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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean  (Read 18432 times)
Qoais
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« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2008, 05:38:20 pm »

Mr. Leonard has confirmed that it is NOT himself posting as dhill757.  I do see in some instances where dhill has made links to his sources, and in some he does not.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Bianca
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« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2008, 10:49:26 pm »




Okey dokey, 

I feel better now. 

Thanks, Q!!!
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« Reply #152 on: August 26, 2008, 05:35:14 am »

You asked me to put the question to Mr. Leonard regarding the translation for either "larger" or "between".

Here is his reply:

Your correspondant seems to think meson means "larger" and mesos means "in-between". These are simply two inflections of the same Greek word meaning "in the middle of" or "in-between"; but more seriously, Plato uses neither of them here. Mega means "large" (not meson) and Plato obviously used the comparative inflection of mega (i.e., "larger," which is meizon).

Hi Qoais,

Thank you for clarifying the correct translation with an expert!

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Qoais
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« Reply #153 on: August 26, 2008, 09:56:35 am »

Hi Tom - that was for Blue Hue because I know nothing about Latin or Greek and since Blue Hue had told me a different interpretation, I put the question to Mr. Leonard.  Then Blue Hue thought I hadn't put it in context, so I asked again and that was the reply.  Apparently Mr. Leonard does not use the Latin translations, but uses the Greek writings to translate.
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Logic rules.

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« Reply #154 on: November 21, 2008, 09:23:05 am »

BlueHue  and  0  Guests  are  viewing this  Topic.

Dear........QOAIS,

I knew it allready,
but the other day You fetched a Link
that said that the " PILLARS " off Gibraltar,
were formerly at Bab -el- Mandab( or at MILOS !)

But haven't you wondered
What the importance of These 'PILLARS' is
for the Location of Atlantis ?
Who says "PILLARS " says: 'ATLANTIS'

PILLARS & GADEIRA  PYLAE are 'Atlantis'
That's why GEORGEOS was so convinced of his HOAX- theory
and TITIEA of her Atlantis in MEROE- whereas it was really
in the FAR - WEST not of America but ARABY !

why did Hekataios & Herodotus place
NILE Sources in Morocco?
every atlantologist took this for granted!

And the Atlas Mountains in Morocco
were drawn on the( itinerary=text-)Map

of Hekataios(dd 512 bc.) and Herodotus(dd 450 bc.)
together with a Horizontal Nile River
that ran PARALELL with the Mediaterannean-SEA

My educated guess is
that Both these Logographers Maps are intended FORGERIES
dating from around 220 bc using older material
where the NILE had still ran in Ethiopia, PARALELL with the RED- SEA!
If You were BIANCA you immediately would ask
For a LINK saying"  I General Hasdrubal confess to that Map-Forgery"
( preferably in posh- Latin !)

MAP- FORGERIES
took Atlantis Toponyms OUTSIDE Araby
.
 I tried to explain & concey to BIANCA that for intended secret
Map-forgeries a Link is hard to provide. but:" no LINK no case" She said.

Otherwise with her cunning for quoting Pre-Roman-Old Maps
of the NW- African Coasts,  She would have found it already !

I formulated that the Atlantic-geo-Names OUTSIDE ARABY
are result of a geographic -map-ERROR induced by the WEST- Punicians.

because general HADRUBAL around 220 bc tried to impress his Roman-rivals,
by re-naming SPAIN as HIBERIA or Hesperia anyway as (" NEW-) ATlantis.

and he RE- named" Gibraltar' as the *(NEW-)Pillars of Hercules(or Kronos.)
CARTAGENA was the (NEW-) Carthage, CADIZ was the ( NEW-)Gadeira etc

It didn't impress the Romans much
after the Siege of Saguntum and th( lost )Battle at ZAMA
Scipio Africanus -junior quickly concuerred whole IBERIA
and the whole "SPAIN is Atlantis issue "was soon forgotten.

Only The ISLAS Fortunates Geo-Name,
remained settled on the Canary Island Archipellago.
as a sort of Roman penal-colony.

MUCH  Later in 1500 ad
King Ferdinand-1 re-Re-named SPAIN as the' original" Atlantis
to twart the " Legality" of the Tordesillias partition
 of the NEW-World-TREATY( dd 1489.)which he called part of Atlantis.

BEACON in 1620 called America the (" NEW-)Atlantis
but somehow by mediashortening America BECAME regarded as Atlantis
and even KIRCHER in 1670 placed Atlantis in MID- OCEAN.

