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Communicating with the Dead (Original)

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Trent
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2008, 09:01:12 pm »

sangmele
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Rate Member   posted 01-19-2005 02:02 PM                       
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i remember, after my grandad died. i was about 14, in his room was two beds, i slept there and one night i awaked and i saw him sleeping in his. i said good night granpa and returned to sleep. the morning after i realized.
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Posts: 443 | From: poiuyt | Registered: Nov 2003
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2008, 09:01:44 pm »

Trent

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   posted 01-19-2005 10:01 PM                       
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Tracy, Rock & Sangmele,
I'm glad you like it. We've all lost loved ones, and I think that sooner or later they do try and communicate with us. I've never seen a ghost myself, but I do believe that there are people who have a certain empathy with them who do see them at times. My mom is like that. When her dad passed away, years ago, about a day afterwards, she saw him sitting in a chair, just staring at her. She told him. "It's alright, Dad, you can go," and then he just faded away.

The same thing happened when my father died. He had a rough illness and had really gone downhill in the end. A couple of nights after he died, though, he appeared to her again. Only, he didn't appear to her as the poor guy he ended up as, he appeared to he was in his prime: slim, handsome, even dressed in his army uniform. "Not yet," she told him, and then he, too disappeared.

I don't reall need to see a ghost to know they exist, and I do know they are trying to communicate with us. There's this period when they first pass on when they try the hardest, and then they move onto the other side (if they're lucky).


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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2008, 09:02:15 pm »

Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-19-2005 10:46 PM                       
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Interesting topic, Trent. I have an experience with the dead as well. A couple of years ago, my brother died an unnatural death - in my house. I was the one unlucky enough to find the body, it was a sight that, one way or another, will stay with me until the end of my days. He was always a very troubled soul and wasn't very happy in the end. I firmly believe that there are some people who just aren't built to make it in this world. At one time, we were close, and then we drifted apart, and I like to think of him as who he was, not who he came to be.
At this point, I would like to finish the sory by saying that I saw his ghost, but I never did. Apparently, I'm not a clairvoyant either. A relative of mine did see his ghost while staying over, though, and on more than one occasion. I know that because they described him in the exact same clothes that I found his body in. Odd that some things happen like this in this world. In this age of such modern technology, we still can't explain such a thing as ghosts and have yet to actually build any sort of device that would allow us to communicate with them.


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Posts: 446 | From: citizen of the world | Registered: Oct 2004
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2008, 09:02:40 pm »

MistahGray
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Rate Member   posted 02-03-2005 09:36 PM                       
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Hello All ! Nice Forums !
All of the above information on spirit communication are excellant reads. I myself, developed an avid interest in ITC only a couple months ago, and, although I am very skeptical about it, I have confidence in the belief of possibilities that I do not discount; probably because I have hopes that the afterlife is very real; I think most people wish this.

Finally, after over 30+ years of spiritual journeys and electronics experience, and almost nearly coming to an end of my journeying and turning into a total skeptic, I discovered ITC, or ITC has discovered me.

I invite all readers to follow my new pioneering beginnings into this amazing technology at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mrzeta/itcmain.html

I have yet to recieve my first voices!

I am nevertheless very excited and anxious.

Visit my site; I need all the support I can get. I am very confident in my electronics and physics abilities to come up with an interesting ITC device that has yet to be tried.

I have a few friends that are also working with similar devices, and progress is being made towards my first ITC device in a couple of weeks.

Sincerely,
Mr Gray





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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2008, 09:03:06 pm »

MistahGray
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Rate Member   posted 02-03-2005 09:39 PM                       
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OOps !
What I meant to say was, as in coming up with an interesting ITC device, that design is already in place, and came to me after a month deluge of ITC information on possible ITC devices.

Mistah Gray


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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2008, 09:03:43 pm »

Tina Walter

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   posted 02-04-2005 08:42 PM                       
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Sorry about your experiences, Dawn, that sounds like a grisly experience to have to go through. I was with my father when he died in the hospital. That was bad enough, even surrounded by doctors and nurses.
Welcome aboard, Mistah Gray. Nice website (and interesting music). I hope you like the forums. So I guess you're building one of these machines or is it built already..?



