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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)  (Read 7579 times)
Bianca
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« Reply #600 on: December 30, 2007, 01:48:56 pm »

Huggy

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  posted 05-13-2006 04:58 PM                       
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that is without counting with lateral pressure from continents which were spread by the weight of ice. the ridge was much higher than today.

 
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« Reply #601 on: December 30, 2007, 01:50:36 pm »

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   posted 05-14-2006 02:45 AM                       
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Atlantis Found
Summary

http://www.blavatsky.net/science/atlantis/articles/atlantis_found_1996.htm

In the 19th century Blavatsky gave impetus to the idea of an Atlantic continent running through the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. She gave some brief history of its inhabitants, identified its location, the times of the sinking of the larger part of the continent, and the time of the last submergence of its principle remaining island. She also specified some land still in existence as land today that was part of Atlantis then. And she gave various cultural arguments for its existence.

The science of her day was quite unhospitable to the idea of a continent in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean because it was committed to the idea of extreme gradualism.

Now 20th century science has found evidence confirming the location of her Atlantis and has also confirmed her statement for the date of its last submergence. A specific seamount (now underwater) in the Atlantic has been named the "Atlantis Seamount" by geologists and is the one that has provided her exact dating.

She also asserted exact knowledge of the nature of part of the ocean floor. In a remarkably precise example of foreknowledge, that assertion has been exactly confirmed by 20th century science. Furthermore, that assertion relates to the prehistory that she has asserted.

(This page only looks at evidence for Atlantis that comes from the floor of the ocean. There are several other classes of valid evidence for Atlantis that are not considered here.)


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Details
Mid-Atlantic ridge and its continuation

In 1882 one of the teachers of Blavatsky wrote to A.P. Sinnett and asserted that Atlantis sunk in the year 9,565 BC. Now Allan and Deloit have written "Cataclysm!" and presented a new view that coordinates emerging new data. They conclude that much more is involved than merely the sinking of one island. Their view, derived wholly from science, is completely consistent with Theosophy. Their book averages together 574 different radio-carbon dates to obtain their best estimate for the year of the sinking. Their date is only 14 years away from the year given by the teacher of Theosophy more than a century earlier! This is very strong supportive evidence for Theosophy. This book is quite important for those interested in Atlantis and those interested in Theosophy.

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The Western and Eastern Hemispheres have been separating for an estimated 200 million years. The two hemispheres move with their respective tectonic plates, separating in the mid-atlantic and leaving a major fracture zone - called the mid-atlantic ridge. The mid-atlantic ridge is the tectonic plate boundary. It is the most prominent feature of the Atlantic floor, and is evident on any map of the ocean floor. There is an elevated land mass at the sides of this ridge.

Just prior to Blavatsky writing Isis Unveiled, an international task force, led by the British ship Challenger and the U.S. Dolphin, obtained the first map of the ocean floor. They lowered buckets on ropes until they contacted the bottom. In the twentieth century, sonar was invented to locate enemy submarines and later it acquired the peace-time use of mapping more accurately the ocean floor. Now satellites have obtained the same information. An article in Discover Magazine March 1996, displays this ocean feature with colored maps obtained indirectly - a satellite detected gravity that implied ocean bottom features.

Blavatsky uses the then recently obtained information on the floor of the Atlantic to justify her position on Atlantis. She says the mid-atlantic ridge is a remnant of that continent.

No more striking confirmation of our position could be given, than the fact that the ELEVATED RIDGE in the Atlantic basin, 9,000 feet in height, which runs for some two or three thousand miles southwards from a point near the British Islands, first slopes towards South America, then shifts almost at right angles to proceed in a SOUTH-EASTERLY line toward the African coast, whence it runs on southward to Tristan d'Acunha. This ridge is a remnant of an Atlantic continent. (SDii333)
Ignatius Donnelly's seminal work, Atlantis: the Antediluvian World, published in 1882, has a map showing this ridge and what was known of it in his day. Blavatsky, however, claims to have knowledge beyond that provided by the research of the good ship Challenger.

She says:

and, could it [the ridge] be traced further [past the island of Tristan d'Acunha], [it] would establish the reality of a submarine horse-shoe junction with a former continent in the Indian Ocean. (Cf. chart adapted from the "Challenger" and "Dolphin" soundings in Mr. Donnelly's, "Atlantis, the Antediluvian World," p. 47) [The map on page 47 that she references, was omitted in later printings of Donnelly's book but is rescued from a 1900 edition and made available by the hot-link above.]
Before examining 20th century knowledge on this point, we should note her exact words. We may think casually that she is making a prediction. But then she might have said "the ridge will be found and it will go along this path ..." - as though she were visualizing the future scene with clairvoyance. Instead she said "could it be traced further ...". Her language suggests she has no specific knowledge on whether or not it will be possible to trace it further. Rather, she simply has knowledge of the subject matter.

And why would Blavatsky have any use for knowledge of some detail of the ocean bottom - a seemingly totally irrelevant item of knowledge? Because it is a remnant of the above-water "horse-shoe" connection to the continent of Lemuria that forms another important element of her presentation of the most ancient prehistory.

This "horse-shoe" shape becomes relevant in observing the 20th century evidence, so two more quotes are offered. They show that in the teaching of Secret Doctrine, Lemuria is the Eastern side of the horse-shoe and Atlantis is the Western part of the horse-shoe. (After Atlantis rises, Lemuria sinks, roughly speaking.)

No confusion need arise as regards the postulation of a Northern "Lemuria." The prolongation of that great continent into the North Atlantic Ocean is in no way subversive of the opinions so widely held as to the site of the lost Atlantis, and one corroborates the other. It must be noted that the Lemuria, which served as the cradle of the Third Root-Race, not only embraced a vast area in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, but extended in the shape of a horse-shoe past Madagascar, round "South Africa" (then a mere fragment in process of formation), through the Atlantic up to Norway. ... thus corroborating the whole "horse-shoe" doctrine already enuciated. (SDii333)
And similarly:

Undoubtedly a fact and a confirmation of the esoteric conception of the Lemuria which originally not only embraced great areas in the Indian and Pacific oceans, but projected round South Africa into the North Atlantic. Its Atlantic portion subsequently become the geological basis of the future home of the Fourth Race Atlanteans. (SDii781)


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Twentieth century oceanographic results

Herbie Brennan has written a most welcome book, "Atlantis Enigma". It is quite easy to read with a style that leads the reader on from chapter to chapter provoking one to keep on reading. In a very accessible way, Brennan explains the evidence supporting the heavy scientific realities and makes them easy to understand. It agrees with "Cataclysm!" described above and gives Theosophists the evidence they need. Throws in a wider range of evidence than "Cataclysm!" to whet one's appetite for answers. Highly recommended.

