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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)  (Read 7573 times)
Bianca
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« Reply #420 on: December 29, 2007, 10:57:27 am »





nekozuki

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   posted 04-06-2006 11:52 PM                       
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Funny how Egypt and India were there before the flood O_O it makes me wonder if the more spiritual places are the ones that survive. The countries that were corrupted are the ones that went down.

 
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« Reply #421 on: December 29, 2007, 10:58:21 am »





Desiree

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   posted 04-07-2006 12:06 AM                       
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I guess, by that logic, America is in big trouble if it ever happens again, then! 
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« Reply #422 on: December 29, 2007, 10:59:44 am »






Jaime Manuschevich

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Jaime I still don't see how you're coming to the conclusion that Atlantis is in Israel. Don't you think this would clearly be written in the Old Testament?
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 There's no science in your work, Jamie. You have to throw out nearly all the things that Plato was talking about to even try to make it work and even then, it's still a bad fit, but, believe what you want.
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As I understand it, you don't have any scientific credentials either, but apparently want people to take your word for it that Atlantis was Israel.

There's no science in your work, Jamie. You have to throw out nearly all the things that Plato was talking about to even try to make it work and even then, it's still a bad fit, but, believe what you want.

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Here we analyzed the theory of the Atlantic, not it mine.


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As for the Phoenicians never discovering America, well their coins have ended up in both there and the Azores, so of course they had been to both.
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Perhaps they did not discover it, but there are sufficient evidences of made commerce with America.


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This whole argument that the Egyptians didn't know of the Atlantic is getting a bit weak anyway. Not only do those two passages I printed provide historical documention for finding it, the peoples of the Mediterranean were already establishing colonies in western Spain and trading with Tartessus, which existed at about 1200 bc, another six hundred years before Solon first heard the Atlantis story.
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The commerce by the Mediterranean Sea made the Phoenicians, not Egyptian them.


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 The Egyptians knew their geography,
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You it has some proof of that?

Later I follow with the commentaries.... work...

 
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« Reply #423 on: December 29, 2007, 11:00:51 am »





Jaime Manuschevich

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The answers to your questions about my theory are in:

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001541&p=2

I imagine, you will have the courtesy to watch.
 
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« Reply #424 on: December 29, 2007, 11:01:51 am »








Desiree

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   posted 04-07-2006 11:53 PM                       
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Jamie, I've read your theory in full at least two times, and it's still unconvincing! I'd also like to add that the Bible is not a precise historical document and that no civilzation bears any resemblance to Plato's Atlantis!


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The Egyptians knew their geography,
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You it has some proof of that?
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Yep, sure do!

Both these voyages date hundreds of years before Herodotus, and even before Solon, for that matter. Proof that the Egyptians knew their geography much better than you give them credit for:


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The Phoenicians
Little is known of the origins of this group of traders, though their roots are in the eastern Mediterranean.


Driven by the desire to acquire new and more cost-effective sources of raw materials and to sell their products to markets other than in their homeland, the Phoenicians covered enormous distances. They were among the first to trace routes to the western Mediterranean and beyond the Pillars of Hercules (the Straits of Gibraltar) toward the Atlantic coasts of Africa and Europe.

At the end of the seventh century B.C., the Egyptian Pharaoh Necho II, who reigned c. 615-595 B.C.commissioned Phoenician sailors to sail around the continent of Africa. Accordingly, he commissioned a number of ships manned by Phoenicians for the task. These sailed down the Red Sea and down the east coast of Africa. Every year they settled for a while on the coast, cleared a strip of land, planted a crop and, when they had harvested it, continued on their journey. In the third year they sailed through the Pillars of Hercules and back to Egypt again. They reported that as they sailed around Africa they had the sun on their right.

This statement, which those early voyagers of the 7th century B.C. could not have made up, indicates that the Phoenician sailors did indeed circumnavigate the continent of Africa, well before any European.