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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2008, 09:04:35 pm »

 
Trent

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   posted 03-14-2005 12:26 AM                       
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Pursuing the paranormal
West Barnstable group uses tools to identify voices from beyond

By JOE HEITZ
STAFF WRITER
YARMOUTHPORT - Three words.

"Did anybody answer?"

And David Sircom ripped off his headphones and backed against the wall.


David Sircom demonstrates his technique for recording electronic voice
phenomena in a Dennis cemetery. The sun provides the light atop the
tombstone.
(Staff photo by STEVE HEASLIP)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just three words.

His disbelief vanished.

"I always believed there was something after death," Sircom said, "but
not that you could interact with them."

He'd asked out loud if there were any spirits in his home that wanted to
communicate.

The first time he heard nothing.

A few hours later on that fall morning in 2000, he tried again.

Sircom started his tape recorder, asked his question and waited a few
moments. Then he transferred the silence he'd recorded onto his computer
and played it back.

And there it was.

"Did anybody answer?"

This query represented the first of many voices he's recorded, both in
his Yarmouthport home and places like the Dennis Cemetery.

"I believe they're dead people," Sircom said. "But who knows?"

Sircom, a public insurance adjuster, is now a member of the Cape
AndIslands Paranormal Research Society, a nonprofit organization that
researches the supernatural.

White noise
Proponents of Electronic Voice Phenomena - spotlighted in the 2005 movie
"White Noise" - maintain that spirits of the dead can speak through
electronic recordings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is EVP?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electronic Voice Phenomena is a process whereby the voice or voices of
the dead are embedded onto magnetic recording tape by a process we do
not understand.

The embedded "ghost" voice can be heard when the magnetic audiotape is
played back on a tape recorder/player or with a digital recorder. Ghost
voices are clear and do not sound like static, but some voices are weak
and found at the noise level.

Source: www.ghostweb.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena also suggests the
voices may be those of extraterrestrials or "entities who might best be
described as angelic."

What EVPs are is complex, with even its staunchest supporters sometimes
in disagreement over where they come from or what is said.

However, the process by which EVPs are obtained can be relatively
simple, Sircom said.

He recommended using any tape recorder - ideally with an external
microphone - and a low-noise, high-sensitivity tape. He then announces
himself and records any palette of white noise, ranging from a silent
room or radio static or water rushing down the drain.

Sircom finally runs the result through a computer program that optimizes
any unusual sounds on the recording.

Because you can't hear the phenomenon as it's happening, you never know
until you analyze the recording if any voices were captured, Sircom
said.

Sometimes it happens, but often there's nothing.


Analog and digital tape recorders are used to collect "white noise" for
paranormal research.
(Staff photo by STEVE HEASLIP)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"They either want to chat," Sircom said, "or they don't."

That's one of the reasons EVP should not be used as a bereavement tool,
he added. The voices are unreliable and their words are oftentimes
garbled - after all, the clipped, harsh EVP voice that said "I will see
you no more" could have said something less poignant like "I was seeing
the war."

Essentially, you can't continue any meaningful relationship with a
deceased loved one through a tape recorder and a computer, Sircom said.

"I've asked to speak to my parents," Sircom acknowledged. "But I've
never really gotten anything."

CAIPRS role
The Cape And Islands Paranormal Research Society, based in West
Barnstable, now uses EVP in its supernatural investigations.

"It's pretty good," said Derek Bartlett, CAIPRS founder and president.
"That's evidence, if it's answering specific questions."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the society
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cape And Islands Paranormal Research Society is the product of Derek
Bartlett's lifelong interest in the supernatural.

Members of CAIPERS range from 18-55 years old, said Bartlett, who works
as a software salesman.

The seven members - three men and four women - mostly come from the
Cape Cod and Plymouth areas.

CAIPRS holds monthly public meetings at Cape Cod Community College in
West Barnstable.

The group received official non-profit status last spring.

Its members aren't paid and its services are free. CAIPRS is bankrolled
through fund-raisers and private donations.