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So what does 20th century science say? It totally confirms her claimed knowledge about the continuation of the mid-atlantic ridge.

Tristan Da Cunha is a small island complex in the South Atlantic between Buenos Aires Argentina and the southern tip of Africa. Donnelly describes the ridge as terminating at this island group.

reaching from a point on the coast of the British Islands southwardly to the coast of South America, at Cape Orange, thence south-eastwardly to the coast of Africa, and thence southwardly to Tristan d'Acunha. (Ignatius Donnelly, Atlantis the Antediluvian World p 47-49)
The satellite map from Discover Magazine is available. (It is a 153KB file that takes a moment to expand and requires available disk space to do so.) (HELPFUL HINT: In order to have sufficient resolution to show the relevant details on a computer screen it was necessary to use a zoomed in version. The land masses on the map are shown in solid black. To see the eastern portion of the horse-shoe, position the vertical scroll box on the map about 3/4's of the way down and the horizontal scroll box completely to the right. The Cape of Good Hope, Africa will then be in the upper right hand corner and the Atlanto-Lemurian ridge can be seen snaking across the screen.)

If other maps are consulted they will show the ridge (then called the mid-ocean ridge) extending exactly as Blavatsky claimed. Its horse-shoe shape is quite evident. (BN will later obtain such a map and make it available here.) The mid-ocean ridge can also be clearly seen on globes that are readily availble - and in such a way as to again clearly vindicate her claim of knowledge.

Though not wholly satisfying, in lieu of a good map, the following description is offered from the Discover issue.

The midocean ridges themselves, where seafloor geology begins, are visible on the map, too. The Midatlantic Ridge snakes down the center of that ocean from Jan Mayen off Greenland to the latitude of Cape Horn; near Iceland, where its volcanic effusions are so prodigious that it becomes land, it coincides with the most fiery of gravity highs. Under South Africa, the Southwest Indian Ridge shoots into the Indian Ocean like a fizzling rocket, or perhaps like the trail of some giant and cartoonish deep-sea mole. (Discover Magazine March 1996, p 63)
The horse-shoe shape she is describing, is discovered in this century to be the fracture zone along the boundary between tectonic plates.
Since the importance to Blavatsky of this underwater feature is its relation to the prehistory of human life as presented by Theosophy, the confirmation of her assertion should lead to some degree of additional credence to her view of prehistory.


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The Theosophical version of Atlantis - when it sunk
Blavatsky comments on Atlantis many times in the SD - far too many to accumulate here. Briefly, there was a major continent in the Pacific. It had been called Lemuria by a scientist proposing it, so that name was adopted by Blavatsky. Lemuria included present day Australia. Later a land mass arose in the North and South Atlantic, and is called Atlantis in deference to exiting historical traditions. Lemuria then sunk. Atlantis then sunk and other lands rose.

The large continent in the Atlantic did not sink all at once. Blavatsky tells us that the first signs of sinking began more than 4 million years ago. The major sinking occurred 869,000 years ago. Finally the last small remnant of an island, called Poseidonis, sunk some 12,000 years ago.

A quote on the sinking of the "main Atlantis" millions of years ago is:

This event, the destruction of the famous island of Ruta and the smaller one Daitya, which occurred 850,000 years ago in the later Pliocene times, must not be confounded with the submersion of the main continent of Atlantis during the Miocene period. Geologists cannot place the Miocene only so short a way back as 850,000 years; whatever they do, it is several million years ago that the main Atlantis perished. (SDii314 footnote)
We should note that these claims of Theosophy for an inhabited land mass in the Atlantic do not involve major vertical movements of the ocean bottom in recent times. The "main Atlantis" is claimed above to have sunk several millions of years ago. A more "recent" sinking of 850,000 years ago still gives significant time between then and now. The final sinking of 12,000 years ago does not need to be of much magnitude. And mid-atlantic seamounts are now found, relatively close to the water surface. (see below)

Blavatsky's most precise dating for the next notable sinking is:

The very commencement of the latter witnesses, during the Dvapara Yuga, the destruction of the accursed sorcerers; "of the island (Plato speaking only of its last island) beyond the Pillars of Hercules, in the Atlantic Ocean, from which there was an easy transition to other islands in the neighbourhood of another large Continent" (America). It is this "Atlantic" land which was connected with the "White Island" ... it is just 869,000 [years] since that destruction took place. (SDii147)
In other places she more commonly uses a figure of 850,000 years ago for the sinking.

... About 850,000 [years] since the submersion of the last large peninsula of the great Atlantis ... (SDii10)

... 850,000 years ago - at the time of the sinking of the last remnants of the great continent of Atlantis [Blavatsky's footnote: It must be remembered that the "last remnants" here spoken of, refer to those portions of the "great continent" which still remained, and not to any of the numerous islands which existed contemporaneously with the continent. Plato's "island" was, for instance, one of such remnants; the others having sunk at various periods previously.] (SDii250)

We may see the evidence of the "numerous islands" in the numerous seamounts evident today on the ocean bottom.

Next she comments on the last and final sinking some 12,000 years ago.

An impenetrable veil of secrecy was thrown over the occult and religous mysteries taught, after the submersion of the last remnant of the Atlantean race, some 12,000 years ago, lest they should be shared by the unworthy, and so desecrated. (SDii124)

"Atlantis" is the Fourth Continent. It would be the first historical land, were the traditions of the ancients to receive more attention than they have hitherto. The famous island of Plato of that name was but a fragment of this great Continent.

The last serious change occurred some 12,000 years ago, and was followed by the submersion of Plato's little Atlantic island, which he calls Atlantis after its parent continent. Geography was part of the mysteries, in days of old. Says the Zohar (iii. fol. 10a): "These secrets (of land and sea) were divulged to the men of the secret science, but not to the geographers." (SDii8)

Blavatsky adds that Plato purposely combined the story of the last little sinking 12,000 years ago with the older sinking of the larger area.

Plato, while repeating the story as narrated to Solon by the priests of Egypt, intentionally confuses (as every Initiate would) the two continents, and assigns to the small island which sunk last all the events pertaining to the two enormous continents, the prehistoric and traditional. (SDii266)
In a rather elaborate explanation, Blavatsky shows how Plato intentionally combined the sinking 9,000 years prior (for him) with the 850,000 year sinking in veiled language. 1,000 years was held symbolic of 100,000 years - so 9,000 years ago also meant 900,000 years ago - which is close enough.

