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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean

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dhill757
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« on: March 26, 2007, 03:39:32 pm »

The purpose of this thread is to place Atlantis back where it belongs, squarely in the Atlantic Ocean. After becoming familiar with most of the theories, both here and in the literary world, I have to say I still haven't seen anyone to compare with the original placement, in the Atlantic. Believe me, I know all the arguments for placing it in the Mediterranean and they don't hold water, so to speak! We may even go over the weaknesses of some of them here. Some researchers try to get around that by placing the "Pillars of Hercules" in other areas and say that Plato meant to situate them differently, near Greece or the Dardanelles. To that, I'll quote Andrew Collins who says, "every classical historian or geographer who mentions the Pillars of Hercules places them first and foremost at the entrance to the Atlantic Ocean." There are two choices here, to my way of thinking anyway, either Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean or it didn't exist at all.
Here, I'd like to investigate the Atlantis story as far east as Gibralter, as far west as America, as far north as Greenland, as far south as Antarctica.

"Either Atlantis is an island in the Atlantic or it's not Atlantis at all." -James Bramwell, Lost Atlantis, 1937

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dhill757
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 03:40:18 pm »

There are several ways that Atlantis might have existed:
1. The raised Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
2. Atlantis, like Surtsey, could have been one of the many volcanic islands "spit out" by the volatile Atlantic, then taken back at a later date.
3. Laurasia, this would imply a much older Atlantis, perhaps. There certainly is a "piece" missing from the continental plates between North America and Europe.
4. The water levels being lower during the Ice Age, Atlantis could have been simply a larger version of one of the island chains we still have in the Atlantic now - the Azores, Madeiras, Cape Verde, Canaries, etc.
5. An area of the Atlantic that takes in the Azores, Canaries, Madeiras all at once and may have been of continental size.
6. Cuba, along with a larger area of the Bahamas.

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dhill757
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 03:41:05 pm »

Atlantic Ocean
Ocean lying between Europe and Africa to the east and the Americas to the west; area of basin 81,500,000 sq km/31,500,000 sq mi; including the Arctic Ocean and Antarctic seas, 106,200,000 sq km/41,000,000 sq mi. It is generally divided by the Equator into the North Atlantic and South Atlantic. It was probably named after the legendary island continent of Atlantis. The average depth is 3 km/2 mi; greatest depth is at the Milwaukee Depth in the Puerto Rico Trench 8,648 m/28,374 ft. The Mid-Atlantic Ridge, of which the Azores, Ascension, St Helena, and Tristan da Cunha form part, divides it from north to south. Lava welling up from this central area annually increases the distance between South America and Africa. The North Atlantic is the saltiest of the main oceans and has the largest tidal range.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009503.html
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dhill757
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 03:42:29 pm »

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

quote:
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Ancient Egyptian Writings
(Miscellaneous Observations)

THOTH


Scattered though the references may be, an interesting picture emerges from the numerous references to Thoth in the writings of the ancient Egyptians. And that picture fits the theory of an Atlantean origin for this intriguing character.

Thoth was born in a distant country to the west which was across a body of water. Its main city was by the sea (Plato's metropolis). The land possessed volcanos and, like Atlantis, had a low mountain or large hill in the center. This land is sometimes referred to as the Isle of Flame. (Book of the Dead, Hymn of Rameses IV and Pyramid Texts)

A catastrophe occurred which darkened the sun and disturbed the gods, but Thoth led them across the sea to an eastern country [Egypt]. Thoth is depicted as the "controller of the Flood," (Leyden Papyrus) and the Theban Recension includes the Island of Flame in the Flood story. (Papyrus of Ani, Chap. CLXXV)

In Chapter LXXXV of the Book of the Dead, Thoth rules the "Western Domain," and by the end of the New Kingdom he is called "Lord of the West". (Seth, 1912) Thoth is said to be the inventor of writing, astronomy, and civilization in general. The question is pertinent: Was Thoth an Atlantean?

