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Nordic Aliens (Original)

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Jennie McGrath
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 11:52:42 pm »

HereForNow
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Member # 2132

Rate Member   posted 11-20-2004 11:19 AM                       
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LOL Mars once again the science is there,however I'm not sure that "tripping" is a fair way to measure the reality of an experiment in dream scapes.....
Then again, 15 years ago or so, something like this would have appealed to alot of people.

I would like a chance to measure magnetic waves and/or anomalies that occur while a person sleeps. A man by the name John Hutchison discovered the H-effect. This effect was created by what is now called the "polter-giest machine"...
The H-effect can cause objects to levitate and these objects then begin to come apart at the sub-atomic level.I bring this to mind because of the forces that are at work. A tesla coil or two,and a pacific kind of generator was responsible for the discovery.
This means that magnetic forces were at work.

I beleive that when a person is in the right sleep state that chemical-electrical reactions begin to react to gravity,and other magnetic energies to create a sence of alternate reality. This sence is what we may think is an awakening of the spirit because of the kinds of experiences we have when this happens. This could very well be the case in a common spiritual outlook.
Edger Cayce in a great example for this theory. (The sleeping prophet)

The reason that I beleive this could be another way that communication with other beings is possible during these times is because of an electromagnetic effect associated with temporal-displacment.

Now this might be better explained after I have more coffee.....
For now here is more on John Hutchison and other related things.
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/main.html
http://www.awakening.net/
http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_starchild.html

Now here is something that was sent to me by a person that I discussed this very same thing with.
This person then told me about what they predict
for the near future and beyond. This may be difficult for younger people to stomach so I did edit some of the more harmful material.
I will not hold back what I feel could be the truth..........

Predictions for Planet Earth and Its Inhabitants



(1.) Physical Earth Changes.

1. Due to the combination of galactic forces and the criminal pollution of the Earth by humans, which is intensifying and speeding up the process, massive worldwide Earth changes will take place. The galactic cosmic forces, which are connected to the arrival of the Aquarian Age, are causing the natural recycling of the Earth's four major surface types, which are desert, ocean floor, fertile land, and ice covered land.

This is a natural cycle created into the physical destiny of planet Earth to insure that no area of its surface is permanently destroyed. For example, if what is now desert was to remain desert for an extremely long time, then that area of the Earth's surface would become forever infertile, therefore it must be covered with water which replenishes it.

Since planet Earth was created as a home for humans, it must have sufficient amounts of fertile land to grow food. You cannot easily grow food, if at all, on deserts, frozen tundra or ocean floors.

The recycling proceeds like this; the deserts become ocean floors, the ocean floors rise up above the water to dry and become fertile land, the ice melts off the ice covered land and that land dries and becomes fertile, some of present day fertile lands becomes deserts and some are covered by ice to preserve them for future use.

This recycling has occurred many times in the Earth's history. This is the process; due to stellar, solar, solar systemic, lunar spiritual energy forces and electromagnetic forces, the Earth's magnetic poles will shift position and simultaneously the magma around the core of the Earth will be drawn and forced to the surface. This is similar to the magnetic powers of a magnet and is observed in the movement of the ocean tides by the Moon. As the magma is forced to the surface it causes the tectonic plates which float on this liquid to move in very quick movements. This causes the melting of the North and South Pole ice caps, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and tidal waves of gigantic proportions.

Scientists do not understand any of this because these types of Earth changes have not occurred in recent history. Though they do have some evidence of similar activity in the past when they find seashells in the high deserts hundreds of miles from any ocean and animal and plant fossils in the frozen tundra.

2. The eruption of Mt. St. Helen in the state of Washington, USA, on May 18, 1980 was the sign that many heavy earthquakes will occur in the San Francisco area until that city is totally destroyed by a very large quake. The eruption of the St. Helen volcano was and is connected to the fracturing of the San Andreas Fault that runs through San Francisco. The destruction of that city is the beginning of the end of the West Coast of the USA, which will be destroyed by heavy earthquakes and flooding. After this, earthquakes will be both more numerous and of larger magnitudes around the world.

