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the Crusades (Original)

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Ceneca
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 11:38:11 pm »

Nomad

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I believe that the original cause for the Crusades, recapturing the Holy Land, was just a smokescreen for more nefarious goals. Odd that we still havent't learned our lesson and doing the same thing right now.
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 11:38:40 pm »

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   posted 07-04-2005 02:20 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Jennie McGrath:
He's just trying to push people's buttons, Heather, who cares what he has to say?
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AND he's trying to push his bulls**t fascist ideologies at every half of an opportunity on anyone who will listen. I've been here a very short time ans was fed up with his crap from the first day - how have all of you tolerated him for so long? Talk to the hand, Norm.

[ 07-04-2005, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Allison ]
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 11:38:59 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 03:15 AM                   
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This is a bit off-topic but there also have been other crusades, for example three crusades to Finland back in the Middle-Ages, starting from about the year 1155. Their result was essentially the subjucation of the Finland under the Catholic rule of the Swedish overlords. The competition was hard as Finland was the last pagan northern European country to become Christian. Also Danes and Russians were there trying to get Finland before others.

I guess it was kinda of demise of the Finnish culture as the papal orderlies could burn at stake anybody rivalling their monopoly.

I think there was also a crusade against folk called Cathars in the western Europe. Does anybody know if there were more Crusades inside Europe?
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 11:39:20 pm »

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   posted 08-02-2005 10:46 AM                       
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Faravid,

Thanks for this post, and the reminder....

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All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17

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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 11:39:37 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 03:51 PM                       
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http://www.staycatholic.com/the_crusades.htm

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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 11:40:02 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 04:06 PM                       
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http://www.persecution.org/Countries/nigeria.html

http://www.persecution.org/Countries/indonesia.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=10242

the greatest victims of Islam have been Hindus, with some 60-70 million killed, and tens of thousands of temples destroyed. The Greco-Buddhist civilization of Afghanistan was largely destroyed by Muslim invaders. The Hindus and Buddhists who once inhabited the East Indies have been steadily reduced, under constant Muslim pressure, as a percentage of the population. The attacks all over Asia, and all over Africa, of Muslims against Christians (not only the Sudan, but the Jihad, with Egyptian pilots strafing Ibo villages, that was the war to suppress Biafra) and

http://hindutva.org/babrimasjid.html

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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 11:40:27 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 04:09 PM                       
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According to reliable historical evidences after the ritual congregation at PATNA (India) in 247 BC, the great ASUKA (3) sent three Buddhist monks DHAMMARAK-KHITA, MAJAHAN-TIKA and MAHARAK-KHITA for preaching to GANDHARA, Afghanistan and other countries. During that era an important "stupa" (4) was built in Bamyan. Later on, during the period of great Kaniska (5) the most famous ruler of Kushan dynasty (6) the Buddhist sect MAHAYANA got developed and thus the golden age of stone carving were started. In that period Bamyan was selected due to its geographical importance and best geological characteristics, and the work of carving of statues and caves was started. According to well-known French Archaeologists J-Hacking, Mr. &. Mrs. Godard who visited Bamyan in 1922 and 1924, the first statue of Buddha (35 meter high) locally known as "SHAMAMA" was carved during the 1st century AD. At the time the art of stone carving was not advanced and developed, so they carved an other improved statue 600 meters away form the 1st locally known as "SALSAL" which is 53 meters high, (2nd and 3rd century AD) the largest statue in the world. It is considered the most beautiful masterpiece in the art of Sculpturing. Besides that, there were two smaller statues in the meditating position (10 meters each), which were later on destroyed but still the places and signs are visible between these two grand statues. Around these two statues hundreds of smaller and bigger caves have been made, probably for Monks and special guests. Most of these caves had been painted which can be seen obviously.

In its bloom period, no doubt Bamyan was one of the most sacred and holy places for the Buddhists all over the world. Buddha's followers used to visit there every year for ritual purposes. Moreover, Bamyan played the role of the main and nearest link road between the Central Asia and Sub Continent. Therefore, at that time thousands of trade caravans were using Bamyan as junction. For accommodations of these thousands of people some twelve caves were made in FOLADI and KAKRAK passes (10 km away east form main Bamyan Valley) (7).

