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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Bianca
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« Reply #285 on: December 28, 2007, 02:06:34 pm »








Boreasi

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   posted 03-17-2006 08:47 PM                       
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"Admiral of The Ocean Sea
and Vice-King of The Indies"

The following is an attempt to describe one of the darkest periods in human history, when the last unbroken cultures of Atlantean descent was invaded and destroyed. The cause of this destruction is inevitably linked to the disintegrated Mediterranean culture of the Middle-Ages, were aggression, warfare and tyranny had ransacked every nation - and almost all the monuments, treasures and assets of Eurasian antiquity. Not to mention the social tranquillity and ethics, allowing political tyrants to eradicate the former richness of philosophy, science and art.

With no more treasures to raid the mercenary armies were getting hungry - and their superiors weary. By the beginning of the 15th century poverty was widespread and even the Vatican Church on the fringe of bankruptcy. Until new weapons and new ships opened the possibility to cross the "Ocean Sea" and attend to the vast continent of the untouched treasures of the "Land of Fortune", far across the "over threw”. Thus the misfortune of man sank the last monumental cultures – and memories - of the Atlanteans.

"The Way"

The first description of America known in the Latin world was communicated already 997, when the local earl Leif Eriksson was sent home to Vinland (Virginia), with two priests aboard. In 1152 the Archbishop of Nidaros (Trondheim) could send his first bishop to Gardar, to substitute the old Duke of Greenland, whose reign included "all the lands to the west". By this achievement the Archbishop in Trondheim became the richest within the entire Vatican Church, and in 1154 the archbishop Nicholas Breakspeare became Pope Hadrian IV.

In 1184 a new Bishop is appointed to Greenland, and his name is moulded into new silver-coins. In 1987 one of them was found - by archaeologists - in Virginia...

The first description of America - found outside of the Vatican writers - was made by the French writer Philippe de Mezières. In 1360 he became chancellor of King Peter, of Cyprus and Jerusalem and a few years later he started collecting geographical and political information about the northern countries. In his second book, "Le songe du vieil pelerin", published in Paris 1389 - he describes Denmark, Sweden and then;

"The king of Norway had an enormous kingdom. A part of it were an island in the ocean, so far from Norway and Greenland that some ships sent there to collect taxes for the king's subjects took three years on the voyage, back and forth".

At the time of Mezières the Scandinavian countries have just been through their hardest time in history where the climatic catastrophe and the plague (“Black Death”) had eradicated 3/4 of the population. A similar catastrophe was hitting the Norse colonies in Greenland and New Foundland too, which made the yearly trade across the Atlantic very small, compared to the former centuries. Still, Mezières’ documentation tells of the exact voyage of the Norse king, who had the duty, according to the Royal Laws of 1156, to support his subjects on Greenland with minimum “Three Ships” every year.

Following the coastlines down to Florida and Cuba, the Norse sailors could follow the Gulf-stream back to Ireland, where they harboured in today’s Dublin, or the Isle of Man. Both these areas are known to have been subject to the King of Norway, already before the year 800. Today the reason for the Norse colonies in the Irish Sea becomes clear; they were needed as harbours on the way back from “Vinland” and “Landit Goa” - before crossing the Norwegian Sea and retuning to their capitol of Trondheim.

The recent discoveries – of Norse settlements in Camden, Illinois – dating back 5.200 years ago, finally tells us that there was a “North Atlantic Trade Organisation” - trading across and around the Arlantic ocean for more than 5.000 years.

Northern crusades - White slaves

Later the northern crusades starts and finally the Vatican mercenaries is able to conquer all of Scandinavia and Norway (1030). But not before 1152 is the catholics able to effectively collect “tithe” from the trade in “arctic treasuries” across the Atlantic ocean.

In the following centuries the North Europeans got incresingly enslaved. During the 14th and 15th century the need for new assets became imminent and they start outrigth looting of the northern areas. In the process the entire population of the "pagan areas" west of Greenland get caugth and sold for slaves. The Portugues even gratify these people for their working skills and capasity, getting better prices. Thus they start calling the entire area to the west "Labradores" - a name still used on a part of this coast...

By 1470 they eradicated the last Norse peoples on Greenland - and the entire area to the west was "transfered" from the Norwegian court and "given" to the Portuguese. Thus the way west was cleared and a few years later the catholic Spain equipped yet another teaam of professional pirates, led by Columbus - starting the conquest of America.