3. California and the rest of the West Coast of the United States will be hit with two gigantic quakes. After the eruptions of the volcanoes Etna in Sicily, Vesuvius in Italy and Pelee in Martinique, West Indies, within four months, earthquakes with a magnitude of approximately 14.0 - 15.0 will inundate the West Coast area from Baja, California to Denver, Colorado and from Denver to Anchorage, Alaska. Every city, town and village will be destroyed and very little land will remain dry. Mountain ranges will be leveled, deserts will become ocean floors.

4. Great earthquakes caused by tectonic plate movements will occur around the world after the West Coast, U.S.A. quakes. With these huge quakes will come gigantic tsunamis that will destroy by flood many cities, towns and villages along the coastlines of many countries in the world.

5. Huge devastating wild fires, tremendous floods, catastrophic volcanic eruptions, destructive earthquakes, and hurricanes and tornadoes with wind speeds of 150-200 mph will be seen all over the world causing great destruction each year for many years. Some years will have less, some more, but generally speaking these natural disasters will continue to increase. The increasing unusual number of these natural disasters is caused by the criminally insane pollution of our planet. Governments, corporations, evil scientists and to a great extent the apathetic public are responsible for this horrible destruction of our beautiful planet.

6. Besides Etna, Vesuvius and Pelee, volcanoes will erupt in many countries. So much volcanic ash will be shot into the air in those areas that the daytime skies will be darkened and the Sun will not be seen for weeks. The lava and ash from these eruptions will create great problems for the nearby regions.

7. Many areas in the world will be flooded due to huge amounts of rainfall. This great increase in rainfall will be due to the heating of the oceans by the combination of global warming caused by air pollution and the heat of the molten magma connected to volcanoes rising beneath the ocean floors.

8. The Mississippi River in the U.S.A. will flood and become in some spots 50 miles wide and at its mouth 100 miles wide, only in its northern sections will it be easily crossed.


(2.) The Economy of the World & the U.S.A.

1. Due to the major Earth changes and a world war there will be a worldwide economic collapse that will result in a so-called New World Order that will be worldwide feudalism with the few rich and powerful ruling over the many millions of poor and homeless.

2. Governments will close Banks all over the world.

3. The stock markets will crash and close mainly due to war and the fear of war.

4. Oil prices and therefore gasoline prices will sky rocket and the value of money will be reduced to 10 cents on the dollar and then quickly it will become worthless .

5. All over the world people will be starving and lining up for food and good drinking water will be hard to find.


(3.) USA and World Politics.

1. A United States president will be driven out of office by a political and military coup that will stun the world.

2. A new country will be established in areas near what is today Jordan. Its government will be composed of Palestinians and Jordanians. This however, will not ease the tensions between the Arab nations and Israel.

3. Israel will become more isolated from the rest of the world because of its desire to hold on to Jerusalem.

4. Israel, along with its allies the U.S. and England, will prepare for war against many countries including most of the Arab countries, Russia and China.

5. The Israeli Prime Minister will be killed and within months a major war will break out in the Middle East.

6. This war will be fought primarily over the control and ownership of Jerusalem.

7. Russia will continue to get worse in every way. The Russian people will lose faith in their government, and the government will lose control over much of the Russian society. People will be starving to death in Russian cities and there will be riots to obtain food. Organized crime will grow as powerful as the government and operate freely in Russian cities.

8. China will secretly grow angry towards Russia because of conflicting communist ideologies. There will be border disputes and fighting between the Russian and Chinese military, but these will be minor conflicts and will not lead to a major war between the two countries. Yet this is very important because through this major disagreement these two super powers will go their separate ways towards world domination.

9. There will be two nuclear reactor incidents, one in Russia and one in France similar to the Chernobyl accident of 1986, which happened near the city of Kiev in Russia. These catastrophes will be so horrible that people all over the world will start to demand a cleaner environment, but this will not happen.


(4.) World War III.

1. Four heads of state will die within a week of each other, within two years of these deaths WWIII will start.

2. Also, the upper atmosphere of the Earth will be set on fire and everyone in the world will see this. It will be set on fire by the U.S. military using their H.A.A.R.P. (High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program), a top-secret computerized climate control weapon. This fire will be a bright red and last for one week. This will be claimed to have been an accident, but it will have been an intentional testing of the weapon. Within one year of this event WWIII will begin.