Where as in the original Text Atlantis 'isle' was not Placed in MID- OCEAN,
but ON the MIDDLE-World-Ocean-ic SEA of Atlas.-
MID
- in-between = MESON, NOT MEIZON
Thus in
the bent-KNICK  division of TWO rectangular-positioned Seas( Red- Sea & Gulf of Aden.)

 Meanwhile cartographically speaking,
the horizontally placed Nile River had vanished and been straightened out Vertically
The NIGER became nowConfused with the Ficticious
horizontally mapped Nile!as the" Negrito- Nile(='Niger'!)

YOU BELIEVE in ATLANTIS in Morocco ? '
 in Morocco or NW- Africa, than that's really FABULOUS !
and You than accuse me of " Fabulations " ?Fabulous ? Me ?? Huh
than you must inadvertendly also place the" Sources" of the Nile in Morocco too !

CONCLUSION:

There are ONLY  THREE indicative  where Atlantis was
which are all overlooked, watched or glanced-over, with a blind Eye
but coverred by " BlueHue " dissident Atlantis-view:

One:  Atlantis was OIKUMENE=the KNOWN- World.(=of ARABY.)

Two:  Atlantis was opposite the PILLARS( of Hercules in Spain or KRONOS in ADEN>)

Three:Atlantis is paralell to the MOON -Mountains in Ethiopia
( or Atlas Mountains in Mauretania/ Morocco.)

If OIKUMENE is identical to Atlantis
and Oikumene is also ( WEST-)ARABY
than why look further for the original-Atlantis ?

If OUKUMENE is ATLANTIS
than the SEA which bordered Atlantis
(thus the SEA-of- Atlas) is the same as -
the MARE- Erytraeum or GULF of Aden.
At least in extention of Herodotus own words.

If Oikumene is Atlantis,
than the SEA that Surrounded OIKUMENE is the
Okeanous Oikumene, or
World-Ocean-river or the MID- Earth Sea
which is the RED- Sea
now, is THAT so difficult to understand?

IF OIKUMENE is ATLANTIS nickname
How on Earth can we place Atlantis
OUTSIDE- this OIKUMENE e.g.in America ?
I rest my case Cry Shocked Cry really even a child could fathom that.

Don't take me for a mere fabulator
just because I can't remember LINKS ! I cannot LINK as an autistic-Recluse.
My life as an pre-natal Alzheimer case isn't fun because you live by day not by LINKS !
Everybody around here sports LINKS but inspite of that no" Linker"
has found a LINK to Atlantis proper YET! ( So much for Linking Atlantis to SPAIN @!)

You once told me that you were inclined
to adhere to my dissident Atlantis VIEW
but were barred so because of some FABULATION
I am grouping in the dark here! are you afraid to speak out?

Would you care to NAME some of , my apparent or
alledged fabulations( now that I have told you
 how wrong the case for NW-Africa as Atlantis looks!)
so that at least I could' defend' myself ? ? ?
  Huh

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 20 Nov-2008
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 10:11:34 am by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
BlueHue
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« Reply #155 on: November 21, 2008, 10:31:35 am »

BlueHue   and  0  Guests  are viewing  this  topic.
Blue Hue - surely you don't believe the Himilayas are only from 855 bc ? 
Earth was well populated then, writings about such a catacylsmic event 
"The Himalayas are among the youngest mountain ranges seismically active, leading to earthquakes ."

The ( TWO-)Atlantis CATACLYSMS
occurred during the TITANS- reign and Age
but they
were later-on DISGRACED, demonized and Tabooed
and their memmory blurred

TITANS: Thot/ Prometheus CHNUM
fashioned new MAN from White Clay
not in Hoary old Ages but ca.1.000 bc
( Rev.21 in a ' NEW' World!)

The fact that we still know about their doomed-existence is
because hidden records survived and were unearthed by
greek writers, around 500 till 400 bc.

POSEIDON a TITAN. GOD or Both ?
Afterwards the GODS made war to these TITANS
and forbade their memory even their Cults ! So,

If there were historical writings about contemporary
cataclysms of Titan-ages ca 1.000 bc, they were suppressed

The Problem with finding references to Atlantis is BECAUSE
it's knowledge was politically suppressed , So I am sure
contemporary writings of atlantis deluge DID exists
but were hidden from later political CENSORS

One stupid question I heared as a a skeptical- counter-arguments is:
Did they have Censors & censorship in those ancient times ?