Archaeologists have discovered that the Phoenicians used coastal and deep-water routes for both trade and voyages of discovery. Coastal sailors only sailed during the day, from one village to another, always keeping land in sight. Deep-water sailors took routes farther away from the coastline but still kept sight of land.
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http://www.encyclopedia.mu/History/Phoenicians.htm


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Hanno's 'Periplus'
The Voyage of Hanno, King of the Carthaginians, to the Libyan regions of the earth, beyond the Pillars of Heracles... These are the opening words of the Periplus of Hanno, a Greek translation of a Punic inscription on a bronze plaque that Hanno dedicated in theTemple of Chronos (Baal Hammon) at Carthage.1 In this document the shophet Hanno relates how, in the first half of the sixth century BC, he conducted an expedition that brought new colonists to four Carthaginian settlements established where the chain of the Atlas reaches the Atlantic and then, having founded a new colony at the Tropic, proceeded from there to explore the coast of Africa as far as the Equator.

The eighteen lines of Hanno's artless account of his journey along the west coast of Africa are a unique document. It is the only known first-hand report on these regions before those of the Portuguese, which were written two thousand years later. It is the longest known text by a Phoenician author. Besides, Hanno has a fascinating story to tell: He then describes his various stops along the way and his interaction with the natives. stories of men that can run faster than horses, we visit a mysterious island, have to fight hostile natives, encountered crocodiles and water horses (hippopotami), survive an erupting volcano and encounter gorillas. They then Probably, Hanno made his voyage on the outer sea in the first half of the sixth century BC.
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http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/hanno-voyage.htm


Point is, the Egyptian Pharaoh Necho II, who reigned c. 615-595 B.C (dying twenty-five years before Solon was said to even have heard the story) had the Phoenicians sail around Africa, both through the Red Sea, around Africa, and back through the Pillars of Hercules again. Meaning, since the Atlantis story originated with the Egyptians and they had a good grasp of their geography, they would have not have been mistaken. Sorry, but that looks to me like a major blow towards your theory, and once again, pretty much vindication for the idea that the Egyptians knew their oceans. 
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« Reply #425 on: December 29, 2007, 11:02:52 am »






nekozuki

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   posted 04-08-2006 12:07 AM                       
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Yep they could sail and trade but they didn't know their geography, makes a lot of sense Jaime.

 
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« Reply #426 on: December 29, 2007, 11:03:48 am »

docyabut
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And if you notice the story of Atlantis was recording in Egyptian history 600bc ,the time Tartesso disappears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos 
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« Reply #427 on: December 29, 2007, 11:04:41 am »

Jaime Manuschevich

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It is not necessary to confuse the things. That to the Phoenicians and Carthaginians knew to it, does not mean that the Egyptians knew to it. The routes of Phoenicians were controlled so well that still we do not know all, like the route to America.

A subject which it is tremendously surprising about the route to America is that as much the Tartesian as Olmecas is destroyed or disappears in same periodo.(600 BC) Olmecas was a great civilization and was annihilated by a very superior force. My conclusion is that it was annihilated by the fleet of Imilkon in his assumption travels by Africa. There are registries of the complete fleet of Imilkon in Norteamerica (Virginia). This epic battle is the fight of Quetzacoatl and Tezcatlipoca in the American legend. (Page 258-262 of my book)

With the destruction of both culture to both sides of the ocean, only Carthage would control and know the routes to America.

 
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« Reply #428 on: December 29, 2007, 11:05:41 am »

Jaime Manuschevich

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Desiree:


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 Jamie, I've read your theory in full at least two times, and it's still unconvincing! I'd also like to add that the Bible is not a precise historical document and that no civilzation bears any resemblance to Plato's Atlantis!
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Interesting watched... You accept as true a myth -Atlantis- and do not accept like true other, Bible.

Why?

I see that you have not had the gentility of Nekosuki to make the debate of Atlantis in Israel in the respective site...

 
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« Reply #429 on: December 29, 2007, 11:07:14 am »








Desiree

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   posted 04-08-2006 01:43 PM                       
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Because the Bible has some fantastic stories in them that were probably even meant at the time to be

allegorical. Plato makes a point to say that the Atlantis story is fact.