3. The situation in the Middle East, the war over the control of Jerusalem, will lead directly to WWIII.

4. Islamic fundamentalists will be responsible for civil wars, revolutions, wars between nations, and many major military conflicts within their own countries and around the world, culminating in an invasion of Europe and an attack upon the Israelis in Jerusalem using a small nuclear weapon.

5. Saddam Hussein, one of the Anti-Christs, will order a chemical and biological weapon attack in the United States. He will also secretly convince the Russians and the Red Chinese to enter WWIII against the United States and its Allies.

6. China will attack North Vietnam and this will put the Chinese on an inalterable course towards WWIII.

7. Pakistan will enter into an alliance with China and through this the Chinese will make their way through Pakistan, the Arabian Sea and the Middle East.

8. India will form an alliance with Russia opening the way to the Indian Ocean to the Russians, which will alarm the U.S. and complicate that region of the world immensely.

9. Iran will form an alliance with Russia, who will later betray it, allowing the Russians to eventually dominate the Middle East.

10. Europe will continue to be very complicated and disunited adding to the problems of the world.

11. Many know-it-all, intellectually arrogant, closed-minded, fearful and pompous people will claim that there is no danger of WWIII, but they do not know that this war will not start suddenly. It will start gradually, with one nation going to war with an other nation. One small war added to another small war until the sum is a world war.

12. The U.S.A., who will instigate many of them, NATO, and the United Nations will not be able to do anything to contain these wars. The United Nations especially is too weak. It was not organized with enough strength to stop these types of conflicts.

13. World War III will start in the month of November, approximately one year after the upper atmosphere is set on fire using the U.S. secret military weapon H.A.A.R.P., and will last 3 years and 11 months.

14. Conventional weapons will be used first, then chemical, biological and nuclear.

15. The Northern Hemisphere of the Earth will be mostly destroyed by nuclear fires and radiation. Most of the Southern Hemisphere will not be destroyed by nuclear weapons, but all of the cities, towns, and villages will be leveled and burned to the ground through conventional war.

16. Anyone caught within 50 miles of a hydrogen bomb detonation will suffer damage to their soul, even to the point of the total destruction of it, which would release their spirit in energy form back to God, and they would cease to exist as individual spirits. This is because the explosion of a hydrogen bomb causes a chain reaction explosion of all hydrogen atoms within range, which includes the hydrogen atoms that souls are partially composed of. Even though souls exist within the fourth dimension, the strength, power and velocity of the detonation will bridge the gap between third and fourth dimensions.

The spirit without its soul cannot exist as an individual entity. If this separation were to occur, the spiritual energy that composed the spirit would return to God. A spirit cannot exist in a spiritual being without a soul; there is no such thing as a spiritual being without shape and form. Think of the spirit as a spark of pure God energy and the soul as a type of physical body similar to the physical bodies on Earth, but with a higher vibration.

I'm sure this has cleared up any misunderstanding concerning this matter. Many of you have been taught that the soul is indestructible. This is incorrect. A hydrogen bomb is the one thing on Earth that can totally destroy the soul.

17. Human extraterrestrials, who have been monitoring the Earth for millions of years, will prevent the entire destruction of the planet and help save a small portion of humanity, but will not otherwise interfere with WWIII because of Universal Non-Interference Laws.

18. Some people, very few, perhaps in the thousands, will survive WWIII and its aftermath in elaborate bomb shelters, remote mountainous areas and in a few areas of the Southern Hemisphere of the planet.

19. After WWIII begins there will be 11 years of radiation contamination in the Northern Hemisphere and lawlessness, starvation, and cannibalism throughout the world, and finally very few people will survive.

20. WWIII will not be the end of the human race on Earth, nor the destruction of Planet Earth, but it will be the end of this present day civilization, with every city, town and village in the world completely burnt to the ground.

21. The extremely difficult and deadly times of WWIII come to the Earth starting when the Pope no longer lives in Rome.

22. Europe as the home of the false Christian religions is destroyed to a great extent and conquered by Muslim military forces whose weapons will be supplied by both Russia and China.

23. Great wars will be fought worldwide between fanatical Arab/Muslim forces and so-called Western/Christian civilization. This Western/Christian civilization, which is not truly civilized because for the most part it disregards all true love, true wisdom, true freedom, true peace, and true equality between men and women, will continue to do evil worldwide in its attempt to control the world religiously, politically, and especially economically. It is obedient to the same evil spiritual powers who controlled Hitler and Saddam. The Arab/Muslim so-called civilization, also controlled by evil spiritual powers and religious cult members, who are also extremely determined to control the world, will decide that the Westerners must be totally destroyed leaving nothing of their evil culture remaining.