-- Joe Heitz

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAIPRS did 22 paranormal investigations in homes, cemeteries and
businesses across New England last year.

The tight group, Bartlett emphasized, is not Ghostbusters. They
painstakingly research reports of hauntings, examining and re-examining
data they collect, rather than rid a house of what may be haunting it.

EVP is simply one more tool in their arsenal, he explained.

"My team - I know - will not find absolute, 100 percent evidence of
ghosts," Bartlett said. "I hope we are stepping stones for those who
will."

Coincidence?
Not everyone is nearly so enamored with EVP.

Indeed, the whole notion of spirits communicating via electronics from
beyond the grave elicits a thorny tangle of scientific and religious
questions.

"If you look at the world around us, there's a huge amount of background
noise," said Craig Christensen, an electrical engineering professor at
Suffolk University in Boston.

Christensen said he's extremely skeptical of EVP, both for scientific
and religious reasons.

So where, then, do the voices that emerge on such recordings come from?

Christensen, a Mormon, said everything from far-off vacuum cleaners to
halogen lights to radio waves - even the agitation of atoms - can
produce tiny amounts of noise that could comprise the phenomenon.

Add it all up and mix in some chance, he said.

"The question is whether it's just a random coincidence or if it's
intelligible," Christensen said. "It gets into the realm where someone
has a potato chip that looks like Jay Leno."

But he added that he couldn't definitively discredit EVP - especially
since he views the matter as residing partially within religion.

"I also believe religious experiences don't always fall within
scientific method," Christensen said. "When you mix science and
religion, I don't necessarily see a conflict."

Selves as critics
Now ask Bartlett who CAIPRS' biggest skeptic is.


Sircom filters "white noise" through his computer in an effort to
detect sounds and voice patterns.
(Staff photo by RON SCHLOERB)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Myself," he replied. "We are the biggest skeptics and critics of what
we do. We have to have proof and evidence."

Sircom and Bartlett both say they don't rely on psychics or visionaries
in their investigations - no crystal balls or seances or ouiji boards.

The tools of their trade are technological.

Sircom uses tape recorders and his computer. Bartlett has a more
elaborate collection of items like an electromagnetic field detector and
a non-contact thermal scanner.

And if they can explain any possible paranormal event a more
conventional way, they do.

"If we can disprove it, that's what we do right away," Sircom said, a
tendency he credits in part to working as a licensed public insurance
adjuster.

However, Bartlett added ghost-hunting requires a balance of skepticism
and curiosity.

"You don't have to have a Ph.D. in parapsychology," he said. "All you
need is an open mind."

That one three-word question almost five years ago has evoked countless
more for Sircom.

"I thought it was baloney," he said, " 'til I got that response."

Who exactly answered? Or what? And why?

"Where are you?" Sircom once asked.

"Closer than you think," came the recording cryptic reply.

In the netherworld between science and the supernatural, little is
definitive.

"Did anybody answer?"

It depends who's listening.

(Published: March 6, 2005)

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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2008, 09:06:36 pm »

Absonite

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  posted 03-14-2005 05:28 AM                       
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3. THE PHENOMENON OF DEATH
112:3.1 Urantians generally recognize only one kind of death, the physical cessation of life energies; but concerning  personality survival there are really three kinds:


112:3.2 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


112:3.3 2. Intellectual (mind) death. When the vital circuits of higher adjutant ministry are disrupted through the aberrations of intellect or because of the partial destruction of the mechanism of the brain, and if these conditions pass a certain critical point of irreparability, the indwelling Adjuster is immediately released to depart for Divinington. On the universe records a mortal personality is considered to have met with death whenever the essential mind circuits of human will-action have been destroyed. And again, this is death, irrespective of the continuing function of the living mechanism of the physical body. The body minus the volitional mind is no longer human, but according to the prior choosing of the human will, the soul of such an individual may survive.


112:3.4 3. Physical (body and mind) death. When death overtakes a human being, the Adjuster remains in the citadel of the mind until it ceases to function as an intelligent mechanism, about the time that the measurable brain energies cease their rhythmic vital pulsations. Following this dissolution the Adjuster takes leave of the vanishing mind, just as unceremoniously as entry was made years before, and proceeds to Divinington by way of Uversa.


