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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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« Reply #120 on: December 23, 2007, 02:46:38 pm »








dhill757

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Researchers have observed, again by studying contemporary preliterate people, that bands become inefficient when they grow large. Inevitably, as a group expands, people break away and form new bands. As the number of PaleoIndians mounted near the Ohio, Cumberland, and Tennessee Rivers, new groups likely separated and headed for other territories. It was during this time of expansion, sometime in the Early PaleoIndian period between 11,500 and 11,000 years ago, that the first people passed through land now occupied by Fort Benning and left the two distinctive Clovis spear points.
What they were doing, where they came from, and where they were going can only be speculated. Perhaps they were trailing big game or searching for a new home or for rock outcrops where they could extract materials for tools. In all probability, they camped on spots with a good view of the wide Chattahoochee River.

Just as with many Clovis spear point discoveries in the Southeast, there was no other evidence-no other tools, no campfire charcoal, no sign of housing-found with the artifacts on Fort Benning. This doesn't mean that Early PaleoIndians didn't burn fires or build shelters. Signs could have been destroyed in the acidic soils or buried under centuries of river sediment. Future excavations may yet reveal such evidence. It is also possible that scientists don't yet recognize all the tools PaleoIndians used.

Whatever drew PaleoIndians to the region, one of their most likely activities was hunting. PaleoIndians in the Southeast ate a variety of foods. They probably gathered nuts and leafy plants, dug up roots, and also hunted small game such as deer and rabbit. There is little doubt, however, that they also tracked large animals, such as the giant sloth-a slow-moving mammal standing up to 18 feet tall-the grizzly bear, and the elephant-like mastodons and mammoths.

Ideas about how PaleoIndians hunted such massive animals comes, in part, from research about African elephants. Other information derives from PaleoIndian sites in the western United States where dry conditions help preserve bone better than in the Southeast. Scientists have found PaleoIndian spear points lodged between mammoth rib bones and embedded in ribs of prehistoric bison, proof of the hunting prowess of early people. PaleoIndian spear points have also been found near mammoth skeletons in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Mastodon bones and fluted points have also been located together in Missouri.

Even in the Southeast, where environmental decomposition complicates discoveries, some limited evidence of PaleoIndian interaction with large Ice Age species exists. Archeologists exploring underwater sites in Florida have recovered a prehistoric bison skull with an embedded spear point fragment and a prehistoric horse skeleton and mammoth bones with cut marks apparently made by humans.

While other signs of hunting are slim, scientists have little doubt that PaleoIndians were pursuing large Ice Age creatures in the South. Scuba divers near St. Simon's Island, Georgia recently surfaced with remains of a giant sloth. The sloth in life stood 14 feet tall and 22 feet long and weighed perhaps six tons. Slow-moving animals that looked somewhat like bears, sloths were vegetarians. They stood on hind legs and reached high into trees, using 12-inch claws to snare tree limbs and pull them within reach.

Another recent find was a fossilized, Ice-Age elephant bone on a beach at Edisto Island, South Carolina. Someone thousands of years ago apparently carved grooves in the bone with a knife. Large prehistoric animals also roamed the area around Fort Benning. Just south of the post in Stewart County, Georgia a mastodon tooth was recovered. Scientists speculate that the mammoth, the mightiest of Ice Age animals, also roamed in the area, though in lesser numbers than the mastodon.

Mammoths stood up to 12 feet tall and weighed thousands of pounds, dwarfing the PaleoIndian hunters. Their tough hides and shaggy hair insulated the creatures from frigid weather. Long, sharp, semicircular tusks, along with massive size and surprising speed, provided protection from enemies. Such formidable defenses meant the mammoths faced no serious predators except for humans.

To hunt the mammoth, the PaleoIndians had to keep careful watch on their intended prey by often lurking downwind at watering holes. The hunters targeted animals that strayed from the herd and those that appeared weakest-the sick, the old, and the young. Even so, attacking a mammoth required courage, intense concentration, and cooperation. Hunters had to rely on surprise by sneaking undetected within a few feet of the animal. When they rose up to attack, they had to be close enough to throw or jab their spears with sufficient force to pierce the mammoth's tough hide. Then they had to scramble out of the way or be crushed because the wounded creature might thrash about or charge with horrifying speed. The noise and confusion of trumpeting mammoths and thundering hooves must have been deafening and terrifying. All the effort and danger proved worthwhile if the hunt was successful because the PaleoIndians were rewarded not only with ample meat, but also with raw materials for housing, clothing, and tools.


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http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/benning-book/ch01.htm]http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/benning-book/ch01.htm
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« Reply #121 on: December 23, 2007, 02:47:59 pm »








dhill757

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GEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE
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The Importance of Oceanography

The geological aspect of Atlantis is the most important facet of the whole issue of Atlantis. If the geological story of this planet does not support the existence of a large island in the midst of the North Atlantic, then, to make a long story short, Atlantis is down the tube. Therefore, establishing the feasibility of such a landmass geologically is of paramount importance. In the case of Atlantis, geology and oceanography are closely entwined.

SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIONS

The center of the geological story of Atlantis is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Other related aspects are confined to the ocean bottom in the vicinity of the Ridge. Therefore, these areas will be the focal points of this study. Since I am not an oceanographer myself, I will rely on the special reports and scientific papers of oceanographers and geologists who have done work in these areas in the past.


Don't let anyone tell you that the discovery of Plate Tectonics (involving "continental drift") disproves Atlantis in any way. I've heard professionals in the field make statements like, "This doesn't leave any room for Atlantis!", or "the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is made of basaltic material, it can't be part of a continent!" We will let you decide after you have looked at the evidence.

THE ATLANTIC LANDMASS

Professional geologists have endeavored to make Plate Tectonics (which is the backbone of modern geology) the enemy of Atlantis (Speicher, 1972). Nothing could be further from the truth. Plate Tectonics is what created and what destroyed Atlantis. It is also what has made it such an unreliable dwelling place for plants or animals, and the landmass we have chosen to call Atlantis may have gone in and out of existence several times over a period of many millions of years. It was not always the same size or the same shape, and it doubtless had different catagories of flora and fauna during these different periods of time. It doesn't take long for a landmass to develop some sort of collection of flora and fauna in geological terms. In a mere thousand years, all kinds of trees, grass, weeds and bushes could cover any landmass making its appearence in a temperate or tropical zone. Such growth couldn't care less whether the land was made of continental (sial) or basaltic (sima) material. Or whether it was officially a "continent" or not. Greenland is an island. Plato called Atlantis "a large island". So if it was as large as Greenland (a pretty big place), it would still be an "island".
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« Reply #122 on: December 23, 2007, 02:49:43 pm »








dhill757

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                                                    PLATE TECTONICS





Did North America and Europe fit together so perfectly that there was no body of water in between? Evidence indicates that there was a "proto-Atlantic Ocean" even before the continents began to spread apart. This evidence was obtained during a series of core drillings by the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory's Deep-Sea Project. During this expedition it was found that sediments off the coasts of North Africa and North America differed in age some 45 million years. Had the continents been joined the sediments would have been the same age (Hayes & Pimm, 1971). The nature of the samples resulted in Dr. Hayes postulating a 400-mile-wide "proto-Atlantic Ocean" extending from Newfoundland down to at least the Bermuda area.


Moreover the phenomenon known as "continental drift," which is due to the action of Plate Tectonics, is an extremely slow process. The breakup which left the Americas and Euro-Africa drifting apart began near the beginning of the Mesozoic Era some 200 million years ago. There has been sufficient room for Atlantis in the North Atlantic Ocean for the last 60 million years--and there is definitive oceanographic data to support this (Ewing, 1948).


Some biologists and zoologists have postulated the existence of a large landmass in the North Atlantic during Miocene times, 12-26 million years ago. Atlantis may have "surfaced" several times during the long geological history of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. We are more concerned about the last 3 million years, i.e., during the Pleistocene Epoch, which ended circa. 12,000 years ago.


But what of the objections concerning the light granitic continental material known as sial (silicon-aluminum)? As stated above, a landmass does not have to be made of sial in order to be above ocean levels long enough to acquire vegetation and animal populations. Granted, if consisting predominately of sima (silicon-magnesium) it will be heavier and therefore unstable, but forces powerful enough to lift ocean bottoms for short periods of time (geologically speaking) certainly exist along the geologically turbulent Mid-Atlantis Ridge. The Ridge is the most active area on the face of the earth, and we will examine the evidence that a central Atlantic landmass has indeed existed several times in the geologic past.


But, in spite of what various geologists have said, there is good oceanographic data showing that much of this area along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is composed of sial, in spite of the scientific objections (Leonard, 1979). Dr. W. Maurice Ewing of Columbia University headed up several oceanographic expeditions along the famous Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
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« Reply #123 on: December 23, 2007, 02:51:20 pm »








dhill757

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                                         THE OCEANOGRAPHIC EXPEDITIONS





In 1948 Dr. Ewing, one of the bitter opponants of Atlantis, sailed up and down the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during the Woods Hole Oceanographic Expeditions to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Numerous samples of tremolite asbestos were brought up. Ewing made this significant comment: "Such rock is generally considered typical of continents and not of ocean basins." (Ewing, 1948) Important also was the discovery of "beachlike terraces" beneath two miles of ocean water. Ewing cautiously observed: "It is, of course, extremely radical speculation to identify these level stretches more than two miles below the sea surface as former beaches. Such a theory would require the obvious but almost incredible conclusion that the land has subsided two miles or else the sea has risen by that amount" (Ewing, 1948). However, subsequent expeditions only strengthened the "incredible".