THE FLOOD

Nu, the Egyptian god of the Primeval Sea, is represented on the marble sarcophagus of Seti I as being up to his waist in water with arms upraised to carry the Solar Boat across the Sky. He is said to have held the royal occupants of this boat above the flood waters engulfing their mountainous island home in the West. Nu had been ordered to bring about this very flood by Atum in order to purify the world (Budge, 1960). Does this primeval flood scene depict the first migration from the Lands of the West to Egypt because of the inundation of Atlantis?


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dhill757
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 03:43:18 pm »

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

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THE LAND OF THE WEST

Secondly, I noticed that Manetho says that the Egyptian god-kings (which I believe to be identical with the ten kings who ruled Atlantis) reigned in a foreign land. The Egyptian hieroglyph set which is commonly translated "foreign land" is extremely interesting.

Set: can mean foreign land, mountainous
land, or the underworld (Inscription
of Anebni, 18th Dynasty)

Amentet: can mean either West, or
Land of the West (Funeral Stele of
Panehesi, 19th Dynasty)

Now the "Land of the West" would be a natural Egyptian name for Atlantis. The Atlantic Ocean was referred to as the "Western Ocean". Did Manetho translate "foreign land" from this glyph? If so, we probably have ourselves a reference to Atlantis in the writings of Manetho. There were no mountains in western Egypt, yet this glyph represented a mountainous land to the west of Egypt.

That the glyph set also represented the "underworld," also fits, since this is the land where the sun shines after it has set (no pun intended) on the land of Egypt. It was believed in popular Egyptian mythology that the sun passed through the underworld on its way back to rise once more in the east.

We therefore have a glyph representing a western, mountainous land, a land where the sun went after it had set on Egypt, and whose earliest rulers were probably called "Auliteans" or "Aleteans". To top it off the reign of these kings ended around 9850 B.C. A lot of coincidences.

The famed zodiac in the temple of Hathor at Denderah begins with the constellation Leo registering the beginning of a new cycle. Could this signify a time of renewal of the earth: a beginning of a new cycle after a tremendous geological cataclysm accompanying the fall of the Atlantean empire and the end of the "reign of the gods"?


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dhill757
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 03:45:59 pm »

THE AZORES:


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Introduction

There are nine main islands spanning 400 miles of ocean. Furthest west lie the remote and small Corvo and Flores, then Sao Jorge, Pico and Faial lie close together and are conveniently served by ferries. Pico and Sao Jorge are for the nature and wilderness lover the most attractive. This is where our guided trek is located. Just north of these three lies Graciosa and slightly further to the east Terceira. Finally, at the east end of the archipelago, lie Sao Miguel and Santa Maria.

Ponta Delgada, the capital of the Azores, is located on Sao Miguel, the largest of the islands and the most populous. Most visitors fly in here and then take local flights to reach other islands.



There are several excellent walks on the islands, much through unspoilt country, the people are friendly and crime virtually unheard of. Small villages with narrow streets are dotted along the coast and on the hillsides-tops and in almost every direction there are beautiful panoramas of the coastline and the blue Atlantic. At present there are still only a few hotels on the islands and tourism is in its infancy, it is still possible to walk on mountain paths without seeing other people. Many of the paths are not well marked and some older paths have become overgrown by the vigorous growing Himalayan ginger.

In addition to the coastal scenery, mountains and lakes, the town of Furnas on Sao Miguel stands out as a unique location lying at the base of an ancient crater. In the middle of the old town is a magnificent and extensive botanical garden. There are several hot springs and hot bathing pools in and around Furnas, the largest being located at the heart of the botanical gardens.

Our trips

We organise guided and unguided private trips which are all based at high quality hotels. One of our guided scheduled trips takes in the best walks on four islands and includes an ascent of Pico - at 2351m the highest summit in the Azores and in fact in Portugal. The ascent of Pico involves walking up rough steep paths but is not technically difficult. It is not allowed to make the ascent without a qualified guide.

Another scheduled trip combines three of the best walks on So Miguel staying a few days in Furnas and the rest in a luxury hotel at the coast.

Climate and Weather

The average coastal temperatures in July and August are about 25C and in January 15C. July and August are dry months with little rain and frequently blue skies. During the winter months occasional storms are to be expected. At all times of the year the humidity can be quite high. The ocean temperatures range from 24C in August and September to 16C in January and February.
 