According to the history, at first in 6th century AD, the White Huns damaged this civilization and after getting revival to some extent, later on the Muslims thoroughly annexed the whole region up to 9th AD. Then they rooted up the Buddhism. The Muslims however didn't much damage except chapping the faces of Buddha's Statues. After them the great Mongol warrior Genghis Khan also came in the region in 1221 AD, and during long besiege of Bamyan city his beloved grand son MOTOKUN was killed by the Hazaras, so Genghis army destroyed the whole famous city GHULGHUL of Bamyan and its surroundings in revenge, but he did not touch any of the statues or painted caves because he had a soft corner towards Buddhism.

During the modern era of Afghanistan this historical heritage was badly damaged during the regime of Amir Abdul Rahman (1880-1901) when Amir conquered this region after a long and sever battle with the Hazaras (1880-1893). He not only killed and forced thousands of Hazara to migrate but also destroyed the whole historical Heritage, specially the Heritage of Bamyan which belonged to the Hazaras, in revenge.

King Amanullah (1919-1929) was the first ruler of Kabul who came to know about the importance of this historical heritage and declared the value of the national heritage of Afghanistan. At first he removed Surrais (hotels) away form the statues, and made vacant the caves by the occupied people and their cattle. Later on he invited French archaeologists for chronological survey of this historical site. Unfortunately after King Amanullah, other Afghan rulers like Nadir Shah, Zahir Shah and Sardar Dawood Khan on political reasons once again put this historical site in complete ignorance. After long time pro-Moscow regime paid attention to the protection of this heritage with the help of UNESCO, but this process was stopped due to civil war in Afghanistan.

In 1990 the whole province of Bamyan was annexed by Hezb-e-Wahdat (Hazara party) knowing the importance and value of this historical heritage. Hezb-e-Wahdat put full attention towards this site. The Old Bazar, which is lying beside the heritage, was being shifted gradually away from the site. The New GHULGHUL BAZAR remained incomplete due to occupation of TALIBAN.

A directorate had been established by Hezb-e-Wahdat under the supervision of Mr. Safwat, but not having sufficient resources, they could not make any major steps towards the protection and preservation of the whole heritage. They did some positive steps towards the safety of the site. Like preventing illicit and unruly digging and encroachments of dwellers.

In May 1997 the Taliban commander Mullah Wahid raised statement that after having held Bamyan city the whole heritage would be blown-up. At that time they did several attacks on Bamyan city. Due to the Taliban bombardments, the conglomerate floor which lies above the great statues arch, had been cracked.

After one year, in September 1998 when the Taliban held the Bamyan Valley, they made good on their earlier statments and fired several rockets on the Giant Buddha's statues (Cool Even though they were told not to damage these giant statues (a cultural and historical heritage of human being specially the people of Afghanistan) by the secretary General of UNO an other well known world leaders.

No doubt that no one can deny the importance of this human grand civilization, which is considered to be the level of Egyptian civilization. But Unfortunately the Taliban is trying to ruin this human heritage on fanatic and prejudicial basis because it is beloved that the two Giant Buddha's where built and growthed Bamyan civilization by the Hazaras. Bamyan known a capital city of Hazarajat and having known as a heritage of Hazaras, Taliban representative of fanatic Pushtun historic and racial enemy of Hazaras are trying to destroy this human heritage on the basis of racial and religious prejudices.

http://www.hazara.net/hazara/geography/Buddha/buddha.html

The Destruction of the Statues in Bamiyan

http://www.photogrammetry.ethz.ch/research/bamiyan/buddha/destruction.html

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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 11:40:47 pm »

Ishtar

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  posted 08-02-2005 04:14 PM                       
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_17_54/ai_90888285

http://www.domini.org/openbook/egy90403.htm

[ 08-02-2005, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 11:41:07 pm »