According to Ewing, long flat stretches were detected 2 to 20 miles wide and hundreds of miles long. These beach-like areas were always covered with thick sediments, indicating a long period of deposition, although always separated by mountainous "higher ground" with no such sediments. (The Central Highland of the Ridge occasionally approaches four-fifths of a mile from the sea surface.) Ewing observed that deep ocean basins never have thick sediments--which are the result of surf action and river deposition--it is actually shorelines that display thick sediments. More evidence of just how recently such a landmass existed turned up during an expedition the following year.


The follow-up expedition in 1949 turned up numerous core samples from these terraces. These cores contained two different strata of beach sand: the older estimated to be 225,000-325,000 years of age, and the younger 20,000-100,000 years old (Ewing, 1949). Another significant fact is that the deposits were found to be well-sorted by serf action into the usual pattern of shoreline beaches familiar to geologists (Miller & Scholten, 1966). His conclusion was that: "Sometime in the distant past this sand found deep beneath the ocean must have been located on a beach, at or near the surface of the sea" (Ewing, 1949).


During this second Woods Hole Mid-Atlantic Ridge Expedition Dr. Ewing once again dredged up continental type rocks. Sample after sample containing large masses of sial were brought up all along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. It became obvious that granite and sedimentary rocks "which originally must have been part of a continent" were abundant (Ewing, 1949). Dr. Bruce Heezen of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that this type of rock indicates "possible sunken land masses".


Geologists have short memories when it comes to Atlantis. A geologist reviewed the Woods Hole expeditions of 1948-1949 barely ten years later and wrote a report on the findings (Cifelli, 1970). I read his report, word for word and cover to cover: not a word was written concerning the numerous findings of continental material (sial) along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Ewing was puzzled, even dismayed, by these particular discoveries; yet he was honest enough to report them. Why were these astounding facts not included in Richard Cifelli's review? Can professional geologists be this one-sided? (You know the answer to that.)


Still another oceanographic expedition, Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition of 1947-1948, yielded core samples containing sand from the Romache Deep of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Otto Mellis did not publish these findings until ten years later (Mellis, 1958). Other geologists have guardedly admitted that the Azore Islands (Central Atlantic) are composed chiefly of continental material, some even conceding that there might be enough continental material (sial) in the mid-Atlantic to make up a landmass the size of Spain (de Camp, 1970). This is not much smaller than the size I have been proposing for the island of Atlantis.
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« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2007, 02:53:55 pm »








dhill757

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                                           PLANTS AND ANIMALS ON ATLANTIS




In 1957, Dr. Rene Malaise of the Riks Museum in Stockholm announced that a colleague, Dr. R. W. Kolbe, had found proof of the geologically recent subsidance of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Kolbe of the Swedish Museum of Natural History had been commissioned to investigate diatoms found in deep-sea cores obtained during the above mentioned Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition. Although the expedition included a globe-encircling study, only those cores taken from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge yeilded the following: Multitudinous shells of fresh-water diatoms (small lake animals) and fossilized remains of terrestrial plants (Kolbe, 1957). Let me repeat that. Land plants and fresh-water animals were found fossilized on the Atlantic Ocean bottom along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


Dr. Malaise theorized that parts of the Ridge must have existed as large islands up to the end of the last Ice Age or later: i.e., as recently as 10,000-12,000 years ago. He also theorized that these landmasses must have had fresh-water lakes in order to account for the existence of fresh-water animals (Malaise, 1956). Commenting on Malaise' theory, Kolbe writes: ". . . it provides a natural explanation of the layer consisting exclusively of fresh-water diatoms, which is otherwise difficult to comprehend" (Kolbe, 1957).


The six levels of terraces discovered by the Woods Hole expeditions suggest that the Atlantic island was constantly changing shape - as well as being reduced in size - before it finally disappeared at the end of the Ice Age. Such geological changes would have been catastrophic to any life living on such a landmass: the unhappy result of the constant violence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. If the Atlantic landmass happened to be inhabited by humans, these violent disturbances could well have been the cause of the four Cro-Magnon "invasions" outlined on the Anthropological page of this web site. These well documented invasions impacted the western shores of North Africa and Europe (including Great Britain and other Atlantic islands) and occurred during a time frame of 35,000-12,000 years ago (the latter date corresponding closely to the date given by Plato for the demise of Atlantis).