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dhill757
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 03:47:23 pm »



Azores History

Plato's research suggested to him that Atlantis was a land of seafarers who fought wars against Mediterranean peoples and came from beyond the Pillars of Hercules. Atlantis was supposed to be a great island with a giant natural harbour and city of concentric circles. The land sank in about 9,400 BC leaving only scattered islands.
The Azores could be the remnants of the lost world of Atlantis. The beautifully located town of Sete Cidades on Sao Miguel island is named after the seven cities of Atlantis. Further credence is added to this theory from more recent history, in 1811 a new volcanic island was formed and claimed by the British. It was named Sabrina after the ship commanded by Captain Tillard. However the British presence in the Azores was short-lived as the island soon thereafter vanished back under the waves.

For most of recent history the islands have been controlled by the Portuguese and only recently have they gained a degree of autonomy. Though varied they are all basically volcanic in character. Volcanoes, craters, some with beautiful lakes, hot springs and high cliffs abound. The maritime climate combined with rich volcanic soils results in a year-round green carpet of forests and meadows. Heathers, hydrangeas, Himalayan ginger and a wide variety of subtropical and some tropical plants cover the hillsides.

http://www.ewpnet.com/Azores.htm
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dhill757
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 03:49:17 pm »



Furnas Botanical Gardens



Lagoa do Capitao, Pico



Furnas and Himalayan Ginger
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dhill757
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 03:51:09 pm »

GEOLOOGY OF THE AZORES



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The Azores are entirely of volcanic origin. They have been created by outpourings of lava from the ocean floor. The high level of activity in the area is a result of three major tectonic plates meeting here. The North American Plate to the northwest of the Azores is gradually drifting west, the Euroasian Plate to the northeast is drifting east and south and finally the African Plate is drifting east and north. The small Azores Microplate, which is drifting westwards, further complicates the picture. Where the plates pull apart (diverge) lava outpourings have created mid-oceanic ridges, the highest parts of these rise out of the sea to create volcanic islands. The mid-Atlantic ridge on which the Azores lie extends for 16,000 km. and islands along its length include Iceland.
The oldest of the islands, Santa Maria, was formed some 7 million years ago and then sank and reappeared. As a result it is the only island to have appreciable marine fossils in its rocks. The youngest island is Pico. it was mainly formed some 300 thousand years ago. There was an even younger island - Sabrina - not far off from Sao Miguel that appeared in 1811 and was claimed by the British but sadly it vanished under the oceans just a few months later.


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http://www.ewpnet.com/azores/geology.htm
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 03:52:34 pm »

There was an even younger island - Sabrina - not far off from Sao Miguel that appeared in 1811 and was claimed by the British but sadly it vanished under the oceans just a few months later.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet another Atlantic Island that was reclaimed by the ocean again.

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dhill757
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 03:54:14 pm »

Here is more of the flora and fauna of the Azores, courtesy of Antonio Pedroso.

http://www.ewpnet.com/azores/flora.htm


 
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 03:59:47 pm »

Plato mentions elephants in Critias. The remains of Woolly Mammoths and Mastadons have washed up along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

(The following information may be outdated:)

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Paleontology.html

quote:
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PALEONTOLOGICAL
TESTIMONY
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Pleistocene Extinction

Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individual animals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).


Moreover, there is evidence of large geological changes which took place, such as massive volcanism, numerous earthquakes, tidal waves, to say nothing of the glacial melting which raised sea-levels several hundred feet worldwide. It's beginning to look like the Pleistocene Epoch didn't tippy-toe out silently, but rather ended with a large roar. Geologists and Paleontologists have an innate distaste for catastrophism, and that's understandable. Catastrophists, who in the beginning were identifying every strata of sediment with a worldwide flood, layer upon layer, almost totally discredited the field of geology--and uniformitarianism pulled the science out of the fire. But now, scientists in both fields are gradually realizing that both catastrophism and uniformitarianism (or gradualism) are at work in nature, and that everything can't be explained using one or the other alone (Gould, 1975). One of the indicators of the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both hemispheres: Canada and Alaska in the western, and Northern Russian and Siberia in the eastern.

