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What if there were no Heaven..?


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Author Topic: What if there were no Heaven..?  (Read 1214 times)
HereForNow
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 07:28:09 pm »

 Roll Eyes  Whistles......

(Tap dances in place)
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HereForNow
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 07:31:46 pm »

THE QUESTION


Written by Sue Bohlin     
"I Am So Afraid--What If There Is No Heaven?"
I am writing to you because I am very concerned and don't know where to turn for help. I am a Christian and have always felt I had a great deal of faith. I lost my father, my mother and an older sister over the years -- and my faith sustained me during those traumatic times.
Recently our 38 year old daughter died quite suddenly. I am just overwhelmed with grief -- and I believe the medications given her caused her sudden death. She had kidney problems -- but her doctor was aware of that, and the med he gave her should not have been given to her because of her kidney problems.
Now I seem to have lost my faith completely. I cry and want so much to know she is OK and that she is not sad and lonely as we are here without her. I have begun to question if there really is a Heaven? I read recently that Heaven is something Christians invented to take away their fear of death. Is this true? I also read a book called Embraced by the Light by Betty Eadie, and it really upset me. She claimed to have had an out of body experience where she went to Heaven, and then she wrote a whole book about what heaven is like -- and the different levels there, and how one may stay at a lower level, or advance to a higher level.
I am so afraid -- what if there is no Heaven? Or if there is, is my daughter sad and lonely because none of her family are there with her? I just don't know anymore what to believe. I try to pray -- but find no peace. I am so afraid.
 
 
Dear ______,
I am so very, very sorry to hear of your tremendous loss. You must be in such shock you don't know how to "do life" at this point.
As a mother who has also lost a daughter, I want to encourage you in how the Lord comforted me. Most especially, I am comforted by the truth of Psalm 139:16--"All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be."
______, your daughter didn't live one day less than God intended for her to live from before the foundations of the earth. It FEELS like a premature death to us who are left behind, but no one is more powerful than God, and HE is the one who determines the length of our days. So even though it is hugely painful and grievous, and even though it's tempting to blame the medications, she died on the day God knew she would die and planned for her to die. Not a day sooner, and not a day later.
Secondly, Jesus said He came from heaven (John 6:51). It is a real place. If there is no heaven, then Jesus lied. If Jesus lied, then he was not the holy Son of God, and His death was meaningless. If His death was meaningless, then none of us have any hope. But our hope is REAL and TRUE! He died to make it possible for us to be united with God and reunited with our believing loved ones.
Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:6,8). If your daughter trusted Christ, she is immersed in a living sea of light and love and glory, worshiping the Lord Jesus and enjoying the freedom that comes from being released from this fallen, decaying world. When she "graduated" from your womb to your arms, did you ever worry that she was lonely for the comfort of the dark, warm place inside you? I bet not! <smile> She was in a far, far better place when she was born. When people are in heaven, it's like graduating from the womb to our mother's arms only way, WAY better. Being with the Lord is so much better than this earth that we can't even begin to imagine it, any more than the pre-born infant can imagine what it's like to be nestled in her mother's arms, to look in her eyes, to see a glorious sunset, to listen to a symphony. To eat ice cream! To love and love back. . . all those things cannot be imagined in the womb, but they await the baby, just as the joys of heaven await us if we have trusted Christ as our Savior.
I want to suggest to you that you read Joni Eareckson Tada's wonderful book Heaven, because it will make you much more familiar with heaven and it will greatly comfort your heart. Unlike Betty Eadie's book Embraced by the Light, Joni's book is TRUE and based completely on the Bible.
I pray you will know the warmth of God's comfort in growing measure as you grieve the loss of your daughter. One of the things that makes heaven so real to me is knowing that my daughter and my parents are there. I pray the realness of heaven will grow for you as well.
In His grip,
Sue Bohlin
Probe Ministries

 
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HereForNow
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 07:39:58 pm »

Please listen to this radio Broad cast from a mother who is there for other moms. The topic of "if there is a heaven"......

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/show.aspx?showid=22110
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rockessence
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2008, 10:11:22 pm »

Roll Eyes  Whistles......

(Tap dances in place)

Ha!!

Well, the discussion pretty much must have a basis that allows semantics and basic beliefs to be understood between the participants.  The last I heard, the basic Christian belief is of ONE LIFE per person, and good bye and on to heaven or hell or stop off in purg. if you are orthodox.

I have not had any of those beliefs for many decades.  People live and derive comfort in whatever form they are able to stomach or assimilate over time.

The statements I made in the posts above is how I see it.  I have been all argued out a long long  time ago.  No need to even go there...I don't have any special or arcane knowledge... these things are not hidden from view, but are available to any searcher.  I search, meditate, and absorb.... it is all worth thought and meditation.
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ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
HereForNow
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2008, 07:10:08 pm »

As we have discussed in the past Rockessence, I to beleive that there is much more to the spiritual side of things then anyone else has discussed. Even our emotions in life are something strongly connected to a spiritual source within our life energies.