* TOP of Page

Bibliography

Cifelli, Richard, "Age relationships of Mid-Atlantic Ridge sediments," Special Paper No. 124, Geological Society of America, 1970.
de Camp, L. Sprague, "Lost Continents," Dover Publications Inc., New York, 1970.
Ewing, Maurice, "Exploring the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," The National Geographic Magazine, Vol. xciv, No. 3, September 1948.
Ewing, Maurice, "New Discoveries on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," The National Geographic Magazine, Vol. xcvi, No. 5, November 1949.
Kolbe, R. W., "Fresh-Water Diatoms from Atlantic Deep-Sea Sediments," Science, Vol. 126, No. 3282, 22 November, 1957.
Leonard, R. Cedric, A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, Special Paper No. 1, Cowan Publ., Bethany, 1979.
Leonard, R. Cedric, "Quest for Atlantis," Manor Books Inc., New York, 1979.
Malaise, Rene, Sjunket l and i Atlanten, Ymer, Stockholm, 1956. (See also his Atlantis en Geologisk Verklighet, Bibliofilupplaga, Stockholm, 1951.)
Mellis, Otto, Zur Sedimentation in Der Romache-Tiefe (Ein Beitrag zur Erklarung der Enstellung des Tiefseesandes in Atlantischen Ozean), Geologischen Rundschau, Goteborg, 1958.
Miller, J. P. & Scholten, R., "Ocean, Lakes, and Shoreline Features," Labratory Studies in Geology, No. 225, 1966.
Speicher, John, "Plate Tectonics--A Startling New View of Our Turbulent Earth," Popular Science, Vol. 200, No. 6, June 1972.


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« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2007, 02:55:49 pm »








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Dhill,



I know you explore a huge amount of data. Have you already researched and posted about the consequences of relatively small pole shifts?

Today I dug through the Hutton Commentaries on Pole Shift. This is really amazing stuff. If you haven't already gone into this topic in substantial detail, then I highly recommend it to you.

Superficially, the Hutton webpage about poleshift may seen to be involved with Edgar Cayce. But I noticed today that it is easy to "genealize" the data to almost any part of the earth's surface, while still retaining a conection to the basic theme of Atlantis.

Consider for example, the widely different locations of Cuba, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and Cyprus, where Atlantis researchers have recently been looking at plains that are about 2000 feet underwater.

The Hutton Commentary specifically deals with the Bimini predictions (and/or the Cuban 2001 investigations).

The Earth's North pole is drifting toward Bimini (and it has been going in this direction ever since Cayce gave his trance readings). It has been calculated by a serious, conventional scientist that the shape of the geoid (for determining sea level) should "fall" in the direction where the North Pole is heading.

If the North Pole could shift one degree farther "toward" Bimini, then (other things being equal) that would cause sea level at the latitude of Bimini to fall by about 965 feet relative to continental land.

What should Atlantis researchers glean from this type of analysis?

I presume this tells us that a pole shift of 2 degrees "toward" Cuba would make the now-famous Cuban artifacts be near sea level.

Likewize, I presume that a pole shift of 2 degrees "toward" Cyprus would make the Mediterranean Sea Level fall to the approximately the depths where Sarmast thinks Atlantis may have been located.

And furthermore a pole shift of 2 degrees "toward" the mid-Atlantic trench would make the mid-ocean seamounts "seem to be" 2000 feet higher (relative to sea level) than they curently are.

Here is a quote from the Hutton Commentaries about the consequences of a "one degree" poleshift toward Bimini.

quote from: http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/PSResearch/Strain/SmallPoleShift.htm

Strain now continues with the words quoted below, which contain several correspondences with several other Earth-change readings:

"The New Honduras and Nicaragua east coasts of Central America extend to the east for 100-200 miles. The Yucatan Peninsula extends about two degrees further north. The continental shelf off the east Texas and south Louisiana coasts are drained to move the coastline out about two degrees into the Gulf of Mexico. Florida picks up more than its present width from the Gulf of Mexico, while extending the state south to below the Florida Keys. The east coast of the United States from Florida to New Jersey gains about one degree of continental shelf lands from the Atlantic. An area about the size of Pennsylvania is added off Cape Cod as Georges Banks is drained. Even more land appends to Nova Scotia by exposing the Sable Island Bank. Over 300 miles of new continent are added to the east of Newfoundland as the lowered geoid exposes the Grand Banks….An island about the same size as Florida forms by the drainage of the Great Bahama Bank."

The foregoing exposed sea-floors would be created by the draining of continental shelves, and all of the emergence of lands would be due to the mere 1° pole shift. Assuming that the crust in the areas just mentioned is rigid, which it is not, Panama City would rise (relative to the post-shift sea level) some 1030 ft, Tampa 999 ft, Miami 953 ft, Jacksonville 1045 ft, Charleston 1110 ft, Norfolk 1180 ft, New York City 1222 ft, Boston 1228 ft, and Halifax 1230 ft. More later about these seemingly excessive east coast elevation changes.
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« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2007, 02:57:19 pm »









dhill757

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Thanks for the information, Atalante, it was very interesting. Although, Hutton's date for the proposed pole shift, 2001, has already passed, I can see this happening in a future that may be more near than people can envision. I actually found the conclusions you drew from it in terms of how they related to Atlantis and the Cuban artifacts more inciteful than those of the author of that particular article.
Here's another article from one of my favorite websites, the New Scientist, that seems to suggest that climate changes happen much quicker than modern science is giving them credit for:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996470