THE AMERICAN REMAINS

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains. The remains he found were not human, but what he found was anything but evidence of gradualism or uniformitarianism. Instead he found miles of muck filled with the remains of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. Just north of Fairbanks, Hibbens and his associates watched as bulldozers pushed the half-melted muck into sluice boxes for the extraction of gold. Animal tusks and bones rolled up in front of the blades "like shavings before a giant plane". The carcasses were found in all attitudes of death, most of them "pulled apart by some unexplainable prehistoric catastrophic disturbance" (Hibben, 1946).


The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass. The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen (Sanderson, 1960). But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.


Paleontologist George G. Simpson considers the extinction of the Pleistocene horse in north America to be one of the most mysterious episodes in zoological history, admitting that in all honesty no one knows the answer. He also admits that this is only a part of the larger problem of the extinction of many other species in America at the same time (Simpson, 1961). The horse is merely the tip of the iceberg: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. They weren't wiped out because Alaska and Siberia were experiencing an Ice Age. "Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question," say leading Paleontologists (Martin & Guilday, 1967).


Woolly mammoths, woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, giant ground sloths and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while whole mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died on a global scale, at about the same time, circa. 10,000 B.C.

FROZEN ANIMALS IN SIBERIA

The picture in Siberia and northern Europe is no different. Just north of Siberia whole islands are formed of the bones of Pleistocene animals swept northward from the continent into the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean. It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth and undigested food in its stomach. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!



And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).


Geologists are once more becoming divided on the issue of catastrophism. A few are breaking away from their hard stand of the past, and are at looking at the problem with more of an open mind. Mr. Harold P. Lippman seems to be objective when he admits that the magnitude of fossils and tusks encased in the Siberian permafrost present an "insuperable difficulty" to uniformitarianism alone, since no gradual process can result in the preservation of tens of thousands of tusks and whole individuals, "even if they died in winter" (Lippman, 1962). Especially when many of these individuals have undigested grasses and leaves in their belly.


Certain misguided workers have vainly suggested that man was the cause of all this death and destruction. In the first place, the remains of the animals outnumber the remains of man a million to one. There is no way the populations of man could have killed this many animals. Some Pleistocene bone sites obviously represent the efforts of Big Game Hunters: fire was sometimes used to drive a herd of animals over a cliff or into a bog to be slaughtered for food. In these instances, the hand of man is rather obvious. Prof. N. K. Vereschagin of the then Soviet Union states bluntly: "The accumulation of mammoth bones and carcasses of mammoth, rhinoceros, and bison found in frozen ground in Indigirka, Lolyma, and Novosibirsk bear no traces of hunting of primitive man" (Vereschagin, 1967).

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".


Watching them cut the huge block of muck-filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolly mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in his stomach!


Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet at the very end of the Pleistocene.


Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity (see my Archeology page: Tiahuanacu) and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).


More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).


So it seems the last Ice Age, the Pleistocene Epoch, the Upper Paleolithic Age, and the "reign of the gods" in Egyptian history all ended at about the same time. It appears to me that the evidence, when taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe (from whatever cause) which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch. Can it be merely coincidence that this is the very date (circa. 10,000 B.C.) indicated by Plato for the floods and seismic disturbances which led to the sinking of Atlantis and the destruction of its empire?


* TOP of Page

Bibliography

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969.
Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961.
Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975.
Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977.
Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946.
Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979.
Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969.
Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967.
Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, January 16, 1960.
Simpson, George G., "Horses," New York, 1961.
Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, J., editors), New Haven, 1967.


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dhill757
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 04:09:00 pm »

From Andrew Collins (Gateway to Atlantis):
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/interactive/midatlan.htm

Atlantis in the Mid-Atlantic   
 
A very plausible solution to the Atlantis mystery is that Plato's Atlantic Island was located in the Mid-Atlantic and that the island chain known as the Azores are its surviving remnants. This cluster of nine main islands is located amid a chain of underwater mountains that rise to heights in excess of 9000 metres. They form part of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which defines the division between tectonic plates, aligned approximately north-south beneath the ocean floor for some 17,600 kilometres. It is the tips of the very highest of these subterranean mountains that protrude from the ocean floor as the principal islands of the Azores, which are themselves endowed with sizeable mountains that soar to a height in excess of 2100 metres. 
   
