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The Russians' Findings

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Bianca
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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2007, 07:35:49 pm »





                                                                                                 continued



Still, the Soviets and scientists in Eastern European countries have
often taken Atlantis more seriously than the Americans have. 

Zdenek Kukal, a skeptical Czech geologist, considered the possibility
that the current islands of the mid-Atlantic ridge are the remains of
Atlantis.

All the islands on the ridge are extremely volcanic and unstable.  The
Azores, located west of Spain, are one of the most likely locations for
Atlantis. All lie on an extensive submarine plateau that has a depth of
a little more than a mile and an area of about 50,000 square miles.

The Azores are an active site of seafloor spreading and have substantial
earthquake and volcanic activity.  There are many flat-topped submarine
peaks in the area.  Of special interest is a major gravity anomaly, indica-
ting an excess of mass under the Azores plateau.

Also intriguing is the presence of numerous stone pebbles of non-local
origin; granite, sandstone, limestone and other, with no good explanation
of how they got there.
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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2007, 07:45:39 pm »





                                                                                                         continued



The entire plateau is older than the Miocene ( a geological period that
ended roughly 7 million years ago), and must have started forming when
the Atlantic Ocean began expanding in the Cretaceous period, which en-
ded roughly 65 million years ago. 

Substantial parts of the plateau were once above water and there has
been a great deal of uplift and dowfaulting in the past.

Kukal, however, like most other geologists, does not accept the idea of
recent catastrophes.  He agrees that most of the Atlantic islands, includ-
ing the larger ones, were formed in relatively short and sporadic periods
of volcanic activity, separated by much longer periods of quiescence.  But
he feels it is unlikely that the Azores plateau could have been above water
to any great degree in 10,000 BC.
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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2007, 07:53:48 pm »





                                                                                                continued



One of the most intriguing pieces of evidence was published by R.W. Kolbe,
a Swedish geologist, in 1957.  Kolbe studied cores drilled at a depth of about
two miles in the mid-Atlantic ridge between the Caribbean and North Africa,
in what might have been the southern portion of Atlantis.

He reported in SCIENCE finds of exclusively freshwater plants (diatoms) in
portions of the cores.  He concluded, in part, that this portion of the mid-
Atlantic ridge was once above sea level and that the diatoms had originated
in a fresh water lake.

Kolbe discusses Atlantis as a serious proposition.  He cites another geologist,
Rene Malaise, who felt that parts of the mid-Atlantic ridge must have existed
as large islands up to the end of the last ice age or later and were submerged
in early historical times.
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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2007, 08:01:15 pm »





                                                                                        continued


Kolbe's finds and similar discoveries led skeptics to try to explain
them away.

The two main explantions were wind-blown dust and undersea "turbidity
currents that carried material from continental rivers.  Many geologists
favour these alternative explanations.

For example, J.K. Rigby and L.H. Burckle, in a 1958 SCIENCE article, pre-
ferred the turbidity current explanation; others have presented evidence
that windblown sand might explain deep-sea sand far from land.

Kolbe answered these criticisms by pointing out that either mechanisms
would likely lead to mixtures of freshwater and oceanic diatoms, whereas
he found a layer of pure freshwater diatoms.

Still, the debate continues - often with much heat, but on a scientific,
not an occult level.
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« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2007, 08:11:33 pm »





                                                                                                      continued



The most extensive serious study of the possibility of Atlantis was
published by Soviet scientist N. Zhirov in 1970.

Zhirov discusses the great complexity of the geology of the mid-
Atlantic ridge, citing over 800 references and faulting American geo-
logists for being unaware of foreign publications, especially the Soviet
ones!

It is Zhirov's contention that the freshwater diatoms, deep-sea pebbles
and sand and eroded terraces on the Mid-Atlantic ridge are true anomalies,
suggesting that large parts of the ridge were once above water.

Whether Zhirov is right awaits further evidence, but he is certainly more
thorough than his critics.



FROM


MYSTERIES OF ATLANTIS

By Edger Evans Cayce





A new, updated MYSTERIES OF ATLANTIS is being published any day
now and it will be interesting to see if any further details have come
from Russia's investigation of Atlantis.