I don't know if you've ever seen that movie "the Day After Tomorrow." It's a little too fantastic in parts, but gives you the idea what would happen if modern civilization had this kind of rapid climate shift.
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« Reply #127 on: December 23, 2007, 02:58:26 pm »








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I saw the "Day After Tomorrow." I didn't think it was that hot. I watched it because I was hoping to get the "feel" of what it must have been like for the Ice Age to end and Atlantis to get submerged. It was so unrealistic, though, that I had a hard time accepting any of it. Very unrealistic! 
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« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2007, 03:01:03 pm »








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Psycho,



Quote; "Europeans went to South American the 1500's, the indigenous people thought that they were the same people who built their ancient civilisation, they described them as a divine race of bearded Whites".

The famous Thor Heyerdahl spent a lot of years with different indigenious people of Latin- and South-America, as he explored and excavated areas that are still is populated by indians - basically.

As he passed 80 years Mr. Heyerdahl had heard the same story - about "the tall, bearded white brother" - who once came to be "wisemen and teachers of our great ancestors", - from a long row of different villages and tribes of Indians.

Being a Norwegian made it almost impossible - even to Dr. Heyerdahl - to accept the possibility that these "great teachers" and "creators of greatness" could have anything to do with the ancient North-European sailors. Because the pioneers of this sea-culture - and of oversea travels -
are to be found in Scandinavia, as they were the first to create the building-teqniques neccesary to construct sailboats the size of ships - with the neccesary abilities of "riding the waves" - as the forefathers of the Vikings put it.

But slowly, slowy it changed. In the 1960-ties and 70-ties his friend Helge Ingstad and his wife, archaeologist Anne-Stine, - got the due recognition for their discovery of the Norse setlements in Lanse d` Meadows.

That proved that the Norse sailors not only reached New Foundland and Labrador - it meant that they created regular "colonies" there - with a steady communication back east. From the row of discoveries found after that it is highly plausible that more ships would arrive every year, as the Norwegian "Sea-Kings" where allowing the Dukes and Earls to travel westwards, to trade - with the Indians, and to experience their lives and their culture. That way the Kingdom of Norway became known as the "by far the largest of the three Scandinavian kingdoms".

Since ice-time the Norsemen methodically populated all islands in the North-Atlantic - including those offshore the wastcoast of the US. One typical Viking-ship, from around the years 1.000 AC, is actually found in a beach in the Haiti Island.

The indians did not do cross-continental seafaring at all, those days. Nor did the Phoenicans nor the Arabs or Chinese.

Today we can recognize that the Norsemen created permanent setlements, - as far down as Virginia, Florida and some islands down south. As well as the artical, unpopulated areas of mainland N-America and Canada.

It is a well known fact that Greenland was populated long before Iceland. By a duke under the Norwegian Sea-King. As was the Orkney Island, The Hebrides and the Feroe Islands, that were populated at least 7000 years ago. Having the skills and the climatical and navigational knowledge neccesary the old Norsemen could have reached Manhatten and Vinland - now being New York and Virginia long, long before the Viking era.

Later, having conquered Scandinavia - the Vatican took all territory west of Island, from the Norwegians (aprox. 1250), then gave it to the Portugese (Tordesillias, 1501). Already in 1374 had the Porugese sent pirats to plunder and destroy the Duke of Greenland - the last to keep America directly linked to the Scandinavian nobility and royals.

Not to mention the NORSE POPULATION in north-east America. After 1501 the Portugese ruled the district according to needs. Thus the norwegian descendants was enslaved and exploited into extinction. The slave trade of the portugese actually made the call a whole state "Labrador" - that is "Laborers". Without a pay...

With a growing number of ships - and a navy of pirates - Portugal benefitted greatly by their new labor-force, filled with skills and compentence of ship-building - and navigation in artical waters.

Later the English Navy grew big enough to enter the action - and soon the Portugesse where kicked out of all N. America. As you may know it didnt even help - that the Spaniards mobilized heavily, to destroy the English navy and secure a good, Catholic domain over N-America. In the end the Spaniards have to leave too - forming the basis for todays USA. Keep remember Alamo.

---
The Goths and the Celts where tribes that went out from a common offspring of articals. Carrying the oldest boat-culture in the north as they started their exploration and population of Scandinavia and Northern Europe - as of 10.000 years ago.