In 1502 the famous "Threaty of Tordeseillas" get signed, where the Pope divides the entire western continent in two - along a line from Santiago in the south to Compostella (Mexico) in the north. Portugal gets the western area, while Spain gets the western parts. The city where the threaty get signed is renamed "Santiago de Compostella", which later becomes a "place of worship and pilgrimage", - where all good catholics could come to admire the newfound wealth. Some of it is still on exibition in the "miracleous cathedral", whic still is the most famous place of pilgrimage outside of Rome itself...(!)

Pope Urbans Map

In 1361-66 King Magnus Eriksson of Sweden-Norway sent an expedition to "Vinland". A few months after their return - in a letter of January 27th, 1365 - Pope Urban thanked the king for receiving his chaplain Halstanus. In 1367 the brothers Pizzigano of Venice drew a map where the name "Antillia" was given to an island far out in the Atlantic, on the exact latitude of Delaware Peninsula, at the inlet of Chesapeake Bay. This map is still existing - kept at the University of Parma.

In 1436 Andrea Bianco of Ancona made a famous copy of this map that was called "Pope Urbans Map". According to Columbus diary he owes one of the 20 copies that were known to exist in his time. The map starts at the eastern tip of today’s Newfoundland, which it calls "Isola de Ventura". Then southwards is following "Saxa", which the Norse called "Helluland". Both names refer to "stone", describing the rocky coasts of Cape Brenton...

Southwards the map draws the areas of today’s Nova Scotia, Virginia, Georgia and Florida - in their exact positions. The Venetian named them - respectively; "Salugia", "Antilia" and "Balmar".

Their semantic invective of these and other names on Urbans Map relates directly to the old Norse names - of the exact same areas - known from the Icelandic Sagas of 1260-90. Noteworthy is that Antillean ("The Foremost") was also called the "Land of The Seven Cities" - believed to be "immensely rich". The most important being "Cua" - that was said to be a kingdom by it self. The name derived from the Norse name "Landit Goa" (the good land), that the Portuguese later translated to "Terra Cuba".

The latitude of Chesapeake Bay is correctly noted on 36'-54'', straight opposite the Strait of Gibraltar.

The Land of Fortune

Which is a bit funny, since Bianco draws another map in 1448, based on a geographical description of the "islands in the west" called "Inventio Fortunatae" (The Fortunate Land), where two floating islands are described as "at latitude of the Cap Verde Isles" (18 degrees north). On his new map Bianco made the following note; "Authentic Islands, 1500 miles to the west", which is a fairly accurate estimate of the actual distance to Central America.

Columbus son Fernando later wrote that the book "Inventio Fortunatae", own by his father, contained astonishing information about the land in the west. A few months before his father sailed off the German-Portuguese geographer Martin Behaim made the worlds first known globe, called the "Columbus Globe", where he referred to America as "Inventio Fortunate", covering the entire east coast of North America.

The book "Inventio Fortunate" was probably written by the astronomer and mathematician Nicolas of Lynne, around the middle of the 14th century. Based on the descriptions from the "Vinland Saga", "Historia Norvegica" and other Norse descriptions he visited Greenland and the lands to the west - where he describes meeting Eskimos, in the hunting fields of northern Canada.

After Halstans visit at the Swedish court in 1365, receiving a fortune in walrus tusks from Baffin Island, the Vatican Library had no doubt about neither the wealth, nor the latitudes and longitudes of the "Fortunate Islands" in the west.

The Kensington Rune Stone

Beside trade and taxation of the Norse settlements in America the expedition of King Magnus was given the mission to investigate the area for "lost communities" and communities that "had fallen away from the good faith". Travelling through the Mississippi River-system, from the north, they encountered some outright hostility - where 14 of their people got killed.

Their peers raised the memory-stone, that later got known as the Kensington Rune Stone, dated "1365 A;D:"

"550 West of Thule" (Greenland)

When Columbus sailed out of Bristol, with the trader/shipper John Dee in 1477, he was just out to check the co-ordinates of Pope Urbans Map. They passed by Iceland, before turning west. In his diary he noted that they reached the "main islands", 550 km west of Thule (Greenland).

The Financers

In the middle of the 15th century there were no more treasures to find in northern Europe and Asia. Thus, the Vatican Church was basically broke - and new sources of income were desperately needed. To keep the Vatican control of the Mediterranean areas the pontiffs had to use their personal accounts, and time was running out...

Thus the maps to the "Fortunate Land" in the west came in VERY handy. The prospects of a vast continent of brand new markets to raid, had already made the Venetians families - running the Vatican - initiate and finance Columbus' final investigations about a possible en route - across the "Ocean Sea". When returning from his "secret voyage" to Bristol, Iceland/Feroe Islands, Newfoundland
- they already promised half of the financing to well trans Columbus' pilot-project - creating a sea-route straight a cross the Atlantic.