Bianca

 
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dhill757
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« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2007, 12:31:43 am »

Hi Bianca,

This section contains one of the pictures from the Russian expeditions to the Ampere Seamounts.  I understand that those pictures are missing from your copy of the Berlitz book:

 
   
   
 
   
3.2 The Discovery of the Russians

It is suggested that Atlantis did not sink into the sea but rather was “drowned” by the ocean due to the rising waters brought about by the melting of the glacial ice. There is an implication that the present small islands where Atlantis once existed might be found on seamounts, plateaus and marine valleys surrounding it and in underwater traces of buildings or walls indicating the existence of an advance culture in the past. Russian underwater research provided certain measure of corroboration for this theory.

Russia , although far from the Atlantic Ocean maintained interest in the Atlantic and in the tradition of the lost continent of Atlantis. An expedition carried out by the Academician Petrovsky, a Russian research ship, photographed seafloor topography and archaeological relics where legendary Atlantis was supposedly located. The aim and the result of the expedition, which took place in the early part of 1974, was summarized by Barinova and appeared in Znanie-Sila (no.8, 1979).

On board the ship were geologists, biologists and an underwater photograph specialist named Ivanovich Marakuev who studied the sandbanks of Mediterranean Sea shallow waters and of the Atlantic Ocean not far from the Northwest Africa . It is the origin, structure and population of the sandbanks, the peaks of underwater mountains that are the prime scientific interest of those specialists.



Photos taken at the Horse Archipelago (300 miles west of Gibraltar ) especially at the summit of Ampere Seamount, an underwater plateau that was thrust upwards from a depth of 10,000 ft. to 200 ft. below the sea level showed unexpected features. These pictures show masonry on an upper edge of a wall. It is about 1.5 meters high and slightly longer in length. Its width is approximately 75 centimeters (Berlitz, 1984).

The Russian discovery at the Ampere Seamount was not published for several years until worldwide publicity came in 1978 via an interview of Prof. Andrei Aksyonov, then the deputy director of the Institute of Oceanography of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Prof. Aksyonov while cautious on the Atlantean identification of the ruins believed that the objects in the picture once stood on the surface of the land . An AP release issued by Alexander Nesterenko, then the director of the Fleet Department of the Institute of Oceanography , confirmed the report that the Russian research ship has taken pictures of “ what might be ruins” but denied reports that Vityaz, another research ship was investigating the same site. (See Image 4) 
 
http://www.keystonecode.net/research8.htm
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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2007, 08:51:16 am »




DHill;

I am sorry I missed this post.  Yes, the underwater pictures fell off my copy of the book and who
knows what became of them.

Thank you for posting your copy's of them here.  Too bad that they are awfully hard to 'read'.


Love and Peace,
b
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Bianca
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« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2007, 09:14:05 am »



DHill,

As you know, unfortunately, your thread AN ATLANTIC - BASED ATLANTIS was nastily hijacked by
the 'resident TROLL'. 

I managed to save your information on LYBIAN DESERT GLASS in a new section in WARFARE IN THE
ANCIENT WORLD titled "Lybian Desert Glass".


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1760.msg17231.html#msg17231
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dhill757
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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2007, 07:15:39 am »




DHill;

I am sorry I missed this post.  Yes, the underwater pictures fell off my copy of the book and who
knows what became of them.

Thank you for posting your copy's of them here.  Too bad that they are awfully hard to 'read'.


Love and Peace,
b

Hi Bianca,

Thanks for saving the info on Libyan glass, it is very informative and they are the best pictures of the glass that I have come across.

The pictures are really grainy (you aren't missing much, they were taken during the early 70s, underwater, with poor lighting).  I understand there were only eight of them, and I have seen, all told, about three or four of them, none of whom are very convincing.  Hopefully, someone will return to the site someday and take some better ones!
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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2007, 07:18:57 am »

I came across this upon the Russians' research into Atlantis.  I printed it in my own thread but I will print it here, too, so that it doesn't get lost. The rest of the page is only of general interest, but it supplies some interesting details about Zhirhov and the Russians expeditions to the Ampere Seamounts.