Now if we compare the 9,000 years mentioned by the Persian tales with the 9,000 years, which Plato declared had passed since the submersion of the last Atlantis, a very strange fact is made apparent. ... "first of all," we read in "Critias" that "one must remember that 9,000 years have elapsed since the war of the nations, which lived above and outside the Pillars of Hercules, and those which peopled the lands on this side." ... In "Timaeus" Plato says the same. The Secret Doctrine declaring that most of the later islander Atlanteans perished in the interval between 850,000 and 700,000 years ago, and that the Aryans were 200,000 years old when the first great "island"or continent was submerged, there hardly seems any reconciliation possible between the figures. But there is, in truth. Plato, being an Initiate, had to use the veiled lanuage of the Sanctuary, ... They of Plato's day, the initiated writers, at any rate, meant by a millennium, not a thousand but 100,000 years; ... Thus when saying 9,000 years, the Initiates will read 900,000 years, during which space of time -i.e. from the first appearance of the Aryan race, when the Pliocene portions of the once great Atlantis began graduallly sinking and other continents to appear on the surface, down to the final disappearance of Plato's small island of Atlantis... (SDii394-5)

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Science in Blavatsky's day

Ignatius Donnelly, a U.S. congressman from Michigan, wrote the first full length book on Atlantis - "Atlantis: The Antediluvian World". It launched Atlantis as a popular subject and showed there was much factual scientific evidence to support the idea. The breadth of Donnelly's research is surprising and informative. It is regarded as still a must read and study for serious students of Atlantis. It provides background material for students of Theosophy. Blavatsky quotes from it in extended passages. Theosophists find an unexpected conmmendation for the book. Blavatsky's teacher, Koot Hoomi, says "The corroboration of tradition and history brought forward by Donnelly I find in the main correct." (Letter 93B)

More
Geology of the 19th century did not accept the idea of a major continent in the Atlantic because it held to a doctrine of gradualism, according to Bellamy.

The immediate success of Donnelly's work was naturally tremendous and world-wide. However, though it effectively stopped further fanciful speculation it did not evoke new research along the lines suggested. The reason was that Donnelly's time was not ripe for the unreserved acceptance of the hypothesis of an island, or minor continent, which was suddenly lost in the Atlantic, chiefly because the geophysical theories going at the time were unable to supply the physical presuppositions for such a loss. Donnelly championed Plato's statement that the end of Atlantis was due to a sudden terrestrial convulsion - and this was the era of gradualism in geology which admitted only of almost imperceptibly slow changes in the features of the earth's surface. (Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, by Ignatius Donnelly, 1949 edition, p. xiii-xiv)
By the turn of the century Blavatsky's Atlantis still could not receive scientific study. Bellamy continues,

When a new school of investigators slowly arose, some twenty years after the publication of Donnelly's Atlantis book, they concerned themselves chiefly with the cultural relationships which he had indicated, with more or less distant Atlantis echoes, and not with the subject of Atlantology proper, the problem of the Lost Land in the Atlantic.


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Current evidence from the floor of the ocean
In a 1954 issue of Geological Society of America, Bulletin, Bruce Heezen and others reported on a seamount - an underwater mountain - that has been named Atlantis by geologists and is in the Atlantic Ocean. It has been found to have been an island about 12,000 years ago - exactly the time specified by Blavatsky! This abstract is given:

The Atlantis, Cruiser, and Great Meteor seamounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge to 37°N. 32°W. southeast to Great Sea mount at 30°N. 28°W. The Atlantis Sea mount, briefly explored 1947 and 1948, was found by echo sounding and submarine photography to have a fairly flat bedrock summit area at about 180 fathoms covered in some cases by current-rippled sand. Its slopes are covered with sand or ooze symmetrically rippled at 400 fathoms and marked by slump features in 570 fathoms. A small piece of volcanic agglomerate was dredged from 400 fathoms on the north slope. About a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area. One of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12,000 years ±900 (J.L. Kulp). The state of lithification of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under subaerial [i.e. above water, on land surface] conditions and that the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12,000 years. (Heezen, Bruce C., et al, "Flat-Topped Atlantis, Cruiser, And Great Meteor Sea Mounts" in Geological Society of America, Bulletin, 65:1261, 1954 (Protogonos issue 9))

In later studies, evidence was found for the remnants of a "sunken block of continent" in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. An article in New Scientist 1975 summarizes the result. (Anonymous, New Scientist, 66:540, 1975)

Although they make no such fanciful claim from their results as to have discovered the mythical mid-Atlantic landmass, an international group of oceanographers has now convincingly confirmed preliminary findings that a sunken block of continent lies in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes from analysing dredge samples taken along the line of the Vema offset fault, a long east-west fracture zone lying between Africa and South America close to latitude 11øN.

The article describes the first report of "shallow-water limestone fragments" from the Vema Fracture in the Atlantic:

Four years ago two University of Miami workers, J. Honnorez and E. Bonatti, first reported the recovery of shallow-water limestone fragments from the Vema fracture zone. This limestone contained minerals indicative of a nearby granitic source unlikely to occur on the ocean floor. Neither water currents, nor more esoteric transport systems, could explain the presence of these rocks so far from the modern boundaries of the continents. The two researchers believed that, instead, the granitic grains must have been deposited close to their source.

Then the recent researchers are noted:

Now, with C. Emiliani of Miami, Paul Bronniman of the University of Geneva, M.A. Furrer of Esso Production Research, Begles, and A.A. Meyerhof, a consulting geologist from Tulsa, USA, they have carried out a more searching analysis of the dredge samples (Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 26, p.Cool
Finally he notes the evidence for activity in less than 30 meters of water, and even some evidence for activity in soil.

The Limestones include traces of shallow-water fossils - foraminifera, green algae, bits of gastropods, and crab coprolites - implying formation in water, in one instance, less than 30 m deep. Furthermore, the limestones have been recrystallized from a high to low-magnesium form of calcite. Oxygen and carbon-isotope ratios prove conclusively that this process must have taken place subaerially [on land surface] "through the action of meteoric water enriched in light carbon while passing through a soil zone ..." A pitted limestone sample bears evidence of tidal action. Some 50 km east of the dredge site along the Vema fracture the team also recovered a thick-shelled, shallow-water, bivalve fossil from a depth of over 2000 m.

The coprolites in the sample indicate a Mesozoic age for the limestone which may well be the sedimentary capping on a residual continental block left behind as the [??] spread out into an ocean. The granitic minerals could thus have come from the bordering continents while the ocean was still in its infancy. Vertical movements made by the block appear to have raised it above sea level at some period during its history.

(The above information is from Protogonos Spring 1990, #9 which obtained it from Unknown Earth: A Handbook of Geological Enigmas by William R. Corliss.)