"By The Will of God"

Financially broke from the Granada campaign, the Spanish monarchs had to use their personal accounts to support the enterprise. Moreover; Columbus was to be made "Admiral of the Ocean Sea", and granted an inheritable title as "Vice-King of The Indies", including all the new territories he would reach. Finally he was granted a portion of all profits.

After 29 days out of sight of land, on 7 October 1492 as recorded in the ship's log, the crew spotted shore birds flying west and changed direction to make their landfall.

The Indians

Journaled by the logger of "Pinta", Rodrigo de Triana; Columbus claimed possession of the New World Land on the 12th of October, on the island he called San Salvador. The logger anyhow added that the natives already had a name on their island, called "Guana-hani". Further he described the Native Americans (Taíno or Arawak)to be "peaceful and friendly". de Triana wrote with such awe of the friendly innocence and beauty of these Indians that he inadvertently created the enduring myth of the "Noble Savage";
"These people have no religious beliefs, nor are they idolaters. They are very gentle and do not know what evil is; nor do they kill others, nor steal; and they are without weapons.".

Second Voyage

Before he left Spain for his second voyage, he had been directed by Ferdinand and Isabella to maintain friendly, even loving relations with the natives. However, Columbus took 1600 Arawak as slaves. 560 slaves were shipped to Spain; two hundred died en route, probably of disease, and of the remainder, half were ill when they arrived. After legal proceedings, the survivors were released and ordered to be shipped home. Others of the 1600 were kept as slaves for Columbus' men in the Americas, and Columbus recorded using slaves for sex in his journal. A remaining 400 captives, for whom Columbus had no use, were released; they fled into the hills, making, according to Columbus, prospects for their future capture dim.

Massacres and Enslavement

Rounding up the slaves led to the first battle between the Spanish and the Indians in the New World. There is no evidence of any previous trans-Atlantic voyages that transported slaves for sale. In fact Columbus was the first European to massacre the natives and to transport slaves across the Atlantic. Thus he the founded the later genocides, as well as the slave trade - in which millions of Indians were enslaved. Later millions of Africans were transported westward across the Atlantic as slaves in the atrocity of the Middle Passage.

Greed and Disgrace

The main objective of Columbus' journey had been gold. To further this goal, he imposed a system on the natives in Cicao on Haiti, whereby all those above fourteen years of age had to find a certain quota of gold, to be signified by a token placed around their necks. Those who failed to reach their quota would have their hands chopped off. Despite such extreme measures, Columbus did not manage to obtain much gold. One of the primary reasons for this was the fact that natives became infected with various diseases carried by the Europeans.

In his letters to the Spanish King and Queen, Columbus would repeatedly suggest slavery as a way to profit from the new colonies.

Columbus - the hero

Columbus' tomb in the cathedral of Seville is borne by four statues of kings representing the Kingdoms of Castile, Leon, Aragon, and Navarre, who all grew immensely rich by his "initiatives". Traditionally, Columbus is viewed as a man of heroic stature by Americans subject to Euro-centric public school and Columbus-glorifying textbooks. He has often been hailed as a man of heroism and bravery, and also of faith: he sailed westward into mostly unknown waters, and his unique scheme is often viewed as ingenious. He "set an example for us all by showing what monumental feats can be accomplished through perseverance and faith" (George Bush, June 8, 1989).

Columbus - the brute

Criticism focuses on the continuing positive Columbus myths and celebrations (such as Columbus Day) and their effects on American thought towards present-day Native Americans. Official celebrations of the 500th anniversary of Columbus' first voyage in 1492 were muted, and demonstrators protested marking the anniversary at all. It was in this spirit that Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez signed, in October, 2002, a decree changing the name of Venezuela's "Columbus Day" to "The Day of Indigenous Resistance" in honour of the nation's indigenous groups.

On October 12, 2004, supporters of Chávez destroyed a 100-year old statue of Columbus in Caracas. They did this because they found Columbus guilty of 'imperialist genocide'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day
http://www.answers.com/topic/christopher-columbus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Colombus

A Row of Genocides

What later happened - as the Vatican tripod of Venice, Spain and Portugal got to organise their troopers of Conquistadors - made the "Fortunate Islands" into a land of horror and slaughter-houses.

An ongoing and consistent row of annual armadas with conquistadors, led by "ingenious warlords" and canonièrs, - produced a row of genocides that not even the mass-destructions of WWII can match.