Spain and Portugal

            The Ancient Mediterranean Research Association held an important Congress in Cadiz, Spain in 1973. Maxine Asher, an archaeologist and explorer of underwater cities off the coast of Spain, organized the event as described in the March 1973 issue of Atlantis in Sykes’ article, The Cadiz Congress Of 1973.
            In 1979, two Soviet professors Dr. A.A. Aksyenov of the Oceanographic Institute and Dr. Marcello Vasconelos of the Fishery Research Institute announced a remarkable discovery made by a recent expedition on the Ampere Seamount between Madeira and the Portuguese-Spanish coast. The event was described in the May and November 1979 issues of New World Antiquity in Russian Discoveries On The Ampere Seamount by Egerton Sykes and Russian Under Sea Discoveries On Atlantis by Mr. Barinov. The research vessel Kurtachov took eight undersea photographs showing lines of brick or stone walls plus fragments of a wide flight of steps. The pictures were taken from the Horseshoe archipelago that is linked with the islands of Madeira, Porto Santo, and Dezerta, and with the Gettysburg bank. Sykes stated that the ruins could not be part of Atlantis but may be contemporary. An Atlantean site would more likely be found a mile or so south of the triangle formed by Santa Maria, St. Miguel, and the Formigas Rocks, at the eastern extremity of the Azores. He believed the finds to be part of the European African continental shelf and probably submerged about 6000 BC.

ZHIROV

            Dr. N. Th. Zhirov was a personal friend of Sykes for over twenty years. Unfortunately, Zhirov suffered from injuries received in World War II and never got out of Russia actually to see the Atlantic Ocean about which he wrote so much. Zhirov quoted early Russian classical sources; thus, he was an outstanding contributor to the study of Atlantis. He was very scientific and absolutely objective, and set a standard for Russian Atlantology. Zhirov died in December 1970 in Moscow. His obituary was published in the January 1971 issue of Atlantis.

Russians and Atlantis

            The earliest original work on Atlantis was written by A.S. Norov and published in 1854 in Russian and German. In 1917, appeared one of the most serious works by V. Bryusov, the famous Russian poet, who was engaged in the scientific study of the problem until his death. He gave all of the data available as evidence that Atlantis was the cradle of the majority of subsequent civilizations. In the 1930’s, there was considerable interest in the problem with articles in small popular science brochures and the publication of B.L. Bogaevsky, a prominent Soviet historian, who dismissed the lost continent. Almost twenty-five years followed, in which not a single work on the subject appeared in the USSR. Impetus was given in 1954 by E. Andreeva’s most popular science book about Atlantis, Easter Island, and Sannikov’s land, in which she used scientific geological and oceanographic data to demonstrate the undoubted reality of Atlantis.
            In 1963, Sykes received a Christmas card from Zhirov which had postage stamps issued in Russia commemorating two well known scientists who were also famous Atlantologists — Vladimir Obzuchev, Member of the Academy 1863-1956, and Valery Brussov, the famous poet and Atlantologist.