Since many readers may have heard of the pangaea theory of science and since that might appear to preclude the view of the SD on Atlantis, we offer the comment of Mark Jaqua in Protogonos:

Modern geology is of the opinion that all present continents were once part of a large super-continent which is labeled "Pangaea". The Pangaea hypothesis was first presented by Alfred Wegener in the 1920's and today is held by most. Whether the hypothesis stands up to further evidence and reasoning only time will tell. When one considers, as modern theory has it, that the Americas, Europe and Africa were initially joined, it seems to leave no room for a possible mid-atlantic continent. The pangaean continent is held to have begun separating some 200 million years ago, which is long enough ago to be consistent with the Theosophical teaching. Additionally it should be held in mind that while still consisting of "continental plates" large portions of the Americas or Europe/Africa may have spent long periods of time submerged. ... Continental drift theory holds that the crust plates that form the continents are initially set in motion by the uprising of a mountain chain. The Atlantic has a submerged mountain chain that runs its entire length, which supports the continental drift theory as well as the claims of Theosophy about Atlantis." (Protogonos Spring 1990, #9 p 24)
To reinforce the Protogonos article: The pangaean view holds that the Western Hemisphere and Europe-Africa began separating some 200 million years ago. Blavatsky claims the Atlantean continent began its first signs of sinking some 4 million years ago. Atlantis, in the Theosophical view, could not have risen above water "too many" millions of years before that, since Lemuria was first above water while Atlantis had not yet risen. This time-line gives plenty of time for the hemispheric separation to start, and, at a relatively much later time, for the Atlantean continent to have risen and sunk. So the Pangaean and Atlantean theories are not in conflict. One does not preclude the other.

There is a time difficulty remaining between science and Theosophy. Theosophy gives a much much longer history to humanity on earth than does science. Theosophy not only has Atlantis above water millions of years ago but also has it peopled by human beings. Darwinism can in no way accommodate such an ancient history for man. Geologists, under the views imposed upon them by another department of science - evolutionary theory - understandably reject the idea of an Atlantean continent millions of years ago peopled by human beings. However they ought to be more forthright in accepting the reasonableness of Plato's small island in the Atlantic in view of the above evidence. In a sense they have, in choosing to name one of the seamounts "Atlantis". (For all we know, they picked the right one.)

We find here the relatedness of the elements of the Theosophical view - a matter that comes up often. Briefly, Theosophy agrees that evolution occured but completely disagrees with Darwinism on the "origin of the species". Scientific evolutionary theory has been forced by the data to take steps that move away from Darwin's view of the origin of the species and in the direction of Theosophy's view. Beyond the standard view, there is weighty evidence accumulating in favor of Theosophy's view. In sum, this is looking like a great vindication for Theosophy in the making and it is occuring during our time. This subject will eventually receive much more fuller analysis at this site. So a person willing to consider all the Theosophical views and their degree of confirmation, not need have this time-line difficulty that constrains traditional science.


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The "right" maps
The maps showing the fracture zone between the tectonic plates have some use for these purposes. They show the path of, and the reasonableness of, Theosophy's view of the Atlantean and Lemurian land connection. However, they do not persuasively reveal the information that shows the great reasonableness of Theosophy's assertion of a land mass in mid Atlantic. Without knowing the facts we might think the Atlantic ocean is simply "very deep" all the way between the bordering continents. Not so. What is needed is an east-west cross-sectional map showing the depth of the ocean bottom as one crosses the ocean. Since there are issues of what latitude to chose, seamounts etc, better yet is a topographic map of the ocean with continuous lines indicating points of equal depth.

Here is the cross-sectional map that Donnelly chose for the frontis-piece of his seminal book. (It appears in a 1900 edition but not in a 1949 "modern revised edition".)


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This map makes the location and reasonableness of Atlantis glaringly obvious. It shows the clear existence of a large mid-ocean continental mass.(A zoomed-in version is available.)Note that the horizontal axis has been greatly compressed relative to the vertical axis. Otherwise the map would have to be drawn on a very long roll of paper! As a result the slopes of Atlantis look much more "steep" than they are in reality. Then again, this compression of the horizontal axis brings the existence of the central continental land mass to our attention more vividly.

A warning is also due that this map is from 1900. However, even with adjustments that might arise from more detailed accuracy in this century, this map still reveals the basic facts.

CONCLUSION: Information from the ocean floor is clearly supportive of the geologic facts of Atlantis asserted by Theosophy.

 
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« Reply #602 on: December 30, 2007, 01:51:37 pm »

Jennifer O'Dell

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   posted 05-14-2006 03:23 AM                       
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I wouldn't mention Blavatsky too much around here, nobody likes her...
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« Reply #603 on: December 30, 2007, 01:53:00 pm »

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   posted 05-14-2006 12:49 PM                       
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According to geological data, there had been no rising or sinking of the earth-crust in the Atlantic Ocean area not only in the last dozens of thousands, but even in millions of years, that would be commensurate with the sinking of a big island or a small continent. The map of the Atlantic itself bears it out graphically: the outlines of the continental platforms of Africa and South America fit in ideally; similarly, North America, Greenland, Scandinavia and Europe make up a perfectly fitting mosaic, in which there simply is no room for an allegedly lost fragment (particularly of such dimensions as Plato described). All the edges of the continental shelf facing the ocean also coincide with the bends of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and the earth-crust rift zone itself, from which continents are "sliding apart".

The 200 metres isodepth line on the map of the Atlantic Ocean gives an approximate idea of how the coastline must have looked at that time.

It can be seen that in the area of the present Azores and Canaries, which are most often pointed out as the remains of the sunken Atlantis, there had been no sizeable land area.

It can also be seen that in the west of Europe, where now the North Sea is situated, and around the British Isles, during the last Ice Age there had existed a vast area of land, large enough, without any stretch, for a plain two by three thousand stades.

http://www.think-aboutit.com/atlantis/AtlantisNewHypothesis.htm

 
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« Reply #604 on: December 30, 2007, 01:53:52 pm »

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Nobody believes her. Shes in a league with Adamski, Sitchin and Volitzer. 
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« Reply #605 on: December 30, 2007, 01:54:54 pm »

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quote:
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It can be seen that in the area of the present Azores and Canaries, which are most often pointed out as the remains of the sunken Atlantis, there had been no sizeable land area.

It can also be seen that in the west of Europe, where now the North Sea is situated, and around the British Isles, during the last Ice Age there had existed a vast area of land, large enough, without any stretch, for a plain two by three thousand stades.
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Clearly, Plato's measurements were off, or else there is something we are not seeing yet. If one places Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean, the two of the three best candidates would be in the Canaries and Azores, with the third being in the Bahamas region.

the Azores>>>Geologist Christian O'Brien suggests that these islands were once part of a bigger landmass. Stone buildings and a statue were said to be found on the smallest island, Corso, upon their original discovery.

the Canaries>>>Prone to massive landslides in the past, perhaps there is one that we missed.

Bahamas>>>According to information I've read here, the natives of the area claim the Bahamas Islands once comprised a single massive island.