Decimating the Amerindian population from 100 millions to less than 10 millions it's the greatest genocide known to history. Completely eradicating their treasures, forbidding their history, draining their knowledge and crushing their monuments, made a complete cultural devastation that the indigenous Americans haven't even been able to recover from. With only the ruins left - even modern science haven’t been able to acknowledge the genuine monuments and sites of the old Amerindians - and the last stand of the Atlantean culture. Yet.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#The_Americas
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Bianca
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« Reply #286 on: December 28, 2007, 02:07:54 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 03-18-2006 12:07 AM                       
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One really COOL Atlantic Oean find!!!

---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores. They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships. Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.


Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.


Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.


At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.


I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.
________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.htm
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Bianca
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« Reply #287 on: December 28, 2007, 02:09:01 pm »








Desiree

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   posted 03-18-2006 12:09 AM                       
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A page listing all the best known theories on Atlantis:

Atlantis
Science > Social Sciences > Archaeology > Alternative > Lost Civilizations > Atlantis Go to Directory Home

Web Pages
Viewing in Google PageRank order View in alphabetical order

Sacred-Texts: Atlantis - http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/index.htm
Complete ebooks of primary texts about Atlantis by Plato, Donnelly, Bulwer-Lytton, Scott-Elliot. Includes Donnellys' 'Atlantis the Antediluvian World' and the hard to find 'Ragnarok'; with illustrations.
Atlantis - Fact, Fiction or Exaggeration? - http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/index.html
Informational site on Atlantis and the story behind it.
Atlantis - The Lost Continent Finally Found - http://www.atlan.org/
Long articles by a Brazilian scientist, Prof. Arysio Santos. Various locations, science and mythology discussed. Conclusion: Atlantis was in the South China Sea
Atlantis: Timaeus and Critias - http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/timaeus_and_critias.html
One of the earliest, and most quoted, mention of the lost continent of Atlantis, came from these two dialogues of Plato.
The Sunken Kingdom: The Atlantis Mystery Solved - http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/james/
Written by an historian and archaeologist, this book takes an entirely new approach. It reviews previous theories, some fantastic, some more rational, and shows why they will not work; concluding with the story of Atlantis came from western Turkey, where a major Bronze Age city was devastated by an earthquake and submerged beneath a lake.
Discovery of Atlantis - http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com
Website supporting a book, which argues Atlantis was on Cyprus. Includes excerpt, VRML models and animations
Historic Atlantis in Bolivia - http://www.geocities.com/webatlantis/
The argument for the discovery of the site of Atlantis on the Bolivian Altiplano.
A.R.E. Ancient Civilizations, Atlantis and Egypt - http://edgarcayce.org/am/
Comparisons between the civilizations of Ancient Egypt and the Lost Continent of Atlantis.
Team Atlantis - http://www.teamatlantis.com/
An Underwater Archaeological Research Team - traveling the world and filming a series of virtual expeditions featured live on the Internet!
Bermuda Triangle Stargate - http://www.greatdreams.com/bermuda.htm
A German historian/scuba diver has recorded the exact location and value of deviations in magnetic fields off the Bahamas coast. Are they connected to Atlantis? Dr. Michael Preisinger investigates.
Atlantis or Thira - http://www.angelfire.com/hi/alhawk/atlanthira.html
Discusses the possibility that the Minoan civilization on Thira, Crete, and those island surrounding was actually the lost civilization of Atlantis.
Atlantis Revealed - http://www.atlantisrevealed.com/
A speculative history of Atlantis and the mysteries surrounding it.
Atlantis: Myth or Reality? - http://atlantis.haktanir.org/
Working theory attempting to make a connection between ancient writings and maps with more recent discoveries.
When the Sky Fell: In Search of Atlantis - http://www.flem-ath.com/
Colorful 20-page (linear) article that proposes Antarctica as the site of Atlantis, destroyed by a pole-shift. An extension of Hapgood's work.
Atlantide Home - http://www.cyberdh.com/atlan/home.htm
A strange description of Atlantis.
Atlantis History - http://www.atlantishistory.com/
Accounts for the origins and history of Atlantis including references to Plato, glaciers, and proto-European civilization, as well as a theory of who the descendants of Atlantis are in today's time.
World Mysteries - Atlantis - http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_10.htm
Explore the only existing written records which specifically refer to Atlantis: Plato's Timaeus and Critias. Includes related resources.
Atlantis - http://www.lost-civilizations.net/atlantis.html
Collected and original essays on the topic of Atlantis.
The Lost Continent of Atlantis - http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/vwlessons/lessons/Ch2CM/Content5NewAt.html
Discussion and speculation about Atlantis, its location and place in history.
An easy guide to Atlantis - http://members.aol.com/jimb3d/atlantis.html
A simple overview of the hypothetical locations of the lost continent.
Quest for Atlantis - http://www.atlantisquest.com/
A scholarly study of Plato's Atlantis covering linguistic connections, myths, geology, archeaology, anthropology and Egyptian & Sanskrit writings.
Atlantis in the Caribbean - http://www.atlantisinsights.net/Carib.htm
Discussion stemming from Cayce's correct prediction of underwater cities being discovered in Bimini - from the book Atlantis: Insights From a Lost Civilization, by Shirley Andrews
The Antediluvian Worldwide Language of Atlantis - http://occult-advances.org/language.shtml
In depth article about the Antediluvian Worldwide Language of Atlantis. Complete alphabet and links with old Greek and Hebrew.
Galactic Encounters, Apollo Objects and Atlantis - http://www.unibg.it/dmsia/dynamics/apollo.html
Discusses Apollo asteroid objects, their collisions with Earth, the Ice Age, and how these relate to Atlantis and the Great Flood. By Emilio Spedicato
The Atlantis Syndrome - http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/atlantissyndrome.html
Introduction to Plato's text and the myth it spawned.
Atlanticas - http://www.talewins.com/NF1.htm
A chapter from the book Atlanticas by Gábor Bihari. Plato never for a moment spoke of a continent! He always mentioned Atlantis as an island. He wrote: " there was an island, which was bigger than Libya and Asia combined."
Atlantis and Noah's Flood - http://www.atlantis-schoppe.de
Presents the theory that Atlantis is submerged in the Black Sea, an event which it is claimed happened following the breach of the Bosporus land barrier at the beginning of the European Neolithic period. In English and German.
Edgar Cayce on Atlantis - http://all-ez.com/atlantis1.htm
Readings by Cayce relating to the lost continent of Atlantis.
The Thracian Atlantis - http://www20.brinkster.com/thracians
The art history, ancient civilization, spiritual life, of a Thracian Atlantis.
Scott Stones Explorers and Research Team - http://www.freddyreyes.com/atlantis.htm
Press releases from the Scott Stones Explorers and Research Team and other news about Atlantis
History of Atlantis: Descendants of Atlantis - http://www.geocities.com/atlantishistory/
Paper which explores whether Northern Europeans are more related to the Atlanteans than other Mediterranean cultures and groups.
USAtlantis - http://www.USAtlantis.com
An introduction page for the USAtlantis MSN group which features images and other information relating to Atlantis
Atlantis: A Lost Lybio-Phoenician Empire. - http://atlantis.religionstatistics.net/
Taking into account the clues left by Plato, archaeology, and history together, a concludes that Atlantis was a federation of Lybio-Phoenician cities of Morocco and the Canary Islands.