Perhaps the most important writer to propose that the Azores were remnants of an Atlantean island continent was Ignatius Donnelly, author of the seminal classic Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, first published in 1882. This American congressman set down the foundations for the thousands of books and articles that have been written on the subject of Atlantis over the past 120 years. Although Donnelly's book has seen countless reprints, much of what he had to say about Atlantis being an antediluvial motherland for the diffusion of civilisation on both sides of the Atlantic has since been proved incorrect. 
     
  Despite this drawback, Donnelly's original thesis of a central Atlantean landmass has been perpetuated by a number of well-respected scholars of the Atlantis mystery. They include Russian academic Nikolai Zhirov. In the 1960s he wrote a series of papers on the subject, as well as a definitive book entitled Atlantis - Atlantology: Basic Problems, published in 1970. Like Donnelly, he argued that the former Atlantean landmass lay in the vicinity of the Azores and that, before it sank without trace, it acted as a land-bridge for the migration of flora and fauna between Africa and the Americas. 
     
  Christian O'Brien, a retired industrial geologist, archaeologist and historical writer, has also tackled the concept of a mid-Atlantic continent having once existed in the vicinity of the Azores. In his 1997 book The Shining Ones - co-authored with his wife Barbara Joy - he proposed that the Azorean landmass, as he sees it, suffered immense cataclysms and eventually sank into the earth's liquid magma, leaving only the Azores as hard evidence of its former existence. The discovery of six fields of hot springs in the vicinity of the Azores is, he postulates, firm evidence of this hypothesis. 
   


  During underwater explorations off the island of So Miguel, the largest island in the Azores group, in 1971 Christian O'Brien found clear evidence of an underwater river bed filled with water-worn boulders. By applying detailed contouring methods to hydrographic charts, the O'Briens discerned that rivers draining off the southern slopes of So Miguel once converged together in a huge valley, now situated some 64 kilometres out from the present coastline. Other islands in the Azores group have yielded similar hydrographic anomalies, and in one case the O'Briens even traced a series of river valleys which extended for a distance of 288 kilometres before converging together in a much larger river basin.
   
  With a knowledge of ancient river systems, the O'Briens were able to reconstruct a land profile which revealed an Azorean landmass 'about the size and shape of Spain', with high mountain ranges rising over 3655 metres above sea-level, as well as impressive rivers that run 'in curving valley systems'. Furthermore, they have pointed out that:
 
In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3500 square miles [9065 square kilometres], and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, as we shall see, points in common with a great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the island of Atlantis.


     
  The conclusion drawn from these findings is that the Azores once formed part of a much greater landmass which sank beneath the waves and is now situated 'many thousands of feet' below the current sea-level. To obtain a more substantial insight into this fascinating subject, the O'Briens propose that a scientific team take a series of core samples from the proposed sites of their river channels. They confidently predict that these will show not only evidence of ancient river beds, but also of the freshwater flora and fauna which once thrived on the former Azorean landmass. 
     

These are fascinating insights into the protohistory of the Azores group. Yet there are fundamental problems in accepting the theory of a former Azorean landmass. It is now known, for instance, that the volcanic mountains which constitute the Mid-Atlantic Ridge are of relatively recent composition. They are like age-old geological scars on a gaping wound that never properly heals. The north-south orientated tectonic plates produce an upward flow of magma which constantly creates new underwater mountain systems that are unlikely to have formed part of a geological landmass in the manner described. 
   
In addition to these problems, we must also acknowledge that there is now wide-scale acceptance of the so-called continental drift theory, first proposed in 1915 by the German meteorologist Arthur Wegener. In simple terms, this asserts that many millions of years ago the American and African landmasses were joined together, yet ever since they have been slowly moving apart. Just by making paper cutouts of the different continents and slotting them together we can see they fit snugly, suggesting that the continental drift theory is real. Furthermore, the fact that the American and African continents were once joined together explains much of the flora and fauna they share. 
   
