatures AFTER Plato's death, so Plato could heve never given reference to Geographical names that did not exist during his lifetime!  Do I have to spell it out for you again; don't you get it?


Columbus held his arabic-Atlantis Map upside Down and thus America is not in the game as an Atlantis candidate! 

If The Coordinates for Atlantis were checked in the Indian Ocean than "Atlantikoum Pelagous" would be the GULF-of-ADEN and ADEN ofcourse would be :"Atlantis".


Sincerely   "BlueHue"
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 12:15:11 pm by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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