None of these islands in themselves, even made larger, would fit the dimensions of Plato's Atlantic Island. Then, maybe he was referring to the size of the empire itself (islands amidst the ocean) when he stated it was "larger than Libya and Asia combined."

--------------------
"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."

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« Reply #606 on: December 30, 2007, 01:56:42 pm »

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« Reply #607 on: December 30, 2007, 01:58:02 pm »

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On the western side of Meru, O king, is Ketumala. 2 And there also is Jamvukhanda. Both are great seats of humanity, O king. 3 There, O Bharata, the measure of human life is ten thousand years. The men are all of a golden complexion, and the women are like Apsaras. And all the residents are without sickness, without sorrow, and always cheerful. The men born there are of the effulgence of melted gold. On the summits of Gandhamadana, Kuvera the lord of the Guhyakas, with many Rakshasas and accompanied by tribes of Apsaras, passeth his time in joy. Besides Gandhamadana there are many smaller mountains and hills. The measure of human life there is eleven thousand years. There, O king, the men are cheerful, and endued with great energy and great strength and the women are all of the complexion of the lotus and highly beautiful. Beyond Nila is (the Varsha called) Sweta, beyond Sweta is (the Varsha called) Hiranyaka. Beyond Hiranyaka is (the Varsha called) Airavata covered with provinces. The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow. These five Varshas (viz., Sweta, Hiranyaka, Elavrita, Harivarsha, and Haimavat-varsha) are in the middle, of which Elavrita exists in the very middle of all. Amongst these seven Varshas (the five already mentioned and Airavata and Bharata) that which is further north excels the one to its immediate south in respect of these attributes, viz., the period of life, stature, health, righteousness, pleasure, and profit. In these Varshas, O Bharata, creatures (though of diverse species) yet, live together. Thus, O king, is Earth covered with mountains. The huge mountains of Hemakuta are otherwise called Kailasa. There, O king, Vaisravana passeth his time in joy with his Guhyakas. Immediately to the north of Kailasa and near the mountains of Mainaka there is a huge and beautiful mountain called Manimaya endued with golden summits. Beside this mountain is a large, beautiful, crystal and delightful lake called Vindusaras with golden sands (on its beach).

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

 
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« Reply #608 on: December 30, 2007, 01:59:03 pm »

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More than any other culture, the people of Gaul and the British Isles have a rich tradition populated with uncanny visitations from the ocean's depths and cities sunken by the wrath of the sea, so it is easy to believe that something momentous must have happened to this land and its people, culminating in a series of events so catastrophic the memory still lingers in the myths and legends of the surrounding countryside. Recorded history tells us almost nothing for the people of this land came late to the written word; yet, it is possible to draw a broad outline of this distant past from the scant records, filling in the blanks with newly discovered genetic, archeological and geological data.

At the seaward end of the Dyfi Valley in Wales, you can sometimes see the ancient remains of a submerged forest. These decaying stumps of 3,500 year-old trees once surrounded the sunken cities of a great kingdom called Cantref y Gwaelod. Its many towns, farms and gleaming cities were protected from the sea by a series of sluices and dams but years of neglect weakened the defenses. One night in the depths of winter during the highest tides of the season, a gigantic storm produced a huge surge that swept over the dam as one great wave and the whole of the kingdom vanished beneath the sea. Some of the ancient roadways and part of the dam system, it is said, are still visible out in the bay during the lowest tides of the year.

Lyonesse, a kingdom that lay between Land's End and St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall, is another realm submerged beneath the waves in the blink of an eye. At certain tides, the muffled chiming of bells can still be heard, while it was reported for centuries that fishermen would sometimes snag roof tiles in their nets.

St Michael's Mount, a lofty pyramidal tidal island exhibiting a curious combination of slate and granite, rises just off the shore of Mount's Bay in Cornwall. Its name in Cornish means "the grey rock in the wood", which may stem from a time before the bay was flooded, since it is an accurate description of a mountain set in a woodland. Local legends tell of a forest that sunk at the same time as the flooding of Lyonesse.

Attempts have been made to place the sinking of Lyonesse somewhere at the end of the first millennium of the current era, but no entries related to the place have been found in any of the records of that period. We do know of other places lost to the sea around this time, though the process took much longer. The sinking of the central plain that once made the Scilly Isles one landmass began during the Bronze Age. More than five hundred Neolithic and Bronze Age sites above the present high water line have been excavated, and, at low tide, rectangular and square field walls, hut circles, graves and cists show clearly that the whole central area between the islands of St Mary, Tresco, Bryher and St Martin was once a fertile plain surrounded by the hills and crags that are now islands and rocks. Scilly was still one island in Roman times but most of it was marshy ground. It was not until the Tudor period that the last part of this marshland sank, leaving the islands as we know them today.

Across the antediluvian plain now covered by the waters of the English Channel, the sunken city of Ys lies in the Bay of Douarnenez off the coast of Brittany. The Brythonic Llydaw - the Breton Peninsula - shares a numinous heritage with the Gaelic Lochlann as the home of otherworldly creatures, for Brittany has always been regarded as a land of marvels where places like the forest of Brocéliande offer a home to fairies and wizards, and drowned cities hint at a mystical world, lost, like Atlantis, beneath the green waves of the Atlantic.

According to the legend, Gradlon, the King of Cornwall, made Ys his capitol. He owned a great fleet that he used to fight against his enemies, often in distant countries where the weather was cold. He was an excellent sailor and strategist and often won his battles, plundering the enemy boats and filling his chests with gold and trophies, so that the fame of his city spread throughout the world.

Ys was protected from the ocean by a strong dyke and by a gate built into the dyke to take the outflowing tidal water. Either by treachery or by accident, the gate was left open and the sea rushed in, inundating the city and the surrounding country. After the sinking of Ys, Gradlon moved his capitol to Quimper, which raises the question, why would the king of Cornwall move his capitol to Brittany unless Cornwall and Brittany were parts of the same kingdom? And did they also occupy the same geographic landmass before the sinking of Ys?