24. The USA will lead a group of Western countries down the road of self-destruction by invading and conquering many small countries and taking away their true independence, thereby creating great hatred and anger towards themselves worldwide.

25. Many Asian, African and European states will join forces against the USA once it is fully realized that they are to be conquered and exploited because of greed and America’s desire to dominate the world economically.

26. Many small wars composing WWIII will rage worldwide as the four evil powers, America, Russia, China and Arabia, clash with great deadly violence in an attempt of each to control the world.

27. Europe will be mostly destroyed, and every church and monastery of the Roman Catholic Church will be utterly destroyed with many thousands of priests and nuns and many bishops and cardinals murdered until this church is almost entirely wiped out. Divine Judgment will administer this powerful punishment upon the most wicked organization that was ever on Earth. All Protestant so-called Christian Churches and communities in Europe will be wiped out as well.

28. There will be only two more Popes after Pope John Paul II. The last Pope will be named “Petrus Romanus”, or Peter (of Rome). During his rule the final days of the Roman Catholic Church will be seen.

29. During WWIII all liberty and freedom will be lost and no one will be able to produce, buy or sell anything. Great areas of starvation and disease will be found throughout the world.

30. Finally the military powers of the world will be completely out of control and nuclear weapons will be launched, East against West, and West against East. Russia and the USA will launch the most destructive of all weapons upon each other, including the most destructive chemical, biological and nuclear ones.

31. Many countries will use new weapons of mass destruction in WWIII, including cloned human soldiers which were secretly developed for that time.

32. China will invade India and kill millions of people. Russia will betray, invade and conquer Iran and Turkey in their drive to control the oil deposits of the Middle East.

33. Natural catastrophes, including the eruption of Vesuvius, as well as WWIII, will devastate Italy and its population.

34. France will fall to Arab/Muslim military powers and become the base for their worldwide military operations. The Muslims will use French troops and weapons against their enemies.


(5.) Future Earth Civilization.

1. A highly advanced, both spiritually and technologically, group of human extraterrestrials will land and assist the survivors of WWIII in the establishment and construction of a new civilization based on God's Commandments and Spiritual Principles.

2. People on Earth will live in harmony with God and Creation, and peace and cooperation will be found throughout the world. Spiritual cities will be built on the principles of the oneness with God and Creation, with the intention of linking elements from human settlement with elements from nature in a spiritual coexistence. The goals will be to eliminate the common evils of society, such as greed, anger, war, pollution, disease, poverty, injustice, waste, and harmful technologies. The premise will be that a change in society's way of thinking about living together in true peace and cooperation is a logical starting point for a truly sustainable healthy and spiritual worldwide community.

3. This new civilization will have a classless society, a spiritual foundation, and the technology to clean and purify the air, land and water throughout the world.

4. There will be a world government called Earth Government, or E.G., that will truly serve and protect the people, it will distribute abundantly the necessities and luxuries of life equally without cost to everyone, provide career opportunities for everyone, and provide courts of justice worldwide. Spiritual teachers and leaders will hold the highest positions in the government.

5. Women will have equal rights and responsibilities in the new society. All areas of life will have equal opportunities for men and women without exception, of course, always taken into consideration will be the differences of the male and female physique. In all tasks, duties, and careers men and women will work together as equals. In family life women with children will nurse, educate and care for the children in every way, putting aside their careers and men will help in all family matters as well as have careers. Children will be raised with a spiritual education first and foremost and allowed to freely choose their own careers. In this regard, the divine science of Astrology will be used.

6. As mentioned, in this new civilization all of the necessities of life will be provided in abundance free of charge, including: a home with acres of land, food, clothing, education to one or more Ph.D. levels, recreation and exercise facilities, unlimited medical care, and career opportunities without limit within the Laws of God and His Creation.

7. Money will be abolished, but bartering will be allowed in the new civilization.

8. The breeding of animals for food will be abolished, and plant foods will increase in variety and numbers.

9. Though the new ways of life will soon be well established, some people will continue to hang on to the old evil ways, and this will cause trouble from time to time, because of this there will be a need for a standing military that will protect the righteous people worldwide.