More damning is the fact that when the first Portuguese navigators reached the Azorean islands in 1427, they found them devoid not only of human life but also of any fauna. Even though some evidence has emerged to imply that in the third century BC Carthaginian vessels from North Africa reached Corvo, the westernmost of the Azorean islands, no archaeology has come to light to suggest that the archipelago ever supported an indigenous culture. 
     
  Even if the O'Briens' proposals regarding prehistoric river beds, located off the coast of So Miguel, do prove to be correct it seems unlikely that Plato's Atlantis is the memory of a high culture which once thrived on any proposed Azorean landmass. No evidence of an indigenous culture has ever come to light on any of the islands and there is no reason to assume that Plato's Atlantis account alludes to a landmass of this sort. Even though he did state that Atlantis was the size of Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined, it can be argued that this did not relate to the physical size of the island but to the extent of the dominion held by the kings of Atlantis. This can be determined from the Critias, where Plato refers specifically to a much smaller, east-west orientated landmass that cannot have been any more than 600 kilometres in width (see the entry for the Americas).

Donnelly, Ignatius, Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, 1882, Harper, New York/London, 1902
Muck, Otto, The Secret of Atlantis, 1976, Collins, London, 1978
O'Brien, Christian & Barbara Joy O'Brien, The Shining Ones, Dianthus Publishing, Kemble, Cirencester, Glos., 1997
Zhirov, N. F., Atlantis - Atlantology: Basic Problems, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1970
   
 


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dhill757
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 04:16:49 pm »

SURVEY OF ATLANTIS

A brief compilation of evidence to encourage further scientific research and analysis of the issues by specialists to prove or disprove the O'Brien thesis of the recent existence of a large Mid-Atlantis Ridge island centred on the Azores.

A Reconstruction of the Main Island of Plato's Atlantis - Christian O'Brien - 18th February 1985 - Widdington - Essex - England



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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 04:20:36 pm »

A Reconstruction of the Main Island of Plato's Atlantis - Christian O'Brien - 18th February 1985 - Widdington - Essex - England



INTRODUCTION

Christian O'Brien in Chapter 18 of The Shining Ones features the basic historical and geological evidence which identifies the Azores as the site of the Island of Atlantis. In an outstanding career as exploration geologist he is no stranger to successfully challenging established perceptions and raises the key issue of the deep crustal rifting associated with such flood basalt constructions.

He has produced the survey of the Island, shown within the attached documents taken from Admiralty Charts, which have now been superseded by the more accurate Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map also shown. Further detailed hydrographic input is required in order to present a even clearer picture to allow further studies and the siting for new sediment cores in un-disturbed areas.

The technology needed to prove or disprove the Atlantis issue is now available. Science has reached the point of being able to understand both the creation of' such large structures and the subsequent catastrophic movements in the earths crust, which have destroyed them. Finding and dating the remains of fresh water life at depths of up to 4000 metres, finding coral, sandy beaches and volcanic material below sea level and identifying former river valleys is within reach and we look forward to providing further news on this subject later in the year.

So far this century there has been a confirmed report of a one mile rise in the floor of the ocean 576 miles north of Azores when a trans-atlantic cable broke. Dr David F. Zhirov in 1970 reported sand beaches and coral at a depths of 2 miles south of the Azores. Confirmed evidence exists that sections of the Mid-Atlantic ridge have been above sea level in the past and fresh water diatoms have been found 2 miles down in the Azores area dated 10,000 to 12,000 BC.

Volcanic material described as un-dissolved tachylite was found on Telegraph Bank 500 miles north of Azores, indicating that it had been laid down above sea level at some time between 50,000 BC and 10,000 BC. Sediment core analysis at locations off the coast of Africa have proved a 2 mile sinkage of volcanic island structures similar to those of the Azores.

The more detailed evidence provided by the latest underwater surveys will assist in identify the former glacial sea level, and locating the river canyons of' a large island where rivers Joined the sea before sea levels rose, thus matching the river canyon features of the American, European and African continental shelves.

