TimeTravel_0

[Stellaraxe]

Shadow 
enthusiast 

 
Reged: 07/27/02 
Posts: 342 
Loc: SLC UT USA 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/25/00 11:02 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Roel
Alien abductions. Missing persons. Every immaginable statistic is watched these days. Some where somebody knows how many cups of coffee were consumed between 9 and 10 AM for each day of the week. Somebody keeps track of the daily number of dog bites in NYC. So you can bet that who goes missing, when and where is all on disk somewhere. But like cold weather at the beach, nobody likes to talk about it. I've never seen a single book or article on the subject and I read just about everything. We could say that the journalism on the subject is as missing as the supposed "non-victims".

So whats my point? I dunno. It gives me the same feeling you'd get when your oil light keeps flashing at odd intervals but your engine checks out "ok".

Dopplegangers are in a way the opposite of missing persons. I've seen other people that look, act move and sound so much like myself it's litterally made my hair stand on end. Many times over the years I had people say they have seen me places where I know I have never been.

As for parallel worlds all I can say is "believe it !"

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[Stellaraxe]

mokrie dela 
enthusiast 

 
Reged: 05/10/00 
Posts: 222 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/27/00 12:16 AM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Shadow, You crack me up! You have a great dry sence of humor. I've never thought of doppelgangers as the opposite of missing persons-that's really funny. I hope your a stand up comic, it would be a shame to waste your cleverness on just us.

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Shadow 
enthusiast 

 
Reged: 07/27/02 
Posts: 342 
Loc: SLC UT USA 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/27/00 03:04 AM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Morkie
Logic is serial. Humor is parallel.

Comic relief is never wasted. It is the acknowledgement of waste itself.

We laugh we cry
tis but the essence
of that gone by.

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NoTime 
 

 
 
 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/28/00 03:27 AM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Roel: I suppose that a future action might cause a result in the present if time is not serial in the sense that we are used to thinking it is. Also, if we eventually learn to manipulate time like we manipulate so many other things, then we can probably change events in the past. That would be the same principle as a future action causing a result in the present.

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Time02112 
addict 

 
Reged: 06/02/00 
Posts: 667 
Loc: San Diego CA. USA 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/29/00 01:55 AM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Good Point there NoTime!
you can add my vote to that one!

"Everything you know,...is Wrong!
soon we shall all discover the truth."
http://profiles.yahoo.com/vosstech





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Roel van Houten 
addict 
 
 
Reged: 12/20/00 
Posts: 563 
Loc: Amsterdam 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/29/00 01:53 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. I've tried to visualize time as something non-linear, but I find it difficult to grasp. In my opinion events take place in a certain order and events in the past, present and future do not exist parallel to oneanother. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant...?
Roel

Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum

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[Stellaraxe]

WanderingSoul 
journeyman 

 
Reged: 07/19/00 
Posts: 57 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/29/00 10:42 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

I often visualize 'time' as a very large, intricate Tree...as our perception moves up a major trunk...and off on any given smaller branch (kinda like an inch worm traveling up a tree)our perception of the whole changes yet the Tree remains.
With that as an analogy...needing to return to a point in the past and retrace one's steps ..to be sure one ends up on the correct future branch...makes sense...as does parallel universes...and the past changing from a future perspective.

Be safe and dream sweetly all. Light and Love in the comming year to each.

WS

 

[Stellaraxe]

NoTime 
 

 
 
 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/30/00 03:19 AM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

If, as some believe, everything exists in one spacious present (or one NOW), then the "past", "present", and "future" all coexist at once in that timeless realm. Maybe the larger part of ourselves resides in that realm and a part of ourselves exists as physical humans in what we call our lifetimes. Our physical selves that live in the 3 dimensional universe are subject the laws and conditions that make up the physical universe, such as the natural sciences (physics, chemistry, etc.), emotions (joy, sorrow, etc.), human interaction, -- and TIME. 

[Stellaraxe]

TimeTravel_0 
 

 
 
 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/30/00 01:47 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Greetings and happy holidays everyone. I am very surprised and delighted to see the conversation going in the direction it has on this thread. Unknowingly, you all have stepped into the real mystery of time travel that remains speculative in 2036. Based on a couple of questions I see here, I will try my hardest to describe what we in 2036 think space-time looks like and how it behaves. Please keep in mind that I realize how easy it is to dismiss what I say. First, I’m trying to do this from memory. Imagine you are back in 1911 trying to explain a jet engine to the Wright brothers. However, there are some very basic properties of quantum theory that support this model today. I appreciate the fact that you are reading this with an open mind.
(If parallel universes do exist, did they all start simultaneously? I mean, let's assume that the universe originated from a singularity. Were there any parallel universes at that point? That would not be very logical and it would also imply that there is a parallel universe in which our universe never existed.)

