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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)  (Read 7573 times)
Bianca
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« Reply #360 on: December 28, 2007, 04:46:22 pm »








docyabut
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If it refers to the Cayce readings as so many have gone on to, its the history of the world in altas, mankind`s history of holding up the land, seas and the oceans. 
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« Reply #361 on: December 28, 2007, 04:47:15 pm »








Boreasi

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   posted 03-31-2006 09:58 PM                       
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Docky.
"When you talk of Atlantis a hero God, its only refers to the mediterranean"

Where did you read this?! 
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« Reply #362 on: December 28, 2007, 04:48:17 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 04-01-2006 12:01 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Boreasi:
Des,

Which institutes have contributed in this research? Links?

Lets have the real deal...
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Why the attention to detail, are you using it to write a book or report or something? 
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« Reply #363 on: December 28, 2007, 04:49:33 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 04-01-2006 12:05 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by docyabut:
Big deal! we all know there was a mixture of homo sapians that migated to the Americas, however thats not what the story of Atlantis was really all about.
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Fer sure, it is a big deal, Docyabut! Plato mentions the islands as "stepping stones to the opposite continent."

The DNA proves, once and for all, that the opposite continent was America. 
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« Reply #364 on: December 28, 2007, 04:50:31 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 04-01-2006 12:11 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Thank you Des, there is a certain connection to the Clovis and Solutrean.
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I'll say! We can add them both to the descendents of Atlantis! How did you first hear about the DNA, by the way, Neko? 
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« Reply #365 on: December 28, 2007, 04:51:37 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 04-01-2006 12:13 AM                       
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mtDNA haplogroup X: An ancient link between Europe/Western Asia and North America?

Brown MD, Hosseini SH, Torroni A, Bandelt HJ, Allen JC, Schurr TG, Scozzari R, Cruciani F, Wallace DC.

Center for Molecular Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA, USA. mdbrown@gmm.gen.emory.edu

On the basis of comprehensive RFLP analysis, it has been inferred that approximately 97% of Native American mtDNAs belong to one of four major founding mtDNA lineages, designated haplogroups "A"-"D." It has been proposed that a fifth mtDNA haplogroup (haplogroup X) represents a minor founding lineage in Native Americans. Unlike haplogroups A-D, haplogroup X is also found at low frequencies in modern European populations. To investigate the origins, diversity, and continental relationships of this haplogroup, we performed mtDNA high-resolution RFLP and complete control region (CR) sequence analysis on 22 putative Native American haplogroup X and 14 putative European haplogroup X mtDNAs. The results identified a consensus haplogroup X motif that characterizes our European and Native American samples. Among Native Americans, haplogroup X appears to be essentially restricted to northern Amerindian groups, including the Ojibwa, the Nuu-Chah-Nulth, the Sioux, and the Yakima, although we also observed this haplogroup in the Na-Dene-speaking Navajo. Median network analysis indicated that European and Native American haplogroup X mtDNAs, although distinct, nevertheless are distantly related to each other. Time estimates for the arrival of X in North America are 12,000-36,000 years ago, depending on the number of assumed founders, thus supporting the conclusion that the peoples harboring haplogroup X were among the original founders of Native American populations. To date, haplogroup X has not been unambiguously identified in Asia, raising the possibility that some Native American founders were of Caucasian ancestry.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Citation&list_uids=99057522

Wow, the founders of the original Native American populations were from Atlantis!
















« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 07:18:20 am by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #366 on: December 29, 2007, 07:19:50 am »








nekozuki

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   posted 04-01-2006 08:16 AM                       
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quote:
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Originally posted by Desiree:

quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Thank you Des, there is a certain connection to the Clovis and Solutrean.
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I'll say! We can add them both to the descendents of Atlantis! How did you first hear about the DNA, by the way, Neko?
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Atlantis books, History Channel, Discovery Channel, TIME magazine had something on it.