Some Of Zhirov’s Writings

            In 1957, Zhirov published Atlantis in Moscow, a most informative book on Atlantis with a bibliography that included no fewer than eighty references in Russian, plus sixty references in other languages. The book was only available in Russian. Zhirov was an active contributor to Atlantis journal. In the November 1957 issue of Atlantis, Sykes published A Letter From Dr. Zhirov & A Short Contents Of The Book Atlantis, and in the September 1958 issue of Atlantis, An Open Letter From Dr. Zhirov To All Atlantologists was published.
            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov, who was always looking for evidence that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was once above sea level, reported in An Indisputable Demonstration Of The Great Subsidence Of The Mid-Atlantic Ridge,that N.N. Gorskiy’s book The Secrets of the Ocean, Moscow, 1960, showed two photographs of shallow water corals grown on rock, dredged up from the Mid Atlantic ridge from a depth of twenty-five-hundred meters by the Soviet oceanographic expedition ship Mikhail Lomonossov. No Carbon-14 dates available.            In January 1962 in Atlantis, Zhirov wrote A Critical Analysis Of The Material Culture Of Plato’s Atlantis in which Plato mentions iron, gold, silver, copper, tin, orichalcum (a copper alloy?), and the antiseismic architecture of Egypt and Mesopotamia.
            On April 22, 1964, Dr. Zhirov’s The Existence and Destruction of Atlantis was read to the Leningrad House of the Scientists Geological-Geographical Section. The report gathered more than one-hundred-and-fifty scientists and students for two-and-a-half hours. The event was reported in the October 1964 issue of Atlantis in an article titled Atlantological News From The USSR.
            Zhirov’s Atlantida was published in 1964 by the State Publishing House of Moscow. The preface was written by the editor, Professor Demetrius G. Panow, Doctor of Geological Sciences. The book was published in Romanian in 1967, while Sykes ranted impatiently that no copies were available in French and English. In the book, Zhirov painstakingly reviewed the latest knowledge of the formation of continents, structure of mountains and submarine ridges, seismic processes, cosmological influences, tectonic origins, and the effects of glaciations on the distribution of flora and fauna, and changes produced by the Gulf Stream. The accumulated evidence indicated that a land mass could have existed in the Atlantic. If this view could be proved, it would lead to a complete reversal of the views generally held concerning the migration and development of man.
            Atlantis, Atlantology: Basic Problems was published in Moscow in 1970. At the time, this book was the most extensive attempt to produce geological and geographical proof that Atlantis really existed. The great complexity of the geology of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is discussed. There was a thirty-five page bibliography of eight-hundred references. Sykes owned this book in three languages. The book was reviewed in the November 1971 issue of New World Antiquity.


http://www.seachild.net/new232932.html
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« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2007, 08:16:11 am »




Thank you, DHill.  As usual, great info!

Too bad the Russians have not lost their habit of secretiveness.....

Love and Peace,
b
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Bianca
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« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2007, 08:57:29 pm »




I ran into this while pursuing somethig else:





                                           Russia Atlantis information




This is a Letter sent to Dean Clarke BLS of  http://Atlantisite.com  or A.R.J

From the Russian Atlantology Researcher -Alexander Voronin  President of Russian society on studying of the problems of Atlantis (ROIPA) 

site about the Russia interest http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10080_atlantis.html 


       

The I letter I have put on line with the help of  A. Voronin was to show what in Russia they have noted about and working on the furthering of public information on the Atlantis proofs and or issues within their own country, and in a friendly show of support to the Old World views of Atlantis compared to our New World views this has been put online for those to review about new leads in Atlantis Research.

This communication has been occurring for 2 years for this letter to be received due to limited translation access but finally the big story from Russia has come about the 3 to 4 centuries of Russian interest about the Atlantis Myth and Legend or potential real history.

Most do not know that in Great Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, and North Africa great works written about Atlantis have been ongoing for at least 4 to 3 Centuries and now here is the Russian version of what they have contributed to this subject.

I do not mean to not include works of Greece, Crete, Egypt, Israel, Middle East, Asia Minor, or Persia as not monumental in historical work about Atlantis they have all indeed given extremely important parameters in how, when, why, and where questions i.e. to look for that lost realm.

The information on Atlantis all should know involve some of the rarest resource information in the world about that subject for many reasons. The main one is that when speaking about something that occurred say from 100,000 to 600 BC of a completely lost Continent or scattered to almost non-recognition it has taken 100 years of archaeology just to even establish any plausibility and with out those researcher plugging away we all would be up in arms and never even ask the question of Atlantis with our heads in the sand.

Proof is not in the proving of the said existence of Atlantis as much as it is the journey of the search of its possibility until all information is in or final to establish whether or not it did exist. This is why skeptics are welcomed along with other researchers because any question can be a good question usually not wasted completely or just cast to the side.