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It is not necessary to confuse the things. That to the Phoenicians and Carthaginians knew to it, does not mean that the Egyptians knew to it. The routes of Phoenicians were controlled so well that still we do not know all, like the route to America.
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Jamie, maybe you missed this part I printed three times now..?


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At the end of the seventh century B.C., the Egyptian Pharaoh Necho II, who reigned c. 615-595 B.C.commissioned Phoenician sailors to sail around the continent of Africa. Accordingly, he commissioned a number of ships manned by Phoenicians for the task. These sailed down the Red Sea and down the east coast of Africa. Every year they settled for a while on the coast, cleared a strip of land, planted a crop and, when they had harvested it, continued on their journey. In the third year they sailed through the Pillars of Hercules and back to Egypt again. They reported that as they sailed around Africa they had the sun on their right.
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Documented proof that the Egyptians knew their geography, knowing both where the Red Sea, the Atlantic Ocean and the Pillars of Hercules were. And it happened centuries before Plato even wrote of Atlantis! Stop ignoring it and just deal with it. 
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« Reply #430 on: December 29, 2007, 11:08:11 am »






Desiree

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   posted 04-08-2006 01:45 PM                       
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Originally posted by docyabut:
And if you notice the story of Atlantis was recording in Egyptian history 600bc ,the time Tartesso disappears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos
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Docyabut, have you ever run across the exact year Tartessus was founded?
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« Reply #431 on: December 29, 2007, 11:09:02 am »

Jaime Manuschevich

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Originally posted by Desiree:

Because the Bible has some fantastic stories in them that were probably even meant at the time to be allegorical. Plato makes a point to say that the Atlantis story is fact.
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Your opinion is funny. And a God that has children with one a mortal not is it? Or a God that makes rings in the Earth? Or Gods that meeting in a room for to decide a punishment to the men either? There are its not fantastic stories? There are its a facts, are its not allegorical?


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Jamie, maybe you missed this part I printed three times now..?
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At the end of the seventh century B.C., the Egyptian Pharaoh Necho II, who reigned c. 615-595 B.C. commissioned Phoenician sailors to sail around the continent of Africa. Accordingly, he commissioned a number of ships manned by Phoenicians for the task. These sailed down the Red Sea and down the east coast of Africa. Every year they settled for a while on the coast, cleared a strip of land, planted a crop and, when they had harvested it, continued on their journey. In the third year they sailed through the Pillars of Hercules and back to Egypt again. They reported that as they sailed around Africa they had the sun on their right.
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I have also said three times to you that are not the same the information into the hands of those who the things did - Phoenician - that the information of those who contracted the service, the Egyptians. The fact that a Brazilian astronaut trip with the Russians or Americans to the space does not mean that the Brazilians have the information and technology of the Americans or Russians to travel to the space, even though the Brazilians feel very proud for that reason.


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Documented proof that the Egyptians knew their geography, knowing both where the Red Sea, the Atlantic Ocean and the Pillars of Hercules were. And it happened centuries before Plato even wrote of Atlantis! Stop ignoring it and just deal with it.
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Another confusion. Although they had passed almost two hundred of years of when Plato wrote on Atlantis, but had passed such less than 40 years since Solon wrote on subject. And they did not speak either of the "Atlantic Ocean". For them, it was simply the region beyond of Libya.

[ 04-08-2006, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Jaime Manuschevich ]

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« Reply #432 on: December 29, 2007, 11:10:11 am »

docyabut
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Desiree, some say 1000 bc, however it could have been a mixture of two cultures VNSP and Los Millares.

http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=ancient_iberia 
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« Reply #433 on: December 29, 2007, 11:11:12 am »

docyabut
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Desiree, this is what I think that the Atlantis story came from Tartesso`s disappearence in 600 bc and like we know some cultures would wreave into their own history another`s cultures tale such as in the flood stories. Deucalion's parallels with Noah and with Utnapishtim. We know from history that when one tribe in ancient Greece found dino bones, thought they must be gods named them and reburied them with ceremony.Another tribe hearing of this went out to find bones, named them their names and did the same. 
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« Reply #434 on: December 29, 2007, 11:12:11 am »

docyabut
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http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/dinosaurs.htm 
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