112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.

112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.


4. ADJUSTERS AFTER DEATH

112:4.1 When death of a material, intellectual, or spiritual nature occurs, the Adjuster bids farewell to the mortal host and departs for Divinington. From the headquarters of the local universe and the superuniverse a reflective contact is made with the supervisors of both governments, and the Monitor is registered out by the same number that recorded entry into the domains of time.

112:4.2 In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster's duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster's version of the deceased human's survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.

112:4.3 Subsequent to physical death, except in individuals translated from among the living, the released Adjuster goes immediately to the home sphere of Divinington. The details of what transpires on that world during the time of awaiting the factual reappearance of the surviving mortal depend chiefly on whether the human being ascends to the mansion worlds in his own individual right or awaits a dispensational summoning of the sleeping survivors of a planetary age.

112:4.4 If the mortal associate belongs to a group that will be repersonalized at the end of a dispensation, the Adjuster will not immediately return to the mansion world of the former system of service but will, according to choice, enter upon one of the following temporary assignments:

1. Be mustered into the ranks of vanished Monitors for undisclosed service.

2. Be assigned for a period to the observation of the Paradise regime.

3. Be enrolled in one of the many training schools of Divinington.

4. Be stationed for a time as a student observer on one of the other six sacred spheres which constitute the Father's circuit of Paradise worlds.

5. Be assigned to the messenger service of the Personalized Adjusters.

6. Become an associate instructor in the Divinington schools devoted to the training of Monitors belonging to the virgin group.

7. Be assigned to select a group of possible worlds on which to serve in the event that there is reasonable cause for believing that the human partner may have rejected survival.

112:4.5 If, when death overtakes you, you have attained the third circle or a higher realm and therefore have had assigned to you a personal guardian of destiny, and if the final transcript of the summary of survival character submitted by the Adjuster is unconditionally certified by the destiny guardian -- if both seraphim and Adjuster essentially agree in every item of their life records and recommendations -- if the Universal Censors and their reflective associates on Uversa confirm this data and do so without equivocation or reservation, in that event the Ancients of Days flash forth the mandate of advanced standing over the communication circuits to Salvington, and, thus released, the tribunals of the Sovereign of Nebadon will decree the immediate passage of the surviving soul to the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds.

112:4.6 If the human individual survives without delay, the Adjuster, so I am instructed, registers at Divinington, proceeds to the Paradise presence of the Universal Father, returns immediately and is embraced by the Personalized Adjusters of the superuniverse and local universe of assignment, receives the recognition of the chief Personalized Monitor of Divinington, and then, at once, passes into the "realization of identity transition," being summoned therefrom on the third period and on the mansion world in the actual personality form made ready for the reception of the surviving soul of the earth mortal as that form has been projected by the guardian of destiny.


5. SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN SELF

112:5.1 Selfhood is a cosmic reality whether material, morontial, or spiritual. The actuality of the personal is the bestowal of the Universal Father acting in and of himself or through his manifold universe agencies. To say that a being is personal is to recognize the relative individuation of such a being within the cosmic organism. The living cosmos is an all but infinitely integrated aggregation of real units, all of which are relatively subject to the destiny of the whole. But those that are personal have been endowed with the actual choice of destiny acceptance or of destiny rejection.

112:5.2 That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man's personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father's will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man's participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential.


112:5.3 Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing.

112:5.4 Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

112:5.5 And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man's greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.


112:5.6 Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.

112:5.7 If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.

112:5.8 The governments of Orvonton and Nebadon do not claim absolute perfection for the detail working of the universal plan of mortal repersonalization, but they do claim to, and actually do, manifest patience, tolerance, understanding, and merciful sympathy. We had rather assume the risk of a system rebellion than to court the hazard of depriving one struggling mortal from any evolutionary world of the eternal joy of pursuing the ascending career.

112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.