A possible answer may be found in The Mabinongion, a collection of medieval Welsh stories translated by Lady Charlotte Guest in the 19th century. The story of "Branwen, Daughter of Llyr" concerns the marriage of the sister of Bran and Manannan to the King of Ireland, her mistreatment at his hands and the war that ensued. When Bran set out to rescue his sister, the oldest translations state that he traveled primarily by land as he crossed between the islands of Britain and Ireland: "Bendigeidfran and the host… sailed towards Ireland, and in those days the deep water was not wide. He went by wading. There were but two rivers, the Lli and the Archan were they called, but thereafter the deep water grew wider when the deep overflowed the kingdoms."

http://www.geocities.com/blessed_isles/Lochlann/Images/Europe9560bc.jpg

 
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« Reply #609 on: December 30, 2007, 02:00:25 pm »

Although largely based on early medieval historical events, scholars agree that some references in The Mabinongion may go as far back as the beginning of the Iron Age, around 800 BCE. The problem with this particular reference is that the separation of Ireland from Britain occurred much earlier. Dates on the freshwater sediments found on the shelf of the Irish Sea, coupled with the results of geophysical modeling of Earth crustal rebound from ice loading, suggest a severance of the land bridge connection between Britain and Ireland occurred around 10,000 BCE. And the final inundation of the land bridge linking the island of Britain to the mainland of Europe has been traced to the events that created the Straits of Dover around 6500 BCE.

http://www.geocities.com/blessed_isles/Lochlann/Page2.html

Briwnys

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« Reply #610 on: December 30, 2007, 02:01:59 pm »

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Well, the point is that the place was overran by water, at the time when the great flood appeared.

Scandinavia was overran. And it rose again. As the ocean-level rose with it. Though, - the reaction to the disappearance of the ice-cap over-running Scandinvania was big enough to induce a tectonic pressure that made Scandinavia itself to rise twice as much as the general rise of the ocean-level. Thus the inner part of Fenno-Scandina are believed to have been the centre of the Scandinavian-Russian ice-cap - because the northern part of the Botnic Bay have risen 220 metres, pluss the rising of the ocean-level, believed to have been some 160 metres.

Today the rising of the Scandinavian Penninsula have lasted for 10.000 years. Today we also know that the speed of the rising was great at first, kick-started by the sudden down-sliding of the ice-cap, filling the ocean and rising its level - some 10-13.000 years ago. The first 200 metres rise happened within the first 300 years, thereafter rising 200 meters more in 10.000 years - gradually slowing down. Presently we're down to some 1/3 cm a year - so soon we should be comming to a full stop of the tectonic aftermath of the Scandsinavian ice-time.

Simultaniously the last glaciers of the poles seems to disapear, as do the glacier covering Greenland. Thus we may have to adjust once again to a new type of climate, as our ancestors did - wherever they lived - when ice-time occurred and the global climate changed deastically. When they could survive that cataclysm, we should still have a fair chance surviving ours - somehow. Looking into the reality of our Atlantean ancestors - that crossed the oceans 10.000 years ago - we might even learn a thing or two about how to handle climatical or global changes. As long as we still have Scandinavia we don't need the Atlantic Ridge to explain the Atlantean "hartland" and geography. 
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« Reply #611 on: December 30, 2007, 02:02:48 pm »

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quote:
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Lyonesse, a kingdom that lay between Land's End and St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall, is another realm submerged beneath the waves in the blink of an eye. At certain tides, the muffled chiming of bells can still be heard, while it was reported for centuries that fishermen would sometimes snag roof tiles in their nets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has evidence ever been found that Lyoness ever existed? Far as I know, it is a folk legend based on the real disappearance of ancient Dunwich, which also mentions the muffled chiming of bells. 
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« Reply #612 on: December 30, 2007, 02:03:51 pm »

Author  Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 
Helios

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It can be seen that in the area of the present Azores and Canaries, which are most often pointed out as the remains of the sunken Atlantis, there had been no sizeable land area.

It can also be seen that in the west of Europe, where now the North Sea is situated, and around the British Isles, during the last Ice Age there had existed a vast area of land, large enough, without any stretch, for a plain two by three thousand stades.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, Plato's measurements were off, or else there is something we are not seeing yet. If one places Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean, the two of the three best candidates would be in the Canaries and Azores, with the third being in the Bahamas region.

the Azores>>>Geologist Christian O'Brien suggests that these islands were once part of a bigger landmass. Stone buildings and a statue were said to be found on the smallest island, Corso, upon their original discovery.

the Canaries>>>Prone to massive landslides in the past, perhaps there is one that we missed.

Bahamas>>>According to information I've read here, the natives of the area claim the Bahamas Islands once comprised a single massive island.

None of these islands in themselves, even made larger, would fit the dimensions of Plato's Atlantic Island. Then, maybe he was referring to the size of the empire itself (islands amidst the ocean) when he stated it was "larger than Libya and Asia combined."

--------------------
"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together..."

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http://dusk2.geo.orst.edu/djl/viz/mar_ve2.gif

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As Above So Below.

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Huggy

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On the western side of Meru, O king, is Ketumala. 2 And there also is Jamvukhanda. Both are great seats of humanity, O king. 3 There, O Bharata, the measure of human life is ten thousand years. The men are all of a golden complexion, and the women are like Apsaras. And all the residents are without sickness, without sorrow, and always cheerful. The men born there are of the effulgence of melted gold. On the summits of Gandhamadana, Kuvera the lord of the Guhyakas, with many Rakshasas and accompanied by tribes of Apsaras, passeth his time in joy. Besides Gandhamadana there are many smaller mountains and hills. The measure of human life there is eleven thousand years. There, O king, the men are cheerful, and endued with great energy and great strength and the women are all of the complexion of the lotus and highly beautiful. Beyond Nila is (the Varsha called) Sweta, beyond Sweta is (the Varsha called) Hiranyaka. Beyond Hiranyaka is (the Varsha called) Airavata covered with provinces. The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow. These five Varshas (viz., Sweta, Hiranyaka, Elavrita, Harivarsha, and Haimavat-varsha) are in the middle, of which Elavrita exists in the very middle of all. Amongst these seven Varshas (the five already mentioned and Airavata and Bharata) that which is further north excels the one to its immediate south in respect of these attributes, viz., the period of life, stature, health, righteousness, pleasure, and profit. In these Varshas, O Bharata, creatures (though of diverse species) yet, live together. Thus, O king, is Earth covered with mountains. The huge mountains of Hemakuta are otherwise called Kailasa. There, O king, Vaisravana passeth his time in joy with his Guhyakas. Immediately to the north of Kailasa and near the mountains of Mainaka there is a huge and beautiful mountain called Manimaya endued with golden summits. Beside this mountain is a large, beautiful, crystal and delightful lake called Vindusaras with golden sands (on its beach).

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

The last Varsha in the (extreme) north and Bharata's Varsha in the (extreme) south are both, O king, of the form of a bow.

[ 05-14-2006, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Huggy Bear ]

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Briwnys

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More than any other culture, the people of Gaul and the British Isles have a rich tradition populated with uncanny visitations from the ocean's depths and cities sunken by the wrath of the sea, so it is easy to believe that something momentous must have happened to this land and its people, culminating in a series of events so catastrophic the memory still lingers in the myths and legends of the surrounding countryside. Recorded history tells us almost nothing for the people of this land came late to the written word; yet, it is possible to draw a broad outline of this distant past from the scant records, filling in the blanks with newly discovered genetic, archeological and geological data.