Sincerely " BlueHue   ( " Stop Spamming this Topic " I hear BIANCA say in the background.)20 Nov.2008
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 10:45:22 am by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
Bianca
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« Reply #156 on: November 21, 2008, 03:36:22 pm »



BLUE HUE:


"than you must inadvertendly also place the" Sources" of the Nile in Morocco too !"


No, but the Nile DID empty in the Atlantic Ocean in remote times, it has been shown
by pictures taken in space.



I told you before:


I am looking for Atlantis in 9,000 BC - according to documents



YOU:

Are looking for 'whatever' in 855 BC




"Either Atlantis is an island in the Atlantic or it's not Atlantis at all." -

James Bramwell,
'Lost Atlantis',
1937

« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 07:22:06 am by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

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War God of the Deep
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« Reply #157 on: November 25, 2008, 07:18:22 am »

War God of the Deep, Horus and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

I can't see why anyone sets the destruction of Atlantis in 855 bc. Not only is there no geological event recorded then that could be mistaken for the destruction of Atlantis, it would have been in such recent times that there isn't a chance that ancient historians could have had a case of mistaken identity for Atlantis.
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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #158 on: November 25, 2008, 06:06:45 pm »


Hi,

Blue Hue is a fierce "Velikovskian", as far as i know...

Immanuel Velikovsky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky

Quote
The revised chronology aimed at explaining the so-called "dark age" of the eastern Mediterranean (ca. 1100 – 750 BCE) and reconciling biblical history with mainstream archeology and Egyptian chronology.

Quote
He arrived at a body of radical inter-disciplinary ideas, which might be summarized as:

    * Planet Earth has suffered natural catastrophes on a global scale, both before and during mankind's recorded history.
    * There is evidence for these catastrophes in the geological record (here Velikovsky was advocating Catastrophist ideas as opposed to the prevailing Uniformitarian notions) and archeological record. The extinction of many species had occurred catastrophically, not by gradual Darwinian means.
    * The catastrophes which occurred within the memory of mankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion and in the Manu legend of India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends.
    * The cause of these natural catastrophes were close encounters between the Earth and other bodies within the solar system — not least what were now the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Venus and Mars, these bodies having moved upon different orbits within human memory.
    * To explain the celestial mechanics necessary to permit these changes to the configuration of the solar system, Velikovsky thought that electromagnetic forces might somehow play a greater role to counteract gravity and orbital mechanics.
    * Velikovsky argued that the conventional chronology of the Near East and classical world, based upon Egyptian Sothic dating and the king lists of Manetho, was wholly flawed. This was the reason for the apparent absence of correlation between the Biblical record and those of neighbouring cultures, and also the cause of the enigmatic "Dark Ages" in Greece and elsewhere. Velikovsky shifted several chronologies and dynasties from the Egyptian Old Kingdom to Ptolemaic times by centuries (a scheme he called the Revised Chronology), placing the Exodus contemporary with the fall of the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. He proposed numerous other synchronisms stretching up to the time of Alexander the Great. He argued that these eliminate phantom "Dark Ages", and vindicate the biblical accounts of history and those recorded by Herodotus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky
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Bianca
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« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2008, 06:25:15 pm »





Thank you, Mario-

I've been aware of BH's source from the time I first met him.....








                                                    I M M A N U E L   V E L I K O V S K Y







EDUCATION



Immanuel Velikovsky was born in 1895 to a prosperous Jewish family, in Vitebsk, Russia (part of modern-day Belarus). The son of Shimon (Simon Yehiel) Velikovsky (1859 – 1937) and Beila Grodensky, he learned several languages as a child, was sent away to study at the Medvednikov Gymnasium in Moscow, where he performed well in Russian and mathematics. He graduated with a gold medal in 1913. Velikovsky then traveled in Europe and visited Palestine before briefly studying medicine at Montpellier in France and taking premedical courses at the University of Edinburgh. He returned to Russia before the outbreak of World War I, enrolled in the University of Moscow, and received a medical degree in 1921.





Velikovsky's career as a psychiatrist



From 1924 to 1939 Velikovsky lived in what was then Palestine, practicing medicine (both general practice and psychiatry), and also psychoanalysis (he had studied under Sigmund Freud's pupil, Wilhelm Stekel in Vienna).