http://www.google.com/Top/Science/Social_Sciences/Archaeology/Alternative/Lost_Civilizations/Atlantis/
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« Reply #288 on: December 28, 2007, 02:10:36 pm »








Apollo

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   posted 03-18-2006 03:06 AM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cicero:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Apollo:
[QB]Plato's originals have been missing for perhaps two thousand years. Consult with your professors if you don't believe me.
 
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I consulted my text-critical translation which lists all different known versions of the greek text with their sources. There are about 40 papyri and similar sources which contain parts of the texts, from which the text could be compiled again. Sorry for you, but the arabic trace is wrong. Forget it. It seems to be a hoax living in this forum specially :-)
Thorwald
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Apparently, you still have much learning to do. Plato's original writings were essentially lost to western civilization until they were brought from Constantinople in the century before its fall by George Gemistos Plethon. The Arabs not only had them, they wrote extensive commentaries on them. Plato's earliest commentators - Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Averroes - are all Arabs. Of course, they wrote in Arabic, not Greek, which was, by that time a dead language.

Latin was the first language they were translated into. While some fragments of the ancient Greeks do exist, they do not comprise the complete dialogues. Plato's originals have been lost for 2400 years. Up until the Renaissance, the medievals knew of Plato only from Latin translations (the oldest being Calcidius) until the writings uncovered by Persian and Arab scholars. However, believe as you wish. Since you seem to be mostly about discrediting the dialogues as opposed to using them as a guide, I suppose what they say is of really no consequence to you anyway.