The center of this area is located in the Baltic Ocean - where it had existed and developed for a minimum of 30.000 years - already. In Scandinavia the Goths were known to be the first fishing-hunting culture - that populated the coasts of Sweden and Norway. Obviously it was this fishing-culture that had the neccesary prerequisites to develop oceanic travels - using very skillfully built ships - of the neccesary size and still the sailing capability of "In ships looking like birds -flying over the waves" according to the Indian stories. And they all came from the east - and they all went back, over the ocean - to the east, when their missons were completed. As they returned by the Gulf-stream, via the southern outpost of the old Norwegian Kingdom, namely villages in Ireland and the entire Isle of Man.

Thus we may see the essential significance of Ireland - as a cross-road of old sea-routes and the main arrival of all returns from America. (Going there required knowledge of the northern route, starting on Feroe Island OR Norway/Iceland. Consequently they had to go as a "round-trip", - Norway (Trondheim) - Feroe Island - Greenland - Virginia/Florida - before returning - WITH the Gulf Stream, - "at the speed of a good wind"...

---
After 30 years of debate and doubt Dr. Heyerdahl stubbornly had to admit that "oops, - it seems that the Bronze Age Scandinavian, the anchestors of the Vikings, actually had reached America, long before anyone could guess. AND, they related to the indians for a long time - in complete peace. Seen as teachers and pioneers of the indian culture - they were obviously highly cherished and respected.
Exchanging culture, merchandize and a general knowledge ("news"?!) of eachother.

---

As the Potugese extinguished the Norse population on Greenland, Newfoundland and others - their fellow norsemen further south lost connection to their own tribe. That meant they imediatly had to become part of the eskimo or the indian communities of the respective lands. Which the eskimos own stories confirm.

Tht means there were an open door to interbreeding between the artic scandinavians and the indigenous indians.

Which is very nicely confirmed by the Indian Elder you refered above; "We indians havent always looked the way we do today".

No wonder that the Indians of the NW US have a clear influence of the Caucasian physiognomy, in clear contrast to their Amazone brethren...

The core of the Indian legends of their "True White Brother" is directly refered to in the Bocksaga too - refering how the Baltic Royals sent their envoys - accompanied by wise-men, shipped by the Norwegians - to visit and take active part in the re-construction of culture, language and global relations.

All European Royal families have legends pointing to the Man of Oden - as their common ancestor. They all got their royal rigth because they were born "Sons of Oden", being off-springs from the very first family of the first artical population. Called The Aser. That lived in an ancient capitol - where Midgard, Asgard and Sibbo were places of meetings and sermons.

As Heyerdahl turned 84 he couldn`t stay put anymore. Having re-examined the Nordic Myths and Sagas - with all their updated references, - he organised and financed a major archeological excavation. Following the road-maps and descriptions of the Icelandic Saga he ended in the old city of As-hov, north of the Black Sea. Called Troy in the Snorre-saga, who also claim that the Aser came from "this Troy" - before they emigrated into Russia and Europe, where they reformed, cultivated and instituted the Royal Houses - and all nobility - that still exists in Europe.

This story is conformed by the most trustworthy of all pre-christian sources that still exist in Euorpe, such as "The Anglo-Saxon Chronicles", "Saxo Gramaticus" -and others. They all refere to Oden/Othin/Wotan as the arnfather of their respective kingfamilies.

During christianisation all old idols were downplayed and resented. By force. Especially the old cultureal forebearers - the royals as their power, their symbols and their supremacy- went from being historical to become esoterical. Thus the unique and essential royal, by the title in short refered to as "n`Oden" became "a primitive heathen God", - refered to only as a cause of trouble, and - alas -"primitive superstition".

With that stigmata as a background it was no less than incredibly admireable that the old explorer, Senor Kon-Ti-ki, went looking for the unknown roots of our Eurasian culture and history. Arriving in Asov he could see himself at the frontpage of Time; getting the zest of the matter with the headline; "In Search of The Gods" (Time, august,2001).

Today it may look that he was far ahead of his fellow researchers. It surely looks as we have started to find the Gods. Under shuffles of earth.
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« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2007, 03:03:26 pm »









dhill757

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   posted 11-06-2004 03:25 AM                       
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quote:
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            PROOF OF THE FORMER EXISTANCE OF A LARGE ISLAND ON THE MID ATLANTIC RIDGE





River Systems Extract - Azores as a Large Island

In 1971 we carried out an inspection of parts of the South Coast of San Miguel, the largest of the Azorean Islands. At one point, we found the remnants of a large, boulder filled, river-bed truncated by the shoreline. The rounded boulders were smoothly water-worn and massive (up to two feet across). The river bed, if we remember correctly, was some two hundred and fifty feet from bank to bank; but there was now insufficient width of island to sustain such a river. The boulders were so worn that they had, obviously, travelled a considerable distance, and a strong current of water with a head of thousands of feet would have been required to transport them. There was no room on the narrow island for such a current to be fostered - the rivers source must have lain to the north, on the flanks of a high mountain range. The present mountains on San Miguel are only a little over 3,000 feet high; and we estimate that it would have required a fall of at least 10,000 feet to have reduced boulders of that size, and hardness, to the degree of roundness which they profess.