112:5.10 When the more spiritually and cosmically advanced mortals die, they proceed immediately to the mansion worlds; in general, this provision operates with those who have had assigned to them personal seraphic guardians. Other mortals may be detained until such time as the adjudication of their affairs has been completed, after which they may proceed to the mansion worlds, or they may be assigned to the ranks of the sleeping survivors who will be repersonalized en masse at the end of the current planetary dispensation.


112:5.11 There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the borderland of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:

112:5.12 There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This child of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.

112:5.13 This child of persisting meaning and surviving value is wholly unconscious during the period from death to repersonalization and is in the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardian throughout this season of waiting. You will not function as a conscious being, following death, until you attain the new consciousness of morontia on the mansion worlds of Satania.

112:5.14 At death the functional identity associated with the human personality is disrupted through the cessation of vital motion. Human personality, while transcending its constituent parts, is dependent on them for functional identity. The stoppage of life destroys the physical brain patterns for mind endowment, and the disruption of mind terminates mortal consciousness. The consciousness of that creature cannot subsequently reappear until a cosmic situation has been arranged which will permit the same human personality again to function in relationship with living energy.


112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.


112:5.16 The situation which makes repersonalization possible is brought about in the resurrection halls of the morontia receiving planets of a local universe. Here in these life-assembly chambers the supervising authorities provide that relationship of universe energy -- morontial, mindal, and spiritual -- which makes possible the reconsciousizing of the sleeping survivor. The reassembly of the constituent parts of a onetime material personality involves:


112:5.17 1. The fabrication of a suitable form, a morontia energy pattern, in which the new survivor can make contact with nonspiritual reality, and within which the morontia variant of the cosmic mind can be encircuited.


112:5.18 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


112:5.19 3. When these prerequisites of repersonalization have been assembled, the seraphic custodian of the potentialities of the slumbering immortal soul, with the assistance of numerous cosmic personalities, bestows this morontia entity upon and in the awaiting morontia mind-body form while committing this evolutionary child of the Supreme to eternal association with the waiting Adjuster. And this completes the repersonalization, reassembly of memory, insight, and consciousness -- identity.


112:5.20 The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self. The phenomenon of personality is dependent on the persistence of the identity of selfhood reaction to universe environment; and this can only be effected through the medium of mind. Selfhood persists in spite of a continuous change in all the factor components of self; in the physical life the change is gradual; at death and upon repersonalization the change is sudden. The true reality of all selfhood (personality) is able to function responsively to universe conditions by virtue of the unceasing changing of its constituent parts; stagnation terminates in inevitable death. Human life is an endless change of the factors of life unified by the stability of the unchanging personality.

112:5.21 And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations.

112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p112.htm



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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2008, 09:06:58 pm »

Trent

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quote:
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112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensa
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Absonite,

So how does this explain the people who claim to see ghosts or who have talked with the dead if this suggests that that dead are unable to communicate? Doesn't jibe with the real life accounts of the paranormal.


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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2008, 09:07:58 pm »

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  posted 03-14-2005 09:10 PM                       
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Trent,
I gave you the truth. Look for another explanation for those few incidents of so-called communication with the dead instead of the one you are coming up with. Use your head my good friend and common sense. I don't have the answer for what is happening in those few occurances but it certainly is not communication with the dead. Read the passage again, it is not only truth but also makes sense.


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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2008, 09:08:26 pm »

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Sorry, Absonite, this is where we'll have to differ. There are such a thing as ghosts, there are more than a few accounts of them. No question, some of the people who see them are hallucinating, or seeing only what they want to see, but there is ample evidence that ghosts exist. For the most part they seem to have involved cases where people have been so scarred by what happened to them this reality (violent deaths, etc.) that they cannot move on.
I'll look for more material on this when I get the time.


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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2008, 09:08:55 pm »

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Count me as a firm believer in "ghosts" or whatever you want to call them. In my spare time, I do much investigation of the paranormal. There seems to be this "window" where people who pass on don't seem to know what to do, they don't pass on and they just seem to linger there in the sphere of existence. The creepiest thing that I've found is that these people don't seem to know that they're dead and sometimes linger for years.