10. Judgment Day will come - Immanuel will return to Earth with an army of God's angels to judge all those who have ever lived on Earth according to their individual Book of Life, and to establish God's Holy Kingdom.

11. Peace and prosperity will reign throughout the world for thousands of years because of the True Christianity.


(6.) Extraterrestrials.

1. A new human race of extraterrestrials will start to visit Earth after WWIII and its aftermath. These people from deep in the cosmos will be peaceful, of a very advanced technological civilization and of a high spiritual state of existence, serving God and Immanuel to their fullest capabilities. They will land in egg shaped ships of great size, beauty and capable of speed many times faster than the speed of light. They will land in what remains of America and use this area as the base for their peaceful and spiritual worldwide mission, including the reconstruction of cities.

2. It will be discovered that the ancient ancestors of humans on Earth were genetically manipulated billions of years ago by evil human extraterrestrial groups with very negative results, including a doubling of the gene which controls the desire to be angry, selfish, greedy, vicious, addictive, competitive, barbaric, inhumane, warlike and many other negative traits. This will trigger a great, successful effort to reverse this genetic manipulation, which will change the thoughts, words, feelings and actions of humans on Earth towards the spiritual and peaceful.

3. Human extraterrestrials from Sirius will play a very important role in the genetic manipulation reversals that are vital in the effort to make planet Earth a peaceful and spiritual place to live.

4. In the near future extraterrestrials will assist Earth humans to progress very rapidly in every field of mathematics and science, including the creation of spaceships and androids.

5. A group of extraterrestrials who have been living on the ocean floors will make contact with Earth human beings, and more positive results will occur because of this meeting.

6. It will be discovered that since the 1940's extraterrestrial groups have been telepathically "inspiring" movie makers and television show writers to produce some truthful films and programs to be viewed by humans on Earth in an effort to educate the subconscious and conscious minds of the viewers to minimize the future panic caused by the public appearance of ETs.


(7.) Astronomical Discoveries.

1. Three new planets will be discovered in the near future that belong to our solar system. One will be inside Mercury's orbit and will be called Vulcan, and two will be outside of Pluto's orbit, the nearest one will be called Transpluto and the furthest one will be named Nubiru, which has an orbit around the sun of 3,600 years.


(8.) Ancient Human Civilizations on Mars.

1. Artifacts from an ancient civilization on Mars will be found in the near future. Entire cities with pyramids, gigantic monuments, stations connected with space travel and many other structures containing ancient records will be found. All this will be discovered in the very near future regardless of the events on Earth, and Earth humans will use many of the structures when they visit Mars. In the future Earth humans will establish a colony on Mars and use this as a base for extensive space travel that will reach eventually into other galaxies.

2. These discoveries on Mars will be the evidence that will, with an incredible surge of fear for many religious people, collapse the false history of Earth humans, and the incredibly absurd and idiotic notion that Earth humans are the only human life form in the Universe. Many uninformed and closed-minded deniers of truth will finally realize that our galaxy and Universe are filled with human kind. This will eventually unite Earth's entire mankind into one global community.


(9.) History of Earth Humans.

1. Humans of Earth will find proof both here on Earth, in and under ancient buildings like the Sphinx, and on Mars, that some of their ancestors came to this solar system from other solar systems in the galaxy, first settled on Mars and Malona, a planet which was destroyed by war and is now the asteroid belt, and millions of years later came to Earth. These scientifically factual discoveries will put an end once and for all to the absurd "historical facts" of the origin of humans on Earth held by religions and narrow minded scientists, and bring much doubt upon religions and scientists in general. For many, the discoveries on Mars will completely collapse the foundations of all religions and open a new era of truth, inventions and discoveries.


(10.) World Religions.

1. After the true chronology of the Earth is made known, a new spiritual religion will be established which will revoke the so-called Christian Sunday, Islamic Friday and Jewish Sabbath and install Thursday as the new day of worship as well as a new schedule of holidays.

2. False religions and cults that presently have billions under their spell will remain alive, barely, decreasing slowly for centuries until they finally disappear.


(11.) Future Spiritual Teachings.