During this time he had a dozen or so papers published in medical and psychoanalytic journals, including, in 1930,
the first paper to suggest epilepsy is characterized by abnormal encephalograms, now part of the routine diagnostic procedure, and papers in Freud's Imago, including a precocious analysis of Freud's own dreams.





Emigration to the USA and a career as an author



In 1939, with the prospect of war looming, Velikovsky travelled with his family to New York, intending to spend a sabbatical year researching for his book Oedipus & Akhnaton (which, inspired by Freud's Moses and Monotheism, explored the possibility that Pharaoh Akhenaton was the legendary Oedipus).

Freud had argued that Akhenaton, the supposedly monotheistic Egyptian pharaoh, was the source of the religious principles that Moses taught to the people of Israel in the desert. Freud's claim (and that of others before him) was based in part on the resemblance of Psalm 104 in the Bible to an Egyptian hymn discovered on the wall of the Tomb of Akhenaton's general, Ai, in Akhenaton's city of Akhetaten.

To disprove Freud's claim as well as to prove the Exodus as such, Velikovsky sought evidence for the Exodus in Egyptian documents. One such document was the Ipuwer Papyrus which reports events similar to several of the Biblical plagues.

Since conventional Egyptology dated the Ipuwer Papyrus much earlier than either the Biblical date for the Exodus (ca. 1500 – 1450 BCE) or the Exodus date accepted by many of those who accepted the conventional chronology
of Egypt (ca. 1250 BCE), Velikovsky had to revise or correct the conventional chronology.

Within weeks of his arrival in the United States, World War II began. Soon launching on a tangent from his original book project, Velikovsky began to develop the radical catastrophist cosmology and revised chronology theories for which he would become notorious (see below). For the remainder of the Second World War, now as a permanent resident of New York City, he continued to research and write about his ideas, searching for a means to disseminate them to academia and the public. He privately published two small Scripta Academica pamphlets summarising his theories in 1945 (Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History and Cosmos Without Gravitation).

His mailing a copy of the latter to astronomer Harlow Shapley in 1947 was to have particular repercussions.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:56:10 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

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Bianca
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« Reply #160 on: November 25, 2008, 06:39:01 pm »




Velikovsky was a Zionist and, at the risk of sounding anti-Semitic (which I am NOT),

his whole outlook was coloured by his keen desire to see the creation of the State of

Israel, to which end caused him to try and glorify ('consciously or unconsciously') the

importance of Ancient Israel by any means possible.......
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:49:12 pm by Bianca » Report Spam   Logged

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Gwen Parker
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« Reply #161 on: November 25, 2008, 10:25:50 pm »

I just can't see how any serious Atlantologist would place Atlantis anyplace other than the west, or the northwest.  Plato's directions and his geography are really clear!  It is a total insult to the Egyptians and the Greeks to think that they didn't know where Saudi Arabia or the Red Sea were, or that it could have been somewhere else on the coast of Africa.  The only African place that makes sense to me is Morocco, and that is because it is so far west it would have been easier for them to get confused as to it's breadth (not to mention the settlements there date to as old as 15,000 bc).
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« Reply #162 on: December 12, 2008, 02:28:05 pm »

I just can't see how any serious Atlantologist would place Atlantis anyplace other than the west, or the northwest. 

( Far- WEST or N-W, of AMERICA  I suppose You meant ?)
Plato's directions and his geography are really clear!  It is a total insult to the Egyptians and the Greeks to think that they didn't know where Saudi Arabia or the Red Sea were, or that it could have been somewhere else on the coast of Africa. 
The only African place that makes sense to me is Morocco, and that is because it is so far west  as old as 15,000 bc).

Dear .....................GWEN,


PLATO is also clear that
 ' ATLANTIS ' is the WORLD in his time the " Better- KNOWN"- World
But Atlantis was the KNOWN- WORLD not the known- World.

KNOWN World was a synonym for ARABY
as " ORCHOMENE(= Golden-City gleaming with Golden temple rooftops like in Burma!)
Atlantis City(= Poseidonis Polis.) was the Capital of OIKUMENE =' KNOWN- World.

Orchomene fits the description of Plato too, so did the Capital of the
 Faeaceans Faecians or Phoenicians in Odysseus Odyssee
Plato's 'Atlantis' was also the Capital of the " KNOWN" World,

in ancient time before 250 bc, ARABY was known as the KNOWN-World or the WHITE wall of Egypt.
THUS the SEA surrounding the ( KNOWN-) World () of Atlantis.)
was the RED- SEA and NOT the Atlantic Ocean !( which got that name ca 1649 ad, by the Munster War-treaty.)