This discovery so intrigued us that we started an investigation of the mapped sea-bed around all of the islands, with remarkable results. We started with the 1:1 million scale Admiralty Chart - Arquipelago dos Acores - the numerous soundings of which gave a very good general view of the configuration of the sea bed over the whole group of Azorean islands, covering, from east to west - Ilheus das Formigas, Santa Maria, Sao Miguel, Terciera, Soa Jrge, Graciosa, Pico (with its 7,613 feet high, conical, volcanic peak). These were supplemented by larger scale charts where they were available.

We started by contouring the sea bed at intervals of 100 fathoms (600 feet), and it immediately became clear that the river systems that now modestly drain the southern flanks of Sao Miguel were merely head-water tributaries whose channels continued far out to sea, joining into one great, winding, submarine valley some 40 miles further to the south. Other islands contributed similar results and, outstanding, were the triple group of Fial, Sao Jorge and Terciera whose combined results spawned two long river-like valleys which joined into one large valley to give a system that extended for 180 miles.

The whole of the Azorean island group was separated and surrounded by a net of submarine valleys that had all the hall-marks of having once been river valley's on the surface. The Azores could - and probably had, within comparatively recent times - sunk by many thousands of feet.

The next step was to decide whether it was possible to detect any particular contours which might point to an ancient shore line pre dating the sinking of the area. In the south, there was a clear break in gradients around the 1,900 fathom (11,400 feet) contour where a very extensive plain dipped sharply into deeper water. In the north, much the same had happened but at a considerably more shallow depth.

It began to look as if a large land mass, 450 miles across from east to west, and 300 miles from north to south, had tilted from north to south and had sunk beneath the waves, leaving only its mountain peaks showing above the waters - peaks which now form the ten islands of the Azores.

After further calculation, we reached the conclusion that the tilting, either before or during foundering, had been of the order of 0.4 degrees, as a result of which the south coast had sunk more than 11,000 feet and the north coast only some 6,000 feet.

We then reconstructed the land profiles to the approximate positions in
which they should have been before the catastrophe. We re-contoured the whole area, raising the north coast by 6,000 feet; the south coast by 11,000 feet; and the intervening area proportionally to the adopted gradient. The result was the outline map shown below.

It was now possible to visualise a great island about the size and shape of Spain, with high mountain ranges rising over 12,000 feet above sea level and impressive rivers running in curving valley systems. In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3,500 square miles, and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, and we shall sea, points in common with the great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the Island of Atlantis.

The study on which we have embarked has two parts. The first is to establish that a large island could have existed in mid-Atlantic in Pre-historic times; the second is to determine whether there could have been a connection between the inhabitants of such an island and our heroes - The Shining Ones.

In our judgement, the first of these parts has been successfully determined; and it is proper, therefore, to proceed with an examination of Plato's detailed description of Atlantis and its inhabitants.

Extract from Chapter 18 The Shining Ones by Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien


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http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/342proof.html 
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« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2007, 03:05:22 pm »








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  posted 11-17-2004 12:33 PM                       
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In the spirit of resuming our discussion of the earlier settlement of humans in America:

quote:
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Scientist: Man in Americas earlier than thought
Archaeologists put humans in North America 50,000 years ago





By Marsha Walton and Michael Coren
CNN
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 Posted: 2:17 PM EST (1917 GMT)

(CNN) -- Archaeologists say a site in South Carolina may rewrite the history of how the Americas were settled by pushing back the date of human settlement thousands of years.
An archaeologist from the University of South Carolina today announced radiocarbon tests that dated the first human settlement in North America to 50,000 years ago -- at least 25,000 years before other known human sites on the continent.

"Topper is the oldest radiocarbon dated site in North America," said Albert Goodyear of the University of South Carolina Institute of Archaeology and Anthropology.

If true, the find represents a revelation for scientists studying how humans migrated to the Americas.

Most scientists believe humans' first ventures to the New World were across a land bridge from present-day Russia to Alaska about 13,000 years ago. The new evidence suggests humans crossed the land bridge much earlier -- possibly during an ice age -- to the Americas and rapidly colonized the two continents.

"It poses some real problems trying to explain how you have people (arriving) in Central Asia almost at the same time as people in the Eastern United States," said Theodore Schurr, anthropology professor at the University of Pennsylvania and a curator at the school's museum.

"You almost have to hope for instantaneous expansion...We're talking about a very rapid movement of people around the globe."

Schurr said that conclusive evidence of stone tools similar to those in the old world and uncontaminated radiocarbon dating samples would be needed to verify the findings as old as 50,000 years ago.

"If dating is confirmed, then it really does have a significant impact on our previous understanding of New World colonization," he said.