1. A man will lead a movement to present the true Spiritual Teachings to the entire world. The true teachings of Immanuel will again be taught in their pure and pristine form. Included in these spiritual teachings will be the truth about reincarnation, which will be accepted worldwide by the year 2040. Once again communication with God's spirit world will be an accepted fact and considered a necessity for spiritual progress. For an increasing number of people a spiritual education will become the most important part of life. Astrology will regain its proper position as the most important of all sciences. The false religions, as has been the case throughout history, will of course fight these new teachings, because their very existence is at stake, but this time the truth will prevail.


(12.) Scientific Discoveries and Inventions.

1. There will be the discovery and rectification of an error in the number Pi that will make possible great energy sources for the people of Earth.

2. There will be a discovery and an invention that will enable mankind to time travel both into the past and into the future, a time machine.

3. There will be a discovery of other dimensions and an invention to travel from one dimension to another that will result in communications and inter-reactions with intelligent life in many dimensions.

4. A very inexpensive energy source derived from water will be developed in the future. This will increase the production of food worldwide to such a degree that it will be distributed to everyone without cost.

5. Another form of usable energy that is based on sound vibrations will also be discovered.

6. Earth scientists will learn that at the center of our galaxy is a "Black Hole" that has an almost unlimited amount of energy that can be tapped.

7. New vehicles for space travel will be possible due to the understanding of the composition of light.

8. Genetic engineering will advance to the point were many things will become possible including cross breeding between plants and animals, diseases eliminated and plants producing animal-like protein, which will eliminate the mass breeding and tortures of animals because of a meat substitute, which is accepted by everyone.

9. Earth scientists will learn the secret of gravity and with this discovery begin to master space and the material Creation.

10. Einstein's Theory of Relativity will see several additional modifications and scientists will discover the truth of the fourth dimensional matter.

11. In the future a huge artificial sun will be placed in orbit around the Earth, which will eliminate the night time by illuminating the dark side of the planet, but it will last only fifty years at which time it will descend to the Earth and affect the planet's own rotation and orbit.

12. A very large space station will be built and placed in its own orbit around the Sun.


(13.) Medical Inventions.

1. In the near future human organs will be "grown" for the purpose of transplants. These organs will be genetically adapted to the specific body in need of the organ, eliminating organ rejection.

2. Also, in the near future a third DNA code in the human body will be discovered.

3. It will be discovered that most diseases and illnesses come from physical contact with animals as well as the intake of animal food. One of the results of this knowledge will be that in the future animals will not be allowed to live in the homes of humans, or even kept inside them for brief periods.

4. Because of many discoveries and new knowledge the life span of Earth humans will increase to 450 years in the very near future and eventually to 2000 years. One of the greatest discoveries in this regard will be the genetic reverse engineering of the ancient extraterrestrial genetic manipulation that causes premature aging.

5. Discoveries of the fact that the Earth's natural atmosphere is not the best for human longevity, and the development of portable "air bottles" with the best type of breathable air will be important factors in the possibility of increasing life spans into thousands of years.

6. Aids, Cancers and other viral diseases will never be permanently cured by drugs, vaccines, or radiation, these at best only put the diseases into remission while causing great damage to the body, but they can never completely eradicate them. The permanent and complete cures will come in the future when medical scientists finally understand the science of light frequency treatments.


(14.) Space Travel.

1. Space exploration will never cease in the future and many new worlds will be discovered including a planet perfectly suitable for human life, another Earth, of which there are hundreds of thousands in our galaxy alone. This will be increasingly more important as scientists finally discover that our Sun is a dying star and that the time that humans can live on planet Earth is much shorter than previously believed.

2. Spaceships with speed capabilities of millions of time the speed of light, making time and space non-issues, will in the future be common place, but this will take another thousand years to develop. With these vehicles travel between galaxies and even Universes will be possible.

3. Space travel will bring about many positive and many negative results. Included in the negative will be encounters with dangerous law breaking extraterrestrials and deadly epidemics that come from other planets.

4. The original home planets of the ancestors of Earth humans in the Sirius constellation will be reached, but not without a great confrontation with an evil extraterrestrial race during the journey.

5. Robots and androids will be of a very high independent and biological intelligence in the future and will be used for many purposes including flying spaceships almost without error.





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Posts: 252 | From: Erie, PA | Registered: Sep 2004   
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