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« Reply #367 on: December 29, 2007, 07:21:11 am »








Jaime Manuschevich

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There is not an Earth place does not have islands and a continent to the front... The text says near, a border continent..., not to thousands of kilometres...


quote:
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 Big deal! we all know there was a mixture of homo sapiens that migrated to the Americas, however that not what the story of Atlantis was really all about.
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Very correct affirmation... A more specific analysis is required and here I put one, extracted of my book, that in addition it treats, although only superficially, the possible connection between Clovis in America and Solutrean, in Europe. (Page 211-213). Sorry for my not professional translate.


quote:
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“Before the arrival of our colonizer, the primitive form of human life in the continent was made up of two groups or cultural horizons. One of them was made up of bands that were constituted by a familiar nucleus "that moved through extensive territories in search of animals. First `hunters” lacked appropriate elements to give death by their own means to the Pleistocene mega-fauna; they took advantage of the occasions in which muds or marshes fell in to attack them and to carve up them in the same site. Other times the bands united their efforts to hunt in indirect form, is to say, using the weapon more formidable than the humanity has known: the fire. They caused explosions towards precipices or steep in whose bottom groups of hunters they finished giving death severely wounded to the animals ". These human groups only had very coarse instruments, they did not have projectiles with stone end in general and they extended throughout all the continent: from the region of Taumalipas and Tehuacán in Mexico; happening through Taima-Taima, Mauco and Camaré in Venezuela; Garzón in Colombia; Piki-machay and Chivatero in Peru; Viscachani in Bolivia; finalizing in Gatchi and Tagua-Tagua in Chile. These small human groups were temporarily located in form attempt from the 36,000 to the 4,000 before the Common Era, composed surely by the first human migrations from Asia to the American continent.

The second horizon, composed more modern groups of Hunters of Great Prey, that had a new technological advance: projectiles with stone speardhead. These American speardhead of projectile have been classified and stratified like the Level one, seemed to the Clovis European, with notch or partial channel and of 7 to 12 cm; soon the channelled and smaller Folsom and finally the Plane, where it appears a great diversity of speardhead for a hunting very specialized, with ends of different forms and sizes. This second group of hunters of great prey was based in places like Texas, in present the U.S.A., the Mountain range of Tamaulipas or Mountain range Eastern Mother, in Mexico; in the Jobo in Venezuela; in the Inga in Ecuador; in Viscachani II in Bolivia; in Chivatero II and Lauricocha in Peru; in Ayampitim in Argentina and the caves Fell and Palli Aike in the South end of Chile. The earliest presence of the great hunters with stone end has been detected around the 9,500 before the era common in the establishment of the Level one; the second phase - hard Folsom- between the 7,000 A.E.C. and the 6,500 A.E.C. and the phase the Plane also begins towards the 7.000. Next to this last cultural horizon "have been mortars and hands to grind, which would demonstrate a greater dependency of vegetal foods". (Note: They are not peoples of Atlantis and is perfectly possible they come to Europe)

As of sixth millennium before the Common Era the presence of the brand-new colonizer farmer with new technologies was caught in several places of the New Continent, as much in the north as in the central zone and the South cone of America, in form synchronizes. (Note: the same time of foundations the classic civilisations)

The investigation indicates the following thing to us for the North hemisphere of the American continent: "the evolution of collectors and incipient agriculturists in Mesoamerica, clearly has been delineated by Mac Neish (1958,1964), in already indicated sequences of Tamaulipas and Tehuacán. They adjust to the registers, better studied of the North American Cultures of the Desert. Under that name a series is known traditions that were developed in the average North American west, the south of Texas and part of the North of Mexico (Jennings, 1968). Such scene suffered, with greater intensity, the dryness caused by Antitermal; there was vegetable drying and diminution of fauna. The stations determined a division of the economic activities; in the dry periods they crossed enormous distances in search of animals whereas in the humid periods they collected vegetables and smaller fauna. Socially they were grouped in micro and macroban, respectively (Mac Neish, 1964); this last they had to conform the utilitarian baggage that reflects those workings. The cultures of the desert were responsible, in addition, for the definitive domestication of certain vegetal species as they testify the rest of maize of Bat Cave (New Mexico) that, with an age considered between 4,000 and 3,000 B.C., is oldest of North America (Willey, 1966)." (…)

This simultaneous installation takes place in several places of the North hemisphere, aside from already indicated in South Cone: in "Ocampo (C14 5,230 + _ 350 and 5,650 + - 350 B.C.)... of the Mountain Sierra Madre, along with Walnuts (5,000-3000 B.C.)... of the Mountain range of Tamaulipas ", in the Irrigation (5,200 A.E.C.) in Tehuacán and Coxcatlán (5,200 A.E.C.). This new human group not only brings the new techniques of cultures; also it brings new techniques of hunting: "Traps, lances, darts, arc and arrow, bows", tools that were of habitual use of the culture Atlantis. From its establishment in the American continent, - that from "the moment of the first invasion... to a date near the 7,000 B.C. the evolutionary development of the culture experienced little modifications" - the expansion of new seeds, its transfer from a point to the other and the food production lived a strong expansion. In Tehuacán (7.000-5.200) "the pumpkin (mixed Cucurbita), red pepper and evocates and, possibly, the maize and cotton knew... Coxcatlán (5.300-3.400 B.C.)... a greater variety of vegetables: wild maize, red pepper, evocates, pumpkins, amaranth, frijoles and zapotes ".