Modern humans, or homo sapiens, emerged between 60,000 and 80,000 years ago in Africa. Modern humans quickly fanned out to Australia and Central Asia about 50,000 years ago and arrived in Europe only about 40,000 years ago. It was thought until recently that no humans arrived in the New World until about 13,000 years ago. Archaic hominids like australopithecines and Neanderthals have never been found in the New World.

University of Wisconsin at Madison professor, geologist Thomas Stafford, said that the shocking results would shake scientists' theories about human development, but would lead to new ideas.

"It's a slow process," he said. "You have preconceived ideas...Until someone rocks the boat, you really don't think about something new."

Goodyear plans to publish his work in a peer-reviewed scientific journal next year which is the standard method by which scientists announce their findings

Until research is peer-reviewed, objective experts in the field have not necessarily had an opportunity to evaluate a scientist's methods, or weigh in on the validity of his conclusions.

Archaeologists will meet in October of 2005 for a conference in Columbia, South Carolina, to discuss the earliest inhabitants of North America, including a visit to the Topper Site.

Goodyear has been excavating the Topper dig site along the Savannah River since the 1980s. He recovered artifacts and tools last May that are expected to push the date of colonization back before most of the earliest known settlements on the continent.

Goodyear dug four meters (13 feet) deeper than the soil layer containing the earliest North American people, known as the Clovis culture, and began uncovering a plethora of tools.

Scientists and volunteers at the site in Allendale have unearthed hundreds of implements, many stone chisels and tools likely used to skin hides, butcher meat, carve antlers, wood and possibly ivory. The tools were fashioned from a substance called chert, a flint like stone that is found in the region.

These discoveries could push that date back thousands -- maybe even tens of thousands -- of years and demand a new explanation for how the Americas were first settled.

Since the 1930s, archaeologists have generally believed North America was settled by hunters following large game over a land bridge from Russia during the last major ice age about 13,000 years ago.

"That had been repeated so many times in textbooks and lectures it became part of the common lore," said Dennis Stanford, curator of archeology at the Smithsonian Institution. "People forgot it was only an unproven hypothesis."

Land-bridge assumption challenged
A growing body of evidence is prompting some scientists to challenge that assumption.

A scattering of sites from South America to Wisconsin have detected human presence before 13,000 years ago -- or the first Clovis sites -- since the first groundbreaking discovery of human artifacts in a cave near Clovis, New Mexico, in 1936.

These discoveries have led archaeologists to support alternative theories -- such as settlement by sea -- for the Americas.

Goodyear and his colleagues began their dig at the Topper Site in the early 1980s with a goal of finding out more about the Clovis people, long thought to be the earliest people to settle the Americas.

Goodyear thought that because of the resources available along the Savannah River and the moderate climate it would be a good place to look for even earlier human settlers than the Clovis people.


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http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/11/17/carolina.dig/index.html
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« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2007, 03:06:43 pm »

docyabut
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Psycho, seen that on the news, however what they are showing does not look like man made tools. The stones still like what nature could have made. 
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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 11-17-2004 07:18 PM                       
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The stones still looked like what nature could have made. And where are the
50,000 year old bodies that made these tools?
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rockessence

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   posted 11-17-2004 09:30 PM                       
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Doc,
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« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2007, 03:51:20 pm »








Psycho

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  posted 11-18-2004 09:41 AM                       
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Oh, I don't know, Docyabut, the prof from UW would seem to disagree with you. It would seem that you now have your evidence (irrefutable and from academic sources) that America was settled by ancient travellers. Incidentally, this would also fit inneatly with the fact that Australia and Indonesia were settled around the same time (40,000 b.c. according to some estimates).
The lower they dig, the older the evidence they find, right?

Evidence of an advanced sea-faring race that was sailing at a time when humanity was still supposed to be living out of the caves, in other words, Atlantis, or something very much like it.
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« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2007, 03:52:46 pm »

docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 11-18-2004 05:06 PM                       
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Not everybody agrees
He has a very old geologic formation, but I can't agree with his interpretation of those stones being man-made," said Michael Collins of the Texas Archeological Research Lab at the University of Texas at Austin. Collins disputes that the stone shards at the site show signs of human manipulation.
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« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2007, 06:43:11 pm »








Psycho

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  posted 11-18-2004 09:41 AM                       
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Oh, I don't know, Docyabut, the prof from UW would seem to disagree with you. It would seem that you now have your evidence (irrefutable and from academic sources) that America was settled by ancient travellers. Incidentally, this would also fit inneatly with the fact that Australia and Indonesia were settled around the same time (40,000 b.c. according to some estimates).

The lower they dig, the older the evidence they find, right?

Evidence of an advanced sea-faring race that was sailing at a time when humanity was still supposed to be living out of the caves, in other words, Atlantis, or something very much like it.
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