To simply explain Heaven is only scratching the surface of alot of factors.
It's more that you have to feel that connection.
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rockessence
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2008, 03:19:27 am »


It is interesting to ponder.... how all life is composed of light/resonance....

Each part of our body is
Each feeling we have is
Each thought we have is
Everything we experience is

I think the quicker we get this idea firmly embedded, the sooner we become connected to spirit source and are able to function as we are designed to.  That is Heaven.  Our prime directive is COMPASSION.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 05:37:05 pm by rockessence » Report Spam   Logged

ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
Trina Kennedy
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2008, 10:44:16 pm »

There has to be a heaven, and a hell, too, for that mater.  If there weren't, how else could the religious fundies scare everyone and keep them in line?  Cheesy
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HereForNow
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2008, 07:07:32 am »

I like thinking of it as deeper sence. However Trina I do agree that this is what "The Churches" do tell us.
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Jake
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2008, 10:36:52 am »

Sorry about the lack of participation here recently. I have been out in the "woods". The general collective energy of society is such that one must recharge after dealing with it for too long a period.

Nevertheless,

Quote
"... all life is composed of ..... resonance..."

Once more people begin to realize this fact (dare I say), then this world would take a dramatic change, for the better. Wink

Quote
"Only if we are not in a metal box or urn and we are turned back to the natural mineral processes....  How few of us in the western world are...."

People, society as a whole, is far too removed from the natural order of things. If one were to step back into nature for a while, I think that this fear of death, that so many people hold so close, would greatly diminish. Losing this idea of "death" would serve to make people live life. In doing so there might even be a few people that come to the understanding that everything is the same. All (to include God) things are nothing but energy.

Alas, I am daydreaming. Have you seen what happens when people "get back to nature"? I passed thru one area in the 'Olympic Mts.' that left me speechless. The amount of trash and shear disregard for other living things , from the "outdoor" types, made me want to send them to answer the question: "What if there were no Heaven..?"

It is nice to know that there may still be a few points of light left in my fading view of humanity. HereForNow & rockessence, and a few others, you make this website.

I am taking a break from the other topics that I generally post in. The use of reason and human compassion seems to have left them. Smiley 

Jake

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HereForNow
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2008, 05:54:51 pm »

Jake you are one of my favorites too buddy. I would rather have a nice conversation myself.
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Anassa
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2008, 09:43:13 am »


Hi guys. I hope you don't mind me butting in. I know I haven't posted in quite a while but I try to keep track of the discussions, and Dawn (bless her) contacts me occasionally to see if I'm still alive Smiley
I used to really love the discussions on the forum and on AR and jumping in if and when I thought I had a bright idea.  Seems like a long time ago when I was enthusiastic about how everything worked in the universe, why we are here, what happens when we die etc.
In the last few years I found myself no longer interested in such things as whether Jesus was real or not. It didn’t seem to matter. Only the message was important somehow.
So for the past couple of years each time I have wanted to participate, something stopped me. I felt I really had nothing of interest to impart. In fact I found myself in a process of dropping things rather than taking them up.
Every time I came across what I thought was a new insight or way forward, shortly thereafter I was forced to drop it. Each time I thought I had a handle on the so-called spiritual path, I was rudely awakened to the fact, that I didn’t, and I am grateful for that.
For the ultimate slap in the face, every ‘spiritual seeker’ should be made to read “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” by Chögyam Trungpa Smiley
Even before reading this book, I had thankfully stopped sharing what I was reading with my close friends, not because I don’t want to share, but because the urge not to was stronger. I was probably boring them to tears anyway Smiley
But there was a feeling somehow that I should not assume they needed to take up the ‘spiritual path’ to make their lives better or to solve their problems, no matter how much I wanted to help them in their pain.
They say if wisdom does not lead you to seek God, pain will.
I have a friend who, although she believes in God in a strictly religious (occasional) sense, lives a life bouncing between joy and pain. She is not interested in a spiritual path. Her “God-self” has chosen this way forward, and despite the pain and confusion she endures in her life, at least she is ‘living’ it fully and I am obliged to leave her alone unless she asks.
Another friend who doesn’t believe in God has this amazing philosophy on life: “I have a problem. I can’t solve it right now. I’m going for a pint”.
I admire both of these souls tremendously, and only last week came across this online book, which seems to bear out the notion that being on a ‘spiritual path’, in the sense it is known nowadays, is a meaningless concept.
When I was starting out I developed an aversion to the word ‘God’, and preferred to use such words as Universe, Divinity etc. Lately I have developed the same aversion to the word ‘spiritual’, and if someone asked me tomorrow if I think God is an old man with a long white beard, I would probably say: “Yes…why not?
Anyway here is the passage I wanted to share that resonated with my current thinking, although I can’t guarantee that I won’t change my thinking again by tomorrow 