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« Reply #289 on: December 28, 2007, 02:11:56 pm »








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   posted 03-18-2006 03:12 AM                   
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quote:
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Originally posted by cicero:

quote:
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Originally posted by Apollo:
Plato didn't write the story down

quote:
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b) We assume the possibility, that Plato or the priests etc. made mistakes. Then we FIRST can try to investigate these errors themselves. And SECONDLY we can try to investigate Atlantis elsewhere.
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No, placing Atlantis in Sicily would be pseudo-science. As a wise man once said, how many elements of a story are you allowed to change and still have it be the same story?
Apparently, in your case, the answer would be, "all of them."

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Well, who dares to tell Apollo, that he is revealing more about him than about me in his postings? Who will tell him the difference between interpreting something and changing something?
And I have to mention it again: I do NOT place Atlantis in Sicily, how many times I have to tell you this again and again? You know the difference between an idea - a hypothesis - and a theory? I hope you do.
Thorwald
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Certainly, I understand your meaning, Thorwald. You entertained the Sicily "hypothesis," and then, lo and behold, it became a "theory" once you realized that you would have to go through the trouble of defending it. Nice job of cutting and running.

Apollo

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« Reply #290 on: December 28, 2007, 02:13:04 pm »








cicero
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quote:
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Originally posted by Apollo:
Apparently, you still have much learning to do. Plato's original writings were essentially lost to western civilization until they were brought from Constantinople in the century before its fall by George Gemistos Plethon. The Arabs not only had them, they wrote extensive commentaries on them. Plato's earliest commentators - Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Averroes - are all Arabs. Of course, they wrote in Arabic, not Greek, which was, by that time a dead language.

Latin was the first language they were translated into. While some fragments of the ancient Greeks do exist, they do not comprise the complete dialogues. Plato's originals have been lost for 2400 years. Up until the Renaissance, the medievals knew of Plato only from Latin translations (the oldest being Calcidius) until the writings uncovered by Persian and Arab scholars. However, believe as you wish. Since you seem to be mostly about discrediting the dialogues as opposed to using them as a guide, I suppose what they say is of really no consequence to you anyway.

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Apparently you are a little confused. First you state, the Bycantines are the sources, which is partially right, then you state, the Arabs are the sources. Then you state, the first commentators of Plato had been Arabs - what a rubbish!
Thorwald

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cicero
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quote:
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Originally posted by Apollo:
Certainly, I understand your meaning, Thorwald. You entertained the Sicily "hypothesis," and then, lo and behold, it became a "theory" once you realized that you would have to go through the trouble of defending it. Nice job of cutting and running.
Apollo [/QB]
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Apollo, your jokes are the best in this forum. It would have been the other way round: Downgrading a theory to a hypothesis, if so. The highest rank of scientific knowledge is a "theory".
And furthermore: I didn't talk of a "theory" or a "hypothesis", but of an "idea", which is most probably wrong, and therefore, I do not state anything concerning it.
Thorwald

[ 03-18-2006, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: cicero ]

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cicero
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quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Cicero you do realize the Sicily theory has been abandoned. [/QB]
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Since I have no Sicily "theory" or "hypothesis", this does not bother me 
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« Reply #291 on: December 28, 2007, 02:14:13 pm »








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quote:
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Apollo, your jokes are the best in this forum. It would have been the other way round: Downgrading a theory to a hypothesis, if so. The highest rank of scientific knowledge is a "theory".
And furthermore: I didn't talk of a "theory" or a "hypothesis", but of an "idea", which is most probably wrong, and therefore, I do not state anything concerning it.
Thorwald
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Since you don't even employ any science in any or your posts, the distinction as far as you're concerned is irrelevant. The fact that you've now made it an idea would seem to mean you're even more embarrassed by it. I imagine it won't be very long before it becomes a random thought. But the point is to be called a scientist, you have to have science in your posts, you have none.

And I disagree, you have the best jokes in the forum. I always manage to get a good laugh out of talking to you. Others here seem to find you quite amusing, as well.

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« Reply #292 on: December 28, 2007, 02:17:56 pm »








Apollo

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cicero:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Apollo:
Apparently, you still have much learning to do. Plato's original writings were essentially lost to western civilization until they were brought from Constantinople in the century before its fall by George Gemistos Plethon. The Arabs not only had them, they wrote extensive commentaries on them. Plato's earliest commentators - Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Averroes - are all Arabs. Of course, they wrote in Arabic, not Greek, which was, by that time a dead language.