Allison
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   posted 08-02-2005 04:32 PM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Ishtar:
the greatest victims of Islam have been Hindus, with some 60-70 million killed, and tens of thousands of temples destroyed. The Greco-Buddhist civilization of Afghanistan was largely destroyed by Muslim invaders. The Hindus and Buddhists who once inhabited the East Indies have been steadily reduced, under constant Muslim pressure, as a percentage of the population. The attacks all over Asia, and all over Africa, of Muslims against Christians (not only the Sudan, but the Jihad, with Egyptian pilots strafing Ibo villages, that was the war to suppress Biafra) and

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of course - the Hindus and Buddhists were (and still are) considered to be Heathens and yeah, they were for sure going to take heat from the Muslims because of it. What really cracks me up is how Muslims and xtians get into it with each other - do they not realise just how very many common paralells they have in their belief systems? They argue it's Allah - no, it's Jesus back and forth and all that **** when Jesus really doesn't give a flying fu<k about either because neither is anything at all to do with him. Never has been. Jesus was Heathen.
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 11:41:31 pm »

Ishtar

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  posted 08-02-2005 04:52 PM                       
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Hey check this out Allison,

Radical Buddhists Persecute Christians in Sri Lanka

COLOMBO, Sri Lanka - Stories of persecution of Christians in nations dominated by Muslims or Communists, such as Pakistan and China, are common.

But you may be surprised to learn that Christians have been beaten and their churches burned in the predominantly Buddhist nation of Sri Lanka.

Buddhists are taught to show tolerance for beliefs that differ from their own and compassion is an important element of their faith.

But, in recent years, militant Buddhists have shown little tolerance and compassion for Sri Lanka's Christian minority.

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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2007, 11:41:53 pm »

Ishtar

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  posted 08-02-2005 04:55 PM                       
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http://www.yungdrung-bon.net/page/anglais/A-histoire/A-HISTOIRE2_BON.html

The Bön religion has undergone two persecutions in Tibet during its long history. The first occurred during the reign of King Drigum Tsenpo (Gri-gum btsan-po') in the 7th century B.C.E. All but the 'Bön of Cause' (rgyu'i bon: the first four of the Nine Ways) was abolished, and most of its practitioners banished. They were, however, able to conceal many texts as terma (gTer-ma, 'treasure') that were rediscovered at a later date by tertons (gTer-ston, 'treasure discoverers').


With the increasing interest in Buddhism and its establishment as the state religion and the founding of Samye (bSam-yas) monastery in 779 A.D. Bön was generally discouraged and a further serious attempt was made to

eradicate it.

Imagine that?

This was the second persecution of Bön, by King Trisong Detsen (Khri-srong lde-btsan). However, adherents of Bön among the nobility and especially among the common people, who had followed the Bön beliefs for generations, retained their religious convictions and Bön survived. Again during this period many Bön priests were banished or forced to flee from Central Tibet, having first concealed their scriptures for fear of their destruction and in order to preserve them for future generations.

[ 08-02-2005, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Ishtar ]

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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2007, 11:42:19 pm »

 
Ishtar

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  posted 08-02-2005 05:00 PM                       
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All Maya ritual acts were dictated by the 260-day Sacred Round calendar, and all performances had symbolic meaning. Sexual abstinence was rigidly observed before and during such events, and self-mutilation was encouraged in order to furnish blood with which to anoint religious articles. The elite were obsessed with blood - both their own and that of their captives - and ritual bloodletting was a major part of any important calendar event. Bloodletting was also carried out to nourish and propitiate the gods, and when Maya civilization began to fall, rulers with large territories are recorded as having rushed from one city to the other, performing bloodletting rites in order to maintain their disintegrating kingdoms.

For the Maya, blood sacrifice was necessary for the survival of both gods and people, sending human energy skyward and receiving divine power in return. A king used an obsidian knife or a stingray spine to cut his ****, allowing the blood to fall onto paper held in a bowl. Kings' wives also took part in this ritual by pulling a rope with thorns attached through their tongues. The blood-stained paper was burned, the rising smoke directly communicating with the Sky World.