Although the information below maybe in some limited cases controversial about the Governments of both USA and Russia having a little to much to not say about the subject of Atlantis yet seemingly to be keenly interested about the subject when it literally shows up in artifacts, yet in their posture remains low profile to the public.

I think the letter is somewhat warranted in some of those controversial comments by Voronin in light of past history of many Governments reactions ranging from overly cool to hostile reactions about the subject of Atlantis as considered to many atlantologist a fairly irrational response in light of goofy propaganda attempts they sometimes make when something big for historical purposes is found.

Remember if you control the worlds history you control the world is maybe what they think but does not sound like a very spiritual credo to me!

Truth is a funny thing it depends on how it is used and how it is to help the world essentially, but if the world has dumb people in powerful positions no one do I think could get out of the low IQ tele-garbage that they constantly hit the airwaves with of incorrect propaganda on behalf of any of the worlds true history of ancient man.

Maybe Edgar Cayce,  E.P.Blavatskaya, Rudolph Stiener, E. Sykes, Dr. Zhirov and Heinrich Schlimann beat all the world to this historical point for a spiritual reason?                         

 The carpet rug my friends on the floor is lumpy with weird arti-facts underneath it; do not let them tell you ever otherwise, less it be some others power and ego alone that tells you otherwise!

Also, the website does not disagree nor agree with any opinions put forward in the letter below but we do feel it is considered highly important information about Atlantis research and indebted to A. Voronin as well done research.                         

The World of Atlantology is exceedingly proud!
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« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2007, 08:59:16 pm »







Dear   Dean!

                                        I send to you material for publication.

                                        With best regards
                                        Voronin Alex.






                Alexander Voronin



    The development of Russian atlantology and the problem of Atlantis






    First about atlantology as a science  the famous Russian scientist and atlantologist Nikolay Feodosyevich Zhirov spoke (1903-1970). In 1964 his famous book “Atlantis. The major problems of atlantology” was published where the scientist formulated it’s principles and methods. According to his words atlantology as a science may be considered as one of the parts of biogeography of the modern Quarternary period (antropogen) of geological history of Earth and of that very part of it which dates chronologically to the time of formation of homo sapiens, time spontaneously preceding to our historical epoch starting from the last glaciery.

    Studying this problem it is necessary to take into account a lot of factors: geological, paleobiological, comparative mythology. The task of scientific atlantology, as N.F. Zhirov writes to reveal the truth which is contained in different historical sources and myths, and among them in Plato’s story, and to find the corroborative facts and thoughts in the dataset received from different scientific disciplines. For the solution of these tasks atlantology attracts widely a lot of sciences: geology, archeology, oceanology, history, astronomy, astrophysics, antropology, etnography, mathematics, geophysics, volcanology and a lot of others.

    Russian atlantology starts from the middle of 18th century. Lomonosov at first mentions Atlantis in his works “The letter about earthquakes” (Spb.1756) and “The word of birth of the metals from the shaking of the earth” (Spb.1757). In 1760-1761 Lomonosov started a big epic poem “Peter the Great”. There he describes the march of Peter to the north. The great poet used northern Russian, Cholmogor and Solovetsk chronicles. One of the finest passages in poem- the description of Neptune palace in the northern waters. May be, Lomonosov knew some features of ancient Hyperborean continent in Northern ocean? He places the chambers and the throne of tsar in the valley between high stony mountains which resemble so much to the famous relief of the capital of Atlantis!

    The idea of ancient culture was originally developed by the other famous Russian poet Vasiliy Kapnist (1758-1823) in “Short search about hyperboreans” (1815). In the article Kapnist puts a question about origin of Slavs and about ancient sources of Russian art and poetry. He thought that the ancestors of Slavs were Hyperboreans and the last ones in their turn borrowed all their scientific and technical achievements, inventions, knowledge from Atlanteans.
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« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2007, 09:00:17 pm »







  Russian poets Nikolay Kluev and Alexander Block describe underwater Diamond Ice City- spiritual center of Russian Old Belief and also the symbolic ascent to snowy mountains in the North searching for God. The rich folklore tradition, legends of many nations of Europe and Asia tell about northern Aryan Motherland where Golden Age reigned.