Latin was the first language they were translated into. While some fragments of the ancient Greeks do exist, they do not comprise the complete dialogues. Plato's originals have been lost for 2400 years. Up until the Renaissance, the medievals knew of Plato only from Latin translations (the oldest being Calcidius) until the writings uncovered by Persian and Arab scholars. However, believe as you wish. Since you seem to be mostly about discrediting the dialogues as opposed to using them as a guide, I suppose what they say is of really no consequence to you anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently you are a little confused. First you state, the Bycantines are the sources, which is partially right, then you state, the Arabs are the sources. Then you state, the first commentators of Plato had been Arabs - what a rubbish!
Thorwald
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Apparently, you are still the one confused, and, as usual, your posts are nothing but more rubbish.

Everything I have said here is common knowledge, familiar to anyone who knows Plato or who is willing to spend a little time to check it out. Do you even know who Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Averroes and George Gemistos Plethon are?

Why even get involved with this at all if you have so little regard for the truth?
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« Reply #293 on: December 28, 2007, 02:21:27 pm »








nekozuki

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Again, Atlantic named before Plato wrote down Timaeus and Critias. The name "Atlantis" was referring to a place in the Atlantic. How much more obvious does it get?

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nekozuki

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quote:
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Originally posted by Apollo:

quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Personally I think he should be more open-minded, otherwise I think we found the twin of Herr.
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Yes, I notice that the two of them got along quite well when Herr was still here.
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Maybe they should join forces. But as of yet Cicero hasn't really done anything to me to where I can't stand him, Herr was just downright hostile and rude about everything.

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« Reply #294 on: December 28, 2007, 02:22:59 pm »








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Almost all the Atlantis theories that want to revise Plato are dependent on the Greeks not knowing anything of their geography or history. Equally, they were only supposed to have lived all their lives within whatever region they happened to be born in.

Time to get beyond that, I say. Timaeus has a perfect decription of the geography of the Mediterranean, the Atlantic Ocean and I daresay America as well. All this was written nearly two thousand years before Columbus was said to "discover" America. True scientists will be open to these ideas and will eventually revise their views. The parrots (one of which seems to be here) will not.

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« Reply #295 on: December 28, 2007, 02:24:23 pm »








nekozuki

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I think Boreasi gave out some startling info on how it vividly describes the Atlantic Ocean and also what Desiree pointed out about the underwater temple.

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rockessence

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Boreas,

Great piece on C. Columbus!!!
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« Reply #296 on: December 28, 2007, 02:26:19 pm »








cicero
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Apollo:

quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Personally I think he should be more open-minded, otherwise I think we found the twin of Herr.
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Yes, I notice that the two of them got along quite well when Herr was still here.
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Again a good chance to recognize the simple truth: Some follow the one way, some the other way. And the very sense of the Atlantis Research Charter is just to define publicly one of these ways, to gather all who can share the charter's values. So far there is no reason for problems and everybody can be happy with it.
Thorwald

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« Reply #297 on: December 28, 2007, 02:28:00 pm »









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Any effort to preserve Atlantis is worth the merit.


Any effort to suppress Atlantis is done in vanity.
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nekozuki

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I have noticed that the truth of archaeology is shrouded in secrets because people don't want to ruin their careers. This is stupid, but it's happened throughout history. Both Galileo and Christopher Columbus were persecuted to their death because what they found changed what was known about the world. Funny how people just don't learn.

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Desiree

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quote:
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Originally posted by nekozuki:
Desiree, that is very interesting. Yes,islands will pop up on the Atlantic and then disappear the next day especially if it's on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It must've have been very clear water that day 



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I'll say, Neko! I think it would be one of the most exciting finds in the world if it turned out to be true!

The reason why no one has checked into it in anymore detail? Well, underwater research in the Azores costs millions of dollars. While your typical underwater research you can maybe check out with some scuba gear, the area around the Azores would definitely need a submarine. 
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« Reply #298 on: December 28, 2007, 02:29:23 pm »








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Here's the story again, in case anyone has missed it:

One really COOL Atlantic Oean find!!!

---AZORES---
As for the subject of a possible discovery off the Azores Islands
in the Atlantic, here was the first item that I saw in my issue. You can read
the exact version at http://www.ancientamerican.com/issue41.htm as to
"U.S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?" on p.36.