“Giving others the freedom to be stupid is one of the most important and hardest steps to take in spiritual progress. Conveniently the opportunity to take that step is all around us every day.
No matter how confused or stupid or unloving other persons may appear to us, we have no right ever to assume that their consciousness is on a lower level than ours. They may be realizing far deeper dimensions of love. The way we see them is an explicit measure of our own vibration level.
The state of mind that most needs enlightenment is the one that sees human beings as needing to be guided or enlightened.
There is absolutely no external evidence that will tell me how much you love yourself, because I am seeing you with the limited vision of my own vibrations. In that sense, what I see is myself.
If we always stand facing the higher light, like looking into the sun, our vision of the people around us will be distorted. But if we have the light coming over our shoulders, shining through us, we will see the beauty of others, we will be open to the light coming through all forms, and know the glory of the creation.”

http://freespace.virgin.net/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman/lazyman.html#contents

I know this thread is about the idea of heaven and initially it was a quote in the linked book that prompted me to post because I think it sums it up. The spiel above is by way of explanation of my long absence, and as usual rambled a bit Smiley

“When you learn to love hell, you will be in heaven.”
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It was a bright cold day in December and the clocks were striking thirteen.
rockessence
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2008, 11:27:12 am »

Heref, Jake, Anassa, and all,

Bless you for your inspiring words (and thoughts) for they are the pebbles tossed in the pond that re-echo forever....

I wrote a poem the other night on my shift at the hospital.... I am a "Patient Safety Attendant" so I just hang out with people who cannot be left alone for whatever reason...give lots of TLC...and sometimes the person is out of it the whole shift, which allows me to read, write, meditate, or all three...  So this was a combination of writing and meditation:

I asked to know the Truth, the Light,
Have nothing withheld from my sight.
We come, we go, we pass, we fail,
We chase the light back up the trail.

Once came to meet me, oldest friend,
My dearest love, whose hand was lent,
But now I know my way so clear,
I leap into this atmosphere.

A luminescence, like a pearl,
Beckons me to my home world
Looming far before me now
The crystal spires, row on row.

This shimmering road leads me to find
My bathing place where I unwind,
Where I can cleanse away the soil,
The long long years of fruitful toil.

Now I’m free, now I am me,
Now vision returns, now I can see..
Now scintillating Love floods through,
Replacing life with Light of Truth.

I rush to meet with those who guide,
I place my life now open wide
Before my eyes, my heart, my mind
To judge myself with Love refined

My life of passion and compassion
Working hard for full expression,
Pain and sexuality
And tempered anger’s futility

I see so clearly what must be
When next I sail the living sea
The cadence of my deep desire
Will thunder through me to inspire!

Off I go now, friends are waiting,
My heart is now reverberating,
Now I see them waving, grinning,
Round me now, their Love light’s spinning.

Dearest soulmate’s flames engulf me
Spinning nacreous colours float me,
While on every side the Love-shine
Glows full force from every heart-line.

Then soon I meet with treasured guides,
With ancient teachers by my side,
Informing Truth, it’s Light-vibration,
God the Matrix, all Creation

Melding Divine Love’s perfection,
Divine Wisdom in reflection
Divine Power gained through both
Love and Wisdom forming Truth

Let me keep the brilliant Light
Always centered in my flight
I AM in Light’s flaming shower
Of Divine Love, Wisdom, and Power.
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ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
HereForNow
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HUH?


« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2008, 03:43:47 pm »

Very well written, presenting a kind of order involving stages of ascendence.

\m/ [-_-] \m/

 Wink Becoming one with the universe.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 03:44:58 pm by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Volitzer
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2008, 04:12:54 am »

Sorry about the lack of participation here recently. I have been out in the "woods". The general collective energy of society is such that one must recharge after dealing with it for too long a period.

Nevertheless,

Quote
"... all life is composed of ..... resonance..."

Once more people begin to realize this fact (dare I say), then this world would take a dramatic change, for the better. Wink

Quote
"Only if we are not in a metal box or urn and we are turned back to the natural mineral processes....  How few of us in the western world are...."

People, society as a whole, is far too removed from the natural order of things. If one were to step back into nature for a while, I think that this fear of death, that so many people hold so close, would greatly diminish. Losing this idea of "death" would serve to make people live life. In doing so there might even be a few people that come to the understanding that everything is the same. All (to include God) things are nothing but energy.

Alas, I am daydreaming. Have you seen what happens when people "get back to nature"? I passed thru one area in the 'Olympic Mts.' that left me speechless. The amount of trash and shear disregard for other living things , from the "outdoor" types, made me want to send them to answer the question: "What if there were no Heaven..?"

It is nice to know that there may still be a few points of light left in my fading view of humanity. HereForNow & rockessence, and a few others, you make this website.

I am taking a break from the other topics that I generally post in. The use of reason and human compassion seems to have left them. Smiley 

Jake



Couple of trips to Venus and Earth humanity will be well on its way.
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Anassa
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2008, 03:46:51 pm »

That's a very beautiful poem rockessence. Thank you for sharing it Smiley
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It was a bright cold day in December and the clocks were striking thirteen.
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