It is thought that the event called the “Big Bang” was the start of not only this worldline or universe but all worldlines and all universes that make up the superuniverse. It is also thought that the superuniverse can be imagined as an expanding sphere with the big bang in the center.
Individual worldliness (or timelines as you call them) can be imagined as lines originating at the center and “trending” toward spiraling around the sphere until they reach the edge. The individual worldlines expand in length and widen as you follow them from the center. Each individual “moment” or “event” on a world line has infinite possibilities or outcomes. Imagine this as a single point with infinite lines shooting away from it, which in turn are made up of points with their own possibilities and outcomes. Now, remember, these individual worldliness with all these points and possibilities are defined by their ability to hold there inhabitants to timelike trips only (no faster than light travel).

Now consider the reality of a spinning or electrified black hole (Kerr). Penrose diagrams of these oddities show mathematically that you can make simulated spacelike trips (faster than light) through the singularity without being destroyed. In order to do this without wiping out most modern physical laws, you must travel to an alternate worldline or universe. Therefore, if multiple worldlines exist, infinite worldlines exist.

In trying to imagine a superuniverse with infinite possibilities and worldlines, I think of a room with mirrors on all the walls. You are aware of your captivity but as you look in the distance, you see an infinite number of “yours” in an infinite number of mirrored rooms. The gravity distortion machine allows you to “step” out of your room and into another next to you. The closer you are to your original room, the closer it looks like yours, the farther away, the stranger it looks to you.

(…If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.")

A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.

On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975.

I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).

From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I’m there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).

I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.

When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

If all this isn’t enough to get your head spinning…here are some issues we’re dealing with in 2036.

1. Did your worldline (D) exist at all before I got here from (C)? (personally I don’t see how it couldn’t)

2. What happens at the end of a worldine at the edge of the superuniverse?

3. If there are infinite worldlines and infinite possibilities and an edge to the superuniverse, doesn’t that mean occurring events on worldliness are staggered as they reach the edge? (time could end at any moment without warning).

Happy new year everyone!

 

[Stellaraxe]

Roel van Houten 
addict 
 
 
Reged: 12/20/00 
Posts: 563 
Loc: Amsterdam 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/30/00 03:16 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 

Hi Timetravel_0.
Your first question seems quite easy to answer. If I understand you correctly you traveled from 1975 (B) to 2000 (C) which started a new worldline (D) because you arrived there.

This worldline (D) would not have existed if you didn't arrive here. We would have continued our lives in worldline (C) or any other given worldline that originated from (C).

Your second question is similar to the question people are asking themselves right now. What happens at the end of our (conventional) universe. I can't answer that one for you. You'd have to travel to the future to find that out. The same applies fot the third question.

Please understand and respect that I do not believe you to be a timetraveler. Why? Lack of evidence! I also understand that if you were indeed a timetraveler, you'd have no interest in sharing evidence with us.

Furthermore I think the story about the IBM 5100 is very odd. We don't rely on old technology to solve our new problems now, so why would that be any different in the future?

You also said that you were in fact able to travel into the future. If you travel 60 years ahead, don't they know the answers to your questions there? Or have you forgotten them once you return in your own worldline?

Once again, please respect my sceptisism! I do appreciate your posts and I learned a great deal from them, as you obviously gained a lot of knowledge about timetravel.

Greetings from Amsterdam.

Rainy in the past, rainy in the present and probably rainy in the future.

Hapy New Worldline to all! :-)

Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum

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[Stellaraxe]

TimeTravel_0 
 

 
 
 
 
  RE: Parallel Universe  [re: Roel van Houten]
      12/30/00 03:37 PM (000.000.000.000)   Edit     Reply   
 
 


To: Roel van Houten
Thank you for trying to answer those questions but I really do not expect that anyone can. I thought I would share with you things we wonder about. Your logic about me is quite correct but again I must state that I am not trying to get you or anyone else to believe or buy anything.

As far as evidence goes…I have however decided to try an experiment with you that may be more convincing. It involves the travel of information at faster than light. In fact, I have dropped at least three little gems like this that no one else has picked up on.

You said you are confused by the 5100 story. I will explain further. In 2036, it was discovered (or at least known after testing) that the 5100 computer was capable of reading and changing all of the legacy code written by IBM before the release of that system and still be able to create new code in APL and basic. That is the reason we need it in 2036. However, that information was never published by IBM because it would have probably destroyed a large part of their business infrastructure in the early 70s. In fact, I would bet the engineers were probably told to keep their mouth’s shut.

Therefore, if I were not here now telling you this, that information would not be discovered for another 36 years. Yet, I would bet there is someone out there who can do the research and discover I am telling the truth. There must be an old IBM engineer out there someplace that worked on the 5100. They just might not have ever asked if I hadn’t pointed it out.


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