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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2008, 09:09:39 pm »

 
Absonite

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  posted 03-16-2005 06:57 AM                       
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Sorry guys,
There is absolutely NO communication with the dead. You should settle that once and for all in your minds.



It is not a disagreement between me and you. It is a disagreement between you and the people who run the universes and who know what is going on. That was made perfectly clear by the material I posted. You are confusing a phenomenon of what you call "ghosts" with people who have passed on.

There are numerous orders of beings that are beyond the normal range of vision who also inhabit this planet. In fact an example of the quite numerous beings that share this place with us is illustrated by this account below, but this should not be confused with the so-called "dead".


quote:
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114:0.2 At noon today the roll call of planetary angels, guardians, and others on Urantia was 501,234,619 pairs of seraphim. There were assigned to my command two hundred seraphic hosts -- 597,196,800 pairs of seraphim, or 1,194,393,600 individual angels. The registry, however, shows 1,002,469,238 individuals; it follows therefore that 191,924,362 angels were absent from this world on transport, messenger, and death duty. (On Urantia there are about the same number of cherubim as seraphim, and they are similarly organized.)

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http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p114.htm

This "roll call" was written in 1934, my guess is that the numbers are fairly stable.
The midway creatures, who by the way are the real "permanent" citizens of this planet have the ability to make themselves visible to us mortals although it is a rare occurance.


There you have it, agree or disagree is your choice, but at least now you know the truth.

.


quote:
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6. SERAPHIC ORGANIZATION
38:6.1 After the second millennium of sojourn at seraphic headquarters the seraphim are organized under chiefs into groups of twelve (12 pairs, 24 seraphim), and twelve such groups constitute a company (144 pairs, 288 seraphim), which is commanded by a leader. Twelve companies under a commander constitute a battalion (1,728 pairs or 3,456 seraphim), and twelve battalions under a director equal a seraphic unit (20,736 pairs or 41,472 individuals), while twelve units, subject to the command of a supervisor, constitute a legion numbering 248,832 pairs or 497,664 individuals. Jesus alluded to such a group of angels that night in the garden of Gethsemane when he said: "I can even now ask my Father, and he will presently give me more than twelve legions of angels."

38:6.2 Twelve legions of angels comprise a host numbering 2,985,984 pairs or 5,971,968 individuals, and twelve such hosts (35,831,808 pairs or 71,663,616 individuals) make up the largest operating organization of seraphim, an angelic army. A seraphic host is commanded by an archangel or by some other personality of co-ordinate status, while the angelic armies are directed by the Brilliant Evening Stars or by other immediate lieutenants of Gabriel. And Gabriel is the "supreme commander of the armies of heaven," the chief executive of the Sovereign of Nebadon, "the Lord God of hosts."

38:6.3 Though serving under the direct supervision of the Infinite Spirit as personalized on Salvington, since the bestowal of Michael on Urantia, seraphim and all other local universe orders have become subject to the sovereignty of the Master Son. Even when Michael was born of the flesh on Urantia, there issued the superuniverse broadcast to all Nebadon which proclaimed, "And let all the angels worship him." All ranks of angels are subject to his sovereignty; they are a part of that group which has been denominated "his mighty angels."





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[This message has been edited by Absonite (edited 03-16-2005).]


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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2008, 09:10:09 pm »

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About five minutes after my sister died I placed my hand on her forehead and asked God to let the family know that she is with Him. Two days later, My son was awakened by what he described as a heavy hand on his forehead. My son said that the hand was pressing his head down into the pillow. He also said that he had a very strong sense that God was in the room with him.
I didn't tell anyone what I asked God to do at the time of my sister's death. After myson told me about his visitor I then told him about the prayer to God asking Him to let the family know that my sister was with Him. My son said "WOW" I guess now we know where she went. My son was thirty years old at the time.
[This message has been edited by Datah (edited 03-27-2005).]


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« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2008, 09:10:31 pm »

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I`ve read enough books on communicating with the dead in the past ,however could never quite believe it, until my own minister who bapisted and married me, had a communication. He wrote the book (Hi! This Is Katy) by Wallace Tooke and can be found in any Unity library. His story its very interesting.He has passed on now.
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