    In Russia there was their own Atlantis- White Waters. White Waters- concealed Russian idea, which was met at old-believers, wanderers, holy country in the East, the place of fulfillment of cherished human wishes where the holy wise and just men live who kept thoroughly spiritual knowledge and true faith.

    Slavic nations of Ancient Rus have their own giants. Most likely, Rus was one of the northern colonies and lands of Hyperborea- Atlantis. The image of Sviatogor- the hero of Russian bylinas, the giant-bogatyr is provided with the same features as well as ancient Greek Atlant. In one of bylinas Sviatogor is trying to raise the bag with “the strength of the Earth” but sinks himself up to his knees into Earth. Zlatogorka, the daughter of Sviatogor lives somewhere behind the sea in Latyn (Altyn, Alatyr) kingdom, which is understood as Atlantis. Exactly Slavic legends tell us about the perished once great ancient land of Veles- Sviatogor- Dazhbog.

    In the first half of 19th century Avraam Norov made an attempt of scientific search of Atlantis in Mediterranean region resting upon  Arabian and Greek sources difficult of access.

    The greatest role in creation of occult legend about Atlantis was played by our fellow Atlantis patriot E.P.Blavatskaya whose monumental works “Disrobed Isis” (1877) and “Secret Doctrine” (1888) promoted further studying and spreading of esoteric heritage, including clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, channeling which gave to the world new data about island of Poseidonis.

    V.Briusov, K.Balmont, M.Menshikov, A.Bragin everybody by their own way describe the searches of Atlantis and even finds of this mysterious land. The anthology for the first time publishes the unknown still atlantological biographies of Vasily Kapnist (1758-1823), Avraam Norov (1795-1869), Helen Blavatskaya (1831-1891), Michail Menshikov (1859-1918), Vladimir Bogachev (1881-1965), Ignatius Donnelly (1831-1901) and other leading atlantologists doing justice to brave flight of thought and great courage to speak with scientific language about mythical country.
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« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2007, 09:01:16 pm »






 In Soviet times in 1964 the capital work of N. Zhirov “Atlantis.The major problems of atlantology” was published.


Till recent time  the book of Ignatius Donnelly “Atlantis. The antediluvian world” (1882) was considered the most fundamental. Russian scientist and atlantologist gathered great amount of material which nobody could gather before him. Zhirov analyzes thoroughly the legend of Plato about Atlantis basing on the newest data in geology, oceanology and also on the latest researches of Atlantic bottom. The scientist believes in Atlantis of the bronze epoch, in developed civilization on the big vanished island in Atlantic ocean.

    According to Zhirov, Atlantis included the area of North-Atlantic ridge right up to Romansh gutter including Azores plateau. Atlantis presented by itself a long continent consisting of three major parts: northern island on the base of Azores plateau- Poseidonida or Azorida, southern island of Antilia and Equatorial archipelago, the remains of which are the rocks of the island of San-Paulu. The scientist thought that the reason of destruction of Atlantis was natural tectonic process.

    The main inundation of Atlantis by this way consisted of two stages. The first apparently took place between 13 and 10 millenniums B.C., and the second, the most considerable,- between 9000 and 8000 B.C. The last remains of once vast territory of Atlantis sank already in 6 cent. B.C.

    In the last decades a great attention to the questions of Atlantis was paid by the scientist and writer, one of the eminent Russian atlantologists Vladimir Scherbakov. Scherbakov thinks that there existed two Atlanticas in different geographical regions: the first one ( in fact Atlantis of Plato)- in Atlantic, and the second one- Eastern Atlantis- included in itself the most ancient cities of Asia Minor and Mediterranean. The scientist affirms that Eastern Atlantis was founded by migrants from metropoly (Atlantis of Plato) before world catastrophe.

    Exactly from these regions: Frakia and Asia Minor went to their future Motherland the ancestors of European nations, among them the ancestors of  Slavs and Germans who created Asgard. The eastern path of veneds-atlanteans is described in the book of Scherbakov “Asgard- the city of gods” (1991).
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