It seems a dispatch was put out from the mid-Atlantic and passed
on via William Donato who is President of The Atlantis Organization. This was
September 7th, 2001. A team was about 250 miles SW of the Azores. They had
some very high tech instruments which included underwater devices. They
were researching a 90 kilometer ledge. Why? Because these items were
"spotted" (I am unsure of the exact terminology depending on what devices were used).
They found a temple supported by 9 pillars(3 feet in diameter). The
pillars supported a flat roof of 20 feet x 30 feet wide. Remains of 5 circular
canals, along with bridges. And 4 rings of structures like the centrally
located temple. Location is approximately in 2800 feet in the Mid-Atlantic
ridge. At the moment it seems to be stable. They tried sending photos but
were jammed either inadvertantly or on purpose by several military ships
which carried a US flag. The dispatch notes their research ship was there
on a special research project for Spain. Finally they were chased off by the
military ship/ships. Mountains are said to rise within 300 feet of the
surface also in this vicinity. Using sonar, they tried following the ridge
west, but slowly towards the south. It is believed they may connect with a
shelf near Hispaniola and heads to Cuba.


Another ship tried tracking the ridge towards England or to its
East. However, the military ships seem to be doing maneuvers, but as if
they are trying to prevent the research.

NOW, awhile back, some updated information came to me, and they
wanted to remain anonymous due to governmental interference. So I guess
the best thing to do is make up a name to refer to them for future reference.
As much as I hate to, I guess some steps are necessary to protect others. And
I would not want to be the one to cause problems for them or endanger them.
So we will refer to him as AnonyMous, which will make it easy for me to
remember.


AnonyMous has shared some items on the Azores "find", but in brief
& very quickly. So my notes may not be complete. But the story I was given
goes like this. AnonyMous explained he was not on any of the ships when
the discovery was made, but calls them colleagues. And his information is
direct from them. Just like in the article, a Bathoscope was one item used. The
complex(my term here) consists of about 30 to 40 structures, and they seem
to be uncannily preserved. The "settlement"(his term) is about 2200 feet
deep which is about the same as Cuba's find. There are "rounds" or
circles, and on one end there seems to be a harbor, sort of like Plato's
description.


Elsewhere recently, about 5 islands have surfaced 250 miles SW of
the Azores. However, this does occur frequently in the Atlantic. Here
today, gone tomorrow. Perhaps.... Time will tell.


At night they noticed something most unusual. It appears as if the
bottom is moving. It seems to rise 35 to 40 feet. I am not sure, but I
think it stabilized, bit I might be wrong.


They have retrieved a few pieces. Even though underwater for a
very long time, the Carbon-14 testing reveals a time which places it back in
the 10,000 BC era or 12,500 years back era. One plate (possible plaque) had
very strange pictographs on it. But it seems different from anything we know of
in today's time.


Further on the circles, there are 9 circles joined & separated. 3
Circles open to a Causeway.


In the middle of the complex, what appears to be a giant crystal
either 40 or 400 feet across(my notes have a contradiction as to if the
second zero was there). There is a huge 30 meter high statue that is
intact. Who knows, it may even be of Poseidon. Time will tell.


I have a note about the odd weight of one piece, but unsure of
what the oddity was. One pioece was tested with a laser, but it did nothing to
it. The material is not like anything we have today.

And AnonyMous wonders just why the government is trying to
suppress this find. Is it due to power, money, superiority, or just what. I was
informed that not only were there US Navy ships, but British ones as well,
and I think another countries if not mistaken. There is no question the
research ships were prevented from doing any more, as it was deliberate,
not just due to practice maneuvers. But the crew(s), as well as others, have
been threatened to turn over their find. However, nobody has given up the
data or the location of the find.


He named a few agencies of the US involved, such as CIA(Central
Intelligence Agency) & DIA(Defense Intelligence Agency), and of course the
Navy. These were the main 3 agencies that have kept this find suppressed.


He was afraid that if the government got the data, this find will
never be brought forth into the public's eye(into the community was his
thoughts) and into the scientific world. In other words, they want it out
in the open & want everything to be handled scientifically to document
everything. Their query is what we all want, to know of our past so that
we can face the future & not make the same mistakes.

I guess I'll end it here, except AnonyMous noted that Paulina and
those involved in the Cuba find have also been threatened if not being
suppressed. I have known of the CIA threatening researchers in the
Carribean concerning finds for a couple of years now. An archaeologist told me some
of the goings on behind the scenes. You would be amazed as to how far the CIA
has infiltrated the Atlantis researchers It is sad that such a thing
exists.


Now before anybody thinks I am into promoting a bunch of
conspiracies, I assure you, I am not. My hopes are that the researchers
will some day be free of interference & suppression so that we might find the
truth of our existence, or I should say our distant past reaching out to
our far future.
________________________________________________________________________
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« Reply #299 on: December 28, 2007, 02:30:49 pm »








nekozuki

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And it's too difficult to do research on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

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Desiree

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Plus, all the historians would rather not find something there cause it would upset their theories!
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