The WORLD- Sea became mixed-up with the Atlantic part of the OCEAN
The geoname Atlantic Sea was mixed up with the WORLD Ocean
the Latin compilers merged the TWO SEAS of World-Ocean and Atlantic-Sea/Ocean into WORLD- Ocean

Thus by a mere misunderdstanding of the ( Always corrupt" Textus- Receptus")
the Americans think of THEIR " FAR - WEST " land, instead of just the WESTERN- Part of the KNOWN-World
( of Araby !)

Do you grasp my drift now ? ?  Cry Shocked Cry

ARABY was the LAND of the MIDDLE
Atlantis was the CENTER of the KNOWN- World
in Poseidons Temple stood the World Pillar or the Axis of Middle Earth.

The SEA surrounding the Land of the MIDDLE would be called logically
the MIDDLE-land SEA or MARE MEDIA-Terran Nean
But because ARABY not SPAIN nor Marocco was Atlantis,

The Names Atlantic -Ocean and Mediaterranean Sea both
alluded to the RED- SEA or Sinus Arabicus.


Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 12 Dec. 2008  *( Tech-Univ.Delft, Holland.)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 11:58:23 am by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
dhill757
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« Reply #163 on: December 27, 2008, 04:32:38 am »

Who discovered the Americas?
Zeeya Merali


Skull analysis suggests Australians got there first.

From the BA Festival of Science, Exeter, UK.

Traditional colonization theories hold that the first wave of humans to migrate to the Americas came from Siberia.


The first colonizers of the Americas came from Australia, according to archaeologists who have analysed skulls from 12,000-year-old skeletons found in California. The finding contradicts the traditional view that the first immigrants were the ancestors of modern Native Americans.

The skulls, taken from skeletal remains found in the desert of the Baja California peninsula in Mexico, are long and narrow. "This is completely different to the Native Americans' rounder skull shape," explains lead researcher Silvia Gonzalez from the Liverpool John Moores University, UK.

The skeletons are housed by the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City. They were embedded in volcanic deposits that deteriorated the structure of the bones and made them difficult to date accurately. But the skulls' intriguing form has driven researchers to work out how old they are.

Gonzalez and her team announced their first set of results on 6 September at the Exeter-based Festival of Science, run by the British Association for the Advancement of Science. They have managed to radiocarbon date 4 of the 27 skeletons. So far, the oldest, belonging to an individual called Peñon Woman III, is 12,700 years old.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040906/full/040906-5.html
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« Reply #164 on: December 27, 2008, 04:35:29 am »

Possible Atlantic crossings


Two eminent archeologists say that North America's first inhabitants may have been from Europe's Iberian Peninsula. This view is in contrast to the theory discussed elsewhere in this article that the first settlers came across a land Bridge from Asia some 13,500 years ago establishing a culture called "Clovis". The country's first inhabitants may have crossed the Atlantic some 18,000 years ago from the area which is now present day Spain, Portugal, and southwestern France. According to Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley, these pre-modern explorers called Solutreans are believed to have settled the Eastern Seaboard and over the next six mellenia their culture spread as far as the American deserts, the Canadian tundra, and perhaps even into South America. The researchers say the Solutreans may not have been the only paleo-explorers to reach the Western Hemisphere. Archaeological sites have been discovered in Pennsylvania, Virginia, South Carolina, as well as Monte Verde, Chile which had been settled 12,500 to 16,0000 B.C (When the first (?) Europeans went to South America in the 1500's, the indigenous people fought that they were the same people who built their ancient civilisation, they described them as a divine race of bearded Whites). The projectile points and other artifacts found at these sites are identical to those found on the other side of the Atlantic.

The Disappearance of the First Whites In America

The case for Whites in pre-Amerind North America therefore appears credible: all that must be answered is what happened to them. The evidence indicates that the first Whites in America were either killed in open warfare with Amerinds (who may have arrived simultaneously or afterwards); and that the remaining Whites were absorbed into what became the numerically dominant Amerind groupings. The existence of the Lineage X gene string supports the latter.

The first Whites in America therefore disappeared, along with their culture, through a process of racial integration, leaving behind only tantalising clues such as skeletons and other artifacts as evidence of their existence. For politically correct reasons these matters would never receive full-scale adoption in school text-books or the curriculum.

The British National Party, http://www.bnp.to]http://www.bnp.to



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