Human sacrifice was perpetrated on prisoners, slaves, and particularly children, with orphans and illegitimate children specially purchased for the occasion.

HMMM would yo usay the mayans were Pagan?

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it's Later Than You Think
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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2007, 11:42:42 pm »

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   posted 08-02-2005 05:57 PM                       
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I just wonder who wrote this stories about the Mayan religion?!
Have anyone taken a critical look on the sources of these texts?!
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« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2007, 11:43:05 pm »

Ishtar

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  posted 08-02-2005 06:59 PM                       
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OH please

http://psychicinvestigator.com/Relig/Sacrifc.htm

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« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2007, 11:43:32 pm »

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  posted 08-02-2005 07:29 PM                       
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http://www.rotten.com/library/death/human-sacrifice/

let me see what I can find

http://www.carnaval.com/dead/aztecmyth.htm

The human sacrifice was carried out in the following manner, one priest held down the victim and the other cut out his heart. The head of this hierarchy was called 'Ah Kin Mai', who was the chief of all the priests in the region. A key aspect of this religion was the importance it had given to agriculture and the timeliness of harvests. The Mayan religious calendar tzolkin comprised of only 260 days and two cycles each comprises of weeks spanning 30 days and 20 days. Another calendar called tun comprised of 360 days and five added unlucky days. There was another calendar that developed from it called katun- comprising of 20 tuns. The Mayans paid attention the cycles of rain and harvest and considered agricultural produce as the gift of God. They strongly believed that humans should be attuned to changes in the cycle of time so that they would be able to greatly benefit from them. They were also believers in animal sacrifice. They often engaged in competitions, dances and prayers to appease the gods. Their main motive for sacrifice was to nourish the Gods, as they believed that human beings, particularly their human, sustained them. Hence the blood that was collected from a human sacrifice was offered to the Gods in a bowl

Linda Schele, an expert on the hieroglyphic writing of the Maya, published texts in the 1980s, which contained the description of the bloodletting ceremony. Maya rulers would let their own blood flow out on rind-made paper. After that they would burn the blood-stained paper offering it in sacrifice to their gods and ancestors.

In the 8th and 9th centuries AD Classic Maya culture began to decline, with most of the cities of the central lowlands abandoned. Warfare, ecological depletion of croplands, and drought or some are suspected reasons for the decline. There is archaeological evidence of warfare, famine, and revolt against the elite at some of the lowlands sites.

Bonampak, a ruined Maya palace in the jungles of southern Mexico, unveiled a series of startling murals depicting torture, warfare and bloodshed. Yet it took another 40 years for scholars to accept that the Maya, for all their heavenly concerns, practiced the earthly tradition of warfare, torture and human sacrifice.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2804maya.html

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/latinamerica/topics/human_scacrifice.html

Evidence May Back Human Sacrifice Claims
By Mark Stevenson
Associated Press
posted: 23 January 2005
06:40 pm ET



MEXICO CITY (AP) -- It has long been a matter of contention: Was the Aztec and Mayan practice of human sacrifice as widespread and horrifying as the history books say? Or did the Spanish conquerors overstate it to make the Indians look primitive? In recent years archaeologists have been uncovering mounting physical evidence that corroborates the Spanish accounts in substance, if not number.

Using high-tech forensic tools, archaeologists are proving that pre-Hispanic sacrifices often involved children and a broad array of intentionally brutal killing methods.

For decades, many researchers believed Spanish accounts from the 16th and 17th centuries were biased to denigrate Indian cultures, others argued that sacrifices were largely confined to captured warriors, while still others conceded the Aztecs were bloody, but believed the Maya were less so.

"We now have the physical evidence to corroborate the written and pictorial record,'' said archaeologist Leonardo Lopez Lujan. He said, "some 'pro-Indian' currents had always denied this had happened. They said the texts must be lying.''

The Spaniards probably did exaggerate the sheer numbers of victims to justify a supposedly righteous war against idolatry, said David Carrasco, a Harvard Divinity School expert on Meso-American religion.