In Peru, in the neighbourhoods of present Lima, "the best evidences they come from the central coast, in special of the area delimited by the Chillón river and the bay of Cove to the south. Towards the 5,000 B.C., in the mouth of the Lurín river, already existed a sedentary population whose inhabitants operated seasonal permanent resources, through the use of marine, fluvial and inner micro atmospheres (Patterson, 1971; Moseley, 1975). The hills provided to them with vegetables, between which apparently they had domesticated the pumpkins and, in winter, auquenids proteins derived from the hunting from that lowered pasture in them."

The connection between these different establishments is left in evidence when analyzing the type of cultivated vegetables. In the phase Enchantment, of this last establishment (3,700 B.C.E.), there is also "pumpkins, cotton, guavas, frijoles and red pepper", of which it takes control evident at least that ", Mesoamerica and Peru had to be the centre of origin of certain cultivated species. To them one adds the South American tropical region (Amazons and Orinoco) and the valley of the Mississippi in North America. In the forests of the Orinoco and the Amazon it seems to be the centre of the tubercle culture and peanut... The zone of the Mississippi only contributed the culture of the sunflower... The great majority of the species had, because to domesticate itself in Mexico-Guatemala or Peru-Bolivia, centres primary for some species, that as it demonstrates Heisser (1965), that interchanged in a process of similar diffusion to the cultural one. Among them most important it was the maize, still bases of the indigenous diet... In Tehuacán the excavations of caves [ forms classic of storage of our known natufians] pertaining to the phases the Irrigation, Coxcatlan, Purrón, etc., threw 23,607 rest of maize, 12,857 of which spindleful was almost complete. Oldest they were located in levels that fluctuate back between 7,200 and 5,400 years (5.200-3.400 B.C). They have a length between 19 and 25 centimetres, contain eight grain rows with 36 or 72 seeds. They had pistil and worsted. Mangelsdorf (1964) considers them like true wild species of the successive maize that disappeared to traverse hybridizations with a cultivated species, teosinte. There is the origin of the types Chapalote and Nal-Tel." In Peru, "the earliest maize units (3,000 B.C.) natufian comes from the cave [ again ] Rosamachay. In the coast it appears later. In regard to it an independent domestication for this area is postulated, thesis that could not have been verified due to the absences of rest of even wild species... The previous thing demonstrates that the maize was domesticated in some place of Mesoamerica, from where it was taken to the north and to the south ". In a set of other vegetables this same interchange between hemispheres of the continent is demonstrated both during the denominated period archaic: pumpkin, beans, tomatoes, cacao, tobacco, Popes, yucca, oca, añu, achira, among other vegetables, aside from already indicated and to the banana, outstanding by Donnelly, whose origin is not sure as we saw in the beginning of the chapter.

The American cotton also has been source of a not cleared scientific controversy officially until today: "the appearance of the cotton (Gossypium) cultivated in the North coast and centre... has waked up great discussions around its possible origin. During long time that barbalense the Gossypium species was the result of a crossing with an Asian species... Lathrap (1970) assigns to him, on the contrary, an Amazonian origin ", in as much other investigators they assign a strictly Peruvian origin to him, by found" form wild or apparently wild, of the species are only in the Peruvian coast, the region of Guayas and the Galapagos islands. The barbalense G. belongs to the brasiliense variety, genetically diverse to the Peruvian ". But to the light of new antecedents, the presence of chromosomes of cotton cultivated in the Mediterranean has been confirmed through the genetic investigation, that was combined with local cotton, generating a new variety, composed by 56 chromosomes, 26 small ones of American origin and 26 greater specifically Mediterranean, which is within the framework of the possible thing, since the first civilization had technological capacity to hybridizing diverse vegetal species, since it has been possible to demonstrate with the wheat, the barley and the maize”.
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« Reply #368 on: December 29, 2007, 07:22:48 am »








Jaime Manuschevich

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Let us see what Plato says about the Atlantic sea of the myth and its relation with the present Atlantic Ocean.


quote:
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“For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent. (…).

“But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island."
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In the Atlantic Ocean there is nothing is looked like which here this writing:

a) The ocean in which it not possible to sailing.
b) A mud barrier.
c) A narrow entrance to a single port.
d) An island in front of a Strait.
e) A close opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean

Nothing agrees.