Open minds are required to concentrate current resources on the many disciplines required to re-create or resolve this mystery which has immense importance to our understanding of human origins and human diffusion. In particular, migrations from Africa to the America's from 60,000 BC.

Important knowledge has been gathered at other sites on flood basalt formations, collapsed volcanic cones, plate tectonics, deep crustal rifting together with the rebound by up to 1km of the thick and old earths crust freed from the weight of glacial ice and the compensatory sinkage of perhaps up to 4km In the fragile young and thin oceananic crustal areas adjacent to major active fault zones.

The Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map, contoured in metres, shows the islands of the Azores as the volcanic peaks of the worlds greatest Mountain range. The area is bounded on the west by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge rift valley fault, to the north by the Kurchatov Fracture Zone, on the east by deep ocean, and on the whole southern flank by the massive and deep East Azores Fracture Zone. Here we can see the three major tectonic plates which converge in this fragile crustal area, making it perhaps the most unstable structure on the planet.

There is no doubt that world sea levels have risen on average some 400 feet since the maximum influence of the Ice Age, although the identification of shore lines at this date around 16,500 BC must be considered in the light of much greater compensatory movements in the earths crust and other factors. Certainly a large island at this latitude would have been a suitable glacial refuge for plants, animals and man, during a highly inhospitable, cold and extremely dry climatic phase with so much of the earths moisture locked tip within Ice sheets.

Sea level rises may have been relatively stable in the area of Atlantis until two accelerated sea rises, due to massive melt water discharges, from land/ice locked lakes around 12,000 BC (50-40cm per annum) and 9,300 BC (30-20 mm per annum). A third and final accelerated rise took occured between 6,000 and 5,500 BC as result of further melt water discharges. The process of' sea level rise took place as the earth warmed to the highest levels recorded for over 120,000 years, peaking before 2350 BC by some 3C higher than current levels.

The observational evidence of the geological structure of the Azores Islands, above and below current sea level, does provide evidence of river systems, which must have been created by a much larger land area. However not enough convincing evidence exists because of substantial past volcanic activity, subsidence and land slippage within the area. This creates problems in searching both for ancient remains or biological evidence that may still exist.

Catastrophic flooding, collapse and sinking at around 9,500 BC has been suggested by many historical sources and it has now become a simple matter for science to prove or disprove the thesis. Confirmation and dating of a very large sunken island requires access to and analysis of just a few sediment cores and a search for underwater structures in key locations. These may exist from just below the surface of the sea down to a depth of 11,000 feet.

It is important to realise that the O'Brien survey and the small adjustment for tilt re- creates the island as clearly described by Plato and many other independent and unconnected sources. The major building structures, if they still exist, will lie to the south west of the great plain in an area covered by the greatest depth of.' water close to the catastrophic crustal rifting of the East Azores Fault Zone, which can be clearly seen on the Institute of Oceanographic Sciences map.

We have featured more than 30 important books on our recommended reading list, which in total have produced a weight of evidence to support the basic thesis presented by O'Brien, spanning from the common records of the earliest antiquity to serious modern research. Only now are we beginning to appreciate the stature and reliability of the records presented by Solon and Plato, and accept recent Scientific explanations for related dramatic crustal rifting movements and vertical movements of the earths crust.

On a world wide scale there is common story of a great flood preceded by exceptional rainfall and accompanied by earth quakes and volcanic eruptions. It may be of significance to state that tsunami tidal waves were not directly mentioned in connection with this great flood story and that modern science has identified and dated three distinct rapid rises and three small declines in sea level since the ice age as the worlds climate warmed. The first great flood may have held more significance to early man and Atlantis, than the many subsequent floods and other natural disasters. The latter include interruptions to the circulatory flow of the Gulf Stream through fresh water input/ice melt, and episodic cometary debris impacts.

We welcome further input into this project from all interested parties. The more detailed hydrographic information, which we hope to obtain from the Portuguese authorities and the Southampton University Oceanographic Department, will allow a few small steps to be made to either dismiss the existence of Atlantis at this site or confirm the detailed evidence to re-create the great legend as fact.


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