But there is no longer as much doubt about the nature of the killings. Indian pictorial texts known as "codices,'' as well as Spanish accounts from the time, quote Indians as describing multiple forms of human sacrifice.

Victims had their hearts cut out or were decapitated, shot full of arrows, clawed, sliced to death, stoned, crushed, skinned, buried alive or tossed from the tops of temples.

Children were said to be frequent victims, in part because they were considered pure and unspoiled.

"Many people said, 'We can't trust these codices because the Spaniards were describing all these horrible things,' which in the long run we are confirming,'' said Carmen Pijoan, a forensic anthropologist who found some of the first direct evidence of cannibalism in a pre-Aztec culture over a decade ago: bones with butcher-like cut marks.

In December, at an excavation in an Aztec-era community in Ecatepec, just north of Mexico City, archaeologist Nadia Velez Saldana described finding evidence of human sacrifice associated with the god of death.

"The sacrifice involved burning or partially burning victims,'' Velez Saldana said. "We found a burial pit with the skeletal remains of four children who were partially burned, and the remains of four other children that were completely carbonized.''

While the remains don't show whether the victims were burned alive, there are depictions of people -- apparently alive -- being held down as they were burned.

The dig turned up other clues to support descriptions of sacrifices in the Magliabecchi codex, a pictorial account painted between 1600 and 1650 that includes human body parts stuffed into cooking dishes, and people sitting around eating, as the god of death looks on.

"We have found cooking dishes just like that,'' said archaeologist Luis Manuel Gamboa. "And, next to some full skeletons, we found some incomplete, segmented human bones.'' However, researchers don't know whether those remains were cannibalized.

In 2002, government archaeologist Juan Alberto Roman Berrelleza announced the results of forensic testing on the bones of 42 children, mostly boys around age 6, sacrificed at Mexico City's Templo Mayor, the Aztec's main religious site, during a drought.

All shared one feature: serious cavities, abscesses or bone infections painful enough to make them cry.

"It was considered a good omen if they cried a lot at the time of sacrifice,'' which was probably done by slitting their throats, Roman Berrelleza said.

The Maya, whose culture peaked farther east about 400 years before the Aztecs founded Mexico City in 1325, had a similar taste for sacrifice, Harvard University anthropologist David Stuart wrote in a 2003 article.

In the late 19th and early 20th century, "The first researchers tried to make a distinction between the 'peaceful' Maya and the 'brutal' cultures of central Mexico,'' Stuart wrote. "They even tried to say human sacrifice was rare among the Maya.''

But in carvings and mural paintings, he said, "we have now found more and greater similarities between the Aztecs and Mayas,'' including a Maya ceremony in which a grotesquely costumed priest is shown pulling the entrails from a bound and apparently living sacrificial victim.

Some Spanish-era texts have yet to be corroborated with physical remains. They describe Aztec priests sacrificing children and adults by sealing them in caves or drowning them. But the assumption now is that the texts appear trustworthy, said Lopez Lujan, who also works at the Templo Mayor site.

For Lopez Lujan, confirmation has come in the form of advanced chemical tests on the stucco floors of Aztec temples, which were found to have been soaked with iron, albumen and genetic material consistent with human blood.

"It's now a question of quantity,'' said Lopez Lujan, who thinks the Spaniards -- and Indian picture-book scribes working under their control -- exaggerated the number of sacrifice victims, claiming in one case that 80,400 people were sacrificed at a temple inauguration in 1487.

"We're not finding anywhere near that ... even if we added some zeros,'' Lopez Lujan said.

Researchers have largely discarded the old theory that sacrifice and cannibalism were motivated by a protein shortage in the Aztec diet, though some still believe it may have been a method of population control.

Pre-Hispanic cultures believed the world would end if the sacrifices were not performed. Sacrificial victims, meanwhile, were often treated as gods themselves before being killed.

"It is really very difficult for us to conceive,'' Pijoan said of the sacrifices. "It was almost an honor for them.''

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“Ad initio, alea iacta est.”
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
it's Later Than You Think
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000023;p=1

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