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« Reply #369 on: December 29, 2007, 07:24:06 am »








docyabut
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For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent


and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;

600bc
The Egyptian Pharaoh Necho of Sais commissioned Semitic-Phoenician mariners to voyage round Africa. Three years later they returned to report that the continent is surrounded by sea except at the point in Egypt where it joins Asia.

The Egyptians in 600 B.C. recorded the existence of Atlantis. This alleged myth was passed down through Solon to Plato who recorded it in 400 B.C. An epochal flood is believed to have swallowed up Atlantis.

The egyptians only knew of a continent that surrounded the true ocean in 600 bc 
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« Reply #370 on: December 29, 2007, 07:25:05 am »








Jaime Manuschevich

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quote:
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The egyptians only knew of a continent that surrounded the true ocean in 600 bc
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The Egyptians already sailed around Arabia, that is the continent to which the myth talks about, long time before. To see

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000552
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« Reply #371 on: December 29, 2007, 07:26:19 am »








Desiree

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   posted 04-03-2006 12:43 AM                       
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quote:
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In the Atlantic Ocean there is nothing is looked like which here this writing:

a) The ocean in which it not possible to sailing.
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Legends the Phoenecians used to say about the Atlantic Ocean to curtail competition for trade there, it's in all the ancient histories that refer to the Atlantic.


quote:
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b) A mud barrier.
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There's one outside Gibraltar, one by Morocco (per Herr Saltzman) and the Sargasso Sea.


quote:
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c) A narrow entrance to a single port.
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It doesn't say that, it reads:

for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

Which would make it Gibraltar.



quote:
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d) An island in front of a Strait.
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And if it were found, Atlantis would be found already, wouldn't it?


quote:
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A close opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean
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It doesn't say close, it says:

but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.



quote:
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The Egyptians already sailed around Arabia, that is the continent to which the myth talks about, long time before.
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Nope, they sailed around Africa towards the Straits even before Solon received the tale. you must have heard of this.
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« Reply #372 on: December 29, 2007, 07:27:35 am »




docyabut
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My guess- The phoecians sailers the king sent came back and reported ( for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea,(the Guadalquiver) and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent) 
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« Reply #373 on: December 29, 2007, 07:28:55 am »








Jaime Manuschevich

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quote:
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Legends the Phoenecians used to say about the Atlantic Ocean to curtail competition for trade there, it's in all the ancient histories that refer to the Atlantic.
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That are legends, its are not solid and concrete geologic data.


quote:
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There's one outside Gibraltar, one by Morocco (per Herr Saltzman) and the Sargasso Sea.
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The Sargasso Sea is not mud and by both points it is possible to be sailed. The myth is specific. It is not possible to be sailed in this sea.


quote:
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Which would make it Gibraltar.
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Its length is of 14.4 km in its narrower part, between End of Oliveros (Spain) and End Cires (Morocco), and the depth in the middle of the Straits is of 1.4 km. 14.4 kilometers are not indeed narrow for ships that they did not have more than 10 meters wide. There is no port in his interior and the myth says nowhere that to the other side there was a great sea.


quote:
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It doesn't say close, it says:

but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
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The complete paragraph is this one:


quote:
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 Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles(1); the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
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Here one talks about to two different seas, a small and disappear, where it was the port after a narrow entrance, and another great and existing one, that surrounded to another territory that was so great that it could be called continent.


quote:
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And if it were found, Atlantis would be found already, wouldn't it?
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Without a doubt, but in the Atlantic there is no a sunk island. The last one sank 5 million ago years. Although nowhere it says that that was the island that sank...


quote:
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Nope, they sailed around Africa towards the Straits even before Solon received the tale. you must have heard of this.
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If the opposed continent is Africa, by the text it says that... “truly called a boundless continent”. Nobody would doubt it that it is it. And, why it does not say it specifically?

If it is America... The Egyptians of the time of their size knew..?

(1) The Egyptians do not commit themselves with the name that the Greeks give him.
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« Reply #374 on: December 29, 2007, 07:30:26 am »








Tom Hebert1
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  posted 04-03-2006 04:49 PM                       
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I believe the Sargasso Sea is one possibility of what Plato was talking about. Perhaps we will never know.

Cayce said that what is now known as the Sargasso Sea was the site of the first destruction of Atlantis.

Also, why do eels from both Europe and America spawn in the Sargasso Sea? Interesting, to say the least.
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