At the seaward end of the Dyfi Valley in Wales, you can sometimes see the ancient remains of a submerged forest. These decaying stumps of 3,500 year-old trees once surrounded the sunken cities of a great kingdom called Cantref y Gwaelod. Its many towns, farms and gleaming cities were protected from the sea by a series of sluices and dams but years of neglect weakened the defenses. One night in the depths of winter during the highest tides of the season, a gigantic storm produced a huge surge that swept over the dam as one great wave and the whole of the kingdom vanished beneath the sea. Some of the ancient roadways and part of the dam system, it is said, are still visible out in the bay during the lowest tides of the year.

Lyonesse, a kingdom that lay between Land's End and St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall, is another realm submerged beneath the waves in the blink of an eye. At certain tides, the muffled chiming of bells can still be heard, while it was reported for centuries that fishermen would sometimes snag roof tiles in their nets.

St Michael's Mount, a lofty pyramidal tidal island exhibiting a curious combination of slate and granite, rises just off the shore of Mount's Bay in Cornwall. Its name in Cornish means "the grey rock in the wood", which may stem from a time before the bay was flooded, since it is an accurate description of a mountain set in a woodland. Local legends tell of a forest that sunk at the same time as the flooding of Lyonesse.

Attempts have been made to place the sinking of Lyonesse somewhere at the end of the first millennium of the current era, but no entries related to the place have been found in any of the records of that period. We do know of other places lost to the sea around this time, though the process took much longer. The sinking of the central plain that once made the Scilly Isles one landmass began during the Bronze Age. More than five hundred Neolithic and Bronze Age sites above the present high water line have been excavated, and, at low tide, rectangular and square field walls, hut circles, graves and cists show clearly that the whole central area between the islands of St Mary, Tresco, Bryher and St Martin was once a fertile plain surrounded by the hills and crags that are now islands and rocks. Scilly was still one island in Roman times but most of it was marshy ground. It was not until the Tudor period that the last part of this marshland sank, leaving the islands as we know them today.

Across the antediluvian plain now covered by the waters of the English Channel, the sunken city of Ys lies in the Bay of Douarnenez off the coast of Brittany. The Brythonic Llydaw - the Breton Peninsula - shares a numinous heritage with the Gaelic Lochlann as the home of otherworldly creatures, for Brittany has always been regarded as a land of marvels where places like the forest of Brocéliande offer a home to fairies and wizards, and drowned cities hint at a mystical world, lost, like Atlantis, beneath the green waves of the Atlantic.

According to the legend, Gradlon, the King of Cornwall, made Ys his capitol. He owned a great fleet that he used to fight against his enemies, often in distant countries where the weather was cold. He was an excellent sailor and strategist and often won his battles, plundering the enemy boats and filling his chests with gold and trophies, so that the fame of his city spread throughout the world.

Ys was protected from the ocean by a strong dyke and by a gate built into the dyke to take the outflowing tidal water. Either by treachery or by accident, the gate was left open and the sea rushed in, inundating the city and the surrounding country. After the sinking of Ys, Gradlon moved his capitol to Quimper, which raises the question, why would the king of Cornwall move his capitol to Brittany unless Cornwall and Brittany were parts of the same kingdom? And did they also occupy the same geographic landmass before the sinking of Ys?

A possible answer may be found in The Mabinongion, a collection of medieval Welsh stories translated by Lady Charlotte Guest in the 19th century. The story of "Branwen, Daughter of Llyr" concerns the marriage of the sister of Bran and Manannan to the King of Ireland, her mistreatment at his hands and the war that ensued. When Bran set out to rescue his sister, the oldest translations state that he traveled primarily by land as he crossed between the islands of Britain and Ireland: "Bendigeidfran and the host… sailed towards Ireland, and in those days the deep water was not wide. He went by wading. There were but two rivers, the Lli and the Archan were they called, but thereafter the deep water grew wider when the deep overflowed the kingdoms."

http://www.geocities.com/blessed_isles/Lochlann/Images/Europe9560bc.jpg


Although largely based on early medieval historical events, scholars agree that some references in The Mabinongion may go as far back as the beginning of the Iron Age, around 800 BCE. The problem with this particular reference is that the separation of Ireland from Britain occurred much earlier. Dates on the freshwater sediments found on the shelf of the Irish Sea, coupled with the results of geophysical modeling of Earth crustal rebound from ice loading, suggest a severance of the land bridge connection between Britain and Ireland occurred around 10,000 BCE. And the final inundation of the land bridge linking the island of Britain to the mainland of Europe has been traced to the events that created the Straits of Dover around 6500 BCE.

http://www.geocities.com/blessed_isles/Lochlann/Page2.html

Briwnys

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Boreasi

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Well, the point is that the place was overran by water, at the time when the great flood appeared.

Scandinavia was overran. And it rose again. As the ocean-level rose with it. Though, - the reaction to the disappearance of the ice-cap over-running Scandinvania was big enough to induce a tectonic pressure that made Scandinavia itself to rise twice as much as the general rise of the ocean-level. Thus the inner part of Fenno-Scandina are believed to have been the centre of the Scandinavian-Russian ice-cap - because the northern part of the Botnic Bay have risen 220 metres, pluss the rising of the ocean-level, believed to have been some 160 metres.

Today the rising of the Scandinavian Penninsula have lasted for 10.000 years. Today we also know that the speed of the rising was great at first, kick-started by the sudden down-sliding of the ice-cap, filling the ocean and rising its level - some 10-13.000 years ago. The first 200 metres rise happened within the first 300 years, thereafter rising 200 meters more in 10.000 years - gradually slowing down. Presently we're down to some 1/3 cm a year - so soon we should be comming to a full stop of the tectonic aftermath of the Scandsinavian ice-time.

Simultaniously the last glaciers of the poles seems to disapear, as do the glacier covering Greenland. Thus we may have to adjust once again to a new type of climate, as our ancestors did - wherever they lived - when ice-time occurred and the global climate changed deastically. When they could survive that cataclysm, we should still have a fair chance surviving ours - somehow. Looking into the reality of our Atlantean ancestors - that crossed the oceans 10.000 years ago - we might even learn a thing or two about how to handle climatical or global changes. As long as we still have Scandinavia we don't need the Atlantic Ridge to explain the Atlantean "hartland" and geography.
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Trinity

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   posted 05-15-2006 10:37 PM                       
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Lyonesse, a kingdom that lay between Land's End and St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall, is another realm submerged beneath the waves in the blink of an eye. At certain tides, the muffled chiming of bells can still be heard, while it was reported for centuries that fishermen would sometimes snag roof tiles in their nets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has evidence ever been found that Lyoness ever existed? Far as I know, it is a folk legend based on the real disappearance of ancient Dunwich, which also mentions the muffled chiming of bells.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Briwnys

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Attempts have been made to place the sinking of Lyonesse somewhere at the end of the first millennium of the current era, but no entries related to the place have been found in any of the records of that period.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lyonesse, like many of the other cities mentioned, have never been specifically proved to have existed. The persistance of the legends and some of the evidence, such as sunken forests,recovered artifacts and similarity of the accounts, does indicate there is some validity to these stories.

In September 2003, evidence of two Stone Age settlements was found in the British North Sea, dating back as far as 10,000 years. The cities, located more than 500 meters off the Tyneside coast, were submerged as sea levels rose after the last ice age.

David Miles, chief archaeologist at English Heritage, said, "We know that there is a prehistoric Atlantis beneath the North sea, where an area equal to the size of Britain attached us to the continent. This discovery gives us a stepping stone into this unknown world."

http://s8int.com/water9.html


Briwnys
 
 
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« Reply #613 on: December 30, 2007, 02:04:49 pm »

rockessence

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   posted 05-16-2006 10:29 AM                       
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Briwnys,

This was specifically spoken of in the Oera Linde papers, and is also discussed in Felice Vinci's new book on Homer: The Baltic Origin of Homer's Epic Tales

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000116

"a prehistoric Atlantis beneath the North sea, where an area equal to the size of Britain attached us to the continent"

In the Oera Linde material, (if I recall) it was at that time and island called Aland, and the sinking of it was horribly shocking, as the people there were considered to be at an extremely high spiritual level.

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All knowledge is to be used in the manner that will give help and assistance to others, and the desire is that the laws of the Creator be manifested in the physical world. E.Cayce 254-17
 
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« Reply #614 on: December 30, 2007, 02:05:43 pm »

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The "Graveyard of the Sun" was constructed as a fortified memorial around a meteorite crater at approximately 700 to 400 BC. Previously ca. 5500 BC (=7500 BP) a meteorite had crashed to earth and destroyed Saaremaa, an island off the coast of Estonia. http://www.muinas.ee/ecp/kaali/en/html/facts.html

http://www.saaremaa.ee/eng/tourism/saaremaa/kaali.php

ca 2000 BC, a lake formed in the center of the main Kaali crater. It was regarded as a sacred lake by the local peoples.

The local people preserve a legend that Phaethon (of Greek myths), whom the locals call Fetonte, crashed to earth there.

Here is a link which explains the Graveyard of the Sun, and discusses the possibility that Pytheas visited the crater, ca 350 BC.

quote from:
http://webpages.charter.net/anthropogene/arc_vol2_is11.html

The Germanic tribes mentioned by Pytheas are the Guiones or Gutones, later known as the Goths who would gathered the amber off the shores and the Teutoni.who appeared to be the middlemen in the amber trade.

The tin trade had Ictis, the amber trade had an equally mysterious locale known as Abalus or Basilia - whose exact location is unknown and whose reputation enjoys almost supernatural renown - being the Germanic Avalon. Tacitus in his account of the Germans makes passing reference to the isle, and if one is willing to accept the veracity of the Oera Linda manuscript, the island may have been a center of the old earth mother religion. In regards to Pytheas, best to pass by these speculations...

Regardless, the ocean's work has erased most of Abalus. Pytheas may have mentioned the destruction that occurred along the coastline 20 years (350 BC) or so before his voyage, that isolated the West Frisian islands from the mainland, and let the sea into the fresh water lake now known as the Zuyder Dee. Later would follow the great inundation that would drive the Cimbri and Teutoni towards their fateful encounter with Rome.

Xenophon claimed Abalus was a three days sail from the coastline and of immense size. Today, the island of Heligoland, the best guess, is hardly immense in any way, though "its red cliffs, two hundred feet high create a reassuring and easily recognizable landmark... an ideal off-shore port-of-trade."- Barry Cunliffe

Most curiously, the priests or priestess's of Abalus ceremonially burnt amber. An offering to the gods of the sky? For as the tale went, amber were the tears of the sisters of Fetonte, who wept along the banks of the Eridanus after his fall from heaven.

The Grave of the Sun

"...the Aests showed him the grave of the Sun, or the place where the Sun fell asleep."

Barry Cunliffe in his book The Extraordinary Voyage of Pytheas the Greek makes no claim that Pytheas ventured into the Baltic sea area, J. Oliver Thomson believes he did in order to learn more about amber and that the Massaliot did indeed visit "the whole of the coasts of Europe."

If he did then the above quote would be confirmation that Pytheas had encountered the Aestii, a Fenno-Ugric people inhabiting present day Estonia. And there is only one spot that would match "the place where the Sun fell asleep."

Off the coast of Estonia is the island of Saarema. Here archaeologists have found the remains of towns (the Asva dig), indicating that during the Bronze Age the island was, relatively speaking, densely populated. Whether these people were the Aests, or if the Aests came later in unknown, but whoever they were enough has been found to indicate a thriving culture, dependent on cattle, agriculture and fishing.

The exact date of their demise is unknown, sometime between 800 BC and 400 BC, the people of the island would suffer an apocalyptic fate. Then storytellers would tell how the chariot of Helios Apollo, driven by the hapless Phaethon (Fetonte) would burn the earth. Now scientists know that a 1000 ton iron meteorite struck Saarema, causing a 20 kiloton blast, larger than the nuclear bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.

A layer of glass spherules and meteor fragments have been uncovered. Six kilometers west of the impact site, the telltale sign of iridium (an impact ejecta) was found in the Piila bog and confirmed through the usual methods such as carbon dating. A layer of charcoal indicates that forest fires must have engulfed most of the island in the aftermath of the blast.

The impact crater is easily found. 350 feet across, the shallow lake known as the Kaali Crater marks the site, surrounded by eight smaller craters. This Estonian website has greater detail on the event.

Recovery was slow in the aftermath of Kaali, though people eventually did return - crop cultivation started again after a hundred years.

The lake would become a sacred place - and exploited economically once the fear was gone and it was realized that the meteorite fragments could be smelted into iron. By the time of Pytheas, a log fortress with five towers had been erected at the site, a stone wall built around the crater.

A Flight of Fancy

The Massaliot returned home, and published his account, the book eventually finding a home in the ill-fated Library of Alexandria. There are no details how he fared after his epic voyage or whether he undertook similar expeditions.

Has too much been read into the exploits of Pytheas by later researchers? Probably. There appear to be conflicting quotes about the exact location of the grave of the sun. Was the statement meant to refer to refer to the far reaches of the Atlantic beyond Thule as interpreted by Cunliffe - or did he indeed venture east into the Baltic to Kaali?

We do know that Pytheas did indeed sail beyond the known world of his age. And we do know that Kaali was indeed a catastrophic event, only remembered in myth. Whether they have any connection, is probably imagination, but well worth the try.

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